Guild Wars 2

Lambent.6375:

Devata.6589:

Lambent.6375:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I spend probably 4-5 hours a week raiding. 13 weeks without anything is an anomaly and I have a difficult time believing this claim.

Still, raiding is more entertaining that sitting at a crafting station in GW2 and by far, raiding is not the only end game activity.

The only long part about crafting is gathering the materials, which can be done using different methods by just playing the game.

You mean by grinding gold?

Playing the game.

Edit: dungeons, world bosses, cursed shore events, roaming in level 80 zones killing mobs, etc.

I don’t know about spvp since I don’t play it, but I hear it’s decent too.

So you can do dungeons to do your crafting? That would be great if dungeons would drop specific recipe’s or maybe specific stuff you need but what I have seen all that might drop is some of the mats you need but not in high enough qualities that doing a dungeons to get those mats is rewarding enough. Plus I want mats to be more easy accessible then having to farm dungeons for them, more in the line of mining or farming a mob in a area where it drops a lot of that material (for example blood) so you can just go there for a few minutes to farm the blood you need.

However having to really work hard for a specific item you need or a recipe would be great. But like I said, I have not really seen that (molten facility had it, but that was temporary).

Same for your other examples.

Wasbunny.6531:

Devata.6589:

Well mainly that gold is the primary or only way to get things and so you need to grind gold for all those things. Having gold / an economy as an extra is ok but not being able to work directly for many items but having to grind gold to buy them.. thats what I am talking about.

My famous mini example again. With the exception of a few mini most simply require you to grind gold and then buy them with gold. There is no option for you to get them from specific content ingame. This seems to be related to them wanting to sell gems but that does not make it any better. For a B2P game maybe even worse.

Same for a legendary.. what is the best way to get it? Grind gold and then buy what you need. It;s not working in game towards the items you need directly by doing specific content (farming, doing events and so on).

I do genuinely agree with part of what I think you’re suggesting.

I think back on my most prized possession, the Liadri mini. I earned that thing through endless hours of blood, sweat, and tears and when I finally bested her…was probably one of the best GW2 moments I’ve had. I did not (could not) buy it, I couldn’t champ train, buy gems, farm, or do anything but prove myself in order to earn it. It really is the only reward I’ve ever cared about in the game and when I proudly display it anyone who fought Liadri knows how hard I had to work to get it, and that it is well deserved.

I do sincerely wish more things were obtainable only through content, without the option to buy with gold or gems. It would make those things all the more valuable and treasured.

Specific drops from Tequatl or the Great Wurm are sort of in the right direction as they can’t be traded and prove at least you were there and got lucky. I would love to see the luck taken out of it though, so you are justly rewarded with real treasure for real effort.

Yeah that is what I am talking about. While I would not mind if many of those items would not be account-bound (they would then likely be extremely pricey) some might indeed be.

I did miss out on that one and I do hope it comes back so I can have a go at it. Anyway what you saying about how that makes it have more value for you.

And just as how that gives something more value, grinding gold for it to buy it totally disvalues it for me and grinding gold is just not fun to me.

Lambent.6375:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

I spend probably 4-5 hours a week raiding. 13 weeks without anything is an anomaly and I have a difficult time believing this claim.

Still, raiding is more entertaining that sitting at a crafting station in GW2 and by far, raiding is not the only end game activity.

The only long part about crafting is gathering the materials, which can be done using different methods by just playing the game.

You mean by grinding gold?

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

We have had multiple discussions in the past and they tent to always be very long. I think we both have said how we think about things. So I will now keep my answers shorter

You say “Others will like the exclusivity of some rewards.” Thats a reason I do hear alot and seems to make sense. However if you put rewards / items / skins behind specific content it can also stay very exclusive because you have to be specifically working towards it to get it. It does not have to be temporary for that. Even better, if you then have it, it shows you really did something for it to get it and not just that you where there at an specific moment. To take the WoW example. There are very exclusive mini’s in the game that have been available since it launched 10 years ago.

The excusivity was just an example of how people like different things. Your solution will work in a sense but fail in another. Sure you can have exclusivity with permanent content but you do that by making it very very hard to acquire. I have a friend who’s been trying regularly to get one of the rarest mounts in WoW for the past 5 years. The Odds are known and statistically this mount if you play the raid that drops it every single week should drop in an average of 46 years! Its super exclusive cause your only way of getting it is being extremely luck and beating the odds. Some people, my self included would rather have a situation where you have to put a moderate effort in new content for a 2 week time span then repeating the same raid for the 260th time without success.

Different people like different things.

That is an extreme example and if thats the case thats also not good. Especially when it’s time-gated. The mini I am talking about had I thing something of a 1 in few thousand drop-rate. seems like a lot but you had an area where those mobs where a lot and they dye with one kill.

For dungeons you want to make it a little higher drop-rate. The fact thats WoW does that wrong with that mount does not mean it can’t be done right.

However is does show how people work towards something. That itself is content. You in a way proof what I what trying to say all the time.

Galen Grey.4709:

@Devata

sorry I disagree rewards absolutely do not make content fun. Never did never will, they may make it worth while but they’re never going to make it fun. If you hate say PvP you’re not going to find it fun just cause doing it will get you a legendary. You may be happy to endure it cause you really want a legendary but you’re still not going to find it enjoyable.

Yes I’d consider a map thats been poisoned to be content, even more then a reward actually. When kessex hills got poisoned it provided hours worth of exploration for me to find out all that changed. When I got my Sclerite back item I was happy cause it goes really well with my necro sure but the skin itself didnt give me a single second of content to enjoy as such (well beyond appreciating my character’s look of course but then again I wouldnt enjoy hours of doing nothing but looking at my character but I did enjoy exploring and investigating). Simply speaking I am making a major distinction here that you seem not to be doing or well different Point of views not sure. But rewards dont provide game play to me, they’re things I get out of game play. Simply speaking gameplay without a reward can be fun if the content is enjoyable. Reward without gameplay is never fun cause you enjoy the game play not the reward.

If you remove cosmetics you’re still left with all of the gameplay. Again rewards by themselves are meaningless. Imagine if you stripped gw2 of all its events, all its dungeons, fractals, jping, vistas, gather nodes every kind of content you can play. You’re just left with the world and friendly NPC and you’re given every single reward that was released every for free by email. Would you enjoy that game? cause i definitely would not (well after exploring it all at least )

They can not make really bad content fun but they can add something to it even to boring content. I remember farming mobs for a drop. By itself not great content but you have fun because every time there is the rush of will the kitten thing drop.

Oow and i never said you could strip everything else away as long as you had rewards. You need both. Thats why I talk about achievements and rewards. You then focused on the rewards, in my opinion you need both just as much.

Wasbunny.6531:

Devata.6589:

Interesting post about how WoW locks some content behind gear and how GW2 does that less but that does not mean there is no grind. For example for all the cosmetics, and the fact that something is optional does not mean it does not require grind. The whole game is about cosmetics.

I think I see the misunderstanding here.

You are defining ‘grind’ as: Gold (in-game economy as a whole)

Therefore: ‘For example for all the cosmetics, and the fact that something is optional does not mean it does not require gold. The whole game is about cosmetics.’

Now this makes perfect sense and I would have to agree that an in-game economy exists and gold can be used to buy most things in game. The process of acquiring gold through every single activity in the game doesn’t seem to be the sticking point. Just that an economy exists where certain things have an associated cost.

It would be an interesting discussion thread to talk about the pros and cons of eliminating the in-game economy altogether, making everything free from the start.

These kinds of misunderstandings are why it’s so important to first define the definition of ‘grind’ before being able to debate about it.

Well mainly that gold is the primary or only way to get things and so you need to grind gold for all those things. Having gold / an economy as an extra is ok but not being able to work directly for many items but having to grind gold to buy them.. thats what I am talking about.

My famous mini example again. With the exception of a few mini most simply require you to grind gold and then buy them with gold. There is no option for you to get them from specific content ingame. This seems to be related to them wanting to sell gems but that does not make it any better. For a B2P game maybe even worse.

Same for a legendary.. what is the best way to get it? Grind gold and then buy what you need. It;s not working in game towards the items you need directly by doing specific content (farming, doing events and so on).

