Guild Wars 2

I support the game the best as possible. For this I use 3 simple steps.

Before that however you see if the game has potential. GW2 seemed as a game with potential, it did some good work with GW1, has some nice idea’s, had no sub and said it was B2P. With GW1 so no cash-shop focus that hurts the game.

Steps:
1. Buy the CE edition of the game. You support the game and box-sales a little extra.
2. If the game deliver also buy the CE edition of the expansion. (Did not get the chance to do that yet and with the current state of the game i’m not sure if I am willing to buy the CE. Depends on there explanation when it comes and the state of the game at that time.) I did expect a expansion once every year / year and a half, this being promoted as a B2P game.
3. Do not spend a single dime on cash-shop / gems as that only helps to push towards a cash-shop focus what is bad for the game. So as supporter I make sure I don’t steer them in the wrong direction. I don’t want to be part of the reason stuff go’s bad.

Sadly enough there are to many people who do buy many gems (falling for marketing tricks) helping the game come to the bad state it is in currently. Anyway, I did what I could to support this game.

So to summarize it and give an answer to the question. I did spend nothing on gems.

Nerelith.7360:

Dusty Moon.4382:

The RP community then hasn’t read or understood the lore of the GW universe then. (I find what I said a silly statement – just like I find the all encompassing statement that ALL the RP community – I didn’t know you spoke for all of them). It is all there. In the GW book, Edge of Destiny, there was mention of a portable gate technology. This may have developed into the waypoints we know now. It was in the pre-novels leading up to GW2’s release. Add that to your RP lore.

The thing is… if the RP community says something is not Lore…then since they are the RP community .. No matter what Anet says, the RP community has to be right. Who does Anet think they are anyway?

Someone from Anet says the waypoints are Lore, what the heck do they know anyway? The RP community has spoken through the lips of One of our forum posters, that person speaks for ALL, and the facts are according to the Poster…. the RP community says waypoints are not Lore.. regardless of what Anet says.

Like I said before. This whole lore ting is whatever Anet makes of it (so also if it comes to mounts) so you can indeed see Anets response as ’it’s lore’ that it is lore. However it does not yet mean it makes sense and that is the problem I guess. Why are NPC’s talking about portals and how great they are while there is a fast superior system that no NPC ever makes use of.. that makes no sense whether Anet says it lore or not.

I am never really into this sort of lore stuff especially because it’s just something a company makes up. I don’t understand why people debate about what lore is behind X because it’s whatever Anet makes up.
Now if the game was based on some huge longer existing lore where there are multiple books but maybe all tell a little different story I would get the discussions. In this case I don’t.

However that all said there is still something like “does it make sense”. Does Anet’s lore / story make sense? Thats important for everybody who likes immersion, not only RP players interested in lore as everything that makes no sense breaks immersion. Also think invisible walls and so on.

To me way-points are simply something like the things in-between zones and overflows. In the lore it’s one big world but for the players is are instanced maps. For the NPC’s way-points do not exist they are just there for the player. The more you have of that stuff the more immersion-breaking it is. Thats how the story / lore makes sense. Or you see it as, ‘they are part of the lore’ also fine but then there story is broken as it makes no sense.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Devata.6589:

Safer Saviour.9685:

Devata.6589:

Lol you really want to refer to the NPC that’s purpose is being a tutorial for the gamer? Because that are the only NPC’s that talk about them.. Those that are there to learn the player about the game.

When teleporting I have no problems taking a lot of stuff with me including my ranger pet. Even if there would be a limit then it’s pretty big and then teleporting over 5 times to take all goods from a to b would make more sense that traveling over a dangerous road (we need to guard them for that reason) while you can teleport over easier and faster, you only have to do it a few times.

Oow and if you say “the npc would also have to pay for the way-points so that might be a reason” guess what, they pay me (and all the other players helping) to guard them. Pretty expensive.

With all due respect but Waypoints do not fit or are not a part of the lore. We both know it. They are purely there for the player and my guess is that they are not there because it’s so great but because the instanced maps are a problem for if you travel over multiple maps.. loading screen after loading screen. So my guess is that they are mainly put in to solve that problem and then marketed as being some great innovative idea (it’s not really, it has been possible in all MMO’s but then it’s considered cheating). Don’t try to make something part of the lore that isn’t. You can just say you don’t like mounts just don’t find excuses like “they don’t fit in the lore” and then putting yourself in the position where you have to explain how Way-points do fit in the lore.

“would suddenly decided that riding a good ol’ dolyak through the spider cave is a good idea.” Not sure if your example is great but if the questions is “I would need an answer as to why the people of Tyria would suddenly decided that riding a beast to travel faster is a good idea”. Because it makes sense. Thats in fact, thats why people in real life started doing it. It makes sense.

You use beast to transport goods, you use them to fight, you use them as pets.. it’s a matter of time before they would get the idea of using them to transport themselves. It would be strange if they didn’t.

Perhaps it only works on living creatures? As I’ve said, the waypoint system’s workings need better explanation but regardless, they are still considered present in lore. I recommend you look up Angel McCoy’s interviews with the various role playing communities as it’s there where you’ll find her answers on the matter. Here’s a snippet from one of them that definitively tells us that they exist within the world of the game and not just as a mechanic.

Esprits d’Orr : Should waypoints be considered from a roleplay perspective? If so, how do they function?
Angel McCoy : Absolutely! Waypoints are asuran devices, and all the money you spend to use them goes straight into the coffers at Rata Sum

Since when are all NPC’s dead?

Seeing as how this ‘lore’ is just whatever Anet comes up with you could consider the statement of Angel McCoy as proof that it is lore. And Anet can always put the lore part in the game, however at this moment ingame you really can;t consider it lore. They might someday come up with the lore and then change the mechanic of the game to fit it (so NPC’s using waypoints) but at this poit you really can’t say it’s lore in the game.

I do know some RP players and apperantly the whole RP community was / is pretty upsaid about the waypoints and or mainly how they break the lore. So that might explains Angels statement.

The RP community then hasn’t read or understood the lore of the GW universe then. (I find what I said a silly statement – just like I find the all encompassing statement that ALL the RP community – I didn’t know you spoke for all of them). It is all there. In the GW book, Edge of Destiny, there was mention of a portable gate technology. This may have developed into the waypoints we know now. It was in the pre-novels leading up to GW2’s release. Add that to your RP lore.

I said APPERANTLY as I did indeed not speak to all of them. Thats what those said that I talked about. They have discussion about that sort of stuff. Idk thats what they said.

And yes indeed there is talk about portal technology. Thats the whole point… what the point of portals when you have way-points. Why no mention of way-points, why is there mention of how great portals are. Portals are a pretty big part of the lore and that is there problem. If portals way-points would exist in the lore portals don’t make sense anymore.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Safer Saviour.9685:

Devata.6589:

So the conclusion is.. Yes to mounts if implemented correctly?

Yes.

Correctly meaning gimmick mounts like the broom and location-limited like the desert wurm from GW1 only. If I have to see a guild of people riding charr chuggers out in Queensdale, I would consider that ‘incorrect implementation’.

Well correctly means something else to me. But that was the ‘joke’ of my comment.

So then now we can debate what is the correct way to do it.

Let me copy paste my list from before:

Take the general idea of mounts and then to satisfy those who not like mounts to much we have the following limitations / additions:

No mounts in city’s,

No combat mounts in PvE, (so you can also not use the speed to your advantage during fights)

A max speed of x . I think max 3 times that what you can get with normal boost (that is 33 %? So then max 99 would be a good compromise. Of course if the max speed without mounts increase that of mounts increases as well.

No flying mounts. (But yes for low hovering mounts including really hovering (so not that you bumb in to a very low object because you see yourself hover above it but are in fact on the ground)). Think of some of the tonics that make you ‘fly’ but without the bumping into object you hover above.

I don’t care for a ’don’t show mounts options". Think it would be strange but if people want that I don’t care (might however not work if they implement hovering in a good way as I describe above).

The option of having Speed shoes as alternative for a mount. It would then work exactly the same as mounts do but without really seeing the mount but giving you a speedy gonzales like animation. That would then be the easiest to get the most ‘mounts’.

For a more detailed description of the implementation of this see:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-Mounts/page/20#post4005814

And you go back to your " Limitations that are really not Limitations but expansions to what any anti-mount person would ever consider" so…No.

