Guild Wars 2

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Like create a teq mini game, and you can get teq skins from that mini game. That would 3 options to get the same skin. (including gold option to buy the skin)

And i bet in that moment people would cry : now we have to grind this mini game for those token AND grind the other options. Since whenever we get more options some people directly think they have to do ALL of them

well, they could do the teq mini game and teq itself. that would increase their chance of a skin by 2 afterall :P.
I just think this game really needs more options outside of gold.
I also totally agree that keeping things entirely rng and to one content only, is a bad idea. (anything relies on luck is bound to kitten a large number of players off, precursors are a perfect example).

I would like multiple options for everything, for this game to truly feel grind free.

I’m always open for more options .. i’m only against all thing that give me less options and try to force me to play a specific content that i don’t like, because else i am not able to get a specific item.

But in the end if Option A is to run Dungeon x 1-1000 times to get an item, or do maybe 30 hours random stuff like worldevents, champ trains, harvest platinum and lemongrass .. i would always take that over option A

In hours it will be about the same. It would depend a little on how many people do the specific content. Let’s say it’s a very popular dungeons people just do a lot there will be more people getting the mini (also while they do not want it) so it will cost less on the TP meaning your grinding gold will go faster. If it’s behind content that almost nobody does then those doing it are likely people that do it for that item and so the number of those on the TP will be higher meaning you would need to grind longer then you would have to do that content to get that item.

On everage it would be the same thing however. And for your image.. somebody is not doing the dungeon1 – 1000 times. He still does different things as he is likely working towards different items.

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Ok let me rephrase;
the main problem isn;t the grind, it’s that it’s the SAME grind for everything ingame.

And personally, as someone who never has luck with RNG i like that much more because when i grind for gold i can play whatever content i want and see a constent progress, while when i need to grind maybe Mob X for item Y i can do that 100 hours and in the end get nothing. And of course i don’t have the choice to play whatever content i like and must maybe play what i really dislike if i want that item.

No,
If you want one specific mini that is account-bound then yes you need to do that specific content. But first of all I am not saying that they all should be account-bound. Some might be many won’t. So grinding your gold is still an option for most of them. (just like now)

The gold-grind will also not help you to be more likely to get it. The amount of gold you make often still depends partly of RNG. And if a mini drops 1 in a 100 times then you can be pretty sure you have it before you did it 100 times.

To get the correct amount of money you might also need to do something else about 100 times. So that does not change a thing.

Stuff that is hard but gives a guaranteed drop would most likely be account-bound.

VOLKON.1290:

kitten we’re spoiled. Used to be MMOs would release maybe a months worth of content every four to six months and people would lap it up. Now people are so used to having new things to do every two weeks that withdrawal symptoms are setting in. Perspective people! Perspective!

The opposite. I am having more fun (with the exception that the mega-server causes problems for the game) now then when they have those Ls patches. I did have periods of more fun and that was always when they had a break or almost no LS. During SAB 1, SAB 2 was also at a break combined with the Tequatl patch, just after Wintersday and now.

Most people here are not complaining about not having a LS patch but they are asking when we will get a real expansion (-like content). Maybe might have expected that as the finally of S1 but that did not happen. And now almost 2 years after the release there is still no new about good new content coming up. That is what many people here complain about, not about having no LS patch for a few weeks.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

The developers are heads-down working on the future content releases. We are also in the middle of launching the game in China. Launching a game in a new country is kind of a big deal. Because of the team’s focus on game development, they are not able to dedicate as much time out of their workday to posting on the forums. While they might have time to read the forums, they don’t necessarily have time to engage in discussion.

I know it’s hard to be patient in this down time between Living World seasons, but please bear with us. As much as you’re craving new content to play, the team is dying for you to play it.

Unfortunately, I can’t give you any information about future content, whether it’s plot spoilers or timeline. I can say that, as a player, I am very excited about the next season, and I cannot wait to see what you all think about it.

Please know that your feedback continues to be important, our devs are still reading (though they may not have time to respond), and we sincerely appreciate your support and you sharing all your thoughts with us (critical or otherwise).

Thank you for your response.

Personally I don’t mind there is no next season yet. I tent to like the game better without a ‘do it now or miss out forever’ feeling. But I would love to see an expansion with some great permanent content in the future.

Galen Grey.4709:

~

Challenge helps but so does rarety and working towards it even if it’s less challeging.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

“for this scenario to happen you’d have to skip that boss entirely” huh? You skip it? Why would you skip it?

well if you didnt skip it you’d have your mini already no?

Only if it was a ganranteed drop. Else if the drop-rate would be 1/100 it’s likely you still don’t have it.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

However I want to state again that indeed that would be true if you level up and then come back. However you can and should do the same for content at your level.

I agree but if you do that they you’ll never come back and fight this boss again would you? in which case its not that different then temp content in gw2.

No because the boss still have that mini to offer that you want that the stuff at your level do not drop. So you have a reason to do both.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

As an example, I likely did Molten Facility more then any of the other dungeons together and I had fun doing it. (did the pirate one also a lot) Motivations where the mini and the back-pack. That btw never dropped and then they removed the dungeon increasing my then already existing hate for temporary content.

well thats a bummer I totally agree. Its never nice when you dont win the lottery but its also what makes the lottery so sweet when you win. Everything has its cost.

No, there is nothing sweet about it being temporary. You do it more then eventually you get rewarded for it. That is sweet. Having stuff you like being removed from the game is not even close to sweet imho.

Monsteratic.5487:

You can waypoint almost anywhere you want and you have the audacity to suggest mounts?!
/facepalm

Did you even read the thread?

Anyway, one outfit works just fine but still Anet puts in many different skins.. /facepalm

Just for the record, that was sarcasm.

Gibson.4036:

vikkival.2459:

You’re not only asking for Anet to do this but you are also going against a group of people who don’t want it vs when someone suggest something (precursor crafting) and a majority of people agree.

Yes. There are things that are more universal to the community than mounts. Even on my personal list of things I want Arena Net to do in the game, mounts are pretty low in priority.

But I don’t think anyone here is saying “implement mounts next week”, even though we’ve had at least one post inform us that ArenaNet is too busy with the launch in China to implement mounts.

And I haven’t heard anyone say that mounts should be added before precursor crafting, or the option to turn off right-click targeting, or making pets useful in large scale fights, or first person view, or even player housing.

It’s just a “we’d like mounts in the game” thread, not “mounts are the most important thing this game needs”.

Turn of right click to target has been implemented half a year ago. Still a year to late but it’s there.

For when would I like it. In the first or maybe second expansion depending on what the expansion has to offer. If the first expansion would have guild housing and personal housing where you can really build the house. If it would have a lot of stuff to do for guilds, a new race, a new profession and a new continent I would be fine without mounts for that expansion (however mounts would be interesting for a new continent). If it has new maps, a new race and maybe one or two new things to do for guilds than I would like to see mounts to make it more complete. (I keep thinking in expansions as that is the way I like it. But convert that to your preferred way of implementation if you like).

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

With your argument there would be no reason to add any new fun content and all we get would be for QoL patches.

…i have already addressed that in this discussion, several pages ago. I will quote it back:

Any new introduction to the game needs to be weighted in terms of necessity (does the game needs it?), desirability (do the people want it? are the people against it?) and difficulty (how hard it is to implement). For something to be done, the first two need to outweight the third.

What you are speaking now is the second point (desirability). Fun content worth introducing is the one that is fun to majority, or one that is fun for significant number of players and has no strong opposition.

Mounts are a content that is indeed fun to some, but so far there is nothing to suggest that it fulfills one of those criteria. Quite the opposite, in fact.

In short, you were unable to prove so far that it is indeed a fun content. Only, that it is fun personally to you. Those are not the same.

Yeah and you said that

So again, by your definition, new content would never be introduces because there will always be people want wanting it and they outweighs those wanting it.

No. reread what i wrote. It works that way here, because those that want mounts are not in majority (or at least nothing points to them being in one).

So, to rephrase what you said so it actually follows what I have said:

“If something that is not in the game and there are people who want it for fun and there are people who do not want it, and there is at least as many people that do not want it, then the not wanting out-waits the wanting because it takes away more fun that it brings”.

Pretty sure you are wrong about that majority part. It would be a huge selling point for an expansions because so many people are interested in it.

Safer Saviour.9685:

However, it doesn’t force you into clearing every corner of the map, nor does it punish you for wanting to take a break.

You must be talking about another game.

In GW2 getting map completion is a list of points you need to walk by or interact with. A big list.

In GW2 during the LS if you take a break you miss out on events, content and rewards.. for ever.

Anyway, not mount related.

