Guild Wars 2

Please add claws to TA Heavy Armor, the gloves are just not pleasing to look at.

Please add Post Count to the forums.

Noobie.1073:

Daecollo.9578:

Yeah, lowing my HPS to 263 forever is mean. especially when they use it on Adrenal Health and it ticks its third second and heals significantly less.

I think he’s saying that realistically, you wouldn’t have poison on you all the time. and if you do have poison on you all the time, l2P cause that’s a personal problem and not a class mechanic problem. Do you have a LV. 80 ranger? If you do, play it more often so you can see first hand if what you are saying is true. If you don’t, stop basing your arguments over a non-existent build because no one build will give you all of what you’re talking about. Simply listing our skills and passive abilities does not help your case.

As I said before, others have driven the topic to that point. Argue with them if you want I’m arguing about the insane Hp/S Troll Unguent and Spirit of Nature bring.

Add -20% Stance Duration to Stance Mastery please.

apt.9184:

Scoobaniec.9561:

apt.9184:

Our mace burst skill is pretty much an insta cast ppl have to guess when to dodge.

So does ele burst, invisible backstab, invis mes turning ya into moa and so on..

U do realize that mace in real world are fast weapons right?
I keep wondering why everyone wants to nerg mace/signet yet no1 complains about hb..

So if we nerf mace back to 2sec (and killing it as hammer will be better automatically) ppl won’t be able to land hb making that build friendly to enemies and their mistakes decreasing the dps and leaving us with a crap called hb that has no real uses outside of rez pressure as in current state mace is just a band-fix like omno pies was to sustain just to make a single ability work like it should working without any cc.

Nerf healing signet? Ok.. So whats the point of using signet if automatically both surge and mending become better?

Touch a kitten and its gonna smell.

I will admit that mace/shield+gs has low skill cap and some changed are needed but not in mace or signet but a gs.

“Warriors are fast they keep running away if they want to” – what stuff does that? A mace or gs?

“Warriors dealing load of dmg while still being tanky” – I dindt know that mace hits like a truck with one skill standing like a noob for 3,5sec.

“Warriors have load of blocks” – counterblow is useless against ranged classes as 1 hit and done, but i actually see the shield as a mini invul and bc noobs tend to smash keyboard all they see is block block.

“Warriors healing like an eles pre nerf” – i think anyone saying that is new to the game. IF u can’t do at least 500dmg/sec they don’t complain that u went bunker way and can’t kill a kitten

And for the end:

“Warriors using mace/shield has load of stuns” And all of them has 130 range olny, so what do u doing next to warrior shooting arrows in himor gods know what else, standing afk?

If someone looking to nerf that build he has to look in hb on 6cd that allows us to deal damage as outside of that combo war has no damage and for few seconds vulnerable to attacks once skull crack was used. I noticed that once i stun someone and they stunbreak they don’t fight back but starts to run away while my cd getting up to repeat the combo.

lol mace needs nerf its so forgiving greatsword has counter able skills mace does not. Btw when ele switch’s to air thats when you need to start dodging or blocking. Mesmer moa is strong but if they don’t have clones up to shatter right away there is no point you can just run with 5. Invis back stab well right now there is not to much of counter to stealth but fast reaction time can save your self from it. And it really there is no counter if they jump you. But, playing the game more maybe even rolling a thief for a little will teach you how to counter them. In a 1v1 situation if they are using a perma stealth build get in there bp and wait or if there using caeds build they usually only hs once so count to 3 and dodge or block (depending on distance deduct seconds or millseconds). Btw also see people use hammer mace shield which is just as cheesy so you can’t say its gs that makes it OP. Buffs to zerk stance and healing signet are main reason to that since it gives such a huge amount of time to land your stuns. Its so kitten forgiving. Greatsword has not changed what so ever, but mace has and that’s why the main culprits are the 3 sec stun zerk stance and healing signet.

The only thing making the warrior good. We need more stuff like this

Bredin.5368:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

Natural Healing = 133 hp/s (Also 125 more for pet, far more then Adrenal Health.)
Troll Unguent = 342.4 hp/s (685 if you count pet.)
Signet of the Wild = 62 hp/s. (125+187 if you count the pet.)
Spirit of Nature = 480 hp/s. (1440 if you count the pet, and the spirit itself since it heals allies.)

That is 2570 Hp/s! Not Including Regeneration, which heals both the ranger and his pet.

1017 HP/s on just the ranger alone. With no healing power. No boons added

So let me teach you math and about ranger builds outside of sPvP. The most commonly used sources of healing for rangers are TU and SoW and regen. Assuming you are running a specific build that allows perma regen, here is how you would calculate healing/second for a ranger with 0 healing power

Perma regen=125/s
SoW=62/s
TU=850/sec for 10 seconds, 0 for 15 seconds—this is based on 10 second duration and 25 second cool down.

This implies that 40% of the time (10/25) TU is effective, and 60% of the time (15/25) it is not. While it is effective, a ranger heals for 1037 (125+62+850)hp/second. While it is not effective (most of the time), a ranger heals for 187 (125+62)hp/second. To calculate the ‘average’ healing during a 25 second period you multiply .4 × 1038 and add that to .6 × 187, which gives you 527 hp/second.

This number can be significantly boosted with healing power, but you must remember that most of the time, the effective healing is less than HALF of the average healing per second. Moreover, having perma regen sacrifices damage and most rangers don’t have that, so to calculate an accurate healing/second rate you’d need to assume less than 100% uptime for regen (more like 30% or even less for many builds).

So, for most of the time, a ranger will be healing for less than 200/second unless they spec healing power. That number increases ONLY if they cast an ability with a cooldown and they cast shout to proc a regen.