None of this is Ok with me, especially the 99 % is not compromising, you really need to look up compromise, it seems you have no idea what the word means.

Think.. perma-boost = to what a player can get with quickness and No faster. That is good enough since it is permanent, but for travel only.

No Combat abilities. Slowed down on agro. Auto-dismount on attack + daze for 2 seconds. Sustain damage on auto-dismount.

I am very much aware what limitations and compromises are. Really it’s you who does explain the definition incorrectly.

I am fine with a 200% speed-boost. You don’t want to higher the current speed-boost.

Then I say.. ok lets limited to 3 times the current speed-boost. That would (at this moment) be 99%. So the limit is those 3 times current speed-boost and the compromise is 99% in stead of 200%.

You say.. It’s fine now it should stat that way.. (You do add the perma-boost but no compromise for the speed itself.) Well that is a limitation but no compromise.

I already said no combat mounts. That means no combat skills. I did give as example maybe a skill that could only hurt critters (just for fun) and a skill to wiggle your tail but when I say no combat mounts it means no combat skills. I am personally fine with combat mounts but as a compromise I am willing to limit mounts to non-combat.. in PvE that is. I could imagine special WvW or PvP maps with mounted combat.

I did say auto slow-down when being attacked and getting kicked of when being hit 2 or 3 times. So thats a little different from yours but personally I would be fine by not slowing down as I already dislike that when walking. Anyway as a compromise I am fine with that if that would make anti-mount people more happy. Slow down on aggro would be extremely frustrating to play so now that I would not agree on.

Safer Saviour.9685:

Devata.6589:

Lol you really want to refer to the NPC that’s purpose is being a tutorial for the gamer? Because that are the only NPC’s that talk about them.. Those that are there to learn the player about the game.

When teleporting I have no problems taking a lot of stuff with me including my ranger pet. Even if there would be a limit then it’s pretty big and then teleporting over 5 times to take all goods from a to b would make more sense that traveling over a dangerous road (we need to guard them for that reason) while you can teleport over easier and faster, you only have to do it a few times.

Oow and if you say “the npc would also have to pay for the way-points so that might be a reason” guess what, they pay me (and all the other players helping) to guard them. Pretty expensive.

With all due respect but Waypoints do not fit or are not a part of the lore. We both know it. They are purely there for the player and my guess is that they are not there because it’s so great but because the instanced maps are a problem for if you travel over multiple maps.. loading screen after loading screen. So my guess is that they are mainly put in to solve that problem and then marketed as being some great innovative idea (it’s not really, it has been possible in all MMO’s but then it’s considered cheating). Don’t try to make something part of the lore that isn’t. You can just say you don’t like mounts just don’t find excuses like “they don’t fit in the lore” and then putting yourself in the position where you have to explain how Way-points do fit in the lore.

“would suddenly decided that riding a good ol’ dolyak through the spider cave is a good idea.” Not sure if your example is great but if the questions is “I would need an answer as to why the people of Tyria would suddenly decided that riding a beast to travel faster is a good idea”. Because it makes sense. Thats in fact, thats why people in real life started doing it. It makes sense.

You use beast to transport goods, you use them to fight, you use them as pets.. it’s a matter of time before they would get the idea of using them to transport themselves. It would be strange if they didn’t.

Perhaps it only works on living creatures? As I’ve said, the waypoint system’s workings need better explanation but regardless, they are still considered present in lore. I recommend you look up Angel McCoy’s interviews with the various role playing communities as it’s there where you’ll find her answers on the matter. Here’s a snippet from one of them that definitively tells us that they exist within the world of the game and not just as a mechanic.

Esprits d’Orr : Should waypoints be considered from a roleplay perspective? If so, how do they function?
Angel McCoy : Absolutely! Waypoints are asuran devices, and all the money you spend to use them goes straight into the coffers at Rata Sum

Since when are all NPC’s dead?

Seeing as how this ‘lore’ is just whatever Anet comes up with you could consider the statement of Angel McCoy as proof that it is lore. And Anet can always put the lore part in the game, however at this moment ingame you really can;t consider it lore. They might someday come up with the lore and then change the mechanic of the game to fit it (so NPC’s using waypoints) but at this poit you really can’t say it’s lore in the game.

I do know some RP players and apperantly the whole RP community was / is pretty upsaid about the waypoints and or mainly how they break the lore. So that might explains Angels statement.

Safer Saviour.9685:

Devata.6589:

It would not ruin the atmosphere it would enrich the atmosphere.

If you want to justify it in the lore you can’t wait for mounts to be usable. I mean, they are all over the place but we can’t use them.

While we can hop from one place to another while thats not part of the lore. The NPC’s don’t even seem to see the Waypoint system. They talk about the portals as if thats great while it’s some system that while it’s hopelessly out of date with a system like the Waypoints.. That the NPC’s don’t even use. How often did I not have to guard an NPC walking form one Waypoint to another Waypoint.

So yeah you want stuff to fit the lore then you most love the idea of mounts and must want Waypoints to be removed.

Zooming players are still an issue I do not want to deal with.

The atmosphere in an area such as the Dreamdark Enclave would not be improved by fifty guys running in circles in hazmat suits.

Waypoints are in the lore, they are described as an extension of the Asura Gate principle. A handful of NPCs in the starting zones do mention waypoints and encourage players to utilise them. However, waypoints are not large-matter transporters. How they work is messy and unspecified (and yes, I would like some clarification there) but we do know that they can’t be used to transport things over a certain mass limit. As such, the transportation of goods is still handled by slow caravans when Asura Gates cannot be used. Angel McCoy also spoke on how people pay for waypoints in lore (the money is taken from a registered account).

Beasts are used solely to transport goods or as offensive weapons. They are not used for personal transportation. Not anywhere in lore. From the old Necrid Horsemen to the charr chuggers of the modern era, none of it is simply to get from place to place. I would need an answer as to why the people of Tyria (many of whom are reluctant to leave their stronghold-cities), would suddenly decided that riding a good ol’ dolyak through the spider cave is a good idea.

Lol you really want to refer to the NPC that’s purpose is being a tutorial for the gamer? Because that are the only NPC’s that talk about them.. Those that are there to learn the player about the game.

When teleporting I have no problems taking a lot of stuff with me including my ranger pet. Even if there would be a limit then it’s pretty big and then teleporting over 5 times to take all goods from a to b would make more sense that traveling over a dangerous road (we need to guard them for that reason) while you can teleport over easier and faster, you only have to do it a few times.

Oow and if you say “the npc would also have to pay for the way-points so that might be a reason” guess what, they pay me (and all the other players helping) to guard them. Pretty expensive.

With all due respect but Waypoints do not fit or are not a part of the lore. We both know it. They are purely there for the player and my guess is that they are not there because it’s so great but because the instanced maps are a problem for if you travel over multiple maps.. loading screen after loading screen. So my guess is that they are mainly put in to solve that problem and then marketed as being some great innovative idea (it’s not really, it has been possible in all MMO’s but then it’s considered cheating). Don’t try to make something part of the lore that isn’t. You can just say you don’t like mounts just don’t find excuses like “they don’t fit in the lore” and then putting yourself in the position where you have to explain how Way-points do fit in the lore.

“would suddenly decided that riding a good ol’ dolyak through the spider cave is a good idea.” Not sure if your example is great but if the questions is “I would need an answer as to why the people of Tyria would suddenly decided that riding a beast to travel faster is a good idea”. Because it makes sense. Thats in fact, thats why people in real life started doing it. It makes sense.

You use beast to transport goods, you use them to fight, you use them as pets.. it’s a matter of time before they would get the idea of using them to transport themselves. It would be strange if they didn’t.

Ashen.2907:

Galen Grey.4709:

Sure agreed, but can you point at one thing I stated is not fun? Cause afaik I really didnt.

Perhaps I am misinterpreting your point when you make statements to the effect that rewards do not, and have never, made content fun as a statement that the rewards are not fun. My assumption was that something that adds fun must be fun in itself (subjectively of course). So if rewards cannot add fun, for anyone, ever, then they cannot be fun for anyone, ever…or at least that was my take on some of your very absolute claims here.

Galen Grey.4709:

I would genuinely be interested in reading this study, you have a link or some pointers on how I can find it?

I attended a series of seminars for extra credit back in the mid 80’s where the topic (obviously not specific to MMOs) was addressed as part of a larger discussion of human motivation. I cannot find reference to it online and have not kept the material. As I cannot support the claim I will drop it.

