Guild Wars 2

choovanski.5462:

DrDivine.5378:

Kuya.6495:

DrDivine.5378:

If you want to bring ranks into it I’m legendary so knock yourself out lol

Oops youre a 1400 low gold rating. That’s a blatant lie. Ouch public ratings telling it like it is.

Obviously his alt account is in Legendary, duh :P

Oh yeah totally not legendary :o, these back pieces come from bronze

You’re Joking, right?

Actually no, I’m not lol feel free to correct me, these wings must be from bronze but what do I know right?

wings = everything i say is correct

Says person is not legendary and says they’re a liar, person shows item only attainable by legendary rank, gets mad

Yeah, sounds about right.

Kuya.6495:

DrDivine.5378:

If you want to bring ranks into it I’m legendary so knock yourself out lol

Oops youre a 1400 low gold rating. That’s a blatant lie. Ouch public ratings telling it like it is.

Obviously his alt account is in Legendary, duh :P

Oh yeah totally not legendary :o, these back pieces come from bronze

You’re Joking, right?

Actually no, I’m not lol feel free to correct me, these wings must be from bronze but what do I know right?

If you want to bring ranks into it I’m legendary so knock yourself out lol

Oops youre a 1400 low gold rating. That’s a blatant lie. Ouch public ratings telling it like it is.

Obviously his alt account is in Legendary, duh :P

Oh yeah totally not legendary :o, these back pieces come from bronze

Not that you kittens care but I look pretty legendary to me, or is this back piece from bronze? I’m not sure, you tell me.

Just accept that Dragonhunter is a braindead, versatile class and get over yourselves.

Missing every single primal burst either means 1 of 2 you either got 1: Outplayed/ kited/dodged, 2: you’re mashing mindlessly into blocks or blinds. Most warriors I’ve seen carry might signet, and really it explodes DH’s that aren’t paying attention if the warrior is competent. It’s pretty 50/50.

Thats because signet of might is great, a boost in damage and temporary unblockable. They keyward there is “aren’t” as in if the dragonhunters aren’t paying attention and IF the warrior is good.

If you send your thief or warrior to contest far or another point against a DH because you’re in that position during the game, you’re going to have a bad time.

Darknicrofia.2604:

DrDivine.5378:

Gwaihir.1745:

DrDivine.5378:

Sigmoid.7082:

DrDivine.5378:

Buran.3796:

DrDivine.5378:

Warrior has 2 physical invulnerabilities and one condition invulnerability in a 60s cooldown, reborns to ~6k HP the first time He reaches 0 life, cleanses conditions so well that is almost inmune and the best of all: 3 stuns in a 25s cooldown (one of them fills entirely its adrenaline bar).

Yeah for 5-8 seconds and then you have to wait almost another full minute as that is your only option.

With Dragonhunter let’s see I have a sword that blocks AND deals good damage, almost all my utilities heal and do damage/ another effect such as condi clear or block. Can’t use regular utilities? That’s ok I can just pop a virtue and be immune to damage and if I need another invuln again I’ll just pop my ultimate that blocks, heals and let’s me use it again as it resets cooldowns. That’s not even counting the fact utilities can heal for over 2k each WITHOUT investing in healing power which is kitten lol

Yeah, let’s compare THAT to 4 seconds on endure pain and waiting another full minute. Give me a break lol

The problem with this post in particular is that things are either half truths, i.e sword that blocks projectiles ; you compare a full set of utility skills and fskills all traited to base endure pain only. Its not a very convincing counter argument.

It’s a fair argument because those are only some of the options dragonhunter has while being able to pump out good damage, what do you do if you’re focused as a warrior? Let’s see, your healing sucks unless you continue to hit something via spending adrenaline. so if you were weak you would have to hit a dragonhunter reliably which you dont want to do if you’re low on health. You don’t want to be that close lol

So you have endure pain for power only, you have another stance for condi only (two utility slots btw) and block with your shield. Thats it. Those are your reliable ways of taking damage. It’s just more reliable to be able to spam traps, blocks and heal because you don’t even have to invest in healing power and you’ll still heal great. The virtues give you more blocks/invulnerabilities. It’s wayyyy more reliable.

