Guild Wars 2

3 people on the homelands during prime-time in T8, really?

ANet should really have an eye on the state of WvW.

Capacity of WvW in EU is 7 days * 24 hours * 3 Maps * 100 people * 27 Server = 1.36 MILLION PLAY HOURS per week.

I would really wonder how much of them are actual used. How much hours do you spend in WVW usually per week? 14? i.e. 2h every day? Would give space for 100’000 people in EU or 4000 per server or 28 hours per week i.e. 4h every day, would give space for 50’000 people or 2000 per server. How many do we have? 1000 in T1, 50 in T9?

And I would also be interested to hear, why they think that so much overcapacity = empty maps is needed?

RedStar.4218:

Quells.2498:

It’s only so because you’ve trained yourselves to think of it as a karma map. Think about it competitively for a second before you just rattle off nonsense.

We can think of it whatever way we want. The players over there are using it as a karma train. And can be pretty organized about it.

If you want you can try to disrupt that karma train, but in the end except getting into an argument with them, it won’t change anything since there are multiple copies of EotM and more people interested in doing karma trains than disrupting them.

EotM as a stand alone game mode will be as it is.
Please distinguish between EotM-game mode (4h matches with overflow maps and random-teams without TS) and EotM-map.

But if the EotM-map is used (additionally) by the WvW player as replacement for the 3 borderland-maps (and the eotm player keep their own eotm-map for karma train) as part of the WvW-matches things will look very different.

Another interesting experiment would be to setup EB-map in EotM-mode. Either every 2nd overflow-instance will be the EB-map instead of the EotM-map over people choose in EotM-mode, if they want EotM-map or EB-map.

If both experiments (EotM-map used in WvW-Mode, and EB-Map used in EotM-Mode) where done, we know better, if different player behavior in EotM-mode and WvW-mode is due to map or mode-setup.

I don’t think a season is the best point in time to do so, but maybe once as an experiment, and if the experiment was liked by the people maybe once a month or 1 in 10 weeks or 1 in 20 weeks could be cool, not because the eotm-map is somehow better,
only because it something different and not always the same, that we have now since over 100 weeks

And concerning balance: There is nothing balanced in WvW, why should the maps be balanced. The map-imbalance could even be used to counter the man-power imbalance. FB is probably weakest, give it to the team with highest Rating (as they are strongest, they have fewest gain from easy inner-keep defense), OG is probably strongest, give is to the team with least Glicko, BL has the strongest offensive boosts give it to the middle team.

Another aspect is: Just EotM-map and EB-map halves the total map-capacity from 400 to 200. If I got it right over 50% of all WvW-teams have trouble filling more than 2 maps. Could be an opportunity for them to be more competitive.

Filovirus.6258:

I don’t see why anyone would still waste time reading you….

Great Idea. I’ll give up with your posts as well.

Romek.4201:

but anyway – elona not green this week so its the normal “doom and gloom” from dayra

i bet this week we will see 2-3 threads from you with “how to balance eotm” “merge servers” and stuff like this

SFR is not green, we will see how many such threads will be made, but definitely not by me, while I am on the handicapped side.

I already know that a lot of people that run out of arguments switch to “affront by imputation of bad attitude”.

Therefore I time my proposals better:

• I proposed random assignment to EotM team last week, when we were green.
• I proposed “coverage nerf” when we were good in coverage and not when we were hit by better coverage of others.
• …

In any case, I knew that it is likely that everyone is sometimes on the benefited side (which is often boring) and sometimes on the handicapped side (which is sometimes challenging, but much to often only frustrating). My conclusion is: It’s best to improve equality and competitiveness by reducing both benefits and handicaps.

PS: Nice to hear from you after you left our guild at Elona, Romek. How is it at SFR? Your expectations meet? Is is worth 1800 gems?

Romek.4201:

and the problem is?

I made a prediction, we will know in 5 weeks, if it was correct. And should it be correct we will see how many people will have a problem with it.

The prediction is based on the observation that more and more WVW/EotM player overstack on SFR, such that in the meantime SFR provides more than 50% of it’s EotM-team of 9 servers. That leads to nice fights between green and SFRs color, when SFR is not green, but it is a waste of time to enter EotM when SFR is green. I personally will not enter EotM, whenever SFR is green. If many people see it like me and SFR will be green 4 weeks in a row, no one will be left in EotM.

