Guild Wars 2

Seeing how this thread keeps going on.
Like I said before I never take food because I consider it cheating or mayby cheap is even a better word. You go to an NPC, buy some food eat it and for x more minutes you have more power or more …. that is imho just a silly mechanism and has nothing to do with skill.

However I do like other ‘funny’ abilities. Lets say a food would let you jump higher (or non-usefull things like getting drunk and getting hearts). But also the special items you can use can be fun and usefull. Think of a wooden plank and so on, that causes for some interesting game-play (don’t so much like the seed pot because thats a ranger thing, by adding it as normal item it obsoletes the ranger pig ability). However Anet seems to have a total different vision about this seeing how they disabled many of those consumables in WvW but most consumables that still give you a boost do work.

That being said, about learning people things. I think the text on top of an enemy should be given in another way. That is of course already the case, you should be able to see him do it, but with all the effects going on you can’t see it very good and when you are in a zerg situation it’s even worse. So try to make those attacks more clear without those text.. maybe even remove that text so people can only find it out by looking at what he does.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

You get what you pay for, so enjoy your “living story”.

I did pay the game (B2P). I even paid extra bugs supporting the B2P idea buying the CE. Then I did not buy any gems and so not supporting the LS and a cash-shop focused game. Now I am waiting to pay for an expansion, in the line with my last payment.

So if I would get what I pay for I would get an expansion.

Just saying.

Personally I think they would be able to deliver things like professions, zones and just permanent content but there are a few problems.

People have asked for that pretty much from the beginning of Season 1. Anet then promised we could expect such content. Now we are at the end of season 1 and the conclusion is we did not get that type of content.

So they did get there change to do it but they didn’t. You can’t then just expect people to wait to see of they might fulfill there promise in season 2.

Another problem is that releasing that sort of content in the LS in stead of an expansion also means they will be forces to go on generating money with the cash-shop. With expansions they could switch to generating money that way.

The content itself is also influenced by that focus. Like many cosmetic things that could offer game-play are now in the cash-shop and so do not provide any fun playable content.. See my last comment in the original thread for more details about that.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-must-people-keep-shouting-expansion/page/2#post3754803

Why must people keep shouting expansion?

Continuation of this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-must-people-keep-shouting-expansion/page/3#post3754932

Somebody did close it with the message we could open a new topic.

It was also asked to mention GW2 more then other games. In the last thread there where just being made some comparisons but anyway make sure to mention GW2 more.

Also do not try to not leave any inflammatory commentary. I did not find any inflammatory commentary in the last thread but if you know what they are talking about.. don’t do that here.

So the question was, why do people want an expansion?

I would suggest going to that first thread before leaving a comment.

Onisuo.8607:

Burnham.2613:

How is it a “new” low when people have been doing it pretty much since release?

Maybe fewer players were doing it in the past but as of recent, there’s droves of players doing such. Guildmates and friends are all in a craze but I did not know Anet gave the “pass” for this cheesy activity. It’s not a complaint though it just reminds me of one of the cons of free to play games. Supporters carry the load while moochers come up with new ways to eat for free.

Well problem was that this game was released as B2P game. Now gem buyers helped turn this game into some cash-shop focus game (or are you name it F2P game) with all the negative stuff that come with it.. you know like not having those items in the world but in a cash-shop or behind a boring grind.

You might see the buyers as supporters but to me they are more destroyers. You want to support, buy an expansion. There might have been one if they did not get enough gem-sales.

mtpelion.4562:

Black Lion Keys are 125 gems, or $1.56.

If you can farm 3 keys in an hour, that means you are paying yourself $4.68 per hour. Had you instead worked an hour of overtime at a minimum wage job you would have earned $10.88 for your hour and could have purchased those 3 keys with the same amount of time spent (1 hour) and had $6.20 left over to do anything you wanted with.

If people want to farm the keys, it’s really their loss.

The fact that you compare this game to a job really says it all. And that has everything to do with that cash-shop focus.

Onisuo.8607:

Does not affect me at all(maybe I should have mentioned that in my post) but I would imagine it affects Anet’s bottom line. If more players use this method I’m sure some adjustments will be made. If not, somewhere down the line it will affect me because Anet will make less money. That’s not something I want to happen.

Maybe that is a good thing. It shows them that there are many people who are not willing to pay gems.

And the money they get with gems.. well imo that goes not help you to get a better game, it helps you getting more cash-shop stuff content that is based on the idea “how do we get people to buy gems”. Not good for the quality of the game at all.

And really, farming keys is just as boring as grinding gold and that is now exactly one of those problem with cash-shop focus. Getting your items becomes this sort of boring content. So you just helped to proof why a cash-shop focus results in boring content.

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

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That cool BUT that not most ppl view they want a real reason to do things and skins are not needed so its much harder to get alot ppl to go after hard events for just skins. working on.

We are talking about events that needs 40 ppl if they all wanted skins then in time every one would have that skin there by making the skin cheaper to the player. What then do you beg ppl in /m to run the 40 man raid that no one dose because every one has done it? That the big thing in GW2 every one gets there own loot in WoW every one share the loot so you must run the same event at least 40 times for that group of 40 to get every thing. By the time they all got there loot the next thing is out etc… etc.. that is the treadmill updates of WoW and with out changing GW2 a great deal it will simply not work.

I’m not sure why you keep talking about the raid example. I don’t say they should use raids for this. WoW does not lock everything raids raids and GW2 should also not do that.

About everybody getting the same skin. Well if there would be this one thing to go for everybody did yes but if one skin would require a specific dungeon, one skin would require a specific mob to farm, another skin requires a specific craft on a specific level and so on.

Then not everybody will have the same things because it’s not some generic drops everybody gets but you really are working towards that what you want.

Same could be with gear and stats. Of course there is only one max stat (meaning all those people want the same) so if you go for that then yes those people will all end up with the same stats.

I am talking on the lines that WoW updates that ppl like to call meet where the ones with raids on them.

If you do an even in GW2 every one may get the item they want on the first try that is unlikely but it can happen or happen to different number of ppl each run for the big events if you lose 5 ppl of say your 40 you need to replaces though if you did not get the item or you feel the need to keep rerunning it.

If you play an mmorpg with a super cool skin you will see in time every one get it but if you have a LS or better put persistent world you will see ppl with skins that new players will ask you what is that on your back (South sun back skin i get /w from time to time asking about it) what happens here now this item has made your hero truly unique in GW2. For a mmorpg to do this is an accompaniment like no other it makes the mmorpg feel like its a real world (keep in mind in doing so you have the same problems as you would have in the real world).

What it all comes down to is LS make you as a player make a chose an expansion there is no chose.

I am sorry but I have to disagree and I am somebody who likes to have a unique char as I am more interested in skins (and such) then in stats like I said before.

If something stays available it does not mean everybody will have it. I don’t know every item in WoW but I know there are some mini’s in the game that where there since day one, are still able to get, are very good looking but you only see a few people with them and they will still get people asking (where did you get that).

Same can be true for skins. Like I said, it all depends how you lock it. If there are many skins (so not like the legendary stuff) in the game but they all require a specific ways to get them only the person who really wants it will go for it. That is why it’s rare. Not because it’s temporary.. yeah that might also make it rare.

Yes now in GW2 you might see people with a nice item, you ask them where did you get it they say …… and you can’t get it anymore.

That means 2 things. 1 you are frustrated you can’t get it anymore, 2 you would else maybe go for that item (playing the game.. going to do that route) but now well you don’t… thats now none existing end-content.

It also means something else.. People feel forced to do that temporary content to get those items because else they might miss out on them and then they will never get it. That means it feels like work and it means people will burn out faster. This is then also what I see as the biggest problem with the LS.

At best at some point you might stop caring about it completely (those achievements and rewards). At least it does then not feel like work and won’t burn you out anymore but as you don’t care about it, it also does not offer you good playtime anymore.

Temporary (so unique / rare) content, achievements and rewards people feel required to go for week after week after week after week might be the main problem of the LS.

Gele.2048:

ls is made so they can use the gems selling so they can make money there is nothing evil in that but honestly i dont like anything in the gem store to buy and the ls content is pure junk for me i need new zones and new skills dungeons etc to keep me entertained and pls ill buy gems to support arena net if they give us expansion

Well if they would sell you an expansion you could pay them that way for that content you want.

Thats why I will only pay for an expansions.