The addition of all the ‘people’ or units receiving the healing is, quite frankly, stupid. To do that, you’d need to calculate a healing/per second/per person(unit), but that would become less meaningful, since it will not as easily translate into survivability (eg healing a 5 people for 125 points is less meaningful than healing 1 person 725).

The problem is that rangers who spec for healing/survivability give up so much in direct damage they can’t kill effectively unless they go with a specific build (condition-regen). This does not seem to be the case for other classes such as warriors.

So your saying a 0/10/30/30/0 Warrior with Healing Power is going to hurt anyone with his 25 stacks of bleeds and constantly having to pick up banners and move around?

Yeah I guess those 337 power attacks hurt.

jcbroe.4329:

I would agree with you, except Berserker’s Power/Heightened Focus were moved to Grandmaster traits.

They used to be 10 traits, now they are 30 traits.

This cut our damage significantly.

But you still do more damage than a ranger does. I think I mentioned going x/x/20/30/x in a previous post. So you can either put that 20 towards the Power line and pick up the greatsword trait with +10% damage, you can put it towards getting might on crit on the greatsword with a mace/shield and run unsuspecting foe for a high crit chance coming off of skull crack, or you could go with 20 in tactics (for whatever reason) and get Destruction of the Empowered or something.

Personally, I’d go with 0/20/20/30/0, and as long as you build in some crit damage on the amulet/runes, then you’d have a much higher damage output than a ranger and its pet, while having the same amount of health regained per second, but with less access to boons and dodges for survival.

Um… Are you seriously considering a Warrior without at least 0/0/0/0/15?

We NEED Our discipline line to deal damage. Our burst damage is trash without Burst Mastery.

You need 30 in discipline to have that 7 second recast high damage STUN you cry about so much. Seeing as you have so much protection/evades it shouldn’t matter. Rangers are one of the hardest classes in the game to lock down, under thief.

Things that prevent Cleansing Ire.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

jcbroe.4329:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

Let me reiterate myself:

Okay, now I have to ask, how are you getting all of these things in one build.

List:
-Troll Unguent
-Elite Spirit
-High Protection Uptime
-High Vigor uptime
-High Amount of Evades
-Stealth
-Empathic Bond
-Evasive Purity
-Natural Healing
-Signet of the Wild
-Signet of the Beastmaster

Because we’re not going to have a theorycraft conversation about things that aren’t actually plausible. If this build exists, we’ll discuss it from there.

You can’t just like you can’t have everything for Warrior in one build. The discussion isn’t about this stuff. Its about Troll Unguent and SoN. I see you have successfully tried to move away from that however lets stick to the topic, Hmm?

You can however, have a lot of that at once without giving up much

I’m asking, because earlier, I mentioned warriors healing being equal to rangers, and balanced, while the ranger is being more defensive, the warrior is more offensive, and I said it was a fair tradeoff.

However, throughout this entire thread, you have said that the ranger has access to every single one of these things on top of troll unguent, which isn’t true. So what build are we going with?

Because on a build without 30 in nature magic, and the proper runes and traits, vigor and protection uptime are low. And then you need 30 in Wilderness for condi removal. And then 30 in Marksmanship for activating SoTW to do anything. And then 30 in Beastmastery for more healing. And then another set of runes and being able to equip the traits needed in every slot to get everything that has been mentioned that happens at once during this ranger build that is so strong.

So I’m asking, which is it, is it this crazy impossible build, or is it that you actually can’t get all of those things in one build? Because in one build, if you invest, you can maybe get high healing, regen uptime, evades/dodges, and a little protection every once in awhile. And in that plausible and existing build, the warrior has a equally fair amount of survival options, but is more offensive and capable of a higher damage output.

So, is the healing per second balanced? When compared to other classes, yes. Rangers are a more defensive variant, while Warriors are more offensive, and Eles/Engis fall somewhere on the inbetween spectrum, being more offensive than rangers but not equaling the damage output, while also being slightly more defensive than the warrior.

So again, my answer is yes, it is balanced.

I would agree with you, except Berserker’s Power/Heightened Focus were moved to Grandmaster traits.

They used to be 10 traits, now they are 30 traits.

This cut our damage and hybrid builds significantly, weakening us greatly.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

healing signet is always up; troll has a 40 percent up time
warr has blocks invulns and better cond removal, whats your point?

Which makes it worse against things like poison. Which we can’t simply dodge to remove.

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability. Warrior has worse Condition Removal then Rangers do actually, ours has a chance to be effected by the following.

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Yours is passive, it removes conditions every 10 seconds regardless of situation or position, you could be dodging like a monkey and it still removes them.

you say ‘yours’ as if i dont have a warrior? or maybe i read it wrong

ranger GS does piddly damage compared to warr GS, its a defensive weapon, a better comparison would be ranger GS vs warr mace+shield
… and its at the end of the chain

-more than that, warr is heavy armour; thats free defense-

oh right… yeh… gotta love those ranger cleanses, ‘hey pet; why are you limping? oh… that burn i shoved down your throat killed you?’… damage kitten yourself (the only two reliable cleanses rangers have imo is healing spring – which is a heal… so… eh – and evasive purity – which only cleanses two afflictions… one of which you could get off of you in the same amount of time it takes to dodge)

… oh and bear… but that relies on the bear being alive and responsive (and bears suck)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stamina
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Shake_It_Off!%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing – really only viable in wvw…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Soldier
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Lyssa
are both considerably more viable on warr than ranger

…also not reliable removal… but i like it anyway – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

- and why the hell would anyone let a spirit of nature renewal survive whilst fighting the ranger? thats just stupid.

warr stun lock is all time that healing signet is ticking away

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

… i was listing reliable ways to cleanse conditions (of which ranger has two – bear doesnt count… bear sucks)

transfer =/= cleanse
transfer = kitten your dps

how about runes of lyssa, 10 in discipline for signet recharge, 10 in defense for stance duration, dogged march or shield master
healing sig/stamina sig/serker stance/WHATEVER/signet of rage
mace+shield/GS (which seems very popular atm?)

add another 20 to defense and you get heal/3sec and cleansing ire

Ok now how do you deal damage to people? Warrior is mostly power damage focused. We don’t have poison to reduce HoT.