Read more carefully!

I did NOT called you anything.

I said you use the same argumentation pattern, namely: “It’s fair that I have this advantage, because I always had it” and that this is a very dangerous argumentation pattern with high abuse potential.

@Filovirus: Let me start with a comment on your style: You make to many assumptions about the motivation of people. As they are assumptions, most are wrong. In any case they are irrelevant, the reason why someone likes or dislikes something is quite irrelevant for a dicussion of the content. It is important to respect likes/dislikes, independent of motivation. You may ask for reasons, e.g. to find a compromise. But you should never impute a bad attitude, this is only an affront and not an argument and it makes discussions toxic.

Filovirus.6258:

Dayra.7405:

“one day they’ll fight for hours to defend a keep with wp, 2 days later they play at another time, and end up in a map without it,”
[…]
This proposal tries to reach that without producing mega-queue at primetime.

IE : as usual “I’m Dayra, i’m play during prime time [what YOU call prime time btw] so i found a solution punishing players playing outside of that time frame to make it better for players playing in that time frime”.

Wrong assumption. My main WvW time was never primetime. And I think the term primetime has nothing to do, when I play, but when most people play, in another thread I defined prime-time as the time where more than 1000 people are in the match, that’s usually in the evening, in lower tears maybe never. My main WvW time was early morning.

Filovirus.6258:

The problem with your ideas is ALWAYS the same : you want people to be punished/made irrelevant if they don’t play when you consider they should, and only acknowledge the effort made by people during your prime time….

First of all, reduction of importance is not punishment. You argue like a typical member of the winner-side of an discrimination: “oh they argue aganst my privileges, they want to punish us, and destroy the country”. The current scoring discriminates prime-time player, by negating their influence on match-outcome. And it’s a matter of fairness and not a matter of personal gain to fight for an end of this dismination. In fact I would loose influence on match-outcome, but that does not interest me et al. And it is not punishment to fight for more equality, it’s a bad attitude to support an existing discrimination for the own increase of importance.

Filovirus.6258:

I’m sorry but there is people doing far more for the server than you EVER did in those moments. …

Any relavance to the proposal? No, only a personal attack.

Filovirus.6258:

Despite a “sexy” attire, ALL your proposals/ideas all boils down to : “remove everything that is off peak on how i play so i can have fun”.

Again a wrong assumption. My personal gain of this proposal would be: I would find more enemies and not only doors to fight early in the morning.

Filovirus.6258:

… (cut out more unsuported and wrong assumptions)

I’ll repeat myself but the problem is what YOU want isn’t WvW, you want a competititve balanced system with equal numbers on each side.

Yes, wouldn’t it be cool if season-competition with season-rewards would be made when WvW is an “competititve balanced system with equal numbers on each side”.

As an alternative to making WvW a “competititve balanced system with equal numbers on each side”, I proposed to drop score (better no score than a meaningless score, that frustrate many people, or let them overstack) and especially seasons and season rewards. “Bar fights” aren’t an olympic discipline for a good reason. If WvW should go olympia make it more like boxing, or keep it away from olympia.
If you bring “bar fights” or current WvW to olympia you will have only many more death and injured.

Filovirus.6258:

… wich is a Team vs Team system, on a short time span

A single pure time slices match (as discussed in the forum half a year ago, supported by me, but not my idea) is 7 days a 8 hours, the trick of time-sliced matches is you have several of them running in parallel during the wek, e.g. 3 a 8h a day: one every day 16:00-24:00, a second every day 8:00-16:00 and the third every day 0:00-8:00.
At the end of a slice the match-state it is saved and at the beginnig of it’s next slice it’s is restored to that state. So it is really a single match consisting of 7 times 8h.
If you had a WP at 24:00 you are guranteed find it again at 16:00 next day when the slice is restored.
You may or may not have it in the restored slice at 0:00, that depends on the state saved at 8:00 last morning.
The main advantage over today is: the different slices can be separately balanced.

This proposal goes further by combining 2 servers forces into 1 shared match during the day-slice and 4 servers to 1 in the night-slice to fill up the empty maps.

I don’t believe there is any “artificial keeping it very high”. It is just no one look at it.
Since ever everyone who’s last registration was on a server count to the population of that server, if he is active, inactive.

So even if your active population dropped a lot your registered population did not. And therefore not your transfer status.

