Guild Wars 2

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

~

My vision on this:

Are said ‘blueprints’ Guild-bound? Yes. (At lease once unlocked)

“Does that mean Devs must create a new kind of binding for items?”

They need to design something new yes but I would see it more as an unlock then as a item. Much the same way you can now unlock skins in you wardrobe. Of course we have already something like that.. guilds can unlock things so technically they could use that (and save some development time) however I would think it would be better if this would work a little differed.. more indeed like the wardrobe but then for guilds. They might in fact be able to use the wardrobe system. They already reused it for mini’s. Only question is how hard or how easy it would be to link it to a guild.

“The question left open is what would happen if you take up a blue-print?” I would think it would work like taking a using a blue-print in WvW. You have something in your hand that you can place but now you are not able to take it back into your inventory and If you leave the guild-hall area it will be gone.. The blue-print wardrobe will then be available in your basic guild-hall you unlock before you can start building and expanding it.

“What designates that this particular dungeon run, or other activity (outside of Guild Missions) will now supply a ‘blueprint’?”
2 things. 1 you do it with guild-members only (all representing) and 2 the items blue-print is in a way linked to that content. It might drop as RNG loot that you pick up and then unlock for your representing guild. It should be easy I think to only RNG drop things that your guild has not yet unlocked.. remember are you doing the dungeon with people representing different guilds it will not drop. (if it’s a guild specific content drop / unlock)

“Would it only be instanced content that awarded said ‘blueprints’?” No guild-missions could as well and a World Boss could also. Now then the “you only do it with guild-members” elements would be gone but it might then work just as letters of commendations. It drops for a player and he double clicks it to unlock it for his guild (or it unlocks automatically much like a skin does when I buy it from a karma vendor but then it would not really be an item). I don’t know how the loot system works but it is maybe possible to only give a player blue-prints for his guild that are not unlocked yet. Also activating one of the world-bosses and completing it (also with other guild-people) might be a way to unlock something. However if it’s something you do specifically with a guild (a guild, guild-missions or starting a guild-boss) I would think it would give ‘better’ blue-prints then the ones members can get as drops or unlocks themselves.

“not, how does the game determine who qualifies and who does not?”
Well that depends how the loot system works but most likely by if and what guild he is representing.

“Are the ‘blueprints’ an addition to the loot rolls?”
In that case yes they would.

“Guaranteed for everyone in a guild?”
I don’t get this question but only one person has to get it, he uses it (just as the letter of commendation) and then that blue-print unlocks for the guild of what the guild is able to use it (all members) if they have building rights.

“Is the content that awards ‘blueprints’ only content that a Guild initiates just as Guild Missions?”
No but the best blue-prints would be. And then with a guild initiating the content I also mean doing a dungeon with all members representing that guild, or starting a world boss, or claiming a keep in WvW or doing guild-missions. But a member doing an event might also get a blue-print to drop or unlock it by doing something. But while doing a dungeon with the guild could maybe reward a portal a single person who gets a drop would never get a portal but maybe one of the many wall blue-prints.

“Is there a cost to initiate said content?”
Depends on the content. Claiming or doing a dungeon does not. Guild missions or starting a world boss now cost influence. But for me personally it would not need to require a cost to do the content no.

“Will small guilds be left out, again?”
Overall no. There might be some content they can not do and so blue-prints they can not get. (Small guilds can maybe not unlock guild-missions and so also not get the blueprints you earn that way) also blue-prints that drop in the world will be faster obtained by guilds with many people in the world then by guilds with few people in the world. But overall small and big guilds would be able to get there guidl-hall, earn / unlock / get blue-prints and so start building and expanding on there guild-hall the way they like. So small guilds would for sure not be left out here.

Rambodacious.7495:

Devata.6589:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Just a couple of thoughts I’ve had while catching up on the discussion:

What are the advantages of an Open World GH over an instanced one? How would one really, fairly, place every single guild in GW2 into the open world (within their respective regions of course)

It feels more immersive, your guild-hall can now be more of a representation of your guild in the world, there go’s more pride into building and owning your guild-hall, people see each others guild-hall (from the outside) without needing be be invited in.

That would be why.

For the how questions multiple possible solutions have been given. Special guild-hall maps, sky-maps (if guild-halls would be floating airships), having a limited number of spots in the current world, have your guild-hall usually in an instance but every week or two weeks it might be in one of the open world map.

A massive undertaking for a little immersion isn’t a good trade-off. I’ll try and list all the problems with the idea:

1. Guilds currently playing have first dibs on this territory, so if it’s limited in space, future players are SOL.
2. If you try and make GH’s disappear after a given time frame of non-use, then you reduce the likelihood of players returning after a break, also bad.
3. The creation of a zone linked to each guild’s customized GH is a nightmare for coding and the zone would have to be so epicly big it would be simply be tedious to run around looking at guild halls.

Rather than look for ways to make GH’s immersive for all players visually, it’s far easier, development-wise, to focus on allowing the owners of the GH to customize within their own instance. Besides, I think we all realize there’s only so many development hours they have and we would all want more time spent on the actual GH rather than being able to see someone else’s GH in a zone.

I think it’s not a small thing I think it’s huge because it also give more reason to invest in the guild-hall and so in the game. And then there where the other reason I gave. immersion was only one.

Also the things you point out, for all of them possible solutions have already been given in this thread.

1. Some solutions that are given. Airmaps if guild-halls would be air-ships. Now you don’t really have a plot you are flying. And would it be on the ground you would only have to reserve space on the world map and then dynamically open and close maps on the ground to create the place you need. There where also some solutions with the mist and a model where you guild-hall could be in an instance but sometimes also pop up in the real world. So you would need less space in the real world.

2. In such a case you would only lose your plot (if it’s an airship it would despawn much like you yourself are gone when you log out. That might then even happen if no guild-members are online). But as soon as you log in you would only have to find a new plot and you would be able to place your guild-hall there again. So you would never lose the guild-hall only the plot / place and there is always place available if you come back.

3. You mean that it would have to be one big map that hold all guild-houses? Why could it not be multiple maps or multiple instances (overflows) of the same map. You always represent one guild at a time so you could always be send to the map your guild-hall is in.

Rambodacious.7495:

Devata.6589:

Trent.5201:

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Just a question here. Would you be fine with it if those unlocks would not be unlocked with influence (or at least not all of them) but it would also be blue-prints you can earn in the world by doing stuff with your guild.

I talked about earning blue-prints in the world before and mentioned walls and stuff but it could also be things like you mention here.

For example there are 8 dungeons in the world and there are at this moment 8 logical locations for portals to go to.

The races 5 city’s, (6) LA, (7) Stronghold of Ebonhawke and (8) Southsun cove
.
Now while you might get a nice rng blue-print drop from a boss in a dungeon (when doing it with guild-members) and unlocking an even better drop for completion one dungeon path, completing all paths of a dungeon could unlock the blue-print of a portal to one of the city’s. (Then you can place as many of them in your guild-hall as you like).

Of course you would try to make the unlocks sort of logical. Arah unlocks blue-print for the portal to LA just because it’s the hardest. AC to BC, CM to DR, TA to The Grove, CoE to RS, SE to Hoelbrak, HotW to Cursed Shore and CoF to Stronghold of Ebonhawke.

All have to make some sense in a way.

Unlocking the SAB blue-print (maybe this would be a unique one that you can only place of of in your GH?.. Maybe not) you could likely do with completing SAB with guild-members.

You see I would prefer it this way because it’s most importantly fun more fun then just an unlock in your upgrades window, it gets rid of another currency grind (except maybe the supply to build it), it give guilds things to do and goals to directly! work towards and it’s doable for big and for smaller guilds.

The problem is you’re forcing guilds to run dungeons. The unlock in a guild window allows players the opportunity to play how they want to and still unlock guild hall content.

If Anet wants to implement specific content to unlock GH features, they’d need to do it across four platforms and also do it equally amongst them. WvW, Dungeons, Open World and lastly, SPvP.

They might be better suited devoting design time to making these game modes better rather than implementing drop rates and rewards to unlock GH features. It would seem to be more profitable – making the game more fun, rather than more grindy.

Well that might be the case however the result of the currency approach has resulted in many people boringly grinding currency. I would not want to know how many people find some way to grind a currency (mainly gold) and ‘play’ GW2 grinding that stuff while watching a movie at the same time. Is that what you want? I would hate it if people played my game as if it was a job.

So personally I would not see that as a positive. But at the same time what I said was “things have to make sense”. Maybe there are also portals to WvW and then those you would earn in WvW (For example have a claim on a keep for a full week to unlock the portal to that WvW map). So different items are locked behind different content but because it makes sense (like I said that is important) this should not be the biggest problem. If you really don’t want to do any PvE stuff you might also not be interested in a portal to LA and blue-prints for walls and doors that have a more WvW like style might drop in WvW (but not in PvE content).

So yes you lock things behind specific content meaning if a guild would want that they would need to do that linked content. But at the same time you do it in logical ways and imho you should then as WvW guild not be complaining for the fact that you need to do PvE content to get a portal to a PvE area or a wall in the style of something we see in PvE but not in WvW. And that also works the other way around. Are you as guild seriously gonna complain that you need to do WvW to unlock a portal to WvW? I think you could easy dismiss it if anybody would start complaining about that.

And what I suggest would in my opinion make it more fun and less grindy. It’s exactly the absence of such drops that make many content feel boring soon and it’s exactly that currency driven way of earning things that turns everything so much into a grind. That is why I suggest it this way.. More fun, less grind, many goals.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I find some ideas here quite odd, some guys seem to forget that there are guilds as large as hundrets of players, not 5-10.

Well you would unlock a basic guild-hall / room that is available for every guild (and would not be able to hold 500 people). After that you can build upon that making it bigger. In size while not optimal but Stone Mist would be able to hold 500 people I think (while it would be pretty full) and building something of that size or even much much bigger should not be a problem for most suggestions here. Even for airships (what could not be exacly as big as guild-halls in GW1 I guess) they could be big enough to easily fit a lot of people in.

The bigger problem is that so many people in one spot would be kitten the servers but that is a complete separate problem that has not so much to do with the suggestions I have seen.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Just a couple of thoughts I’ve had while catching up on the discussion:

What are the advantages of an Open World GH over an instanced one? How would one really, fairly, place every single guild in GW2 into the open world (within their respective regions of course)

It feels more immersive, your guild-hall can now be more of a representation of your guild in the world, there go’s more pride into building and owning your guild-hall, people see each others guild-hall (from the outside) without needing be be invited in.

That would be why.

For the how questions multiple possible solutions have been given. Special guild-hall maps, sky-maps (if guild-halls would be floating airships), having a limited number of spots in the current world, have your guild-hall usually in an instance but every week or two weeks it might be in one of the open world map.