Phadde.7362:

Safer Saviour.9685:

So what you’re suggesting is a second healthbar and evasion tool. That’s very much an unbalanced, poor idea ……..

….. This game was not designed to support mounts and were mounts added, every aspect of the game would need to be restructured…

Why not just make it so that if you even get hit while on a mount, your mount would be dismissed and you would be dazed for 2 seconds. Nothing else has to change to maintain a balance.

If I remember correctly that is how WoW did it? So I think many will not like that solution, simply because WoW did it. Personally I think there would be cooler ways. There is also a game (can’t remember what) where if you ride a horse and it gets spooked it throws you of the back and runs away.

Safer Saviour.9685:

joneb.5679:

NPCS already get overcrowded so you cant access them easily. A change to a label that came to the front of everything else on screen would help. Also faster travel to me is fair when a player has put in time getting 100% explorers.

As I said earlier, I have completed the world four times already and am fairly close to a fifth. A speed boost is a horrible idea and no amount of exploration could ever earn it.

The reason for this is that speed offers a clear advantage in combat, particularly in a combat system that is as active as Guild Wars 2’s. Position plays a valuable part in encounters, as does kiting, dodging and just simply stepping out of those beloved red circles. Runes and skills that help with speed are seen as particularly valuable as a result. Creating a speedboost device in mounts would serve to unbalance all of these systems Anet has worked hard to hold together. As such, if mounts are ever added, it is deeply unlikely that they will come with any gameplay adantages, speed included.

For those who are unaware: in Guild Wars 1, there was a mission, and a region, that gave players mounts. These mounts were desert wurms which swallowed toons and replaced all character skills with wurm skills. The wurms were needed to move through a highly toxic area of desert and could not tunnel through rock, only sand. Consequently, they could not be owned or taken out of that region. Were GW2 to add mounts, I would expect a system akin to this as it’s far easier to balance and design and less disruptive to every aspect of the game, unlike ‘regular mounts’ would be.

Then simply don’t make combat mounts (seemed like that was what Colin was more interested in btw) and dismount or at least don’t be able to fight when on a mount.

That would fix all balancing problems.

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

which is the ONLY way to get your legendary.

Why are people always so obsessed about Legendarys ? You don’t need them, they are also just skins and most of them are ugly IMHO.

I think it’s only an example. The fact that you don’t need it does not matter. It’s a game so it’s mandatory in total.

Nerelith.7360:

Phadde.7362:

The Waypoint system kind of makes mounts obsolete for traveling, and it’s already built into the game’s core. It would be useful while leveling as you generally don’t have many WPs. Once could increase the costs of WPs, but I think the solution should be do increase the need for Mounts in some way without making something else worse.
I could see myself use it for shorter distances (while easily getting the Gathering daily on the way.)

I don’t know how to make mounts practical. However their main value lies in cosmetics, which they would be great for! Their sheer size makes a lot of space for awesome details and effects!

Edit: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-is-almost-EVERY-WAYPOINT-Contested

Then you’d have Players Griefing others by parking them on NPC’s and preventing them from accessing bank, and BL traders.

The BIG issue is.. a cosmetics onlu mount could work…if I get offered the option of Hiding Mounts before Character select. The issue then becomes players want Visual Bling that they can show off, to show they have Giobs of Gold.." look at me In My HUGE Assed Broodmother..am I Not epic?" " oh? Broodmother? sorry dude I’;m hiding mounts." " oh… that sucks for me..I can’t show off My huge Broodmother to everyone."

Then you have " Must have perma speed boost" never gonna happen.

I did make suggestions about temporary speed boosts balanced against other skills. But seems No one wants Limits On their speed boost… which is a reason it’s never gonna happen as most players desire.

A lot of players want a perma-speedboost. Not gonna happen. But hey…everyone is allowed to want things… even the dead men in hell want snowcones.

Just like all those big Norns that are trolling everybody. Dismount in city’s or / and inside building. Problems solved. It’s not a big problem in MMO’s with mounts and it;s not a big problem with Norns in GW2. So why would it suddenly have to be a problem with mounts?

Weren’t you the one complaining that people used there opinions as facts. Well, “Not going to happen” might be a fact, but might not be fact, only future will tell so for now it’s your opinion that you state as a fact.

Just saying.

Nerelith.7360:

Wetpaw.3487:

AtlasSi.9130:

No. This isn’t WoW. Stop trying to turn it into that.

Rogue to Thief
Paladin to Guardian
Warrior to Warrior
Warlock to Necromancer
Hunter to Ranger
Mage to Elementalist

All of these classes existed in EverQuest before even WoW existed, so they are not a feature that would be making Gw2 More Like World of Warcraft, just more like an MMO.

Dagger, bow, GS, staff, shield, sword, 1h axe, gun, 2h mace (hammer), wand (scepter)

Hearthstone to Waypoint

light, medium, heavy armor

Similarly… all of this existed before World of warcraft.

Transmog to Wardrobe

I think the devs already beat the players when it comes to taking a concept from WoW. Lets not pretend this is a unique snowflake to the mmo genre, taking an idea from another game that has worked well is nothing new, WoW has done it and so has GW2.

Except everything you mentioned has been in MMO’s before World of warcraft. Fact is, they were in MMO’s before there were MMO Anyone remember paper and pencil games Like Dungeons and Dragons?

Mounts would be a great addition to GW2.

Simply opinion, one not shared by many.

The thing is, World of Warcraft was not the first MMO, but mounts are.

1. Unecessary
2. Undesired
3. a use of resources that can better go elsewhere.

and

4. Would make this thread # 459,862 that seeks to introduce an element that would turn this even MORE into a WoW clone.

Mounts. Trinity. End game raiding. Dedicated Healer. Dedicated tank, etc etc etc

For those that miss World of Warcraft that game is still around, go play World of warcraft.

For those that seek something close to World of Warcraft…. go play those.

I am sure there are tons of games with mounts. This isn’t one of them, and that’s the way we like it.

PS: I know many people will now say " But look at the millions that play World of Warcraft… it’s a great game." No…. it is a simple game that has appealed to the LCD.

McDonald’s has also served BILLIONS that doesn’t make it a great restaurant chain. If I had to choose between them and Red Lobster…. I would not be munchin’ down on a Big Mac.

But for those who’se first dining experience was a McDonald’s that never visited a Red Lobster, I can understand why they would walk into one, and ask.." Happy Meal?"

Haha yeah indeed, all those elements you talk about in the beginning of your post where in games long before WoW.
Because of that you can’t say it’s a WoW-clone or you want to copy WoW or whatever.

BTW, so where mounts and much other stuff like raids and the trinity. The stuff you talk about at the end of your post.

However if any of those come up suddenly the WoW example is valid? You sort of dug a huge hole here for yourself.

You can see that right? Thats what you get when one thing (WoW hate) blinds you.

Safer Saviour.9685:

Points of Interest are designed to be interesting. If you looked at them as potential spots of lore or nice scenery rather than objectives, you would possibly find yourself enjoying the experience much more. I wouldn’t say no to a button that made Vistas, PoIs and the like invisible on the UI though. That would be cool, but that’s another matter. Adding mounts wouldn’t help or hinder the role of Points of Interest in this case.

The world of Tyria is not a lonely world. The world of Tyria is a hectic, crowded place where civilisations have been pushed back into centralised areas due to the dangers outside of city gates. Settlements are always under attack, another dragon could arise at any time and no contact has been made with another continent for fifty years (Elona). There’s no room for loneliness. Magic makes the flora and vicious, sometimes sentient, and finding an area where there are no hazards is extremely rare.

Furthermore, the idea of a big, open map with one feature is just… bad. One feature? After you’ve found it, what can you do but cross that empty space? That’s hardly a game.

Mounts would be disruptive to the maps we already have. The way a creature like a broodmother (how would that thing jump with a norn on its back?) would interact with the map would be entirely different to anything we have at present. If it adds a skills or a speedboost, how would you balance that. How would someone on a mount combat someone who wasn’t? And wouldn’t the whole idea of mounts having skills undermine the Ranger class entirely? I also seriously doubt that Anet would bother to make more than one mount for every race, due to the crazy development involved in making multiple mounts, their animations, the animations of every kitten armour set available etc.

Expansions are unlikely to happen any time soon regardless. Were mounts to be added, they’d likely be part of a ‘feature pack’. Of course, the’re unlikely to be added.

I never said a map only should have one thing to do. And yes it would require some new animations and so on but it does not have to be redone for all. Most you can reuse. Just like they do with many mobs and mini’s. So one you have lets say 4 type of mounts and get those to work with all races then you can more easily keep creating new mounts based on those mounts.. they would then be of the same 4 types.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

With your argument there would be no reason to add any new fun content and all we get would be for QoL patches.