Divine if you miss 5 bursts in a row you deserve to die. You have a rush on mace and and aoe on your gs. Keeping adrenal health at max is a non issue. Also the current tier standing has warrior as a DH counter so I fail to see your argument as valid. Signet of might is the current meta utility, so walk in, ep -> kill the DH who now is either forced to blow his long cd invuln or die. But really a warrior who cant hit 1 of 5-6 bursts really deservers to die. And if youre backing off when youre low hp you don’t understand warrior. That is when they have the greatest opportunity to turn the fight around and tick to full.

Actually they have DH counters listed as high sustain, something warrior isn’t known for. Go ahead, try to fight a good DH on point 1v1 with your warrior, you’re going to be in for a nasty surprise when he outblocks, heals and ccs you. The whole mentality of warrior is melee swing your sword and mace be in their face aggressively, which is what they’re equipped to deal with. This is why thieves have a hard time against them too, another strict melee class atm you’re not going to beat a good DH.

so this is what the world looks like through a bronze warrior’s eyes.

If you want to bring ranks into it I’m legendary so knock yourself out lol

Gwaihir.1745:

DrDivine.5378:

Gwaihir.1745:

DrDivine.5378:

Sigmoid.7082:

DrDivine.5378:

Buran.3796:

DrDivine.5378:

Warrior has 2 physical invulnerabilities and one condition invulnerability in a 60s cooldown, reborns to ~6k HP the first time He reaches 0 life, cleanses conditions so well that is almost inmune and the best of all: 3 stuns in a 25s cooldown (one of them fills entirely its adrenaline bar).

Yeah for 5-8 seconds and then you have to wait almost another full minute as that is your only option.

With Dragonhunter let’s see I have a sword that blocks AND deals good damage, almost all my utilities heal and do damage/ another effect such as condi clear or block. Can’t use regular utilities? That’s ok I can just pop a virtue and be immune to damage and if I need another invuln again I’ll just pop my ultimate that blocks, heals and let’s me use it again as it resets cooldowns. That’s not even counting the fact utilities can heal for over 2k each WITHOUT investing in healing power which is kitten lol

Yeah, let’s compare THAT to 4 seconds on endure pain and waiting another full minute. Give me a break lol

The problem with this post in particular is that things are either half truths, i.e sword that blocks projectiles ; you compare a full set of utility skills and fskills all traited to base endure pain only. Its not a very convincing counter argument.

It’s a fair argument because those are only some of the options dragonhunter has while being able to pump out good damage, what do you do if you’re focused as a warrior? Let’s see, your healing sucks unless you continue to hit something via spending adrenaline. so if you were weak you would have to hit a dragonhunter reliably which you dont want to do if you’re low on health. You don’t want to be that close lol

So you have endure pain for power only, you have another stance for condi only (two utility slots btw) and block with your shield. Thats it. Those are your reliable ways of taking damage. It’s just more reliable to be able to spam traps, blocks and heal because you don’t even have to invest in healing power and you’ll still heal great. The virtues give you more blocks/invulnerabilities. It’s wayyyy more reliable.

Divine if you miss 5 bursts in a row you deserve to die. You have a rush on mace and and aoe on your gs. Keeping adrenal health at max is a non issue. Also the current tier standing has warrior as a DH counter so I fail to see your argument as valid. Signet of might is the current meta utility, so walk in, ep -> kill the DH who now is either forced to blow his long cd invuln or die. But really a warrior who cant hit 1 of 5-6 bursts really deservers to die. And if youre backing off when youre low hp you don’t understand warrior. That is when they have the greatest opportunity to turn the fight around and tick to full.

Actually they have DH counters listed as high sustain, something warrior isn’t known for. Go ahead, try to fight a good DH on point 1v1 with your warrior, you’re going to be in for a nasty surprise when he outblocks, heals and ccs you. The whole mentality of warrior is melee swing your sword and mace be in their face aggressively, which is what they’re equipped to deal with. This is why thieves have a hard time against them too, another strict melee class atm you’re not going to beat a good DH.

You just called 2x ep and block low sustain. DH outblocked you? Signet of might son.

‘Low sustain’ (lul) ok we’re done here.

oh cool, signet of might. You can hit unblockable for a few seconds in exchange for decreasing your attack for almost 30 seconds. Super. lol It’s a good thing I don’t have to decrease my own stats on dragonhunter just to stand a chance

Gwaihir.1745:

DrDivine.5378:

Sigmoid.7082:

DrDivine.5378:

Buran.3796:

DrDivine.5378:

Warrior has 2 physical invulnerabilities and one condition invulnerability in a 60s cooldown, reborns to ~6k HP the first time He reaches 0 life, cleanses conditions so well that is almost inmune and the best of all: 3 stuns in a 25s cooldown (one of them fills entirely its adrenaline bar).