I also remember something about you would be able to vote with your wallet so I did, I did buy the game (CE even) then I did not buy any gems but still waiting to be able to vote again for an expansion.
Sadly less and less interest in doing that because of the current state of the game. But I do wonder if there are more people willing to pay expansions / box sales then there are people willing to buy gems.. In a way we of course we already know the answer. Pretty much everybody in this game did buy the game but only a selection of the people did buy gems.

So if anything the votes go foe box-sales but they don’t do anything with those votes. So far for you can vote with your wallet.

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Going for the best gear is indeed an option in WoW. Just as going for the best looking armor, collecting all mini’s, going for the best looking mounts, going for the best looking pets, going for the strongest mini’s (not sure how there pokemon system works but I guess that is an option), maxing out the fun-crafts and so on.

You could do much of the same here but it’s less fun. Partly because it’s all mainly a gold-grind (yeah and that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus). But really ingame there is not much of such things.

So the ideal of just more skins dose to a point make ppl want to do somthing but the NEED to do somthing will get a lot more ppl to do it. Raids are made for a larges number of players that are willing to do them every week as if they where a job of some type you need more then looks to push ppl into these and to push enofe ppl into them too. Most of the time WoW tend to be for both at the same time so you let ppl have there looks and new gear. In GW2 it would be for looks only if they did not treadmill the game and most ppl will ask them self is it worth my time much like high level fractals and most ppl say no and ask for more loot. For GW2 to have updates like WoW as in Raids you would need to add in a good reason to do them and a stronger gear set would be that reason skins will work for some ppl but most ppl would not do them.

For me it would be the other way around. I prefer the skins (and Anet has been focusing on that player-base but then also stated monetizing exactly that part, makes sense in a way but takes away the fun) over the stat but yes it is important that there is a specific way to work towards that.

Raids is one way but there are many. I think that in WoW the highest gear (stats) might require raids but many stuff does not. It’s important that you allow for multiple routes to get the best gear or good looking gear but only have one main route for one specific item (make it not account-bound and you add gold-grind as optional route what is fine). It’s the route (and how fun that is) that keeps people playing imho.

That cool BUT that not most ppl view they want a real reason to do things and skins are not needed so its much harder to get alot ppl to go after hard events for just skins. working on.

We are talking about events that needs 40 ppl if they all wanted skins then in time every one would have that skin there by making the skin cheaper to the player. What then do you beg ppl in /m to run the 40 man raid that no one dose because every one has done it? That the big thing in GW2 every one gets there own loot in WoW every one share the loot so you must run the same event at least 40 times for that group of 40 to get every thing. By the time they all got there loot the next thing is out etc… etc.. that is the treadmill updates of WoW and with out changing GW2 a great deal it will simply not work.

I’m not sure why you keep talking about the raid example. I don’t say they should use raids for this. WoW does not lock everything bahind raids and GW2 should also not do that.

About everybody getting the same skin. Well if there would be this one thing to go for everybody did yes but if one skin would require a specific dungeon, one skin would require a specific mob to farm, another skin requires a specific craft on a specific level and so on.

Then not everybody will have the same things because it’s not some generic drops everybody gets but you really are working towards that what you want.

Same could be with gear and stats. Of course there is only one max stat (meaning all those people want the same) so if you go for that then yes those people will all end up with the same stats.

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

Going for the best gear is indeed an option in WoW. Just as going for the best looking armor, collecting all mini’s, going for the best looking mounts, going for the best looking pets, going for the strongest mini’s (not sure how there pokemon system works but I guess that is an option), maxing out the fun-crafts and so on.

You could do much of the same here but it’s less fun. Partly because it’s all mainly a gold-grind (yeah and that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus). But really ingame there is not much of such things.

So the ideal of just more skins dose to a point make ppl want to do somthing but the NEED to do somthing will get a lot more ppl to do it. Raids are made for a larges number of players that are willing to do them every week as if they where a job of some type you need more then looks to push ppl into these and to push enofe ppl into them too. Most of the time WoW tend to be for both at the same time so you let ppl have there looks and new gear. In GW2 it would be for looks only if they did not treadmill the game and most ppl will ask them self is it worth my time much like high level fractals and most ppl say no and ask for more loot. For GW2 to have updates like WoW as in Raids you would need to add in a good reason to do them and a stronger gear set would be that reason skins will work for some ppl but most ppl would not do them.

For me it would be the other way around. I prefer the skins (and Anet has been focusing on that player-base but then also stated monetizing exactly that part, makes sense in a way but takes away the fun) over the stats but yes it is important that there is a specific way to work towards that.

Raids is one way but there are many. I think that in WoW the highest gear (stats) might require raids but many stuff does not. It’s important that you allow for multiple routes to get the best gear or good looking gear (and so on) but only have one main route for one specific item (make it not account-bound and you add gold-grind as optional route what is fine as extra option). It’s the route (and how fun that is) that keeps people playing imho.

The gold-grind and LS route seems to be a route many people (including me) do not like.

What Scarlet Saw… *answer *

Whatever some ArenaNet employee is going to make up.

Jski.6180:

Devata.6589:

jsduke.6537:

Xenon.4537:

To answer the question of the title of this thread, we shout for an expansion because if we don’t, it might never happen. The higher-ups need to see demand before they invest the funds to create the supply.

You’ve got it all wrong, man. ANet is doing expansions. That was always the plan. What they said at the start of LS1, and what they’ve been doing ever since then, is releasing expansion content as it is ready for implementation, rather than making us wait until it is all finished and releasing it all at once.

You are getting the expansion right now. You’ve been getting your expansion all along. The only difference between what ANet has been doing and a traditional expansion model is the release schedule. The content is going to be the same. The only difference is when you get the content.

Look at the release schedule for WoW:

Initial Release — 11/2004
Burning Crusade — 1/2007 (26 months later)
Wrath of the Lich King — 11/2008 (22 months later)
Cataclysm — 12/2010 (25 months later)
Mists of Pandaria — 9/2012 (21 months later)

It’s approximately 2 years between updates. That’s pretty typical.

GW2 was released in 8/2012, 19 months ago. It is way too soon to be comparing the two models. I understand there are some items on your wish-list that haven’t come out yet. Be patient. It’ll happen. By all means let ANet know what kind of content you are looking for. I am also looking forward to seeing new Areas and Zones, and would love to see a new playable Race or Profession. But complaining that it hasn’t happened yet, at this point in the life of the game, is silly and unrealistic.

Shouting for an expansion is a waste of your time and energy. Instead, try posting helpful comments about what kind of content you want to see prioritized in the upcoming year.

There are a few problems with your idea.

1: WoW did release a lot of stuff in-between,

2: If GW2 would release stuff along the way and you would take your 19 of the 26 then we are are 3/4 of the way. That would mean we would have already about 3/4th of the content we would see in the first expansions of WoW. But we haven’t.

3: If GW2 would generate it’s income with expansions in stead of the cash-shop they can’t wait 2 years so the content released inbetween would be less then what you see i WoW but the game would get it’s first expansions at 1 to 1,5 year. So we would have already have had that (thats where there value would be). But we don’t have that type of content in the game. Now it might still be a little to early to say for sure. Need to wait to the first patch of S2 by then you can for sure say if they delivered or failed to deliver what they promised.

The thing we did see a lot of was temporary / cash-shop fluff. Because thats where there value is.

Quality wise imho they already failed and the promise of releasing content overtime (what you are also referring to) they also already failed because then we would have already had the 3/4 worth of a WoW expansions.

WoW also is a treadmill game and for GW2 to add in things that WoW added in over time would make GW2 into a treadmill game too. That what raids are for they are pure treadmills ppl would not feel that they need to get 40 ppl or so to do them if there was no stronger gear from them.

Going for the best gear is indeed an option in WoW. Just as going for the best looking armor, collecting all mini’s, going for the best looking mounts, going for the best looking pets, going for the strongest mini’s (not sure how there pokemon system works but I guess that is an option), maxing out the fun-crafts and so on.

You could do much of the same here but it’s less fun. Partly because it’s all mainly a gold-grind (yeah and that seems to be related to the cash-shop focus). But really ingame there is not much of such things.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

You get what you pay for.

Yep, thats why I want to pay for a good quality expansion (and why I did buy the game) and I refuse to pay gems that indirectly help to reduce the quality of the game.

But Anet does not give me the option, they only try to get me to buy gems making the game worse in the process of doing so.

nGumball.1283:

There is a reason there haven’t been innovation in the genre for years because the players are basically too_stupid_ to understand what experiementing is. ArenaNet is trying new models with the LS and it apparently didn’t work, leading us to taking a new path where the company tries to push the game forward all the time.