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

No it is the opposite of what they did with most LS.

99% off all events, rewards and achivements where link to the event not to what was left behind. See LA.

I am sorry but you just didnt pay enough attention if you truely believe that because there most definitely was a flow to the story and not just direct flow but indirect as well.
For example in Flame and Frost the Motlen alliance displaced a bunch of refugees as well as razed to the ground cragstead. In secret of southsun those refugees were used by the consortium to speed up the buildup of southsun infrastructure. (Link here is obviously the refugees) even when that event ended the refugees didnt just go poof, they moved to cragstead which was rebuild release after release even though absolutely nothing happened there after flame and frost. They still kept updating cragstead even with new dialog. Thats far from focusing everything on an event by event bases. Thats just one example. jubilee -> clockwork chaos, Cutthroat politics -> Fractals, Toxic Tower -> toxic alliance invasions, plenty of LW releases built on previous releases.

I know that, I said that Anet makes the story and so they can also make the story to fit permanent content instead of fitting temporary content.

how can they do that?

to keep content around indefinitely you can’t have a resolution to it. just look at zaithan and orr. Its stuck in an infinite time loop. We got to the conclusion but nothing really changed except we’re told that things changed.

Then look at the LW. Things came had their effect on the world and things actually changed based on the result. Tower of nightmares blew up, debris everywhere. Invasion on LA, LA is in ruines. We’ve beating the Motlen alliance, their Facilities are gone etc..

What you are now saying is that dynamic events do not give the feeling of a living world because they keep going in circles. And thats correct. the content that is left behind is indeed not what make it feels alive. It’s the fact that an event happed that left those activities behind and so changed the world. Not the activities by itself.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Galen Grey.4709:

What I mean to say is at the end of the day there is just content. After that content is consumed I dont think there is much interest in getting back to it.

Problem that stays is WHEN you do it (for the first time). Same for the rewards.

If somebody now comes into the game he might hear about an events we did related to the nightmare tower but he is not able to do that anymore… also not for a first time.

He might see a skin and ask, where did you get that? To then get the answer that it’s not available anymore.

Now imagine the stuff was permanent he could do that event or could start working towards that rewards. (of course events needed to be designed to be less of zerg content but thats only a positive imho)

Then only remove the fact that working towards rewards is now almost always a gold-grind (in LS that was better as some items where not, problem there was that it was time-limited). And many people can still have many stuff to do or to work towards.

That would be way much more fun then the answer, nope sorry can’t do / get that anymore. Even for the people that play the content because they now need to do it our miss out in it forever and I very much dislike that feeling.

There are always many faces to every situation. Yes of course you’re right some people will regret not being able to get some of the past rewards. Others will like the exclusivity of some rewards. In anycase (granted right now it doesnt hold true) there will be other content with other rewards to enjoy. Thats a crucial thing, no one can play all of the content at the same time thats why temporary content isnt so bad as many think because as long as they keep releasing it so frequently there will always be something new to do and in my opinion and I am sure I am not the only one, something new to do is a lot better then something old I can reroll a character to visit again after leveling up for god knows how long. Its infinitely better imho.

To experience the content and the story all you needed is 1 – 2 days every 2 weeks. To get the event reward you needed maybe 5. is it really that bad? if you cant invest 2 days every 2 weeks making everything permanent is not going to help anyway because say you can only play 1 day per month. In a year you’d be 1/2 the content behind and if anything thats a much worst situation in my opinion that missing 1/2 the content but at least be up to date and able to participate with everyone else on the latest released content then soloing up content everyone played 6 months ago and for the most part no one else is still interested in.

We have had multiple discussions in the past and they tent to always be very long. I think we both have said how we think about things. So I will now keep my answers shorter

You say “Others will like the exclusivity of some rewards.” Thats a reason I do hear alot and seems to make sense. However if you put rewards / items / skins behind specific content it can also stay very exclusive because you have to be specifically working towards it to get it. It does not have to be temporary for that. Even better, if you then have it, it shows you really did something for it to get it and not just that you where there at an specific moment. To take the WoW example. There are very exclusive mini’s in the game that have been available since it launched 10 years ago.

Galen Grey.4709:

Did you ever consider your too focused on rewards? also thats not the only time new events were left behind after the release. New permanent events were added in: shadow of the mad king, Last stand at southsun, clockwork chaos, tower of nightmares. Thats nearly 20% of all the releases. and thats not counting guild missions, mini dungeons which while not exactly DE its quite similar.

First of all, rewards can make content fun (something you work towards) and this game is all about cosmetics. Most rewards are cosmetics. Because of that it’s also not just a reward, like I gave the example of somebody seeing a skin he likes and then wants to get that skin but he can’t because it’s not available anymore.

Devata.6589:

Okey I get it now, for you a major component of content is rewards, that explains a lot atually. Fair enough cant argue with that, but consider some people enjoy playing the content for the content and not for the rewards.

The content are mainly the activities, the rewards are linked to that content. Or do you consider the fact that a map got poisoned content? It does not give me anything playable or something to work towards. Exactly that was activities and yes rewards do.

There is not much playable content left and the reward is mainly something to work towards. It gives something extra to that content.

Devata.6589:

well a jubilee is a celebration of a royal anniversary so it can happen every year no problem. But if it changes a bit I would consider that a good thing. Why would you want everything static. In my opinion thats a great strength Gw2 has they’re not afraid to throw away material just to make the world feel alive. Even in real life, sure you can have some events that are iconic that are repeated year after year in a celebration but there will always be an attempt to put in something new so the event never stagnates. I think they’re to be lauded for that I am sure it would be much easier for them to just replace the same halloween as last year and work on something else or even take the month off.

Its up to you ofcourse but Gw2 has never been an ideal game for people who focus on rewards. Gw2 is a game thats best enjoyed when you play it for the joy of playing it. People who tried to get ascended gear too quickly because they focused on rewards find the game super grindy (with good reason) those who didnt focus on rewards took 3 – 5 times longer but can still afford the same rewards and enjoyed the game every step of the way. The same applies to everything. Worst thing you can do in this game is play it like a checklist

“But if it changes a bit I would consider that a good thing.” No that is fine, they can add some stuff or change some of the events a little.

“In my opinion thats a great strength Gw2 has they’re not afraid to throw away material just to make the world feel alive.” Throwing stuff away does not make the work feel alive. There are two thinks that do. 1We having an impact on it.. well we don’t, then you need a more sandbox like game. 2 changes in the world. That happens. But the fact that all those activities are not available anymore does not make the world feel more alive then if the event spawned a lot of activities we could still do. Having events that change the world and then leave activities there for ever would make it feel just as much alive.

This game is all about cosmetics, if you take that out then what is left? Some stuff but not much. Besides that is the case is most game. Being it working towards stats or fluff people are usually working towards something like that. It’s the nature of RPG games. That and exploring / having adventures.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

No it is the opposite of what they did with most LS.

99% off all events, rewards and achivements where link to the event not to what was left behind. See LA.

I am sorry but you just didnt pay enough attention if you truely believe that because there most definitely was a flow to the story and not just direct flow but indirect as well.
For example in Flame and Frost the Motlen alliance displaced a bunch of refugees as well as razed to the ground cragstead. In secret of southsun those refugees were used by the consortium to speed up the buildup of southsun infrastructure. (Link here is obviously the refugees) even when that event ended the refugees didnt just go poof, they moved to cragstead which was rebuild release after release even though absolutely nothing happened there after flame and frost. They still kept updating cragstead even with new dialog. Thats far from focusing everything on an event by event bases. Thats just one example. jubilee -> clockwork chaos, Cutthroat politics -> Fractals, Toxic Tower -> toxic alliance invasions, plenty of LW releases built on previous releases.

I know that, I said that Anet makes the story and so they can also make the story to fit permanent content instead of fitting temporary content.

naiasonod.9265:

The biggest and most vital difference between GW2’s design philosophy and WoW’s design philosophy, when it comes to all things gear related, is that someone running around in full ascended gear with legendary weapon is not monumentally more powerful than someone wearing all 80 greens. More powerful, yes. Dealing 2-3x as much damage, having ~1.5-2x more hp and being considerably more able to do everything in the game? No.

