Guild Wars 2

Problem is that it is a never ending grind of temporary achievements and rewards that is indeed part of this story. Depending what you prefer the most of it depends on what you dislike the most (story / achievements. rewards).

Solution would be easy. First of all, don’t let the story go so fast. Every 2 weeks a new part and every month the removal of the one introduced a month before.

If they really want to go on with the living story then release something new every month and then remove it after 2 months.

In addition, the story would be temporary but that would then leave behind permanent content that people can always do to catch up with the story but also all achievements and rewards should be linked to that permanent content introduced by the story. That should all not be temporary. In that way people can also go for the rewards and do the achievements whenever they want.

Lastly the story should be available for everybody to read and see back.

But then again, these sorts of suggestions had been made even before the many complains about the living story started. Simply because many people did foresee this problems. So far ArenaNet never did anything with them so you can wonder if they will ever do.

If they would Season 2 would be a good moment to do so, but seeing as how they have been doing stuff since release I have not a lot of hope they will made the needed changes.

There excuse for doing it this way is because only that way you would get a true living world. Things are temporary. But is this really true. Of course things can go but what usually happens is that maybe a swimming-pool gets build in your neighborhood.

The building of that would then be the story. Once that is build you can go there for many many many years to come. That would allow you to see part of that story and would be the achievements and the rewards when translating it to the game-world.

No, in a true living world you don’t have to change after these sort of ‘achievements’ because they will be gone a month from now.

Nury.3062:

Played this game for some time,short after the release and started again few months ago and never stopped after.
Guild Wars 2 is still young game but i can already see improvements and additions.First time i logged in i was a bit dissapointed when i found out i lost so many things that i can’t get because of the temporary content[Living World] but that’s only my fault because i chose another game over GW2,i made sure that i get everything in the next Living World releases. Many players complain about Scarlet and the Living World but too see Lion’s Arch in flames,the place where we all gathered,the place where i bought my first armor,the place where where i crafted my ascended armor,weapon,the place where i recruited most of my guild members…..is just awesome.The game still has flaws but as i said,is a young game.

Thank you ArenaNet for everything you did and you do for this game.

Many people also complain about the endless grind party because of this “i made sure that i get everything in the next Living World releases.”. If they do season 2 the same way as season 1 and you will indeed try to do that you will understand why people complain.

It’s not fun to have to run after a never ending list of temporary achievements and rewards.

Like you talk about LA thats what you are supposed to feel about it and it’s what many people would when things where done differed but for those that did not leave, while seeing that LA is destroyed and that Anet really tried to make something out of it, it is also just yet another temporary grind for achievements, rewards and zerging. Taking all the value out of the LA overhaul.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chrispy.5641:

150-200 words…..Darn,..no more walls of text….
…..Actually, I’m totally okay with that!

Me to. I believe it will lead to higher value discussions, problem solving and ideation.

Chris

And here am I thinking that explaining why, and how, is important, even more important then the statement itself because it describes the context what is very important. Silly me.

Looking at that it might explain the bad moderation on this forum where the moderators also never seem to be checking the context of what is being said.

No, I think giving a good explanation with some examples is much better then just making a short statement. I rather see a good wall of text then a statement that can be interpreted in many different ways.

But like I said, silly me why would the facts, logics and idea behind a statement be important.

JustTrogdor.7892:

The update went live on the 18th of Feb 2013 as promised.

/end thread

So much later as normal.

Oow and of what people where left half is in LA and the other half is waiting because they can’t enter LA. According to some it’s on a 1 hour timer. Not sure of thats true but it’s more waiting nonetheless.

The irony.

MrRuin.9740:

Devata.6589:

I rather have them make sure they have a patch working and tested at leas a few days before.

You must be disappointed on a daily basis expecting absolute perfection and precision timing from everyone and fully expecting nothing to ever go wrong.
I’m sorry, dude. You’ve blown this out of proportion to an incredible degree.

And so did all the people in La complaining. But most stopped. Because they logged out.

People planned things around the patch thats now all down the drain. That are the facts and why people are complaining.

MrRuin.9740:

Devata.6589:

It’s not because people are silly and refuse to accept the fact that the world does not revolves around them. It’s because Anet is silly.

So, you would rather they roll out a patch they know won’t work right?
You are so rigid and unforgiving in your time frame of a game that you cannot accept that they even said its going to be late to fix problems?
So, take note Anet – apparently its more important to stick to a rigid schedule and roll out flawed and broken updates to appease the rigid inflexibility of a tiny portion of the playerbase than fix them before going live….

I rather have them make sure they have a patch working and tested at leas a few days before.

And the said about 15 min ago that the patch would be in 10 min. No patch yet.

sorudo.9054:

lordkrall.7241:

Devata.6589:

They have been patching on the same time for over a year. You may expect them to launch on that same time..

No they haven’t.

They have never been on the same time actually.
The same general area of time, yes, but the exact same time? Nope. I don’t even think two patches have ever been released at the exact same time.

And to be fair they did tell us back during the “usual” release-time that it would be delayed.

for almost 9 years they release the big patches on exactly 12:01 PM, it’s bin like that in GW1 and has always bin even in GW2.
even with a delay, they never pass the 2 hour delay.
ether they took a break or are losing the will to push this life, shows how much their quality has dropped.

With the new info I have about there delay notification.. Why then did they say they delayed it? Because if you would be right it would not be a delay.

No, also the ‘bigger’ patches have been around that time for like a year.

MrRuin.9740:

If they released it early and it was buggy, you’d complain.
If they released it for your timezone, others would complain.
If they released it perfectly on time, someone would complain because it didn’t accomodate their work schedule.
Its always going to be midnight somewhere. They will always kitten someone off.

If they would release it around the time they did release it every time and it would not be bugged nobody would be complaining about those things.

lordkrall.7241:

Devata.6589:

yeah around the same time. 1 to 2 hours difference maybe. We are now 6 hours past that.

Interesting that you decided to ignore the part of my post where I pointed out that they did tell us those “6 hours (I can’t seem to recall very many patches coming that early to be honest)” that it would be delayed to afternoon server-time.
So we KNOW that it will be released later than usual, we KNOW that it is a bit delayed, and yet people here seems to think that we haven’t gotten any information whatsoever.

I did never see any official talk about a delay. Might be somewhere but then not in a place where everybody sees it.. Like in the login screen or something.

Edit:
Thnx to the other posters here I did find it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Escape-from-LA-Update/first#post3654101

So they released that information about 5 hours ago when people where already waiting and things where already organized. And they only did that on the forums.

lordkrall.7241:

mercury ranique.2170:

No its not. I will play and enjoy this content tomorrow. I have 4 people who had given up on the game months ago. I tried to convince them for ages. they refused. The last trailer I showed them and they decided to give it a try. We where in LA and having a nice pre-party. they have left in deception and are gone. Simular wordings of dissapointment are used in LA right now (in the EU).

Well, that is because people are silly and refuse to accept the fact that the world does not revolves around them.

Anyone with any kind of logical thinking would have been fully aware that things might very well have gone wrong with something as big as this, and definitely wouldn’t start shouting about being lied to when there is about 9,5 hours left of the patch-day.