JerryMain.4371:

Devata.6589:

krosis.7598:

Along the lines of “make it physical”, I would LOVE to see a physical representation for when a guild is busy “building” a guild element, whether a literal house portion or working their way to a Guild Bank. Workers milling about, scaffolding, each in the right “area” of the guild housing to show what’s being worked on, without having to dive into a menu.

How about making it so that part if it needs to be done by guild-members? So you see guild-members running around building things?

Make it like some event in the guild halls, with a progress bar.
And like the hearts make have multiple ways to complete it:
– Bring resources
– Defend workers form x
– etc.

Thats basically like the WvW keep upgrade works (btw what to defend the workers against here?) I was more thinking in the way siege building works in WvW.

Trent.5201:

~

Just a question here. Would you be fine with it if those unlocks would not be unlocked with influence (or at least not all of them) but it would also be blue-prints you can earn in the world by doing stuff with your guild.

I talked about earning blue-prints in the world before and mentioned walls and stuff but it could also be things like you mention here.

For example there are 8 dungeons in the world and there are at this moment 8 logical locations for portals to go to.

The races 5 city’s, (6) LA, (7) Stronghold of Ebonhawke and (8) Southsun cove
.
Now while you might get a nice rng blue-print drop from a boss in a dungeon (when doing it with guild-members) and unlocking an even better drop for completion one dungeon path, completing all paths of a dungeon could unlock the blue-print of a portal to one of the city’s. (Then you can place as many of them in your guild-hall as you like).

Of course you would try to make the unlocks sort of logical. Arah unlocks blue-print for the portal to LA just because it’s the hardest. AC to BC, CM to DR, TA to The Grove, CoE to RS, SE to Hoelbrak, HotW to Cursed Shore and CoF to Stronghold of Ebonhawke.

All have to make some sense in a way.

Unlocking the SAB blue-print (maybe this would be a unique one that you can only place of of in your GH?.. Maybe not) you could likely do with completing SAB with guild-members.

You see I would prefer it this way because it’s most importantly fun more fun then just an unlock in your upgrades window, it gets rid of another currency grind (except maybe the supply to build it), it give guilds things to do and goals to directly! work towards and it’s doable for big and for smaller guilds.

I went and had a look at the sky’s of Tyria. And the whole space ships that you can also see in the real maps could work. All the sky map would have to do is show send information about the the guild-hall (minimal it’s position on the map and the model) to the linked ground map and the ground map would preferable send information about it’s weather to the linked sky-map. I don’t know if weather is map based or controlled by another object (what would be even better)

I did notice that day-time and night time is now server-wide. I am pretty sure that was not the case before!

Only small possible problems would be that the sky map would basically have to be the size of the complete explorable world map (because in map X I see the sky above map Y so I would have to see the airship at that spot as well else you get real strange stuff with ships only directly above you and so on. Then again, because the sky map would only have to visualize some clouds and the guild-halls that might be possible. I do not know what is limiting the size of the maps.. The models in it or the data from the many players. If that latest is the case then it might be a problem because you could only have a limited number of airships in a very big space.

Another problem would be how so seal off the edges. I would likely use some wind effect or something like that. (Please not just an invisible wall)

Anyway, while there might be some technical difficulties I think it might be doable. Then from the ground you can see high in the sky the many guild-halls (of the linked sky-map) and from the sky you can see the complete ground map (like how the world map would look with a person who has 100% exploration completion) including the correct weather clouds above them.

It would sure look cool and be pretty unique in an MMO plus it would compete with the other MMO’s out there.

And with the last trailer from the last LS it might even fit in the lore.. if that was supposed to be the sky’s above Tyria.

Oow and it would be able to solve the mega-server problem for the biggest part, while I still might not be able to see my own guild-hall in the sky because the map I am in it linked to another sky-map.. I would however do link it to maps not to players (what would solve this) so all players in that map see the same.

Gulesave.5073:

Sarrs.4831:

Why not use gathered materials (wood/metal/leather/cloth) as components in guild hall construction?

Ooh, this has me imagining: What if we actually built the guild hall ourselves?

Guild leaders can “commission” units of the construction from an architecture interface. Then everyone can use their normal crafting professions to make all the beams, walls, doors, rugs, chandeliers, training dummies, etc., that are needed for construction.

When guildies have provided all the materials needed for major constructions, you can have a “barn-raising” style event where everyone shows up to the build site and whacks at it with a hammer for a couple minutes until everything poofs into place.

Well that would be an option just not sure if we should use the current crafts for that. (do not seem to fit) and need to be carefull to not create to much of a boring mats grind. But yes build you guils-halls and do that with ‘blocks’ (as I name them.. but basically models of walls and doors and so on.) those blocks you can unlock and are blue-prints then just as siege (but with unlimited uses) in WvW you can put it somewhere and build it, and then that way block for block you build your guild-hall.

That is how I would see it.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Devata.6589:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Torsailr.8456:

Hi Chris,
I have a bit of a tangential question.

How feasible would it be for Anet to develop an editor for players to develop their own guild hall layouts? Is it beyond the scope of things you want to consider?

Hi Tor,

This is beyond scope but thanks for asking. This said players should absolutely be able to customize their Guilds Hall.

Chris

And that is then considered a editor? Having a grid where you can place ‘blocks’ in (blocks being models to whatever degree or detail) maybe with some logic as to how these ‘blocks’ would fit together. Is that also then considered an ‘editor’.

No not in the way I am thinking of it.

Chris

Ok that is great to hear. Thnx.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Torsailr.8456:

Hi Chris,
I have a bit of a tangential question.

How feasible would it be for Anet to develop an editor for players to develop their own guild hall layouts? Is it beyond the scope of things you want to consider?

Hi Tor,

This is beyond scope but thanks for asking. This said players should absolutely be able to customize their Guilds Hall.

Chris

And that is then considered a editor? Having a grid where you can place ‘blocks’ in (blocks being models to whatever degree or detail) maybe with some logic as to how these ‘blocks’ would fit together. In the game world, not in some special editor window. Is that also then considered an ‘editor’.

Iason Evan.3806:

Devata.6589:

Iason Evan.3806:

Devata.6589:

Well I would not want guilds to be instanced so thats where ye go in a differend direction from the start.

Secondly I would see the ability to unlock building blocks for your hall (after unlock some basic hall) and then it’s not a problem if a bigger guild can get some more building block or can can them some faster. In the end I would see stuff being added during the game so in a way your guild-hall is never done. But I do not feel all guilds should have to be on a equal play-ground.

I hear ya. I want open world guild halls and housing too, but it just isn’t feasible in a game like GW2. LOTRO was an open world game that totally could have supported open world housing and guild halls and they used instanced neighborhoods where the kinship(guild)halls were and the player housing too. I could see this type of thing working so that it still had a degree of community. A neighborhood of guild halls would be really cool. The only way I could see open world guild halls is if they did away with the water areas and added a ton of land mass to each map and I just don’t see that happening.

If you don’t feel all guilds should be on equal playing ground then let’s do it by the age of guild then? How about since for guild missions, large guilds had a huge advantage over small guilds so for guild halls, small guilds should have an advantage? See how when it’s framed that way it makes no sense? Why are you treating an area of the game that promotes community as a reward but you see the clear advantage that large guilds have over small guilds?

There have been multiple suggestions and solutions posted here to how make open world guild-halls work in GW2 so it should be possible.

Imho it would simply make sense that a larger guild who has more people and so who can do more together is able to create a bigger guild-hall. Besides when scaling things what you really say is, a bigger guild has to work harder to get the same, what seem unfair. In a way a guild-hall should also be a representation of your guild.

I am not saying a bigger guild should have to work harder or vice versa. I am saying it should take roughly the same amount of time for a large guild to get upgrades as a small guild. That’s it.

In practice that’s the same.

Iason Evan.3806:

Devata.6589:

Well I would not want guilds to be instanced so thats where ye go in a differend direction from the start.

Secondly I would see the ability to unlock building blocks for your hall (after unlock some basic hall) and then it’s not a problem if a bigger guild can get some more building block or can can them some faster. In the end I would see stuff being added during the game so in a way your guild-hall is never done. But I do not feel all guilds should have to be on a equal play-ground.

I hear ya. I want open world guild halls and housing too, but it just isn’t feasible in a game like GW2. LOTRO was an open world game that totally could have supported open world housing and guild halls and they used instanced neighborhoods where the kinship(guild)halls were and the player housing too. I could see this type of thing working so that it still had a degree of community. A neighborhood of guild halls would be really cool. The only way I could see open world guild halls is if they did away with the water areas and added a ton of land mass to each map and I just don’t see that happening.

If you don’t feel all guilds should be on equal playing ground then let’s do it by the age of guild then? How about since for guild missions, large guilds had a huge advantage over small guilds so for guild halls, small guilds should have an advantage? See how when it’s framed that way it makes no sense? Why are you treating an area of the game that promotes community as a reward but you see the clear advantage that large guilds have over small guilds?

There have been multiple suggestions and solutions posted here to how make open world guild-halls work in GW2 so it should be possible.

Imho it would simply make sense that a larger guild who has more people and so who can do more together is able to create a bigger guild-hall. Besides when scaling things what you really say is, a bigger guild has to work harder to get the same, what seem unfair. In a way a guild-hall should also be a representation of your guild.

Iason Evan.3806:

Devata.6589:

/snip

My answer to you on guild size and upgrades is two-fold. Firstly, Guild Halls will be instanced. In the actual game my guild is 180 people. Let’s say your guild is 20 people. You will never see my guild hall and I will never see yours so it doesn’t matter if you are able to get all of your upgrades in roughly the same amount of time as my guild even though we have significantly more people than you. I have always contended that the base guild hall should be relatively cheap to purchase.

The upgrades should have a cost to them but should scale to guild size. For example, in this game there is no leveling curve. It takes roughly the same amount of time to gain a level at level 30 as it does to go from level 65 to level 66. Why should it be faster for a large guild to get their instanced guild hall than for a smaller guild?

Maybe we should gate guilds by when they were created? My guild has been around for 250+ years in Tyria. Should I be able to build my guild hall way faster than someone who formed it just a few months after Zhaitan was killed? The answer is a resounding no. Just like leveling, guild size/age/aggregate PvP scores/whatever else you can think of shouldn’t be a factor in how quickly a guild gets their Hall.

As far as taxes etc. I don’t really care. I am more concerned with the building process. Do I think upkeep should be a static cost for 10 person guilds and 450+ person guilds? Heck no. Unless ArenaNet wants to flat out comment that they want all guilds to be Wal-Mart and Mom and Pop guilds can go the way of the dodo I don’t think it should work that way.

