Guild Wars 2

Gaile Gray.6029:

To round out this discussion:

I believe that Djinn hit the nail on the head: Disabling the animations globally took far less time than re-implementing them individually will require.

To answer Kolompi’s question (if I’m understanding it properly), designing, testing, and implementing new animations takes a long time. It was judged more prudent to disable the existing animations (and work on having them function selectively) than to reposition team members into the process of redesigning them.

And again, the animations will be back in the future.

“It was judged more prudent to disable the existing animations” because in some dialogs it was strange. Looks like a bad judgment to me.

I do wonder if the priority was a little off. They took them out because they sometimes where bad in a video (I once did hear WoodenPatatoes complain about it, never really did see many complains about it so thats likely where Anet got it from) so they take the animations out the complete game just for the few minutes you might see a video and now they have no time to fix it and put it back.

They could better have left it in there and then work on a complete solution then releasing that when it was done.

Also the walking animation is also gone and that can not be explained this way.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Devata.6589:

I would rather see having rewards that you sure you will get for completing, but you only get that the first time.

Then some RNG drops of unique items that only drop in there. (one or two) and that should be something that people would really want to have.

Tokens is yet another currency so not a big fan of that especially not as main thing. However if you get some tokens while doing it as a side thing (secondary) that helps you to get a armor set that fits with that content that would be fine.

If however the tokens will be the main thing and just a currency, you are creating yet another currency grind and we really already have more then enough (read: to much) of that in GW2.

First time drops? Tie it to an acheivement reward chest. Problem solved. Let RNG sometimes drop the items in the chest in case you want multiples but the first time you win, “Achievement Unlocked! You get a chest!”.

Still reading most of the topic

Yeah an achievement unlock would make sense for that. The way that is implemented I do not mind so much. Just for completing it you know 100% sure you get a reward and that should only be once else that reward becomes low in value. And then next to that some RNG rewards. Look to the original Molten Facility dungeon for that who had the mini and the backpack. But it could also be a blue-print for the guild-hall or a weapon or whatever.

If there would be tokens I would do that only as a side thing for something extra you can work towards if you like (like the dungeon sets) but that should not be the reason why you do the raid content. The reasons (other then liking it) should be the RNG and the 100% drop / unlock.

Guhracie.3419:

Devata, as someone who is probably one of the people the OP is complaining about, I just have to say that ANET actually did address a lot of the things that were major issues in the NPE. Not everything, but it’s certainly gone through improvements since September 9th.

Yes thats true. You did not understand me correctly. I don’t mean after the NPE but before it. There where problem and people did make suggestions but Anet did not do much with those suggestions and complains.

They however did notice the same problems and came with there own solution (The NPE) and that went kinda bad. After that they did listen to the feedback they got based on that NPE. That’s true.

If Anet however did listen to what the people had to say the NPE patch would likely not have this bad in the first place and would likely also work much better as I think it will do now.

You know, lets take an example here:

On these forums for over more then a year people have been complaining about things they disliked. Usually also saying it’s why many people left. That was then a reason for many of the fanboys to come in and tell only Anet knew if people left and those complainers where just a vocal minority and so we should not complain and so on.

One of the things complained about a lot was the whole rewarding system. I myself talked about how I think traditional quest should not have been removed but should there be next to the events.

Those would then guide players on there adventures sending them from one place to the other. Also about the rewards I said it is much more fun if you can earn one mini (usually use the mini example but you can replace that with many other things) because it drops from a specific group of mobs, another drops in a dungeon, another you can craft. About crafting I suggested fun crafts where every level you can make another fun items (think about the toys you now find in the cash-shop).

Those recipe’s would then also be all over the world. So people would have reasons to explore the world and do all these thinks in stead of map completing (what some people consider exploring) that is not more as crossing of a list of way points, vista’s, hearths and PoI’s. In fact if it was up to me they removed that as map-completion requirements. Also people now grind there crafts to 400 / 500 to then being able to make what they want.

This where some of my suggestions about it but many people have said many things about that over the last year.

What happened? Anet did not listen to that, however they did indeed see they had a hard time keeping players. So in stead of looking what players had been saying about that for over a year in the forum they created there own approach based on some numbers that in my option are partly wrong. (I really don’t believe people had a hard time doing / understanding the hearts)

They did indeed conclude people had no real intensive to / fun in the leveling process and so they came up with the NPE. That tries to address these things, but that exploded in there face. I also really wonder of much of it is really able to obtain people better. There are some positives in the NPE don’t get me wrong but there is also a lot wrong with it and i’m sure if they had listened to the complains it would have been better.

Maybe that if they see there changes don’t help they will start looking at what people have suggested (probably set up another CDI about it where there is 2 years of info about it already) but then it might already be to late.

Now my example is maybe not a good one in the way that it did not help because Anet did not do anything with it. But it does show that people did see those problems and did come up with solutions (what are likely much better as the NPE solution Anet came with).

That shows that those complainers can be very important for the future of the game.

As a side note: I do see “This is the best MMO” threads on a regular base, multiple times asking for less complaining. What I sadly however also noticed is that they usually are new players. (it’s something they then say in the thread)

You can wonder how many of those people who made those threads over a year ago are now still playing (or are now the complainers themself).

Boneheart.3561:

Devata.6589:

No P2P and F2P models put also a lot more content out during those 2 years (thats something you seem to forget) and I would also not expect every year an expansion the size of the expansions you would see with the expansions released every two years. That are the big differences. I would expect less content in between and smaller expansions then the 2 years expansions. And that is why it can go faster (an expansion per year) when they focus on that.

Has someone introduced the idea of expansions and heaps of content being released because the developer is just sitting on it? That is to say, it was developed with the “core” game, but removed for future stimulation? Mass Effect 3 is guilty of this, the template for a DLC character was already in the core game. There’s also a number of other games that, during development, developers would announce they have “day 1 DLC”.

That is a risk of the B2P model that I did address indeed. Something you get with greedy or scared (to not earn enough money) companies. No model can prevent a company from killing there own product.

However even a company that is not being greedy that uses a F2P model will have to effect it’s game because it need to increase cash-shop sales. A B2P model that is not being greedy only will need to release good expansion on a regular base. So at least there is a opportunity to have a game that is unaffected by the model. (Same for P2P btw but thats not very popular with many gamers anymore including myself)

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Every time that rush of will it drop or not.. Yes that makes doing the dungeon 25 times much more fun ten doing it 25 times seeing your gold slowly go up and it also makes the reward feel much more rewarding. (that is what I said about it giving more value to the item)

Thing is you actually have both. Anything that drops gold can drop the best rewards in the game as well.

No I don’t and no it does not work that way.

If I had that same feeling I would not talk about it here. It’s clear you feel different about it and can’t understand how it works / is / feels for those people that do complain about this so just take my word for it.. or don’t.

We tried to explain it to you multiple times and you simply don’t get it. Thats fine. I don’t get while some people like to do brainless zerg content to grind gold to then buy rewards and they probably won’t be able to explain it to me. But I do acknowledge some people do like that.

But trust me, many people do feel the way I and phys (in the other thread) explained it to you and that is because of the way the reward-system works in GW2. Whether you see it or not and whether you acknowledge that or not.