Yeah for 5-8 seconds and then you have to wait almost another full minute as that is your only option.

With Dragonhunter let’s see I have a sword that blocks AND deals good damage, almost all my utilities heal and do damage/ another effect such as condi clear or block. Can’t use regular utilities? That’s ok I can just pop a virtue and be immune to damage and if I need another invuln again I’ll just pop my ultimate that blocks, heals and let’s me use it again as it resets cooldowns. That’s not even counting the fact utilities can heal for over 2k each WITHOUT investing in healing power which is kitten lol

Yeah, let’s compare THAT to 4 seconds on endure pain and waiting another full minute. Give me a break lol

The problem with this post in particular is that things are either half truths, i.e sword that blocks projectiles ; you compare a full set of utility skills and fskills all traited to base endure pain only. Its not a very convincing counter argument.

It’s a fair argument because those are only some of the options dragonhunter has while being able to pump out good damage, what do you do if you’re focused as a warrior? Let’s see, your healing sucks unless you continue to hit something via spending adrenaline. so if you were weak you would have to hit a dragonhunter reliably which you dont want to do if you’re low on health. You don’t want to be that close lol

So you have endure pain for power only, you have another stance for condi only (two utility slots btw) and block with your shield. Thats it. Those are your reliable ways of taking damage. It’s just more reliable to be able to spam traps, blocks and heal because you don’t even have to invest in healing power and you’ll still heal great. The virtues give you more blocks/invulnerabilities. It’s wayyyy more reliable.

Divine if you miss 5 bursts in a row you deserve to die. You have a rush on mace and and aoe on your gs. Keeping adrenal health at max is a non issue. Also the current tier standing has warrior as a DH counter so I fail to see your argument as valid. Signet of might is the current meta utility, so walk in, ep -> kill the DH who now is either forced to blow his long cd invuln or die. But really a warrior who cant hit 1 of 5-6 bursts really deservers to die. And if youre backing off when youre low hp you don’t understand warrior. That is when they have the greatest opportunity to turn the fight around and tick to full.

Actually they have DH counters listed as high sustain, something warrior isn’t known for. Go ahead, try to fight a good DH on point 1v1 with your warrior, you’re going to be in for a nasty surprise when he outblocks, heals and ccs you. The whole mentality of warrior is melee swing your sword and mace be in their face aggressively, which is what they’re equipped to deal with. This is why thieves have a hard time against them too, another strict melee class atm you’re not going to beat a good DH.

Sigmoid.7082:

DrDivine.5378:

Buran.3796:

DrDivine.5378:

Warrior has 2 physical invulnerabilities and one condition invulnerability in a 60s cooldown, reborns to ~6k HP the first time He reaches 0 life, cleanses conditions so well that is almost inmune and the best of all: 3 stuns in a 25s cooldown (one of them fills entirely its adrenaline bar).

Yeah for 5-8 seconds and then you have to wait almost another full minute as that is your only option.

With Dragonhunter let’s see I have a sword that blocks AND deals good damage, almost all my utilities heal and do damage/ another effect such as condi clear or block. Can’t use regular utilities? That’s ok I can just pop a virtue and be immune to damage and if I need another invuln again I’ll just pop my ultimate that blocks, heals and let’s me use it again as it resets cooldowns. That’s not even counting the fact utilities can heal for over 2k each WITHOUT investing in healing power which is kitten lol

Yeah, let’s compare THAT to 4 seconds on endure pain and waiting another full minute. Give me a break lol

The problem with this post in particular is that things are either half truths, i.e sword that blocks projectiles ; you compare a full set of utility skills and fskills all traited to base endure pain only. Its not a very convincing counter argument.

It’s a fair argument because those are only some of the options dragonhunter has while being able to pump out good damage, what do you do if you’re focused as a warrior? Let’s see, your healing sucks unless you continue to hit something via spending adrenaline. so if you were weak you would have to hit a dragonhunter reliably which you dont want to do if you’re low on health. You don’t want to be that close lol

So you have endure pain for power only, you have another stance for condi only (two utility slots btw) and block with your shield. Thats it. Those are your reliable ways of taking damage. It’s just more reliable to be able to spam traps, blocks and heal because you don’t even have to invest in healing power and you’ll still heal great. The virtues give you more blocks/invulnerabilities. It’s wayyyy more reliable.