Well I would not want guilds to be instanced so thats where ye go in a differend direction from the start.

Secondly I would see the ability to unlock building blocks for your hall (after unlock some basic hall) and then it’s not a problem if a bigger guild can get some more building block or can can them some faster. In the end I would see stuff being added during the game so in a way your guild-hall is never done. But I do not feel all guilds should have to be on a equal play-ground.

Retro.6831:

Devata.6589:

About the taxes. I don’t think anybody really said they wanted taxes but it was mentioned as one of the ways (among others) to prevent guild-halls (if in the open world) to become ghost-houses when the guild would go inactive.

Donari.5237:

I continue to disagree with the need for upkeep. It essentially forces people to play (and in the above suggestion, to play repping a specific guild) or lose progress made while playing.

The 100% rep guilds are heavy handed enough now, imagine if keeping the GH depended on players repping.

+1 more vote for “No Upkeeps.”

Upkeep fees run completely counter to Guild Wars 2’s play style (horizontal progression) and subscription-free payment model. Players are able to pick up right where they left off months or even years later and not feel like they’ve been left behind. Having upkeep fees would essentially force players to play to maintain their guild hall, which is contrary to the rest of the game.

Of course, as Devata mentions, upkeep fees are designed for more open world housing systems, to prevent the large swaths of land required for that approach free of abandoned houses. If Guild Halls or instanced (or pseudo-instanced as in my proposal) there’s absolutely no need for them. I would argue that even if Prophet.6257’s idea of Guild “Zones” is implemented, having multiple, numbered copies of the zone would be more in line with Guild Wars 2’s design than an upkeep fee.

I’ve got a rough list of notes I’m making as I pick through this thread. I’m not 100% caught up yet, I’ll share it when I’m done. Awesome work in here so far though, guys.

But there is a simple solution for preventing abandoned guild-halls. You can lose 1 thing if guild-halls are in the open world and that is your plot. If nobody of your guild logs in for two weeks you will lose your plot in the open world (that includes air-maps if we would get airships). But in that case there is simply a copy of you guild-hall in the guild-menu and you can active that putting it back in the open world.

This would prevent ghost-towns, it prevents taxes or upkeeps and if a guild go’s inactive for a while and then comes back they can still pick up where they left.

Nitross.6987:

Guild halls can be so many things at once, it’s hard to stop at just a few. Here’s a few points I feel are important.

Guild halls are the “end game” for guilds and should be something that is both permanent and requires upkeep, so the players always have something to work for.
As things are, a lot of guilds only really come to life during guild missions. Building the Guild Hall is a goal that will rally a lot but, if all upgrades to the hall are permanent, activity will die out soon after it is maxed out. Because of this, a lot of the upgrades to the hall should have upkeep and/or their own build queue so we can pay influence to keep them up. I don’t like the idea of permanent crafting stations in the halls as it could empty the cities but, if you need to be out in the world making influence as a guild to keep them, it would instead send more players playing.

I have to disagree here. Yes it’s supposed to be endgame but upkeep to make it feel like work? I rather not. What I had in mind to keep guilds busy / make guild-halls end-game where 2 things. First of the the activities you can do with the guild-hall. The mini’s games in it, GvG if that would be implemented or if we get air-ships you could fight each other on those ships and maybe placing it in a WvW like map would also be possible.

The second thing is that Anet could and should keep adding new upgrades and with upgrades I mean building blocks basically. So there is reasons for guilds to keep working on there guild-hall, changing it making it look better and so on. Once you have the system in place adding new building blocks should be reasonable easy Anet and it would add a lot of value and end-game for the guilds.

But if they are happy and feel like doing some less on it they should not be force to grind for it or lose half there guild-hall. If you would do that it would feel like work. Also it might put shrinking guilds in a down spiral.

Iason Evan.3806:

Torsailr.8456:

Iason Evan.3806:

I do and posted them in this CDI. It had to do with the barebones purchase of a guild hall being relatively trivial. What the difference was is this:

“Being a big guild with access to more resources because of size and numbers shouldn’t be a better way to acquire guild upgrades. I’d suggest a scaling upgrades system. For example, let’s say hypothetically that we will be able to add a Merchant to the guild hall. For guilds of 0-25 people this would cost 10 gold(just an example) and let’s say that two months later that guild recruits more people and now they are in the 25-100 person guild size range. In order to keep the merchant they then have to pay 20 more gold. 100-500 could cost 100g. This way it is a trivial sum for large guilds to pay to have a merchant and a trivial sum for small guilds. It’s just an example but I think something like this would work.”

Sorry, individual posts started bluring together 4 pages ago.

I’m not sure about sliding prices like that. It almost penalizes guilds just for being larger and forcing players to pay more or lose a feature feels like a tax for successfully growing the guild. Also, if we’re talking about using gold for buying guild things, how would this differ from buying influence to purchase guild features?

It doesn’t have to be gold. That’s not the point though. The point is the sliding scale and it totally differs from buying Influence with gold because with a set price on Infuence costs a large guild has a WAY easier time buying influence just by sheer numbers alone. Also, if a small guild grows they have to keep paying for upgrades as they grow. I don’t see a downside. Costs remain nominal for any guild size and shouldn’t inclusion and fair prices be a top priority for small and large guilds alike?

I would rather we come up with a solution for small guilds before this stuff is implemented. Guild mission costs for small guilds were terrible when they came out. It never should have happened that way. Large guilds were able to complete their purchases of said missions way sooner than small guilds and that isn’t cool. Gating content behind the size of a guild is awful and only promotes repping a large guild. Most MMOs I have ever played have had static purchase prices for guild halls/housing/whatever and doing it that way would just be par for the course. Where is the innovation in that? Make it fair across the board before implementing a system that caters to large guilds and having to deal with a few weeks of valid complaints on the forums about how small guilds are getting crapped on.

But itself it also fair that bigger guilds can do more or faster. I 100% agree that smaller guilds should have the ability for guild-halls as well including all the basic stuff in it. I don’t agree they should also have to be on the same level.

In addition it would also create a less friendly community. If you are a bigger guild but don’t require hardcore players you might get in disadvantage here because your scale would be high while you income would be relative low.

And would you do the same with sort of taxes based on the site of a guild-hall you get a problem when guilds shrink.

What I would do is having just many activities guilds can do to be able to build on there castle and unlock new parts of blocks or whatever.. (use your imagination) however making sure that at least 50% all all those things you can unlock are also doable for smaller guilds. Some things (unlocks) might be undo-able for them but most things would not. It would however take them longer. Then no taxes and imho all size guilds should be fine.

Baltzenger.2467:

Devata.6589:

Baltzenger.2467:

How I see this proposal after this discussion:

Guild Halls

What are they?
They can be either a building on a floating island, an airship, a building on an separate instance, or a building on a main map instance (building plots idea).

How are they?
The wish of many, as stated in posts, is that guild halls should be customizable. We don’t know the extent of possibility for customization, but it ranges from being able to “upgrade” your guild hall through various methods, to completly build it “block by block”.

What is certain, is that we want this to be a new form of progress for guilds, that should be attainable by various methods, and very diverse, just as how diverse guilds can be (from small to big guilds, from pve focused to pvp focused guilds).

Who should be able to acquire one of those?

The opinions vary a lot in this matter, some, I believe, thinking about small guilds, want Guild Halls to be tax free, with no maintenance cost, or without a cost on merits. Others want this to be a long term, organized effort to achieve, with things like having to gather resources from different places and gamemodes (like the idea of using pvp reward tracks to gather resources), should have a maintenance cost and be a way to show others the power, organization and dedication of a guild. Guild Halls could also be prestige things.
I personally believe that the range, and the idea of progression for Guild Halls could embrace all that was stated before, ranging from “easy-to-obtain”, “small” guild halls, to hard to get, more advanced and costly ones.

What else should Guild Halls add to the game?

What is more commonly stated, is that Guild Halls should add convenience apart from the idea of a meeting place, adding things like a guild bank access, armorers, repair, etc. Some doubt that GH should have crafting stations, because we want to avoid the risk of depopulating major cities, so some services should remain exclusive to those places.

There is also the idea of adding more complex systems, like arenas for duels, mini games, new guild activities related to Guild Halls. And that the addition to this systems, should be optional, taking into account that guilds are different, and have different needs.

Good summarization I think. Reading it I only miss two things.

1 Some people suggested zeppelins.

2 Guild-halls, like you say, should create goals and so but in addition to that should also make guilds more part of this game. Give guilds more a place in this game / the world. Not this separate entity it is now.

Side note:
About the taxes. I don’t think anybody really said they wanted taxes but it was mentioned as one of the ways (among others) to prevent guild-halls (if in the open world) to become ghost-houses when the guild would go inactive.

Thanks

About those points:
1.- To me zeppelins are airships, so there’s that.
2.- About the way Guild Halls help fit guilds into the GW2 universe, I think it’s a given? I mean, unless you have a proposal to achieve this goal, what I understand from the thread is that, Guild Halls by themselves serve this purpose. Of course, the part where we put them as part of maps, or as airships in the sky, etc, is related to that concept too.

edit: Oh and thanks Chris, I’m trying to be helpful

About the zeppelins. I was not the one suggesting it so not sure but what I got from it was that they expected basically multiple models of zeppelins that you could unlock and then the ability to color them the way you like. While the air-ships where more like flaunting guild-halls you could build from the ground up. Of course you could then also build a zeppelin but it’s a completely different approach. So that’s why I did see it as separate things.

Palador.2170:

Alcarin.9024:

This is exactly what I said in my proposal, GvG is a PvP feature and must not be linked with GH that is a PvX feature.

In my opinion GvG map should be a keep separated from GH, there could be customization and all sort of thing you want inside it, but should not be part of GH.

Mixing them will only create more problem to be solved and will slow down development of both.

Please don’t mix them!

A lot of people want that, though. I think there’s a balance to be found, a system that’s made so that it can do both.

Also, as a vet of City of Heroes, I can say that some defensive/offensive items we had for our base PvP (which never really worked right) made for some interesting decorations even in non-PvP bases. Of course, when a patch broke the bases and made them turn hostile against their owners…

Because of the many differed suggestions it’s hard to go into detail. But I would say if GvG is some predefined map where you play it then there is no need to do it in a guild-hall or let it be a blue-print you can unlock and then build in your guild-hall if you like.

Would you want to make it more dynamic and basically let the multiple guild-halls be the GvG map then you could create PvP maps where guilds can fight each other (being it by attack each others air-chaps or guild-halls on the ground) While it would still be necessary to switch from PvP to PvE mode at any time.