And without you seeing this it’s also useless to really react to your other reply’s. I mean in one of them you even say “Anet did everything right to eliminate grind.” while for many this is a very very grindy game (because of the thing we explained to you but you don’t get), for me it’s the most grindy game I ever played and we probably played some of the same MMO’s like WoW (just a guess). Because you base your hole reply on such premise that is simply untrue (for many gamers, not for you) then it’s also useless to really go into those reply’s that any further. I would then only repaid my explanation another time and you would not get it another time.

Daala.4258:

I think the general consensus to the accesibility of raiding is in its flexibility. A lot of good ideas were proposed and all (more or less) revolve around dividing raid instance into “paths” or “shards” that will require 2-5 man teams. Multiply team numbers by number of shards and you got your max raid size. This flexibility allows small raid parties complete only portion of all paths and receive reward scaled to number of shards completed.

But can you still consider 2 / 5 people a raid? Personally I think there should simply be multiple different raid content. some for 10, some for 15, some for 20 and some for 25. If you try to use scaling and more of that sort tricks you end of with something they to easy for bigger groups and then only gets grinded as an easy way of loot. You would really want to prevent to make another brainless zerg thing.

Yargesh.4965:

First I enjoy the large organised content of wurm and teq.
Second the specific rewards need to get out of RNG, I have a couple of hundred teq with no specific ascended drop and got my first wurm chest after 160. Others have nine, go to tokens like the dungeons.
Third is tricky, guilds and guild associations need to be able to get in together without the mess it is now. The tricky bit is assuring it does not close the door to non guild players.
Lastly raids should I think be a range of player numbers rather than scaling. That is recommended/capped at 20, 50, etc.

Tokens as main way of rewarding is boring. Maybe make the drop-rate a little more doable.

That everything in this game already works using currencies is the biggest problem GW2 has with rewards.

Kahrgan.7401:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

- Accessibility.
- Playing to the strengths of existing GW2 core functionality.

The rewards should be less RNG oriented, and more token oriented with large goals and also smaller / lower cost items when you have completed the large goals.

I would rather see having rewards that you sure you will get for completing, but you only get that the first time.

Then some RNG drops of unique items that only drop in there. (one or two) and that should be something that people would really want to have.

Tokens is yet another currency so not a big fan of that especially not as main thing. However if you get some tokens while doing it as a side thing (secondary) that helps you to get a armor set that fits with that content that would be fine.

If however the tokens will be the main thing and just a currency, you are creating yet another currency grind and we really already have more then enough (read: to much) of that in GW2.

Proposal Overview
Structuring / designing RAID dungeons in a way that they are fun and engaging to do.

Goal of Proposal
Fun content and preventing the next zerg-content.

Proposal Functionality
If you ask people what a raid-dungeon should be about the answer usually is: A dungeon for a bigger group that is very hard and takes very long.

Well I would start with removing the last element. A Raid dungeon does not have to be very long. A 20 min raid dungeon could also be fun and I think the best you could have is raids.

Of course you need a bigger group then the 5. I think it’s something between 10 and 25 for a game like GW2.

It should also be hard but not because there are a lot of mobs or because bosses are very strong (do much damage and have much HP) no they should be hard because of good mechanics and good or smart AI.

What is also important is to require many roles. Lack of real roles have always been a problem in GW2 dungeons turning much of the dungeon in to just DPS spam but for raid-dungeons this is ever more important because else it it will become just another zerg fest where everybody presses some buttons.

When I talk about roles I don’t just talk about the trinity. That are 3 specific roles. But think of any type of roles. A pet role (rangers) a portal role (mesmers) a invisibility role and also maybe heal and tank roles. Ranged roles, close combat roles. But even something like to destroy ice you need fire, to destroy fire you need water and so on.

Use mechanics in the dungeons that require all these roles. Am not afraid to split the group up.

Require communication. Make it hard because of mechanics, (usually implementing those roles) not because the amount of mobs or because of the damage and the HO from the bosses.

An example to require communication could for be that you can’t fight a boss directly but we go power ranger style. Having to control some huge robot. Imagine if you need 15 people to control it, everybody moving different parts of that robot. Then you are requiring team-play and communication to kill the boss in stead of just zerging him.

And then also make it rewarding.. Not with gold but with awesome unique rewards.

Associated Risks
People complaining it’s to hard because the are used to easy content.

Only want to add that there have been given multiple ways to give smaller and bigger guilds the opportunity to having and keep working on there guild-hall.

The scaling was however the worst imho and there where many talks about that form people who disliked that idea.

zenleto.6179:

Devata.6589:

Yargesh.4965:

Novuake.2691:

And here is me, my first GW Halloween, enjoying myself…

Stop complaining!

You can click on the name and see the persons post history. You will find that the ones with huge long posts have huge long posts for in some cases two years. Nothing has changed in their huge long posts in that whole time.

So those people are not just complaining to complain but have specifics concerns to keep talking about. Until they give up, don’t care or Anet fixes it.

It’s called having an obsession. It’s very pretty.

Thats of course also a way to try and dismiss everything. It does not help anything but heey it might give you a good feeling.

Yargesh.4965:

Novuake.2691:

And here is me, my first GW Halloween, enjoying myself…

Stop complaining!

You can click on the name and see the persons post history. You will find that the ones with huge long posts have huge long posts for in some cases two years. Nothing has changed in their huge long posts in that whole time.

So those people are not just complaining to complain but have specifics concerns to keep talking about. Until they give up, don’t care or Anet fixes it.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

You earned 4 mini’s? What 4 exactly? 3 of the ones I referred to are only available in the cash-shop.

For someone who specifically loves to go after minis how can you not know there are 4 minis you can earn in this release?

Earned Mini Candy Corn Ghoulemental by completing the tricks and treat collection
Mini Zuzu, the Cat of Darkness dropped from a Trick or treat bag.

Mini Ghost Carlotta and Mini Bloody Prince Thorn I got enough candy corn and skulls/fangs that I can (and will) buy by the end of the event if they dont drop.

I also mentioned this years skins.

“For the 2012 skins you are grinding tickets (thats a currency) so no you are not working directly towards it. Like I said before, who are you fooling.”
and how do you get the tickets (just to be on the same page we’re talking about shiny foil candy wrapper here not black lion tickets) ? By playing absolutely any halloween content. You dont have to farm gold and buy the tickets if you dont want to. just play the content you want. Also for accuracy’s sake those arent technically currency cause they dont buy you anything, they’re technically tokens.

Devata.6589:

I never said you had to get them all. That would also not be the case if you worked directly towards them.. what you are not doing, you are grinding currency to get most of them.

I am playing content to get them I am not grinding anything. If there were 0 rewards what so ever I’d still use these brief 2 weeks we get of halloween to play as much of the tower, lunatic inquisition and the labyrinth. Does it matter that zuzu might drop from any monster in the labyrinth or that mob drops a bag that in turn can drop zuzu ? why having no intermediary bag makes it working directly towards but somehow the bag makes indirect? As for buying it directly I see it if you do a good enough effort and lady luck doesnt smile on you, you’d have earned it through your effort rather then through your luck. Why is that bad?

Mini Ghost Carlotta and Mini Bloody Prince Thorn are from last year.

