Guild Wars 2

I’ll keep it simple: This expansion will cost me a minimum of $60, because I will need to buy a new slot for the Revenant. I would not buy the expansion without at least trying the new profession, and I’m not willing to delete a character.

So, the question is: Is $60 reasonable for the expansion (w/ a slot) or not? From what we’ve been shown, it isn’t worth it to me. If the price were $50 and it included a slot, it would probably be worth it to me. I have 15 characters at the moment, many with purchased armor skins, bag slots, makeovers, etc… so it’s not like I never spend money in the gem store.

I’m considering leaving ESO and coming back to GW2 full-time after a long break. Yes, $10 really is the break-point on this. I will wait to see what happens. If they drop the price or throw in a slot I’m probably in. It’s not that they owe it to me, but I don’t owe A-net either.

This expansion will cost me a minimum of $60, because I would only buy it if I got to try the Revenant without deleting a character. $60 is too much, but $50 with a slot included would be (just barely) enough to get me off the fence. Incidentally, the Ultimate Edition with 2 slots (instead of 1) would probably get me to jump up to that level.

Basically, the expansion is overpriced by a factor of 1 character slot.

Sytherek.7689:

Most casual players haven’t even used the four character slots given by the base game.
Really.
Not everyone, or most, are altaholics.

Not everyone (me included) wants to create a revenant.
People like my wife will delete an underplayed character to create a revenant.

ANet should give veterans 800 or 1600 gems (with any edition) as a “thank you” for veterans, letting us decide what we want. Everyone is different.

Agreed. It would be better to include an 800-gem bonus so that players could pick up the slot, if needed, or something else they’d rather have. This would certainly solve the marketing fiasco at no real cost to A-Net. They’d retain a lot more of their current customers, that’s for sure.

If they simply added an extra slot to each package (for a limited time, naturally) almost everyone would open their wallets. I would immediately purchase the Ultimate Edition (with 2 slots). Others would buy the Basic, with 1 slot. This would be the easiest, fastest, smartest, and ultimately the most profitable move A-Net could make.

As it is, I’ll be waiting… and annoyed that they chose to release a new profession w/o recognizing the obvious logic of providing a slot to play it with. I’m one of those ‘whales’ who has spent several hundred dollars on gems. It’s not the money for me, it’s the principle. I have friends who play that cannot afford the extra $10 for a slot, and don’t want to delete a character to try the Revenant.

This is a basic Marketing 101 final exam failure.

Paid damage control, sponsored by A-net.

Harny.6012:

Why do you people feel like ascended is mandatory for all your characters?

Get trinkets and weapons, they are easier and much cheaper to get.
Wouldnt the difference between character fully geared in ascended, and character only not having ascended armor, be much less then 10% in result?
Are we talking about 3-5% difference in stats being mandatory right now, or are my thoughts on this wrong?

It’s the difference between winning and losing fights in WvW, I can tell you that. You need every advantage.

Entitled? Yes, I’m entitled to know what I’m buying before I pay for it. A minimal (?)expansion at a full-game price w/o so much as a character slot thrown in?

I’m entitled to go play other games, whose publishers show me what I’m getting to justify their pricing.

OK, that decision, coupled with the lack of a slot for my new Revenant character just did it for me. I have 15 (yes,15) lv 80 toons. The way they have everything gated, I can never hope to get them all into 100% ascended, which is now mandatory. Clearly, I’ve already spent way too much (money and time) on this game.

And they won’t even give us a free character slot w/ a pre-purchase?! Fortunately I have many other games I enjoy playing…

WhiteCrow.5310:

You should watch this before making a decision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9gVQB8gss

Wow, that was a really informative and uplifting video. It explains everything in easy to understand terms, and it’s also quite entertaining. Excellent!

WhiteCrow.5310:

This is the only video you need to see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9gVQB8gss

OMG. I nearly died laughing. That’s the best HoT FAQ there could possibly ever be. I’m still gasping for breath and trying not to pee myself from laughing so hard.

Thanks so much for the comic relief!

ilMasa.2546:

just found this on the tube enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BC9LC6JLS_I

LOL! That video nails it!

All A-net needs to do to reverse all this negativity is to make a statement similar to:

“We really value our loyal veteran players. As an extra bonus, all current GW2 players who pre-purchase any of the Heart of Thorns packages before [insert date here] will get an additional character slot for free.”

The whining would die down, and the wallets would come out (and I definitely include myself in that!).

If A-Net wanted to instantly reverse all this negative perception, they could simply say….