It will not take very much longer and also the dominant team has a problem as well: no opponent and nothing to capture.

Should SFR dominate the 3rd season as I expect it, it will be green 4 weeks in a row and no one will go to EotM for blue and red anymore.

Hm, I don’t know. Ascended chests do not have a level on their own, such that the normal rule:" You cannot get an item of higher level than your char" cannot apply.

And you can get them from Defeating Tequatl the Sunless, Triple Trouble or Guild missions reward chests as well, all are events you can attend below level 80.

The wiki doesn’t say anything as well: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascended_chest

Morsus.5106:

WingLegacy.7159:

Ascended was a mistake for Anet and now OP wants it to be par with Legendary?

Exotics were on par with Legendary.

And legendaries did not had changeable stats at that time (this was a feature they gained when asc. Was introduced). They weren’t more than a skin to be transmuted with an exotic that had the stats of your choice.

“one day they’ll fight for hours to defend a keep with wp, 2 days later they play at another time, and end up in a map without it,”

There is only one way to find a WP two days later: Play on a server that dominated the last 48 hours. I just scrolled through the top matches:

• In T1 only the SFR EB Keep lasted 5 days, everything else is less than 24h
• In T2 only the Deso EB Keep lasted 5 days, everything else is less than 24h
• In T3 only the Elona EB keep lasted 4+ days, and on Elona Homelands garrison 2+ days, bay and hill 1+ days, everything else less than 1 day.
  … ( I guess it continues like that, but did not checked)

In my view the three worst problems in WvW are
1) Balance
2) Emptyness of to many maps at to many times
3) Coverage
And of course they have many interactions.
Beside ANets winner-rewards at seasons, that increased man-power imbalance, coverage differences are a mayor reason for a) blow out matches b) additional transfers increasing manpower imbalance (I have a better game experience, when I move to a server were there are people protecting my stuff in the night).

Of course both man-power imbalance and coverage imbalance are only a problem, because most maps are empty most of the time on most servers.

If all maps would always be filled all the time by all teams in all matches, then a server with more people would just have more problems (namely more people in queue than elsewhere) and coverage disparities would be absorbed by the queue as well. Therefore reducing the capacity of WvW a lot would solve all three problems as well. But it would produce mega-queue at prime time, if you reduce capacity equally at all times (i.e. merging servers totally).

This proposal tries to reach that without producing mega-queue at primetime.

Maybe changeable stats on ascended gear is to strong (even if I would like it), how about a “light” version of it:

Make an NPC, where you can change the stats of an ascended item you own for a fee of some gold?

Then adapting my gear after a balance-change would cost me
6 armor + 6 trinkets +5 weapons = 17*fee gold
but wouldn’t totally trash my efforts.

Also drops with stats you do not like would have a value and don’t sit as unusable stuff in my bank any longer.

“one sided matches with people only playing when you want to play and without the right to play otherwise or being punished for it”

Obviously you have seen that in this proposal or you would not write that, but what made you believing this would be the result, should my proposal be implemented?

This really interest me, because in fact I want “a WvW with very close matches”. I want a WvW where a match between the first and the last is close till the end. And not a WvW where a match between the first and the 3rd is decided after 12 hours as it is today.

A lot of people complained in the forum about “my day effort is crushed at night”, “it’s frustrating to play because matches are decided when I am sleeping”, “I think servers should be merged”, “I think servers should not be merged, because I would loose my identity”. I read forum a lot, as far as I noticed this is the first “partial merge” proposal, to overcome the weakness of to many servers and still keeping identity.

Of course I could take the easy way out and transfer to SFR, I’ve the gold as well as the € to do so. Then I can simply crush all others and laugh about their complaints as far to many do. But I prefer to make proposals that – in my view – have the potential to improve WvW experience for everyone. Even, if a lot of people here comment ideas before they made serious efforts to understand them, and some even seem to have developed an aversion against me for doing so.

Btw. I’ve no idea what is WoW BGs is. I disliked the way WoWs paints the world, so I never played it.

PS: I only propose people what they eventially could do and ask how they like it, where’re your text is full of STOP this or STOP that. Who is trying to “FORCING people to be like HE likes” more?

@Flovirus:
I do not kill WvW, as I am not making it.