I talked about the Candy Corn Ghoulemental, Zuzu, Gwynefyrdd and the 3 chas-shop mini’s. Oow my love for things like mini’s does not exist anymore.. Not in GW2 because they are all just grinding gold.. well most are. What I said is that I did like to do that in other mmo’s. You know where you do earn them with specific content.

No not by playing just some content. By grinding bags and if you do not do the stuff that rewards the best you end up with the least amount of those tickets (Candy wrappers yes) meaning your have a much lower change of it.

But then there is a problem, the content I do like to do is something where I can obtain something directly. And thats not really here is it. I did all my Halloween stuff and have 3 of those wrappers. In addition also this is not a direct way of earning those weapons. Now if those weapons had a rare but reasonable drop-rate in the Halloween dungeon I would likely still be doing that because I liked it.

Phys explained why it matters. Maybe his explanation works better for you?

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

… Lots of stuff I am skipping over cause its already been discussed many multiple of times but if you want me to reply to something specifically let me know not ignoring or avoiding just dont wanna get locked in a debate circle …

Let me give the example why it’s the worst option. Let’s say you want a specific skin in this item that drops from a champion bag at an extremely low rate. Then working directly working towards it is by farming those bags. But you likely have earned to gold to buy it by doing so before the item drops. So going for that item is the worst way.

Champion bag skins are a bit of a catch 22 true. Getting the item directly is farming just as much as getting the gold for it. But luckly we have the 3rd option, the 3rd option I’ve been advocating so much, currency as it is intended to be. Your nice weapons skin that drops from the champion bag costs dont know say 20g. You currently have 200 gold but we’re not going to outright buy it that would be boring. We’re going to earn 20g and buy it once we have 220g. I personally am a dynamic events person so I am going with playing in the open world. Strickly speaking we need 400 dynamic events to earn 20g but we can cut that down as until we earn out skin we’re going to sell stuff we earn even though generally I keep the mats for my crafting. That will probably cut the events needed by about 1/3 and not counting the mats you gather along the way and sell. All in all we’ll need approximately 280 events. Will do close to 25 events per day and it will take me 2 weeks to earn that 20g and buy that skin. I may take a break do a dungeon, a fractal may a few jumping puzzles and why not perhaps try to kill a couple of champions and see if I Get lucky and it drops. At the end of the day whatever i’ll still get closer. At the end of 2 weeks I’ll be happy because I did an effort and it feels I earn the skin. I still played the stuff I would have played had I not set my eyes on that skin. I didnt have to do any mindless grinding. I got the skin I wanted.

Sure if I farmed I could have got that skin in 2 – 3hrs instead of 2 weeks but what would that have got me? since I like open world stuff after I got the skin by farming gold now that I dont have a reward to strive for I will spend the next 2 weeks doing open world stuff with my new skin wishing I could earn my skin doing open world stuff rather then boring gold farms probably which ironically I already could do!

So your solution to the currency grind is… currency grind?

Oow and the stuff I like to do like JP’s don’t earn me a lot of money. What I also like is WvW but then mainly staying in a keep upgrading it and defending it. Running with the zerg would make me money, upgrading and defending a keep cost me money. The other thing I like to do is going directly after those rewards but we already concluded that was not really possible (in this case).

is playing 2 weeks of what you like doing really a grind?

of course you can go directly after the reward like I already explained a billion times but going after rewards directly that arent a common drop is always super grindy in absolutely any game.

If you love doing it then go on nothing wrong with that. I though your issue was primary with grind. If luck doesnt smile upon you in a few hours you can always buy it with the money you make while going directly after the reward, win/win

the thing that you are totally missing is the distaste a person might feel for buying something.

You know how people say there is a different feeling from fishing up your dinner versus buying it in a store?
Or how some people enjoy doing home improvements themselves?

Satisfaction from a job well done, or prizes from winning a competition, finding something valuable hidden in an obscure place. These are the feelings some people are looking for in an adventure game. And for many items in this game, that is not an effecient means of achieving anything.

in fact very often, you could not hunt/obtain/earn something directly if you tried. Even in those cases, it is generally the worst method of achieving it.

he wants an adventure with rewards for the adventure. Not a paycheck where he buys everything.

All that would really have to change for him is have the primary method of obtaining many good/interesting items be specific tasks/enemies/places etc. They could be sold after that, but he would know the best way to get anything would be to hunt it, and gold would be a secondary way. Which is now often the opposite.

This indeed.

Problem is that Galen seems to believe (or makes himself believe?) that many items are really obtainable directly in that way in GW2. While thats of course not the case.

Galen Grey.4709:

is playing 2 weeks of what you like doing really a grind?

of course you can go directly after the reward like I already explained a billion times but going after rewards directly that arent a common drop is always super grindy in absolutely any game.

If you love doing it then go on nothing wrong with that. I though your issue was primary with grind. If luck doesnt smile upon you in a few hours you can always buy it with the money you make while going directly after the reward, win/win

“of course you can go directly after the reward like I” This is factually wrong for all items in the cash-shop, it’s also factually wrong for all items you can only buy from a vendor for some currency and factually correct but realistically still wrong for the items that do drop in a very general way (like in loot bags dropped by many many mobs) but with a extremely, extremely low drop-rate. In general these items still drop a lot because they drop on so many mobs (that then get farmed by so many people).

When the item would have a higher drop-rate (still rare) but only drop by one specific mob / boss/ content in one place then the total number of drops in the world would still be the same, likely even less then now. However because you can focus on that specific content you can increase the change it drops for you to nearly 100%. So thats where you are factually right, but realistically wrong. Because you can then not in a realistically way work towards it.

A lot items are distributed in the cash-shop and a lot of item are distributed as vendor only sales and a lot of items are distributed with the general drop by many mobs, usually in bags but a very very very low droprate.

And then there are of course the items that do drop from specific content.

Only for that last one you can factually and realistically work directly for them in the game.

The total number of rewards in the game that are rewarded in this last way is however much lower as the other 3 ways.

I don’t know if you don’t want to get this (and so are fooling yourself) or you really don’t get this. Anyway, it’s the last time I explained it to you.

“is playing 2 weeks of what you like doing really a grind?” I would love to do would for example be the Halloween 2012 dungeon that would have a rare (but obtainable) drop-rate for one of the Halloween skins. Like I said.. what I like to do is work directly towards content what is not an option for most things as I just explained again.

Oow and I have never earned the gold I would need to buy those items. Thats likely because the people who do the most rewarding gold grind things will drive up the price to high for people who do not do that. Since I tent to not like those things I never make that amount of gold.
JP’s are not that rewarding and defending and upgrading a keep only cost me money.
But that’s just a side note.

Novuake.2691:

And here is me, my first GW Halloween, enjoying myself…

Stop complaining!

If people don’t address negative things (and Anet does not fix them) you might not be enjoying your second Halloween. So be happy that people who are willing to look into the future do.

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

So thats not an unfounded insinuations that is a fact where the currency-grind is there directly because of the cash-shop.

Actually it is still a matter of opinion. Apply that same exact example to someone else and there may be no currency grind. If there is no currency grind then it is not there directly because of the cash shop.

The only way to get that item ingame is to grind a currency. How could that not be factual true for another person? It’s factual true for the game.

It is not grind for some people.

Lol.. You need to collect money for it in stead of being able to earn it direly in the game. This better for you?