What a bag of nonsense. It has to do with the fact that it’s been around the same time for a year. People expect it on that time, they prepared for that they, they organized to meet before that time and now they have been waiting for + 6 hours and many had to log out by now.

It’s not because people are silly and refuse to accept the fact that the world does not revolves around them. It’s because Anet is silly.

lordkrall.7241:

Devata.6589:

They have been patching on the same time for over a year. You may expect them to launch on that same time..

No they haven’t.

They have never been on the same time actually.
The same general area of time, yes, but the exact same time? Nope. I don’t even think two patches have ever been released at the exact same time.

And to be fair they did tell us back during the “usual” release-time that it would be delayed.

yeah around the same time. 1 to 2 hours difference maybe. We are now 6 hours past that.

Why are there so many people in this thread saying these times are normal and have always been the case. Thats not true. They have been around the same time for almost a year and that would have been about 6 hours ago.

uknortherner.2670:

Draygo.9473:

All announced times are Pacific.

Anet launches the patch during the typical American workday on the day they announced it, so it will launch between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. pacific.

Indeed. This has always been the case. Why is the OP so surprised?

Patches have always been around the same time, somewhere about 6 hours ago.

Draygo.9473:

All announced times are Pacific.

Anet launches the patch during the typical American workday on the day they announced it, so it will launch between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. pacific.

They have been patching around the same time for over a year. You may expect them to launch on that same time..

clint.5681:

OP take a seat and chill. Its just a video game.

From wiki:
“A game is structured playing, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool.!”

This one should enjoy. Waiting for a patch many hours is not enjoyable.

mercury ranique.2170:

Dear Arenanet (and pls dont move this to the living world thread, this is bout the policy in general).

In mainland eaurope it is now 11 pm in the evening. Many people gathered for the new patch. Many people who have been gone for a long time have been waiting for this new patch.

You have hyped it up to the max, but for us (in our timeframe) you are not delivering.

I udnerstand why you can’t give a good estimate time about an update. But promising to blow up LA on the 18th means on the 18th and not on the 19th. you had a great change to get old players back but you blew it.

I know that asking for a response isn’t ok. But I do want express my hope that a dev is going to react. You have missed a big boat tonight, and my love for your game makes me sad.

Yeah we organized an event around this patch. We all gathered and have been waiting for 5 hours in one spot. But by now everybody left.

The whole guild managing tools are already a living hell and then you try to organize something where you are depending on Anet and they mess up again!

Sylv.5324:

Devata.6589:

timidobserver.7925:

Wow, some of you guys are really tagging the heck out of that cash shop. They are making an insane amount of money.

Not everybody is able to handle money. Anet uses some tactics to get people to buy gems. Make everything a grind to get people to buy gems and put items in the cash-shop temporary so they buy it before it’s gone, RNG for those with gambling problems.

Just marketing tricks and some people easily fall for it.

I doubt most of you complain about how people pay to go to a movie, a netflix sub, cable, or any other non-tangible expense.

I don’t pay for any of those beside netflix, so tossing a bit of money toward gems here and there is a much cheaper frivolity than a monthly cable bill. It supports a game that I like.

Don’t want to start the discussion all over again in this thread so I will keep it thort.

The problem I have with it is not that I don’t want to support a game.. I am asking for expansions and I would buy those.. now I am not paying anything so I am asking for a way to pay.

Problem is that the focus on the cash-shop has an influence on the game itself. You don’t just ‘support’ the game you change the game. They base there income on gems so the whole game then depends on that. That means they NEED to sell gems and that means they will have to find ways to get you to buy gems.

I already gave examples of making the game a gold grind and making items temporary. That are all elements I do not like about the game and are directly linked to that focus. Is that reason I don’t like it.

In normal life I would just as well look at what I am supporting and how.

I will leave it with this. This is not the thread to talk more about this. Want to chat more about it leave a comment on my thread here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/page/3#post3593248

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

Not playing it lot. Hoping for better times. Don’t spend, never have spend and never will spend a dime on gems because I don’t want to support the destruction of the game.

I do talk about more things but if it’s gem-store related I do post this indeed. It’s what I see as the biggest problem for the game. Not so much the love for the expansions but the dislike for the influence the focus on the cash-shop has. But I told you that before many times.

And I am not surprised you are one of the gem-buyers. Thats how they design the game, pay to have fun. And you fall for it.

However no worries. I have said what had to been said. I said it long enough and often enough. I will not be posting much more on new threads. Will mainly react on comment on my comment and I will keep an eye on the CDI.

@Vol
As you see, TChalla is also aware I do have those same statement for a longer time. It’s not that I now say this because I want to be negative about it so I now say higher numbers are bad. It’s simply something I have been saying for a long time as TChalla’s reactions proofs.

You totally misunderstood what Vol was saying. But whatever.

As far as me “falling for” buying gems because I happen to enjoy the game as it sits, you can think what you want about it. I don’t have a problem buying things like extra bank slots, the extra bag slot or extra character slots. It beats having to pay a monthly subscription fee and also beats having to pay $60 for an expansion. I buy what I want and don’t buy what I don’t want.

Well I am very happy for you. BTW for a B2P game (not for a sub game) I can live with alt slots and even bank slots I could sort of be oke with(not really but if that would be the only thing next to char slots and the other ‘out of game’ thinks like a name changer that I would not complain). As a matter of fact, in the first couple months I wanted to buy one gem-card for alts and maybe a bank but just as I planned to buy it (because I needed extra tabs) I noticed the direction GW2 was going in. It was then that I decided never to spend a dime in this shop even not for the items I do agree with (like char tabs).

Anyway, while you might be happy with it I’m not and I also told you it all depends on your play-style, what you like to do in the game. But thats something you don’t seem to be willing to understand. As you see in the comments just below my comment multiple people feel the same, it’s not just me.

Ashen.2907:

Devata.6589:

Thats how they design the game, pay to have fun. And you fall for it.

Paying for what you want and receive is not something to, “fall for.”

Its pretty sad when paying for something you want is portrayed as some sort of trick that you fall for. But hey, why should I fall for that whole, “pay to have,” a roof over my head, or, “pay to have,” food on the table, or, “pay to,” have a car to drive. Falling for that trick of not getting what I want for free is lame !

By the way, the only games out there that are not, “pay to have fun,” are those where the fun of the non payers is being subsidized by those who do pay.

Making the game a gold grind and then selling gold to provide a short cut is a trick Nothing more nothing less. Plus they take away part of the fun by making it grindy what fits with the “pay to have fun” where I of course talk about gem payments.

Making items temporary available creates a sense of urgency. Very old trick in the marketing business. So once again just a trick, nothing more and nothing less.

Of course it might be things that people want but at the same things people would maybe not buy Anet without using those tricks.

You don’t want so see, don’t like to know about it or maybe you fall for the tricks yourself and don’t want to admit that. All fine but doesn’t change the facts.

Velimere.7685:

Devata.6589:

There are a few of those items (themed as you name them) already in the game. For example the mini Cobalt Great Jungle Wurm Head is such an item and it’s not soul-bound. The sunless are.