In WoW, a fully geared heroic raider is literally like a god compared to someone that’s also max level but only geared in, oh…crafted equipment and quest rewards. There’s not even any viable comparison. Its like comparing the height difference between a midget and a giraffe – we don’t need to break out the measuring tape to get the accurate gist, in short.

Its pretty much a constant problem. Some love it because they think it keeps people motivated and struggling to be top. Others hate it, hate everyone better than them and despise everyone worse off than them. Some just try to have fun puttering around trying to not care too much about gear, but in WoW, if you don’t have at least decent gear, you’re basically crippled from even being able to participate meaningfully in assorted activities, and will absolutely not be welcome to even try in most.

Blizzard makes it very time consuming by dint of lots of RNG to gear up. Here in GW2, things are rather deterministic. Personally, I love that. I don’t mind putting effort in if I know it’ll eventually get me somewhere.

In WoW? I used to raid with a guy that went 13 weeks in the latest raid tier without getting a single piece of gear. We raided two nights a week that he got in on. He wound up having to do LFR in his spare time just to get any tier at all, but that’s the way the cookie crumbled. Our guild was kind’ve screwy when it came to gear.

That’s the other side of raiding – the social politics. The guild I just recently walked away from is led by a husband and wife duo that run the whole show like its their personal cult of personality. You will be bright and bubbly and you will say ‘Grats!’ in guild chat whenever someone gets an achievement and you will do what you’re told in that guild, or ‘there will be consequences’. They like not telling anyone what the consequences will be.

You find out on raid night. ‘Ok, everyone roll for the <Linked Item>. Stickboy wins it! Unfortunately, Stickboy’s been a jerk all week in guild and didn’t bother wishing Lindabear a happy birthday even though he was online when she announced it. Learn your lesson, Stickboy. The <Linked Item> goes to <Person that rolled second highest> instead.’

And people will frequently put up with things like this in WoW to heroic raid, at least where I was at.

Welcome to WoW, eh?

I’m glad to be here on GW2. I feel like I’ve escaped an asylum wherein all the inmates think they’re the only sane ones, and now I can just…be.

its nice out here. So…unbelievably nice.

Interesting post about how WoW locks some content behind gear and how GW2 does that less but that does not mean there is no grind. For example for all the cosmetics, and the fact that something is optional does not mean it does not require grind. The whole game is about cosmetics.

smekras.8203:

Devata.6589:

Way-points don’t fit the lore and make the world-size trivial. You might like them, I think they are used to much especially for when you would introduce mounts.

to say waypoints do not fit the lore is to say asura gates do not fit the lore. it’s absurd. if you want to argue for mounts, you’ll have to do better

…seriously guys… it’s not broken, why fix it?

Waypoints fit the lore. Thats why it’s never been talked about? And that is why NPC’s never use them? And that is why we escort people from one place (with a waypoint) to another place (with a waypoint). Yeah makes sense. Waypoints are totally part of the lore.

Bobby.3721:

Not this again….

Please stop bringing this up. Guild Wars has never had, nor needed mounts. That’s one of the reasons I like Guild Wars better than other mmo games because it more or less realizes that kind of stuff is just unneeded cosmetic fluff.

Lol you are talking about a game that is mostly about cosmetics. Oow and GW 1 did have mounts. Maybe you are talking about another game?

Hybrid.7059:

Mounts? In this game? What a stupid idea. There is absolutely no benefit in having them. Every single reply in favor of them inevitably comes down to a different variation of, “I just want it so I can look cool”. Please.

The reason for most items in this game. So if you don’t like that reason and we would take all items out of this game that are in mainly for such a reason there would not be much left.

Nerelith.7360:

Hickeroar.9734:

GW2’s maps are far too small for mounts. You can run all the way across any zone in the game in a couple minutes. Even the largest WvW maps are still only about 4-5 minutes wide/tall. Mounts would be complete overkill.

Why get on a mount anyway when you can just open your map and waypoint within a couple hundred yards of just about anything instantly.

Their replies Boil down to :

1. Because it would be cool.
2. because I need to look at Bling.
3. because I want others to see my Bling, and Nothing is more visible bling than a Mount.
4. because I want a permanent speed boost …
5. because I want to fly
6. because I want it.

So pretty much the same reason as every item in this game.

Nerelith.7360:

Tyragon.2496:

I would say yes, in the far future.

Something GW2 is rich of is a great combat system, very dynamic. It would be perfect for mount combat compared to other games that’s tried it.

But, the negative part is that mounts usually means increased speed. In order for mounts to work in GW2 they’d have to be just as slow as running, perhaps be able to give a temporary movement speed buff like the abilities we have to give Swiftness.

Mounts would be fun, if we look at the cosmetic part of it and the possibility for mount combat and forget the part about “increased movement speed for travel”. Though as I mentioned, mounts as slow as running seems ridiculous and this is where the whole mount idea starts to fall apart.

The whole issue about Mounts is… the speed boost. And to be honest the game designers made this game so that mounts are not needed. The Waypoins were set up so many, and so packed together, so that we do not need speed boost mounts.

Why are you so sure thats why they put in those waypoints?
If it was all planned like that then why are there mounts in the art-style of the game. And why did they not implement waypoints in the lore of the game?

Looking at waypoints it’s more like if they got thrown in without much through, more as a solution to solve a problem.

Maybe they did plan mounts and maybe they wanted a real open seamless world. The trailer from 2009 for sure gives that impression (open world part). But when they did not manage to get there core to function like that they had to work with instanced maps. Then mounts can be a problem because if a map is small and you need to use a mount to travel from one area to another you might need to go through multiple maps and that would mean loading screens for every map. So maybe waypoints are not so much how the game was designed but more a solution for a problem.

Whenever we get a new patch or an expansion they might have solved that problem and so there might be no need to waypoints as solution to it.

I am just speculating here but the problem is that you seem to be so sure that is it designed by this because thats really what they wanted while in fact there is nothing that points towards that.

Astralporing.1957:

Devata.6589:

Way-points don’t fit the lore and make the world-size trivial.

If that is your main problem, then you should be against mounts (as anything that makes you travel faster diminishes the size of the world)

Pretty much talked about all the other things you mentioned already so I will just react on that last statement.

For sure mounts would make a world smaller then no mounts but the big difference is that you still experience the whole world. With waypoints you skip it after the first time.

Nerelith.7360:

Devata.6589:

Dusty Moon.4382:

Devata.6589:

Zacchary.6183:

So that we don’t have multiple posts saying the same things with different wording I am going to issue multiple choice for both sides based on the general issues they bring up.

1.) I want mounts because:

a.) Immersion.
b.) Reasons.
c.) Mount haters don’t have legitimate reasons.
d.) so easy to do!
e.) THEY have mounts. (points to other MMOs)

2.) I don’t want mounts because:

a.) waypoints already exist, so no point in having mounts.
b.) extra screen clutter.
c.) possibility of griefing with mounts.
e.) this isn’t every other MMO
f.) unfair advantage with speed boost.

Choose your poison.

Well you forget a lot of element for having mounts. Like possible adding a whole new PvE element to the game (collecting them in the world.) I don’t think Anet would implement them in a good way looking at there track record but still it’s an option.

Also when introducing them for new maps they can decrease waypoints so they would make the world feel bigger.

They could also bee seen as an extra form of skin just like legendaries and this whole game pretty much is about skins so it would make sense from that viewpoint.

Lastly many people simply think it’s fun to have them.

About the negative. Screen-clutter would only be a possible problem inside city’s and it would be possible to let people dismount there.

What new PvE element? None – you can get anywhere faster by portals than a mount. The world is big enough – mounts make worlds seem smaller not bigger.

As was said, it is more than ‘clicking add mount’ in their game engine. Too many things have to be looked at, balanced, AND MODELED. It is NOT A TRIVIAL THING YOU ARE ASKING FOR.

I just feel there are many things that can be more useful in the game like an out house……

“What new PvE element? " Lol I did answer that with one example already but if you need me to copy paste it no problem. “collecting them in the world.”

“mounts make worlds seem smaller not bigger.” VS no fast travel so only walking they might seem to make it smaller yes, however vs way-points they would make it much bigger.

I never said it was ‘clicking add mount’. It it trivial to you not to many other people. For other people collecting things like mount is there main game-play element. And because GW2 is so heavily skin focused for GW2 it is a very big addition.