IndigoSundown.5419:

Devata.6589:

~

None of which matters. I made a general post, not addressed to you specifically, and you responded. In that post and since, you have clearly failed to respond to most of the points I’ve made.

So, I’ll give it to you one more time — but don’t expect me to respond if you continue to talk about things other than what I posted.

Here it is, as simply as possible.

• Many items are available in GW2 via gold, either through the cash shop or the TP.
• The design intent behind this availability is clearly to make these items accessible to anyone who wants them.
• The design intent is clearly not to generate the maximum amount of sales — because there would clearly be more gem sales if players could not exchange gold for gems.

That’s it. As to your points, I know you’d rather they sold expansions and put everything that’s in the gem store into the game instead. That’s not relevant to the point you decided to argue in the first place.

I very much addressed your answer. You simply didn’t like my answers. Thats something else.

" * Many items are available in GW2 via gold, either through the cash shop or the TP."
Yeah that was my complain remember. About how everything (thats a hyberbole) is a gold-grind.

" * The design intent behind this availability is clearly to make these items accessible to anyone who wants them."
Lol, I am going to quote you as an answer.
“However, what I do post in opposition to is when you venture into hypotheses about ANet’s motives. "

" * The design intent is clearly not to generate the maximum amount of sales — because there would clearly be more gem sales if players could not exchange gold for gems."

On what do you base that?
The fact that you can convert money both ways means also means money becomes more important what could stimulate the gems sales to convert to gold. In addition, not all people who convert gold to gems would pay for anything they now get with real cash.
Lastly it’s also marketing technical interesting. They get away with more cash-shop things by pointing to the "heey you can convert gold to gems.” As they for example use as an excuse for selling the story episodes by gems. So there are multiple marketing technical (read financial) benefits of doing that.

If we believe you the negatives (people who now convert gold to gems but would else have spend money) out-way those. Where is your proof of that? It’s just an assumption you are stating as a fact here.

What we can conclude as a fact is that with no regular expansions and the game being over 2 years old the cash-shop is the main source of income and so we can even conclude that that means they do look into increasing profit for that. It’s not so strange to then think that effects the game. Whether the gold grind in this game is part of that I can indeed not proof.

“That’s not relevant to the point you decided to argue in the first place.”
There where multiple points, so i’m not sure what point you are referring to. However if I refer to the same post where I did bring this up I only stated it as a side note. Because the one does effect the other. (and so is relevant) Like I just said.. They are trying to maximize gem-sales and that does effect the games in some ways including making it a more gold grindy game. Thats a fact because if you want any item they put in the cash-shop (what they do with many items because of the cash-shop focus) the only ingame way to get it is to grind gold. So I addressed that because it’s relevant for that.

Yeah there is a type of people who would complain about all that sort of things. But thats not a good reason to remove it and you should never have a person like that making such decisions in your company.

Also need the original female walking animation back. How long has that been gone now? A year?

John Smith.4610:

2.5: “Add secondary reward mechanisms (ie. token based system) alongside the primary RNG system; allow progress to be made even when you don’t get the result you want.”

This was done fairly good in SAB. The dungeon tokens where a good option as having that to the side (secondary). However it was not a secondary it was the main thing as currencies are the main thing in GW2 in general.

No special item that was rewarded for completing a dungeon and one or two special drops (RNG) in there. SAB had that RNG drop + tokens as secondary (while rewarding the same items.. only bad thing about it) and the Molten dungeon had that as well. Thats partly why they where so popular.

However in GW2 almost everything is driving by currency, mainly by gold but also by some other currencies (like the dungeon tokens or now the candy corn) and that is just extremely boring.

Slowly seeing that number going up is not as exiting as every time you do that content that rush of ‘will it drop’.

So in stead of all those currency (you refer to them as tokens) as main way to obtain it, have it as a side (indeed secondary) thing to obtain some nice things while your doing it. But your main rewards should be a guaranteed drop for completing it and a few RNG drops.. All linked to specific content so if I want item X I do not grind grind gind gold (or another currency) like it is now for 90% of the content but I do that specific content (multiple times for the RNG stuff) to obtain it. That is fun.

Next item sends me to other content and so on.

Of course there is a problem that all those cash-shop item are only obtainable for gold or cash meaning another gold grind. Would you be able to get everything in game from specific content (and so gold would become less interesting) there would be less interest of buying gold. But for the game itself it would be much better.

Meanwhile you can then reduce the gold reward. play for the goods, not for the currency. Going for currency is a non fun job, going for the goods is a fun game.

So what you describe there is indeed good, however it’s simply not how it works in the game. Currency is the primary system in GW2.

Scoundrel.2139:

I’m all for locking things behind a skill wall. But not behind an RNG wall. Can’t jump up the tower? Then no. Can’t kill Liadri? Then no. That type of thing.

I think it’s time for a breather til they get their act together in a year or so.

I think you will always need RNG to some extent in an MMO. The question is more how you do it.

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

So thats not an unfounded insinuations that is a fact where the currency-grind is there directly because of the cash-shop.

Actually it is still a matter of opinion. Apply that same exact example to someone else and there may be no currency grind. If there is no currency grind then it is not there directly because of the cash shop.

The only way to get that item ingame is to grind a currency. How could that not be factual true for another person? It’s factual true for the game.

Relshdan.6854:

Devata.6589:

Relshdan.6854:

lordkrall.7241:

….The Labyrinth available right now is a rather good way to get rather much money….

this.

it’s rewarding and isn’t rng-based………you get tons of bags (and mats). you get more than enough candy corn to convert them to “cobs” and buy the new items that the halloween vendor sells.

there will always be some level of rng “gambling” in the gem store/game……they need to make RL money (some people get a thrill out of gambling). it’s only lame when that is the way most of the event rewards are earned.

that isn’t the case here. there are plenty of non-rng rewards that are earned by playing the game.

It’s still just grinding for currency.

which has nothing to do with “rng-gambing”….or the thread topic. thanks for nothing.

But it is what lordkrall talked about where you reacted on.

Also getting the items from those bags (The two mini’s that can drop and the tickets for the 2012 Halloween skins) are still gables. Like I did say before, because of the high drop-rate of the bag you get a average that sort of hides the gable but it’s still there.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Devata.6589:

Them making everything thats also in the game a gold grind to earn cash as motive I can not prove and so you can consider unfounded insinuations or one may name it common sense.

Oh, what about all the things that people complain about being RNG based? Things like Teq and TT drops, TA/AP drops, and all of the weapon skins from champ bags. Everything you want may be in the TP or the gem store, but it does not mean everything is.

But lets then just take a factual example.

They put a mini in the cash-shop (they do that with many mini’s thats a fact). How can I then get it? There are only 2 options. Buy it with cash or grind gold to then buy it (another fact). So thats not an unfounded insinuations that is a fact where the currency-grind is there directly because of the cash-shop.

So a game that is monetized via a cash shop puts things for sale in the cash shop. Oh my, how evil! They’re trying to make money to keep the game and company afloat!

For the record, I didn’t say the insinuation was that there were things in the gem store, I said it was that insinuation you’re making is that the gem store is just a cash grab. If it were just a cash grab there would be no option to get these things by accumulating gold.