Alcarin.9024:

~
Proposal Overview
GH customization like WvW siege

Goal of Proposal
Provide a GH customization system that could be easy/fast to implement by developers (use already available game mechanics).

Proposal Functionality
My idea of customization is inpired by WvW siege.
You could buy items blueprint from an NPC (or produce them with the existing influence system). Using the blueprint will change your weapon skill and allow you to correctly place the item (just like siege weapons), placing the item will create the raw structure that need to be built.

The kind and size of items can be a lot different and may depend on GH map size and terrain. It could be allowed to build buildings (if there are no technical impediments with such large objects, such as collisions etc…), or only items like furniture, statue, fountain, ecc….
There can be texture variation for each items (they are essentially different items, you are allowed to chose one when buying it or just after using it, like selecting stats for legendary weapons), allowing different color and material for some items.

Resource:
For WvW siege, supply are needed to complete the siege. GH items could be free of charge (you only have to buy them) or they can need resources in order to be completed. In example you could need wood in order to build a platform, or need metal ore/lingot in order to build a statue, or cloth to build a carpet, soulbound items may be required in order to require a wide guild mates partecipation. Some items may give a buff when interacted (when completed) so resources should be needed to complete them (in example, a flag that give magic find may require cloth, metal, and ecto).
If is possible to build interactive items, could be great to build (in example) crafting station in this way, so if your guild want a tailoring station in their GH, they must gather enough cloths to complete it. If it is difficult to build items like crafting station in this way, you could build a “crafting station prototype”, this item give you a single skill when interacting to it, that skill activate the crafting station destroing itself and at the same time create kittenable crafting station in the same place with the same look.

~

I do like the idea while I wonder if changing that system to do this would be much easier as building a new system.

But what I would personally do different is that I would see the blue-prints not ans one-use items but basically unlocks.. it might be items you can store in a special guild-bank but it would then be things you can get from doing a dungeon (as a drop from the boss or as reward for completing it) or by doing guild-missions and so on and so on.

Why? Because this gives guilds a lot to do with more reasons. And that is what I would like to see. In addition it would be fun while the currency way would create yet another boring gold or influence or whatever grind. Not to mention that changing things would cost again a lot of influence.

So I would like to see the many many many blue-prints you can get all over the world (with your guild) to be unlocks then you can then freely use but could work just as siege. You place it and then have to build it. Possibly with mats or with a similar system as we see in WvW with supply packages. Guild-members need to bring then and then are able to build it. Just need to be careful there that that itself will then not become another new grind.

This would solve the boring grind while adding a lot of things to do for guilds and it would not make building a guild-hall trivial.

Baltzenger.2467:

How I see this proposal after this discussion:

Guild Halls

What are they?
They can be either a building on a floating island, an airship, a building on an separate instance, or a building on a main map instance (building plots idea).

How are they?
The wish of many, as stated in posts, is that guild halls should be customizable. We don’t know the extent of possibility for customization, but it ranges from being able to “upgrade” your guild hall through various methods, to completly build it “block by block”.

What is certain, is that we want this to be a new form of progress for guilds, that should be attainable by various methods, and very diverse, just as how diverse guilds can be (from small to big guilds, from pve focused to pvp focused guilds).

Who should be able to acquire one of those?

The opinions vary a lot in this matter, some, I believe, thinking about small guilds, want Guild Halls to be tax free, with no maintenance cost, or without a cost on merits. Others want this to be a long term, organized effort to achieve, with things like having to gather resources from different places and gamemodes (like the idea of using pvp reward tracks to gather resources), should have a maintenance cost and be a way to show others the power, organization and dedication of a guild. Guild Halls could also be prestige things.
I personally believe that the range, and the idea of progression for Guild Halls could embrace all that was stated before, ranging from “easy-to-obtain”, “small” guild halls, to hard to get, more advanced and costly ones.

What else should Guild Halls add to the game?

What is more commonly stated, is that Guild Halls should add convenience apart from the idea of a meeting place, adding things like a guild bank access, armorers, repair, etc. Some doubt that GH should have crafting stations, because we want to avoid the risk of depopulating major cities, so some services should remain exclusive to those places.

There is also the idea of adding more complex systems, like arenas for duels, mini games, new guild activities related to Guild Halls. And that the addition to this systems, should be optional, taking into account that guilds are different, and have different needs.

Good summarization I think. Reading it I only miss two things.

1 Some people suggested zeppelins.

2 Guild-halls, like you say, should create goals and so but in addition to that should also make guilds more part of this game. Give guilds more a place in this game / the world. Not this separate entity it is now.

Side note:
About the taxes. I don’t think anybody really said they wanted taxes but it was mentioned as one of the ways (among others) to prevent guild-halls (if in the open world) to become ghost-houses when the guild would go inactive.

timmyf.1490:

Proposal Overview

Visitor’s Area or Public Room of Guild Halls openly accessible to all players once built/enabled for purposes of recruiting, showing off, etc.

Goal of Proposal

Guilds don’t have a good way to recruit players in-game apart from mapchat. Players who wish to join a guild may not have an easy way to evaluate a guild apart from joining the guild first. Having a Public Room in guild halls could ease the recruiting process for both parties.

Proposal Functionality

The Public Room would be attached to the Guild Hall, though a door with guards would prevent non-representing members from entering (similar to the Royal Terrace guards). The Public Room would contain statues/trophies for the guild to display as well as information about recruiting: a recruiting plaque, perhaps, that players could read.

Guild Halls should incorporate a chat channel which allows for communication with players who are not guild members who visit the Public Room.

The Public Room should be an optional add-on which can be enabled and disabled as the guild leader desires.

There must be kick and block functionality for the Public Room similar to custom PvP arenas.

Associated Risks

Trolling and spamming are the greatest risks, especially between WvW guilds. For that reason, it will be essential for these rooms to be turned off and on as needed. Perhaps a better design would be to allow communication between Visitors and Guild Members only, i.e. block Visitor A from seeing chat from Visitor B.

I said before that guild-halls could be using doors like in WvW castles and that it then would be possible for guilds to choose to have there guild-hall open for everybody (like white doors or and and everybody can use them) or for guild-members only (orange doors, only guild members can enter).

However if you would be able to set this option not only as a guild-hall feature but could do that for every door (this door, guild only, this full access, this guild + alliances) then you would be able to create your own Visitor’s Area the way you want it.

How about that?

Torsailr.8456:

Donari.5237:

or a parachute, whatever.

I’d probably get annoyed if I was forced to watch a cinematic every time I left the airship.

Hmm, or just a thought…would it be possible for a cinematic of jumping out of the airship to replace the loading screen when waypointing?

Yeah that is the hole idea. So you are watching a loading screen or an animation. Only small problem might be the different loading times but even that can be solved by having a short start and ending part of the animation while the middle part can be stretched as long (or short) as needed.

Donari.5237:

A side thought on that, Devata. Boarding/disembarking: what if we got a short cinematic of something carrying us? Be it a dandelion fluff elevator as in the Grove, or a charr ‘copter, or a parachute, whatever. Just something other than pressing a button and getting waypointed. Heck, there could be a few customizations a’la finishers to let guilds or even individuals select their board/debark method.

Yeah I’m always in favor of something like that. If I could have it completely the way I wanted it would really be one big seamless world. For me loading screens (in between zones) are always a negative and immersion breaking distraction. So a visual animation to hide the loading screen when a real open world / no instance is not possible, is always a pro in my book.

Torsailr.8456:

Devata.6589:

Yeah it would be even nicer if we could fly over the current maps. The problem however would be that they then need to make it a seamless world because else so high up you could see over the edge of the maps.

Nah, you wouldn’t need a seamless world for that. Either you place the altitude low enough that you don’t see over the border mountains or you make it high enough that you can place the hall in it’s own sky map. If there’s a sky map you could make it the size of the world map. 90% of the server resources would be in the guild hall, the rest of the map would just be a box with some detailed artwork.

My preference would be the latter. It allows for more of a roaming airship feel, and to put it bluntly, think of the VIEWS! I mean, for whatever faults the game has, it has some amazing artwork. I’d love to see what they could do with that kind of view. While it’d be a lot of work I think it’d be playing to Anet’s strengths if they did it.

The sky map solution I did give before and in my last post I went a little more in depth to that. But my reaction was based on an idea of having them really hover in a map (and maybe fly). Even then you don’t want them to low but go to high and you see the edge of the map.

So the sky map would then make more sense I think but you can still send data from the sky map to the ground map so if you are on the group map you can see the airships in the air. (like I suggested in my previous post).

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Devata.6589:

Pocket.2740:

~

Yeah it would be even nicer if we could fly over the current maps. Problem should however be that they would need to make it a seamless world because else so high up you could see over the edge of the maps.

You know, I was originally going to argue over how unrealistic this was to implement, but it suddenly gave me a spark of a really interesting idea.

So, the base idea here is floating guild halls that you can have physically over a zone, yes? Normally, I would say that’s problematic, and I don’t know if players would like having a guild base hovering over their heads.

However, what if that guild base is tied to a particular instance of a zone? Let’s say you park your guild base on Gendarran Hills. Now, your guild will have an instance of Gendarran permanently open with their guild hall in it.

The intriguing idea… what if you could move your hall, maybe once a week, and whatever zone it’s currently in will give a small bonus to XP/Magic Find/Karma (something like that) to all guild members while they are in that zone. So, movable guild perks for leveling or treasure hunting.

(As for the problem of having a ‘seamless world’, you could just have an artificial cloud cover over anything ‘outside the zone’. Would take up less resources than a seemless world, and would be a lot quicker/easier to implement.)

EDIT: After a bit of further thought, ensuring you’re in the proper instance might be troublesome. I don’t know if there would be a way to match your represented guild to the appropriate instance while gating in, but at the very least, there should be an option to teleport to your guild hall. Then, from there, either have a “move to the ground” option from the guild hall somewhere, or you could probably just waypoint to anywhere in the zone you want.

That could work. Of course it would prevent you from really flying, at least in those maps. Maybe you could go to ‘higher’ maps above the clouds where you could fly but park you guild-hall lower on a map.

You would however still not be able to place a guild-hall near the edge because even with cloawds over the rest it would look really silly.

Mega-servers have been a problem for guild since the start and also for this we will run into problems with it again. Completely removing those problems will not be possible. You could prioritize members to get in the map / instance where there ship is parked but instances also close so what then?

I did come up with a solution to have guild-halls ‘really’ fly over the map but it’s a little harder to explain.. I will do my best.

Basically what you do is move ships up a lot higher (think airplanes in the real world). In reality it are different maps, you are not really hanging high in one of the current maps. But you are so high that when looking down you would not be able to see people walk. You would however see the map (it’s basically a picture of what you would see if the world was seamless).