Galen Grey.4709:

so then if didnt yourself experience a situation where a boring task become fun thanks to rewards associated with it is it safe for me to assume your whole argument is from observing other people or this study you mentioned above?

You have it backwards. I experienced plenty of situations where I enjoyed a task that would have been boring without the associated rewards. I have interacted with others whose experience was comparable to mine.

What is the basis for your argument that you know everyone’s subjective experience of what is fun for them ?

Let me give one example to show that rewards do effect the way you have dun with an activity.

Imaging a fair without rewards or better imagine a lottery without rewards.

Safer Saviour.9685:

Devata.6589:

Take the general idea of mounts and then to satisfy those who not like mounts to much we have the following limitations / additions:

No mounts in city’s,

No combat mounts in PvE, (so you can also not use the speed to your advantage during fights)

A max speed of x . I think max 3 times that what you can get with normal boost (that is 33 %? So then max 99 would be a good compromise. Of course if the max speed without mounts increase that of mounts increases as well.

No flying mounts. (But yes for low hovering mounts including really hovering (so not that you bumb in to a very low object because you see yourself hover above it but are in fact on the ground)). Think of some of the tonics that make you ‘fly’ but without the bumping into object you hover above.

I don’t care for a ’don’t show mounts options". Think it would be strange but if people want that I don’t care (might however not work if they implement hovering in a good way as I describe above).

The option of having Speed shoes as alternative for a mount. It would then work exactly the same as mounts do but without really seeing the mount but giving you a speedy gonzales like animation. That would then be the easiest to get the most ‘mounts’.

I absolutely see this as incorrect implementation.

I do not want anything (speed shoes or mounts) that increases the speed beyond the present cap. I do not want to have to see people zooming by regardless of how they achieve that level of speed, especially since Guild Wars 2’s animations are incredibly appealing to me at present.

I do not want to see more than a handful of racial ‘mounts’ outside of the appropriate areas. A Krytan town full of charr chuggers or asuran hazmat suits would ruin the atmosphere Arenanet has tried to create for that particular environment. The art direction in this game is still one of my favourite things to enjoy.

I do not want anything added into the game without a reasonable way of justifying it in lore. Why would mounts become popular in a dangerous world like Tyria and where people can instantly hop from one place to another? This is an important question that I would want answering.

It would not ruin the atmosphere it would enrich the atmosphere.

If you want to justify it in the lore you can’t wait for mounts to be usable. I mean, they are all over the place but we can’t use them.

While we can hop from one place to another while thats not part of the lore. The NPC’s don’t even seem to see the Waypoint system. They talk about the portals as if thats great while it’s some system that while it’s hopelessly out of date with a system like the Waypoints.. That the NPC’s don’t even use. How often did I not have to guard an NPC walking form one Waypoint to another Waypoint.

So yeah you want stuff to fit the lore then you most love the idea of mounts and must want Waypoints to be removed.

Safer Saviour.9685:

Devata.6589:

So the conclusion is.. Yes to mounts if implemented correctly?

Yes.

Correctly meaning gimmick mounts like the broom and location-limited like the desert wurm from GW1 only. If I have to see a guild of people riding charr chuggers out in Queensdale, I would consider that ‘incorrect implementation’.

Well correctly means something else to me. But that was the ‘joke’ of my comment.

So then now we can debate what is the correct way to do it.

Let me copy paste my list from before:

Take the general idea of mounts and then to satisfy those who not like mounts to much we have the following limitations / additions:

No mounts in city’s,

No combat mounts in PvE, (so you can also not use the speed to your advantage during fights)

A max speed of x . I think max 3 times that what you can get with normal boost (that is 33 %? So then max 99 would be a good compromise. Of course if the max speed without mounts increase that of mounts increases as well.

No flying mounts. (But yes for low hovering mounts including really hovering (so not that you bumb in to a very low object because you see yourself hover above it but are in fact on the ground)). Think of some of the tonics that make you ‘fly’ but without the bumping into object you hover above.

I don’t care for a ’don’t show mounts options". Think it would be strange but if people want that I don’t care (might however not work if they implement hovering in a good way as I describe above).

The option of having Speed shoes as alternative for a mount. It would then work exactly the same as mounts do but without really seeing the mount but giving you a speedy gonzales like animation. That would then be the easiest to get the most ‘mounts’.

For a more detailed description of the implementation of this see:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-Mounts/page/20#post4005814

So the conclusion is.. Yes to mounts if implemented correctly?

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

About the tagging mounts and running away getting other people to get aggro.

I do understand what you are talking about but I don’t see what mounts specifically have to do with that? It’s already the case / possible without mounts. It would still be possible with mounts. Maybe that it would be a little more easy but overall I am already able to outrun 90% of the mobs, with mounts that might become 95%. So not a big difference imho.

There is a difference between outrunning a mob using a 10 second quickness, and using a constant speed buff. Especially since the way most anti-mount players would accept any mount at all is if it is for out-of-combat travel.

So if you get near a mob while travelling, you need to be slowed down… so that you deal with it. This is part of limits.

And the difference between, outrunning 90 % of Mobs using a combat speed buff…and 95 % of mobs using an out-of-combat travel mount is OP.

That 5 % that is being dumped on someone’s lap is 5 % too many for many people that do not even want to see a mount in the game to begin with.

There is such a thing as “Leaving well enough alone.” And knowing when asking too much may get ya nothing at all. Remember these mounts are not combat mounts… these are travel mounts… the compromise between the Combat mounts you want, and the cosmetic only mounts that many players on my side do not even want.

Cue in Obligatory song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S94ohyErSw

I mean it does not make a huge difference for the player that gets the mob attacking him because somebody else pulled him, if the other guy did that on a mount or he did it by foot.

He still gets attacked by it and the number of times that happen should not increase a lot because we can already outrun 90% of the mobs.

I disagree. As a player that has been in games where I had a couple of Mobs under control, to simply have someone ride up…. being chased by a bunch of Mobs, that subsequently peel off the mount rider, then zero in on me, It makes a huge difference. You can choose to believe what you wish. But speaking as someone that has had this happened to me…. death through my own incompetence I can handle, and i can just go ’ hey, you win some, you lose some." But when someone rides up to you…. and then rides away, and the Mobs that were chasing him, turn to beat me down…. It does make a difference.

I can understand why you do not wish to think so, the reason is self-serving. If you simply cover your ears with your fingers and go " lalalalalalala" then you do not have to hear what happens.

Here is why this should concern you. This is a legitimate gripe that players have with speed-boost mounts. And while I can understand you rather discount the complaint and not deal with it, if you seriously expect the devs to take you seriously, you need to take the complaint seriously. Because they are taking it seriously.

You will not come across your best with your callous attitude.

I think you did not get me.

I totally understand you completely dislike it if that happens to you. I know the feeling of being upset when you die because of something like that.

I get furious at this game often when I die because mobs that I already killed multiple times keep respawning before I killed the complete group. Thats similar in that it’s out of your control and should not happen.

So I get that feeling, and I get it why you dislike it if people can do it.

The only part I do not get is that this can already happen now without mounts and then why it would be more upsetting with mounts. It’s just upsetting with or without mounts but why is it more upsetting to you with mounts? That part I really don’t get. Has nothing to do with not wanting to know I really don’t get that.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Galen Grey.4709:

Please lets not exagerate now, sure Gw2 is quite easy not arguing against that but not even a level 80 character can tank a level 1 npc without the player being active.

Yet, you can if you’re a ranger… There are several instances where I was AFK for a bit and on my return found some dead things around me…

Personally, I stopped caring about new content. I moved to the group of people who think that they should fix the current problems first, before even adding more problems to the game.

You’re right because your pet auto attacks it could out dps a single mob in a much lower level area. That being said please note we were comparing an open world boss not a single regular mob and your pet will not save you from a veteran mob much less a full on boss.

We where talking about playing that game in general.

are we? cause I agreed with you that there might certain cases where a max level char might go back to mid range or low level zones and replay content there but those reasons arent generally they’re pretty specific such as an open world boss droping unique skin / pet etc.. but that definitely doesn’t apply in general I dont see a max level char going back to a low level zone just to grind mobs for example.

When I am leveling an alt or doing a dungeon or LS stuff I almost always play in windowed mode having only one eye on the game.