Yeah… The Mini Cobalt Great Jungle Wurm Head is NOT something you equip unlike the Sunless weapons and the Living Story themed gathering tools.

Devata.6589:

It can be but does not have to be soul-bound. Just like pretty much any drop can be made soul-bound or not. There is n specific reason it has to be.

See above. While there may be no specific REASON, there IS a specific pattern.

Devata.6589:

Living story rewards are achievements, they are more linked to your story thats why they are soul-bound (your story). Thats something else. In my example I also talked about quest-rewards, those would indeed be soul-bound (your quest) but most of this sort rewards do not have to be soul-bound at all.

The problem is that it’s NOT something else. All of the themed gathering tools are based off of the Living Story and were/are made initially available with said Living Story. That’s DOUBLE the justification for them to be bound items as they are rightly so.

You’re making very vague blanket statements about “there being no reason” for such and “does not have to be” or what have you, but it’s very evident that ArenaNet is of the complete opposite opinion based upon their own given pattern for what they decide is bound and what isn’t.

Pff there is no reason they have to do that. Stands even if they would be following the line you say but they don’t. There are enough things not soul-bound with an themed.

You said that before I gave an example and suddenly it has to be equitable to follow your rule.

Well fine: Shard of the Deep.

timidobserver.7925:

Wow, some of you guys are really tagging the heck out of that cash shop. They are making an insane amount of money.

Not everybody is able to handle money. Anet uses some tactics to get people to buy gems. Make everything a grind to get people to buy gems and put items in the cash-shop temporary so they buy it before it’s gone, RNG for those with gambling problems.

Just marketing tricks and some people easily fall for it.

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

Fits with what many people say. The way Anet (or Ncsoft) is doing stuff now is great to squeeze out money in the short run but bad for the long run.

The rise in price will be because of people buying gems. This because they don’t want to miss temporary available items or don’t want to grind and so on.

However, at some point people will lose interest in it or get burned out by doing all the temporary stuff.. once they missed an item there is no need for a full collection anymore and buying items will also take away the fun of the game.

So then the gem sales will start to go down and people will start to leave.

Now imagine if they focused on expansions and so already had released a real expansions by now. Then they would have had a again some big sale numbers (maybe little less then the gem-sales, maybe not) but the game had to be less grindy to get people to buy gems, there would be no need for temporary stuff to get people to buy stuff, content would be of higher quality and so expansions in the future would likely also have high sales.

It will be really interesting what GW2 will do with the March patch and what the other MMO’s will do. GW2 did not really have any big other MMO to battle against but now a few big names will be released still I think EQN will be the biggest competitor for GW2 and thats still a year out.

I have to ask because I’m curious and don’t know when to shut up. Do you actually still play this game, and if so, why? Also, do you actually buy gems from the gem shop, and if so, why?

When I started reading this topic, my very first thought was that it was just a matter of time before you posted the same thing you post in every topic that might possible be even remotely linked to the cash shop. Thank you for not disappointing me.

I think anyone that reads the boards even semi-regularly understands your disdain for the cash shop and your overwhelming preference for expansions. We get it. We really do.

Having said that, kudos to NCSoft for making money and keeping me entertained. To celebrate, I might just have to go and buy… you guessed it… GEMS!

Not playing it lot. Hoping for better times. Don’t spend, never have spend and never will spend a dime on gems because I don’t want to support the destruction of the game.

I do talk about more things but if it’s gem-store related I do post this indeed. It’s what I see as the biggest problem for the game. Not so much the love for the expansions but the dislike for the influence the focus on the cash-shop has. But I told you that before many times.

And I am not surprised you are one of the gem-buyers. Thats how they design the game, pay to have fun. And you fall for it.

However no worries. I have said what had to been said. I said it long enough and often enough. I will not be posting much more on new threads. Will mainly react on comment on my comment and I will keep an eye on the CDI.

@Vol
As you see, TChalla is also aware I do have those same statement for a longer time. It’s not that I now say this because I want to be negative about it so I now say higher numbers are bad. It’s simply something I have been saying for a long time as TChalla’s reactions proofs.

Vol.7601:

^
Typical.

Anet loses money, people will say the game is dying
Anet makes money, people will point out it’s short-term and the game is going to die anyway

It’s a lose-lose on these forums.

Thats what I have been saying for a longer time. Not just here now because of those numbers.
Have a read: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/page/3#post3592184

Fits with what many people say. The way Anet (or Ncsoft) is doing stuff now is great to squeeze out money in the short run but bad for the long run.

The rise in price will be because of people buying gems. This because they don’t want to miss temporary available items or don’t want to grind and so on.

However, at some point people will lose interest in it or get burned out by doing all the temporary stuff.. once they missed an item there is no need for a full collection anymore and buying items will also take away the fun of the game.

So then the gem sales will start to go down and people will start to leave.

Now imagine if they focused on expansions and so already had released a real expansions by now. Then they would have had a again some big sale numbers (maybe little less then the gem-sales, maybe not) but the game had to be less grindy to get people to buy gems, there would be no need for temporary stuff to get people to buy stuff, content would be of higher quality and so expansions in the future would likely also have high sales.

It will be really interesting what GW2 will do with the March patch and what the other MMO’s will do. GW2 did not really have any big other MMO to battle against but now a few big names will be released still I think EQN will be the biggest competitor for GW2 and thats still a year out.

Velimere.7685:

I’m going to break this down a bit:

Devata.6589:

That might in some cases also be boring by itself (kill one type of mobs 1000 times) but I have fun in it because I am chasing that thing I want and every time have the feeling will it drop?

Fact is that if it was available in the game-world it would still also end up on the TP (probably a little more expensive) so you could still get it with the money you earned doing fractals. So in that way it would not interfere much with your game-play like it does now with ‘my’ game-play.

Right… so you can do the Karka train killing the same type of mob thousands of times with a chance for any precursor to drop. Say a precursor DOES drop: You can TP it and convert for more than enough gems for the new mining pick more than double over. Say it doesn’t drop: You can still sell the multitude of Karka Shells and Vials of Powerful Blood you’ll be stockpiling on the TP for gold to convert into gems.

Point in case, it’s still the same pie no matter which way you slice it. If it had its own specific in-game grind to acquire it, it’d probably be soulbound or account bound on acquire based on majority examples of other likewise THEMED items (Living Story equipment, Sunless weapons, etc), and that’d be far more limiting than what you’re trying to argue. Heck, you can’t be certain you’d even like the grind!

As for having it as a random drop like the Permanent Bank Access Express, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever given that is, in fact, a THEMED item.

If I farm something to sell the drops I am grinding gold not going for the specific item.

It’s something completely else then going into the world and going for items you want (having to do different content for every item).

There are a few of those items (themed as you name them) already in the game. For example the mini Cobalt Great Jungle Wurm Head is such an item and it’s not soul-bound. The sunless are. It can be but does not have to be soul-bound. Just like pretty much any drop can be made soul-bound or not. There is n specific reason it has to be.