“We really value our loyal veteran players. As an extra bonus, all current GW2 players who pre-purchase any of the Heart of Thorns packages before [insert date here] will get an additional character slot for free.”

End of controversy, and watch the wallets come flying out!

Dear A-net: Please consider the following as a really smart damage-control/marketing strategy:

“We really value our loyal veteran players. As an extra bonus, all current GW2 players who pre-purchase any of the Heart of Thorns packages before [insert date here] will get an additional character slot for free.”

This would instantly ninja-flip the unfolding marketing fiasco, and result in a rather quick flood of cash into A-Nets coffers. It would be smart, and not at all hard to do. I’d be on it in a heartbeat instead of complaining on these forums.

lujate.5432:

So let me get this straight. For $50 a new player gets GW2 with five character slots and HoT. For the same $50 i get just HoT.

How does ANet expect us to not be furious about this?

BEST. POST. EVER. +1 million!

I’ll pay $50 if it includes a character slot. If they add a 2nd slot to the Ultimate Edition, I’ll buy that instead.

If not, I’ll just keep playing the base game until they put HoT on sale (probably with a free slot). A-Net can easily earn my business. I need to feel like they are not trying to manipulate me into spending extra on something (a slot) that obviously should be included. I mean, who would buy HoT and not try out the Revenant?

I know a few people with marketing degrees if A-net needs any help with the basics, like customer perception. Seriously, what the feline?

The whole point for me is that all 14 of my lvl 80 toons have been able to switch to any trait/skill combo I want, on a whim, any time. I worked to get them all to that point. I would never have bought the additional slots if I hadn’t had that ability. I don’t like having to re-earn it on most of my toons.

Oh, but they have given us something to do. We get to run around PvE doing hero challenges on all our alts so that the traits and skills the alts have already unlocked don’t get taken away. What could be more fulfilling than that?

WvW players like me have been focusing on WvW for a looooooong time. The new system was announced only recently. Without a crystal ball, none of us could have known what A-net would do. The’choice’ was not ours to make. If it were, traits would be unlockable in WvW (just as they have been).

The skill challenges all get reset to ‘not done’ and everyone redoes them. It doesn’t matter how players earned their unlocks, since all players earned them fairly. The new system changes how traits are unlocked for everyone. Since there’s now only one way to unlock skills and traits, everyone should start in the same position.

It’s more like a guy paid for a 5 course dinner for 14 (characters) and then gets told he’ll need to do dishes for hours before he can get what he paid for. It’s like we’re playing golf, and PvE players start with a 10 stroke handicap, for no reason. It’s amazing how different things seem when you’re the one who loses what you’ve worked for.

I seems PvE players only think the system is fair when they’re on the winning end. The moment anyone suggests that PvE players lose anything they get very testy. Hypocrisy seems very contagious.

I have every single skill and trait unlocked on 14 toons. If I have to redo all my work on them, others can do the same on their toons. I payed for extra character slots, put in the work to level and unlock, and yes, I’ll be glad to redo it if everyone else also does. There is no reason why PvE players deserve special treatment. Since you’d be redoing the skill challenges, you could re-earn your map completion at the same time. Resetting all progress would mean that everyone is treated the same. And, yes, that’s what I’m asking for. It’s pretty simple.

I have 13 level 80 alts. They all have to do hero challenges to get their traits and skills back. Surely everyone should be in the same boat.

I’ve floated both of those ideas myself, only to be trolled by PvE players with a million reasons why they would never work. Everyone keeps arguing that getting the hero challenges will be no big deal for us WvW players, so why wouldn’t that be true for everyone? Let’s have a level playing field. No one can disagree with a level playing field, right?

So then you would be in agreement with the proposal, I’m guessing… Since it would be no big deal.

Dadnir.5038:

Why complaint while doing every skill challenge take you maybe 1 hour to complete them all? (well let’s say 2hour with travel time)

This would be true if you had them mapped already. Those without much map completion will have to search for the hero challenges, so they will take longer.

With all the controversy and arguments over the new system for earning earning traits and skills through hero challenges, I have a proposal:

Reset all traits and skills for every character in the game to zero when HoT releases.

That will eliminate the perceived unfairness in allowing PvE players to keep their progress, while denying it to players who leveled their characters in WvW, dungeons or fractals (or some other way). Reset everyone’s number of hero challenges to zero, and teleport every character to their starting city. Those with map completion will easily find the challenges, so they still have a leg up. Those without map completion will have to explore more, but at least it’s the same for everyone.

I anticipate that some fellow players would think this solution is somehow unfair, but I think it would be ideal. It’s actually the only fair way to handle it.