You don’t want to play the game to get gold? Don’t. You want to get a mini by doing piece of content X over and over again? Fine, pick content you like and do it over and over again. Once you determine the gold yield, you won’t even have to deal with the evils of RNG.

I know you’d prefer they monetize by box sales of expansions only. Not going to happen. Even the sub games have cash shops, now. The days of games with no cash shop are gone, kaput, finito. You’re … (I was going to say wasting your breath, but I guess in this case it’s ablating your keyboard).

“So a game that is monetized via a cash shop puts things for sale in the cash shop. Oh my, how evil! They’re trying to make money to keep the game and company afloat!”

Where did I say them trying to make money is a bad thing? I just say I don’t like the cash-shop approach because of some of the effects of what I just showed you one using purely facts.

I don’t say.. don’t make money, I say, make money in another way. But you know that as you end your post with that.

I am not sure what you mean with ‘just a cash-grab’ or where I did say that. They use the cash-shop to make money and it effects the game in a specific way. A way I consider bad and in fact a way many people seem to consider bad looking at the complains about the grind. What I just showed how at least partially that is factually linked to to cash-shop.

And there is a difference between using the cash-shop to earn your money and having a cash-shop.

The idea that making money with box-sales if over seems to be a little strange. It is still the most used way for most games. It’s just not done a lot in MMO’s but then again that has never been the case and there was a time (just a few years ago) nobody believed in F2P games (read.. cash-shops) while now that is the standard for MMO’s so who says box-sales won’t be the standard for mmo’s in the future?

The fact that the cash-shop way is the most popular at this moment does not stop me from going against it. If it’s bad, it’s bad and I will say it’s bad even if the whole world world would say it was good. I’m not somebody who just go’s with the flow of the masses. Anyway, luckily there are many people who dislike it. Many of them did come to GW2 because it was sold as B2P and had a good name for it’s B2P model with GW1.

GW2 would not have existed where it for GW1 using that model. It is what made them big.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Win/win for you. Not so much for me. I’d much rather not have to wait a year between updates, large or small. I enjoyed the two-week cadence; I wish they would bring that back. Maybe next year, a year without China release, will see a return to that cadence.

Also, even though I’m in the minority, I wish they would bring back the less-permanent releases of Season One. I’m not too fond of Season Two’s offerings. /shrug

Well do you remember how the started the LS. There suddenly where some refugee’s, then there where some signs we could set up. Also some other small changes. I would not mind them using that sort of stuff. It should then not have any rewards or achievements linked to them but just some very small changes that do drive a story one expansion to the other.

The temporary nature was bad because people where forced to do it now or miss out on the rewards and achievements. But if there are no rewards or achievements, just some small patches that drive a story that would be fine.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Devata.6589:

It is the subject. Having currency as the only really viable option is what makes everything such a boring gold grind. That is what I complained about.

Then you come and tell how great it is to buy it with gold because then you can do whatever you like to earn it.

Then I say that as long as those items are not account bound you still have that option while you also have the option to work directly towards it.

OK, simpler questions. Are you upset about having to spend gold to get some rewards, or not? If you are, how would allowing more items that can be gotten via gold (by removing Account Bound) help? And, for the record, I never said being able to get many items via gold was great, I said it’s an aspect of game design that makes them more accessible.

I don’t kitten about things being attainable for gold I ‘kitten’ about that being the only really viable option making everything a gold-grind.

Is that so hard to understand?

It’s not hard to understand the complaint at all.

You are right thats it’s likely linked to the gem-store yeah.

What is “it?” Pronouns need antecedents in order for your sentences to be understood. I’ve no clue what I’m supposed to have said.

But the fact is that a lot of people dislike the currency grind grind grind in this game to earn the rewards. If you don’t want to or can’t see that, that’s then maybe your GW2 bias?

I am not blind and can understand English, so I can readily see the dislike. I’m not commenting about the dislike — which is a feeling. I’m commenting about the accusations that everything in the game is a cash grab — which is a ludicrous accusation.

(Or are all those other people complaining about that (see for example maddoctor’s post before me) also having a anti-cash-shop bias?)

I have not read enough of maddoctor’s posts to determine whether s/he is demonstrating bias. I know you are.

Also consider I am not against these things because I dislike the cash-shop focus but I dislike the cash-shop focus because it results in these sorts of things that I dislike.

I have no issue with your dislikes and frankly could care less whether the chicken or the egg came first. I have an opinion about your dislikes, but I won’t share that.

I have no issue with you asking for a paid expansion business model. I don’t think ANet will switch business models any more than I think I’ll get what I want. However, you’re free to ask.

However, what I do post in opposition to is when you venture into hypotheses about ANet’s motives. Stay away from the unfounded insinuations about cash grabs and you won’t hear from me.

Them making everything thats also in the game a gold grind to earn cash as motive I can not prove and so you can consider unfounded insinuations or one may name it common sense.

But lets then just take a factual example.

They put a mini in the cash-shop (they do that with many mini’s thats a fact). How can I then get it? There are only 2 options. Buy it with cash or grind gold to then buy it (another fact). So thats not an unfounded insinuations that is a fact where the currency-grind is there directly because of the cash-shop.

Relshdan.6854:

lordkrall.7241:

….The Labyrinth available right now is a rather good way to get rather much money….

this.

it’s rewarding and isn’t rng-based………you get tons of bags (and mats). you get more than enough candy corn to convert them to “cobs” and buy the new items that the halloween vendor sells.

there will always be some level of rng “gambling” in the gem store/game……they need to make RL money (some people get a thrill out of gambling). it’s only lame when that is the way most of the event rewards are earned.

that isn’t the case here. there are plenty of non-rng rewards that are earned by playing the game.

It’s still just grinding for currency.

Belenwyn.8674:

Devata.6589:

But isn’t the PS supposed to be an optional story. Personally I still have not completed the PS one any of my characters because I don’t care so much for that story.

The PS is an optional story like the story of the LW as well. You can skip it if you do not enjoy it.

Yeah what I mean is you should then not put all your attention into that.

“The small team needs simply more time the design all the stuff.”

With having an expansion once a year we give them exactly that. More time for better content and in addition we also pay for it so they can earn money that way in stead of the current way. win win.

lordhelmos.7623:

I like all people would like to see an expansion to the world of Guildwars 2, however the game model is so much different than anything that came before it.

Guildwars 2 works off of dynamic events -to the point where the event system has completely overtaken traditional leveling. In order for events to work, they require people. If zones were to die off due to population migration to new content, some events might be impossible to complete.

I think that this is why the game pushed for living story instead of traditional expansions. I think that the addition of huge new land masses and especially instanced content, can actually do a large amount of damage to the game.

Living story was an attempt to keep the game world interesting without splitting the playerbase too thinly over so much content that existing events and world areas completely break. Living story was created to prevent tequatl from becoming impossible, to prevent the Shatterer from never dropping down because no one is doing the meta event, etc.

I think the real challenge of Guildwars 2 is “expanding” the game without completely murdering the sensitive web of events that currently exists or killing player leveling zones.

To me, this is truthfully why we have seen no major expansions and instead get rotating temporary events for existing zones that decrease in popularity. This keeps the game world active and healthy. I can’t think of any other game where you could go into the darkest corner of any map and still find a name tag.