Also, that is nice against conditions, however what does that do against Power Damage?

jcbroe.4329:

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

Let me reiterate myself:

Okay, now I have to ask, how are you getting all of these things in one build.

List:
-Troll Unguent
-Elite Spirit
-High Protection Uptime
-High Vigor uptime
-High Amount of Evades
-Stealth
-Empathic Bond
-Evasive Purity
-Natural Healing
-Signet of the Wild
-Signet of the Beastmaster

Because we’re not going to have a theorycraft conversation about things that aren’t actually plausible. If this build exists, we’ll discuss it from there.

You can’t just like you can’t have everything for Warrior in one build. The discussion isn’t about this stuff. Its about Troll Unguent and SoN. I see you have successfully tried to move away from that however lets stick to the topic, Hmm?

You can however, have a lot of that at once without giving up much

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

healing signet is always up; troll has a 40 percent up time
warr has blocks invulns and better cond removal, whats your point?

Which makes it worse against things like poison. Which we can’t simply dodge to remove.

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability. Warrior has worse Condition Removal then Rangers do actually, ours has a chance to be effected by the following.

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Yours is passive, it removes conditions every 10 seconds regardless of situation or position, you could be dodging like a monkey and it still removes them.

you say ‘yours’ as if i dont have a warrior? or maybe i read it wrong

ranger GS does piddly damage compared to warr GS, its a defensive weapon, a better comparison would be ranger GS vs warr mace+shield
… and its at the end of the chain

-more than that, warr is heavy armour; thats free defense-

oh right… yeh… gotta love those ranger cleanses, ‘hey pet; why are you limping? oh… that burn i shoved down your throat killed you?’… damage kitten yourself (the only two reliable cleanses rangers have imo is healing spring – which is a heal… so… eh – and evasive purity – which only cleanses two afflictions… one of which you could get off of you in the same amount of time it takes to dodge)

… oh and bear… but that relies on the bear being alive and responsive (and bears suck)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Stamina
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Shake_It_Off!%22
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Ire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing – really only viable in wvw…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Soldier
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Lyssa
are both considerably more viable on warr than ranger

…also not reliable removal… but i like it anyway – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March

- and why the hell would anyone let a spirit of nature renewal survive whilst fighting the ranger? thats just stupid.

warr stun lock is all time that healing signet is ticking away

Gotta love this 0/0/40/40/0 Builds with 2 sets of armor and rune sets.

This is why Troll heals for 684.8 hp/s, to help you and your pet survive.

Fjandi.2516:

Q.Q

When you quote something, do it logically so I know what your talking about, it looks like you quoted some things and QQed. Does not make sense.

Leuca.5732:

Daecollo.9578:

Your speaking in opposites.

I have to worry about poison being on me ALL the time, meanwhile for you I can get poison off and keep it off in the small time frame to get the full effect, rather then always worry about it.

Exactly. Poison has to be on you ALL the time to truly negate your healing significantly.

Yeah, lowing my HPS to 263 forever is mean. especially when they use it on Adrenal Health and it ticks its third second and heals significantly less.

Leuca.5732:

Daecollo.9578:

On my Necromancer, I simply wait for the buff to go away then use all my conditions at once and laugh.

Dogged March does not work against all conditions, like the ones your complaining about above.

On my Necromancer, I simply wait for Empathic Bond to proc and then use all my conditions at once and laugh.

Ikr? <3 Necromancer.

Leuca.5732:

Daecollo.9578:

Which makes it worse against things like poison. Which we can’t simply dodge to remove.

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability. Warrior has worse Condition Removal then Rangers do actually, ours has a chance to be effected by the following.

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Yours is passive, it removes conditions every 10 seconds regardless of situation or position, you could be dodging like a monkey and it still removes them.

No, it actually means Healing Signet is LESS vulnerable to poison than Troll Unguent, because you don’t have to worry about timing your condition removal with activation of your skill; you simply have to get rid of poison as much as possible, which isn’t really that difficult, especially with Berserker Stance and Cleansing Ire. The fact that Empathic Bond transfers conditions to the pet means that the damage is merely being diverted; it is not being negated like with other forms of condition removal. In this case the damage is going to your pet, meaning that’s ANOTHER factor you’ve failed to account for in your healing calculations. If your pet takes poison, it’s having your healing on it reduced, giving it a higher chance to die in combat if you don’t have at least 15 Beastmastery to reduce the swap cd to 15, and even then it’s shaky in a big group fight. If your pet goes down, Empathic bond is gone until you swap, only your pet swap recharge is then increased to 60/48 seconds when traited respectively.

Signet of the Wild is 8 seconds of Stability and a bit more damage, not Invulnerability. It must also be traited at 30 Marksmanship to get the effect on more than just your pet, decreasing your ability to spec into toughness/healing power.

Please don’t bring up the Ranger’s Greatsword; its damage is pathetic and the evade is tied to actually landing your attacks, meaning it’s vulnerable to the same things as Cleansing Ire, only more so because you need to land two attacks to get the evasion.

Your speaking in opposites.

I have to worry about poison being on me ALL the time, meanwhile for you I can get poison off and keep it off in the small time frame to get the full effect, rather then always worry about it.

As a ranger I can simply cure it and stealth, that is 3 out of the 10 seconds I don’t have to worry about being poisoned again. Along with evades and other things you have your work cut out for you.