Hyperbolic? No, not at all. I’ve decided that I I totally agree with you. I need to do my ABC’s again on all my characters. Besides, reciting your ABC’s for hours on end is just plain fun. I’m really glad you’ve shown me how wrong I was to think that progress already earned in WvW should count for anything. I mean, it’s not nearly as valid a method of earning progress as reciting your ABC’s ad infinitum. In fact, I think they should make Barney a world boss. Wouldn’t that be cool?!

If we just do enough hero challenges on all our characters we’ll all finally see their true value and learn to love them. Communing with places of power and ingesting random food and drink just can’t be matched by any other gaming experience. I know the challenge of doing those things will make me feel like a hero who’s really earned the right to get my skills and traits back. Silly me, I deserve to have my progress reset for dinking around in WvW instead of PvE, where the real challenge is!

I can’t wait to have more places to stand around and show off the latest armor I purchased with real money from the gem store. Cuz that makes me more speshul.

Why would anyone want to play WvW when PvE is so much more fun? I mean, combat against other players pales in comparison to a good old hero challenge! I can’t believe I ever thought WvW was fun. I think WvW should just be another PvE map. I just hope the zergs are big enough to distract the mobs while I commune with some places of power. There’s just nothing better than that.

I’m really excited about having my progress reset on all my toons so I can relive the glory of my old hero challenge days. Maybe there will be even more places of power to commune with, and random foods and drinks to consume to prove that my character has the skill to become even more powerful! And, as a special bonus they are even turning WvW into another PvE experience. It’s like kindergarten all over again!(Remember kindergarten, when everything was fresh and exciting!) I hope they charge a lot for this, to keep the people who don’t truly appreciate a good hero challenge from spoiling my experience with their negativity!

Well, no one likes to have their progress stripped away to be replaced with pointless grinding to ‘earn’ it back. I can’t wait to commune with some more places of power and consume some more random foods and drinks. That’s something to get hyped about! I can hardly contain my quivering anticipation.

Apparently they are banking on the expansion drawing in new players and more casual PvE-ers who have left the game. Veteran players who have been here since pre-launch, especially those with many alts, are getting a cucumber sandwich.

I guess it’s time to take a break from having fun ‘playing the way I want’ and go do lots of repetitive grinding on 13 of my level 80 toons. Funny, I seem to remember A-net marketing this game as the only MMO that didn’t require grinding. So much for that.

Just look at the daily achievements. They can be earned equally in 3 categories: PvP, PvE and WvW. This strongly implies that these are the three co-equal branches of GW2 gameplay. Of course, it is natural for PvE players to think that their preferred mode is ‘the one that matters’ or the ‘one that the others are based on’. That doesn’t mean that they are correct.

phys.7689:

is it good for the game as a whole, if there is no incentive for doing different facets of the game?

Exactly the point! Skill progression should be possible in every valid game mode. Your character should be able to unlock basic traits and skills via fractals, dungeons, WvW, etc.

Under the new system all traits and skills (beyond the ones granted by leveling) are locked behind PvE content. The only people who can stay in just 1 game mode and unlock everything are open-world PvE players.

lordkrall.7241

You mean a bit like having to do WvW for world completion?

Not at all. The only reason for world completion is to gain the ability to craft a legendary weapon. One item. Not better than an ascended weapon, just with a ‘cooler skin’. If any of your actual traits and skills for your character had been locked behind WvW objectives I’d have sympathy for your point.

I’m not sure which statement by A-net you are referring to regarding their reason for creating WvW. Please direct us to the official source of your many statements about A-net’s design intentions. Clearly, they meant for a character to be able to level up and reach full-unlocks in standalone WvW, because that’s exactly what I’ve done within the system they created. I’m just asking to keep the progress I’ve made.

I’ll just say that if PvE players had to go into WvW and clear every sentry point (or capture every camp, or every tower, or every keep, or SMC 65 times) we’d hear a lot of whining. I’m sure you’d be able to do it, but you’d resent the requirement.

I’ve done my map completion on 1 character. My other 13 lv. 80’s have decreasing amounts of world completion, because there’s no way I’m doing that 13 more times. Many of my characters have never been on the majority of PvE maps, just as many PvE players haven’t been inside every structure in WvW. Please stop implying that PvE is ‘the important part’ of the game. It’s one part. Even as it is now, PvE already dispenses much more karma, gold, loot and mats per hour of play. Why should PvE also be the sole source of trait unlocks?

That isn’t the point. How often do you wear every single piece of clothing you own? The point is, I’ve earned the ability to try any trait/skill combo I want to on 14 different lv. 80 toons (with character slots paid for by spending actual money, I should add) at any time. On a given day, I might want to spice my usual WvW up with a fractal or dungeon, and I can retool for that as I see fit.