Still I am thinking about how things – which I see as problems – may be improved.
(in this case that there are only doors and NPC, but only rarely player, to fight in the morning, even in EU-T2)

And if I have an idea, I try to describe that idea for you to give an opinion or even an improvement. Maybe people see it as good idea, maybe people see it as bad idea, maybe people like to play that way, maybe people hate to play that way, without proposing and discussing we will never find out.

Even if a proposal find many supporting players, it is far away from influencing your WvW experience. It would need support at ANet as well. We will never know if they read it nor what they implement, but maybe someone reads it and implements something slightly inspired by it.

All this is absolutely no reasons to call others proposals stupid, dumb or to make any other generell judgement. This only disqualifies yourself as a serious person. Qualified comments are: I would like to play it (because …), I would hate to play it (because …), I don’t understand it, It would be better if you do XYZ instead of 0815, I would prefer to play XYZ (because …).

Jahroots.6791:

This thread makes my head hurt. I just can’t with you people sometimes. What kind of a player base rejects an idea that benefits all of us?

There is one player category that suffers, the richest among us:
The legendary makers/sellers

Which is another reason for me to support that proposal

Talyn.3295:

I don’t want to be on a different team due to my time slice. That and I don’t like the idea of slices.

You are NOT on different teams. You are always BG, if you want to be BG.

I just made day-teams larger by merging 2 evening teams that play together during the day.

And I made night-teams larger by merging 2 day teams, i.e. 4 evening teams in the night during the night.

This way more evening teams can profit from good night and day coverage of the few player that play at that time.

To make an NA example, there we already have 24 teams.

During the 8 hours of the evening slice the 8 matches may be as they are now.

During the 8 hours of the day-slice it could be 4 matches as following e.g.
Match1: JQ+ET vs BG+FC vs TC+Kaineng
Match2: SoS+SF vs FA+AR vs Maguma+SoR
Match3: DB+EB vs SI+Darkheaven vs CD+GoM
Match4: YB+NSP vs DR+HoD vs IoJ+BP

During the 8 hours of the night-slice it could be 2 matches as following e.g.
Match 1: JQ+ET+YB+NSP vs BG+FC+DR+HoD vs TC+Kaineng+IoJ+BP
Match 2: SoS+SF+DB+EB vs FA+AR+SI+Darkheaven vs Maguma+SoR+CD+GoM

Everyone

• can play for his team, whenever he like to play for his team (all the scores achieved in the different slices are added together as the total score of this team)
• will find more people on the map to play against whenever he likes to play, independed if he is in T1 or T8.

You can make the teams fix, e.g. JQ+ET+YB+NSP are always together in the night or you can make the teams variable: T1-green+T8-red+T4-green+T5-red (whoever fills these roles during a week) are always together in the night.

+1 to OP.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

So wait.. you want Ascended weapons, which already have the same LEVEL of stats as legendary to be able to swap stats around just like a legendary?

Essentially you want a Weapon with Legendary stats and capabilities for like one tenth the cost…

ummm no…. that’s a horrible idea…

No I don’t think so, it would reduce legendaries to what they should be: a unique visual effect and the guarantee that it will be always a top weapon.

I don’t think it’s a fair investment protection (and we talk about a mayor investment of 300-400 gold for an armor set) that you need new ascended stuff whenever ANet has the idea to tweak balance.

Yes color changes when WvW matches are made. That’s every Friday 20:00-20:15 CEST for EU.

Color is strongly influenced by ranking, but since may 2013 it also has a small random elements. And this random element made SFR blue this week and not green. (See e.g. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/EotM-Green-is-King/4361800 for the details.)

On the 12. Sept the 3rd season starts. During the season your color is fully determined by season rank (with is different from off-seasons Glicko rank). Expect SFR to be green for the 4 weeks season following 12. September.

dancingmonkey.4902:

A completely unreasonable concept. It is very selfish of you in my opinion, to strive to punish those who do not keep the same schedule as you.

I would go for this if you would agree to being locked out of WvW for 24 hrs, unless you log on and play during the hours that are convenient for me on fridays – mondays. That is just as fair? Right?

Can you explain this? I do not see a relation of your complain to my proposal.

Not one is ever logged out at any time. Everyone is member of a team at every point in time. And therefore can play at contribute to his team at every point in time.

24 server does not fit the current server structure (and I would propose that everyone gets a free choice should something like that is implemented.)
Nevertheless let my illustrate this proposal with current sever names.