Atherakhia.4086:

Daecollo.9578:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

healing signet is always up; troll has a 40 percent up time
warr has blocks invulns and better cond removal, whats your point?

Which makes it worse against things like poison. Which we can’t simply dodge to remove.

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability. Warrior has worse Condition Removal then Rangers do actually, ours has a chance to be effected by the following.

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Yours is passive, it removes conditions every 10 seconds regardless of situation or position, you could be dodging like a monkey and it still removes them.

You have dogged march and berserker stance. No one in their right mind is going to think Warriors have trouble against conditions.

On my Necromancer, I simply wait for the buff to go away then use all my conditions at once and laugh.

Dogged March does not work against all conditions, like the ones your complaining about above.

Its not bugged at all, I use it on my thief

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Daecollo.9578:

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

healing signet is always up; troll has a 40 percent up time
warr has blocks invulns and better cond removal, whats your point?

Which makes it worse against things like poison. Which we can’t simply dodge to remove.

Ranger has Traited Signet of the Wild, which is 8 seconds of you and your pet having Invulnerability. Warrior has worse Condition Removal then Rangers do actually, ours has a chance to be effected by the following.

Ranger attacks have evades built right in, the Greatsword’s Autoattack is far superior to Shield Block.

1. Aegis.
2. Blind.
3. Block.
4. Invulnerability.
5. Evade.
6. Miss.

Yours is passive, it removes conditions every 10 seconds regardless of situation or position, you could be dodging like a monkey and it still removes them.

jcbroe.4329:

Just for counter arguments sake:

Warrior: 20 in cleansing ire, 30 in inspired battle standard, full adrenaline, alternating banners for 100% regen uptime.

Healing Signet: 402 hps
Regen: 155 hps (5 people = 775 hps)
Adrenal Health: 390/3 = 130 hps

402 + 155 + 130 = 687 hps, sustainable indefinitely, unless you go out of action long enough to see adrenaline decay.

Seems balanced to me. Warriors have a higher damage potential, and are capable of doing more damage output while traited for survival than rangers. So risk/reward and outputs all factored in, it looks like the 2 classes are equal with each other, 1 having more survival through evades, while the other having a higher total damage output.

Also, the hps from the banners isn’t the only AoE effect granted for your party, which is a nice little bonus.

Still, everything looks pretty in line.

Your not factoring in your pet to damage, and that is all the Warrior healing abilities he has.

If I added the 658 Hp/S healing, and the Spirit of Nature, Signet of the Wild, Regeneration, Natural Healing then the Hp/S is almost twice as much as what a warrior can heal for. This isn’t even including the pet.

Not to mention the Ranger has Stealth/Protection/Spam-Evades.

Natural Healing = 133 hp/s (Also 125 more for pet, far more then Adrenal Health.)
Troll Unguent = 342.4 hp/s (685 if you count pet.)
Signet of the Wild = 62 hp/s. (125+187 if you count the pet.)
Spirit of Nature = 480 hp/s. (1440 if you count the pet, and the spirit itself since it heals allies.)

That is 2570 Hp/s! Not Including Regeneration, which heals both the ranger and his pet.

1017 HP/s on just the ranger alone. With no healing power. No boons added

Leuca.5732:

Daecollo.9578:

But but you can just dodge then use it! You have 50% Endurance Regeneration and high up time of Vigor!

You also get protection and regeneration too!

So if you’re really joking, what is the point of this thread?

I’m not really joking, I’m just saying that Ranger’s have the best healing skills in the game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Why-is-ranger-pet-better-then-Warrior/page/2#post1988258

Anyone remember this?

Leuca.5732:

Daecollo.9578:

Leuca.5732:

Daecollo.9578:

RyuDragnier.9476:

That’s assuming you’re not getting hit hard by conditions, which in most cases if you’ve popped that heal, you’re being hit with conditions and need to outheal the damage.

evilapprentice.6379:

“Just keep poison up”, its almost impossible to do so in this meta because of how much condition cleanse has been prioritized.

The heals need looked at. I will start pulling arguments to this forum.

I remember seeing somewhere that the Warrior’s Healing Signet was vulnerable to poison because it ticked over time. Where is that person right now? Unless this thread is sarcastic and I’m just not getting it over the internet.

Probably whining on the warrior forums and trying to get us nerfed.

Oh, wait..

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/dont-forget-to-nerf-healing-signet/2762722/quote

Daecollo.9578:

Learn to use Poison.

HS is Fine.

You can completely counter Empathic bond by waiting for it to remove a few conditions and then covering your poison with your other conditions. Evasive Purity shouldn’t have even been an example with a 10 second CD and the frequency of poison application.

I’m just waiting for you to tell us you were just kidding.

But but you can just dodge then use it! You have 50% Endurance Regeneration and high up time of Vigor!

You also get protection and regeneration too!

RyuDragnier.9476:

Evasive Purity only drops Poison and Blind. Empathic Bond, as you put down, requires your pet to be alive, but gimps it due to the conditions (and will probably kill it). Both have an ICD of 10 seconds. Within those 10 seconds you can do redo the conditions (depending on class and build) or kill off the pet entirely, which leaves them with only getting rid of poison and blind.

Eurantien.4632:

So… why does it matter that it heals my pet?

Which is why the 658 hp/s heal is very nice! Thank you for awnsering his question

Leuca.5732:

Daecollo.9578:

RyuDragnier.9476:

That’s assuming you’re not getting hit hard by conditions, which in most cases if you’ve popped that heal, you’re being hit with conditions and need to outheal the damage.

evilapprentice.6379:

“Just keep poison up”, its almost impossible to do so in this meta because of how much condition cleanse has been prioritized.

The heals need looked at. I will start pulling arguments to this forum.