If you can’t udnerstand this, you may as well leave and play the amazing games out there. Not to disappoint you or anything, Guild Wars 2 is the leading MMO in the genre at the moment, wether you like it or not.

You may as well state by this point, like all the other haters, that Anet paid the media to rate their game well, something that Blizzard apparently can’t because they are too poor.

Ah this one again. It’s the players fault and people are not prepared to move to new things. Same argument you here anytime something new is bad and people complain about it.

You see it in politic discussion but also have a look on IT threads about Windows 8.

People are fine with experimenting but they simply don’t like some things. They don’t like the LS for example.

You know what was also an experiment of GW2.. Jumping Puzzles.. go check the forums for all the complains about that. kitten people who don’t want to see new things.. Oow wait there are no complains about that because people do like it.. hmm so maybe it’s not the experimental part / new part that is the problem. Maybe they complain simply because it’s bad.

Maybe the problem is that some people or companies are to proud to accept that some experiments fail. Thats what you can get with new things and experiments.. they might fail.

With the LS many people did see that fail coming as they did complain since the beginning.

You seem to think that Anet did see there mistake (so you agree it did not work, then why complain about people that complained about it?) and is changing it now. The problem is that the talk about more permanent content is what people did ask for, for a long time and what Anet said to do also a long time ago and so we should have already seen. Would it be possible that they now finally make the change? Yes but people did wait long enough so it’s now to late for many people.

Behellagh.1468:

Ashen.2907:

Behellagh.1468:

The problem with persistent content is while it allows new players to play events that long time players have already experience months or years ago, to those long time players that content in stale.

How is fighting largely the same foes, surrounded by the same scenery, using the same classes, using the same skills, using the same game play as you’ve been doing for months or years less stale to long time players than having exactly those options plus new zones, classes, skills, game play options as well ?

Nice taking out of context there.

Persistent in my mind means same old unchanging zones. Sounds like you are agreeing with me that to old players those areas would be stale to them. Even if you add a bit of new permanent content here and there in the old zones the bulk would still be same old – same old.

This is like arguing what’s better, episodic TV where the episodes are relatively independent of one another and serialized TV where the episodes must be watched in order to understand the over arching story. ANet decided on the 2nd one. You are suppose to get into the story they are telling, not distill is down to just events with newish group X for treasure Y. I know, I know, to a lot of players games are merely mechanical exercises featuring twitch and memory skills. But that’s like reading a novel and spend your time breaking down sentence structure but missing the story being told. ANet is trying to tell a story so players would log in frequently to keep playing.

Let’s say they add Cantha. An entirely new area to level up new characters. New professions, new skills, new looking armors and weapons. What would you think would happen? EVERYONE will go there leaving the existing zones, even the current often populated ones, a ghost town. We will still have dodge as our primary damage prevention mechanism. And now ANet would have to be concern about balancing not 8 but 8 + X professions. As for critters, deep down they will still be reskinned versions of the existing skeleton models and animations.

So lets say ANet has been working on all this as well as the LS. How long do you think it will take until the hardcore players become bored with it? A month, two? Then it’ll be kittening about when the next expansion comes out.

Not necessary. If designed in a good way there can be a lot to do in old zones. You want that specific weapon? Well then you might need to do a quest-chat or a dungeon in that zone. Want to build something for a profession then you might need to buy parts from NPC’s in that area, you want get that cool mini then you might need to kill that one mob in that zone, you are a ranger and want that cool pet, that might be rarely seen in that map.

When designed correctly there can be many reason to revisit older area’s and have fun there. You know, a good RPG is about more then just killing the the strongest mob in the game.

jsduke.6537:

Xenon.4537:

To answer the question of the title of this thread, we shout for an expansion because if we don’t, it might never happen. The higher-ups need to see demand before they invest the funds to create the supply.

You’ve got it all wrong, man. ANet is doing expansions. That was always the plan. What they said at the start of LS1, and what they’ve been doing ever since then, is releasing expansion content as it is ready for implementation, rather than making us wait until it is all finished and releasing it all at once.

You are getting the expansion right now. You’ve been getting your expansion all along. The only difference between what ANet has been doing and a traditional expansion model is the release schedule. The content is going to be the same. The only difference is when you get the content.

Look at the release schedule for WoW:

Initial Release — 11/2004
Burning Crusade — 1/2007 (26 months later)
Wrath of the Lich King — 11/2008 (22 months later)
Cataclysm — 12/2010 (25 months later)
Mists of Pandaria — 9/2012 (21 months later)

It’s approximately 2 years between updates. That’s pretty typical.

GW2 was released in 8/2012, 19 months ago. It is way too soon to be comparing the two models. I understand there are some items on your wish-list that haven’t come out yet. Be patient. It’ll happen. By all means let ANet know what kind of content you are looking for. I am also looking forward to seeing new Areas and Zones, and would love to see a new playable Race or Profession. But complaining that it hasn’t happened yet, at this point in the life of the game, is silly and unrealistic.

Shouting for an expansion is a waste of your time and energy. Instead, try posting helpful comments about what kind of content you want to see prioritized in the upcoming year.

There are a few problems with your idea.

1: WoW did release a lot of stuff in-between,

2: If GW2 would release stuff along the way and you would take your 19 of the 26 then we are are 3/4 of the way. That would mean we would have already about 3/4th of the content we would see in the first expansions of WoW. But we haven’t.

3: If GW2 would generate it’s income with expansions in stead of the cash-shop they can’t wait 2 years so the content released inbetween would be less then what you see i WoW but the game would get it’s first expansions at 1 to 1,5 year. So we would have already have had that (thats where there value would be). But we don’t have that type of content in the game. Now it might still be a little to early to say for sure. Need to wait to the first patch of S2 by then you can for sure say if they delivered or failed to deliver what they promised.

The thing we did see a lot of was temporary / cash-shop fluff. Because thats where there value is.

Quality wise imho they already failed and the promise of releasing content overtime (what you are also referring to) they also already failed because then we would have already had the 3/4 worth of a WoW expansions.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

Devata.6589:

What they also want to see in an expansion is some ‘new element / mechanic’. That can be many things. Personal house, house building, mounts, factions, mounted combat, mini combat. A specific new type of content that does not yet exist. Of course what one wants is different per person but any good expansion would add something completely new.

Highlighting this because it will never exist. Theres no reason for mounts to exist in this game like gw1. You can map to any town you want/waypoint. Granted the waypoint you want probably isn’t open if you’re in Orr but there is generally a waypoint close to pretty much everything you want. I mean hell go look at snowden drifts north west corner and tell me why we need 3 waypoints all within 10 seconds of each other? 1 is pretty much perma-contested because it’s a guild puzzle waypoint the other 2? yeahhhhhhhh………..

I don’t want to turn this into a mount thread so will keep it short. But simply the fact that some people like to ride on a mount, collect them or to make the world feel bigger by reducing the number of waypoints in new maps and implementing mounts in stead would be multiple reasons to introduce them.

Plus there don’t need to be a need. There is no need funny looking hats you know.

However it’s just an example of a mechanic that does not exist in the game yet and could be a new mechanic that could be introduced at some point.

Does not mather if it are mounts or something else. In an expansion people would expect some sort of new mechanic, thats all I said there. Want to discuss mounts, go to the many threads about it.

Xenon.4537:

Many of us want an expansion because it would mean far more substantial content than what the living story seems capable of.

I’ll try to list what we have gained since launch (in terms of permanent stuff), please correct me if I forget anything:
- ascended gear
- crafting to 500
- a new dungeon path to TA
- 1 new unique dungeon; fractals
- the LFG tool
- a smattering of QoL improvements such as the currency wallet
- 1 new wvw map
- 1 new zone
- a very scarce few new weapon and armor skins that weren’t temporary/gem store
- 1 new world boss (and one revamped old one)
- a couple new spvp maps

Looking back I’m actually kind of surprised by the list, but it’s still not what people expect in an expansion. Personally I (and I think most people) expect something like:
- a whole new continent
- a whole new personal story chain just as long (or close) as the original
- at least 10 new zones
- at least 5 new dungeons
- new armor and weapon skins for each of those dungeons and/or new events
- new open world dynamic events
- at least 3-5 new spvp maps
- a new (relevant to the new campaign) wvw map
—-And above all—-
- New playable race
- New class (or at least a slew of new weapon and utility skills, like 8-10 new skills and/or traits per class)

Not to mention all of this should be wrapped together in an overall package with a unifying theme, story, experience, etc. Not a disjointed series of unrelated patches that have nothing to do with each other until the last 4 or 5 patches where we find out the main villain is this crazy chick who we find out doesn’t even matter what her motives were…

I’ve said it before, but I think Anet simply doesn’t have the revenue to pursue such an expansion. NCSoft probably takes the lionshare of their gem store profits. I’m not mad at NCSoft though. I just wish they would see that GW2 has a passionate fanbase that deserves more and will pay for more if the content is up to par. But NCSoft is more interested in Wowstar it seems…

To answer the question of the title of this thread, we shout for an expansion because if we don’t, it might never happen. The higher-ups need to see demand before they invest the funds to create the supply.