Sounds as if you desire the devs to remove the waypoints or to remove MOST waypoints so that having a speed boost mount would make sense.

I only have two things to say about it:

1. Good luck with that.
2. Don’t hold your breath.

PS: for the people for whom collecting mounts is a main play element…all I have to say is…. they bought the wrong game. It happens.

Anet never said mounts would be a part of this game. If collecting mounts is what some people play MMO’s for exclusively… they need to find another game that has mounts, this one doesn’t. And it seems that it never will.

It’s another thing people could collect, not the only one. This game was advertised as being about cosmetics so mounts would make perfect sense. Then again it was also being advertised and sold as B2P and we now pretty much still have a F2P like game with there cash-shop focus that monetizes exactly that cosmetic part of it. So you could say that everybody who did buy it on what is was advertised as would have both the wrong game.

And removing waypoint or having less waypoints can also be done in new maps. It’s also not to have mounts make sense. They already make sense. The problem is that waypoints do not make sense (A whole lore about portals but they also have waypoints that make the portals completely obsolete.. then why have portals at all.. besides how do waypoints work? We have some teleport device with us? No lore about that at all. And why use dolyacs to transfer goods also in many missions when we have to guide npc’s. Just use the waypoints. However waypoints is a player only thing as you might have noticed.. Thats because they don’t exist in the lore.) while mounts do make sense but are not in the game.

Nerelith.7360:

Temperess Midnight.8326:

well all keep dreaming i like to see how this game would do mounts and how they would implument them and it should be are choice to have one or not and it be cool to vote on the subjet to see how me ppl in the game would like to see mount brought in to the world of GW2

The Only vote that counts is that of the developers, and they don’t want mounts. They implement a Waypoint System to NOT have Mounts.,

Personally I have no interest in seeing how they might be implemented. I have less than zero desire to see a mount On gw2.

Colin said that they would look into mounts. So if you say they absolutely do not want mounts you wrong.

nibblesalil.3561:

the majority rules no mounts i think this should end there , the devs dont want them the majority doesnt want them there for the answer is no

you can take it or leave it not gona make a diffrence

the answer is nope , no and long answer noooooooooooooooooo

Pretty sure the majority rules mounts.

Romo.3709:

Devata.6589:

“What new PvE element? " Lol I did answer that with one example already but if you need me to copy paste it no problem. “collecting them in the world.”

“mounts make worlds seem smaller not bigger.” VS no fast travel so only walking they might seem to make it smaller yes, however vs way-points they would make it much bigger.

I never said it was ‘clicking add mount’. It it trivial to you not to many other people. For other people collecting things like mount is there main game-play element. And because GW2 is so heavily skin focused for GW2 it is a very big addition.

It’s like saying, lets scrap planes and cars and lets go back to horses.

No… Just NO.

No it’s saying that if you have cars and planes it can still be good to use a bike.

Teleporting everywhere can be useful but it does take away part of the content and the adventure. A game is not only about usefulness but also about fun, exploring and so on.

Wasbunny.6531:

naiasonod.9265:

(feel bad about snipping such a great post, but for the sake of space…)
~snip~
Trust me, if you’ve never been to the depths of a game in which gear was the measure of your worth, you’re fortunate. GW2 feels like I’ve died and gone to heaven, where the air smells like warm rootbeer and the towels are oh so fluffy in comparison.

So very true.

Let’s imagine that Citadel of Flame is only accessible after a gear check, full ascended armor & weapons or no entry at all. Then lets imagine ascended gear is not craftable and only drops randomly in chests in Honor of the Waves.

Now imagine HotW requires full exotics or no entry and exotics are not craftable and are only found as random drops in chests in Twilight Arbor.

Further imagine that instead of everyone in the party getting an equal chance for the ascended or exotic drop they need in order to get into the next dungeon/raid only one person has a chance to get the item. If the party is lucky enough to have the gear show up in the chest they must ‘need/greed’ roll to see who gets it, with the possibility of someone stealing it outright.

Can you imagine the grind and negativity this kind of gear check would cause? Luckily no game is sadistic enough to put it’s players through that.

As far as I know in WoW thats only true for the highest tier raid dungeons. I am never busy with maxing stats but never had a problem getting into dungeons.

In that way it’s not different in GW2 as highest levels fractals would require highest level gear. (ascended)

naiasonod.9265:

Trust me, if you’ve never been to the depths of a game in which gear was the measure of your worth, you’re fortunate. GW2 feels like I’ve died and gone to heaven, where the air smells like warm rootbeer and the towels are oh so fluffy in comparison.

I have been because I have played WoW. What you are saying is that WoW is more grindy because the stuff you need (well highest tier stats) is hard to get and in GW2 the stuff you need is easy to get (you don’t need ascended (so you say) and exotics are pretty easy to get).

The problem is that I never feel a need to get highest tier armor (also not in WoW) I do like to get the cosmetic stuff and this game is mainly based around cosmetics so it would be fair to look at that, not at stats. I want to play for that working towards it, and if you want that in GW2 it’s all a matter of grinding gold or if it comes to the LS grinding achievements against time.

In WoW if you wanted a mini (or other cosmetic) you worked toward it by playing the game, doing the dungeon or killing the mob that could drop it.

So having to repeat content to get items is the same in both games, the problem is that in GW2 for almost everything it’s grinding gold or another currency. Pretty much how real-life jobs work.

lordkrall.7241:

Devata.6589:

I did never hear of it and did never see it before. I know now there are multiple games that are / going to use it but I did hear it for the first time with ESO. Anyway, the question was not so much if it existed longer but how it worked in another game.

A good example is DC Universe Online, and there it works quite well.
One can also assume that they worked on the MegaServer in GW2 long before they saw how it worked in ESO, so don’t really see what ESO have to do with anything at all.

Like I said it’s just an example to see if and so how it works in other games.

guilds not getting split up in ESO or DC Universe Online?

Galen Grey.4709:

What I mean to say is at the end of the day there is just content. After that content is consumed I dont think there is much interest in getting back to it.

Problem that stays is WHEN you do it (for the first time). Same for the rewards.

If somebody now comes into the game he might hear about an events we did related to the nightmare tower but he is not able to do that anymore… also not for a first time.

He might see a skin and ask, where did you get that? To then get the answer that it’s not available anymore.

Now imagine the stuff was permanent he could do that event or could start working towards that rewards. (of course events needed to be designed to be less of zerg content but thats only a positive imho)

Then only remove the fact that working towards rewards is now almost always a gold-grind (in LS that was better as some items where not, problem there was that it was time-limited). And many people can still have many stuff to do or to work towards.

That would be way much more fun then the answer, nope sorry can’t do / get that anymore. Even for the people that play the content because they now need to do it our miss out in it forever and I very much dislike that feeling.

Galen Grey.4709:

Teqault rising and TA were both permanent events so their changes remain

I could not consider that real LS patches and while Anet said them-self that it was linked to the LS they did release it different if you remember. They also had SAB then and said they had a break to work on some stuff. But (once again with the exception of the few things that where temporary) that was one of the better patches we did see. Much like the current feature patch the the Lost shores.

Galen Grey.4709:

The tower of nightmare saga had the toxic alliance formation and they still persist and attach not to mention the corruption they brought to kessex hills resulted in new dynamic events that remain to this day

Those few dynamic events is all that is left to do. Once again by far most stuff to do, events rewards all are gone. You can’t go into the tower you can’t play any of that content. And yes story-wise that make sense but Anet makes the story and they can easily also make a story where everything to do is after the event.
It’s like LA, yeah the map changed but everything to do is gone.

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats not counting the cosmetic changes such as new maps like cragstead and the hatchery or the redesign of Southsun, kessex hills and LA

No I’m indeed not counting cosmetic changes because that is not something to do. Make an event, and a cosmetic change may accuse of it but then link content to do on that what is left behind, not on the event itself that will be gone.

Galen Grey.4709:

Going with your swimming pool analogy, the LS itself was us building the swimming pool but once complete we cannot go back and rebuild the swimming pool because for once we have one of the very few mmos that has a meaningful passage of time unlike most MMOs where the world would always be in a state where the swimming pool hasnt been build (as in you never see the swimming pool build) you’re just told that the swimming pool was built but visually nothing really changes. In Gw2 you build the swimming pool see it happening while its happening and once complete the swimming pool is there and future content might also build up on it.