During the 8 hours of the evening-slice SFR, Vabbi, FSP and RoF are different teams that play their own matches (but the match making ensures that they never play against each other). During the 8 hours of the day-slice SFR and Vabbi are grouped together to build a day team and FSP and RoF are grouped together to build a second day team. In the night all 4 are grouped together to build a single night-team.

The result of the day match of combined SFR-Vabbi team is added to both teams overal score. Similar the result of all 4 together night match is added to each teams individual score.

This way you always contribute to RoFs score, if you play at night day or evening, if RoF is your team.

Match making depends of course on the 2 possibilities above.

If every player chooses his team at will, you would have 2 night matches made as today, 4 day matches made independently of the night matches as today’s matches are made and the same for evening matches. You would also have 3 leader boards.

If you chose the combine teams approach, match making would be hierarchical.
The 2 night matches would be made as today. Let’s say AvsBvsC is one match.
For the day matches to make 2 matches compatible with this one match. So per random you choose A.1 or A.2 for the first match and the other for the second match, similar for B.1 and B.2 and also C.1 and C.2.. For the evening match you again have twice as many matches, you choose between A.1.1 and A.1.2 for the fist and so on.
This way people that are in the same night team never play against each other during the day nor in the evening. For the leader you can say the score of A.1.1 is the A night-score plus A.1 day score plus the A.1.1 evening score and/or you can say the score of the A-team is it’s nigh score plus both of its day score plus the sum of all 4 evening team scores.

Obviously the number of people that play during the different time-slices of the day are rather different. For simplicity lets call them night, day and evening based on the majority of players of NA/EU (but it would make no difference to call them EU-prime, NA-prime, OCX-prime instead).

But even if the number are so different the number of teams and maps are the same for all time-slices.

Whereas a lot server are able to fill the map during evening, some (but not all) even with queue on all 4 maps, a few are able to fill all maps during the day (esp. on weekends all 4 maps queue occurred on some servers), I haven’t heard of any server that ever had 4-map queues during the night.

To enable better game play all around the clock, it would probably be better to have fewer teams at times where fewer people are playing.

Only ANet may know the exact player numbers and therefore the best number of servers for each time-slice.

Based on EU experiences I would assume that the following could a good thing:

• 24 teams in the evening
• 12 teams (join 2 evening teams) during the day
• 6 teams (join 2 day-teams, i.e. 4 evening teams) during the night

Instad of joining evening-teams for day and night, you could also say:
each player freely chooses exactly one evening and exactly one 1 day and exactly one 1 night-team to play.

What do you think?

Careful, there is a good reason why there is no world or server chat: (gold) spammer would fill it 24/7.

However, a possibility would be you can only send *text blocks provided by ANet" into such a chat, e.g.:

• “guild <guild name> recruiting on server <server>! Contact <player>”’, such a message-item could be produced by a guild for influence, such that you could build and use one every few hours.
• “WvW team on map <map> need support for <objective-code> <15 letter text>”, a message buyable for badges of honor by a player every few hours.
• …

People in EotM so far don’t have the patience for serious attacks against defended keeps.
And it’s hard to motivate this, as long as there is other stuff to take.

I never tried, but probably you can treb the east gate of the inner Overgrown keep from the top-platform of the observatory. Would be really hard to counter, if possible.

A serious battle against a defended inner keep of blue would probably go via the middle gate. the first gate you can pass, the second you can treb/cata without fearing the mortars, as soon as you oppend the 2nd you have access to the roof of the buildings surrounding the inner keep on west and south, which give you a position to clear the wall defenses. It could be a very cool fight if ever done.

On the WvW maps every siege spot is now known since ages, on EotM only a very small percentage of all the possibilities has been explored. (only the ram-spots are well explored and even the scorpion spots aren’t all explored so far. )

Coldtart.4785:

No, they found that eotm only supports braindead people who need the map to hold their hand when trying to play strategically.

Hm. I prefer to play with people, that do not produce such statements.
That of course gives EotM a big advantage over WvW.

It would be nice if the 5 cities would be excluded from mega-server and would each have an individual flair.