Maybe you forget the guild-missions. Then again they where not part of the LS and mainly added because guilds where simply missing things to do (missing feature). So that might have been added even without a LS.

What they also want to see in an expansion is some ‘new element / mechanic’. That can be many things. Personal house, house building, mounts, factions, mounted combat, mini combat. A specific new type of content that does not yet exist. Of course what one wants is different per person but any good expansion would add something completely new.

SkylightMoon.1980:

~snap

“Why must people keep shouting expansion?”

Because thats what many people want?

“A lot of people want an expansion because its what they are used to in MMO’s. I think wanting gw2 to be a boxed expansion game just like every other MMO would be pushing it into another cookiecutter MMO.”

You try to answer your own question here but no it’s not because other MMO’s do that.. The opposite.
GW2 is now just like every other MMO out there becoming a F2P game… or better said a MMO that focuses on the cash-shop to generate money.
The game got released as B2P game and that was one of the reasons some people where interested in GW2 a true B2P game as those people might not want sub-based of cash-shop based games. Now it has become a cash-shop based game anyway. It’s not the fairly unique MMO that works with expansions to support it’s content but just another cash-shop game turning it into another cookiecutter MMO as you will.

“ I also think that if Anet saved all content they had now and kept working for the next 6 months to release an expansion in 9, that gw2 would plateau dramatically within the waiting period for this expansion. ”
that purely depends on the content they produce but yes it might have a slightly higher drop in-between then the LS would have, in the long term however it might be abler to keep people longer because they might deliver better quality content that does not have to be compromised in order to get higher gem-sales.

“Players can’t have both frequent 2 week or 1 month updates and an expansion.” They are not asking for that. If anything many people ask to stop or at lease reduce the whole LS approach.

“Unless you want to wait another 18 months for an expansion since they would have to devote less people to this big project which would take them more time. ”
They indeed created a problem. If they don’t have anything it would indeed mean an 18 month wait while there already is not enough to do. If they did it correctly from the start the first expansion would have already been released, if many of the content was not behind a gold-grind people however would have been busy getting all that stuff up until that first expansion.

“I expect the Living World to play out differently after listening to an interview with Colin. I think going back to 1 month updates may be a good idea.”
What Colin said was pretty much the same he said at the beginning of the LS Season 1 with the difference of moving from 1 month to 2 weeks. For LS story season 1 Anet did not listen because they knew better, maybe they now do start to listen as they finally reduce the time between patches.. what many people including me said back when they told us they where moving to 2 weekly patches. But maybe they should also listen to the part where people ask for expansions in stead of LS.

What Colin said about the LS for S2 is what he said for LS S1. People gave them the whole season 1 to do so and Anet did not deliver. Don’t tell them to wait again but really start changing.

“Expansions are generally a bad idea because of how long you have to wait. I can’t imagine waiting nearly a year to get an expansion and then wait for 4 months inbetween more periodic updates. ”

Well as you can see many people have no problem waiting for a longer time, they even prefer it over the 2 weekly or 1 month patches. Besides, what usually happens (now I know Anet whats to do everything different but anyway) is that there will be one bigger patch inbetween the expansions and of course some regular normal patches.
If the content can’t keep you busy for that time there simply is a problem with the content.

“I think the only reason certain people want expansions is because they are alienated by the experience of LS season 1”
They have been asking for this even before the LS was really on it’s way. Back then the excuse was “well people don’t know what to expect from the LS but it will be used to release expansions-based content”. Now it’s “they are alienated by the experience of season 1” REALLY???

It was back around the time of this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/GW2-unlikely-to-get-expansions-Interview/first when people really started to ask for expansions.. Mainly because before that time they simply expected an expansion was on the way. So that was long before they got alienated by the experience of LS season 1.

“LS season 1 could have gone immensely better if Anet just decided to put in more permanent content. If one of the four dev teams that worked in the living story content cycle was able to produce a new dungeon path, I dont see why the others can’t. ”
Colin said pretty close to the beginning of LS season what that they did listen to the complains and where going to put more permanent content in the game. So you have already seen the result of that.

chemiclord.3978:

Here’s Devata’s complaint in a nutshell.

1) Devata collects minis.

2) Devata doesn’t want to pay for minis.

3) Devata thinks an expansion model would mean free minis.

4) Therefore, only an expansion model is acceptable, and has fashioned his/her wordy, convoluted arguments completely around that predetermined conclusion.

I use mini’s aa an example. You should make that Devata is more interested in cosmetics or the RPG elements of the game then just in doing a dungeon as fast as possible.. (or getting the fastest kill)

Keeping that in mind, going down your list.

1 I would love to go for cosmetics but I don’t do that anymore in GW2 because it’s not fun in GW2.

2 I want to play directly for cosmetics, not pay indeed not in gold not in cash. True. Who would think somebody wants a game to play it?. Silly me.

3 Define free cosmetics? I think there would be no need for them to be monetized in this way so they could be put in the game with specific ways to get them in stead of general drops (so gold-grind) or cash-shop. Yeah. I don’t want them to just hand them out, thats also boring and devalues them. Like I said, I want to play for them and grinding gold is not playing for them.

4 So far I have indeed not see a cash-hop model being able to deliver here no. I did see sub-models deliver but don’t like a a timer over my head so then expansion-based model come to mind.

I don’t convoluted arguments completely around that predetermined conclusion. I simply came to this conclusion after seeing it happen.

Nice try but if you want to disagree that the the mini’s (to go back to that example) are not in the cash-shop because they want to make money with them then you are the one thats sees what he wants to see, not me.

Jski.6180:

You willing to wait 6 months before the next update then? Because for a real expansion it will be about 6 months or longer and from your point of view they can only work on one thing at a time so if they are working on an expansion (mostly pve) then you will not see any thing else added to the game in the time because of your logic.

Any way your mixed up a good bit the ideal of a LS is to play in a persistent world a world that still goes on even if your not there. Single players games are far better “i am the center of the universe” type of play. Most mmorpgs have system type of persistent world in them mainly holidays but they tend to just keep events going over and over till the end of time with no way of how it fits in a story line. I mean realty think about it if that drill never stops and LA is endlessly destroyed how dose that work if you killed scarlet already?

I like to play in a world that changes even if i am not there i know i am not the center of the universe and i never want to be.

If the game would be generating its main income with expansions (in stead of cash-shop or sub) you would expect an expansion every year / year and a half. That in-between there is nothing is not true, usually they at least have one bigger patch in-between but we would indeed see less patches as we do now.

So it’s not true that it would be another 6 months before we would get anything. And yes I would be fine with waiting 1 / 1,5 year for a big expansion with only one bigger patch in-between. Not only would I be fine with it, expecting higher quality and purely permanent content so it would have my preference.

Galen Grey.4709:

But thats exactly the thing Devata. Of course they’re selling stuff and ofcourse they want to sell stuff but none of that means they’re taking the game in the wrong direction to do that or keeping enjoyment hostage until you pay. buying the deadly new armors is not going to make my facing scarlet any more or less enjoyable. It is not going to make me miss any content from this expansion etc.. Yet you seem to be convinced that things like "Black Lion Trading Company brings you deadly new armors!” doesnt make the continent any better / worst in anyway. Yet you seem to feel strongly that it does.

They could make trib mode harder without being trial and error by having the traps activate on and off all the time also when not standing on them. Some things you could indeed see much you could not and was now purely trial and error.

About armor and so on. It depends on your preferred game-play. Thats why I usually use the mini example in these discussions. Thats very obvious for cash-shop reasons and it does in fact impact the game-play element.