I remember seeing somewhere that the Warrior’s Healing Signet was vulnerable to poison because it ticked over time. Where is that person right now? Unless this thread is sarcastic and I’m just not getting it over the internet.

Probably whining on the warrior forums and trying to get us nerfed.

RyuDragnier.9476:

You’re a fool if you think I mean just poison. If you’re popping that due to conditions, then you’ve at least got several stacks of bleed, poison, confusion/torment, and possibly burning on you. You don’t pop it for something as stupid as a single bit of poison.

Many classes have the same problem, however they don’t have nearly as much to passively deal with it like rangers.

Empathic Bond (occurs periodically, requires living pet)
Evasive Purity (upon dodging an attack)

killahmayne.9518:

cbrooksc.9358:

killahmayne.9518:

Also don’t forget to nerf:

Distracting Strikes: Mace/hammer stun/Bulls rush = 1000 stacks of confusion OP!
Endure Pain: Because 4 seconds of invulnerability to damage is too strong on a class with the highest HP and highest Armor
Zerker Stance: Because warrior’s should be allowed to go melee
Kick: Because kicking butt is something a warrior shouldn’t be able to do
Longbow/Mace/Greatsword/Shield/Rifle build: Because warriors can use 5 weapons at once
Hundred Blades: Because sitting there for 3 seconds just isn’t enough
Banners: Perma regen too OP
For Great Justice: Because nobody believes in justice for the warrior
Fear Me: Because fearing a warrior would be too OP, they need to go back to being free kills

And also, warriors should take a 50% damage nerf and don’t forget, nerf the bulls rush>Frenzy>100b combo because that is making a comeback in the meta.

I’m so glad you are being sarcastic.

Might as well since alot of people want us nerfed to nonexistance.

They want free kills.

RyuDragnier.9476:

That’s assuming you’re not getting hit hard by conditions, which in most cases if you’ve popped that heal, you’re being hit with conditions and need to outheal the damage.

evilapprentice.6379:

“Just keep poison up”, its almost impossible to do so in this meta because of how much condition cleanse has been prioritized.

The heals need looked at. I will start pulling arguments to this forum.

Eurantien.4632:

Daecollo.9578:

Troll Unguent 684 Hp/s… Can’t believe this isn’t looked at!

To get 684 Hp/s from Troll that would mean a heal of 1620 a second. To do this you would have to have 6366 healing power. Your calculator is broken.

Looks like I need to teach you math.

You and your pet regenerate health over time.
Health per second: 856 (0.12)?
Duration: 10 s
Recast: 25 seconds.

This is with no healing power

856 × 10 × 2 for healing both you and your pet = 17120
17120 / 25 = 684.8 (685.)

Add in the extra second it takes to cast, and its 658 hp/s.

Boomstin.3460:

Just a worried warrior trying to counter the people complaining about warrior heal signet.

Just a worried ranger trying to counter the people complaining about spirits.

Endure Pain isn’t invulnerability though, it doesn’t stop conditions.

Chokolata.1870:

where did you get this from ?

It heals you and your pet. 1712 hp/s for 10 seconds every 25 seconds.

Troll Unguent 684 Hp/s… Can’t believe this isn’t looked at!

Spirit of Nature heals the ENTIRE party for 480 (That is 2400 hp/s!) It also revives fallen allies and cures conditions and now with reduced cool-down it is one of the best elites in the game!

Along with easy Stealth, lots of protection and many evades and passive condition removal isn’t this a bit too much healing?

Go ahead and nerf our passive and healing skills, however make up for it by giving us what other classes have via traits. You know… stuff like all the other classes have!

Battle Frenzy (Arms or Defense.)
Heals per strike of adrenaline.
125 (0.045 Healing Power)

Evasive Bursts (Discipline.)
Burst skills Evade.
2 s (Evade all attacks.)

Shield Mastery (Defense.)
Gain +90 toughness while using a shield. Shield skills recharge 20% faster. Gain Protection for 3 seconds after using a shield skill.

Thick Skin (Defense.)
Reduces all damage taken by 5% by all sources. (Seriously, its worthless right now, or give us perma-vigor like other classes!)

Spiked Armor
Gain 5 seconds of retaliation and protection when struck by a critical hit. Cannot trigger more than once every 15 seconds.

Healing Surge (Healing Skill.)
Heal yourself and regain all adrenaline. Gain protection based on your current adrenaline level.
Heal: 8820 (1.50)?
Stage 0: Protection: 1 s
Stage 1: Protection: 2 s
Stage 2: Protection: 3 s
Stage 3: Protection: 4 s
Adrenaline: 30

You know what is hilarious? Most classes compare our HEALING Skills to simple traits and CLASS passives.. OMG! MY VIRTUE OF RESOLVE AND SIGNET OF THE WILD DOESN’T HEAL AS MUCH AS HEALING SIGNET MUST BE OP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Battle-Frenzy-New-Trait-Ideas/first#post2780948

Now you can nerf all our healing abilies and cheese OP stuff like berserker’s stance.

Go ahead and nerf our healing skills, however make up for it by giving us what other classes have via traits. You know, like other classes have!

Battle Frenzy (Arms or Defense.)
Heals per strike of adrenaline.
125 (0.045 Healing Power)

Evasive Bursts (Discipline.)
Burst skills Evade.
2 s (Evade all attacks.)

Shield Mastery (Defense.)
Gain +90 toughness while using a shield. Shield skills recharge 20% faster. Gain Protection for 3 seconds after using a shield skill.

Thick Skin (Defense.)
Reduces all damage taken by 5% by all sources. (Seriously, its worthless right now, or give us perma-vigor like other classes!)

Spiked Armor
Gain 5 seconds of retaliation and protection when struck by a critical hit. Cannot trigger more than once every 15 seconds.