Living story rewards are achievements, they are more linked to your story thats why they are soul-bound (your story). Thats something else. In my example I also talked about quest-rewards, those would indeed be soul-bound (your quest) but most of this sort rewards do not have to be soul-bound at all.

awse.6780:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E52-uUZRdc

How do u like?! my new way to make gold

Would be better if the game would be a bit less gold driven.

Velimere.7685:

Devata.6589:

Velimere.7685:

ANet doesn’t need to respond to this because nothing they ever put in their gem store will ever be P2W as long as gold can be converted into gems. If I don’t want to spend X amount of real-world currency to obtain 1,000 gems in order to acquire the new mining pick, I can just convert a sum of my copious amount of stupidly easy to amass gold into gems to get it.

Haha yeah nothing is P2W because you can convert gold to gems. Of course. But everything is a gold-grind. That is already the case.

You know in most games that are very infamous for P2W you can earn the items also in-game. It usually just takes a long boring grind.

You say boring, but I thoroughly enjoy perfecting my speed and Fractal runs with my friends, and earn a lot of gold in the process. I average about 2 hours of gaming a day in GW2, and I’ve spent over 800 gold since December (and I’ll be spending another 200 gold this week to craft my Light of Dwayna). If anything, it’s far too easy to come by in this game, especially when you take advantage of converting all of the various currencies into gold as well. I mean what else am I supposed to do with all of these dungeon tokens but make more gold out of them? Haha.

Well for some people it isn’t. For some it is. I like to go into the world to get an item I like. That might in some cases also be boring by itself (kill one type of mobs 1000 times) but I have fun in it because I am chasing that thing I want and every time have the feeling will it drop?

That something many people have. Just like you might have fun doing fractals over and over again. Current problem is that for most fluff stuff I can’t hunt it down in the world but I should buy it with gold so then I do stuff just to make gold what is boring for me, and for the many people that complain about grind. But it’s maybe not for you.

Like I said before.. It really depends on your personal game-play. What you like best.

Fact is that if it was available in the game-world it would still also end up on the TP (probably a little more expensive) so you could still get it with the money you earned doing fractals. So in that way it would not interfere much with your game-play like it does now with ‘my’ game-play.

whyme.3281:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Personally I think a CDI on the BLT would be good to do at some point.

Chris

Sounds nice, but there are a lot more important things that need to be discussed, that effect the core (conditions, class mechanic, mob AI,….) that shuold be adressed before BLT.
The player unl34shed made a list on top of this side.

Well if you look at the complains the most are related to temporary content (that has sort of been discussed (haven’t seen improvements there, still temporary achievements grinds, but discussed nonetheless) and another one is grind and grind is imho linked to the cash-shop.

Yes there are many other things going on but I don’t think they are the biggest or most important plus they are usually very detailed, hitting one specific thing while cash-shop or and grind hits many things at one.

Cash-shop can also be put against expansion so it really hits a lot.

But thats my 5 cents.

Palador.2170:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Palador.2170:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Are we going down this path again Gidorah?

Chris

Nah. By now, nobody actually expects you guys to talk with us about it.

But even if you did, an entire CDI on it would be overkill.

Personally I think a CDI on the BLT would be good to do at some point.

Chris

On the BLT in general? Yes, good idea.

On the pick itself in specific? Too late, and serious overkill.

To be entirely honest, though, the BLT/Gem shop is one of those places where it feels like we’ve been talking to a wall. It may not be the biggest, most obstructing wall in the game, but it’s still a wall. A two-way conversation on it is LONG overdue.

I would say how a focus on the cash-shop effects the game. Indeed not on something specific as the pick that would maybe be an example in the discussion but not the subject itself.

Velimere.7685:

ANet doesn’t need to respond to this because nothing they ever put in their gem store will ever be P2W as long as gold can be converted into gems. If I don’t want to spend X amount of real-world currency to obtain 1,000 gems in order to acquire the new mining pick, I can just convert a sum of my copious amount of stupidly easy to amass gold into gems to get it.

Haha yeah nothing is P2W because you can convert gold to gems. Of course. But everything is a gold-grind. That is already the case.

You know in most games that are very infamous for P2W you can earn the items also in-game. It usually just takes a long boring grind.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

We can discuss any part of the game that is already live.

Chris

Including lets say, if a focus on micro-transactions is the way to go or how a focus on expansions sales might be a better (or not) idea?

I know thats a subject that Anet never seems to touch in the forums but for me the way to focus on the cash-shop effects the game is one of my main ‘problems’ with the game. Because monetization is mainly of the sort of things I would love to get in the game-world. What is not not really possible except for grinding gold.

morrolan.9608:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Lol, people with 2000 hours still don’t have one, let alone “their precursor” (aka one they’d want).

If it isn’t one they want most are closely the same cost (expect underwater ones) they can just sell it and then buy the one they want. Problem Solved

You’re avoiding the main issue, which is having no precursor at all drop despite over 2000 hours played.

Well you can grind gold and buy it. Need less then 2000 hours of grinding gold to buy it.
Sarcasm here.

Zero Day.2594:

:| Compared to MapleStory up to patch 0.37 (quit after)… yeah not that bad…

Do you know who was the monetization manager (or whatever they called it there) for MapleStory? You know who is the monetization manager for GW2?

phys.7689:

Devata.6589:

Ashabhi.1365:

I have been playing this game from headstart (and beta before that.) I have at least 2K hours (probably more) in-game. I have 2 80’s and 6 other characters ranging in level from 20-65. I could have had more 80’s, but I was having way too much fun with the ones I already have. I am maxed in most of the crafting (still need huntsman and tailoring) and I have played every profession at least once. I think my experience in game is pretty well rounded.

I have formed an opinion about GW2 RNG and for better or worse, here it is:

Many people still have the idea that the more you try, the more likely it is that you will get it. In reality, it is not like that at all. If you have a 1 in 10,000 chance to get a particular item, it means that the chances of getting that particular item is the same on the 10,000th time you try as it they are on the first. This is why your friend can get a precursor in one try while you have to spend untold amounts of gold in the MF and still not get it.

The main problem is that the chances need to be tweaked. Not enough to ruin the already inflated economy, but enough so that there is a reasonable chance.

I would be much more willing to part with some of my gold if I knew the exact odds.

Right now, I might as well be playing Powerball (actual odds from their website are 1 in 175,223,510.) Unfortunately, it cost more than a couple bucks (gold) to play the precursor lottery.

In my case, getting a precursor is not something I am actively pursuing. If I have a couple extra things, I’ll toss them into the MF and see what happens, but there are way too many other pursuits that interest me more.

Of course every time you try again you have a 1/10,000 chance. However if you do it twice you changes of getting it are 2 times 1/10.000 because you did it twice, not because the second time there is a bigger change but because you did it 2 times. That is just math.

Anyway, the point is also.. is it fun to grind gold and get it, is it fun the toss things into the MF? Or is it more fun to activly hunt down the item without first grinding.