Indeed we are building the swimming-pool you are correct. That was exactly what I was saying. And then that is over and that’s it.

What I say is, we should see the swimming pool getting build and might even be a little involved with it but no events with achievements and rewards, nothing of that. And then when it is build after the event our playable events achievements and rewards should be being able to swim there. That is what would be much better.

It’s nice that we see it being build or help to build it (still we can;t change the outcome) and thats positive but I would still prefer to have the stuff to do what is left behind. Not that being part of the temporary building phase.

My swimming-pool example is because Anet always uses the fact that it’s dynamic as excuse for stuff being temporary and I show that in a temporary world a lot of the stuff to do is not for a short period. Only a few things are.

Galen Grey.4709:

Devata.6589:

Behellagh.1468:

~

~
We all live in a dynamic world. At some day they might start building a swimming-pool in the area. That is an ‘event’, I see them deciding to build it, I see them building it and so I see the world change but I don’t participate in it, there is no reward for me. Then when it’s there I can go there to swim, learn stuff do stuff for years to come. If that is what I like to do.

Thats how the LS should have been. ~

Isnt that exactly what they did?

No it is the opposite of what they did with most LS.

99% off all events, rewards and achivements where link to the event not to what was left behind. See LA.

Galen Grey.4709:

lost shore release left dynamic events related to the discovery of southsun
the secret of southsun had the refugees and canach steer up the karka and we’re left with new dynamic events related to that

While still not perfect because there where still events and rewards linked to the event that is gone and so can’t be done, yes mainly lost shore was the best version. There where not a lot of achievements / rewards for the event. It was great to be there when the karka attacked LA and when we went to the island. Not sure why they haven’t done that against that was awesome and there where no rewards or achievements or any of that linked to it. Then when it was over we where left with permanent content, the island. Later they did add some stuff do to there of what most is still there while that time there was also a lot stuff temporary. But yes that was the best example and except for the achievements and rewards and so on that where temporary that was the best example of how it should have been.

Galen Grey.4709:

sky pirates had the aether blades settle in two complexes on of which is left behind a jp and the other became a fractal

The puzzle is still there but by far most of the stuff to do is all gone. Achievements where all temporary and so where the rewards. That fractal they put in after getting a lot of complains that it was temporary and still now it is back you can’t get the rewards you got there during the event (what was part of the fun of the dungeon). So no it’s not what we or should I say I want. It was an attempt to put something in permanent but by far most is taken out, it was temporary the event that had everyting linked to it. They could have easily made a story where the achievements rewards and dungeons including the rewards where what was left after the event.

Galen Grey.4709:

Queen jubilee left behind the pavilion (granted nothing is going on there but they did say the plan to reuse it for future content)

If I’m correct thats an festival we will see back again. It’s ok if that go’s and comes back a year later. However even there we did see some stuff go. Halloween did bring back many things but not all. We will need to see if this year everything will be back. I think it will be smaller and so stuff will be gone because next time it’s a year later so you can have a party but it’s not a jubilee anymore.

Galen Grey.4709:

clockwork chaos had scarlet jump start the clockwork invasions which kept on happening after the event

Yeah again one element that was left behind (and is gone now I think) but one again, most stuff to do and achievements to get and rewards to get where gone after it.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Even if it kills me to say so, I’d prefer to wait till the game’s 2 years before any update if it means quality. A real story for example, something interesting to do, not “kill undead, rinse, repeat” or “spam 1 to kill the legendary boss in a new event”…

I guess most of you wouldn’t mind if at least ANet gave us a teaser, a statement to speculate about, etc. We can all understand that they are busy with the Chinese release, yet we have nothing to wait for… The only thing that keeps my hopes up high is private email with Ree Soesbee where I questionned her about Sea of Sorrows, and she said, regarding Livia (and therefore Shining Blade, White Mantle, blah blah), that all spoilers she was allowed to give was already in SoS. I assume that we will indeed someday find Livia and the White Mantle as stated in-game.

Also, she stated that they had ideas for stories in Elona, but she couldn’t say how they were going to touch on those lands. Also, when I asked about “a new profession on an hypothetical new continent”, she stated bluntly “can’t answer that”.

Maybe it’s a red herring, maybe it’s a hint that something huge will come: after all, she is in charge of the backstory of the game… So yeah, I still (manage to) have faith in the developers, and I’m eagerly waiting for an announcement, even if it has me wait a couple more months, as long as it’s worth the wait…

Colin Johnson did say that professions where the last on there list and they where not working on that for now at all. That is the one thing he was clear about. The video where he says it is still available but I don’t have a link for you, you will need to do some searching if you don’t believe me.

So maps, classes and much more you can expect but forget about profession for a long time to come. Maybe she mend she could not say anything about it because there was nothing to say about?

Lamir.6702:

The megaserver has a very negative impact on the dungeon CoE. This dungeon is in Mount Maelstrom, which happens to also be the map where two megaserver bosses are located (megadestroyer and Mark II Inquest Golem). As a result, I’ve constantly been uncontesting CoE, go in to do a path only to be thrown out in a different megaserver shard where the dungeon is contested from the very beginning. This is so incredibly unfair, unreasonable, and there’s nothing you can really do about it because guesting is pointless and you have no control over getting back to the map you actually uncontested the dungeon on. We need a solution for this please…posting because it’s happened daily for the past week and is a majorly unnecessary time sink.

What you can do is that if you or one of your party-members has an extra account then use that to find a map where you can access. Once in leave him there. He will then be the taxi for everybody. Also when you are in a dungeon and you get DC you might have a hard time getting back I think (not 100% sure) also then that character who is still standing there can be the taxi.

lordkrall.7241:

Devata.6589:

I wonder is there is anybody here who also plays ESO?

Eso was the first to introduce this mega-server like system and when they did I already had my doubts with it expecting the type of problems we now see in GW2.

If anybody here is playing ESO can he tell us if similar problems (guilds not being together and so on) also happen in ESO? I can;t see how they would not but maybe they found a solution.

ESO was far from the first to introduce Mega-Servers.
They have existed for YEARS.

I did never hear of it and did never see it before. I know now there are multiple games that are / going to use it but I did hear it for the first time with ESO. Anyway, the question was not so much if it existed longer but how it worked in another game.

Behellagh.1468:

ANet decided that the world of Tyria is dynamic. Stuff happens and then it’s over. There may be stuff left over but the events that led to the creation of that stuff is now in the past. I just don’t understand why players can’t grasp that and accept it’s gone.

It’s like your first kiss or holding your first born for the very first time. The event is ephemeral, you can never every relive it.

Oow we grasp that. The problem is that the playable content should be linked to the stuff that is left behind after the event, not to the event itself that will be gone.

We all live in a dynamic world. At some day they might start building a swimming-pool in the area. That is an ‘event’, I see them deciding to build it, I see them building it and so I see the world change but I don’t participate in it, there is no reward for me. Then when it’s there I can go there to swim, learn stuff do stuff for years to come. If that is what I like to do.

Thats how the LS should have been. An event that you see happen and then what is left because of it, that new content has achievements, rewards and so on linked to it and can be done pretty much forever.

(You could argue you would then have less influence in it but we all know we have no influence it it anyway. We have been fighting Scarlet for over a year but if the developers decide LA would be destroyed that is what is going to happen.)

If that was the case people would be complaining far less about the LS itself. I still would prefer expansions, simply because they could then generate income with expansions in stead of with the cash-shop so we could see many of the items now related to the cash-shop be put ingame. (mini’s, barber and so on). But I would then be more happy with the LS. Having temporary available achievements and rewards is just not fun because it’s all an ‘do it now or miss out on it forever’.

I wonder is there is anybody here who also plays ESO?

Eso was the first to introduce this mega-server like system and when they did I already had my doubts with it expecting the type of problems we now see in GW2.

If anybody here is playing ESO can he tell us if similar problems (guilds not being together and so on) also happen in ESO? I can;t see how they would not but maybe they found a solution.

maddoctor.2738:

NewTrain.7549:

Lankybrit.4598:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Look up what WoW added between release and the first expansion. Just google it. There is a wiki.