…i have already addressed that in this discussion, several pages ago. I will quote it back:

Any new introduction to the game needs to be weighted in terms of necessity (does the game needs it?), desirability (do the people want it? are the people against it?) and difficulty (how hard it is to implement). For something to be done, the first two need to outweight the third.

What you are speaking now is the second point (desirability). Fun content worth introducing is the one that is fun to majority, or one that is fun for significant number of players and has no strong opposition.

Mounts are a content that is indeed fun to some, but so far there is nothing to suggest that it fulfills one of those criteria. Quite the opposite, in fact.

In short, you were unable to prove so far that it is indeed a fun content. Only, that it is fun personally to you. Those are not the same.

Yeah and you said that if something that is not in the game and there are people who want it for fun (as with any new content except for QoL) and there are people who do not want it, the not wanting out-weighs the wanting because it’s just fun.

So again, by your definition, new content would never be introduces because there will always be people want wanting it and they outweighs those wanting it.

When you now say ”and has no strong opposition.” that means that those with the biggest mouth always git it there way… well if they do NOT want something.

“In short, you were unable to prove so far that it is indeed a fun content. Only, that it is funpersonally to you. Those are not the same.“

You see this is what I mean.. There will always be people for it and against it. Fun is subjective so you can never proof something is fun for everybody. And so you always outweigh those who scream it’s not fun for them. So again, by your definition we would never add new content.

The reason that something is fun for people is a good reason to add it. Like it or not.

Shindar the Reaver.2518:

I quit playing around when ascended items were announced. Just came here to see if they gave up on the idea of a long grind for stat advantages rather than cosmetics.

Cosmetic grind is just as bad. Especially for a game that is all build around cosmetics.

Serophous.9085:

So….killing the same i monster over and over for gold is a grind.
Killing the same monster over and over, hoping for a possible rare drop, for a specific quest for a rare item, isn’t a grind its working towards a goal.

Well almost. It would be farming that monster for the drop, however there are a few big differences. First of all, yeah for that one rare drop you need to kill that one mob but for another rare item you want you need to do something else (run a dungeon) and for yes something else maybe a JP and so on. While now it’s all ‘want that Grind gold’. So that is different while in practice you still could do the same content.

Secondly the reward itself is more rewarding because you did get it for that specific content. You killed that monster over 1000 times but you now has that mini (or whatever) as reward. Else it would just be another mini you did buy after grinding gold.

Lastly if stuff drops as general loot you can not only not really work towards it but it also drops for a lot of people who do not want it, they will likely sell it to be able to buy what they want. However because of that is totally devalues all the items. It’s nothing special anymore. It’s like everybody would be farming only that one monster. That that rare would not be very special anymore. That is now what happens with most items.

Galen Grey.4709:

~

It is not just for WoW, many games have it. It are mainly F2P games that do it like GW2 because they try to monetize those items.

“Only now that you’re level 100 with your mega super gear its no longer an adrenaline filled fight as its intended to be, its you hitting the boss for 5 seconds while passively healing more damage then the boss can deal.”
Now you already imagine that you are lvl 100 and the mop is 60. While that is of course not needed ans especially in GW2 that would not be true.

However, well yeah you do go back to farm that boss in your example don’t you? So you replay the content. And maybe there is no adrenaline rush but there is the feeling of ‘will it drop’ and if it does the joy of that. However as I imagine it in GW2 it would in those cases never be so easy. However there might indeed be a group of mobs that can drop a mini and then it’s indeed nothing more then just farming that mob.
This is the least interesting example obvious but even that’s not bad once in a while. Overall you want them behind content that is challenging.

“for this scenario to happen you’d have to skip that boss entirely” huh? You skip it? Why would you skip it?

In your example the boss would never have given me 100 it would have given me 10 or 19 using your numbers. And I might do it more then once just don’t keep doing it.

However I want to state again that indeed that would be true if you level up and then come back. However you can and should do the same for content at your level.

As an example, I likely did Molten Facility more then any of the other dungeons together and I had fun doing it. (did the pirate one also a lot) Motivations where the mini and the back-pack. That btw never dropped and then they removed the dungeon increasing my then already existing hate for temporary content.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

I think you misunderstood me there. I did not say the reward is the content but the ‘working towards it’ is content. As a matter of fact if Anet would now trow all mini’s in the world and some in JP’s, some in dungeons and so on then I would consider that game-play as it would then be something I could start hunting down. However usually you of course do it together. You release the new dungeon + the rewards. Then the dungeon itself it content but working towards that mini is as well.

I am confused… sure you cannot get mini drops in JP, or world bosses etc… but you can get ascended gear in any JP, world boss so isnt this already the case? or does the reward specifically have to be minis?

No it has to be specific rewards for specific content so you can work towards something you like.

You know like how the Molten Facility dungeon could drop that mini and the backpack. If only that was not temporary. That was great. You want that mini or that back-pack go do that dungeon.

Now what is available in the world are all general drops. Yeah I can get some good drop from a dungeons but I can not specifically work towards a specific reward. I can not do the JP in Southsun Cove because that will have the change to drop a mini drake while I could kill one of the bosses in AC because it can drop that cool sword (skin).

There are a few examples in the game. Tequatl, the worm and the last added dungeon path have a specific drop. But with 90% of the reward of the stuff not being implemented in that way the whole fun of collecting them is already gone and I would not even bother with those 3. (plus I am not really interested in that skin and because it’s farmed so much the TP has overflown by them making them sell for a few gold)

Would you have done that with 90% of all mini’s, skins and so on, all over the game then you add new game-play. Hunting down mini’s for your collecting or hunting down that skin you like so much.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Devata.6589:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Kurrilino.2706:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I ran into an Anet tag the other day, and as you do, I pumped him for info.

“Future content will be released at some time in the future.”

That’s a quote straight from the horses’ mouth, thanks Evan!

---

Man you are easy to please. I wonder people like you are the target group.

Maybe i can add something to the rumors.

Future Contend will be released in the future.
Right now we can bridge some time with present contend.
Or what about the past contend we played in the past ????

Now we have a reason to look forward.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with sarcasm being hard to spot on the internet.

I personally can’t wait for something new. On the other hand, I like to keep my expectations realistic. Some people have been comparing s subscribtion model mmo with a buy to play mmo. If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo. I hear ESO is… eh..new. There’s plenty of them out there, and another soon to launch!

This break was expected. IIRC, they said ‘break – feature patch – break’. They possibly need the extra time for the China launch; GW2hub is speculating about some major new content in the works, like the new zone a lot of people are craving.

TL:DR: Be realistic. Expecting a buy to play MMO to deliver the same level of content as a sub based one is likely to lead to dissappointment.

If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo.

I am keen on permanent expansions. That is why I went for a B2P game in stead of a F2P game.. You know F2P game focus on there cash-shop and that is not so good for the quality of the game and it’s content.

Sadly Anet then decided that they would still go for the cash-shop approach in stead of expansions.

So no need to look for another game, this game should just start focusing on expansions instead of monthly patches. You know, it being B2P and all.

If this game would have been a true B2P game we would have had or first expansion by now. So people don’t ask for to much imho.

Anet from the start have been pretty clear what content they intended to deliver. You buy the game, you get the game, plus frequent living story updates.

I’m not sure where you are getting the:’It’s buy to play, thus expansions’ from. You appear to be redefining the Buy to Play term to fit your own expectations, not the commonly accepted meaning of it.

I see a lot of people naming GW2 a F2P game so it looks like what they are doing does also not fit the general description of B2P. So then what is the general description of B2P. Does it only mean that you buy the game ones and whatever you do after it does not matter anymore? No because when we talk about sub-based vs F2P vd B2P we are talking about payment models and because a MMO tries to generate money for a longer time it should also say something about how they make money in the longer time. So B2P also means you buy more game to play more later… you know like expansions.

GW2 does that now using the cash-shop being it a cash-shop focused game. What many people also refer to as F2P.

Anet did not say “We ask money for the game but after that we will purely focus on the cash-shop to generate income.” No in fact they even said expansion would be used to generate income. We all knew and they said there would also be a cash-shop to generate money but it was not stated if it would have a focus. It was until after release that a they said that they did not want to do expansions (id the LS was a success.. so there is still hope for expansions).

Another reason to think they would use expansions is because of GW1 where indeed they did seem to use a true B2P payment model.

So there are many reasons as to why to define B2P that way. As it stand not it’s a cash-shop focused game.

Lankybrit.4598:

Devata.6589:

“If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo.”