So that air map or those air maps basically simply show a map of the world far down. Meaning that looking from the guild-hall down it looks like you are flying over the map.

Now for the ground map there will be a change as well. A ground map instance gets ‘linked’ to one of the air map instances and what that map then does is show the current guild halls from the air map at the location it would be but very very high up.

So now from the guild-halls (that you can really fly around in) you can look down and see the map below you and from the ground you can look up and see the guild-halls fly over.

This might sound very complicated but does not have to be so extremely complicated to build.

Pocket.2740:

+1 Guild Airships!

I think ArenaNet should seriously consider this as an opportunity to really innovate the concept of Guild Halls. Not only do Airships really fit the game thematically, I think they could potentially address a few points in a really elegant way:

Non-instanced? Could airships really exist in the real world and bypass the issue of trying to ‘fit’ them into maps. OK so we wouldn’t be able to land them, but they would be there, visible when you look up into the skies complete with guild emblems and upgrades visible to all.

Interaction with other guilds. This could make the idea that you are in a neighbourhood or in alliance with other guilds really dynamic and scalable.

Location matters. Airships could be ported to any map in the game and guilds would be free to make this choice based on RP, accessibility to specific areas (Orr or Frostgorge for example) or in line with seasonal or living story events (Dry Top / Zephyr Sanctum). Each map could also have a unique ‘mooring’ cost as well as unique bonuses – a very basic example could be that parking in a snowy map could reduce chill condition duration by 5%. These things could all make the location of your airship a meaningful choice that can change over time.

Unique upgrades and maintenance – a variety of visual customisations and upgrade options. Mats could be used to generate fuel to be used as a maintenance cost?

WvW- Airships being used in WvW to ferry supplies and guild mates? Provide AoE buffs? Using them in actual combat would probably be a step too far into dreamland.

Yeah it would be even nicer if we could fly over the current maps. The problem however would be that they then need to make it a seamless world because else so high up you could see over the edge of the maps.

Torsailr.8456:

Devata.6589:

Unlock building blocks like walls, doors, windows, and so on. And that level of customization would you not be able to see in a airship. It’s still far of from drawing out the architecture yourselves but go’s further as picking armor and colors for your character (what would be similar to the level of customization you could do with airships I think).

Airships have walls, doors and windows. They also have exterior walls/hulls, balloons/propellers, turrets, etc. Anything you want to customize in a ground building can be customized on an airship.

But it sounds like you’re limiting yourself at the same time. Why not go a step further?

Floating islands with a keep/castle on them?
Maybe go full Asura and have a Borg-like cube in the air?
Or perhaps you want a giant dandelion puff that wanders aimlessly?
Or maybe you had too much candy last Halloween and you think it would be totally awesome to have a glowing spider shaped guild hall made out of dead candy corn elementals?
Or how about a wizards tower on a cloud that rains hearts on LA?

If you want to talk customization why are you limiting your ideas to just a keep? Personally I think most of those previous ideas are possible with some creative reskinning and a handful of floor plans.

Oow that would be fine customizable wise
.
But I would not consider that zeppelins anymore (what people are talking about here right?). It would be more like floating castles or something like the Zephyr Sanctum.

Still wonder if that could also be in the ‘open world’ (new ‘air’ maps and if you can still have a sort of neighborhood what I would like to see.
But maybe the air maps would then be like the see in a way? We fly by each other with PvP air maps) but yeah customizable enough. I just don’t see that as zeppelins and wonder if the people suggesting zeppelins and airships had that in mind?

BTW the WvW castles where just an example. I would expect many walls in many different themes walls and doors and so on. Basically the same sort of things you talk about here. And if that could be in a air maps in stead of a ground map that would be nice to.

So if we could build or own air castles and Zephyr Sanctum and so on I would love that.

What I talked about where customization would not be able to go far enough for my liking would be x models of zeppelins and then some colors to apply yourself.

Torsailr.8456:

Devata.6589:

It’s not that I dislike the airship suggestion but like you say yourself it’s not very customizable and looking at the the other MMO’s have to offer on the part of customization you can’t really ignore that. How hard it might be to implement it. The customization part would however indeed be what would take a lot of work so lets hope that they have already been working on a system for that. Anet must also have been seeing what the market is doing and understand that they can’t stay behind.

I have to disagree with this. An easy way of doing customization is to create 5 or 6 base models, then make some variants for small/medium/large guild halls. Give each model some color channels and you have enough of a starting point to allow re-skinning to create lots of different looks. The basic system works the same way armor does.

More advanced models could be more modular for proposed add ons and modification.

This would be enough customization for a majority of the player base I think. For those that don’t think its enough, they probably won’t be satisfied unless they can draw out the architecture themselves.

I do know what you where getting at and it would give room for some modification and don’t get me wrong I do like the idea of airships but at the same time I still feel the customization would be to limited and that does not only mean you can not customize a lot but it would also mean that the way to unlock those customizations would be limited. Goals for guilds would be to limited.

Thats one of the reasons I am so for customization. Not only (but also) so guilds can really build there own thing and look apart but also to give guilds things to do, things to unlock and things to work towards.

Unlock building blocks like walls, doors, windows, and so on. And that level of customization would you not be able to see in a airship. It’s still far of from drawing out the architecture yourselves but go’s further as picking armor and colors for your character (what would be similar to the level of customization you could do with airships I think).

But then again maybe we can have both. (or something can be added later) Would make sense that guild would also have a ground bases if they have airships don’t you think?

timmyf.1490:

Devata.6589:

“These proposals are the kind that make sense for an MMO 2-3 years from release with a full development team working on them. Not as an add-on for a mature game.”

Well a team is never working on one thing and about it being something for a 2 – 3 years plan.. Well these things have been suggested here on the forums for over 2 years. So that is not really an argument. One would hope and should expect that Anet did pay attention also back then not only at a CDI and so by now they have had time to make much of the elements needed for this. And now that they hopefully already have much of those building blocks a more detailed idea’s can be given here in the CDI for the eventual implementation or changes to what they already have in the background.

People should tell here what they want and expect. Not what they think Anet might be able to create within a few months.

You sure “hope” a lot. Hope is nice, but unless they’ve built a significant codebase for this already – and we’ve seen ABSOLUTELY no indication they have – we’re talking about features here that would take 2, 3, 4 years to develop.

I don’t think that’s the scope ArenaNet intends. But I could be wrong. All the same, you’re welcome to your ideas, and you’re welcome to share them, but if you’re expecting super-customizable halls + player housing, prepare to be disappointed.

The thing you described previously, Devata, the thing you think will disappoint everybody? That’s what I expect we’ll get, more or less.

I know that is what you (and people saying we should keep it in that scope) expect. And it might be true but would not be good imho.

As Chris just confirmed we are free to suggest as we want without boundaries. I do hope people are creative and don’t hold back because they think Anet can not do something (within a given time) but just as I think those things should be suggested you may suggest smaller things.

Lets just stop telling people to not suggest things because they think they can not be done

I also said enough about this now. So will leave it with that.

timmyf.1490:

Ben K.6238:

timmyf.1490:

I get frustrated with the overreaching – Guild Halls as player housing, really? – because making these threads significantly longer and harder to read hurts the discussion and limits the ability for others to participate. When contributors drop 12,000 characters of a proposal that WILL. NEVER. HAPPEN., it just pushes away people with good, small, workable ideas.

Keeping ideas brief and realistic shows respect for the dozens or hundreds of individuals trying to participate.

That’s what the proposal overviews are for – if it doesn’t sound good to you, skip to the next post after that.

- Writers: make sure your overview is a good (hopefully attractive too) introduction.

Look, that’s why I’m still here. I read “guild cities!” and skip to the next one. Saves me enough time that I can keep up without needing 3-4 hours a day. But how many dozens of other people see 10 pages of thousand-word essays and just quit?

These proposals are the kind that make sense for an MMO 2-3 years from release with a full development team working on them. Not as an add-on for a mature game.

That’s not to say they aren’t cool ideas, though!

“These proposals are the kind that make sense for an MMO 2-3 years from release with a full development team working on them. Not as an add-on for a mature game.”

Well a team is never working on one thing and about it being something for a 2 – 3 years plan.. Well these things have been suggested here on the forums for over 2 years. So that is not really an argument. One would hope and should expect that Anet did pay attention also back then not only at a CDI and so by now they have had time to make much of the elements needed for this. And now that they hopefully already have much of those building blocks a more detailed idea’s can be given here in the CDI for the eventual implementation or changes to what they already have in the background.

People should tell here what they want and expect. Not what they think Anet might be able to create within a few months.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’m not sure (at least from what’s garnered on the forums) that the player-base would want to wait a year or two for some of the more grandiose suggestions to be implemented. Some players comment that their patience is just about at an end, already. Thus, something more realistically implemented with, perhaps, room for expansion/additions might be better received and more practical.

Well if people suggest much more then just some easy to implement version I guess that is what they want and just as that some people have their patience being running out, other or the same people expect something more. In fact would you not want the patience being rewarded?

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Devata.6589:

timmyf.1490:

I get frustrated with the overreaching – Guild Halls as player housing, really? – because making these threads significantly longer and harder to read hurts the discussion and limits the ability for others to participate. When contributors drop 12,000 characters of a proposal that WILL. NEVER. HAPPEN., it just pushes away people with good, small, workable ideas.

Keeping ideas brief and realistic shows respect for the dozens or hundreds of individuals trying to participate.

Not sure what you mean with “Guild Halls as player housing” however many people want more as just some small ideas.

And describing into detailed how things could work is only a positive.

We do not know what will happen or will not happen but people know what the competition has and people know what they want so they are free to suggest it and I think if Anet wants to make guild-halls work it would not be some small thing.

I’m sorry, but I think it’s pretty clear that there are a lot of things we know definitely won’t happen. Mostly because the coding behind some of these suggestions is so ridiculous that it would take years to implement, if it’s even feasible to implement into the base code we already have.

Some games have insane amounts of guild hall content, yes, but that’s because they were built from the ground up with that in mind. There’s a huge difference between that, and adjusting what we already have to accommodate guilds. There’s only so much the team can do, and still be able to do other content as well.

You can’t put something in Guild Wars 2 just because “Game X has something similar, so you need to do it too!” Guild Wars is not Game X, Guild Wars is Guild Wars. We need guild housing that actually works and makes sense for this game, not modeling it after impossible standards a different game has already set. And that’s a part a lot of people are missing.

“Describing in detail how it would work” is nice, but unless you understand it from a programming standpoint, you’re never going to realize how some even benign suggestions would be much harder to implement than would suggest. There’s a huge gap between describing how something should work, and actually making something that functions that way.