Compare it to GW2, than you might understand why people are upset.

Look up how much you had to pay to play WoW between release and the first expansion, and you’ll understand why you shouldn’t be upset.

So you’re saying that GW2 will always have inferior content delivery because of its B2P/gem store business model?

Look at how much content you got over the previous months (yes the temporary content) that kept you busy playing. Something new and fresh to do every 2 weeks while in an “expansion” system you would have to wait and wait for something new to come out.

The LS system has its own benefits, especially an LS system that is updated as quickly as the system in Guild Wars 2, and the main benefit is keeping current/active players busy with something new, something expansions are very bad at providing. After the first few weeks after an expansion is released, everyone either returns to their previous farming spot, they get some new farming spots, or combine the two, the rest of the expansion content is nearly abandoned, as much as the content of the main game after some weeks pass.

With the LS you don’t have that, as you get something new on each release. The main problem with the LS system of course is that players who stopped playing will return and find very few new things.

A mix of LS and expansion content would be the best of both worlds. OR a way to somehow replay some of the LS content at a later time, much like any famous TV show, once the episode passes you can’t rewatch it whenver you like, however most good shows always get broatcasted again at a later time.

Yeah after having seen the LS I would prefer the expansion way by far. In fact I look up to the upcoming LS. All the temporary stuff you might feel you need to do because else you miss out on it. Then it’s not fun anymore.

NewTrain.7549:

Lankybrit.4598:

NewTrain.7549:

Lankybrit.4598:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Look up what WoW added between release and the first expansion. Just google it. There is a wiki.

Compare it to GW2, than you might understand why people are upset.

Look up how much you had to pay to play WoW between release and the first expansion, and you’ll understand why you shouldn’t be upset.

So you’re saying that GW2 will always have inferior content delivery because of its B2P/gem store business model?

Absolutely, compared to WoW. And you know WoW has their own ‘Gem’ Store as well as a subscription, right?

I was just curious because quite a few people are saying things like “the living story provides expansion quality content for free”. I just wanted to make sure you recognized that GW2’s living story is worth exactly what you paid for it…very little to nothing. If you’re willing to accept that, fine. I guess some people were hoping (largely because ANet said so) that Living Story content would be high quality and akin to a paid expansion.

Personally I was hoping they would sell expansions.. sooner then other games because they advertised the game a B2P (and there name with using a good B2P model for GW1) so I figured they needed to make money with expansion sales.

However they went for the cash-shop focus (like any F2P game out there), what totally fits the LS but does not fit the expansions (ant it’s content) many people would like to have.

The conclusion to this thread.. They all did not come. But who knows, ever.

Then again, that is what I said in this thread half a year ago. A profession is last on there list… there words, not mine.

Draknar.5748:

I think we should all agree that all games have a grind. Be it grinding for crafting, money, leveling, killing X monsters, what have you. Skyrim? A grind. Final Fantasy games? A grind. Infamous/Dark Souls/GTA/etc? A grind. Civilization/any competitive RTS? A grind. Any fighting game? A grind. Racing games? A grind. Any FPS? A grind. They all have grinds. That’s how they keep you playing a game for longer than one hour.

The only difference is personal tolerance to grinding. Some folks are sensitive to it, some folks are not. It’s clear by the sheer polarization on these forums. How else can you explain one person saying GW2 is the most grindy game they’ve ever played and another saying it is the least grindy game they’ve ever played. Different strokes, people. Different strokes. No point in arguing.

Ok lets say it different then.

This game is extremely grindy when it comes to grinding gold to get most items you might like to have. And if it’s not grinding gold then it’s grinding achievements against the time.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Zenyatoo.4059:

Now, the cost for these things is different. Factions cost what, $60? And GW2 is technically free forever.

To be honest, I wouldn’t mind paying for an expansion… If it’s worth it!

-If we get the same amount of content as in Factions, it’s ok to pay $60.
-If it’s to get the same amount of content as GW2 on launch (or just some new zones as they don’t seem to want to open new continents yet), $30 will be more than enough.

But again, 28 days left before the end of WvW S2 and North America LT. Maybe they’ll announce something that will make out impatience explode, or they will lose some bored players if nothing considerable is planned… :/

There is always something to wait for. After those 28 days you might wait for the first LS S2 patch. And we will be getting new stuff. A few maps for sure. But the question is what you want overall. Just expansions to work towards or waiting for the next patch.

Personally I noticed that I enjoy this game the most in the LS breaks.
First break was with SAB 1 (what was not really a LS patch) and I had then lots of fun. That’s maybe not 100% fear because SAB was just fun so lets forget that break. Second break was when they updated Tequatl and so on. It was at the same time as SAB 2. The 3th break was before the last few LS patches. There was not much to do but it felt oke and now there is a break. Again still not much to do but I have fun, log in do a JP, maybe level a level and log out. I miss content like hunting down mini’s but overall it’s ok.

However when there are LS patches you feel you have to complete that stuff because else you miss out on it. I already reduced the ‘have to’ for myself to only getting the items I might really want but still there is some form of pressure and as soon as you ‘have’ (or feel you have to do because of time-pressure) to do something it’s not fun any-more.

So personally I am loot looking towards possible upcoming patches. The longer it takes for LS patches to start rolling in again, the better. I do look forward to an expansions but you can wonder if they will ever come now they use the cash-shop to generate income.

Hekdragoon.1972:

Why would they add more content if when they add it people don’t play it (TA Aether) and many others seem happy doing the same thing over and over (Queensdale Champ train), it’s easier for them to focus on the gemstore plus people keep buying things so they don’t have a real problem, people who want new content (a minority) have it.

I would like new content too, but if we don’t vote with our wallets they won’t do a kitten.

I did vote with my wallet. Did buy a collectors edition to show.. here that’s what we want. And then did not buy a single gem showing ’ this is what I don’t want’.

Sadly enough there for now seem to be many people buying gems and so support the downfall of this game. You want expansions? Buy no gems.

Hekdragoon is correct.

Well the biggest problem I have with it is not just the lack of content it’s that this game was supposed to be B2P. So I expected it to mainly make money with game and expansions sales.

In order to do that you will need to release expansions more regular then games that for example make money with a cash-shop or subscription.

Sadly enough GW2 turned to generating income mainly with the cash-shop (making you wonder why you had to pay money for it in the first place).

So I would like to see them selling more expansions, so that would be there main source of income, and we would not have a game negatively effectedby a cash-shop focus.

And just to get your facts strait. Wow’s first expansions was released about 2 years later.. two years and 1,5 month to be exact. WotlK released 2 years after that (2 years – 1,5 month). Cata released 2 years after that and MoP released 2 years after that. Nice try but wiki has the answer.

Anyway, like I said this is a B2P game so I wanted an expansions sooner as that should be there main source of income so we did not need income based on the cash-shop. Sadly enough they throw that away and it’s now just a cash-shop focused game where expansions are not the main concern as it’s not a real source of income for them.

Wasbunny.6531:

Devata.6589:

“Anything purchasable by in-game gold/gems can be ruled out since gold can be obtained through literally any activity in the game, including exchanging real life cash for gold/gems. “

Lol that is EXACTLY the part that makes this game so much of a grind. It’s grind for gold, grind for gold and more grind for gold to get all your items.

But then again, you obviously have a very different definition of grind then I do. Doing specific content multiple times to get an item is farming, not grinding.

Having contact lock behind something they usually call tier grind or or type of locked content (locked behind stats or something else). Not just ‘grind’. Then again pretty much every mmo has that including GW2. You can’t do Arah with a lvl 1 character. That is less in Gw2 then in most games but it’s also in GW2.

Not sure how much sense this makes, at least about gold=grind. I guess if the definition of ‘grind’ is: Anything with a cost in either currency, time or both.

Of course then every game from Skyrim to GW2 would be considered ‘grindy’ so an answer to the OP’s original question would be impossible.

Here’s a real life (in-game) example of what I mean. True story, just happened.

I want to buy some new skins to unlock so I need some gold. I just found a recipe for food that sells pretty well on the TP but requires a couple ingredients that I don’t have enough of. I see I can get these from various mobs and harvesting nodes in at least 4 maps. So I set off on my little self imposed adventure to collect what I need, whistling while I do. The moment I get bored (whistling stops) I immediately move on to something else that I enjoy in the game (whistling resumes).