I think as a playerbase, instead of harping on why the game can’t traditionally expand, we should offer some constructive feedback on how to expand Guildwars 2 without the game killing itself.

Feel free to post your ideas!

“Guildwars 2 works off of dynamic events -to the point where the event system has completely overtaken traditional leveling.” I would love to see them also putting traditional quest in an expansion next to events because they add something to the game next to events. It’s not that I think events are bad, they are good but are especially good next to events and are can not simply be replaced by them as Anet did try.

Maybe that can then help. New land where we have a nice mix of events and quest and also lots of things to do in the game. Little quest that reward mini’s and so on. A land where the big story is not so important but the little stories of the NPC’s are important sending you form the one adventure into the other adventure (quest chains). No grinding. Just new land that gives new opportunities.

Belenwyn.8674:

Fernling.1729:

They have released a lot of the content type that would generally be included in an expansion, it’s the quantity that is in question here. In my opinion, the living story is nowhere close to the amount of quantity that I would expect from an expansion.

In regard to the quantity I can agree with you. In my eyes the reason lies in the currently insufficient support of the LW team by other content teams. The LW itself does a very good job with season 2. The LW is now an evolved Personal Story with much more content and replayabilty. But as the Personal Story alone does not provide the whole spectrum of content the LW can’t either. PS and LW are rah´ther the rted threads guiding the player through the existing content and provide the back story for the introduction of the new content. At the moment we have mostly LW alone.

Sometimes I have the feeling the LW team has to develop the LW plus the content delivered via LW. This will not work for sure. The LW team is not big enough for this.

But isn’t the PS supposed to be an optional story. Personally I still have not completed the PS one any of my characters because I don’t care so much for that story.

saalle.4623:

I like LS,i dont need to defend anything.LS is content that has nothing to do with feature patches.All your “expansion” content can be added through patches so there is no reason to give up from LS and go to standard static boring expansion world.If you want to complain then complain on feature patches not LS.

Oow I believe it can be done that way (while I would still be against it because of the way they then monetize the game). It’s just that Anet proved they where not able to do that. Not within the time there competitors do it at least.

Why complain about the feature patch. Some things in them where bad but overall I had more fun after feature patches and during LS breaks then during LS patches. But thats of course personal.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Devata.6589:

IndigoSundown.5419:

The design intent of making things accessible via gold is to allow players to play any content they want and sooner or later get items they want.

If that was the goal simply making many of the items not account bound but still having them in the game behind specific content would do the trick. They would still end up on the TP while in less quantities and more expensive. But it would be an alternative way to get them. So no it looks more like the design intent is more gem sales.

Stick to a subject, please. You kitten about things being attainable for gold, then when I talk about that, you respond by kittening about stuff being account bound. If some of the account bound stuff was sellable, then you’d need more gold in order to buy them. Holy circular argument, Batman!

Also, many Account Bound items are earned in game. So, your “point” is just another example of your anti-gem store bias.

It is the subject. Having currency as the only really viable option is what makes everything such a boring gold grind. That is what I complained about.

Then you come and tell how great it is to buy it with gold because then you can do whatever you like to earn it.

Then I say that as long as those items are not account bound you still have that option while you also have the option to work directly towards it.

I don’t kitten about things being attainable for gold I ‘kitten’ about that being the only really viable option making everything a gold-grind.

Is that so hard to understand?

You are right thats it’s likely linked to the gem-store yeah. But the fact is that a lot of people dislike the crrency grind grind grind in this game to earn the rewards. If you don’t want to or can’t see that, that’s then maybe your GW2 bias? (Or are all those other people complaining about that (see for example maddoctor’s post before me) also having a anti-cash-shop bias?)

Also consider I am not against these things because I dislike the cash-shop focus but I dislike the cash-shop focus because it results in these sorts of things that I dislike.

Belenwyn.8674:

Devata.6589:

Belenwyn.8674:

Content we normally see in an expansion? Let me see what the LW system brought us.

• new main story
• new maps
• new world bosses
• new dungeons/fractals
• new tier of gear
• new tier for professions
• new recipes
• new armor skins
• new stat combinations
• new runes and sigils
• new weapon skins
• new skills
• new mini games

It is quite a long list and I forgot some aspects (like new traits etc) for sure. These are all things you normally see in an expansion (pack). What we can discuss is the quantity of some points. But they are all present and delivered by the LW. Since we are in the middle of the current expansion cycle we can expect some more batches shipped to us.

You mix up content and content type. (One map is not the same content as 10 maps but it is all the same content type) Yes most of the content type you see in an expansion has been added but not most of the content because for that quantity is just as important.

What you normally see in an expansion is about 12 maps (usually a new continent and opening some new maps in the existing continent). All filled with stuff to do like (quest / events and so on.

You would see a whole new skill line to go for or a new profession. Or a race, or a combo of these.

You would see multiple new dungeons,

You would also see a completely new type of content a lot of the time.

Content for me includes type and amount. For you it seems it is only the amount.

No both. See my example. It was you who came with the list of different types to ‘proof’ the cpntent was there, not me.

IndigoSundown.5419:

The design intent of making things accessible via gold is to allow players to play any content they want and sooner or later get items they want.

If that was the goal simply making many of the items not account bound but still having them in the game behind specific content would do the trick. They would still end up on the TP while in less quantities and more expensive. But it would be an alternative way to get them. So no it looks more like the design intent is more gem sales.

Nonetheless, the current approach isn’t very fun. And that there is some content that is to hard for you to get.. Well if they put in all rewards like that, everybody walks against something like that. Managing to then do it anyway is then only extra rewarding. And maybe if people are not good enough to get something they shouldn’t get it. That also adds value / prestige to an item.

SAB did do that very well. (Just as the original Molten Alliance dungeon) and I don’t think it’s a coincident they where both so popular.

Belenwyn.8674:

Content we normally see in an expansion? Let me see what the LW system brought us.

• new main story
• new maps
• new world bosses
• new dungeons/fractals
• new tier of gear
• new tier for professions
• new recipes
• new armor skins
• new stat combinations
• new runes and sigils
• new weapon skins
• new skills
• new mini games

It is quite a long list and I forgot some aspects (like new traits etc) for sure. These are all things you normally see in an expansion (pack). What we can discuss is the quantity of some points. But they are all present and delivered by the LW. Since we are in the middle of the current expansion cycle we can expect some more batches shipped to us.

You mix up content and content type. (One map is not the same content as 10 maps but it is all the same content type) Yes most of the content type you see in an expansion has been added but not most of the content because for that quantity is just as important.

What you normally see in an expansion is about 12 maps (usually a new continent and opening some new maps in the existing continent). All filled with stuff to do like (quest / events and so on.

You would see a whole new skill line to go for or a new profession. Or a race, or a combo of these.

You would see multiple new dungeons,

You would also see a completely new type of content a lot of the time.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

I always prefer and do go after rewards directly and many times I get them. I dont know why you who advocate going for stuff directly are having so many issues.

Lol who are you trying to fool here? Yourself?

How am I fooling myself. Thats what I do and I enjoy the game!

Galen Grey.4709:

“They could have also just played the game and earn the rewards. Thats what I did and already nearly got all I need to get all I want. "

Devata.6589:

Funny, I have been playing this game since pre-release but for most I would like going directly for it was not an option.