Not only when I go with an lvl 80 to a lower zone. The eye on the screen is mainly there to see if I need to dodge. Anyway, it’s to much off-topic so leave it with that. Yes putting rewards behind content might sometimes result in easy farming content but the game already has that.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

About the tagging mounts and running away getting other people to get aggro.

I do understand what you are talking about but I don’t see what mounts specifically have to do with that? It’s already the case / possible without mounts. It would still be possible with mounts. Maybe that it would be a little more easy but overall I am already able to outrun 90% of the mobs, with mounts that might become 95%. So not a big difference imho.

There is a difference between outrunning a mob using a 10 second quickness, and using a constant speed buff. Especially since the way most anti-mount players would accept any mount at all is if it is for out-of-combat travel.

So if you get near a mob while travelling, you need to be slowed down… so that you deal with it. This is part of limits.

And the difference between, outrunning 90 % of Mobs using a combat speed buff…and 95 % of mobs using an out-of-combat travel mount is OP.

That 5 % that is being dumped on someone’s lap is 5 % too many for many people that do not even want to see a mount in the game to begin with.

There is such a thing as “Leaving well enough alone.” And knowing when asking too much may get ya nothing at all. Remember these mounts are not combat mounts… these are travel mounts… the compromise between the Combat mounts you want, and the cosmetic only mounts that many players on my side do not even want.

Cue in Obligatory song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S94ohyErSw

I mean it does not make a huge difference for the player that gets the mob attacking him because somebody else pulled him, if the other guy did that on a mount or he did it by foot.

He still gets attacked by it and the number of times that happen should not increase a lot because we can already outrun 90% of the mobs.

Galen Grey.4709:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Galen Grey.4709:

Please lets not exagerate now, sure Gw2 is quite easy not arguing against that but not even a level 80 character can tank a level 1 npc without the player being active.

Yet, you can if you’re a ranger… There are several instances where I was AFK for a bit and on my return found some dead things around me…

Personally, I stopped caring about new content. I moved to the group of people who think that they should fix the current problems first, before even adding more problems to the game.

You’re right because your pet auto attacks it could out dps a single mob in a much lower level area. That being said please note we were comparing an open world boss not a single regular mob and your pet will not save you from a veteran mob much less a full on boss.

We where talking about playing the game in general.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Galen Grey.4709:

Please lets not exagerate now, sure Gw2 is quite easy not arguing against that but not even a level 80 character can tank a level 1 npc without the player being active.

Yet, you can if you’re a ranger… There are several instances where I was AFK for a bit and on my return found some dead things around me…

Personally, I stopped caring about new content. I moved to the group of people who think that they should fix the current problems first, before even adding more problems to the game.

I am a ranger and indeed when I am afk for a moment my pet can take care of lover level stuff. But I was mainly taking about really playing while looking with one eye to the game in the other to a movie or a article or whatever.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

The numbers where just examples, So yes 1/100 is not a lot.
Also you keep focusing on the easy boring farm examples. Yes there are there but much of the content would just be behind stuff at your level and so be challenging.

of course no doubt but dont forget here we’re discussing what tangable difference does leaving content in the game permanent make. So current level content doesnt count for this discussion only lower level content does.

I don’t get that one. Why would that not count. Most LS stuff was lvl 80 stuff.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

And for the record, GW2 is the only game I play windowed 9 of the 10 times because meanwhile I am doing other stuff, including watching movies. So the way you describe that is exactly how much of the current content is already.

Please lets not exagerate now, sure Gw2 is quite easy not arguing against that but not even a level 80 character can tank a level 1 npc without the player being active. Most other MMOs have a high power curve and a max level character can passively tank legions of low level mobs without the slightest risk of dying because they regen more health then the legion of mobs can dps.

I am not exagerate. It’s litteraly how I play the game. In windowed mode while doing other stuff at the game time.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

The Aetherized pistol sells for 80g because it is very rare (and one of the best looking pistols). And like I said before if stuff would be non-temporary it could still be rare. Other games proof that. The main difference is that in those games if you want to get that thing you can work towards getting it directly. In GW2 you can do that also but by grinding gold.. Just like for every item. And then there are items that are not available anymore at all. Of course grinding gold for it would still be an option.

Have an example? because I cant imagine how something can be very rare without either being temporary, ridiculously hard drop rate, time gating attempts or really hard content thats only accessible to the most hardcore players. All of those have their pros and cons ofcourse. Me personally I hate repeating the same content over and over again so my preferred option that provides rarity is temporary content.

Well I guess then WoW is the best example because it’s already out for 10 years and most people know it.

I know of a set of whelplings that are still (well at least until MoP but as far as I know still) pretty rare and have been available ever since the game launched 10 years ago.

Tiny Crimson Whelpling,
Tiny Emerald Whelpling
And
Dark Whelpling

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

~

I would not have a mount cost one of the skill slots. You are self one of the people who talks about balancing problems. Well that would likely introduce balancing problems.

About the speed shoes. I don’t mind if they are behind a quest. Personally I would love that even more. I figured you would prefer it being easy accessible from an NPC so you would not be forced to do much for it if you did not really want that. But put it behind a quest, fine by me.. No even better by me as I prefer having such things (mounts, mini’s skins and so on) behind specific content so you can specifically work towards what. Have said much about that in another thread.

About the hovering, there are already many hovering tonics in the game including one hovering mount (the broom) only difference would be you would no bumb into something that is below you.. simply because that is silly. So Anet obvious has nothing against hovering.
It’s something completely different as flying.
It could however then be a problem for the ’don’t show mounts’ option as your coordinate wound indeed show you hover. So that option would then have to go I think.

I think your Point of Hovering is spot on, and while I can see that dodging while Mounted would be important… we’d need a better animation than a foreward roll.

> . <

One thing that I find annoying about speed boost mounts is, the tendency that some players use it when agroed to run fropm mobs they themselves irritated, and then run them to other people that are fighting other mobs.

I can understand feeling frustrated by being slowed down when you enter combat, or get hit by another mob. My concern is, to what extent a mounted player will be able to do this… run away from Mobs they irritated, and then train them to another player, that is simply minding their business…. Also, some players will do this out of pure mischief. So I feel, if you agro a mob, you should be the one to handle it, …Not have the option of outrunning it with speed boost that might then leave it near another player to handle that may already have his hands full.

Player A is running along, gets 2 Centaur Archers On his rear end… runs away trying to escape, and accidentally runs Into a warrior… zips into Player B already fighting a warrior and trampler…. Player A runs into him…past him…outraces his 2…. and drops them on Player B’s lap.

Not exactly cricket is it?

Implimentations. For me… using up one of the 7-9 slots IS balancing. Just as the engineer needs to equip Grenades. Or the Med Kit. It’s the price you pay for constant speed boost.

As to wanting it behind quest content. This is the type of stuff I lived for when I Played EverQuest. Doing the quest for speed shoes. Or having to fight tough Mobs to pick up scattered fragments of spell scrolls etc.

I really dislike that tendency other games have of locking content in a gem store. Frivolity, weapon and armor skins.. Box o’ Fun… etc.. costumes and town clothes..ya..that is fine…

I can understand that Anet doesn’t want to put something in game that some casuals may point to and say " hey how come I cannot have that?? I don’t have 3 or 4 Hours to do this quest!"

I feel that games are better when content is locked behind other content, and Have to be unlocked by playing the game…and not in a gem store, Unlockable with a Credit Card…:-) Nice to see we agree there :-)

Yeah we agree about that. In fact one of the reason I was so interested in GW2 was because it was B2P. So you may expect them to make mainly mainly with game and expansion sales simply to avoid those sort of things. Sadly ArenaNet did make a 180 pretty much and is now just focusing on the cash-shop to generate money. So we do get that sort of cash-shop related problems.

About the tagging mounts and running away getting other people to get aggro.

I do understand what you are talking about but I don’t see what mounts specifically have to do with that? It’s already the case / possible without mounts. It would still be possible with mounts. Maybe that it would be a little more easy but overall I am already able to outrun 90% of the mobs, with mounts that might become 95%. So not a big difference imho.

Flash.6912:

This is an interesting thread with a lot of well constructed arguments, and it’s definitely a subject I think about often. Obviously, the answer to this question is highly subjective, and I don’t believe there is a single right answer. I like reading everyone’s opinion on the matter, though, and I hope this discussion goes on.

Deja Vu. I did just read that already.