I just find it impossible to label my little self imposed goal that took me on a little adventure through Tyria as a dreaded ‘grind’. I enjoyed it, it was fun and totally of my making.

In my mind I haven’t ‘grinded’ once in this game and have all 8 80’s in all exotics, two of which have full ascended everything. If playing the game just feels like an agonizing ‘grind’ to get (insert whatever) then I have to say this game might not be a good fit overall.

Let me give you my example then.
Lets say I want to collect mini. Something I did in most other games. I not only like the mini’s but also the hunt for them. They usually send me all over the world doing specific content for every mini.

Now GW2. Well 99% you can only buy so your way to get the first mini s grinding gold. Getting the second one? Just grind some gold. 3th one? Grind some gold.

Your example would work for a few cheap mini’s. In most games those exist, usually vendors have them. So while you play (for those hard to get mini’s) you earn some gold and buy the cheap ones at a vendor. Here is almost all grinding gold, the kittenes and the easy ones. Expensive mini’s cost a lot of gold, not something you just earn easily you really need to grind for it. Of course there is more you want, not only that one expensive mini, there are more mini;s. Maybe you also want a legendary weapon, also that is mainly grinding gold. You might also dyes, more gold, or some cool skin. So just saving up some money is not the solution here. And if it’s not a gold grind then it’s completing achievements against the time in temporary content.

Another problem is that is also devaluations the item from a game-play viewpoint. An mini that drops from a specific place is less likely to drop for somebody who was not specially working towards it. (it can help, but is much less likely). So the TP will be less flooded with them and so having them is much more of a reward for doing that specific dungeon / collecting that specific item. It also adds an extra rush to that content (will it drop). Just doing it for money is boring to me. Doing what I likes besides collecting those things.. Well JP’s but they don’t earn me the money I would need to buy those special mini’s.

I use the mini example but you can replace that with many other items.

-

The whole ‘is not required’ is an invalid argument. The whole game is optional so nothing is ’ required’. One might be more interested in stats another in dyes.. and there are more then 1 dye. Your example is about one item. Yes getting that one item is not a problem, the problem is that almost everything cost gold. Getting many of them requires the gold grind. Besides, is it really so strange that I want to play directly for an item in stead of make money to buy it. It’s supposed to be a game not a job. I dropped all my goals for getting those collections and achievements and skins and (well everything that usually drives me in these games) because it felled to much like a job.

No I only pay real money for a real expansion.

About the wardrobe being overrated because it’s just for skins.
Well for many people the game is (RPG MMO’s in general) are mainly about skins and related fluff (mini’s, mounts and so on).

That is also why in a game like this monetizing cosmetics is just as bad as monetizing stats.
So if you just care for stats and killing then yes the wardrobe system is overrated. Else it’s a nice easy system.

Personally if it is about just killing I prefer FPS games because there it is mainly about skill, not about the best stats.

Wasbunny.6531:

Every time one of threads surfaces it’s the same story, the word ‘grind’ is thrown around without any time taken to define what that means.

The first step in qualifying if something meets the definition of ‘grindy’ is to define your terms. So step 1: define your terms.

This is how I’d define ‘grind’ in an mmo context:

Grind: Having limited options of attaining something that is required in order to participate in a particular part of the game. The player is thus forced to do a specific repetitive task in order to have access to other parts of the game.

Grind does not simply mean anything with a cost in either time or gold.

So let’s look at what could fall into the ‘grind’ category in GW2. Anything purchasable by in-game gold/gems can be ruled out since gold can be obtained through literally any activity in the game, including exchanging real life cash for gold/gems.

So we are left with only one thing that could potentially fall under the definition of ‘grind’; ascended gear, which can’t be 100% obtained through in-game currency. Some required components for crafting ascended gear cannot be traded so can’t simply be bought using gold. These ascended materials are however available in every game type, from jumping puzzle chests to WvW, spvp, dungeons etc. So definitely does not meet the definition of ‘limited’.

There is no content in the game that requires ascended gear. The one exception to this is high level fractals, due to AR infusions only available in ascended armor. High level fractals requiring ascended armor is the closest thing to the definition of ‘grind’ so far, since it is practically a requirement to have for the agony resistance alone.

The ascended armor requirement for playing higher level fractals does not meet the other part of the definition of ‘grind’ however since the methods of obtaining the gear is virtually unlimited, and are often gathered from simply doing the actual lower level fractals.

So in answer to the OPs original question if GW2 is the most ‘grindy’ game ever, the answer by this definition is no. In my experience with mmos it’s actually the least ‘grindy’ game I’ve ever played.

“Anything purchasable by in-game gold/gems can be ruled out since gold can be obtained through literally any activity in the game, including exchanging real life cash for gold/gems. “

Lol that is EXACTLY the part that makes this game so much of a grind. It’s grind for gold, grind for gold and more grind for gold to get all your items.

But then again, you obviously have a very different definition of grind then I do. Doing specific content multiple times to get an item is farming, not grinding.

Having content locked behind something they usually call tier grind or type of locked content (locked behind stats or something else). Not just ‘grind’. Then again pretty much every mmo has that including GW2. You can’t do Arah with a lvl 1 character. That is less in Gw2 then in most games but it’s also in GW2.

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

carabidus.6214:

Give ESO a try and you’ll know the true meaning of grindfest. With no TP and time gates on “researching” traits for gear, it’s a hot mess and I regret every penny I spent on the game.

Time gated stuff is indeed also very bad, just like temporary (a form, maybe the worst form of time-gated) but it’s something else as grind.

Temporary also means that there going to be more replacing it i am not sure if that is worst and not sure how that related to “grind.”

You need to do stuff a limited time or lose forever. That’s why it’s worse. Besides, non-temporary would not mean there would not be new content.

Anyway, my comment was exactly to say that time-gated content (like temporary content) is not related to grind.

Yes it dose mean new content becase the way temporary things works is that it free up spaces for a game to keep adding in new things as old things are switched out. At a point mmorpgs become to big for ppl to run on pc. Yes you can keep added things in that ppl do for a month and then stop doing it after they get what they want but what the point of that content if no one is doing it any more?

It dose not changes how much work you need to do to get something you want even if there is a set time if any thing it will keep things less grindy because the game makers are saying you have a set time to do this in so we are going to make it much less time consuming vs adding in something that will be there forever where the game makers can say well we can make it super hard to do this and take a lot of time because we need this to pad our game.

You don’t have to worry about space on the PC. Storage is the least expensive and most people have space enough. And even if they did not it’s a very easy and cheap upgrade.

Less people might do it but for sure not nobody. With that idea you could just as well remove all starter zones as soon as most people get past that.

Also the time-restrain per item might be shorter because you also have a shorter time but you do have to do it in that time and 2 weeks later there is new stuff you need to do if you don’t want to miss out on it forever and two weeks later again and again and again.

Anyway, my comment was there to say it was not related to grind and then you reacted on that and now we are talking about temporary content. I have no problem talking more with you about that subject but not in this thread.

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

carabidus.6214:

Give ESO a try and you’ll know the true meaning of grindfest. With no TP and time gates on “researching” traits for gear, it’s a hot mess and I regret every penny I spent on the game.

Time gated stuff is indeed also very bad, just like temporary (a form, maybe the worst form of time-gated) but it’s something else as grind.

Temporary also means that there going to be more replacing it i am not sure if that is worst and not sure how that related to “grind.”

You need to do stuff within a limited time or lose it forever. That’s why it’s worse. Besides, non-temporary would not mean there would not be new content.

Anyway, my comment was exactly to say that time-gated content (like temporary content) is not related to grind.

carabidus.6214:

Give ESO a try and you’ll know the true meaning of grindfest. With no TP and time gates on “researching” traits for gear, it’s a hot mess and I regret every penny I spent on the game.

Time gated stuff is indeed also very bad, just like temporary (a form, maybe the worst form of time-gated) but it’s something else as grind.