Oow I am very aware that what many people including me suggest is a lot of work. I am also aware we don’t know what is already in place. Was GW2 not build with that in mind as you say? If I remember correctly guild-halls where planned to be there at release but never made it (not 100% sure). Maybe because it was so much work but they have been working on it on the background?

I don’t say model it after another MMO nor does anybody else, I say make it be able to compete with another MMO’s guild halls. This is a fairly new MMO it should be able to compete with those. “We can not do that” is a really bad excuse for a new MMO.

But lets for a moment do what you say. Stay within the boundaries we know they can because it’s already in the game.

Then guild-halls would look a little like this.

In your guild upgrades there will be a new options.. Guild Hall. You build it using influence to unlock a guild-hall. What you then have is basically a guild instance just just as your home instance but that gives access only to your guild.

After that you can also unlock some additional features in the upgrades. A few vendors and so on. And lastly if we are really lucky then maybe we can also unlock some statues or trophies that get places in that guild-hall (guild instance) just as we now have with some nodes.

Thats basically all you can get if we stay within the boundaries of what the game has at this moment.

And let me tell you, if it would be implemented like that it would be a huge failure. Forums would go red and people keep asking for proper implementations of guild-halls for a long time to come.

So please let not stay in those boundaries. Let hope Anet was smart enough to know that they would need to allow for customization and have been building on that already. And the way to then make guild towns would be a modification of there maps / overflow system.

Kasima.8143:

timmyf.1490:

I get frustrated with the overreaching – Guild Halls as player housing, really? – because making these threads significantly longer and harder to read hurts the discussion and limits the ability for others to participate. When contributors drop 12,000 characters of a proposal that WILL. NEVER. HAPPEN., it just pushes away people with good, small, workable ideas.

Keeping ideas brief and realistic shows respect for the dozens or hundreds of individuals trying to participate.

Agreed. I started reading, but then stopped in the middle of page 2 after the (already) bazillion of unrealistic “player housing” and “guild cities” suggestions.

Keep it realistic and feasible people. Remember that there are thousands of guilds in this game.
The devs are also not looking to write a whole new game. They want to make GUILD HALLS.

You don’t seem to have a lot of confidence in GW2. Many other MMO’s can do it however you think it would not be possible for G2.

Guild cities would be great and it would be very realistic. Not if you expect a patch to implement it next week (well maybe even then if they are already working on it) but technically it is possible. Will it be more work then a boring system with a guild-hall in an instance and a few unlocks. Yes it will be way more work but will also be way better.

And lets hope they do not have to make a hole new game for this but where looking at the competition when creating GW2 and already have much more of this in place then we might know. Not to mention that we hear “they are working on the background on things” for two years now. So that might be things they are working on.

I get frustrated by those people trying to keep it small because you know else it might be harder to make. Be a little more creative. I really hope guild-halls will be more as another home instance. You know there is a reason nobody cares about the home instance.

Those awesome idea’s I see is what gets me and will get many other people exited again about GW2 and guilds and doing things. And thats what we need.

timmyf.1490:

I get frustrated with the overreaching – Guild Halls as player housing, really? – because making these threads significantly longer and harder to read hurts the discussion and limits the ability for others to participate. When contributors drop 12,000 characters of a proposal that WILL. NEVER. HAPPEN., it just pushes away people with good, small, workable ideas.

Keeping ideas brief and realistic shows respect for the dozens or hundreds of individuals trying to participate.

Not sure what you mean with “Guild Halls as player housing” however many people want more as just some small ideas.

And describing into detailed how things could work is only a positive.

We do not know what will happen or will not happen but people know what the competition has and people know what they want so they are free to suggest it and I think if Anet wants to make guild-halls work it would not be some small thing.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Devata.6589:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Devata.6589:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

CDI – Collaborative Discussion Initiative

I, too, worry about small family/friend guilds being shut out of the opportunity to obtain their own Guild Hall. We could all, no matter our size, obtain one in GW1, and over time fill it with NPCs offering all manner of upgrades. I hope to see the same in GW2. It was based on Gold in GW1, it can be based on Influence in GW2, or Gold. But not merits, I hope, because some of the small guilds just can’t raise merits.

It doesn’t matter how fast the large guilds will get their Guild Halls, then, as the whole purpose is to have the Guild Hall and its functions…at least, I would hope so. Otherwise, it will be just like the other Guild-centric content released. Only for those that are of a certain active membership size.

Thank you in advance for considering the small guilds, as well.

But why use a currency at all? Would it not make more sense and more important be much more fun to unlock it with doing thinks with the guild. Like i gave an example before, do a dungeon with only guild-members ir unlock it with doing guild-missions and that sort of things.

Currency is just a little boring. You do some general things and that number then go’s up slowely and then eventually you can buy it.

But if there are ways to directly work for it that makes much more clear things to do and goals to work for with the guild. What should be one of things guild-halls should provide imho.

GW2 is enough currency based. Maybe this can be done different. And that would likely also help smaller guilds out.

And if your guild is not big enough to do what you suggest? Are such guilds just left out, as with guild missions now?

No, in fact what I suggest would be doable for smaller and bigger guilds (likely more so then gold and influence would!). Maybe some parts would not be reachable easy but there will always be a difference between bigger and smaller guilds. That is not a problem in fact that maybe should even be the case.

That said, no it should be easy to unlock your basic guild-hall and after that you can start doing things to unlock more. Things like doing dungeons with guild-members to unlock new building blocks.. Well you need a guild big enough to have 5 people online at the same time to do a dungeon. So even most small guilds would be able to do that don’t you think? So even small guilds can start building on there guild-hall, adding stuff and so on. Maybe they will not be able to get every element huge guilds have but they sure can do a lot and always at least have the basic elements.

You see I am not working with currency’s here but with unlocks and drops in dungeons and so on. So that would be accessible for most guilds.

I think you are over-estimating what small 5-15 man guilds can do. Certainly not dungeon runs. I can’t get enough people interested in doing a dungeon run out of the 15-20 people online at the same time from the 150-person guild I belong to….totally out of the question from my small family/friends guild. It took us many months, many months to garner the influence to complete the guild vault. I would hope that access to a guild hall and its conveniences would not take an inordinate amount of time more. Try to consider all types of players/guilds when imagining how a guild hall might be obtained, and/or upgraded. =)

Oow but I did consider that. Also in our guild it’s hard to find 5 people who want to do the same dungeon. However I also believe that if it is to unlock things for the guild-hall that would change a lot.

That is in fact one of the positives I see here. Guild halls can create end-content when implemented correctly. A dungeon people are not interested in can suddenly become interesting again.

If I now try to get 5 people together to do a dungeons that might be hard but if the goal it to unlock some cool building block or option or feature or whatever for the guild-hall I am pretty sure enough people would be very willing to join and be part of creatung our Guild Hall. Also with smaller family like guilds. Now building up influence indeed would take a lot of time for smaller guilds.

MakubeC.3026:

About customization.

I’d like Chris to talk about this because of the many suggestions I’ve seen here.

In my personal opinion and experience, I think Gw2 was not developed thinking of allowing players to build stuff. This is most likely very difficult and takes a lot of time and effort using Anet’s home-made applications. You can’t just select “menu —> chair --> rotate —> place”. And even if you could, giving these tools to players would need a considerated developing time and effort, making it in simple words, not feasible.

So Chris, I would like to hear about this. Could you please tell us some things and maybe set a more realistic scope for the brainstorming? What does it means “customizable” for you and for the company? Can we talk about spawning statues and trophys in the backyard or should we talk about building whole keeps from scratch?

I started my first post here with that question. But the problem is that it would go against rule 2 of the CDI. So for now I would we can suggest without boundaries.

It comes to this in my option.

Some people here are very ambitious with guild-halls (including me) others are very conservative.

But what you must not for get is that guild-halls do have a lot of potential. They can create end-game. They can create goals and more things to do for guild and the members. They can add something to the world. They can give guilds more a place in this game, they can be a selling point if you do it better then other games. They can really at a lot, they have a lot of potential.

Now you could ignore all that potential because making it that way is hard, you can make an instance with a guild-hall and some upgrades and be one with it (not adding that much to the game) or you could go and try to use all that potential it has.

Baltzenger.2467:

The more I see ideas about “sandbox building” and “plots on cities” the more I feel inclined towards the idea of Guild Airships. It would be unique, it would feel part of the current(right now) universe of GW2, which makes sense, since most “heroes” (aka, players) are commanders of the pact, and airships are a thing, etc.

I don’t think we should expect something super customizable and complex, because when will we get it? in 3 years?
Airship models already exist, for various sizes, allowing you to have different tiers of airships (related to how big your guild is), we even have the example of the “private” airship you can board with the gemstore pass you got during scarlet final invasion. It works.
I think it should be simple, as a starting point, with some services, with some stuff that is useful, and after, if it works, we start thinking on airship battles, or exploration, or whatever your beautiful minds can think of.

As for now, I would like to see airships, on the skies of tyria, representing the guilds, the playerbase. Maybe, for the sake of variation in landscape, we could be able to choose where to “park” the ship, just to have a different background.

Edit: Btw, I think havign to pay a tax or a fee is necessary. We need gold sinks, and encouraging guilds to organize, and be rewarded for doing so, is good for the game. As much as I would like to have my “personal” guild hall, and have it forever, it would take away the value of having one. Don’t be cheap guys.

It’s not that I dislike the airship suggestion but like you say yourself it’s not very customizable and looking at what the other MMO’s have to offer on the part of customization you can’t really ignore that. How hard it might be to implement it. The customization part would however indeed be what would take a lot of work so lets hope that they have already been working on a system for that. Anet must also have been seeing what the market is doing and understand that they can’t stay behind.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Devata.6589:

Realistic as in logic and that has to do with immersion. There really does not have to be a terribly deep rules structure. Simply add maps and they can be added and removed dynamically (you would only need to reserve some place on the map). Inactive guilds can lose there guild-halls so you would not have to end up with abandoned guild halls but you would see the building process. What can be cool to see I can tell you from Landmark (what go’s about 1000 steps further as what people talk about here). Ugly and nice structures is a pro, not a con. That only makes it feel more alive. All the same nice building now that would be boring.

I know you believe I’m just looking for problems but that aside I don’t want guild halls to be a structure that gets removed from inactivity, If my guild builds their guild hall and we all go afk for 3 years I expect it to still be there when I get back, “log in weekly or your progress will be destroyed” things in games really turn me off them.

In my suggestion all you would lose is your building plot. You still have everything you worked for in the form of a blue-print. You come back after 3 years? Find yourself a new plot, place it and you are good to go.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Ugly structures are just ugly if I’m in my guilds hall, it should look like our design as far as the eye can see. As for the chat one of the purposes I see for guild halls is to get piece and quiet away from the ever present stupidity in map chat. I see it as a sealed environment where you have complete control over who and what is present in the space.