• an international city (all servers randomly mixed up), e.g. to go to world-bosses, dungeons, fractals
• a server-specific city where all and only people from your server are assigned, it must have portals to the 4 WvW-maps
• a color-specific city, where are servers with this color are mixed, it must have a portal to EotM
• a language specific city, if you go there you can be 100% sure to meat only people speaking your language (i.e. only germans, only french, only spanish, other languages would be nice as well, but this would need a language option beside server-language differentiation).

You level so fast that you have seen less than 10% of the world when you hit 80.

So go out and explore the world.

• map completion and all the different events
• achievements
• ascended equipment with a few legendary weapons

Should keep you busy for another 1000 lvl ups.

But admittedly, as well equiped down leveled a lot things are to easy. An option to level down a few more levels, I.e. play 1-5 level below mob level instead of always 1-2 level above mobs would be nice. An option to choose less crowded maps such that you can fight champs and world-bosses with a handful people and not a 50-100 blob would be nice. And the real luxury would be hard-mode maps, where mob density would be higher, veteran percentage would be higher and mob respawn would be shorter. E.g. Orr was more difficult 2-years ago, they nerfed all this due many complaints about difficulty, and mega server was introduced as well, as many people found it to difficult to do events with a few companions instead of a blob.

Coldtart.4785:

X Factor.2641:

snip

The problem with eotm is that even if you take it seriously it’s still just eotm. It’s still that map with the absurdly unbalanced keeps, meat grinder choke points that hand wins to the first group to claim them and narrow bridges that make skyhammer look fair.

Don’t forget why it became a karma train map. All the ppt guilds and all the fighting guilds wanted nothing to do with it when it first came out.

They found their tactics for WvW-maps and turned out to inflexible to find new tactics for EotM. Ok their choice

But I don’t really see that a “my tactic doesn’t work there” make a map tacticless. It only shows the inflexibility of the tactic-owner.

It’s quite irrelevant that the different sides are balanced if you play for fights and not for points. But I find it very interesting that they are different and require different tactics.

Red would be my favored side to play, if it wouldn’t be that horrible outmanned most of he time.

Overall player ratio in percent.
Mean player numbers in percent per 4h time-slice, I.e. at 0:00 till 4:00, 4:00 till 8:00, …
Mean score per 4h time-slice, I.e. at 0:00 till 4:00, 4:00 till 8:00, …

ANet seem to prefer to keep the player numbers secret. However for comparison relative player ratio is sufficient and doesn’t allow to infer the real numbers.

Statements like

“Who’s, green had 50% more troops but only managed to get 20% more points. Great job!”

“During prime with equal we crushed them, they only won as they had 3 times as many player in the night.”

would have an emperical base.

Having them at the battle historian, is nice, even nicer would be to have them in the API, such that sites like http://www.gw2score.com can produce fancy evaluations out of them.

PS: Which objectives got flipped how often by each server you can already see there. And the score distribution between objective possession (score from tick) and bloodlust-stomps+doylaks+sentry’s (Score not from tick) you can see there as well.

X Factor.2641:

….

+1

This week in EU was a quite good Week to fights in EotM. OG had number as it was green, and FR had mostly equal number as they had SFR.

The main idea to reach more balance is rewarding achievements with fewer numbers than the same achievements with higher numbers. And make this reward difference public, such that people see it and start thinking.

If you want to reach 24/7 balance you have to measure 24/7. So at every tick the current-manpower of every team is measured (as mean of people in during these 15min).
Then you compute the mean over all server and how many percent of this mean every server has. The reward multiplier is 1/percentage, i.e. the more manpower you used to reach something the lower is your accomplishment and therefore your reward.

Here is an example with 9 servers in a league:
Server Manpower % of mean Rewardmultiplier
server 1 240 135.85% 73.61%
server 2 230 130.19% 76.81%
server 3 250 141.51% 70.67%
server 4 180 101.89% 98.15%
server 5 170 96.23% 103.92%
server 6 130 73.58% 135.90%
server 7 140 79.25% 126.19%
server 8 130 73.58% 135.90%
server 9 120 67.92% 147.22%

The mean manpower of all servers is 176.6666667

This reward multiplier is used to modify

• the score-value of every objective acquired in this tick till next owner change, if you acquire a tower which normally worth 10 points as server 1 in the tick above it’s only score for 7.361 pts for you till someone conquers it, i.e. conquering something while you have a strong manpower advantage is less accomplishment than acquiring it while you have low manpower. If server 9 acquires a tower it would worth 14.722 pts per tick.
• all individual rewards, i.e. karma gain, gold, wexp, exp in the next tick is also modified by this reward multiplier. A player participating in an event on server 1 would only get half the rewfds a player on server 9 would get, because it is only accomplished with twice the manpower.