I am keen on permanent expansions. That is why I went for a B2P game in stead of a F2P game.. You know F2P game focus on there cash-shop and that is not so good for the quality of the game and it’s content.
…….

If you’re keen on permanent updates, find a subscription MMO
I am keen on permanent updates, so I chose B2P.

That doesn’t make sense!

“If you’re keen on permanent updates, find a subscription MMO” was a quote but I forgot to place the quotes. That’s why it indeed seemed to make no sense. I fixed it.

Safer Saviour.9685:

~

“Jumping puzzles often aren’t marked at all, and there are little hidden easter egg areas and events all over that are just waiting for me to find them.” Yeah those thinks I like. But not skipping down a list. Many PoI are not interesting and if those places are I want to come across them myself while exploring, not while skipping down a list. I guess we look different towards that.

I like ALSO open spaces because it gives you a feeling of a big place and loneliness and you see something in the distance so you want to go there to check it out. Deserts, tundra’s, savanna, forests and jungles come to mind. I see you want some of them as well, when I think of a desert it just needs a lot of empty space to really give it a desert feeling. You can still do stuff in that open place. Let one mob walk there. Because it’s big and open you might not see it a lot but when you do as ranger you might be able to tame that rare beast, or else you might be able to kill it for a change at a mini or mount or skin drop.
Yeah even maps that have a lot of empty space can be interesting.

I guess we disagree on the part of if it would fit / be word the time. Yes a drake might not fit in a snow area but as mount it makes sense, it did not go there by itself. There are already many thinks that really don’t fit, now if they would make a purple elephant then indeed it would not fit. I also don’t say, No new maps, put mounts in instead. I see it as a big list of new features and content that together would be a great addition to the game and I will pay for it if they give that in the form of an expansion.

AtlasSi.9130:

~

Would not be able to tell you in what mission there where mounts but there sure where mounts in missions.

And with Halloween there was Horseman Saralim. So yes there where mounts in GW1. Not sure why people keep saying it won’t fit the lore. What because you can’t use a mount at this moment?. And then we forget about the riding broom or the flight we made in Arah.

“Heh, you could even bypass hearts in zones and just gather exp from pois, vistas, wps, and sps. Is there a dev out there that doesn’t want their consumer to experience all of the content without bypassing it?”
If it’s a good game-designer he just wants people to have fun, not to go down a list. In that wat the poi’s, vista’s are already bad design. Oow and I already so skip them. If I see something that interest me I go there, that is exploring. If I just need a PoI I run there until I see I get the PoI and turn back. I don’t consider that fun or exploring, just crossing down a list.
The game or software is there for the players / users, not for the developers. (I am saying being a developer myself)

Overall I do think the extra loading time will not be as bad as you think. Yes you need to load in an extra model (per player) but all his skins are already models, every mob in the world is a model. So on more model will not double you loading times I think.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Devata.6589:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Skan.5301:

RoRo.8270:

Rofl this thread is still going. Seriously mounts ain’t happening they make 0 sense in a game with 100s of Way points zones that are instanced. Plus it would be a waste of resources which could be used elsewhere. Strong logic about mounts in other games so we should have them in gw2. Oh and can you imagine how ridiculous a norn would look ingame on a horse? Yes there are concept arts but they are just that concepts

Drop a few waypoints and add mounts. Because you really don’t need 20 – 30 waypoints in a zone.

You amused me when you said “it would be a waste of resources which could be used elsewhere”. Do you mean more temporary content? Or more Gem store items? Or maybe you mean rehashed content with a skin throw over it and zone change?

The anti – mount crowd is the one whose stuck on other games having mounts. Good try though.

I’m sure the creative minds at ANet can figure something out that would work for all races.

Mounts are not something, like armor skins that are just different drawings on the same backbone. You need to deal with how a character is mounted (look at the difference between Asura and Norn or even Charr) all that would need to be modeled in. Then the balance of mounted versus unmounted battle, etc. I would rather have another area or another Race to play than mounts. People that want mounts say they are for looks, etc. But if the game engine doesn’t have them built in, modifying that engine just to appease a vocal minority makes no sense as it would almost have to be totally rewritten.

I would prefer mounts over another race. In the end a race would also just be a skin. Only real new content that had to come with them would be the personal story. And maybe not even that depending on the lore.

Also I don’t think it would be as much of a problem as many people think simply because it is already in the core (what might proof that indeed they did plan to put in mounts at some point). The riding-broom shows that is is already in the core. Of course for every new mount it would be additional work but the core has most of what it needs.

The riding broom is not core and to do mounts right takes 100’s of hours testing. modeling. etc. YOU don’t want a new race but many do and a new race is not just another skin – background, etc is put in as well as the starter area, PS, and race main city. I think you do, your ‘I want mounts’ campaign a disservice by your last post.

That is one mount and each mount needs to be tested with each race and size of race as well as with each type of armor. It is NOT SIMPLE to do.

“The riding broom is not core”
It shows that everything that really needs to be in the core / game engine (like allowing characters to sit on an object while moving) is already there. Yes it would still take time to make mounts and good animations and so on. I am just saying that those core parts are indeed there because you said there weren’t but the broom proofs they are.

For me it would not matter either way. Was just to show you that indeed the core can already handle them.

I did not say I did not want a new race I would prefer mounts over another race because for me, the player, they would indeed not add much more.. I did forget about the starting area and the city. Give you that one.

Anyway, as you might know I would like mounts to be implemented in an expansion and I would expect there to be another race as well. However if I had to chose yes then I would say mounts because they really ad something new to the game that we do not have yet.

And again, I never said nor suggested it was simple and I might hope Anet will in the future not only put in things that are simple.

Safer Saviour.9685:

~

“To those who say that mounts would encourage exploration: speaking as someone who’s 80% of the way towards a fifth map completion”
You mean world completion right? Maybe the fact that you are 80% of your fifth map-completion does show you are not the person who explores like some of do. I do like exploring and have this game since beta’s. Number of world-completions is 0. Why? Because exploring for me is not skipping of a list of vista’s, PoI’s, hearts and way-points.

Also I would not consider GW2 to have the best maps for explorers (like you do) because everything is packed together so much and every map is an instance. Yes it’s beautiful and yes they have some cool things like JP’s. But I do miss big open area’s with not much to do and then a little house in the distance, or a real forest to roam around in and so on. Then mounts are a great way of exploring.

Yes it will take time to develop, not saying it won’t. But almost everything I would like to see cost time. I may hope they will not only put in stuff that would not take a lot of time to build. I want to see some new quality stuff that all takes time. No worries however, I am willing to pay for it by buying an expansion that includes all those additions.

Astralporing.1957:

Gibson.4036:

Astralporing.1957:

And again we get to the point where you need to make a convincing argument why those resources should be allocated to this project, that would outweight arguments why they shouldn’t.

No. I don’t need to do that any more than you need to make a convincing argument as to why they shouldn’t.

I am not proposing a work-intensive game change. I don’t need to make any arguments. And if both sides arguments cancel out (because they are equally weak), then the things are going to stay as they are now – which suits me fine.
So, if you want a change, you do need to put more effort in arguments than i do.

Gibson.4036:

Arguments “because i like them” do not outweight “and we do not”.

And the converse is equally true.

Indeed. And since they are equal, there’s no reason for a change.

Gibson.4036:

The only thing that really has weight is whether ArenaNet could get a reasonable return on investment from implementing them in game.

Yes. That’s where (again) you need to supply compelling arguments. Which you didn’t.

Gibson.4036:

So to be against mounts because I, and others, would like the game to have fewer waypoints doesn’t make much sense.

I wasn’t the person that tied one to the other.

Gibson.4036:

the number of people wanting mounts is not greater than people that do not want them

Where is your evidence for this?

Okay, let me rephrase. “the number of people wanting mounts does not seem greater than people that do not want them”. And i base that on the only source i have – pro-mounts threads. In which the pro-mount supporters are always in the minority.
If you have any other data, please, post it, but until you do, that is the only base of approximating mount approval that we can have.

With your argument there would be no reason to add any new fun content and all we get would be for QoL patches.

Because there are always people who do not want some of the new content (because they don’t consider it fun or maybe even bad) and there are always people who will like it. In that scenario if where to follow you nothing would be added.

So no new content (for fun) should be added.

And yes the mount threads are for the WoW haters as honey is for bees but if I just ask around ingame many people seem to be wanting mounts and I am also pretty sure that if Anet would use mounts as one of the advertisement values for an expansion it would also attack a lot of new players. Mounts are simply very much wanted in MMO’s in general.

maddoctor.2738:

Wetpaw.3487:

Mounts would be a great addition to GW2.