Buran.3796:

DrDivine.5378:

Warrior has 2 physical invulnerabilities and one condition invulnerability in a 60s cooldown, reborns to ~6k HP the first time He reaches 0 life, cleanses conditions so well that is almost inmune and the best of all: 3 stuns in a 25s cooldown (one of them fills entirely its adrenaline bar).

Yeah for 5-8 seconds and then you have to wait almost another full minute as that is your only option.

With Dragonhunter let’s see I have a sword that blocks AND deals good damage, almost all my utilities heal and do damage/ another effect such as condi clear or block. Can’t use regular utilities? That’s ok I can just pop a virtue and be immune to damage and if I need another invuln again I’ll just pop my ultimate that blocks, heals and let’s me use it again as it resets cooldowns. That’s not even counting the fact utilities can heal for over 2k each WITHOUT investing in healing power which is kitten lol

Yeah, let’s compare THAT to 4 seconds on endure pain and waiting another full minute. Give me a break lol

Spartacus.3192:

DrDivine.5378:

Darknicrofia.2604:

“it has decent health”

tfw the lowest health pool base is “decent health”

Yet meta DH only has 2k less health than meta warrior, who has the highest healthpool in the game. That’s quite an accomplishment lol

Comparing apples to oranges much?

That 2k diff comes from Dh taking marauder which has 5600 hp more HP than Zerker amulet that Warrior takes.

Like I mentioned before, the big difference is they don’t even have to invest in healing power to heal well. So imagine cutting that close to warrior stats except more blocks, similar damage, similar healthpool but also have great healing power with a marauder amulet. They don’t have to sacrifice anything lol

Rune Darkmoor.3269:

DrDivine.5378:

Darknicrofia.2604:

“it has decent health”

tfw the lowest health pool base is “decent health”

Yet meta DH only has 2k less health than meta warrior, who has the highest healthpool in the game. That’s quite an accomplishment lol

Not really. Different amulets. Guardian sacrifices more base offensive stat to get that close.

Better to compare base, since base is what determines usable amulets for the most part. Barely 11.5k HP to 19k HP. (rounded)

8k is a lot of HP we have to make up with vitality that a warrior can take on other stats.

And if you try to talk about guardian can run zerker ammy, I’m going to laugh at you. That’s literally asking to die in half a second. (no real passive defenses, cough warrior cough, aegis barely counts)

Anyone who runs berserker amulet on guardian is asking for death, but that isn’t the only problem. So you sacrifice a little bit of ferocity but 187% is still great. So warrior and guardian basically share the same health pool now while doing similar damage, once you wear down endure pain thats pretty much it.

Now let’s look at guardian, similar health pool, similar damage, can heal extremely well without even investing in healing power. Seriously, you’re running marauder, get fury and healing from meditations so no need to invest in that much precision, but you can heal for a great amount without having healing power. That’s a huge problem because when you wear each other down, a dragonhunter will just block, heal and spam you with it’s much more forgiving cooldowns. Warrior you’re just going to be waiting for stances to get up and swing your sword away lol

I’m having a bug with the Primal Burst on mace too, for some reason, it does the same damage as an axe while also inflicting conditions and being able to block and stun with it’s other utilities.

Darknicrofia.2604:

“it has decent health”

tfw the lowest health pool base is “decent health”

Yet meta DH only has 2k less health than meta warrior, who has the highest healthpool in the game. That’s quite an accomplishment lol

Before you rip me to shreds for the most part, I think this meta is one of the better ones we’ve had in awhile as most classes besides revenant get some play. However, there is one profession that seriously stands out as a strong choice and that is Dragonhunter.

“But what about warrior?!” Warrior is pretty strong too, but it doesn’t have nearly as many options and the weaknesses are at least noticeable. For example, chrono is strong condi but very frail to power damage, thief has great damage but is also frail, necro has terrible disengage but also strong, warrior has great damage but bare minimum defenses and no range, etc. when you’re forced in a 1v1 especially these problems become prevalent. Here’s a few reasons why:

-Dragonhunter is hands down the best 1v1 class, it can stop your thief, mesmer, etc. if you’re forced to contest for that point. It has decent health, excellent damage at both close and ranged combat, good cc and can surprisingly deal with both power and condi builds effectively

-Only class other than necro that can run vanilla, this is more guardian in general but you can run burning, you can run support, you can run power damage (DH) there’s a lot of options right now for this class.