This normalizes every achievement by the manpower used to achieve it. The fewer people you needed to do it the better you are. Of course if the server with double the manpower gets 2 towers while the half pop server gets only one in the same time rewards are equal.

The publication of these Rewardmultiplier in the transfer dialog show the people where they can possibly get more our of their effort, i.e. on lower pop worlds.

I expect this to increase balance a lot. The transfers caused by the season rewards showed that such incentives are quite strong motivations for a change.

It was fine in the beginning when you needed only limited amounts to craft a item.

But now with the item inflation in crafting it is not, you need more than 250 silk for one damask, you need more than 250 clockwork pieces for several recipes, …

The score is a symptom yes. The scoring is still a problem but a different one (off time player are around 10 times as valuable for your match win than prime time player).

The main problem is: emptyness of maps In most matches and man-power imbalance between teams.

It is just not very funny to play football with 11 vs 3 than it is with 11 vs 11.

Let’s see how it will work on non armor/weapons, e.g. Recipes, trinkets, materials, water breather, colors, all the stuff that were rather difficult to find in the current one.

And just for interest: how many percent of your bought armor is for wearing?
I bough (parts of) an lvl 20 set for my new char, far the most armor I bough was for scrapping. Would be cool if I could search for items giving linen (or ectos or …) on opening/scrapping.

Another cool feature (especially with respect to the new collections) would be a click on a skin in the wardrobe, buy items with that skin in BLT.

But you are aware that we end-up in babylon, if everyone assigns a different meaning to a word?

Offair.2563:

Enemy dead, me alive. That is winning for me.

They never die, they just respawn

Winning depends on you and your opponent.

Take your tower example: if the attacker all fly to the Lord room and conque the tower by that, did they won? No they cheat, as they violated the agreed rules.

Take your “we bash the opponents”, if it wasn’t their goal to beat you, but it was their goal to delay you (e.g. because they are much less), such that you aren’t able to hinder their friends to take a tower. So you are fighting, then their friends tell them “we got it”, the few remainings stop fighting and you slay them. Who won?

• You? Only if they wanted to beat you, which wasn’t their goal.
• Them? Only if you had any interest keeping this tower, but if you did not, no.
• Both? Some would call it a win-win situation, ie. both won. But I only see that a marketing gag, that weakens the meaning of the term winning.
• None? I would say none, both reached their goals, but as you didn’t shared a goal and rules none won.

Most of the above make clear, that it is currently not possible to win WvW.

To win it needs a competition with agreed rules by every participant.

As all of you describe different rules, you aren’t in a competition, so no one can win.

GvcG may be a (different) competition. There are rules the guilds agree on and that determine who wins.

But yes, even without (or because there is no) competition (and therefore no win) you can have or gain a lot fun.

Liston.9708:

If you are having fun – you are winning…….

No I see fun and winning as two completely different dimensions.
Winning can be fun, but it can as well be boring.
You can have fun while winning, but some looses are very funny as well.

Wining is given by ANet, it could have been defined better, but it is as it is.
Or more general, it is defined by the rules of the game.
For sure the way it is defined, and our awareness of that, reduces possible fun on winning a lot. In fact it’s quite irrelevant that you win or loose, if that is already clearly decided by prematch manpower distribution. Which is a pity, as just playing for fun misses a challenge.

Liston.9708:

And large guilds would kick non guildies so they can all get in…..

If you require that 66% of the people on the map are needed to vote “yes” and recall that map-capacity is around 100, this does not seem likely to me. It would mean the guild has already 66+ people on map and want to bring more (very rare). You can also only kick someone you have found him on the map, so the guild has to spread out to search people they could kick (unlikely).. I would also say that no guild that want to remain part of the community can afford such rude behavior.

So no this isn’t a good argument against kicking.

Deli.1302:

Apokriphos.7042:

but the reality is that World vs World is not balanced

WvW is not supposed to be balanced.
Server stacking is a result of attrition (people leaving the game). Every game goes through this. As population gradually decreases, people look to move to servers that have more people to play with/against during their timezone. It’s got very little to do with the matchup system and there is no solution.