Let’s see, what in the Halloween patch can you work directly towards without grinding a currency. The weapon skins? No.

Yep Like I said “If I could get the gift of souls to drop I’d be the most happy Gw2 player ever but I am not spending money to increase my chances.” that is working towards the weapon skin. I am sure 99% it will not drop but I dont care If it doesnt drop now no problem I will just wait to get my 100 charged lodestones it will take a while cause I dont run COE much but it will happen eventually, I will have the crossing.

Devata.6589:

The mini’s? Of the 6 mini’s? Available 1 of them? Still not with specific content but with achievements. The skin you get in the JP Yes. The Toy? No. Of the two availible outfits you can earn one with the achievements (well yearn earn currency lol with it and then you can buy it). The weapon skins from 2012? no.

You must be very lucky if those items you wanted where all available to work towards directly.

By the end of this halloween I will have earned 4 minis doing nothing more then playing the halloween event. If I am lucky I will also have the other 5th one drop on me but thats asking 2 much.

What toy?

Would it really be better if the achievement gave you the outfit directly? and if you hated it and wanted the minis instead what then?

as for the 2012 weapon skins its too early to say. I guess you are aware they’re in a lottery that skritt is running. I got 7 tickets so far drop on me. Maybe it will be enough to get one or maybe not. To be honest the only halloween skin that interests me is the crossing. The chainsaw greatsword and the scyte I’d use but will not loose any sleep if I dont get them. The rest I’d sell and use the income to increase my progress towards the crossing.

So yeah I doing direct progress towards all the stuff you mentioned without going through gold at all. I am 100% sure I will not manage everything but so what ? what would be the value of stuff if you can earn absolutely everything?

You earned 4 mini’s? What 4 exactly? 3 of the ones I referred to are only available in the cash-shop.

The riding broom toy. I Counted the achievements as a way to get them.

I also mentioned this years skins.

For the 2012 skins you are grinding tickets (thats a currency) so no you are not working directly towards it. Like I said before, who are you fooling.

You progress towards them with currency yes, you don’t work directly towards them.

I never said you had to get them all. That would also not be the case if you worked directly towards them.. what you are not doing, you are grinding currency to get most of them.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

… Lots of stuff I am skipping over cause its already been discussed many multiple of times but if you want me to reply to something specifically let me know not ignoring or avoiding just dont wanna get locked in a debate circle …

Let me give the example why it’s the worst option. Let’s say you want a specific skin in this item that drops from a champion bag at an extremely low rate. Then working directly working towards it is by farming those bags. But you likely have earned to gold to buy it by doing so before the item drops. So going for that item is the worst way.

Champion bag skins are a bit of a catch 22 true. Getting the item directly is farming just as much as getting the gold for it. But luckly we have the 3rd option, the 3rd option I’ve been advocating so much, currency as it is intended to be. Your nice weapons skin that drops from the champion bag costs dont know say 20g. You currently have 200 gold but we’re not going to outright buy it that would be boring. We’re going to earn 20g and buy it once we have 220g. I personally am a dynamic events person so I am going with playing in the open world. Strickly speaking we need 400 dynamic events to earn 20g but we can cut that down as until we earn out skin we’re going to sell stuff we earn even though generally I keep the mats for my crafting. That will probably cut the events needed by about 1/3 and not counting the mats you gather along the way and sell. All in all we’ll need approximately 280 events. Will do close to 25 events per day and it will take me 2 weeks to earn that 20g and buy that skin. I may take a break do a dungeon, a fractal may a few jumping puzzles and why not perhaps try to kill a couple of champions and see if I Get lucky and it drops. At the end of the day whatever i’ll still get closer. At the end of 2 weeks I’ll be happy because I did an effort and it feels I earn the skin. I still played the stuff I would have played had I not set my eyes on that skin. I didnt have to do any mindless grinding. I got the skin I wanted.

Sure if I farmed I could have got that skin in 2 – 3hrs instead of 2 weeks but what would that have got me? since I like open world stuff after I got the skin by farming gold now that I dont have a reward to strive for I will spend the next 2 weeks doing open world stuff with my new skin wishing I could earn my skin doing open world stuff rather then boring gold farms probably which ironically I already could do!

So your solution to the currency grind is… currency grind?

Oow and the stuff I like to do like JP’s don’t earn me a lot of money. What I also like is WvW but then mainly staying in a keep upgrading it and defending it. Running with the zerg would make me money, upgrading and defending a keep cost me money. The other thing I like to do is going directly after those rewards but we already concluded that was not really possible (in this case).

Galen Grey.4709:

so having 18 items you specifically gave as an example of what ruines your expience in a game is okey when that number exceeds 18 then thats when the issue starts? 3 armor sets in the cash shop is fine, 7 is a problem.

No those 18 or so are also bad but the game is not designed around it like GW2. It’s not like a currency grind trying to get you to buy stuff from the cash-shop but yes it matters if you have 250 mini’s in the game and 18 of those are available using the cash-shop or 200 are available using the cash-shop.

But of course I should not complain about that but of course you can grind gold to get them.. oow wait the complain was about the grind.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

wasted.6817:

I see this “2 weeks after rushing through content, back to complaining on forums” myth is still popular and goes around. How do people even come up with that kind of crap.

2 weeks is perhaps a little exaggerated although true for some hardcore players. For most people a couple of months is more likely.

there is a website that can help shed some light on this. it allows people to post their average play time:
http://www.howlongtobeat.com/

going for a certain very popular mmo if we take how long people took to finish the main content on average and the fastest times we get:

Expansion 1: 50hrs, 50hrs
Expansion 2: 335hrs, 70hrs
Expansion 3: 176hrs, 11hrs
Expansion 4: 211hrs, 20hrs

The ‘main’ content is not what kept me playing in mmo’s. It was all the side things (that in GW2 are sadly mainly grinding gold) there are in the world.

However if we would to look at that you can also ask yourself how many time people have spend in the LS things. You really think that is a lot. It’s something people do once and take about 2 hours to complete.. Now I am indeed talking about just the LS alone because you are talking about the ‘main’ content in expansions. So that number not going to be any higher.

I am sorry but Gw2 has that side stuff too but your reply to that was always along the lines of drop rates are just too low! Anything that can be bought with gold with the exception of gem shop stuff of course can be acquired in game. going for the gold instead of the stuff directly is just a personal choice.

No it is no choice. Most things you can not work for directly (it’s not a viable option) and you are required to grind a currency. I do not mind low drop rates at all. That makes stuff more rare what is fine. As long as you can work directly towards it and that is also the most viable option to get the rewards. What is not the case in GW2 for most things in there.

It is a choice. You can do one or the other that makes it a choice.

Ok please tell me how I would work directly towards the Flying broom? Or the Mist Herald Back item? Or the Gwynefyrdd? Or the Halloween Skins?

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

The problem with replayable content is generally speaking its content designed to keep you busy for months – years and takes the form of dungeons and raids you need to repeat to get the next tier of gear or to unlock whats coming next. I’d personally take LS over that kind of content any day! Repeating the same things for long stretchs of time is just not fun for me.