@maddoctor.2738
Just about your last statement. Skins should also be available in the open world. Not in the gem-store. If they want more money they realease a new expansions that ontroduces new mounts (skins) in the game.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

~

This actually might work. I do Like the idea of speed shoes. But I would Not want it as a gem shop item. Or an NPC purchased item. It would also add to the game as if would be something that the a player has to do in – game. I really have an issue with " pay2win" and if it is In the gem store, or purchaseable for just gold from an NPC… it can be seen as " pay2win" Make it something that you need to quest for. I have already given a good idea of what such a quest might be like.

I think that while those of us NOT wanting mounts that are reasonable… are not that far apart from those that want mounts … that are reasonable… usually compromise means being willing to accept LESS… Not starting from a Position where you demand a LOT, then being willing to accept only a Little less, that still amounts to a LOT.

Usually that is something that just makes the other side feel as if you just want to run all over them…Kinda Like." hey i could have put you on a torture rack..but I’ll compromise, I’ll just Kick your teeth in, and leave you with a Black eye. See Compromise."

With all due respect, I think your definition of ‘limitations’ is a little strange or better said wrong with the actual meaning of the world. A limitation means “not more then x.. or maximum y”. What you gave as examples are detailed ways of implementation. Yes that is also a limitation as that means nothing else then that would be allowed but it’s not how you would describe general limitations. So sorry if you did not like my answers but I was describing limitations to mounts (in general).

If you want to talk about implementations and how those limitations would be implemented thats fine and I am willing to talk about that.

For example, you say my limitation of ‘non-combat mounts’ is not a limitation however much of you explanation matches with that. About getting kicked of when you get in combat but also how you have no skills.. or at least no combat skills.

So let me go in on that. Yeah I am fine with having no combat skills when on a mount or maybe just very weak one that would only be able to kill a critter. I don’t see why there wound not may be other skills like “wiggle tale of mount” but no combat. Yeah I also don’t mind that you can be kicked of a mount and then be dazed for 1 or 2 seconds. In fact thats how it works in most MMO’s. I would not want the mount to instantly stop or kick you after after getting one hit because that would be extremely frustrating. I already find the ‘slow down when in combat’ extremely annoying in the current game and when you get immobilizes just while walking pass one it’s even worse. So if you would have that even more with mounts it would be likely even more frustrating. But yeah you can get stopped after 2 or 3 hits (and slow down after the first hit) and then you can get kicked of after another 2 hits if you don’t dismount manually. I would leave the dodge option in to at least avoid getting that first hit. (That is how I now reduce that irritation of getting slowed down when passing some mob because he hits me). How much you can that dodge is purely depended on your traits and stuff, not on your weapons or skills as those are invalid on non-combat mounts.

I would not have a mount cost one of the skill slots. You are self one of the people who talks about balancing problems. Well that would likely introduce balancing problems.

Hope this experimentation fits more with your definition of ‘limitations’. About the speed shoes. I don’t mind if they are behind a quest. Personally I would love that even more. I figured you would prefer it being easy accessible from an NPC so you would not be forced to do much for it if you did not really want that. But put it behind a quest, fine by me.. No even better by me as I prefer having such things (mounts, mini’s skins and so on) behind specific content so you can specifically work towards what. Have said much about that in another thread.

About the hovering, there are already many hovering tonics in the game including one hovering mount (the broom) only difference would be you would no bumb into something that is below you.. simply because that is silly. So Anet obvious has nothing against hovering. Not bumping in to anything just depends on the way they implement it. They might also have done that to prevent people to jump on things they are not mend to be jumped on. That however would be simply fixed by having the mount not hover higher then what you would be able to jump and don’t allow ‘jumping’ with that hovering mount.
It’s something completely different as flying.
It could however then be a problem for the ’don’t show mounts’ option as your coordinate wound indeed show you hover. So that option would then have to go I think.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

runeblade.7514:

Since I would assume that it will be PvE content only, it will make all guardian weapon set viable so that they don’t have to use only a specific weapon set to travel around.

I am always stuck on the GS/Staff because it is the only way to get around fast.

That’s how. According to devs (though i can’t locate those posts at the moment. I think they were somewhere on the WvW subforum), the fact that some weapons offer better mobility than others was an important point in balancing them. The same for things like traveller runes, or the mobility +25% signets of some classes. Or the fact that some classes posess far better mobility than others (that one is big, since it affects whole class balance). All those things would have to be completely rebalanced. And you know how long it takes – we could reasonably expect the process to last years.

Yeah it’s a balancing thing for in combat. But if mounts are non-combat mounts it means there is no difference with the current state in combat.

What is the balance part then? Once class / profession should arrive later? That would maybe make a little sense in WvW while still not much and when seeing zergs run I don’t see specific classes fall behind (because everybody speed-boosts each other). But in PvE that would not make any sense at all. If you there sooner manly depends on where you are and how fast you load when using a waypoints. If that really was a balancing thing some classes would have longer loading screen just to slow them down.

So yes it’s a balancing thing for in combat but no it’s not a balancing thing for out of combat. And so non-combat mounts would not mess with that at all.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

That aspect is pretty minor – it adds one bit to the packet describing each character (0 for normal, 1 for mounted). A filter to not see people as mounted is actually as simple as a client-side mask that always turns the mounted/on-foot bit to 0 before handing the packet on to the rendering engine.

The bar to Cosmetics only mounts has been handled. The issue is. Are people that want mounts ONLY happy with a cosmetics only mount?

or

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

While sometimes " slippery slope" is a logical fallacy….. there are times when giving an inch, leads to the other side tugging hard to grab your whole arm.

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

The big question is. Will all the people that want mounts be happy with a cosmetics only mount? Or will this be the cue for the " But it must do something!" crowd to join in? Hence the " slippery slope" NON Logical fallacy?

• cues Carmina Burhana*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-DgS75lfmw

No they are not happy with just cosmetic mounts. Well not really at least. See the broom.

This is where I say that in this environment " Slippery slope" is not a fallacy. While people may not have started with " cosmetics only". there is a dynamic. Those that wish cosmetics only mounts will push what they want, those of us against mounts entirely will say " Ok, but only if I can hide them from My sight on log in."

THIS will then be a clarion call for those wnating speed boost…perma – speed boost…etc.. to come in and say " they gave an inch…charge!!!!"

On a side note, when I went to bed… we were amicable, and agreeable..I come back, and all hell broke loose..what the **** ???

Did hell break lose?

Anyway. Don’t think this has to do with the slippery slope. Most people always wanted ‘real’ mounts. That also means being able to collect them. So more then one. That is also why you mostly see it implemented like that in other mmo’s. There aren’t many, if any, mmo’s where mounts are purely cosmetics.

Here’s a question for you.

How would you suggest balancing Speed-boost mounts so that they are balanced across all speed skills, traits, runes and sigils? Balancing is necessary so that those of us that do not want mounts do not feel that we have to own a Mount, and simply saying " you don’t need to if you do not want to." will not satissfy those that do not want mounts In the game.

Seriously, what limitations are you willing to accept to balance the mounts you want? And just saying " Collecting them." doesn’t qualify since this is something you want added to the game.

I have heard many before you say what limits they would accept.

What limits would you accept for a speed boost mount?

Not sure how ‘collecting them’ would be a balance?

Anyway. What I am willing to accept.

No mounts in city’s,

No combat mounts in PvE, (so you can also not use the speed to your advantage during fights)

A max speed of x . I think max 3 times that what you can get with normal boost (that is 33 %? So then max 99 would be a good compromise. Of course if the max speed without mounts increase that of mounts increases as well.

No flying mounts. (But yes for low hovering mounts including really hovering (so not that you bumb in to a very low object because you see yourself hover above it but are in fact on the ground)). Think of some of the tonics that make you ‘fly’ but without the bumping into object you hover above.

I don’t care for a ’don’t show mounts options". Think it would be strange but if people want that I don’t care.

The problem of having the speed-boost for people that don’t want a mount. (your main question I think) Speed shoes. It would then work exactly the same as mounts do but without really seeing the mount but giving you a speedy gonzales like animation. That would then be the easiest to get by an NPC cheapest in game ‘mount’.

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Devata.6589:

How would that shift any balance when mounts or non-combat mounts?

Because guards don’t have any single option for perma speed. 99% of the speed I use is out of combat for my guard, why am I being punished when other classes aren’t? I have to assume it’s balance related. No other reason makes sense why guards don’t have perma speed when others do. In fact if you look under “Movement speed” in the wiki, Guard isn’t even listed on the page.