Of course you can get money while doing stuff you like but for many people hunting down those items is what they like. That is there end-content.

i think this is the biggest flaw with dev strategy, they build their reward systems around the economy, and not the gameplay. They expect people to get gold to buy what they want, which leads to gold hunting being the main game mode. Combine this with the most profitable tasks are going to be the easy/repetitive ones. It made sense in theory, make it so all tasks are equally rewarding and make it so few things are directly huntable, this way people trade get gold and buy what they want doing anything. However since it boils down to gold, whatever gets the most gold is the best answer, hence people work on whatever is current best gold farm, and have to buy what they want. essentially work for a paycheck, buy your item. Not really that adventurous.

They didnt realize that a great many people playing rpg/adventure games like to hunt/aim for/obtain items/skills etc.

Well they need to sell gems and you can buy gold for gems so this is also a very likely reason to make the game that way.

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Another great feature would be the ability to see which members in a guild are contributing the most influence overall, and how much time they’ve spent representing your guild. I’m no guild leader, but I think those might be useful features to have.

Those are also in the list of suggestions:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-System-Improvements-Suggestions/first#post3467673

Ashabhi.1365:

I have been playing this game from headstart (and beta before that.) I have at least 2K hours (probably more) in-game. I have 2 80’s and 6 other characters ranging in level from 20-65. I could have had more 80’s, but I was having way too much fun with the ones I already have. I am maxed in most of the crafting (still need huntsman and tailoring) and I have played every profession at least once. I think my experience in game is pretty well rounded.

I have formed an opinion about GW2 RNG and for better or worse, here it is:

Many people still have the idea that the more you try, the more likely it is that you will get it. In reality, it is not like that at all. If you have a 1 in 10,000 chance to get a particular item, it means that the chances of getting that particular item is the same on the 10,000th time you try as it they are on the first. This is why your friend can get a precursor in one try while you have to spend untold amounts of gold in the MF and still not get it.

The main problem is that the chances need to be tweaked. Not enough to ruin the already inflated economy, but enough so that there is a reasonable chance.

I would be much more willing to part with some of my gold if I knew the exact odds.

Right now, I might as well be playing Powerball (actual odds from their website are 1 in 175,223,510.) Unfortunately, it cost more than a couple bucks (gold) to play the precursor lottery.

In my case, getting a precursor is not something I am actively pursuing. If I have a couple extra things, I’ll toss them into the MF and see what happens, but there are way too many other pursuits that interest me more.

Of course every time you try again you have a 1/10,000 chance. However if you do it twice you changes of getting it are 2 times 1/10.000 because you did it twice, not because the second time there is a bigger change but because you did it 2 times. That is just math.

Anyway, the point is also.. is it fun to grind gold and get it, is it fun the toss things into the MF? Or is it more fun to activly hunt down the item without first grinding.

Of course you can get money while doing stuff you like but for many people hunting down those items is what they like. That is there end-content.

Duran.3196:

For reasons (others already mentioned) grind and RNG is horrible in this game, cause
it’s an aimless grind.
You just grind Gold in order to get what you want, you cant really “farm” something, cause everything drops anywhere and yet nowhere.
The most secure income is running around in a Champ train, cause there at least you get a guaranteed yield of about 5-7g/hour, though this is insanely stupid.

Crafting is something they could have left out, it feels like “Ohhh every MMO nowadays has a crafting system …. so implement some just for the hell of it”
GW1 had none, never missed it.

The biggest mistake was, that Anet themselfes became gold sellers (I understand why they did it, but still was a mistake) cause the ingame / realmoney connenction implies that drop rates have to be low.
Drops where much better over a year ago.

And btw I played a lot of MMORPGS starting with UO, which is a lot more hard core than nowaday-MMOs and a lot more Sandbox-like.

Ah and considering Tequatl, if you do an organized Tequatl run you have to be on the server an hour before the event begins, else you are on overFLAW and fail.
And if you defeat him, you get completely random stuff.
Okay maybe I shouldnt complain about drop rates there, cause i got 2 ascended weapon boxes there (in around 50 kills), of course both with stats so useless, that i had rather gotten a rare item, which would at least be 25s at TP.

Ah and before I forget it, the funny thing is, the most “profitable” way to play the game is not playing the game at all, it is playing with the TP, somethings imbalanced there.
Okay even more effective is going to work, earn some real money, and then convert to gems.

I agree. It’s just more fun to farm for something specific then to grind gold to buy what you want.

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I love what they did with the Marionette: give key-fragments for participating in the event and combine those to keys which open various chests. It’s really fun to open those chests again and again and again, even though it’s mostly greens.

What I’d like to see as a further evolution of this: combine all the 5 keys to open a new chest which has at least a guaranteed rare and a good shot at (some) exotics (+ a really good chance for something non-combaty – like the Mini)

This is exactly what I consider boring. It’ nearly the same as grinding gold and then buying it (or in your example buying the change to get it). It’s a currency grind and the key-fragments are the currency.

It’s not bad to have something like that as an ‘extra’ (without the change part) so you know that when you do it you will always get rewarded for it (like the tokens in dungeons) but at the same time there should also be some unique drops that are not related to a currency.

But then again, I don’t like how the world-bosses work. To much depended on people you don’t know and the kitten timer of 2 hours. Better make it a instance raid dungeon.
That makes it more tactical organized play in stead of luck to be with a good group of players. But of-course the marionette would also drops those things when just participating so thats a little different.

Unique drops not related to currency : Teq weapons (marionette does not have unique due to not being permanent)

Those tactical raids are in other games so if you want them go play them. GW2 so far has been trying things that have not been tried really before (a few things have been tried before, but were not as developed). Such as the no quest system where everything relies on the events. Some people like this system and some didn’t cause they didn’t have a clue what to do. From what I seen this is also causing issue of end-game. Without quests to guide people in end-game they don’t have a clue what to do. Every other game that has an end-game its either a gear-treadmill, repetitive quests, PvP, Raids (which are repetitive quests and gear treadmill mostly), minigames, etc. If i missed something that other end-games have in other games do tell.

I personally like the event system cause I do what I want to do in the end-game not what I am directed to do.

Yeah I did point out that Teq also had a mini and it indeed also has some other specific drops. There are a few specific drops in the game. Sadly most are behind content that people farm anyway (so they fill the TP making it once again easier to grind gold to buy them, Yesterday I did buy a unique weapon drop from it for 1,5 gold) and like I said I don’t really like the world boss system simply because it does not work very well, in a way is exactly the same as those raid bosses in other games but here you are always forced to use pugs. Thats really the only difference.

“If i missed something that other end-games have in other games do tell.”
Going into the world to collect things you like. Like cosmetics and mini’s. Having crafts that take very long. Like fun-crafts. I did tell you this before.

Collecting those cosmetics and mini’s and recipe’s for the craft can send you all over the map letting you do a lot of content. That can be enough to keep you busy for a year maybe 2 years.

I like the event-system as well but would also think traditional quest would go good together with them.

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Like I said before, many of the mats you don’t get by playing normal and you even don’t get by farming the mats because you can’t just farm them.

Btw, if the legendary where the only weapons / skin that would require this much of grind I would not mind. It’s the fact that a lot requires a grind.

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

Neural.1824:

Suddenflame.2601:

~

I’m not really in the mood to answer this but I will try to do so clearly. First, it’s clear that you are the type who will never be shown any other way than what you think is true. That much is obvious from your comments on this and other threads where you are given plenty of evidence contrary to your statements but you continually argue semantics.