In another mmo part of my game-play was going into the world collecting them. That whole game-play element has been removed or been made not fun and everybody can see thats directly related to the cash-shop.

Indeed there are also elements that are less obvious and we will never be able to factually proof or disprove until a ex-developer would say anything about it.

I went into this game thinking it would be B2P so initial cost and then generating income with money. I notice stuff going in the wrong direction before I discovered they where planning to go for a cash-shop focus in stead of expansion-sale focus.

Xenon.4537:

Lévis.5489:

TESO and Wildstar are coming out soon. Anet better have something up the sleeve instead of some bug fixes and quality of life updates.

Wowstar is just World of Warcraft in space, much like SWTOR. I watched several of my friends get hyped to all hell for Wowstar, and basked in their massive disappointment when they played the beta. If people are in to that sort of thing, I say let them leave.

ESO is in a similar boat. Same friends played it and said after 30 minutes they just wanted to go back to Skyrim. If people would rather play a watered-down multiplayer Skyrim instead of GW2, then let them.

People who actually care about GW2 will stay.

Sort of have to agree here. Wildstar is really for a specific type of people for my WoW combined with aliens does not work.

ESO could be interesting, especially there version of WvW that looks much cooler then GW2’s version but will not be interesting until it gets B2P or F2P.

The biggest thread for GW2 will be EQN and thats at least a year out. Anet can really thank the MMO gods for not really having any real competitors since release and for at least another year. Well I think ESO might go F2P sooner then that but games that change there payment model tent to be less popular.

Naevius.3185:

It seems far more efficient to me to produce content around events/story, doling it out every few weeks, compared to dumping a tone of new areas or something on people. For the most part, people would just burn through all that in two weeks anyway, and then complain.

In addition, an expansion that people had to buy, but could choose to avoid, would be problematic. It would split the community, and complicate things that go across the whole world – like map completion and guild missions, just to name 2.

When doing it correctly would not burn through it in two weeks.

People can avoid gems and problems like the guild-missions would also be easy to prevent. Just make new type of guild-mission for the expansions, to spread the current ones over the new area.

Overflows are a bigger problem if it comes to these sort of examples.

Galen Grey.4709:

@Devata

Did you ever consider you made a conclusion and then try to simply fit everything that happens in that conclusion?

Of course they want to make money and of course they’d do what they can to get to buy gems but thats not the same as what you’re implying ie that they’re designing the game in order force you to buy gems.

~

“Did you ever consider you made a conclusion and then try to simply fit everything that happens in that conclusion?”

No it was the other way around, I did see multiple problems and then I did see a those pointing towards about 3 main issues. Cash-shop focus being one of them. I do agree with you I have never been a fan of cash-shops but thats also because you always see these sort of things in cash-shop focused games.

Besides, is there anybody who wants to debate that for example putting mini’s in the cash-shop in stead of all in the open world has nothing to do with generating money with the cash-shop? The gold-grind might me less obvious but many things are very obvious.

“Of course they want to make money and of course they’d do what they can to get to buy gems but thats not the same as what you’re implying ie that they’re designing the game in order force you to buy gems.”
They do what they can to get you to buy gems.. you know that all they can really do are some design decisions if they want to get somebody to be more likely to buy gems.

I don’t say the whole game is designed around that idea but I do say there is a standard process they have going (like the gold-grind, like temporary items in the cash-shop and so on) and when implementing new content they will look how that can help them to generate money and when the content (much of it fitting into those standard processes) has to change a little bit for that they for sure will also do that because as long as gems are there main source of income they are depended on that.

“Sure you can theorize that SAB part 2 was an attempt to get you to buy a continue coin. Pretty easy to fit the added difficulty into your theory. But the added difficulty isnt just something you do as a cash grab, its actually something people have asked for. Yes they did go a little bit too far with it”

Lets just see what they did exactly. They released a level that you could only figure out by trying. It was not just hard, it was trial and error to find the route. That means a lot of dying. And what do we see at the same time.. a continue coin in the cash-shop. Sorry but no, if somebody sees that connection you can’t say he has just a theory and builds everything around that. It’s more that new things seem to simply fit the theory.

That (the trial and error requirement) did not change after the patch and for sure there are many many people working at ArenaNet that just want to build good content. But there are also monetize people that have a say in this and they are not just looking at making the best content.

So no it’s not about the ‘hard’ part it’s about the trial and error part meaning you will die a lot and then having that item in the cash-shop. That content would simply not be fun without that coin.

Fact that you yourself name some of those examples shows it’s pretty obvious, you also see it but might want to believe elsewhere so who says it’s not me who made a conclusion and then try to simply fit everything that happens but that you might doing that right now?

I don’t blame everything that is bad on the cash-shop but there are many tings I indeed do.

There are many things that have no other reasons. Why don’t we have a barber in the game where you can cut your hair for 16 silver but do we have hair-style kits in the cash-shop, mini’s and Transmution Crystals. Your expander example came after many people noticing 250 items per slot where way to less especially after just being overloaded with bloodstones and Empyreal Fragment. It all takes elements away from the game-world.
And no, converting geld to gems does not perse mean they shoot themselves. It means there is an even higher gold-grind increasing the value of gold making it even more interesting to buy gold for gems.

To answer your last question I just go to the login-screen and let ArenaNet answer you that question: “This week the Black Lion Trading Company brings you deadly new armors!” Likely part of that will be temporary there are also 3 new mini’s in the cash-shop. They did not put those in the open world for you to get but in the cash-shop so if going for mini’s is what you like that is also just a boring gold-grind with those items.

I do understand what you are saying and I am very careful to not fall in that trap. Something I see might not be releated to the cash-shop focus but there is simply to much (and a lot very obviously) to dismiss it as not being cash-shop related.

Flissy.4093:

Yes, I’d love for them to stop making free content and instead charge me for it. Oh boy I can’t wait!

Nothing is free. This so-called free content you talk about has to be payed some way.. How? By getting people to buy gems.

So what do they do? Whenever they release content they think… how can we make money with this content.

(Many people did see SAB part 1 as the best released content, maybe thats because they did release it as a joke so that was some of the little content where monetization was not so much on there mind)

Content that is good but will not generate income will be last on the list, making this whole game a kitten gold-grind gets people to buy gems but makes the game worse (as an example).

So the problem with your ‘free’ content is that it’s not really free, it gets influenced by there goal for making money, influenced in a bad way because the question is not only “what would be the best content” anymore.

Yes I would rather pay for good content then get bad quality content for free. And yes I get that content for free as I have never ever and will never ever spend any dime on gems. So when I would ask for them to focus on expansions to generate income I am asking to pay money but then I also expect a product of better quality.

I made a thread about it myself so I would not have to go into details in every thread about this subject so for more details have a read: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first

Lishtenbird.2814:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

Whatever your reasons are, please use potions and food, at least the cheapest ones (general level 80 is mostly dirt cheap) during global events where every hero counts (like Knights, Tequatl etc.) It hurts so much to be 5 seconds short of defeating the last knight. When soloing, of course, it’s completely up to you.

The only place I did use it was Tequatl (except for a dungeon once in a while when a party member sends me some food) because only at Tequatl I did notice it was really necessary. So if it’s really necessary I will but I would prefer if the whole mechanic would not even exist.

Dante.8456:

You can’t expect everyone to be at a capable skills level, the game consists of all standards of play. Open world events should therefore not require too much skill (and they often don’t). What they need to add is HARD and CHALLENGING content that does require a lot of skill but also gives some top end and exclusive rewards. That way people will want to improve to access these rewards. Sort of like high-level fractals. Without skill you don’t last long there

Yeah but personally I don’t see maxing out your build as ‘skills’. Skills imho is tactics, even dodging at the correct time and so on. I would love to see more skill based content where the build is not so important. Like SAB and the Wintersday PvP thing but then really in the game.

Even JP’s require a form of skills.

All those numbers take away from the skill and put it into number-crushing. Ever played Wolfenstein ET? Now that is a game that requires some skills but there is no number crushing going on at all.

SkiTz.4590:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

lol. Food viewed as cheating. Now I have seen it all

I assume when you play other games where there are potions, you don’t use any of them either because its cheating?

Forget doing things effeciently, lets take our merry time in this world eh?

Time = money. You are wasting other ppls time when you join a party and not provide 100%. Without buffs, you are helping out the party to maybe 90% of your capacity. You can do better. Use oils/food, theres a reason its in the game. To buff you. If thats cheating, then hell, everything is cheating.