And this is were the discussion fails. From one side there are those who say “Mounts would be great in GW2” and on the other side there are those who say “Mounts would be bad in GW2”

Both sides of the argument, on almost every thread about mounts, fail to provide at least some reasoning, just a blind yes/no. And when reasons are offered, they are pretty much silly, like the old “But WoW does it so it’s good” or “But WoW does it so it’s bad”.

15 pages of going back and forth… and in recent pages we got the Trinity in, expansions, gem store and personal attacks, going further and further away of the topic, which is, if you all remember, mounts.

Let’s get back on track, no I won’t create a new thread on mounts, we can just use this one, relax, breath and have a conversation without bringing in off-topic discussions.

So, back to basics, before discussing HOW the mounts will be implemented (gem store / expansion / raid) let’s talk about something simpler. WHY do you want mounts?

It’s fair to assume, that those who WANT mounts (since they don’t exist at the moment) must first provide some reasoning about why they want them in… then the anti-mount crowd can turn it down or agree with it.

The OP started the thread rather well, providing some actual reasons, good or bad, on WHY GW2 would benefit from mounts:

1) WPs cost money, so mounts can be used to get to events on time
2) Mounts make your character look cool

It’s a game so it all boils down to, is it fun? Many people think it is other think it’s not.
Then you could ask, why do you find it fun (with is interesting but not the reason to put it in, the fact that it is fun is the reason).

The side conversations as gem-store vs expansions are there because people say ‘I like to do x with them’ and then somebody else says.. That is not possible because they will be in the cash-shop and so on.

But I am willing to brake it down for you to the basics again.

Reason to add mounts.
Because it’s fun for many people.

Why do I find it fun?
It can add nice game-play. Put mounts in dungeons, behind mobs and so on and we ‘the players’ can go hunt them down. Collect them all or try to get that one rare because it’s behind hard content or because it drops in a remote area very rarely from a mob or whatever.

Because I like to explore the map riding on on mount. I see something in the distance and like to go there. Then it’s great that you are on a mounts back.

I like it because it gives more the feeling of an open world when you travel on a mount then when you travel on a waypoint. By food it sometimes takes to ling.

I like it because of the skin value. Try tog et the nice looking, cool looking, special looking or the ones you almost never see. So the skin value.

AtlasSi.9130:

Devata.6589:

I believe that including mounts would take away the fun. I would trust buying a good big full expansion that includes many things, including putting many mounts in the world for me to hunt down and collect.

Would I buy it if it was a cash-shop item? No. I would most likely grind gold to get one and not bother about all the other mounts. Taking away 90% of the fun of mounts.

Fixed. Your welcome babe. Call me anytime.

Dear WoW,

You did that wrong.

Wetpaw.3487:

AtlasSi.9130:

No. This isn’t WoW. Stop trying to turn it into that.

Rogue to Thief
Paladin to Guardian
Warrior to Warrior
Warlock to Necromancer
Hunter to Ranger
Mage to Elementalist

Dagger, bow, GS, staff, shield, sword, 1h axe, gun, 2h mace (hammer), wand (scepter)

Hearthstone to Waypoint

light, medium, heavy armor

Transmog to Wardrobe

I think the devs already beat the players when it comes to taking a concept from WoW. Lets not pretend this is a unique snowflake to the mmo genre, taking an idea from another game that has worked well is nothing new, WoW has done it and so has GW2.

Mounts would be a great addition to GW2.

Not really adding to the discussion but when I did see our list I had to add one.
You forgot Shaman –> Engineer.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

~
Maybe you should consider you also fail to see some stuff if it comes to mounts?

PS: Expect mounts in EQ:Next.

~

So since they are 1. Unnecessary, and 2. Undesired. Except for some that either want a speed boost … or just visual bling… In gw2, Mounts …no….

In eq next? maybe, but simply because EQ Next is a different game entirely.

As to " because… WoW." You need to see if from our perspective. This is thread number “587,908” that seeks to make GW2 more like WoW.

If you count the " Holy Trinity" threads… the “End game Raiding” threads… the " Mounts" threads… The " I wanna be a dedicated Healer" threads… the " I wanna be a dedicated tank with my own pocket healer" threads… etc etc etc etc….

it amounts to people basically trying to turn this game into a WoW clone.

World of Warcraft is a game that is still around, for people that want World of Warcraft or a WoW clone…this is Not it. I am sure that no one does WoW as well as WoW.

Gw2 saught to provide us with a game that wasn’t a WoW clone. That is how we like it. For those wanting a WoW experience…. Go Play WoW. If you want something similar but not WoW I am sure there are many WoW clones out there, with mounts.

All we are saying is..the less Like WoW this game plays the better we like it. So when someone presents a " Suggestion: WoW clone?" Thread…some of us… get a Little… adversarial.

With all due respect, imho you don’t want mounts to fit GW2 because of hat WoW-hate, and I come back to that later. Yes there where mounts in GW1 during mission but then again, GW1 was mainly about doing missions. So when you stretch that to GW2 open world mounts make sense.

Unnecessary, like I said before it’s a game so it’s completely unnecessary it’s all there just for fun.
Undesired is only buy a few people who mainly seem to dislike it because of the WoW idea. What makes no sense for multiple reasons, one of them being that WoW was not the first to have them. It’s not a WoW invention it’s something that comes from many fantasies worlds.

No this thread is not about making it more like WoW, that is really how the WoW haters see it but it’s invalid. Yes people ask for things they like and seem to be missing in GW2 and many of those things you can find in WoW just like in many other games. I know because I have been active in multiple of those thread.

While I have never asked to get the holy trinity back to get more specific roles. Not because WoW has that but because dungeons and gameplay will require more teamwork and is more profession specific. It would then become more as stack, dps and heal a downed players. That is why people ask for it, not because it is WoW.

As for end-game raid. As leader of a guild I would love to see some dungeons that require more tactics (also see the more specific roles) and a lager group of players. So we have more (and chaleging) stuff to do with the guild. Not because WoW (or any other MMO) has that. I would not want them to remove JP’s because WoW has not because I would want this game to be a WoW-clone or anything.

I would love to have guilds being able to build castles in WvW and defend them, not to make it a more WoW-clone because WoW don’t even has that (ArcheAge does). So no those people are not asking for a clone, they are simply asking for elements they like. Yes WoW happens to be one of the many MMO’s that indeed ALSO has mounts and raids and other stuff, some of what people do ask for. That does not mean those people ask or want a WoW-clone.

“All we are saying is..the less Like WoW this game plays the better we like it.”
Well nice that you are honest about it but I think it a total void reason and so is everything that is based on it. I’s why I came up with the “because WoW” to tease people a little. It’s pure hate, everything you guys (WoW haters) see that only remotely lets YOU think of WoW is bad just because it’s WoW oow and those people suggesting it must be wanting a WoW clone. No offence but that’s just stupid imho and no good reason.

Think for yourself, do you really dislike mounts or raids or holy trinity or healers or tanks (taking your examples) because of what it is or simply because of your hate of WoW. In many cases including the mount thread for many of the people who don’t want it it seems to boil down to the “because WoW” reason. And because even they understand it’s a bad reason they come up with excuses because mostly it’s indeed just that, excuses as to why not do something. However they usually can’t leave out the “don’t make this WoW” what shows there real agenda. And if you really dislike something fine, just say way but sorry “because WoW” is a totally void reason for me.

Porterhouse.6304:

Interesting idea. But if Anet implemented mounts, would you trust buying one?

It might be fun buying a horse and zipping around for the first few months. But then there would be this one patch where your mount gets changed into a horsehead mask tonic. Would it feel the same after that?

I would trust buying a good big full expansion that includes many things, including putting many mounts in the world for me to hunt down and collect.

Would I buy it if it was a cash-shop item? No. I would most likely grind gold to get one and not bother about all the other mounts. Taking away 90% of the fun of mounts.

AtlasSi.9130:

No. because WoW. This isn’t WoW. Stop trying to turn it into that.
No, because WoW.

Your welcome.

Astralporing.1957:

Gibson.4036:

RoRo.8270:

Plus it would be a waste of resources which could be used elsewhere.

It’s only a waste if you don’t want them. For people who do, it would be appropriately used resources.

And again we get to the point where you need to make a convincing argument why those resources should be allocated to this project, that would outweight arguments why they shouldn’t. Arguments “because i like them” do not outweight “and we do not”.

Gibson.4036:

Skan.5301:

Drop a few waypoints and add mounts. Because you really don’t need 20 – 30 waypoints in a zone.

I imagine about 2/3rds of all waypoints removed.

And now you see why i don’t want mounts in the game.