It would seem to change some aspect of gameplay to give Guards something they didn’t have before.

Yeah it has indeed to do with balance but I think mainly with balance for during the fights as most if not all those speed-boost also increase your speed during a fight. Non-combat mounts would not.

I don’t see why it would be bad or unbalanced if all classes / professions could travel just as fast in non-combat situations.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Nerelith.7360:

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

That aspect is pretty minor – it adds one bit to the packet describing each character (0 for normal, 1 for mounted). A filter to not see people as mounted is actually as simple as a client-side mask that always turns the mounted/on-foot bit to 0 before handing the packet on to the rendering engine.

The bar to Cosmetics only mounts has been handled. The issue is. Are people that want mounts ONLY happy with a cosmetics only mount?

or

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

While sometimes " slippery slope" is a logical fallacy….. there are times when giving an inch, leads to the other side tugging hard to grab your whole arm.

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

The big question is. Will all the people that want mounts be happy with a cosmetics only mount? Or will this be the cue for the " But it must do something!" crowd to join in? Hence the " slippery slope" NON Logical fallacy?

• cues Carmina Burhana*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-DgS75lfmw

No they are not happy with just cosmetic mounts. Well not really at least. See the broom.

This is where I say that in this environment " Slippery slope" is not a fallacy. While people may not have started with " cosmetics only". there is a dynamic. Those that wish cosmetics only mounts will push what they want, those of us against mounts entirely will say " Ok, but only if I can hide them from My sight on log in."

THIS will then be a clarion call for those wnating speed boost…perma – speed boost…etc.. to come in and say " they gave an inch…charge!!!!"

On a side note, when I went to bed… we were amicable, and agreeable..I come back, and all hell broke loose..what the **** ???

Did hell break lose?

Anyway. Don’t think this has to do with the slippery slope. Most people always wanted ‘real’ mounts. That also means being able to collect them. So more then one. That is also why you mostly see it implemented like that in other mmo’s. There aren’t many, if any, mmo’s where mounts are purely cosmetics.

Zepher.7803:

Personally I am enjoying the break from new content, it does get quite tedious every 2 weeks more grindage to endure.

Agree. Waiting for a good expansion, not waiting for LS S2.

CureForLiving.5360:

Devata.6589:

Personally I don’t mind there is no next season yet. I tent to like the game better without a ‘do it now or miss out forever’ feeling. But I would love to see an expansion with some great permanent content in the future.

oh I must say I agree. Looking at the new Wardrobe, there’s so many skins that just aren’t available any more. Not to mention a lot of content I wouldn’t mind replying.
But since the forums have been going on and on about temporary content I’m hoping ANet takes it to heart. Remember when Living Story events were once off like Karka invasion of LA? We complained and ANet changed. So I’m hoping.

In fact the Karka invasion (not yet really LS btw) is pretty much how I like to see it. An event that happens, but no achievements and content and rewards directly linked to it. Then when the event is over a lulk of new permanent content. Sure it was not much (the island was empty) and sadly even then there was some temporary stuff but overall it was much much better.

More of that please.

People did complain but that was mainly for 3 reason. They had that one big event at a specific time. Meaning half of the player-base could not be there because they had work or where sleeping. Also the ‘killing karka’ took to long and many people had disconnection problems. But the event itself and how they added content that was great and I did not hear people complain about that a lot (except that the island was empty).

I don’t know why they did not do more of that. Easy fix would be to record the events (like really record it per server / overflow) and then having the ability to watch it back really seeing the players. It would give the people who where there an even more epic feeling of being part of history (ingame) and gave those that missed it a change to see it happen.

The next event would then be at another time so those who missed last event where more likely to be there for this one. And everybody was able to do the content that did stay forever.

It was fun, it did not give list of achievements to complete within x time, it did change the world and it added permanent content!

The complains about the LS S1 have been there from pretty soon on. What they did was going from 1 month releases to 2 week releases making the problems even bigger (more temporary content to complete before it was gone). The complains increased and one again they said they would listen.. Well we got a permanent JP and a permanent dungeon path. Overall most of the LS stuff just stayed temporary.

So no I can’t say they did really listen before and so I am not so sure they will do it better in the future.

Just give me an expansion. Then we can also get rid of the cash-shop focus and all negative side-effects that come with it. Win win.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Challenge helps but so does rarety and working towards it even if it’s less challeging.

thing is a 1 in 100 might create rarity but only if its a challenging encounter that no everyone can do so people give up before hitting that average 100 tries. If its trivial plenty of people will endure the 100 trivial fights to get that “rare” pet so it will not be rare anymore. doing 100 trivial fights is nothing i played games where regular quests wanted me to kill more mobs then that

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

well if you didnt skip it you’d have your mini already no?

Only if it was a ganranteed drop. Else if the drop-rate would be 1/100 it’s likely you still don’t have it.

Partially right. yes you’re absolutely right you could try him once and then go on do other things only to come back but a 1/100 drop rate is there for a reason and that reason is developers intending this boss to be content lasting how long it takes to kill him multiplied by a 100 on average .By doing the encounter once and moving on you technically only did part of the game sessions developers intended for and by coming in after maxing out you’re further reducing the amount that boss is supposed to last. That being said conceptually I agree more with you then developers here. Being forced to repeat content isnt really content.

Devata.6589:

No because the boss still have that mini to offer that you want that the stuff at your level do not drop. So you have a reason to do both.

That’s a choir not content. Without the difficulty and the challenge what will I enjoy, starting the auto attack and checking the news for the next minute or so ?

Devata.6589:

No, there is nothing sweet about it being temporary. You do it more then eventually you get rewarded for it. That is sweet. Having stuff you like being removed from the game is not even close to sweet imho.

It is sweet because if you win you have something of real value. There is a reason why a rare Aetherized pistol sells for 80g while other rares sell for a few silver. Final rest also started pretty rare because it had a really low drop rate. I remember when it was first available you had to pay something like 38g for it but now you can get for 4g easily. the drop rate didnt improve it still a very rare drop, its still one of the most beautiful staffs available in the game but because it wasnt a time bound reward eventually it lost its value cause as long as you have all the time in the world unless you gate how many times players can try to get that reward or the difficulty is such that its unreachable for most players its not going to remain rare for ever.

The numbers where just examples, So yes 1/100 is not a lot.
Also you keep focusing on the easy boring farm examples. Yes they are there but much of the content would just be behind stuff at your level and so be challenging.
And for the record, GW2 is the only game I play windowed 9 of the 10 times because meanwhile I am doing other stuff, including watching movies. So the way you describe that is exactly how much of the current content is already.

The Aetherized pistol sells for 80g because it is very rare (and one of the best looking pistols). And like I said before if stuff would be non-temporary it could still be rare. Other games proof that. The main difference is that in those games if you want to get that thing you can work towards getting it directly. In GW2 you can do that also but by grinding gold.. Just like for every item. And then there are items that are not available anymore at all. Of course grinding gold for it would still be an option.

ricky markham.8173:

Beliskner.5039:

OMG stop complaining about content i would understand if you didn’t have anything new for 6 months. Let them launch the game in the new country first. If you don’t like it go and play other mmo’s that give you new content every year.

problem they created was the 2 week schedule got everyone looking for content right after content. not we got feature pack it would be great to get news when the 2 week content will begin again or whatever path they are taking. they dont have to release trailor or nothing of that sort. maybe a blog post where the games going and a date for season 2(even if its a month away) to begin is all im asking. they started the 2 week process and its been better then 2 weeks and no info when new stuff might be coming its there fault

No you got that wrong. I, and with me many are not here because we can’t wait for the LS2 to start. In fact I would be fine if that would never come. I have more fun without the pressure of “do this content now or lose out on it forever”.

I am here to see if we get any news about real content, an upcoming expansion. After the debacle of LS S1. That is what I have been waiting for a long time.

Beliskner.5039:

OMG stop complaining about content i would understand if you didn’t have anything new for 6 months. Let them launch the game in the new country first. If you don’t like it go and play other mmo’s that give you new content every year.

I rather have them giving me new real content every year.

Dondarrion.2748:

I bet part of LS2 development also comes with mechanism to replay stuff or make it more permanent for later experience. They’ve had so much negative criticism about the temporality of LS1 and how it was nice for 2 weeks but then content – good as bad – was gone and not possible to play again.