I guess you dont try to stack might either because thats also cheating in your dictonary?

My build is based on building stack. That is a fighting mechanic, not some food you eat to get a boost. I think the whole food mechanic is silly.

Time = money need to do things efficiently.. Well that is indeed what this game is pointing you towards. That is then also my biggest dislike about this game, the endless grind for gold and getting that as fast as possible.

I prefer hard content that is fun in stead of boring gold-grind.

Btw I don’t think I slow a group down a lot. I almost never die and if I do it’s 9 of the 10 times when ressing somebody else. Now dying is a way to slow the group down.

No in many games I do not use potions indeed. Only heal potions / health packs and in cases of need maby something like mana.

But never any of that other stuff, makes it all way to easy and games have already become extremely easy during the last 10 years.

Edit: Oow and about food being cheating.. thats how I feel about it personally. It’s like cheating myself. I don’t consider somebody who uses food to boost a cheater. But also don’t think I am very impressed by somebody who gets a PvP kill when I see he is buffed with food. It increases your stats for really doing nothing. Thats why I see it as a way of “cheating”.

It’s the same as a sporter who uses doping.

Blaeys.3102:

Flytrap.8075:

I’m beginning to think that Colin is a robot or an A.I. because he seems to be stuck in a repetition loop.

That’s what happens when people ask the same question over and over.

Robot or not, if we get new guild missions, I may just fly to Seattle and kiss him on the mouth.

That is not what he said! But I did expect some new additions to the guild-mission. Some new challenges some new rushes and some new puzzles.

What I would like to see there would be really some new missions.

Back when they released the guild-mission the said they made it very easy to add new missions and so we would going to see that. As far as I know all they add where a few new bounty’s (that is not very interested) a few new trek locations (anybody still doing the trek?) and a new puzzle (very much appreciated) but that was it and no new guild-missions so far.

But yeah, lets hope we do get some new stuff there, some new missions and some addition to the challenge, rush and puzzles. That would be nice. They are starting to become a little repetitive by now.

Scrambles.2604:

Devata.6589:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

Well it’s the truth. Luckily I also almost never need to use it (in any game). I always play games in hard and still consider many games easy.

I don’t think you could say I am a ‘noob’ in general but what I am trying to say is that I simply don’t like the number crushing element that you see so much in MMORPG’s.

do you upgrade your gear? Or do you still use the low lvl blues? Not hating just curious.

I do upgrade and I don’t mind doing that. I should say it does not have my priority, especially when leveling it happens that I use old stuff so long then I really start to notice it. More something I want (or need) to check out when max leven.

But for me then finding a highest tier set with the stats that are good for me is really enough. Then come all the other numbers and all the people debating what is best and what sigil to use and what rune and all the traits. What I usually do is I simply ask somebody or I just read and take that what sounds most fun. I have now 2 armor sets, one more Tougness one for more DPS on my main. Exotics, when I just completed my second set they introduced the ascended stuff.

I just don’t like the number crushing and changing everything after a patch because OMG now something else is a little better and all that stuff. It’s just an element that does not have my interest.

So yes I do get the full set (even two when really necessary) but don’t ask me to bother with all the little numbers after that because I rather don’t and only do if I really need to.

It’s just the level of detail with those numbers many people here seem to love so much that I (and many with me) just don’t care about.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Devata.6589:

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

scratches head

That there is a new one.

Well it’s the truth. Luckily I also almost never need to use it (in any game). I always play games in hard and still consider many games easy.

I don’t think you could say I am a ‘noob’ in general but what I am trying to say is that I simply don’t like the number crushing element that you see so much in MMORPG’s.

Maybe not everybody is interested in maximizing damage / kills. I know this seems very strange to some people. The other way around some people don’t understand why other people are interested in cosmetics (and so are just as mad about cosmetics in the cash-shop as P2kill stuff in the cash-shop).

I don’t really care about all the exact stats. If I can do the content I am fine, it’s just not something I care much about. And food, I almost never used ‘foods’ in any game. I have always seen it as a form of cheating.

About people not going outside of Queensdale train and world boss zergs. I personally don’t do that so much but those people you seem to be referring to are likely more interested in cosmetics then numbers and that has been turned into a gold-grind in this game so people look for an easy and fast way to grind gold. Thats why you see those people there.

Personally I don’t die a lot and I know how to dodge but I am not interested in checking out all the numbers to max out stuff and I almost never use (only when really necessary) food because thats just not my play-style.

I would care more about having a nice mini. (not so much in this game because that part is all monetized and turned into a boring grind.. but in general) I also like hard content but the whole number-crushing I don’t like. If it was up to me there were less options for that.

Flytrap.8075:

This thread is eerily prophetic.

Yeah any many threads like this where. Anet can’t say they where not warned. They got the feedback very early, kept on getting it and kept coming with excuses why everybody was seeing it wrong.

See for example Clolin’s comment on page 2.

“We’ve said it a few times before, but I want to just re-iterate we’ve heard folks feedback on this and will be doing a much larger mix of permanent, recurring (content that can occur again in the future), and more world impacting releases as it relates to living world in the second half of the year.”

We did get some permanent stuff but by far most was temporary.

“There will still absolutely be some amount of temporary, in particular story-driven moments to help drive the narrative forward.”

Some to just drive the story? No most was temporary. You don’t need so much temporary content and you don’t need any temporary achievements and rewards to drive a story.

“You’ll also see some of the content previously noted as “temporary” return permanently to the game in the 2nd half of the year.”
The fractal stuff. Not in the original way, and not with the achievements and rewards linked to them. Elements that made it so much fun.

- “The content will become better, more impact and more polished.”

We all know the LS stuff is not very polished, the impact is (visually) there but was never a points of discussion and it mainly become more so a bigger list of temporary achivements, rewards and content to miss out on.

- Living story is only a small team, they have other teams working on other stuff.

We did see something from that (Edge of the Mist and fractals) but overall still not much.

Well now after season one it turns out everybody’s fears where correct and still the same excuses are being used.

The thing is, they are very stubborn. They did some things different like the LS and like no instanced raids. There are many complains about the LS content and the open world raids don’t work so much so people sort of create there own instanced raids with special guild and special servers.

However so far thye have been to proud to say “ok we did try all these new things, some worked, some didn’t we change what didn’t.” No they don’t they just carry on. I mean they can’t now implement instanced raids. That would mean they would say they where wrong and well because WoW.

Like it’s a shame to be wrong with some of the things they did try.

To conclude, yes they can’t say they where not warned.

Randall.7306:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Where in the world do you people find where they said anything about an ‘expansion sized’ patch recently?

Probably here:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

“We have a couple of really big Guild Wars projects cooking in the background,” Johanson told me.

Later, he added: "Some of our players believe that because we are doing this Living World seasons, and these features or these big feature-builds, that it means that the features you would traditionally get in an expansion, or the content you would traditionally get in an expansion, is not something that will get added to Guild Wars 2. And that is not true at all.

“Not only are we doing those things, new features and content you would traditionally get from a boxed expansion are also things that will be added to Guild Wars 2.

“The thing that we haven’t decided yet,” he went on, "is what form that type of content will take. Is it right for Guild Wars 2 for that kind of boxed expansion? Is it right for that to be something we add, live, through storylines in the game? Is that something we want to sell through our in-game store? There are a lot of different options available to us.

“… but we absolutely are going to do sweeping new features that you would traditionally only get in expansions – large regions, content and progression additions to your characters in the form of growth and professions and races. Those are all things that you will see in the lifespan of Guild Wars 2.”

It does NOT say “next update is an expansion folks!”, but it talks, recently, about big projects, expansion-sized stuff, and adding things.

As Anet firmly believes in obscure communication, it got mixed with the previous statement linked some posts above about the “post Scarlet patch”.

I think these are the lines it’s about:

“When [Living World Season One] ends [on 4th March], we’re going to take a break for a little bit and then we’re going to do one really big feature patch that is more akin to what people see from some of our [MMO] competitors,” said Johanson, "where they bundle a lot of features together into a really big patch every now and then.

“We’re going to provide that experience and have this huge feature build that has a whole lot of gameplay-changing elements, a lot of quality of life improvements, a lot of features bundled together into one big patch. And that’ll come some time not too far after Season One completes.”

It’s extremely vague but the biggest different with them and there competitors is not having had an expansion.