That would be good in general, unrelated to mounts but yes it would be the perfect change to implement at the same time as implementing mounts. Still I would love to see the number of way-points being reduced even without mounts.
Just leave some at important places like little villages and where world-bosses spawn. Or even better replace them with mini portals. Lore wise portals need to be attuned to each other (you see how way-points don’t fit in the lore at all) so you can’t just travel from one portal to any other portal. However maybe an Asura can discover a portal that is able to attune to multiple portals but can only be used in a shorter distance. That would be great to replace way-points in a less lore-braking way. However then you have the problem of going form one map to another without having to see multiple loading-screens because you are passing maps. What would only be really fixed when they would have seamless zones. I really can only see waypoints as a way to fix a problem (instanced maps), not as this great innovative invention from Anet. Letting people portal all over the place is easy to make, there is a reason why most games do NOT have it.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

I also want them to get rid of the cash-shop focus.

Dream on ;P
Yeah, i’d wish they’d do that, but somehow i don’t believe i will ever see it. We keep asking for new skins in the game, and what we get is new gemshop armor sets. This pretty much tells me all i want to know how might the mounts get handled if they were ever implemented.

Well if you want that then ask for it. It’s all a matter of money. Many people convinced themselves that the cash-shop was great in GW2 because it was not P2W (read P2Kill) while in the meanwhile it was simply effecting the game, maybe even mainly for those interested in skins, the thing they monetize. Luckily more and more people seem to realize this. So simply ask for expansions and don’t buy gems. The maybe they will (have to) make the shift.

Astralporing.1957:

Conncept.7638:

~ Therefore as neither side has any idea or evidence of how mounts would be implemented, all arguments of whether they should or should not be implemented are based on assumption and heresay and can’t go beyond that, giving neither side the opportunity to provide a body of proof, and therefore certainly not requiring either side to do so.

Good. You have just agreed with what i was saying. Since arguments of both sides are worths the same, according to you, and the number of people wanting mounts is not greater than people that do not want them, and the difficulty of implementing mounts is not zero…
You see where i am going?

I am not sure if the it’s 50 / 50. There is a group extremely against it but I am pretty sure that a huge group of players would love to see mounts. At least most casual players. And no, nobody is saying it will not cost time. Everything I would love to see ingame cost time. If it does not cost a lot of time it means we already have it or it’s of low quality.

Astralporing.1957:

Conncept.7638:

However, were I a developer, looking at this thread, I certainly wouldn’t want to cater to a playgoup who has managed to fill fifteen pages of blindly hateful and fanatical speculations and assumptions against an idea they know absolutely nothing about. The conduct of the anti-mount crowd in this thread is sickening.

Oh, please, and the pro-mount crowd knows better how those mounts would be implemented? When they are even unable to agree what they want and for what reason?

Not how they would be implemented.. This is a suggestion-thread and they know how they would want them to be implemented. Sorry but I can’t see the argument “they will be implemented bad” as a valid argument. And when I say I want mounts I obvious want them to be implemented in a good way.

Immortal.3647:

but they make 0 sense in the gw universe ^^
go back to Wow or whatever ^^

Yeah they do. There where mounts in GW1, there are mounts in GW2, you just can’t ride them (yet). We use animals to transport goods, so why not ourself. There are horse carriages.

Of all mounts we even have one of the least fitting already ingame, the riding broom.(yeah that one does not give you any speed boost but in many other ways it’s the same as other mounts would be)

We have racing moa’s, something Asura would easily fit on. We have Zeppelins, we have helicopters (including non-combat, pure transport helicopters like the one that is linked to an event), we have ships, we have beast we train to figt, so why not train to ride? We have stables and horse carriages at bars.

We have golem suits, the char have badmobiles (as I name them).

Everything in this game screams ‘mounts’ we just can’t ride / use most of them as a good way of transport yet. What does not really fit with everything we see ingame.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Kurrilino.2706:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

I ran into an Anet tag the other day, and as you do, I pumped him for info.

“Future content will be released at some time in the future.”

That’s a quote straight from the horses’ mouth, thanks Evan!

---

Man you are easy to please. I wonder people like you are the target group.

Maybe i can add something to the rumors.

Future Contend will be released in the future.
Right now we can bridge some time with present contend.
Or what about the past contend we played in the past ????

Now we have a reason to look forward.

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with sarcasm being hard to spot on the internet.

I personally can’t wait for something new. On the other hand, I like to keep my expectations realistic. Some people have been comparing s subscribtion model mmo with a buy to play mmo. If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo. I hear ESO is… eh..new. There’s plenty of them out there, and another soon to launch!

This break was expected. IIRC, they said ‘break – feature patch – break’. They possibly need the extra time for the China launch; GW2hub is speculating about some major new content in the works, like the new zone a lot of people are craving.

TL:DR: Be realistic. Expecting a buy to play MMO to deliver the same level of content as a sub based one is likely to lead to dissappointment.

“If you’re that keen on permanent updates, find yourself a nice subscription mmo.”

I am keen on permanent expansions. That is why I went for a B2P game in stead of a F2P game.. You know F2P game focus on there cash-shop and that is not so good for the quality of the game and it’s content.

Sadly Anet then decided that they would still go for the cash-shop approach in stead of expansions.

So no need to look for another game, this game should just start focusing on expansions instead of monthly patches. You know, it being B2P and all.

If this game would have been a true B2P game we would have had or first expansion by now. So people don’t ask for to much imho.

Teon.5168:

Devata.6589:

Maybe it would help if you define grind in stead of saying everything was a grind in those games. Anyway, I am talking about the current or even my definition of grind. And then there is to much gold gold gold.. grind.

I like to play for the items, not get gold to buy them. It is that simple.

Take the ‘grind’ that you feel exists for gold in GW2, and apply that same experience/feeling to just about every aspect of the game…..crafting, special abilities, gear, levels, regrind due to death and loss of items/coin, massive, time consuming missions for higher end abilities and trinkets, etc…..

I am not saying take your definition of the word grind……am saying to take how you feel about ‘grinding’ gold in this game and apply that same feeling/experience to all the above. It might be interesting and tolerable for the first character, but then new content has been added by then that just increases that grind, and then it just all starts to blur and become more of a dull job interspersed with some real fun and enjoyment, despite the horrid time sinks. (“Count me out for anything tonight, as we have been planning this mission for such and such ability/trinket/1 part of a several part upper level conquest for several weeks, so I will be on my computer for the next 6 hours after work”)

I guess that is the best way I can come somewhat close to getting you to understand how those older mmos were when it came to grind.

And don’t get me wrong…..they were fun….and addictive…..because that is all there was then….and most mmo players were used to it……and a lot of us were a lot younger then….

But if I were to now install one of those older games, jump on my computer and play it, after having played GW2……..I would either be insane and/or would have completely destroyed my computer within 2 weeks of playing that old time sink.

The feeling that you always have to grind gold for everything in stead of working towards the thinks them self. The don’t really fit on most of your examples? You do boring task to earn gold to buy your levels?

Sorry still can’t see what else it is then you mean it’s hard and define that as grind. And I don’t mind it is hard, I do dislike how many games did get dumbed down mainly because of consoles. Just did not play many MMORPG’s back in the day. What did you do to get the gear or example that you consider a grind?

I consider it a grind when I have to do go get money, to then buy the gear or skins to be more exact as I prefer skins over stats.

And still, the fact that those games where maybe worse does not mean there is no grind in GW2. Just put the dame items in the game behind specific content in stead of all general drops and cash-shop stuff.

Gone is the gold-grind. But they want gold-grind. It means more gem-sales. I did go for a B2P game in stead of a F2P game to avoid exactly thee sorts of things.

Immortal.3647:

Devata.6589:

Immortal.3647:

mounts are for little girls

So are pokemon. Still like them as well. At least he first 250

mounts are st00pid

Overall I would indeed not consider mounts the most smart animals on Tyria, and then there are the mechanical mounts, those don’t even have a brain. So yes they are st00pid. I still want them.

Teon.5168:

Devata.6589:

So if you had to ‘grind’ for everything then why still need money? When you grind for the stuff you don’t need money to buy it. Anyway, if it’s so that indeed you had to grind money all the time in those games to buy the items you wanted instead of working directly towards those items, the way I like it then those games must not have been a lot of fun.

However, I have the feeling that you mainly mean it was very hard to get an item or to level up. That is something else then grinding and then in fact it might be exactly what I want. Of course then getting back to the question, if I work towards the items I want then I would not need (so much) gold to buy it.