Well I would hope so but they did get a lot of complains about the LS from pretty early on. I remember myself being active on the forums saying I and many other would prefer better and permanent content. Then Anet said they would start releasing new stuff every two weeks.. Yeah why not? many complains so lets do it every two weeks.

However they said the teams where also bigger so the content would get bigger. I said on that, that it would only mean a bigger list of temporary achievements to do would not make it better but worse. Well we all know that is exactly how it went.

Later they also said they would make stuff more permanent and they sort of did. We did get 2 permanent JP’s and one dungeon patch (not sure if you can see that last one really as part of the LS, but anyway) also they made some cosmetic changes to the world… Well if that is the permanent stuff that they think we want then we are on a complete different level. yes we do want permanent stuff like the JP’s but we (many of us) simply want all the LS stuff to be permanent. No problem at all depending on how you tell the story.

Like I said many times before.. Let the LS be an event that leaves behind permanent content, events, rewards and so on. Don’t link everything to the temporary event.

Anyway, Anet was then warned by many people including me. They did not listen even when they said they would and it worked out like many of us predicted.

So why would we now suddenly do see the change? Maybe we do, maybe not.

Saddest thing about it is that while I don’t like this approach also because of the cash-shop influence on the game (and so would not like the LS even if they put in that stuff) in fact I do believe they could have put much of the expansion-like content in the game with the LS, just like they said they would. But they didn’t. One can only guess why.

The only think that might help is not buying gems and keeping to ask for expansions on the forum. Maybe then somebody who makes the decisions over there will decide they should go for the expansion-model instead.

Arundo.5802:

This is why I always hope game have some sort of subscription model. All Arenanet is doing is create more skins, finishers and other crap for the cashshop. I dont want another fuzzy hat, bunny ears, lama finisher… I want to see a new expansion and new zones to explore.

But there is not room to create those because they need to create items for the cashshop to stay healthy on the cashflow.

Good thing I can spend my time in ESO at the moment, it has bugs and stuff missing but atleast the patches are flying around on a weekly base and new content is coming after just one month.

The problems you are talking about are related to cash-shop not to no subscription. If they would make money with expansions we would already have had one and might even be close to getting a second one.

anzenketh.3759:

Devata.6589:

I asked before if and so how megaservers work in ESO because I have been weary about that since they announced that. Nobody answered that but I did found it out myself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4&t=11m30s It doesn’t work.

How they and ArenaNet made mega servers a different and unrelated.

Yes and no. Part of the problems are the same because part of the implementation is similar. However ESO also made your instance based on your quest, GW2 did not. That is the biggest difference and causes even more problems for ESO.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Again, another thread where everyone can argue and it will mean nothing. If Anet has a vision for mounts I am sure they will act on it or not based on their ideas. It isn’t like mounts are something Anet has never heard of. You all can argue with each other all you want. Feel free to waste your time and efforts going back and forth. In the end every post in this thread is a waste of time including my own. Have fun bickering for no reason aside from getting the last word.

While I would hope Anet does read the forums I do get the feeling they don’t as well. That is also why I wanted to be less active and I really have said everything that I feel had to be said about the game in the forums already.

It is that I came back because of the megaserver-problems and then did get active in 3 other threads.

Btw, sometimes talking with players can help. For example if they start to see things different they might spend money different what can change the game. For example if they buy less gems because they see how that effects parts of the game in a way they do not like it. Just as an example I feel string about.

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Speed boost mounts won’t work. Guardians, for instance, have no perma speed buff other than speed/traveler runes. To give them a perma speed mount would then shift game play ‘balance.’ I really don’t want Anet to waste time rebalancing the game for mounts with speed.

Also, I don’t want mounts in game.

How would that shift any balance when mounts are non-combat mounts?

Zacchary.6183:

But let me ask you this: if people wanted mounts, why don’t we see the broom or drill very often? Why isn’t anet making more of them, perhaps bigger ones at that?

Because while ‘lore’ technical it is a mount (you see a guy flying around on a broom) people don’t see it as a mound. Plus it does not have the many fun elements of mounts (like collecting them).

I do like mounts (as you have noticed by now) but am not really interested in the broom. Sure if I would ever have gold that I don’t know what to spend on the broom is somewhere on the list but nah, it does not give me the mount thing I like.

Conncept.7638:

Astralporing.1957:

Conncept.7638:

If a player want something, just because he or she thinks it will be enjoyable to experience, so far as aesthetics and design go their point is far more valid than that of any who claim something is a poor idea simply because it has been done poorly before in a completely different environment, by completely different people, with completely different design intent and goals.

That’s why i usually just state that i don’t consider that a fun content at all, quite the opposite.

And I’m perfectly fine with that, to tell the truth with how ANet has handled some certain system designs I don’t know or even particularly believe ANet would make an enjoyable mount system given they tried. But I’m not going to offhandedly, and especially maliciously, dismiss those who do think it will be enjoyable, because of that.

Thats why I am so much of an advocate for putting it in an expansion. Without I am afraid they will not be implemented in a fun way. Just like they did not put mini’s in, in a fun way.

Nerelith.7360:

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

That aspect is pretty minor – it adds one bit to the packet describing each character (0 for normal, 1 for mounted). A filter to not see people as mounted is actually as simple as a client-side mask that always turns the mounted/on-foot bit to 0 before handing the packet on to the rendering engine.

The bar to Cosmetics only mounts has been handled. The issue is. Are people that want mounts ONLY happy with a cosmetics only mount?

or

Will other “pro-mount” proponents now come out demanding higher speed boost, perma-speed boost?

While sometimes " slippery slope" is a logical fallacy….. there are times when giving an inch, leads to the other side tugging hard to grab your whole arm.

I have seen it here. There is a distinct difference bettwen a cosmetics only mount that can be " hide mounts" on log in…. and a speed boost mount.

The big question is. Will all the people that want mounts be happy with a cosmetics only mount? Or will this be the cue for the " But it must do something!" crowd to join in? Hence the " slippery slope" NON Logical fallacy?

• cues Carmina Burhana*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-DgS75lfmw

No they are not happy with just cosmetic mounts. Well not really at least. See the broom.

Astralporing.1957:

Gibson.4036:

I’m just wondering if there’s someone with enough tech savvy who can speak to whether the game having to render and animate people completely differently depending on the viewer would be overly burdensome on either the servers or people’s computers (no idea where that kind of thing is handled).

There’s already a toggle that lets your client render other people differently – the generic look/culling option.

Gibson.4036:

It’s easy to dismiss anything with the idea that it begins a slippery slope into some tragic conclusion. There’s no reason why a 33% (equivalent to current swiftness) would automatically lead to a 120% speed boost mount, and no reason why it would lead beyond to flying mounts.

There is a reason. it is called all the previous mount threads. They always start with “visuals” only. It doesn’t take long when people (often the same peole that were first “content with visual only”) start asking for speed buffs. Usually they don’t stop at speed buffs either (combat advantage and stat buffs are often mentioned as well).
You can see some of it in this thread already.

I have not seen that happen a lot. Personally I am always clear from the beginning. I like mounts including speed-boost (and yes, more the the normal running speeds). Personally I even like flying mounts but while I would love to see mounts in this game I would be fine with no flying mounts (even if they made the worlds seamless.. At the current implementation flying mounts isn’t even really possible.

Nike.2631:

Gibson.4036:

It’s easy to dismiss anything with the idea that it begins a slippery slope into some tragic conclusion.

My slippery slope pretty much starts at where we are now and ends with all of the permanent 25% speed buffs in game now obsoleted/overshadowed by a piece of gear. I tend to think that’s pretty bad without having to sink into hysterics to try and convince others of that .

To reiterate an earlier comment – if mounts took up the elite skill slot, I’d be pretty content that a opportunity cost was being paid proportionate to the advantage gained.

It would not be obsolete because on normal PvE fights you can’t use the mount speed boost but you can use the other speed buffs.

VOLKON.1290:

Again, I’m still solidly in the “no mount” group. That being that, I don’t think a “hide mounts” option would work… would we see people floating in the air on an invisible mount? Very odd. Instead, let me add to this list a #5…

No your client just gets a location and then renders that person on that location. The location would be the same on a mount or without and so you render you correctly.

About the points. Except for the speed one (I would want the speed and in fact I might even want less Waypoints while you guys dont want mounts to effect the waypoints system).

The rest is fine by me. However Anet is clearly thinking to add combst mounts if they add mounts. So you might be out of luck it if comes to that.