Thats not completely true. He already agreed in this topic that indeed there is a lot of grind while his OP was about exactly the opposite.

However it’s now about if grind is worse then the possible ‘fragmentation’ expansions would give and that grind has been there since the beginning (still fail to see how that makes it better). But he did agree that indeed there was a lot of grind. So I can’t say he does not want to see anything else that is original idea.

A lot of grind for cosmetics as intended and told there would be. Grind for ascended is not bad at all which is the point your trying to hijack the thread for your personal agenda of trying to change the entire game that was in place from the start. BiS grind is what I am talking about and its not that bad.

Also, Legendaries do not stick out when every time i go into an FOTM there is always at least 1 or more people with a legendary. Some actually have 4 legendaries. Other weapons are a lot less common and stick out more than a legendary now. Such as some of the Mystic Forge weapons. There is actually threads about one of the weapons right now that requires hard to get materials.

Lol, there are many people complaining about how grindy GW2 is. You make a thread about it saying it’s not grindy. I show that it is very much a gold grind for many players (you even had to agree) and then you say I hijack the thread for my personal agenda and try to change the entire game.

All I did was point out that in many ways it is very grindy. Complaining about ascended grind I leave to other people because thats not something I care much for myself.

Also you say again that Anet said this would be grindy. No they did not say it would be an endless grind of temporary achievements and gold gold lots of gold to get your cosmetics. I am not asking to get all cosmetics just handed to me, just don’t want the gold-grind.

That you can’t understand that people have different things they like and so the grind-problem is not only restricted to your personal game-play (stats) might be but then you should not complain that people complain about grind because there is a lot of grind.

Legendaries then, yes there are many legendaries these days but whats your point? I never said anything about them not being in the game, I said it was all gold grind. Most people who have a legendary did not farm the needed mats, they had to grind gold to buy the mats (or buy gold with money). So it was very much a grind.

I want to change the whole game? I want to see the grind go yes. Like the many people complaining about grind. You know all those complains about grind that triggered you to create this thread.

Also about you saying I want to change the game because I want expansion-based model and that would split the community.
Have a read:
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/15/guild-wars-2-to-avoid-retail-mmo-expansion-model/
Here they talk about your fragmentation. Thats about standalone expansion model. Not about the normal expansions.

And here:
http://www.videogamer.com/news/guild_wars_2_expansions_a_sure_thing_says_arenanet_2.html
They say they want expansions and “Guild Wars 2, the upcoming MMORPG from ArenaNet, will be supported with retail expansions, design lead Eric Flannum has confirmed to VideoGamer.com. ”.
As you can see yes they would have mico-transaction to also generate income in-between expansions (thats not something I ever denied, I only said there focus to generate income should be expansions so the push towards the cash-shop needed to be lees and there would be less need to make it this grindy) but they would also want to use expansions to keep supporting the game.

So your whole idea that I want to change the game to a game that is based on expansions while it was never planned to have expansions is nonsense. They did plan that but seem to have shifted away from it.

Coopziana.1802:

Devata.6589:

This is a thread created based on the big guild thread in the old suggestions section. That was over a year old.:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-System-Improvements-Suggestions/first#post3467673

The “Last online” option is in that list. Would not be enough however, also need last representing and best would even be a percentage of representing because people can switch between guilds.

Those things are also all in that list so it’s better to keep it in one place in stead of spreading it out over multiple threads.
However it’s a suggestion done more then a year ago, it’s not much work to implement and still is not here so it looks like ArenaNet just don’t care about these sort of things. Or at least is has the lowest possible priority.

Thanks. As i said in the OP. It has been suggested before… yet still nothing done about it.

In all honesty I really don’t care about “non-representers” All i want to know is if that player is still active or not. They can represent as many guilds as they like, at least I can see if they are representing or not in the guild roster so that’s not really broken so doesn’t need fixing, so the Percentage thing is a bit pointless too.

Personally my guild has a “Must Represent at all times” rule. So I just kick people who don’t represent anyway as we gain nothing from them and they gain nothing from us so they are just dead weight. Main problem is that we can’t even tell if they have been online in the past 6-months… it’s just mind blowingly incredible that ANET have still neglected this simple addition to the Guild panel.

Seriously, pay for my flight over there and I’ll personally come and add in the code myself… That is how much I want it! (I don’t know what code they use and have no clue how to code games… I would Learn on the plane ride over there lol)

When I read your first alinea I was like “they probably have a must represent rule” and then you confirmed that.
Yeah when you have a rule like that it’s not problem, you don’t need a last represented but if you allow people to represent multiple guilds (Pretty much what Anet wanted) then you really need something like last represent and best even percentage because you never know if a person never represent or only not around the times you are most on-line. Exactly the same problem you have with off-line people now with no “last online” option.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

I’d rather think world-wide drop would be considerably better than “go to this one postage-stamp of land and camp/farm it”. Especially for a persistent world like GW2 is.

Why? It means people will go into the world doing things collecting them (what I like to do) and they are all in different spots so you can get people all over the place. I would say only for that reason aslone it’s great. It would also remove the need to grind gold.

(Of course any mmo world will get empties after some time, not saying this would completely stop that.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

No. You’re not remembering quite accurately. There was a fraction of minis which were available as drops or chest loot (Mallyx, Peacekeeper, Salma, Black Moa Chick) but there were also several promotional ones which were radically overpriced most times (Kuunvang, Varesh, Grey Giant, etc).

Yeah promotional ones I do not like so much.. Well I don’t mind if the have like 5 mini’s they only give out at game-shows or something but it should stay limited.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

But it’s not even just minis which hit that spot of “potentially very expensive”. There were specific skins which only dropped out of dungeons and only out of specific ones. The Icy Dragon Sword (palette swap of Fiery Dragon Sword) was only available off one of approximately 20 monsters in a far corner of a zone in the Shiverpeak Mountains. There was also the Totem Axe and Fan (focus) in another area, but they were less desirable since they were unique items with specific stats. (Totem Axe was more wanted due to the modifiers.)

When I talk about mini’s you can replace that with skins, colors, whatever, just ‘fun’ items.

That something is expensive is not the problem IF you can also go for it ingame.
“There were specific skins which only dropped out of dungeons and only out of specific ones. "

Yeah that is what I mean with dropping in specific places. That is exactly what I consider fun. Every time you do that dungeon the feeling of will it drop?? And then when it drops that epic feeling that it dropped. Now I don’t even have incentive to do a dungeon. For gold maybe? But thats boring imho..

Having stuff available like that is exactly what I like. For sure those sort of mini’s will be expensive on the TP but at least there is a way to go for them in the game-world and for those who prefer grinding gold that is still an option.

The examples what you describe here is exactly what I mean when I say “in specific places”and what I consider fun.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So, it’s been done before, what you’ve been talking about as open-world loot in a specific place. It is still done now (Final Rest, Cobalt, and many others). It’s just a problem for a persistent world since it breeds farming grounds where more people gravitate rather than spread out and fill areas.

It’s not open-world loot in specific places it’s loot in specific places or open world loot (2 different things). But it’s all in the game-world.