-The one glaring flaw of Dragonhunter was that it’s slow, which changed when rune of the lynx was introduced.

-Takes considerably less effort to do the same job. Again, referring back to warrior. While they’re stepping in your traps trying to get to you as you pew pew away with your bow, you can just block and heal away. Seriously, you have to pop signet of might for that unblockable and reduce your power doing so and only get that buff for a few seconds, they can survive that and pump out damage without sacrificing much.

-Only real threats are ele (which is more support) and revenant (which is bad right now) and that’s pretty much it.

iAimToPlease.7304:

I really need to vent for a sec, because people never go out to kill the other team’s lord when it’s wide open, even when we still have our inner gate and they have nobody defending the lord, they keep running mid for supplies that don’t do anything.

It seriously irritates me, because many of these games that we lost, we could have won if people would just go and kill the lord.

Because Anet has mostly abandon the game mode as a whole, most decent players are just going to play conquest. You can’t do ranked, no new features have been added since tybalt, only one map. People mostly just go there to do dailies and have fun. If Anet doesn’t take SH seriously why should the players?

Hah the original OP Divine, but don’t worry I’m a doctor. Anyway here’s my input on the classes:

Dragonhunter: Wayyyy too many options and tanky for something that can dish out that much damage while being able to deal with both power and condi specs alike

Berserker: Pretty decent spot, very high damage but also very frail and can be kited

Reaper: It’s fine, does good damage and chill to the bone is amazing, but also wears a bullseye and always gets focused due to poor disengage

Daredevil: Super frail but mobility and damage is good, it feels pretty fair

Scrapper: Amazing as a support bruiser, but again, I’ve never had a scrapper that was so impossibly broken it turned the game

Chronomancer: Similar to the daredevil, frail but good damage and mobility, in a good spot

Druid: Can be super annoying but it can be worn down by condis and cc

Tempest: Amazing healer but the class as a whole is very one note. It does one job extremely well but you will never venture outside of that support role, definitely needs more options

Herald: By far the worst profession right now, no identity, not very good as a power, condi or even support spec. Out of all the professions, this one desperately needs more options, I would argue and say it’s even worse than tempest because at least there it does one job better than anything else. There is no reason to play a herald.

It’s definitely strong, but I think it’s evened out by the fact Necro in general wears a bullseye. It doesn’t matter what comp you’re facing, the moment your team sees they have a necro, they’re going to slap the target on him so fast lol

This is because for as strong as necro is, it gets focused down very easily so positioning is everything. It rewards you for landing utilities like that correctly, but if it misses and you need to disengage from the enemy team trying to focus you, you’re gonna have a bad time

NeXeD.3042:

i actually agree with OP i go full glass or Vit on my necro now…. if im going to die its due to chain CC not high damage.

I believe it to be the truth, an example for me is condition damage. On some classes I can get it as high as 1700 condition damage, some of those condis do not have extended durations but if you get damaged by conditions with that much power behind them, it really hurts. This is why Chrono just runs carrion with scavenging, it has around 1500 which is a very high number for condition damage and it hurts, you can feel what you invested.

With toughness, there is no reason a DH, warrior, thief, etc. should be hitting 6-8k on a heavy class with 4700 toughness lol. If someone wanted to give up other stats such as power, precision or ferocity for vitality and toughness, they shouldn’t be getting bursted as if they were running marauder.

Fluffball.8307:

You don’t have to test anything just do that math.

That’s the problem though, there isn’t really any math. A DH is still hitting normal damage as if it ignores toughness entirely

DH definitely needs a nerf, it doesn’t need to sacrifice anything outside of movement speed and even that can be fixed with lynx runes now.

-Can run marauder and still tank reasonably well
-High damage
-Good sustain
-Excellent at 1v1s
-Good against power builds due to blocks
-Good against condi builds due to blocks and good condi clears
-Can fight both ranged and up close
-Can run both power and condi

Really think about it, even the meta warrior has to rely on endure pain because its so frail and can be kited, chrono has good damage but is also frail, thief has high damage but again, frail. Dragonhunter in my opinion has WAY too many options for such an easy to pick up class.

I get it, the bunker elite spec meta was the worst time in the game’s history lol but there really isn’t a point to toughness now. Blocks and invulns are the way to go.