Healing Surge (Healing Skill.)
Heal yourself and regain all adrenaline. Gain protection based on your current adrenaline level.
Heal: 8820 (1.50)?
Stage 0: Protection: 1 s
Stage 1: Protection: 2 s
Stage 2: Protection: 3 s
Stage 3: Protection: 4 s
Adrenaline: 30

You know what is hilarious? Most classes compare our HEALING Skills to simple traits and CLASS passives.. OMG! MY VIRTUE OF RESOLVE DOESN’T HEAL AS MUCH AS HEALING SIGNET MUST BE OP.

We give up all our burst healing for passive healing, however many don’t even know how to use poison or anything to counter it, just make a post on the forums…

Add a trait like this like the other classes have, and I will agree its OP. However since we don’t have such a trait that heals us significantly like the other classes do, please stop talking. We don’t even evades or protection.

Evade when using a Burst

Gain Protection after you use a shield skill

Gain Protection when you use a healing skill.

Gain Protection after you dodge

Gain Protection and Retaliation when Struck with a Critical Hit!

Warriors have almost no interesting traits, we have nothing cool-nore special. Our weapon skills don’t have boons/conditions like poison added to them, we are GENERIC. Our best traits add +% damage! GET REAL.

Give us the tools other classes have and I will show you the meaning of pain.

This game isn’t balanced around 1v1.

Relentliss.2170:

Aeolus.3615:

Daecollo.9578:

Relentliss.2170:

Daecollo.9578:

Relentliss.2170:

Daecollo.9578:

Relentliss.2170:

Daecollo.9578:

Relentliss.2170:

foofad.5162:

Guardians aren’t in the worst spot ever, but they are definitely hurting.

I reckon we are probably in the bottom 3 classes if not the worst class atm. We used to be in the Top 3. The new changes that lead to massive conditions are a direct counter to us in PVP.

Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight. Mesmers and Eles seem to be better too. There was a time I could front any of these classes 1v1 and kill them, player skill being the determinant.

I still play mine as I like the weapon skills and the look. But I admit its not very powerful. I feel have to work insanely hard to do reasonably. The gear never seems to match what I want to do or give me enough health. In SPVP I log in and do the daily and log out. It stopped being fun a while ago.

To the OP: Read the other thread. Roll a warrior. The class balance dev plays one and that is why it is so strong. There is nothing else to consider.

Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.

Heals you and nearby allies.
Buffs you and nearby allies.
Burns enemy and nearby foes.

Guardian is a SUPPORT class, it is NOT meant for 1v1. The game is not balanced around 1v1, stop trying to balance the game around 1v1.

Support what? My buffs last like 5 seconds. 5 sec of support, 30 sec of Cd… I can hear the conversation now, “Boy am I glad the guardian was there to support me with a tiny 5 second buff that a simple condition already puts on me. I am really glad he is on my team.”

In pvp I encounter 1v1 fights all the time. The maps are designed around it. I think I should have a chance vs these classes. I used to be able to beat them before they got buffed. I used to be able to beat thieves too but I had to change my build to fight off conditions and now I can’t. The last patch really made this the worst class in the game.

Sure you can be the best at dishing out might. Whippy do.

Oh boy… I can list several ways you can help your team. However I am not here to teach you how to play, just to tell you you are wrong.

Please just stop whilst your ahead.

I would also argue that we used to be good at 1v1 encounters and now are not. The class needs to be examined. If the OP wants to have fun in this game he would be much much better with a warrior.

Lets see.

Combo Field: Light, Cures conditions for you and allies when they use their skills, some can spam like Whirling Wrath to constantly cure conditions.

Chains you can pull many foes to you to help your team secure a location and aoe a spot.

AOE Retaliation and Stability to Protect your allies against CC.

Dodge to heal all allies.

Fields to prevent enemies from walking up them stalling there team.

LEARN TO PLAY

You can’t do any of those things when the 4k/s of conditions strip off your 15k health. Guess those 5 seconds of dodge rolling glory were worth it.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcc9omRhgmmRhgmVxaVG9MbV0s
There, now you have lots of condition removal!

*The tools to remove conditions are there… *

[off-topic]
Isnt that build kinda far from having lots of condition removal???

Removing 3 condis per shout + 2 each ten seconds, even if could remove that, after “waste” your shouts, that is 6 condtitions removed and 3 trnaformed to boons only with shouts for sure you would have loads of conditions back in 2 or 3 seconds.
I really dont know what WvW people do, unless they play only based to melee damage, wich IMO was the old gameplay of lower tiers, to beat the odds player start to play necro swarms wich showed to be pretty efective due the number of conditions vs conditions removals, canceling stability symbols and boons, massive fear and craploads of wells, this also works on small scale expecially if you have 1 or 2 good thief.

I was exaggerating a little.

The truth is I have to spec so much for condition removals in my various pvp I don’t have any points left to really enhance my fun skills.

On the other hand, I can make a pretty tanky warrior and still have points left to throw into a couple damage skills or abilities that you really notice and have fun with.

Let me see the spec.

Don’t worry, the developers have a better grasp of how the game plays then most. They know that most classes have an upper hand over warrior and they know that Warrior’s lack anything like the other classes have as well.

BlackBeard.2873:

Daecollo.9578:

Battle Frenzy
Heals per strike of adrenaline.
125 (0.045 Healing Power)

Add a trait like this like the other classes have, and I will agree its OP. However since we don’t have such a trait that heals us significantly like the other classes do, please stop talking. We don’t even evades or protection.

Evade when using a Burst

Gain Protection after you use a shield skill

Gain Protection when you use a healing skill.

Gain Protection after you dodge

Gain Protection and Retaliation when Struck with a Critical Hit!

Warriors have almost no interesting traits, we have nothing cool-nore special. Our weapon skills don’t have boons/conditions like poison added to them, we are GENERIC. Our best traits add +% damage! GET REAL.