Again (and again, and again) why do I need to keep justifying my desire to keep what I’ve already earned, while PvE-only players will likely have more unlocked under the new system than they have now by virtue of having done 465 ‘skill points’?

And this is yet another reason not to give a further advantage to PvE players who have racked up silly ‘skill challenges’ to ‘earn’ the advantage.

lordkrall.7241:

Why is that suddenly such an issue when it have basically been more or less the same since release.

Someone that have played PvE can come into WvW with full exotic/ascended gear while those that only play WvW would spend insane amount of time in WvW or do PvE in order to unlock it.

Not true for me at all. I have had no problem gearing all 14 of my level 80’s in full exotic/ascended, while spending minimal (though not zero) time in PvE. I have full map completion on only 1 character for a reason. PvE bores me to tears, and I’ve “been there, done that”. Why is it that people seem to think WvW players need to keep justifying their preference?

My problem is with the loss of already-earned progress. Any requirements for unlocking new progression should apply to all equally, and A-net can and should determine those requirements. I do not want special treatment for any player, regardless of how they got their character to the fully-unlocked state. I’d also prefer that no one be able come into WvW with all elite skills already unlocked through PvE, while WvW players need to spend many hours in PvE for the same privilege.

As it now stands, I can try out any build I want on any of my 14 level 80 characters because I have done the necessary things to unlock all traits and skills. If I lose traits and skills I have already unlocked simply because I chose not to do boring ‘skill challenges’ 14 times over I will be unhappy. I want to be able to change builds whenever I feel like it to suit whatever content I feel like playing.

As a hypothetical, lets imagine 6 different players, each with 2 characters at lv. 80 with all currently available traits and skills unlocked. One character has full world completion, while the other is an alt. Each has made their alt, also with everything unlocked (by whatever legitimate method) in order to play almost exclusively in one type of content:

Player A loves PvE, and has full map completion on the alt
Player B loves Dungeons, and has completed every path in every dungeon many times
Player C loves jumping puzzles and fractals and has completed all
Player D loves sPvP, and is very highly ranked
Player E loves WvW, and is a commander with a high WvW rank
Player F used tomes and scrolls to get to lv 80 very recently, and has done nothing else but ‘skill challenges’

All of these players want to branch out into other content with their alts. Players A and F will get a huge boost due to the ‘skill challenges’ (ROFL) they have completed, while the rest are greatly disadvantaged and will have to re-earn traits they had legitimately acquired. Player F in particular deserves to be disadvantaged, having invested very little. How is this system fair, or in any way desirable?

MaXi.3642:

Daddar.5971:

2) All traits beyond base (i.e. elite specializations) are only unlocked via skill points earned in HoT zones.

so if we will get new content like 10x, we will have 11 different currencies to unlock specs and skills? not very good design…

Currencies? When was the unlocking of traits ever linked to currencies (other than gold, which is a mistake)?

There’s no reason it can’t be a 1-time grandfathering method. It doesn’t have to be ongoing, and they can implement it without announcing it ahead of time. Even so, I’d be fine with them giving it to all level 80s. If the only thing a player has done is hang around logged in to an instance, what will they have gained? As for altaholics (like me), we’ve paid for the slots and done the work to level characters and unlock traits, so what’s your point?

The core traits are still the core traits. There is no reason they have to create a system where some characters who have already earned them will lose them, while others, with far fewer hours in-game, can come out ahead. Tying character progression to ‘skill points’ is an arbitrary decision. The could have made it jumping puzzles, keg brawl wins, personal story progression, crafting level, world bosses killed or achievement points earned. None of those are good ideas, either.

How’s this for a proposal:

1) Each existing lv. 80 character gets trait unlocks based on hours played on that character, regardless of game mode, up to a cap of all base-traits unlocked.

2) All traits beyond base (i.e. elite specializations) are only unlocked via skill points earned in HoT zones.

That puts everyone who has put a lot of time into different game modes on an equal footing. It respects A-net’s stated ‘play the way you want’ philosophy and the spirit of fairness. Sure, someone who’s stood around in Lion’s Arch for hours gets credit for it, but the rest of us have gotten loot from actually playing, so that’s our reward. Any toon leveled with tomes and scrolls will lose out a little, but since no time was spent playing the character it’s not really unfair.

All of these answers are the equivalent of saying “you don’t need your legendary gear to play; you can still play with exotic gear while you slog through hours of boring content on your 14 characters to earn back the legendary equipment you already had.”