Wrong.

Instead of putting incentives to transfer to over-stacked servers with every season, there could be incentives to move to under-populated worlds. We know from the seasons, that these incentives have a large effect. I would be easy to turn them around.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

The developers had a specific image in mind when they put WVW together. if they feel they attained that, then you can’t say they’re denying reality, just because their view of the ideal does not coincide with yours.

Do you really want to tell me they want that most matches are stagnant or blow outs or even both and that most worlds are empty most of the time?

Do you really want to tell me seasons are made with the intended goal that everyone spends gems to transfer to the top 3 server, such that all others can be shut downed to save costs without protest because there is no one left?

That would be even worser than just denial of that reality.

No valuable change after EotM release in jan 2014. Before our urgent problems got addressed: culling, match making, even coverage a bit (activity points via blood lust, instead of pure ticker.). They all took longer then we would have liked, but communication was much better. We saw they recognized the problem and worked on it, delivers an experiment here and there.

I am happy with “sorry guys, we could not do enough for WvW as the china release took all our resources.” (Just as an example)

What I cannot accept is: “we are all happy with WvW, it is great as it is, there is not need to do anything else than fixing a ballista bug here and adding a new trap there.”

The first is better because it corresponds with the player experience. The second is just a denial of reality.

The first tells me: ok my problem get recognized, as soon as they are able to allocate resources they will likely do something. Hey I can help them buying gems such that they can pay more developers.

The second tells: my problem is not recognized, they aren’t able to see the problems, why should I buy a gems to support them in their view of the world which isn’t mine."

Last blog on how colors are assigned is from after seasons 1, where they adapted the random roll: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/wvw-matchup-variance-reduction/
it references the original post where the current match-making is introduced:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/big-changes-coming-to-wvw-matchups/

In short: on https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/wvw you can see Rating R_S and Deviation D_S for each server S.
For each Server S a random RND_S number between – 1 and + 1 is drawn and Match-rating MR_S is determined as
MR_S = R_S + (0.45 * D_S + 10) * RND_S

(I dropped the cap to 100, because it’s not reachable with the current deviations)

All servers are ordered according their MR_S
1, 4, 7,… in this order get green
2,5,8,… in this order get blue
3,6,9,… in this order get red

So yes, the strongest of T1, the strongest of T2, … are most likely all green during normal matches, but the random numbers (and the inertia of Glicko, e.g. the winner of last T1 is not necessarily rank 1) mix that up a bit.

Really worse is it during leagues: There the strongest of all leagues are always green, and the weakest of all leagues are always red. And the self-fulfilling prophecy (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/EotM-Green-is-King/4359393) origins from the 9 weeks of the last league, before the league it was more balanced.

Skill, hm, is there any skill anywhere in gw2? It is designed for 12 years old casuals, and it’s fun! I find the skill debate superfluous.

But of course there are differences in experience and discipline. Both on the commanders side as well as on the zergs side.

There are commanders that ignore arrow cards and champ-buf and there are zergs, letting the commander alone attacking the ACs or running into the buffed champs even if the commander stopped on sight.

My famous situation is, if you have INC shortly before the tower doors open. Will commander and Zerg stand to kill first the inc and than the champ? Or will the commander stand alone, while the Zerg runs to the champ? Or will commie and Zerg run to the champ. It’s always funny to see them farmed while in champ fight.

We should not do it silently, but combined with (non ANet) forum protests. Press Infos, YouTube videos, twitter, Facebook, etc.

The next season would be a good opportunity to do so. But I guess instead of a combined effort to save WvW, the slow dying will just continue.

Yeah the video is depressing.

Took the community more than half year to convice the wvw-team that match making had a design mistake, problem got recognized dec. 2012, here a summary of may 2013: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/matchups/T1-EU-24-05-2013-Elona-Vizunah-Jade-Sea/2126487

And looking at the video, they still seem to believe that WvW has no balance problem, and that their making of seasons is a good thing for the healthyness of WvW.

Yeah, I left WvW during the last season, only play EotM now. You should all do the same, such that they will finally notice the need for a change.

And Hey: you can fight in EotM, you just have to do it, and you can be in TS you just have to do it. Would have the additional advantage that the pure EotM people support improvements of WvW to get rid of the WvWlers that crashed their karma train.