And here he defines that ‘feature patch’ ad a big patch as you would see with there competitors with many gameplay-changing elements, QOL stuff and a lot of features bundled together into one big patch.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Pie Flavor.1647:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

kgptzac.8419:

I dare ArenaNet make a poll for every player to rate the first “season” of Living Story, the anticipation of the next season, and publish the result.

The sample size might be too small to make it a valid poll…

ANet does not really want to know what people think of their LS, they prefer to stay somewhere over the rainbow with unicorns pooping rainbows.

so the sample of “people who experienced living story” is too small to make it valid to analize “opinions of people who experienced living story”?

The sample size of “people who actually fill it out” or “people who don’t just log in to troll the poll”.

Seriously, how many people would come back to their accounts JUST to put down all 1/10s for content they didn’t play in a game they don’t want to come back to otherwise?

I don’t know why we are debating some imaginary poll that will never happen. But if you would want to have that it should be easy to only make the poll available to people who where regular online in the game during the last year.

But this forum and this thread also gives you an indication of how people feel, it are no exact number but it’s an indication.

Some like the LS many seem to not like it. Same for temporary content. That is the indication you get when checking forums, talking to people ingame and seeing mapchat in LA.

Read this: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-01-14-you-thought-that-was-it-for-guild-wars-2

They really talk about expansion-like content.

I must confest, the whole thing about expansion-like content and working on stuff on the background is something Anet has been saying sins day 1 of the living story and so far we haven’t seen much of it. As matter of fact somewhere a year ago we where supposed to get a patch that would have been expansion-like. Still not sure what patch that was suppose to be.

About permanent content, I forget to mention Edge of the Mist. Maybe the biggest temporary content added so far. It did not solve the WvW problems but it for sure is a nice addition to the game.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

We had that same talk a year and a bit ago. At that time they even hyped the coming content in the next two monthes as being worth the amount of an expansion.
They delivered what again? I do not even remember, because it was so little.

Now people get their hopes up, and ANet is doing the same mistake.

What Colin says we get, and what we actually get is not necessary the same thing.

Yeah indeed a year ago we where also supposed to get an expansion-like patch or indeed a patch being worth the amount of an expansion. Still not sure what patch that was. But at some time you would think that content will come would you not?

Schizo.1375:

Forgive me if already been said but if we are going to talk about barrier for entry for new or lapsing players then I think large expansions would be a greater problem. One of the reasons I never played WoW was the amount of money I would have had to sink in just to get caught up on expansions.

What they usually do is that they reduce the cost of older versions / expansions. For your WoW example. They sell a ‘battle-chest’ that has the original game and all expansions up to Cataclysm. I have seen it in shops from 5 euro up to a max of 15 Euro. I just checked to see the price of the last released expansion (MoP) that cost 19 euro in there digital shop (I have also seen it in a shop for 16 euro).

Sometime after the upcoming expansions is released MoP will likely also go into the battle chest without the battlechest increasing in price.

So just looking at the total cost you could buy the complete WoW collection for lets say 30 euro’s (GW2 cost you more to start so not sure how that money could be a problem for you). When a company generates it’s money purely expansions (not like wow on subscriptions) I would not expect them to drop the prices of the last 2 expansions very fast so lets say you would be required to pay about 70/ 80 euro’s if you are 3 expansions down the road (that number would then also stay the same 8 expansions down the road) but you are not required to buy the last (2) expansion(s). You can simply buy that at a later time when you have the money. So from a money perspective I don’t see a huge problem to catch up.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I think you missed the point of my post. Oh, well.

No I got it.. thats why I said “I got used to that”… being disappointed by what ArenaNet does.

Well maybe the ‘feature’ would be something simple as seeing when guild-members where online for the last time and represented for the last time and the ability to search by different type of weight on the TP and maybe mobs don’t start running back in the middle of a fight. All those type of features that should have already been in the game back during beta. That would also make me a little happy.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I think you will be disappointed in your ‘expectations’, then. But, good luck to you.

I got used to that. Thing is that ArenaNet will almost have to do that. They said they would release content like we would normally see in expansions but they would do it with there living story. We are now at a time where an expansions would have been released if the expansion focus was the way they had gone for, and it’s the end before a next season of the LS.

If they would not deliver now they pretty much say “oke we can’t implement expansion like content with the living story” while I believe it should indeed be possible to do that. It would still not have my preference (because of multiple reasons) but it would be possible. If they don’t deliver before the start of the new season or lets say in the first patch of season 2 they have proven they can’t.

In a way they already did because if they would release it in one patch it would still not be like they said that they would put it in during the living story but at least you would see the same type of progress in the game you would have expected to get from an expansion by now.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

The upcoming big patch is not a ‘content only’ patch, but rather a features only patch, so it probably will not have a new race or new maps.

Living Story Season Two may bring us a new map(s), with the introduction of a new Dragon, though.

Well define “features only”? But yes that is the exact wording they used. And we will indeed get some new maps and likely a new race between now and the end of season 2 simply because the dragon that awoke is as far as we know in maps outside of the current maps. I expect part of the “features only” patch will be a map or maps and maybe a race.

Those maps will likely then also have permanent content but I do not yet see a change where the living story uses mainly permanent content / rewards and achievements in stead of temporary things.

Kaaboose.3897:

Devata.6589:

In my previous comment https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Too-Much-Temporary-Content-Can-Only-Harm-GW2/page/12#post2979627 on this thread I was defending Anet for seemingly going in a better direction with the (then) last patches.

Sadly after that they turned back to the same temporary stuff. Halloween did not allow you to do last year events and the toxic stuff is also once a gain a temporary achievement and rewards grind where the content itself also seems to be temporary.

That is to bad. I hope they will still go back to a better living story and really focusing on expansions to generate income.

Sad thing is that where months ago most people that had some issues with the game said “this game still has potential” while at this moment most people say “this game had so much attentional”. Many people simply don’t believe anymore that Anet is going to make the needed changes.

Nice to see that some people (Lillium.6481) that are critical about the games state do still have confident in a change.

@cesmode.4257
“To arenanets credit, they have acknowledged this and will strive toward less temporary content, or so they say.”
True but they said that months ago and for a while it looked like they indeed where making that change but at this moment we are back where we where. Maybe even worse because the list of temporary achievements seems to be only growing.

@Facepunch.5710
I don’t think that is true. Many people who do not follow the story also don’t like the living story content. So making it go about the lore would not change that much. And the people who do follow it might even be disappointed about the way it gets thrown in the game. See the new fractal and the reactions on it.

So I hear through the Grapevine that GW2 Tempotrary Conent may be coming to an end. I was wondering if anyone here without too biased a view, maybe Devata could give me an honest rundown on how the Temporary conent ended up turning out and if it is indeed becoming less of a focus of GW2’s updates.
I’d really like to give GW2 another shot but I’m not falling into the limted time achivement grind skinner box trap again.

My view is that it has not changed a lot. The living story content until the latest patch is still temporary stuff. It’s still a list of temporary available achievements and rewards linked to temporary content.

They said they would leave more permanent content but really all I see as permanent is some of the effects to the landscape. For example, they made a toxic event in Kessex Hills and if you go there you still see it’s now different (I did prefer the old look but that to the side). Also LA will most likely not be back in it’s old state any time soon. But the (playable) content, the achievements and the rewards (of the LS) are all still temporary so you might still feel the push to complete that all before the time runs out. What sort of makes the game feel like a job in stead of a game.

However we also did see some permanent additions. A new world boss, another world boss got a revamp. Because of the open world raid in stead of instanced raids it will be hard to kill them so what happened is that there are special guilds that go to a specific server to kill it (pretty much making a instanced raid) but you can still do that. One new dungeon path replacing an old one (not sure of that will stay because it’s related to scarlet who is now dead) and a few new fractals. Also a ton of qol updates. Oow and the weapons you can buy with tickets do now stay after an event but become more expensive.

But overall temporary content is still the same type of temporary content it was before with the same problems it had before imho.

Upcoming big patch however will be a content only patch.. Pretty much like a mini expansion (no real details but I expect a few new maps and maybe a new race to start the new LS season, I hope for more but thats what I expect) so that is some good news.

If stuff will be different in season 2 we will see but as long as there marketing strategy stays the way it is I don’t think that will change a lot. They are now making money by selling gems and the temporary content seems to be related to that tactic. The only way I see this would really change is if they would change to generating income not by a cash-shop but by focusing on expansion sales for income and they have not made that change nor do they seem to have any interest in doing that or even releasing an expansion at all.

In the end only time will tell.