Final Rest is an example of a drop in a specific spot the way I like it. If you want that you can farm shadow behemoth. Small problem there is that it’s time-gated and thats is something so many people do that the TP still gets overflowed with that skin but yeah thats an example of a drop in a specific place. Cobalt is an example of how I would not like it. That is an world drop loot. Drops from many chesses all over the world. If you want that there is not one specific way to go for it but at the same time because it’s all over the place (while being a very rare drop) many people who are not interested in it get it anyway so there will be many of them on the TP, So if you want that the best way to get it is by grinding gold.

Having many items in the world like Final Rest that would be fun.. also in places that are not so obviously things people would just farm like a world boss.

Like if the JP in Kessex Hills has the possibility to drop a bear mini and thats the only place where it can drop, while the Destroyer Harpy’s nearby have the change to drop a special orange color that does not drop anywhere else. Meanwhile for rangers there might be special looking pets they can get and so on and so on. Man I would have fun going all over the world collecting that stuff I want or completing a collection of mini’s. It’s to bad GW2 does not also have the more traditional quest mixed in because those could also be used for special rewards.

Of course there will always be farming grounds, but this would not increase that. Lets say people all started to farm the orange dye because it’s expensive then very fast the price of it will drop so it would not be ideal to all farm in groups. They will find places where they can grind for sure but specific drops would not increase farming grounds.

This is a thread created based on the big guild thread in the old suggestions section. That was over a year old.:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-System-Improvements-Suggestions/first#post3467673

The “Last online” option is in that list. Would not be enough however, also need last representing and best would even be a percentage of representing because people can switch between guilds.

Those things are also all in that list so it’s better to keep it in one place in stead of spreading it out over multiple threads.
However it’s a suggestion done more then a year ago, it’s not much work to implement and still is not here so it looks like ArenaNet just don’t care about these sort of things. Or at least is has the lowest possible priority.

BeastlySerenity.2305:

I recently started playing GW2 over the last week from a break of over a year, and I do admit I was surprised when I saw that there were still no mounts in this game.

I know that some people will argue that there is no need for mounts when you can port from place to place.

But I think the developers are missing out big time, on a huge potential for profits for themselves. Great new content for the players, and overall a great new incentive that will increase the sales of the game.

I am certain that selling unique mounts for gems would be the #1 best seller in the gem store.

The ideas below are just a few off the top of my head that would make mounts fun & useful for both the player and developer.
-Pay gems to buy the rarest.
-When you ride them for a few seconds have them buff you.
-Make some of them fly. That’s right, make them fly.
-Customize your mounts with Dye, Armor, and a New craft Breeding.
-New Mount related Craftsmanship.
-End Game Achievements to earn them. (Dungeons, Raids or Crafting)
-More incentives for players to keep playing.
-Aesthetically more pleasing to the eye than just running on two legs.

There are a lot more reasons for mounts to be implemented, but those were just a few.

Now hear me out on this, because I haven’t seen this next part done in an MMO before.

Breeding for Mounts

What if having two of one species of mount could unlock a Breeding craft that anyone could take up in addition to their current crafts.

Then with enough time and skill, breeders could create unique mini’s and unique colored mounts they could keep for themselves or sell to other players.

They would use dye and food crafted in cooking to influence the color of their mounts in the breeding craft. Being able to customize mounts with armor, and breeding would would add a unique feature to Guild Wars 2 that would pull in more players.
There are really so many ideas that can be implemented to a system that uses mounts.

I think it’s about time for ArenaNet to consider it.

Yeah why would we put them in the game-world. Having fun going collect them.
No lets do the same as with the mini’s. Throw them in the cash-shop.
Sarcasm here.

Mounts yes, in the cash-shop no. Put them in the game-world so we have something to do.. going into the world to collect them, find rare ones and so on.

Want to make money? Release a good expansion.

The breeding craft is something I suggested in the Horizontal progression CDI thread and Chris said it was interesting and would not forget about it. Same with other fun-crafts.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Glacial Stones, Destroyer Cores, Golden Rin Relics, Diessa Chalices, Ectoplasm, and Obsidian Shards all were items which were world drops. Some of them only available in one location and in one method alone of dropping. In the case of Golden Rin Relics and Diessa Chalices, I am understanding they dropped in the SAME place but under different circumstances.

Will not go into everything because it’s to off-topic but I have a feeling you not 100% understand me. Yes there was gold-grind but at the same time usually you could go for specific items or mats. I talked about world loot drops and you give this example (thats why I think you misunderstood me). But thats exactly how I expect it to be. It’s not a world loot drop. It’s in one location that usually also means the drop change is a little higher (but only in that location). So people can go to that location and farm it.

If I remember correct you would get many mini’s in specific location or by doing specific content. But the birthday ones indeed required trading or gold-grind but at least they would stay available. The ones temporary available where much lower.

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

To bad that you have to turn to plain lying here, the conversation was pretty well until here. About them saying it was knows that the cash-shop had a focus (nonsense) and that there was no focus on expansions.. you even said you would not expect an expansion.. Funny because while After release they said they MIGHT never get an expansion that was not knows and they still haven’t said they will not use expansions. So there has never been and still is no reason for you to expect you could buy the game and then play on forever.
Here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack this is the first time they said they might never get an expansion. 3 July 2013 5 months after release.

By the way, calling me a liar is bad form. Look here and look at the date.

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/news-mmo/guild-wars-2-no-expansions.html

Your move.

Thats about the “standalone expansion model” I knew that and was not expecting that in GW2, I was expecting normal expansions.

The part of no retail expansions is what the writer makes of it but it’s not what Eric Flannum says, Eric Flannum even says the cash-shop will be similar to GW1’s.

Here is an article that is about the same subject as yours:
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/15/guild-wars-2-to-avoid-retail-mmo-expansion-model/
Read the update! The interviewer in your article made that same mistake.

In this interview is being said what I also expected: http://www.videogamer.com/news/guild_wars_2_expansions_a_sure_thing_says_arenanet_2.html
Yes they will have an cash-shop to generate income but “the upcoming MMORPG from ArenaNet, will be supported with retail expansions, design lead Eric Flannum has confirmed to VideoGamer.com.” and “We support ourselves with micro-transactions and expansions. So we’ll have retail expansions for sure,”.

SO yes I was expecting a cash-shop and I expected them to try and earn money that way for future development but I was also expecting them to mainly support the game by expansions.

Can we now leave this discussion alone or move more on-topic again.

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

snip

You completely miss the point. I don’t consider what I do grinding for gold. I consider what I do getting gold for simply doing what I want to do. The gold is simply a bonus for me, and I can use that gold to do what I want to do with it. It’s not grinding. It’s playing the game. I’m not in a hurry for the gold. It just shows up.

In other words, I’m enjoying the game the way it was intended to be enjoyed. The only grind you have is what you make of it. Pretty much every activity in the game gets you gold. There are several modes to gain that gold. Choose one, get the gold and buy what you want. I don’t understand why being pigeon-holed into a style of play is better form.