This is exactly my point. You just don’t really have any sort of real understanding of what some of the old time mmo players here say about the older games and the grind. Of course you also had to grind for gold, as some of the games’ elements required ‘buys’ instead of drops, such as housing, mounts, crafting tools, etc. That was in addition to the grinding for levels, drops, gear……running grindy, horribly time consuming large group missions for certain types of special abilities, etc….having to regrind due to a death of your player where you lost gear, coin, ranking, etc……the list goes on an on and on……blech.

I guess I will just have to respectfully disagree with you. From what you have said, especially when you consider GW2 to be some sort of awful gold ‘grind’, I feel that you would completely detest the grind of the older games. But I certainly could be wrong. I did know people back then that enjoyed those massive time sinks…..maybe you might have been one of them. I certainly tolerated them myself back when…….but am now glad that some of the mmorpgs are now removing those incredible time wasting sinkholes.

Not trying to pick any sort of fight…..just disagreeing with your perception of it all.

Again.. define grind. You keep telling my I don’t get your definition of grind but you never give your definition of grind..

Besides that, I don’t see how it even matters.

Yeah there is gold-grind.. Not because it takes so extreme long to get money. If you run farm-trains or do dungeons you can make some gold.

The problem is that I do not want to grind gold to buy items, I want to work towards those items directly (and that might be very hard work or maybe farming mobs for it to drop (what I think you consider grind)). That adds value to the items and the content and it’s simply something I like.

The get gold then buy items is just boring to me and totally devalues the items.

If you don’t want to name that grind then you don’t. Fact stays that to get most of those items it’s all gold, gold, gold in stead of working directly towards the item. Oow except for gold there is the temporary do it now ore lose out forever achievement list. Not much more fun.

Teon.5168:

Devata.6589:

Most of what you name I don’t consider grind. Like I said, it’s the fact that you have to grind gold to get anything in the game in stead of working for it.

I can’t say I do belong to the “back then we played real MMO’s” because back then I did not play MMO’s I did play other games. However I don’t mind if leveling takes long.

How do you know you wouldn’t consider it all a grind, if you never played any of the older mmos?

Yours’ and other’s complaints about the ‘grind for gold’ in this game pretty much proves to me, imo, that you and others would absolutely detest the grind for everything in the older mmos…….one didn’t just grind for levels, or gold, or elite items…..there was a grind for nearly everything in the game.

Not trying to state the “when I was your age had to walk through 6 feet of snow for 10 miles bare naked to get to school” sort of nonsense. It’s just that the mmos back in the pre Wow days just thought that everyone wanted to play an mmorpg that required the players to mindlessly grind for absurd amounts of time. The definition of ‘grind’ has changed so, so much over the years…….it’s just difficult for me to call much of anything in this game a grind, in the true sense of the word, imo.

Maybe it would help if you define grind in stead of saying everything was a grind in those games. Anyway, I am talking about the current or even my definition of grind. And then there is to much gold gold gold.. grind.

I like to play for the items, not get gold to buy them. It is that simple.

Teon.5168:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

I did not play EQN2 but the way you define grind is not what I and many people are complaining about. The the endless gold-grind that people complain about.

I would love to in fact have to do something for my rewards.. something specific, not just grinding gold because as you say, that is much more memorable.

The thing is, from the way many " Modern Gamers" use the term " grind", it seems to me that what you now consider grind… we who have been around since UO, EQ1, CoH, SWG…DAoC… yes, the “pre-World of Warcraft” era, before MMO’s were so simplified, that players can expect and demand… level cap in a week… etc… We called " Playing the Game."

Playing the game, meant you did not reach level cap for at least 6 months to maybe 9 months.

Playing the game meant that the Item you wanted…The EverQuest Epic for your class, took many different quests, some you could do alone, some you needed a couple of people to help…some you needed a whole guild to take down some world Boss… and back then World Bosses made grenth and Lyssa Look… weak.

Back then… an Epic… was so much More difficult to get than a legendary, and was Not something you could Buy off anyone else. It was soulbound on acquire.

Back then the best rewards were things you had to work for… fact is…whoever got their Epic probably worked on it for 6 to 9 months….after reaching level cap….. if they were lucky.

Today’s gamers toss the word " Grind" around as if they knew what a grind was. If they were ever to try a “real” MMO, and Not these " MMO-lites." That have become common since WoW simplified, and … eliminated most of what playing an MMO was, they would rage quit and whine about " This is just boring grinding!"

Back then… buying In game Gold with cash was anathema. People that did it were not " the average gamer." but seen as lazy. back then people that griefed others, trolls, were ostracized In games where being ostracized meant you could not get content accompliahed. You needed help from others. and that led to a feeling of community.

I have to laugh when I see threads like this… " grind" .. today’s players simply have no conception of what a true grind is, since Not many games since WoW revolutionized the MMO Genre, By simplifying it to " level cap in a week, because…. The game begins at level cap." has any grind in it. Anything that might extend the longevity or even make the game more entertaining, by making it more challenging is shouted down as " Boring grind..I’ll rage quit and take my money with me."

Back then the game began at level 1. And what many of us enjoyed from level 1. you guys would consider “grinding”.

Nerelith, I could not agree with you more, as you pretty much summed up all my feelings about absurd threads such as this one! Excellent post!

And Devata, of course one had to grind gold(on a much longer/larger scale than gw2) in those older mmos. One had to grind for nearly everything in those older games.

So if you had to ‘grind’ for everything then why still need money? When you grind for the stuff you don’t need money to buy it. Anyway, if it’s so that indeed you had to grind money all the time in those games to buy the items you wanted instead of working directly towards those items, the way I like it then those games must not have been a lot of fun.

However, I have the feeling that you mainly mean it was very hard to get an item or to level up. That is something else then grinding and then in fact it might be exactly what I want. Of course then getting back to the question, if I work towards the items I want then I would not need (so much) gold to buy it.

Max Lexandre.6279:

It’s not the most grindy ever.

But if you talk about the Most Mindless Grind, it is. On GW2 the grind is incredible random, specially due our amazing loot system where everything can drop everywhere.

And because of that it all becomes a gold grind. You do stuff to get gold (selling the items you get but don’t want) to then buy what you want.

But heey, you can buy gems and convert them to gold. To bad how the cash-shop focus influence the game in a bad way.

I have been complaining about that for a long time now, before I did get a lot of “no because it’s not P2W”.. and then they mend, P2Kill. Now I see more and more people coming to the concluding that in fact it does effect the game in a negative way.

Only thing we can really do is not buy gems.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

I did not play EQN2 but the way you define grind is not what I and many people are complaining about. The the endless gold-grind that people complain about.

I would love to in fact have to do something for my rewards.. something specific, not just grinding gold because as you say, that is much more memorable.

The thing is, from the way many " Modern Gamers" use the term " grind", it seems to me that what you now consider grind… we who have been around since UO, EQ1, CoH, SWG…DAoC… yes, the “pre-World of Warcraft” era, before MMO’s were so simplified, that players can expect and demand… level cap in a week… etc… We called " Playing the Game."

Playing the game, meant you did not reach level cap for at least 6 months to maybe 9 months.

Playing the game meant that the Item you wanted…The EverQuest Epic for your class, took many different quests, some you could do alone, some you needed a couple of people to help…some you needed a whole guild to take down some world Boss… and back then World Bosses made grenth and Lyssa Look… weak.

Back then… an Epic… was so much More difficult to get than a legendary, and was Not something you could Buy off anyone else. It was soulbound on acquire.

Back then the best rewards were things you had to work for… fact is…whoever got their Epic probably worked on it for 6 to 9 months….after reaching level cap….. if they were lucky.

Today’s gamers toss the word " Grind" around as if they knew what a grind was. If they were ever to try a “real” MMO, and Not these " MMO-lites." That have become common since WoW simplified, and … eliminated most of what playing an MMO was, they would rage quit and whine about " This is just boring grinding!"

Back then… buying In game Gold with cash was anathema. People that did it were not " the average gamer." but seen as lazy. back then people that griefed others, trolls, were ostracized In games where being ostracized meant you could not get content accompliahed. You needed help from others. and that led to a feeling of community.

I have to laugh when I see threads like this… " grind" .. today’s players simply have no conception of what a true grind is, since Not many games since WoW revolutionized the MMO Genre, By simplifying it to " level cap in a week, because…. The game begins at level cap." has any grind in it. Anything that might extend the longevity or even make the game more entertaining, by making it more challenging is shouted down as " Boring grind..I’ll rage quit and take my money with me."

Back then the game began at level 1. And what many of us enjoyed from level 1. you guys would consider “grinding”.

Most of what you name I don’t consider grind. Like I said, it’s the fact that you have to grind gold to get anything in the game in stead of working for it.