Jski.6180:

Makarei.4316:

i don’t like temporary content, I’m very casual player, maybe play once or 2 times a week, i very rarely play the temporary content because i never get time to complete the achievements or be there on the last day to the finish the end content stuff. if it was solid content id be able to accomplish it better in the time i can allocate to playing the game. that’s is one reason why i stopped playing gw2, as there is no point playing something that’s gone in a few days or within a week.

But that what a persistent world is things changes with out you being there. If you want to be the center of an universe single players games fit that bill a great deal more then any online game could.

No a persistent world stays the way it is. You mean a living world.. Well thats indeed the excuse Anet uses but really think about it. We are all on a living world. Sure things come and go but overall things stay for a long time.

The event / story would be the building of a public pool in your area. then when it’s there it’s very likely there for at least 30 years.

In a real world stories go by but ‘content’ and ‘achievements’ (the pool, swimming) will stay at least for a long time.

The temporary nature does not make it feel alive, it makes it feel rushed and it feels like you are being pushed into doing stuff you don’t like. Like work I guess. But thats exactly what a game should not be.

timmyf.1490:

My Prime Holo fight last night had 3-5 AFKers. I reported them all for botting.

Their defense? “Getting chivos.”

In Guild Wars 2, you get achievements for standing in the corner avoiding combat. You get rewards for standing in the corner while you do something else on your computer.

It just boggles my mind.

ArenaNet: PLEASE at least add an option for Leeching to the report menu so we can correctly identify why we are reporting a player. The AFKers try to scare people away from reporting them by saying “You can’t report me, there’s not an AFK option, you’ll get in trouble instead for a false report” which keeps a lot of people from filing the report.

You should not be mad ad those people but ad Anet for the way they designed the games.
during the marionette I had the same. I had to do it multiple times and it came up once every x hours so I put my char there waiting for it to pop up. Of course I am not going to stare at my screen the whole time. I do other stuff in the mean time. It happened twice that when I came back there where two chest thanking me for my participation. I did not even do it on purpose but I can understand that some people do it so they can cheat out under the boring grind they might find required to do because of the temporary achievements.

When you design the content like this (do the same thing multiple times and wait x time before you can do it) this happens. I guess it has a lot to do with Anets unwillingness to build raid systems (because WoW) and there willingness to make everything a achievement grind.

In LA I was at some point just doing one of the achievements (collect stones or something) by doing so I was not a big help for the rest but well I was just doing the achievements.

So yes it’s bad and annoying when that happens, I did stand on both sides but don’t blame the players for it.

Legatvs.8260:

Reminds me of the people in GW1 complaining about almost everything.
Back there it was really ridiculous because most things were simply cosmetic.

Now with this LS-thingy they brought in the feeling that we had on events like wintersday and so on. Be there and get stuff, or miss it and don’t get new and shiny things.

But as far as I can see it there is no drawback if you can’t get your chars in there in time.
You simply just don’t get the items.
I am sure there will be good alternatives for these items to be achieved in other ways.
Sure with different – more common – looks but that’s no problem for me.

Only thing I am sad about is that I am going to miss a good bit of story here.
And its not only a bag of rice falling over in Cantha – its the awakening of another ED!

Now I have to read in forums and wikis to catch up before I log in next time and everybody is talking about Modremoth and having fancy new backpacks…
But this may not be an option for every player.
I guess not even everybody is willing to read through forum and wiki and thus is just missing a part of lore.

I always loved the lore behind GW1 and I do my best to be at least OK with the story of GW2, but its harder here, than it was back in GW1.
I guess it is the price for an open world and so on and after all I love GW2 too.

Thanks ANet and go on doing a good job with this game – it has much potential like the first GW and I believe you can improve it the way you did the first time.

“Back there it was really ridiculous because most things were simply cosmetic. But as far as I can see it there is no drawback if you can’t get your chars in there in time.”

You seem to forget that this is a RPG game. I think it’s funny people act like if it’s oke as long as it are cosmetics because then there is ‘no drawback’.

Collecting cosmetics, trying to get that special looking item is very much a game-play element in this game (maybe not for everybody but it is for many PvE players). The fact that it does not help to kill you anything does not make it any better. The main item to go for in this game, the legendary weapons are mainly cosmetic.

Collecting cosmetic items, finding that unique looking one, collecting pets is just as much of a gameplay element in a RPG as killing is in a FPS and when they monetize items that help you get easier kills in a FPS everybody is screaming about P2W and how it’s bad but when monetizing cosmetics in a RPG game then suddenly people try to defend it. Thats funny to me.

Making it a boring grind to get those items effects the game-play in a negative way. Giving a short cut by buying gold devalues the item form a game-play element so also cosmetics very much influence a RPG game. Maybe not for the person who is just interested in sPvP or WvW but very much for those interested in those RPG elements like collecting those items.

So no, I don’t think it’s strange people complain about that. It makes perfect sense to me. I came to dislike much of the game because they turned all that stuff into a gold-grind, achievement race against time and cash-shop items. Throw in a P2Kill (what seems to be the definition when people talk about P2W) for sPvP and it would not effect me. I would still not agree but it would completely not effect me because I never do sPvP. But I guess then many people will complain about P2W. It all just has to do with what element of the game you prefer. GW2 very much focuses on the cosmetics and monetize exactly that part. So again.. no I don’t think it’s strange people complain about that.

If you however take a break from the game for multiple months you do not get bothered with that part of the monetization so it’s no surprise that exactly those people seem to post these threads.

Nury.3062:

The problem is not Anet is the ppl who think the LS is a " temporary grind for achievements, rewards and zerging". All i see is me saving Lion’s Arch,there is no grinding for me,zerging?!?!? It’s a war,do you see in war parties of 5 fighting other party of 5 or stuff like that? Are you forced to get all those achievements? I like to have everything that i like,that’s why i am full ascended and i will get the skin from the LS,the title etc.That is not grind for me and if you think that’s a grind well better don’t do it.

Grind my have a different definition for others,i consider grind the champ farms,that’s why i don’t do that…

Well you can blame it on the people but then the problem is Anet made it so that the people see it like that (by making a list of temporary achievements and rewards many people might not want to miss out on). And they did that on purpose. It’s how they try to keep people busy.

You are correct that the real definition for grind does not really apply here, but because it’s a never ending list of things many people FEEL forced to do (feel forced because it’s temporary) that still gives it a grindy feel.

You also say, if you don’t like to not do it then don’t do it but thats the whole points. They might want to do it but not now, thats why they feel forced. They might also like to get the reward and be willing to do something for that reward even if they don’t like it but there the problem is that once again they have to do it now, and 2 weeks from now there is another think they need to get now and two weeks later again and two weeks later again and two weeks later again and two weeks later again and two weeks later again and two weeks later again and two weeks later again.

So yea, there are many people that have been playing for a longer time and complain about that LS.

I also notice that most of these sort of positive threads come from people who did leave for a longer time (your first line I see a lot). Likely because they don’t care on missing out stuff or because they have not been bothered with that LS ‘pressure’ for the last 1,5 year. But it for sure is striking.

It’s also not very surprising because the game did have a good core. So when you come back to it and don’t care so much about the story and stuff you missed then you come back to a game with a good core. It’s more the ongoing things (like LS, like the endless gold-grind and never ending stopping list of achievements) that so many people dislike.

You said many people complain about Scarlet I just said what most are really complaining about. Thats it.

If you like it thats fine I just reacted on that part of your comment. I am not here to turn it into a negative thread or anything so I will leave it with this but when reading your comment I figured I tried to explain to you why many people complain. I had the feeling you did thought it was strange people where complaining.

Velijan.9061:

I also work full-time and spend roughly 3-6 hours per week on GW2. And I don’t really get what your complaint is. The events run for two weeks, so that’s pretty ample time to play them and get acquainted with them. As to the plot, you’re really not missing much. There’s no deep thinking involved here. All you need to know is that LA is being attacked, you gotta rescue people from LA and kill all the monsters. It’s the same as any other live event. Really not that complicated. If you’re a lore buff and you missed all the previous LW stuff and want to know the whole story, sure, you’ve got some reading to do on the wiki. But if you’re a lore buff, you’re probably doing that anyway.

It’s more the problem that when you have to do something (having to do in a way that if you don’t do it now it’s gone next months) does make it less fun.

Plus you can’t do everything in those few hours. Yes going in LA once to help the people would work but try to complete the list of achievements (that do have some story elements to them) will be a bigger problem.