Nightshade.5924:

Read a number of posts. If any of you want to experience grind, which GW 2 eminently is NOT, go play STO, NW or CO all PW games. WoW is the king of grind, I’ve got friends who play it and that I convinced to try GW 2. They play a lot more GW 2 now for some reason. Or if you’ve been around a while, City of Heroes got grindy at endgame when they created that whole new above 50 system. Only ever got a couple of lvls for one toon myself, it was such a pain.

Many people here have said correctly, IMHO, that the only “grind” is to make Legendaries and Ascended. Pretty much true. Especially since the devs have never allowed the core ascended mat’ls to be bought, sold or traded. If you’re a crafter trying to get Grandmaster in all six current disciplines, you’re gonna spend some serious time in WvW etc. to get Bloodstone etc.

But as is also true, and many people have also pointed out, this is NOT NECESSARY TO PLAY THE GAME. All of my three main toons run around w/ exotic gear and a few ascended trinkets I bought off the vendors. I have a blast, I play PvE, PvP, and WvW all and enjoy. I should have cut the quote, but as someone here said, you should just let a Legendary happen. Unless the devs finally let Grandmasters craft Precursors, that’s the smart way to play.

Lets take your WoW example simply because I did not play all of your other examples and most people are known with there system.

Now lets say I want to hunt down 2 specific mini’s. In WoW I might need to do one dungeon multiple time for one dungeon and for another I need to do a quest. Drop-change from the dungeon is 1/10 (one again just for the sake of argument) and a run takes you 1 hour. So on average you should have it around 5 hours but at least in 10.

Now Gw2. You want two specific mini’s. One is very rare, another is not. You can not really hunt it down because it does not drop in the world or does not drop in a specific place. So you grind gold. Lets say it cost between 5 and 10 gold and you can earn 1 gold per hour (also on average because drops can be better and worse) by champ-farming (what is gold grinding). In time it would take me about the same time to get the two mini’s.

And while this are just examples I think looking at mini’s overall time consumes is similar. There are many very cheap mini’s in GW2 and so there are in WoW. Difference is that the cheap once in WoW are mainly sold by vendors. However there are also very expensive mini’s in GW2 and there are very hard to get mini’s in WoW.

The difference is the way you get them, not the time.

In WoW you are playing specific content to get your item, needing to do different types of content to get it. That is also part of the fun of redoing that content. Every time the rush of “ will it drop”.

In GW2 everything is currency based so you are grinding currency (mainly gold) for everything you need.

That is why GW2 is so much of a grind. It’s grind for everything. WoW, just like any mmo does require a lot of farming but way less grind.. maybe only for the top tier stuff, not sure never been doing that as that is not required.. for my gameplay.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Ashen.2907:

Beldin.5498:

Then it will take you maybe 20 or 50 years in PWI to level to 105.

I doubt it. If it is attainable through game play then I expect I would get it in a time frame similar to others’ experiences. If it requires crafting then I would never get it.

In order to get a full set of ascended gear I am likely to need several years worth of appropriate kill rewards. Sure I could get lucky and get the drops one after another in a single day of play, but the odds are very much stacked against that.

Are you sure? I havent played that game so I dunno…
I don’t like the idéa that I have to craft ascended iether but I would rather do that then fighting the same enemies over and over and over again to level up my character. But as you are able to obtain Ascended via drops you are likely to get a full set ascended in less than 5 years if you just play the game.

Skan.5301:

ObsidianSaint.1079:

Not grindy at all, you are creating your own grind. I play to have fun and if I happen to have the materials needed for something I craft it…

What do you, personally, do while you’re ‘playing to have fun’?

That is a hard question to answer and it wont do much different to aswer since we all have different tastes. But if you had asked me:
- I Explore the world with my alts together with friends and guild.
- I do Guild Missions.
- I help friends and Guild with stuff they need help with.
- I do Dungeons, mostly with my friends who only play on weekends.
- I try to figure out new build for PvP, WvW, PvE and Dungeons.
- I try to find nice deals on TP to earn gold.
- Most of all I play the Living Story when there is one.
- I do sPvP.
- I do WvW with my Guild.

(Most of the stuff here is not super-fun doing for yourself but I realy enjoy playing with friends and Guild. It is an MMO after all).

There has been a little less playtime for me in Guild Wars 2 now due to absence of Living World, but whenever my friends are playing or my Guild is doing something fun I am more or less always online. sPvP is something I do a little everyday though I am just a Hotjoin-hero.

—
Still nothing you have to do but…
I have been thinking. This game may be grindy afterall…
I mean almost every Living Story part has been about doing the events over and over again to get the neat new stuff that is hidden inside the corpses :P

But on the other hand in my opinion the Grinding LS is realy fun and it is not forever.

“But on the other hand in my opinion the Grinding LS is realy fun and it is not forever.”
No it’s against the time. Isn’t that even worse?

The LS does have more specific rewards from an event or an boss (mostly achievements with is a little less, but ok) and I do like that. I want to see that more in this game. But then the LS makes it temporary making it (for me) even worse. It’s a grind against time. And it does keep repeating, LS after LS after LS.

RicardoLans.7658:

Serious because of the megaserver it is more fun for PvE players to play world bosses etc because every server gets into the same instance untill its full.

For guilds yes it takes more organization and teamwork to get all members in the same instance but to me that is just wrong. Why would you punish guilds and their members for being a guild and want to do guild related stuff?
The organization and teamwork you are talking about is not what guilds want to spend time in. They just want to start guild missions and do them, no matter which guild mission they do, they always should be in the same instance. Also if a guild wants to kill a world boss or just want to run somewhere together as a guild then by all means make that possible. Even if that means ANet’s megaserver needs to create a new instance for this guild only then by God do it, this is just an enhancement for PvE players without guilds running guild missions or doing guild related stuff.
Don’t do it like it is now with hoping someone hits a overflow and all guild members need to taxi in… That is the worst possible thing ever introduced.

My guild used to do temple runs on a night. But due to the megaserver it is killed because of all servers coming into our usual temple run maps and now we had to decide to cancel our temple run because of the megaserver. So ANet thank you for that one.

“The organization and teamwork you are talking about is not what guilds want to spend time in.”
I think that was sarcasm.

sundown.5974:

Got great idea from Fatelessguy.3095
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/So-raids

If gw2 had raid the first question would be wtf would the reward be. Cant be a new tier of gear because people will get mad. So it would end up being some type of skin.

The one update we all want to see is a way to get a precursor that not rng base. so
what if they added raids each precursor get a raids you would get mats that can only be drop from that raid or some type of token that can be use to buy the precursor would take around 12 weeks to complete the precursor. This would added raid content to gw2 and add a way to get a precursor that take time and is not rng base. on top of this system they would be able to add legendary armor

Special skins, toys, mini, mount, home-instance stuff, guild-related (guild hall) stuff.

As long as it are specific drops. No more “you have a bigger chance to get better drops.. that can drop everywhere in the world and you make some gold”, then sell what you get to buy what you want. That is boring.

We need more guild and organized teamwork content.

In a way this is an extension of this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-System-Improvements-Suggestions/first#post3943131

What this games misses a lot (and the problems with grouped content and mega-servers has made that even more apparent to me) is more content for organised teamwork content.

Stuff that you can work towards with a medium side group or guild.
Think of dungeons for 15 / 30 people and then not.. well you need 30 people and that’s it (much like the 5 man dungeons of now). No you need coordination of those 15 / 30 people. You need to talk about a tactic before entering a room or distributing your people over the area. But it should be more then just killing one boss.

But also guild vs guild type missions.. I say missions, so not just GvG killing. (Think Wolfenstein ET sort of mission, defence alliance and so on) Those missions can then maybe help a guild to work towards building a guild hall so there is also stuff to work towards to together.

mooty.4560:

Ascended gear is fairly optional unless you want the best possible stats and/or to do high level fractals. GW2 is still primarily about cosmetics, like it’s predecessor. You can grind if you want to, but you don’t have to.

Except if those cosmetics are your goals in the game, then grinding (or buying, but that not playing) is pretty much your only option. Obviously it depends on your personal game-play preference.

People who keep defending there is no grind (or not a lot) mainly point to stats (because according to them cosmetics are optional, funny for me stats are optional) but it’s an MMORPG that is in fact focusing mainly on cosmetics and fluff. So they very much are part of the game-play for many people.