I can’t say I do belong to the “back then we played real MMO’s” because back then I did not play MMO’s I did play other games. However I don’t mind if leveling takes long. I do understand why games make leveling shorter, thats imho not so much to prevent grinding but to keep stuff replay able and don’t make it to hard for new players that come 3 expansions down the road.

Anyway, I would not care if leveling would take very long, I don’t consider leveling grinding.. Well you can make it a grind but by itself it does not have to be. The problem in GW2 is the gold. Want a mini? Get gold, want a skin? Get gold, want a legendary? Get gold, want to level crafting? Get gold.

Yeah then all that collecting gold is grinding gold to me and many others.

Galen Grey.4709:

Skan.5301:

Galen Grey.4709:

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

How is a lie? we definitely got more content than that, far more. People insist temporay content doesnt count but how many max level wow characters still play Blackwing lair ? or kill any of those 10 world bosses? Or do Dire Maul?

sure physically they’re still in game no doubt about that, but mechanically they’re no longer accessible because of power creep. Gw2 does temporary by removing content, WoW does temporary content by giving an expatriation date to content.

A lot of people do them actually. They do them for armours to transmute, for rare pets, rare mini’s, and achievements. Which, on that game, you get by actually doing content.

Even if 20% of WoW players do them, that’s still more than how many GW2 players do the LS again, which is 0%, because it’s not even in the game anymore.

you’re saying 20% of level 100 players do level 60 or other lower level raids / dungeons / world bosses? I can understand some dont mind steamrolling a lower level dungeon for a skin that’s fine but 20%? that’s surely way too high!

doesnt seem right to be honest because it will not be fun to do that and in of case people who do it for the skins they will still stop doing it once they get the skin they want anyway so while for such people I concede that such a low level dungeon might not expire just the moment they out level it, it will still expire once they get the skin they want.

Yeah true, at some point you stop playing it. But everybody will always have the opportunity to do that or work towards that mini. If new players come into GW2 and ask for a skin it’s “not available anymore” or if they are luck “grind loads and loads of gold or buy gems”.

Galen Grey.4709:

Shadowmoon.7986:

Draknar.5748:

Adding FoTM, the new dungeons in FoTM, EoTM, and all of the temp content in between is more than WoW did in the same time period. That’s a fact.

Let see what wow released in a year and half.
Added 2 dungeons multiple paths(Maraudon and dire maul)
Added 4 Raids (Blackwing Lair, Zul’Gurub, Ahn’Qiraj, Naxxramas)
Added 3 Battlegrounds with different game types
Added 10 world bosses
Added the Blackmoon faire and weekly fishing event and holiday events.
Seems that fact is a lie to me.

How is a lie? we definitely got more content than that, far more. People insist temporay content doesnt count but how many max level wow characters still play Blackwing lair ? or kill any of those 10 world bosses? Or do Dire Maul?

sure physically they’re still in game no doubt about that, but mechanically they’re no longer accessible because of power creep. Gw2 does temporary by removing content, WoW does temporary content by giving an expatriation date to content.

I did here the upcoming expansion would change that. Anyway, it’s still accessible for lower level characters and you can still farm it for rewards like a mini. As you see, working towards a mini can be content.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

That is an extreme example and if thats the case thats also not good. Especially when it’s time-gated. The mini I am talking about had I thing something of a 1 in few thousand drop-rate. seems like a lot but you had an area where those mobs where a lot and they dye with one kill.

For dungeons you want to make it a little higher drop-rate. The fact thats WoW does that wrong with that mount does not mean it can’t be done right.

However is does show how people work towards something. That itself is content. You in a way proof what I what trying to say all the time.

You cant, cause the moment you make it drop often and which is not time bound it ceases to be exclusive. You cannot have something exclusive thats easy to get whenever you want which is what you’d like to see. When things stop being exclusive they stop being valuable. Its not like Gw2 doesnt drop anything but who is happy to receive a green drop? they’re just too common which makes people not care about them.

No its not, the content is the raid you have to play in order to get to the reward not the I have to play this content in order to get to the reward. Simply speaking if say tomorrow arenanet deployed a new unique mini you could get for finishing say the not so secret jumping puzzle no one would consider that as arenanet doing a new jumping puzzle because adding a reward is not new content and thats correct cause it isnt. Rewards are incentives not content itself.

For the first thing. I never said it had to be easy to get. yeah then it would not be exclusive anymore. I said it should drop in a specific place and it can be hard. Because it’s in a specific place people are less likely to get is as a general drop so the TP will not be flooded with it. If it’s also hard content then it will stay exclusive, just not unavailable for those who really want it. To take the WoW example again. There are mini’s in the open world since the game released about 10 years ago and they are still very exclusive. And i’m not talking about stuff behind time-gated dungeons.

I think you misunderstood me there. I did not say the reward is the content but the ‘working towards it’ is content. As a matter of fact if Anet would now trow all mini’s in the world and some in JP’s, some in dungeons and so on then I would consider that game-play as it would then be something I could start hunting down. However usually you of course do it together. You release the new dungeon + the rewards. Then the dungeon itself it content but working towards that mini is as well.

Skan.5301:

Devata.6589:

Gibson.4036:

The should be exactly the same from a game mechanic standpoint no matter where you get them. A plain brown horse, devourer, and dolyak would be available for a modest amount of gold (or reasonable quest line) in game. Spectral horses, treants, and flaming dolyaks could be available from the cash shop. Watchwork devourers and infinity golems could be a limited time LS reward.

Again, all exactly the same in their game mechanics.

No no no, why add something to then destroy >50% of the fun of it?. Because that’s the way they do it now? Thats not a good reason to me.

I stay at.. Release an expansion and use the mounts as one of the eye catches for the expansions. The you can put everything really ingame, where it belongs. Not in a cash-shop and no more temporary available “do it now or lose out forever” stuff anymore please.

I say using it as eye candy for an expansion would work pretty well.

Some mounts should be added to the cash shop just as a way to generate some income. After all, I’m sure those of us who can see past the false glamour of the LS would like another expansion after the initial one.

Make them drop from world bosses, dungeon end chest, and from doing quest. That adds a reason toplay the game for those who want to be rewarded for their efforts.

Ok let’s agree they can put 5 in the cash-shop. All other mounts (at least 35, but the more the better) should be available ingame. A few just at an NPC for a few gold for those who don’t really care, the rest in dungeons, from events or quest (if ever implemented) from world-bosses and so on.

They want more money, they release another batch of mounts in the second expansion.

Immortal.3647:

mounts are for little girls

So are pokemon. Still like them as well. At least he first 250

Dusty Moon.4382:

Skan.5301:

RoRo.8270:

Rofl this thread is still going. Seriously mounts ain’t happening they make 0 sense in a game with 100s of Way points zones that are instanced. Plus it would be a waste of resources which could be used elsewhere. Strong logic about mounts in other games so we should have them in gw2. Oh and can you imagine how ridiculous a norn would look ingame on a horse? Yes there are concept arts but they are just that concepts

Drop a few waypoints and add mounts. Because you really don’t need 20 – 30 waypoints in a zone.

You amused me when you said “it would be a waste of resources which could be used elsewhere”. Do you mean more temporary content? Or more Gem store items? Or maybe you mean rehashed content with a skin throw over it and zone change?

The anti – mount crowd is the one whose stuck on other games having mounts. Good try though.

I’m sure the creative minds at ANet can figure something out that would work for all races.

Mounts are not something, like armor skins that are just different drawings on the same backbone. You need to deal with how a character is mounted (look at the difference between Asura and Norn or even Charr) all that would need to be modeled in. Then the balance of mounted versus unmounted battle, etc. I would rather have another area or another Race to play than mounts. People that want mounts say they are for looks, etc. But if the game engine doesn’t have them built in, modifying that engine just to appease a vocal minority makes no sense as it would almost have to be totally rewritten.

I would prefer mounts over another race. In the end a race would also just be a skin. Only real new content that had to come with them would be the personal story. And maybe not even that depending on the lore.

Also I don’t think it would be as much of a problem as many people think simply because it is already in the core (what might proof that indeed they did plan to put in mounts at some point). The riding-broom shows that is is already in the core. Of course for every new mount it would be additional work but the core has most of what it needs.

Latinkuro.9420:

if CN gets cosmetic mounts I want cosmetic mounts in NA version as well

just saying cause we all know asians love mounts.

what I wouldn’t want to see is lore breaking mounts ala FF reborn or Archage style !

The steam-punk trucks from ArcheAge would fit in GW2’s lore but most of them would indeed not. They do fit in ArchAge. Not sure if you mend those would not fit in GW2 or they don’t fit in ArcheAge.