I know what you mean but as soon as you do it to get gold it becomes grinding and we where talking about how to get an item I think. If you are just doing it for fun and you earn money along the way no then it’s not grinding. I get that.

Again, it’s not being pigeon-holed into a style of play because you can still get it with gold. But if you like to go for items that way.. if that is your preferred game-play (it isn’t yours it is mine) then you are not being pigeon-holed into something you do what you like.

You like to do some things and those things might get you some money. What I like to do is going for those items.

I really leave it by that. It’s to detailed into game-play styles and because of that it’s getting off topic. Let them go on about the Watchwork Pick itself.

TChalla.7146:

I don’t particularly care what you call it. Farming or grinding. For me, if I have to fight the same thing over and over again for the chance to get a specific item, I consider it a grind. You’re arguing verbiage.

That was a 9 words sentence just so you know why I would be talking about farming in the rest of the comment not grinding. Because it’s defined different. Nothing more nothing less.

TChalla.7146:

If you are, in fact, talking about expansion style of a game, then what you are looking for does greatly impact me. I don’t want to pay for an expansion. I want to pay for those little convenience items as I go. I don’t want to feel compelled to shell out $60 to gain access to a new area, new class, new levels (talk about Pay to Win), etc. I don’t wish to feel pigeonholes into having to buy something just to continue playing the game. Right now I can pay for what I want and don’t have to pay for things I don’t want. Your idea takes that away.

I was referring to what you said about how you like to do a specific things to grind gold and how the ability to farm the item itself would change your game-play. It doesn’t. Now you talk about the expansion-based model. Yes if you are not willing to pay for a chunk of content / an expansion that does effect you indeed.
My idea of course does not completely take that away. You can still play the game and the game will likely even get things added you like. But you have no access to some of the those new things. Unless you are willing to pay for that expansion. Thats true.

TChalla.7146:

The gem shop style was a known function of the game before the game was playable. It was also said that box expansions were not their focus. If that is your style of play, then you bought this game knowing it wasn’t what you wanted. Changing the game to fit your wants would be a bad idea for those of us that bought the game knowing that they’d never have to buy another box to continue playing the game.

The gem-shop was known, just as they said they would have expansions (now they say, maybe, maybe not). The focus on it or like you say the idea that box expansions would have no focus was not said! They promoted the game as B2P not as micro-transaction based. It’s B2P + micro-transactions based and mainly micro-transaction based. Looking at GW1 a focus on expansion was a very logical thing to expect.
It’s exactly this reason I did get interested in GW2.

To bad that you have to turn to plain lying here, the conversation was pretty well until here. About them saying it was knows that the cash-shop had a focus (nonsense) and that there was no focus on expansions.. you even said you would not expect an expansion.. Funny because while After release they said they MIGHT never get an expansion that was not knows and they still haven’t said they will not use expansions. So there has never been and still is no reason for you to expect you could buy the game and then play on forever.
Here http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack this is the first time they said they might never get an expansion. 3 July 2013 5 months after release.

TChalla.7146:

I like the cash shop. I have no problem with it, and I don’t view it negatively at all. I don’t have a problem with being able to get what I want using gold as the common currency. I actually like the fact that I can go out and find stuff that I don’t really want, sell those items for gold, and use that gold to buy what I do want.

Thats nice for you but thats not so for everybody and if you have a look on the forums or ingame there are a lot of complains about grind. Grind and temporary content seem to be the 2 biggest issue people keep bringing up.

TChalla.7146:

At the end of the day, you are merely arguing how the gem show doesn’t work for you. It has nothing to do with how it doesn’t work in general. Since there are a multitude of games out there that use a cash shop, and most of these other games offer items that are much more necessary than GW2, GW2 does a great job with their cash shop.

I say how the focus on the cash-shop does work in general and how it does effect me. Of course it depends on your game-play how it effects you. The question if other cash-shops are worse or not is not really interesting, that will not change the way this one works.

TChalla.7146:

Devata.6589:

chemiclord.3978:

Then there is no problem with a gem store, because the quality will come through their updates.

Again, the “problem” is not the gem store. The problem is that you don’t think the quality of the content is there. That quality will not magically appear with a change in revenue stream except in your own head.

The “problem” is you have a bias towards boxed expansions, and it’s tainting your judgement of anything that does meet your narrow wants.

The quality of a product. I am mainly talking about game-play elements. Define quality?
There is a gold-grind in this game. The gold-grind helps to generate income by the cash-shop because people are then more likely to buy gold.

Most mini’s are in the cash-shop that means they are not in the game-world. So the game-play element of collecting mini’s in the world is gone because of that.

Want to get them anyway, there is the gold-grind again.

Same for many skins or dye-colors.. Why are they mainly general drops of unidentified dyes? Why not put a specific color in a specific place so people can do that content to hunt down that color? Maybe because then people can get colors they like that way? Now the best way to get the color you want is again grinding gold. So gold is everything and that is important for the cash-shop.

There are some specific colors available.. in the cash-shop. Want them? Grind gold or buy it with cash.

You pretty much have to be blind to not see the link.

If i’m ‘bias’ towards boxed expansions then thats because of you see these sort of things in micro-transaction focused games. I don’t want it just for the fun of having that. I want that because of these sort of things.

Anyway, try to insult as much as you want. The fact that you are now coming with these sort of things not trying to disprove what I say about missing game-play elements and gold-grind (can’t really disprove it, it’s there) proves enough by itself.

And no we can’t know for sure that it would stop without because nobody can look in the future. But now they are pretty much forced to do these sort of things and that would be gone. So maybe if they are a company that wants to deliver a great game then it will change. I guess I still have that much of trust in them. You don’t it seems.

Here’s what I think you’re overlooking. You complain about having to “grind for gold.” However, what you’re asking for instead is to have to “grind for items.”

The benefit of having to “grind for gold” is that one can do it by playing in whatever they want to play. If, for example, I want one of the cash shop minis, I can actually PvP enough, or WvW enough, or farm mats enough, or whatever I chose as my gold-making method to obtain that mini.

Grinding for an item forces players to play in a style they might not like just to obtain that item.

I’ll take grinding for gold any day of the week, since I can do it while simply playing the game.

As an example, while the Wintersday Festival was going on, II made well over 100 gold with my level 50 character in two weeks by doing nothing but play in the Wintersday Mayhem game. I was doing what I wanted when I wanted to do it, and I benefitted monetarily for it. With that money, I was able to get both of my professions up to 400 and still have money left over.

When you go for an item it’s called farming. But indeed what I say is a change from having to grind for gold to ‘farming’ for the item. When it’s an absolute drop it’s not farming but in cases it requires multiple go’s then yes it’s farming.

What you are missing here is that exactly that is what I like to do. Just like you like to do Wintersday Mayhem I like to go into the world to get (or farm) those items.

However the idea that in my case it would not allow you to do what you want to do and grind gold that way is not correct.

As long as the items are not account bound (some will be many won’t be.. thats already the case) they will end up on the trading post so you can still buy them with the gold you did grind while doing Wintersday Mayhem (or whatever way you like to grind the gold).

What I want would not take that option (your preferred game-play) away from you. The way it is now does take my game-play away from me (and people like me).