If you are in your inside your guild-hall (depending on how you build it) all you can see is your guild-hall. And what is ugly is personal. lets say they put it in an instance then there is an edge of the instance you can see. Something Anet designed. Maybe you also find that ugly. So there is no guarantee everything surrounding your guild-hall is to your likings but that is never the case. Of course you can build you hall near other halls you like.

About the chat. Well then you suggest the option that guild-halls also have the option to block map-chat. I have nothing against that option.

Conski Deshan.2057:

“that is what I talked about that it makes the world feel more alive. Differed structures and some you like while some you hate. I would not want some dictatorship who dictates how all houses look.”

You can have your structure in an instance where I don’t have to look at it, but if it was to be an open world structure some regulation would be needed (I can already see the 5 story high phallic imagery.)
I find dictatorships to be quite fun especially if you’re the one dictating~

Again you have plots and that likely works in in all direction and in addition you work with building blocks. So building a 5 story high phallic imagery might simply not be possible. I do know what you are afraid of. I did some Landmark and there the possibilities where so extreme, you could really build everything. Did it happen that my neighborhood had an ugly building? Yes, and the other building had an extreme cool looking building. It really was awesome to see the differences. Now I don’t expect anything even close to that in GW2 but I can tel you that the freedom is a positive, not a negative.

However the freedom even in my suggestion would be limited in GW2. There are building blocks and you would not be able to let a wall float in the air (as an example), and there is a space in what you can build that is limited. So it should not be as big of a problem as you seem to fear.

The fact that other people look at it only gives you more reason to make a cool looking guild-hall. Having it in an instance would take away that.

Conski Deshan.2057:

fun fact

hide spoiler

In an MMORTS called beyond protocol I once went on a solar system wide genocidal campaign because I wanted a planets base designed my way and others did not appreciate me wiping out everyone elses structures to do so. This was my first week in-game and a 30 player alliance attempted to stop me, two months later I had killed every last one of them and destroyed every last structure on 17 planets along with any unfortunate by-standing players . All over a difference in aesthetics

Well that would not be possible in GW2 i’m afraid.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

I think your expectations for how this system would work are horribly under-thought, but arguing over how plausible this would be isn’t going to get us anywhere. So, keep going with your idea, but I’ll tell you now it’s completely ridiculous to think something like this might ever appear in the game. If the game was being built from the ground up to accommodate guilds? Maybe. But, as a tack-on system, I just don’t think it’s feasible without a LOT of time and effort going into it. Like, an entire separate expansion’s worth of time and effort.

Multiple of the system already exist and would only need to be modified. Overflow servers, WvW has elements. And they might have also worked on things already.

Sure you could go for the most basic idea. Instance guild-hall you unlock maybe some upgrades and be done with it.

That would be the easy way out and the most boring one. But also one that would set the forums and negative feedback on red again because they did go for the most basic implementation.

You are in a time where there are other mmo’s that offer (guild) housing to an even much more detailed level then what people are suggesting here. That is what you are competing with.

Yes maybe it should be put in an expansions. That is an option I even suggested here before.

But really while technically the ‘easy way out’ is the most doable. It’s really not an option because it would make GW2 lack there compared to many other MMO’s.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Devata.6589:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

CDI – Collaborative Discussion Initiative

I, too, worry about small family/friend guilds being shut out of the opportunity to obtain their own Guild Hall. We could all, no matter our size, obtain one in GW1, and over time fill it with NPCs offering all manner of upgrades. I hope to see the same in GW2. It was based on Gold in GW1, it can be based on Influence in GW2, or Gold. But not merits, I hope, because some of the small guilds just can’t raise merits.

It doesn’t matter how fast the large guilds will get their Guild Halls, then, as the whole purpose is to have the Guild Hall and its functions…at least, I would hope so. Otherwise, it will be just like the other Guild-centric content released. Only for those that are of a certain active membership size.

Thank you in advance for considering the small guilds, as well.

But why use a currency at all? Would it not make more sense and more important be much more fun to unlock it with doing thinks with the guild. Like i gave an example before, do a dungeon with only guild-members ir unlock it with doing guild-missions and that sort of things.

Currency is just a little boring. You do some general things and that number then go’s up slowely and then eventually you can buy it.

But if there are ways to directly work for it that makes much more clear things to do and goals to work for with the guild. What should be one of things guild-halls should provide imho.

GW2 is enough currency based. Maybe this can be done different. And that would likely also help smaller guilds out.

And if your guild is not big enough to do what you suggest? Are such guilds just left out, as with guild missions now?

No, in fact what I suggest would be doable for smaller and bigger guilds (likely more so then gold and influence would!). Maybe some parts would not be reachable easy but there will always be a difference between bigger and smaller guilds. That is not a problem in fact that maybe should even be the case.

That said, no it should be easy to unlock your basic guild-hall and after that you can start doing things to unlock more. Things like doing dungeons with guild-members to unlock new building blocks.. Well you need a guild big enough to have 5 people online at the same time to do a dungeon. So even most small guilds would be able to do that don’t you think? So even small guilds can start building on there guild-hall, adding stuff and so on. Maybe they will not be able to get every element huge guilds have but they sure can do a lot and always at least have the basic elements.

You see I am not working with currency’s here but with unlocks and drops in dungeons and so on. So that would be accessible for most guilds.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

@Devata – The reason things you mention work in the real world is that — it’s the real world. We’ve had hundreds of years to nail down regulations, rulings, and as always, there is more room to expand if you can do things yourself.

As much as you apparently want GW2 to be more “realistic” with guild halls, there’s the problem. This game is already a far cry from realism. There are so many things you want to do with the guild halls that won’t be possible without either a terribly deep rules structure — which will be so in-depth and limiting that people would hate it — or many things would have to be done by the developers every time you wanted a change, which they just would not have the schedule to do, making it completely unfeasable.

If you want to put guild halls in the open world, we will run out of room, likely quickly. And we will have issues with structures looking ugly. Why? Because you’ll have small guilds or personal guilds, where people will put up a guild hall, make a huge mess with it, and then never get around to fixing it up. It will just stay a sore on the map for the rest of the game’s life.

Realistic as in logic and that has to do with immersion. There really does not have to be a terribly deep rules structure. Simply add maps and they can be added and removed dynamically (you would only need to reserve some place on the map). Inactive guilds can lose there guild-halls so you would not have to end up with abandoned guild halls but you would see the building process. What can be cool to see I can tell you from Landmark (what go’s about 1000 steps further as what people talk about here). Ugly and nice structures is a pro, not a con. That only makes it feel more alive. All the same nice building now that would be boring.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Devata.6589:

Well you consider it horrible. I consider putting them in an instance horrible. Go to a loading screen and load into your guild-hall. Oow how immersive and how creative. That just does not belongs in a modern MMO. And you say it would look ugly. Why? Because everybody builds what they like. Thats just as in real life, many houses look different some you like some you think are ugly. Things also change. Thats something Anet would want if they talk about a living world. Like I said, that is more living world then the whole LS and all events combined.

If I get what you mean, you want a physical location (say a place like stonemist) and just have it so that the doors don’t allow people not in your guild to enter? Is that what you mean?

Yes, with the addition / difference that you yourself build that physical location. You get building blocks and would then be able to build something like SM indeed.

Conski Deshan.2057:

That has massive problems.
How do you address there being enough guild halls for everyone?
Do people get to build in the open world? or are you imagining new specific build zones which are a really bad idea because they become ghost towns?
Do they get to customize the exterior? If so how do you prevent horrific looking structures? If they don’t then isn’t everyone stuck with the same boring hall?
Your idea has the guild sharing map chat with the whole map how do you address that?

I imagining new specific build zones that would not become ghost towns because if a guild becomes inactive they lose there spot. Now if there are 3 maps and 2 are half empty you can give guilds the option to move to the other map. Using the blue-prints. That should easily solve the problem of ghost towns. And the number of maps can even be partly dynamic. More guilds means more maps open and if a map is really getting empty with just a few guilds left they can be forced to move to one of the maps where there is space so the empty map can be closed of.

“Do they get to customize the exterior? If so how do you prevent horrific looking structures?” Yes. What is the problem with horrific looking structures? That is part of a neighborhood. That is what I talked about that it makes the world feel more alive. Differed structures and some you like while some you hate. I would not want some dictatorship who dictates how all houses look. Sure also such neighborhoods exist in reality but personally I prefer those where all buildings looks different. Nice ones and ugly ones. I see that as a positive, not a negative.

“Your idea has the guild sharing map chat with the whole map how do you address that?” Not sure what you mean with that. You can still use map chat there yes? However what I was thinking about before is that you could make some guild-hall chat option. Basically that means that if you are in a guild-hall the chat is only visible for people inside that same building / plot.

You seem to be thinking in problems.. and that is good, I do the same. But then also make the next step of thinking of solutions for those problems.

Conski Deshan.2057:

Take a step back and realistically look at the current guildwars 2 world, there is no way you can implement the guild halls into the open world without severely gimping them.

No you would make new maps for them or do it like Retro suggested. But no I agree with you, you would not place them freely in the maps we already have.

Conski Deshan.2057:

In a cost to benefit I will take an instance 100% of the time if it allows proper large guild halls with all the functions,features and customisbility .

It would be more work but I would think it would be worth it. It would make the world feel more like a living world and give guilds more a place in the game plus it would also give more reasons for guilds to try and get the best looking guild-hall. So I think the benefits easely outway the extra work.

Kalidri.5427:

The concept of the Mists allows a lot of latitude in guild placement. I also enjoyed the concept of neighborhoods in LotrO (they did many social things right). I see two kinds of guilds – non upkeep guilds that provide a guild hall with the features people are looking for – you build them and there are no taxes etc, they never go away and are very much like the original GW1 halls. Upkeep halls have a zone and location in the mists.

- Non upkeep guild halls would be connected to a city or other location in Tyria (I see the five main cities and the three orders being a good start). These are the basic guild halls that anyone with enough work can get and your work is never lost.

Upkeep guilds:

- Have neighborhoods in the mists each populated by maybe 10-20 guilds.

- Allow guilds to pick a pvp or pve neighborhood.

- Have a large, connected landscape between the guilds that can be explored for resources OR be a battleground between these guilds. PvE instances would have a boss scale monster requiring some effort – based on the aggregate size of the guilds in the neighborhood. PvP instances could have something to capture, a goal to reach or a kill point system. Activities in the shared zone would add rep and merits to respective guilds.

- Guild entrances will appear in the style of hall that they picked and have a neutral or defensible area around them.

- Invited guests and visitors can come fight and play with guilds in these areas.