GW2 is also trying to keep you busy with grinding for stuff. What you are talking about is a tier grind what is a another topic all together. Expansion do not automatically have to mean a new tier of armor and weapons. Also they have much more then just raids and dungeons it it comes to collecting stuff. How about mounts, mini’s, recipe’s and so on. That is just as much things used to keep many players playing for a long time. Some as part of a dungeon you would need to repeat other things as a reward for a quest or an achivement.

If you remove those rewards outside of dungeons and raids we get back to the original problem. A couple of months and its all finished.

Read againt. I did give alternative rewards to put in the game. But you are right. If the expansion would be just a boring grind as this people will soon start complaining again. So a new expansion should also change some other thinks like a better reward system. (what we talked about in the Gable Wars 2 thread). Of course that comes back to why I am so for a true B2P model in stead of a F2P. If they want to keep selling gems they will have to make buying gems interesting what you do not do with an good reward system in the game because then people earn the best rewards there.

Galen Grey.4709:

I always prefer and do go after rewards directly and many times I get them. I dont know why you who advocate going for stuff directly are having so many issues.

Lol who are you trying to fool here? Yourself?

Galen Grey.4709:

“They could have also just played the game and earn the rewards. Thats what I did and already nearly got all I need to get all I want. "

Funny, I have been playing this game since pre-release but for most I would like going directly for it was not an option.

Let’s see, what in the Halloween patch can you work directly towards without grinding a currency. The weapon skins? No. The mini’s? Of the 6 mini’s? Available 1 of them? Still not with specific content but with achievements. The skin you get in the JP Yes. The Toy? No. Of the two availible outfits you can earn one with the achievements (well yearn earn currency lol with it and then you can buy it). The weapon skins from 2012? no.

You must be very lucky if those items you wanted where all available to work towards directly.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Nice story however I talked about working towards the items in the game. Not trading it for another item (what you hole story is about). I kill a boss and he drops the reward …

When you’re choosing to buy it off TP thats exactly what you’re doing trading one item for another using currency as a proxy.

Like I said. Thats exactly what I NOT want to do. I am talking about getting a reward from the content, not! by trading it.

Galen Grey.4709:

The way I see it its grinding thats boring. Now Ironically its actually currencies that enable me to avoid that grind completely by allowing me to choose the content I want to play to earn whatever reward I am after rather then forcing me to repeat a specific content an ungodly amount of times to get it.

Let’s not fool each other or other. We all know thats not how it works except if the few gold grinds in this game (champion, world-bosses, now the labyrinth or dungeon rushing) are what you like. Not to mention that the reward drop does add extras to the content. The “will it drop rush” I talked about before.

Galen Grey.4709:

Why is playing the game boring? Remember you dont get currency just by farming! you dont have to spend from dusk till dawn in a champion train to buy whatever you’re after! You can play whatever content you choose which includes doing the actual content that drops that reward!

One of the things I like is going directly after items. Thats what I liked doing in other mmo’s. I want that cool item but I need recipe x. That drops from that mob in that cave over there. Ok let’s go there. Later I want that mini, that is a quest reward for quest y. Let’s go do that. Then I wanted a mount, that can drop in dungeon Z, lets go do dungeon Z. That is how I like to play. That is the content I like to do!

Galen Grey.4709:

I dont know how to put this, I must have wrote and deleted this line a million times. Hmm lets put it this way, have you ever considered that what you think is best option is actually the worst option?

Let me give the example why it’s the worst option. Let’s say you want a specific skin in this item that drops from a champion bag at an extremely low rate. Then working directly working towards it is by farming those bags. But you likely have earned to gold to buy it by doing so before the item drops. So going for that item is the worst way.

Thaddeus.4891:

MMO will always be like that. They can’t produce fresh new content that will give you good amount of gold as fast as the players will be able to go through it. And remember that GW2 don’t have a monthly fee, meaning that if not enough people buy gems, then they won’t have as much staff to create new content.

That’s a huge paradox of MMORPG. A lot of people that play these games, want to play it almost everyday. But if you play it several hours per day, you will burn through content really fast and end up with grinding gold to get other stuff.

I don’t complain about the amount of gold. They might remove most gold rewards from the game if it’s up to me. What I would however like is the ability to directly work towards an item I like.

Roybe.5896:

I you believe RNG is a reward system I want you to work for my company! I pay by flipping a coin on Friday. Heads I pay you your hourly wage, tails I pay you nothing. Great reward, right?

You do realize the gold grinding is also mainly based on RNG right? The fact that it grantees a stable income in the game is because of the high numbers of drops what then makes for a stable average number. (Thats how averages work).

And again there is somebody comparing it to work. I have see so many people make comparisons to work in these forums for a long time. Usually in a way to try and defend it. Apparently not seeing that the fact that you can compare a game to a job is a negative and so in stead of defending it you are proving the point against it.

Rasimir.6239:

phys.7689:

People have opened 10k-27k trick or treat bags, and not gonna the rare drops.

Everyone keeps quoting the people that have opened high numbers of bags without mini, but nobody quotes the people that have opened less than a stack or two and got the mini …

What I’d really be interested in is the amount of bags opened total across all servers, and the amount of minis found total compared to that. Unfortunately, only ANet has those numbers, and I doubt they’d ever release them. It’s the only real indication if the chance works out the way ANet envisioned it, no amount of anecdotal evidence on the forums can come close to that.

No it’s not the only real way. What you should ask yourself. Can you really directly work towards the item you desire in a viable way, or is grinding gold always the better option. Everybody who has played the game for some time knows the last is true. That means that the reward system is bad and then the exact drop is not important to know.

lordkrall.7241:

Astralporing.1957:

Nobody wants to work in a sweat shop. It’s just some people are forced to do it, because they have no alternative. I’m pretty sure, they don’t consider it fun.

Of course there are people that wants to do it as well. There are people for everything after all.

And to be fair much of this post could be applied to more or less any work. You are after all forced to get money in order to survive and so on.

You see what you did there?

You compare this GAME to forces work. And that comparison is not so strange because the currency grind in GW2 does work exactly that way except it’s not forced but it is the only really viable option.

The problem here is that if a game looks like work it’s bad!

A game should be fun, that’s why it’s a game.

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

amassing currency by repetitive simple behaviors at a very low rate, is not considered to be enjoyable for most people. Or else people would be signing up to work in sweat shops.

Even if you dont get lucky for anything to drop you can probably buy most of the things in just 2 weeks. How is that a very low rate?

I also heard mentioning people selling tot bags (Which I dont do) earn like 7g per hour, thats very much above the game average per hour has that very low?

And then you have the drops themselves. while earning the currency to buy stuff you want you may get it for free as well.

I am not sure which one of these compares with a sweat shop analogy to be honest

if i told you i would give you a drawing of your charachter(lets say i sell these for 60 bucks), but you have to click the microsoft button on your desktop and close the window for 3 hours a day for 2 weeks, to me that would be a pretty low rate.
essentially, that 42 hours of monotonus activity for a 60 dollar value. 1.42 dollars per hour.

you could do boring repetive task for 7 gold an hour, and get what you want for 290 gold in 2 weeks, or you can spend twenty one dollars worth of work (1-3 hours).
that is a low rate.

7 gold an hour is like 60 cents an hour.
that is sweat shop rates.

Okey let me give you a different perspective on this.

You can give as many perspectives on it as you want but the fact is that at the end of the day this is considered very boring by many people.