Give us the tools other classes have and I will show you the meaning of pain.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health

I guess its OP… Its not even a grandmaster, its a master-level minor trait.

Also, if you want more evades, use warhorn. It has perma-vigor and swiftness with traits, and can weaken enemies. Also, GS #3 is an evade as well. You also have invulnerability skills as well.

Adrenal Health does not go well with cleansing ire, because we are constantly losing all our adrenaline when we use our burst to heal conditions. It is an ok heal, however it is not as powerful as say: Gain protection after you dodge… or 5 seconds of vigor on critical.

Relentliss.2170:

Daecollo.9578:

Relentliss.2170:

Daecollo.9578:

Relentliss.2170:

Daecollo.9578:

Relentliss.2170:

foofad.5162:

Guardians aren’t in the worst spot ever, but they are definitely hurting.

I reckon we are probably in the bottom 3 classes if not the worst class atm. We used to be in the Top 3. The new changes that lead to massive conditions are a direct counter to us in PVP.

Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight. Mesmers and Eles seem to be better too. There was a time I could front any of these classes 1v1 and kill them, player skill being the determinant.

I still play mine as I like the weapon skills and the look. But I admit its not very powerful. I feel have to work insanely hard to do reasonably. The gear never seems to match what I want to do or give me enough health. In SPVP I log in and do the daily and log out. It stopped being fun a while ago.

To the OP: Read the other thread. Roll a warrior. The class balance dev plays one and that is why it is so strong. There is nothing else to consider.

Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.

Heals you and nearby allies.
Buffs you and nearby allies.
Burns enemy and nearby foes.

Guardian is a SUPPORT class, it is NOT meant for 1v1. The game is not balanced around 1v1, stop trying to balance the game around 1v1.

Support what? My buffs last like 5 seconds. 5 sec of support, 30 sec of Cd… I can hear the conversation now, “Boy am I glad the guardian was there to support me with a tiny 5 second buff that a simple condition already puts on me. I am really glad he is on my team.”

In pvp I encounter 1v1 fights all the time. The maps are designed around it. I think I should have a chance vs these classes. I used to be able to beat them before they got buffed. I used to be able to beat thieves too but I had to change my build to fight off conditions and now I can’t. The last patch really made this the worst class in the game.

Sure you can be the best at dishing out might. Whippy do.

Oh boy… I can list several ways you can help your team. However I am not here to teach you how to play, just to tell you you are wrong.

Please just stop whilst your ahead.

I would also argue that we used to be good at 1v1 encounters and now are not. The class needs to be examined. If the OP wants to have fun in this game he would be much much better with a warrior.

Lets see.

Combo Field: Light, Cures conditions for you and allies when they use their skills, some can spam like Whirling Wrath to constantly cure conditions.

Chains you can pull many foes to you to help your team secure a location and aoe a spot.

AOE Retaliation and Stability to Protect your allies against CC.

Dodge to heal all allies.

Fields to prevent enemies from walking up them stalling there team.

LEARN TO PLAY

You can’t do any of those things when the 4k/s of conditions strip off your 15k health. Guess those 5 seconds of dodge rolling glory were worth it.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcc9omRhgmmRhgmVxaVG9MbV0s
There, now you have lots of condition removal!

*The tools to remove conditions are there… *

KarlusDavius.1024:

Please don’t necro threads

Would you rather me make a new topic?

Relentliss.2170:

Daecollo.9578:

Relentliss.2170:

Daecollo.9578:

Relentliss.2170:

foofad.5162:

Guardians aren’t in the worst spot ever, but they are definitely hurting.

I reckon we are probably in the bottom 3 classes if not the worst class atm. We used to be in the Top 3. The new changes that lead to massive conditions are a direct counter to us in PVP.

Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight. Mesmers and Eles seem to be better too. There was a time I could front any of these classes 1v1 and kill them, player skill being the determinant.

I still play mine as I like the weapon skills and the look. But I admit its not very powerful. I feel have to work insanely hard to do reasonably. The gear never seems to match what I want to do or give me enough health. In SPVP I log in and do the daily and log out. It stopped being fun a while ago.

To the OP: Read the other thread. Roll a warrior. The class balance dev plays one and that is why it is so strong. There is nothing else to consider.

Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.

Heals you and nearby allies.
Buffs you and nearby allies.
Burns enemy and nearby foes.

Guardian is a SUPPORT class, it is NOT meant for 1v1. The game is not balanced around 1v1, stop trying to balance the game around 1v1.

Support what? My buffs last like 5 seconds. 5 sec of support, 30 sec of Cd… I can hear the conversation now, “Boy am I glad the guardian was there to support me with a tiny 5 second buff that a simple condition already puts on me. I am really glad he is on my team.”

In pvp I encounter 1v1 fights all the time. The maps are designed around it. I think I should have a chance vs these classes. I used to be able to beat them before they got buffed. I used to be able to beat thieves too but I had to change my build to fight off conditions and now I can’t. The last patch really made this the worst class in the game.

Sure you can be the best at dishing out might. Whippy do.

Oh boy… I can list several ways you can help your team. However I am not here to teach you how to play, just to tell you you are wrong.

Please just stop whilst your ahead.

I would also argue that we used to be good at 1v1 encounters and now are not. The class needs to be examined. If the OP wants to have fun in this game he would be much much better with a warrior.

Lets see.

Combo Field: Light, Cures conditions for you and allies when they use their skills, some can spam like Whirling Wrath to constantly cure conditions.

Chains you can pull many foes to you to help your team secure a location and aoe a spot.

AOE Retaliation and Stability to Protect your allies against CC.

Dodge to heal all allies.

Fields to prevent enemies from walking up them stalling there team.