- moving out of a neighborhood should be easy if you find you don’t mesh with it. Perhaps alliances might be possible where you get together and form an instance with them for greater profit and fun. This would allow communities by server, wvw, RP, PvE, PvP, gvg etc.

- If a guild becomes inactive in a neighborhood (hate to say it, taxes), it reverts to a non upkeep hall. This insures that an active guild can take its place and keep the neighborhood lively. It allows guilds to take a break, come back, pay up and return to a neighborhood if they want.

Cons: This would be a monster to manage sorry

About the taxes. The problem with that is that or it’s so high that people are force to grind for it what makes the game feel more like a grind and is not fun, or it’s so low that is does not really matter anyway.

Maybe simply make it so that from a guild a members has to be online at least once every 2 weeks? I they don’t there spot will be lost (but they will keep the blue-print of there guild-hall)

krosis.7598:

Along the lines of “make it physical”, I would LOVE to see a physical representation for when a guild is busy “building” a guild element, whether a literal house portion or working their way to a Guild Bank. Workers milling about, scaffolding, each in the right “area” of the guild housing to show what’s being worked on, without having to dive into a menu.

How about making it so that part of it needs to be done by guild-members? So you see guild-members running around building things?

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Devata.6589:

-snip-

Okay, hold on. You’re still talking about an instanced guild hall. It’s just a building that you have to walk to to get into your instance. From what it sounds like, no matter what guild you’re in, you’d walk to this guild hall, and then it would teleport you to the appropriate guild hall instance for your guild.

No. Compare it to the castle in WvW. It’s not an instance however access is still limited to my server and if we go into the lord room we do have our privacy where no other servers can see us (while they can still see us we we are outside.. but that just depends on how you build the guild-hall). Now guild halls would work the same but in stead of allowing only people from your server in it gives access based on some rules you can set. Like open access, or only guild-members. The color of the door would indicate who has access just as in WvW. For example a orange door means only guild-members can walk in. A white one means everybody can walk in. That system already exist so should not be to had to modify to work for guild-halls one would think.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Either that, or you’re talking about putting buildings for each individual guild into the world. Which… would be awful, for many, many reasons. There are hundreds of guilds in the game. Can you imagine how quickly guild halls would fill up maps? They would look ugly and be in the way, and it would just be horrible.

Well you consider it horrible. I consider putting them in an instance horrible. Go to a loading screen and load into your guild-hall. Oow how immersive and how creative. That just does not belongs in a modern MMO. And you say it would look ugly. Why? Because everybody builds what they like. Thats just as in real life, many houses look different some you like some you think are ugly. Things also change. Thats something Anet would want if they talk about a living world. Like I said, that is more living world then the whole LS and all events combined.

Some other MMO’s do the same with player housing and there are more players as guilds. So if that is possible why would it not work with guild-housing?

However there are of course many ways to do it. You only talk about having maps that basically allow free to build. What I would be fine with but there are some other solutions. I did point to Retro’s solution before https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Guilds-Guild-Halls/first#post4454383 because thats also a way to do it without having open world maps with guild-halls. It is basically a compromise between an instanced guild-hall and a open world guild-hall. Where everybody has it in an instance but you have the ability to also be put in the open world for like a week.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

One way around that would be to make a zone JUST for guild halls, like a “guild district” in major cities. But, that would be… weird. And you would have to make sure you warped into the correct map instance every time, because it couldn’t dynamically load up your guild halls into this map zone with a dozen or two dozen other dynamically updated guild halls. It would likely load up a guild hall for whoever entered that instance first, which means they’d fill up quickly. And I don’t even want to know how changing your represented guild while in the guild district would affect that…

Why would that be weird. Isn’t it more weird that we have all these players and all these guilds but they have no place where they live and no guild-halls? If anything is weird that is imo. Again look at real life. There are area’s with malls, there are forest but there are also places where they build houses. It makes perfect sense.

Loading into the correct map would be a technical difficulty but should also not be that hard to fix. There are a few solutions. Like base it on the server (so no mega-server for those maps) and then simply add enough maps / place to give all guilds a guild-hall. When you would work with a overflow like system (what I would not like so much because then it’s still basically an instance. And if Anet would ever plan on meaning seamless zones you then have a new problem) you simply load into the server that has the guild-hall of the guild you are representing at that time. Changing your guild would not do anything until you reenter the map. But again I think making enough space in multiple maps and being server-based would be better because else it would still ber a form of an instance. But it would be a possible compromise.

Darmikau.9413:

Can somebody explain the proposals for non-instanced Guild Halls to me? The entire point of the system is to provide an area specifically for your guild removed from the rest of the world. Non-instanced Guild Halls already exist; going somewhere on the map and telling your guild to meet you there. Guild Halls don’t need to exist on the map, and they don’t need to allow random players to stumble upon them. They need to be built specifically to the exclusion of non-guild members.

There are some good ideas in here, but honestly, the Guild Hall system from GW1 is all the game needs, with some GW2 polish. In that respect, I can’t fathom why anyone would want to take up actual space on the map for Guild Halls, let alone have them be accessible to non-members of the guild, with the exception of guesting.

I am very willing to explain that. Having it in an instance does not give the same effect as it does having it in the open world (and there are multiple ways to do that).

Yes it is a place to hang out privately but the fact that a guild-house is in the open world would not mean everybody can walk in. You can still have your privacy inside.

They can walk by. And only if you allow people to get in they can get in.
Being able to build / customize your own guild-halls should be a part of it and then it becomes even more interesting to have it in a place where people walk by and see other guilds buildings.

It would also add much more to the immersion. What is nicer? Walking to your guild-house or stepping into some portal and loading into your guild-house?

Most important hover is having those guild-houses in the open world would make guilds also much more a part of the game then what now is the case. Guilds have almost no role in the game what is a little strange for a game named Guild Wars (yes I know the lore behind it). Having guild-houses be really a part of the game (meaning they are in the open world) it would also give guilds themselves more a part in the game.

Besides it would also fit into what Anet has been talking about. A living world. Having player housing or guild-housing in the open world would make it feel more like a living world then the LS en all the events bind together. I guess you could say it would be the GW2 way of doing it. You can’t keep talking about a living world if the real elements of a living world (human customization / live) it put away in some instance. That would be a cheap way out that does not fit the game.

MakubeC.3026:

That Guy.5704:

Q1: What should a guild hall contain?

A hall should have access to crafting, guild and personal banking, a merchant, a guild commendation trader and a trading post. This is all simply what can be found in borderlands with a couple guild specific items. Since alot of people use borderlands for their banking and crafting anyway, I dont see any of these additions as being of any great extra benefit and, thus, should be a part of a typical hall that is, they should be either included in a “starter hall” or be relatively easy to get/build.

Can’t agree with this. Sure, it would be nice, but you need not to only see the player’s needs, but to address as well Anets needs and vision as a company. Remember they have the Royal pass and the Airship pass which they seel for gems. For that reason they cannot just give it for free cause we want it. Not to count the impact that will have on major cities concurrencie. The most we could expect to get is a purchased, temporal module with all crafting stations and some NPCs for 300 gems for 48 hours.

That Guy.5704:

This could also be a place where, for some upfront cost but without the recurring cost, a permanent, though potentially smaller pvp arena could be built. This may not be a full 5v5 size arena, but perhaps something where you could do as many as 3v3 (or maybe even a larger room with an “every man for himself” mechanic large enough for a large guild to all participate. Interesting maps might include a bar brawl (no weapons just environment objects like bottles, tables, chairs), maybe something similar set in a farm. I am not big on pvp, but these things sound fun to me anyway. Of course, people should be able to invite non guild members into their hall and pvp area.

This is by no means all inclusive just some items.

Same again, if they implement this, the rates for their Personal Arenas would drop. It’s not feasible. The most we should expect, if anything, is 1vs1 or GvsG.

Well there focus on the cash-shop is always a problem for these sort of things. And yes because if that they would be more tend to do it the way you explain.

But lets not forget this game was supposed to be a B2P game so free of those sort of things. (thats even wait they said in the beginning, just some boosters and costumes will be in the cash-shop) That means we are not out of line of asking for this. In fact, they would be out of line implementing it that way.

Now I have seen many great suggestions here and most are also pretty big. So thinking on how Anet would benefit from this other then the fact that it would likely be a boost for the number of players and help to keep players playing. They could sell it in an expansions. Like you could expect from a B2P game.

MakubeC.3026:

Devata.6589:

MakubeC.3026:

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Why do you think to get it right they need to be instanced. Or for that matter why do you think any of the other things you suggest need to be in to get it right?

With all due respect, it just wouldn’t work in the open world. The main reason why GH are asked for is for guilds to have a private zone on which to gather without being interrupted. Futhermore, how could they make a customizable space for thousands of guilds with dozens of thousands of players in the open world?

Then again, do your research on ArchAge and maybe play it a while. You’ll see why is it such a bad idea.

As for the other points, having a communal building for all guilds would be inmersion breaking, as well as not having themes for it. Being able to customize your GH is a must have, you just need to read the thread.

Tiering GH is also something very important since its a form of progression, something required in MMOs.
I’ll give you the sparring area, maybe this is not as necessary as the others. I just wanted to draw attention with the wording :P
But the guild mate information is also vital because that’s the whole point of GHs: interacting with your guild members.

“The main reason why GH are asked for is for guilds to have a private zone on which to gather without being interrupted.”

I don’t know if that is the main reason. For me it’s part of the reason but so it having a goal, having a meaning with the guild, make guilds more part of the game. That would all work much better it the halls would be in the open world.

“Futhermore, how could they make a customizable space for thousands of guilds with dozens of thousands of players in the open world? ” There have been multiple suggestion made for that. Special maps (like in some other games) or using instances with guild-halls but showing some of them on the open world map and changing that ever week (so this week instance one is not an instance but part of the open world and next week is instance 2). That was how Retro suggested it.

“Then again, do your research on ArchAge and maybe play it a while. You’ll see why is it such a bad idea.” I did and it works a little different there but I don’t think it’s bad there. There they do it also with player housing and seeing houses pop up making the world really feel alive (what GW2 said it wanted) and the world will look different every time. I agree it also has some problems there but it would still be an example how why it could be good not why it would be bad imho.

With the other points I agree with you that they would be good especially not being forced into using a theme. In reality people could also build what they want so a mix would only make the world feel more alive. I guess the other points I do agree with I was just wondering why you would think guild halls would not be right when it would not be implemented.

But I do agree except for the sparring area that would not be necessary I think and the upgrading I do think is good but I would see it more as unlocking building blocks. The way you describe it lets me think more of the way you tier up castles in WvW in a predefines way. What I think would be sort of boring.