I would say, combat mounts in some new WvW maps and non-combat in PvE.

Gibson.4036:

I’m not a programmer, but wouldn’t the option to hide all mounts for some players add to the complexity of what the game has to handle?

I’m just wondering if there’s someone with enough tech savvy who can speak to whether the game having to render and animate people completely differently depending on the viewer would be overly burdensome on either the servers or people’s computers (no idea where that kind of thing is handled).

I know we already have the system where the game can render some people as the weird, grey default profession model, so something like it already exists. But that’s just the model. All the animations stay consistent.

Should not be a huge problem. When adding mounts the server will send your client that the other guy is on a mount including some details of that mount. Don’t send that information (or ignore it) and your client will behave as if he is not on a mount.

However when you start hiding mounts then why not hide legendary?

Nike.2631:

joneb.5679:

Theres no reasons not to have mounts permanent.

…Other than that mounts BREAK certain cost/benefit options already in the game. Speed buffs without cost is pure power creep. Doubly so in a game where speed is already available and priced pretty high on the utility/benefit scale.

As long as bonus speed exists through signets, weapon skills, and 6/6 rune sets, click inventory for speed without combat-ability costs is very unlikely to happen.

There is NOTHING that including mounts would break or hold back from development if just a little thought is put into it.

You can say it, but that doesn’t make it true.

I would imagine a mound would cost you effort to get. It would not be something they would just give away.

I asked before if and so how megaservers work in ESO because I have been weary about that since they announced that. Nobody answered that but I did found it out myself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4&t=11m30s It doesn’t work.

Sartharina.3542:

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

Actually, you both are wrong. At 1% chance of item dropping, the chance to not get it within 100 tries is about 37% (36.6something). So, the chance to get it is higher than 50%, but nowhere close to 100%.

I did mean closer. Did not do the math myself. Are you however sure it’s 37% to not get it.

Anyway the exact numbers aren’t even what it is about. All I was saying is that on average a drop would take you x hours and grinding gold to buy it would then also take you about x hours.

And my point is that those X hours have value, and they’re better spent on doing something you find fun in itself than something you’re not having fun doing in preparation of getting what you want and waiting until then to have fun.

Working towards that item (directly) can be what makes it fun for me. At least make it fun to do it multiple times. Because of that rush.. will it drop. And the item itself feels much more rewarding.

Beldin.5498:

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

Actually, you both are wrong. At 1% chance of item dropping, the chance to not get it within 100 tries is about 37% (36.6something). So, the chance to get it is higher than 50%, but nowhere close to 100%.

I did mean closer. Did not do the math myself. Are you however sure it’s 37% to not get it.

Anyway the exact numbers aren’t even what it is about. All I was saying is that on average a drop would take you x hours and grinding gold to buy it would then also take you about x hours.

What you forget is that 1/100 means 2/200 .. so if Lucky Guy gets his drop on the first try that means 1/199 now for Unlucky Guy aka me

Lucky and unlucky guys don’t exist. It’s all math. Yeah somebody might have the luck on getting it on the first go and you might have bad luck getting it on try 120 but the next item you go for you might be in luck.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

Actually, you both are wrong. At 1% chance of item dropping, the chance to not get it within 100 tries is about 37% (36.6something). So, the chance to get it is higher than 50%, but nowhere close to 100%.

I did mean closer. Did not do the math myself. Are you however sure it’s 37% to not get it.

Anyway the exact numbers aren’t even what it is about. All I was saying is that on average a drop would take you x hours and grinding gold to buy it would then also take you about x hours.

Dusty Moon.4382:

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

With your argument there would be no reason to add any new fun content and all we get would be for QoL patches.

…i have already addressed that in this discussion, several pages ago. I will quote it back:

Any new introduction to the game needs to be weighted in terms of necessity (does the game needs it?), desirability (do the people want it? are the people against it?) and difficulty (how hard it is to implement). For something to be done, the first two need to outweight the third.

What you are speaking now is the second point (desirability). Fun content worth introducing is the one that is fun to majority, or one that is fun for significant number of players and has no strong opposition.

Mounts are a content that is indeed fun to some, but so far there is nothing to suggest that it fulfills one of those criteria. Quite the opposite, in fact.

In short, you were unable to prove so far that it is indeed a fun content. Only, that it is fun personally to you. Those are not the same.

Yeah and you said that

So again, by your definition, new content would never be introduces because there will always be people want wanting it and they outweighs those wanting it.

No. reread what i wrote. It works that way here, because those that want mounts are not in majority (or at least nothing points to them being in one).

So, to rephrase what you said so it actually follows what I have said:

“If something that is not in the game and there are people who want it for fun and there are people who do not want it, and there is at least as many people that do not want it, then the not wanting out-waits the wanting because it takes away more fun that it brings”.

Pretty sure you are wrong about that majority part. It would be a uge selling point for an expansions because so many people are interested in it.

Not as many as you think – the broom didn’t sell well so why would others?

Because it was just a skin that most people don’t even see as a mount and does not fit’s with most races / armor. As you can see by the many people here who forget about it when saying there are no mounts or it’s not in the core.

Now make mounts real mounts with speed-boost and multiple mounts to pick from. Stuff that fits better then a silly broom and you can expect more interest.

I am obviously interested in mounts and I did not get the broom yet. I don’t really see it as a mount but form a ‘lore’ perspective it of course is.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Pretty sure you are wrong about that majority part. It would be a uge selling point for an expansions because so many people are interested in it.

Now you are assuming. There is absolutely no indication that ratio of people that want mounts vs those that do not want them is any different in game than in this forum.

Yeah I am assuming. Thats why I say “I am pretty sure” not “it is” like you did, while in fact you where also assuming.

Sartharina.3542:

Devata.6589:

Beldin.5498:

Taygus.4571:

Ok let me rephrase;
the main problem isn;t the grind, it’s that it’s the SAME grind for everything ingame.

And personally, as someone who never has luck with RNG i like that much more because when i grind for gold i can play whatever content i want and see a constent progress, while when i need to grind maybe Mob X for item Y i can do that 100 hours and in the end get nothing. And of course i don’t have the choice to play whatever content i like and must maybe play what i really dislike if i want that item.

No,
If you want one specific mini that is account-bound then yes you need to do that specific content. But first of all I am not saying that they all should be account-bound. Some might be many won’t. So grinding your gold is still an option for most of them. (just like now)

The gold-grind will also not help you to be more likely to get it. The amount of gold you make often still depends partly of RNG. And if a mini drops 1 in a 100 times then you can be pretty sure you have it before you did it 100 times.

To get the correct amount of money you might also need to do something else about 100 times. So that does not change a thing.

Stuff that is hard but gives a guaranteed drop would most likely be account-bound.

No, there is no guarantee that you can be pretty sure you have it before you do it 100 times. In fact, I’m pretty sure the actual chance is less than 50%.

And, when going for Gold instead of farming specific mobs, it doesn’t have to be the SAME event 100 times. I can do whatever the hell I feel like whenever I want for however long I want, and eventually get what I want, having fun the entire time.

If you think the chance would be less then 50% at a 100 times where it drops 1/100 then you have a problem with math. At 100 tries it would be close to 100 but will never be 100.

No I never said 100 the same things. What I am getting at is that you just do something for an equal amount of time / effort.

Anyway that all does not matter. What matters is that if you would specific rewards behind specific content you still still grind gold if thats you thing. The way it is now it’s the only way.

Tolmos.8395:

I would prefer different grinds to affect different things. Instanced grinds for multiple new tiers of gear beyond exotic, whose stats ONLY affect those instances. Once you step foot outside you go back to exotic gear. Anet could then go crazy with tiers, and it would reduce the affect on external players thus reduce the whine (not eliminate, but reduce).

Basically, split grinds into 3 categories:

1) PvP grind – grinding for pvp loots, skins, level books, etc (lots of grinding because it really isn’t grinding as much as just doing what you’d normally do anyway)
2) Dungeon grind – grinding for tiers of armor that affect dungeons and ONLY dungeons. Outside of dungeons, this armor is reduced to exotic level(lots of grinding, because that’s really what dungeons are about anyway. No grind, no point in doing dungeons more than once or twice)
3) Open world grind – grinding for whatever in the open world. New skins, map completion, living story stuff, etc. (Minimal grind here. This is the area for the no grind people)

Like they did with SAB you mean?