LEARN TO PLAY

Relentliss.2170:

Daecollo.9578:

Relentliss.2170:

foofad.5162:

Guardians aren’t in the worst spot ever, but they are definitely hurting.

I reckon we are probably in the bottom 3 classes if not the worst class atm. We used to be in the Top 3. The new changes that lead to massive conditions are a direct counter to us in PVP.

Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight. Mesmers and Eles seem to be better too. There was a time I could front any of these classes 1v1 and kill them, player skill being the determinant.

I still play mine as I like the weapon skills and the look. But I admit its not very powerful. I feel have to work insanely hard to do reasonably. The gear never seems to match what I want to do or give me enough health. In SPVP I log in and do the daily and log out. It stopped being fun a while ago.

To the OP: Read the other thread. Roll a warrior. The class balance dev plays one and that is why it is so strong. There is nothing else to consider.

Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.

Heals you and nearby allies.
Buffs you and nearby allies.
Burns enemy and nearby foes.

Guardian is a SUPPORT class, it is NOT meant for 1v1. The game is not balanced around 1v1, stop trying to balance the game around 1v1.

Support what? My buffs last like 5 seconds. 5 sec of support, 30 sec of Cd… I can hear the conversation now, “Boy am I glad the guardian was there to support me with a tiny 5 second buff that a simple condition already puts on me. I am really glad he is on my team.”

In pvp I encounter 1v1 fights all the time. The maps are designed around it. I think I should have a chance vs these classes. I used to be able to beat them before they got buffed. I used to be able to beat thieves too but I had to change my build to fight off conditions and now I can’t. The last patch really made this the worst class in the game.

Sure you can be the best at dishing out might. Whippy do.

Oh boy… I can list several ways you can help your team. However I am not here to teach you how to play, just to tell you you are wrong.

Please just stop whilst your ahead.

Relentliss.2170:

foofad.5162:

Guardians aren’t in the worst spot ever, but they are definitely hurting.

I reckon we are probably in the bottom 3 classes if not the worst class atm. We used to be in the Top 3. The new changes that lead to massive conditions are a direct counter to us in PVP.

Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight. Mesmers and Eles seem to be better too. There was a time I could front any of these classes 1v1 and kill them, player skill being the determinant.

I still play mine as I like the weapon skills and the look. But I admit its not very powerful. I feel have to work insanely hard to do reasonably. The gear never seems to match what I want to do or give me enough health. In SPVP I log in and do the daily and log out. It stopped being fun a while ago.

To the OP: Read the other thread. Roll a warrior. The class balance dev plays one and that is why it is so strong. There is nothing else to consider.

Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.
Necros, Warriors, Rangers, and Thieves are all much better than us in a 1v1 fight.

Heals you and nearby allies.
Buffs you and nearby allies.
Burns enemy and nearby foes.

Guardian is a SUPPORT class, it is NOT meant for 1v1. The game is not balanced around 1v1, stop trying to balance the game around 1v1.

Guardians are one of the best classes in the game, they always have a spot due to powerful team support and bunker-ing skills.

A Trait Idea (Grandmaster)

Battle Frenzy
Heals per strike of adrenaline.
125 (0.045 Healing Power)

Add a trait like this like the other classes have, and I will agree its OP. However since we don’t have such a trait that heals us significantly like the other classes do, please stop talking. We don’t even evades or protection.

Evade when using a Burst

Gain Protection after you use a shield skill

Gain Protection when you use a healing skill.

Gain Protection after you dodge

Gain Protection and Retaliation when Struck with a Critical Hit!

Warriors have almost no interesting traits, we have nothing cool-nore special. Our weapon skills don’t have boons/conditions like poison added to them, we are GENERIC. Our best traits add +% damage! GET REAL.

Give us the tools other classes have and I will show you the meaning of pain.

Curring.9752:

Dae, are you seriously that narrow minded?
The mantra heal for Mesmer is a niche heal, the elixir heal for engi is a niche heal, necro’s minion heal is niche, need I continue?

No one else has the regen and the health pool and the toughness while retaining high amounts of damage a warrior has. Warrior isn’t meant to have defencive healing traits, if you want that play a guardian/elementalist, engineer to a lesser extent, but then you’ll only complain about their small health pools and lack of damage. Only Guardians get Aegis wish procs every 40 seconds and goes on an even longer CD when actually used, you’re over rating it, really. Don’t see why you’re so obssed with blinds, want a blind? Use a longbow, problem solved. Endure pain and the shield block says hello, again! Spam evades? Vigor on stance use and use Sigil of Energy, problemo solved.
Spirit of Nature has more HPS? Do you even read your own link or play the game for that matter? It has less HPS than the signet, is an elite and has a 3 min cooldown, you can hardly compare the two.

It has 480 hp/s.

You also never Awnsered my question.

Warrior is not meant to have defensive traits? So why does thief? Warrior seems way more defensive minded then they should be.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow's_Rejuvenation This is a Thief Defensive trait which HEALS for quite a lot, its not even a healing skill!

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_H is not a Niche, it can be used with all combinations of armor and weapons and be viable. It does not need healing power to be effective.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Return is not a Niche, it can be used with all combinations of armor and weapons and be viable. It does not need healing power to be effective.

As soon as you start forcing people to gear for certain skills is the day you ruin the game. If you want to nerf Warrior, your going to have to give US a Grandmaster self healing trait like everyone else has!

A lot of things had no internal cool-down.

However a lot of people screamed for balance, and took all the opportunity cost out of the game and now we have a balanced one.

Don’t Complain.

I know what will builds Variety.

Put Healing Power in the Valor Tree.
Put Boon Duration in the Honor Tree.
Put Critical Damage in the Virtues Tree.

Now your not stuck in 0/0/30/0/0 because you don’t have all your damage/defenses in one nice little tree.