I decided to mess around with a few characters and see how toughness actually works when it comes to taking a hit. I went really high on the toughness warrior, decent health and toughness was around 3700. I pushed it further by taking RR boosting it up to 4700 for a limited time.

Me and a friend tested this out in an empty room, he took his DH. The burst did almost the exact same damage regardless of if I was running meta berserker warrior or this made up trash lol.

To me, it really shows why the typical build just goes full berserker, yeah the damage is nice, but toughness has no real value anymore. You’re better off just swinging your sword around with invulns with max damage because it doesn’t matter. If toughness doesn’t scale to that extreme, put a cap on it at like 2500-3000 because when I see 3700-4700 toughness I think “wow this can sure take a hit.”

Mesmer is fine, toughness got nerfed, moa got nerfed, shield got nerfed, healing got balanced, it’s still good to play, but can also be killed which is a good sign to me. I hate it when people don’t know what to do in moa, I used to die a lot too to it, so I read the moa skills. The best one is probably the 5 skill, allowing you to do a fast sprint. You literally sprint away, wait for it to wear off and get back in there.

The problem is that thief has been and still is a one trick pony. The damage and mobility are actually quite good, but it can’t 1v1 all that well which is a huge problem. You’ll rely on a thief to cap far, only for the enemy’s DH or something to be there and the thief just can’t do anything. It’s not the best in big fights either since it’s so squishy and doesn’t offer too much.

Chrono has good mobility, damage but is actually good in team fights. DH is great for 1v1 and teamfights with it’s only real drawback being speed. Similar to revenant, thief isn’t god awful and can be played well, but I don’t see them doing anything that other classes don’t do better.

ParanoidKami.2867:

Some players are just bad. It’s not Thieves in particular but is actually evenly distributed among the classes. Thieves are just more visible when they’re not good because you can judge them from how they move on the mini-map. I main a Thief and I’ve won the last 9 of my 10 games.

This is true, but I think there is more of a skill gap between classes such as a thief and a DH. A thief you can very easily be one of the best or the worst on your team, no disrespect to DH mains but they can deal out a lot of damage and such with comfortable options for recovery.

saerni.2584:

As a thief this is how I tend to analyze the cost-benefit of decap/fullcap:

I will full cap if my team is fully or mostly sustaining the mid fight. I’m not in a rush if they aren’t dying and my full cap will put more pressure on them and divide their team as much as possible.

I will just decap if my team needs help at mid. As mentioned there is no point in full capping just to lose the point a little bit later. Even if they recap it 20 seconds later that is a decent chunk of points. Repeat that a few times and you will have a good lead.

I will not decap if my team needs a +1 at home more than the few points they gain from keeping the point. This often happens when I don’t trust my team to +1 home because the mid fight hasn’t gone well and I’m better able to cross the map to help.

I will also decap as I can when most/entire team wipes at mid. This is usually where the largest problems occur. If my team can’t sustain long enough for me to perform a simple decap then I will have a problem decapping because their mid fighters will come to me.

My final thought is more generic but worth mentioning I think: sometimes we get outplayed. For example, there was a DH I fought pre-season who for a while during this season was top 5 in the NA leaderboard (with a lot of games played). He was extraordinary. He was fighting 1v3 and just not dying. He was using every bit of terrain and utility skills. He was solo holding my team’s home while rotating back to mid as needed. The rest of his team did well enough but he was their mvp by far. I couldn’t properly decap because his play freed up enough teammates to stop any decap from happening.

I have seen neutralizing a point done correctly, but I think a good thief player especially needs great map awareness as picking the correct fights is crucial to what they’re best at. For example, I had one thief decap far without capping it, there was the usual big fight at mid but also one of their players was attacking our guy capping home at the start of the match. I really thought he wouldve either fully capped far or neutralized it and went home to +1 the enemy in that 1v1. But what happened was he instead chose to go mid where he was double layered in traps since they had two DHs and died first

I feel like thief is best +1ing to put your enemy at a disadvantage. You could maybe get away with it mid in some instances, I think with two DHs and a tempest you don’t be doing much reliable backstabbing.

I don’t play thief I suck at it, but I don’t think their OP, OP is not the same as being good.

They have great damage but also have notable weaknesses (some of them you already mentioned.) I’ve never had a moment where a thief was just this unstoppable force, I’ve been backstabbed but it was all about their good timing.

Not because I think they’re OP, in fact, I like that they can do their job well again but also be countered, all in all I like the spot it’s in right now.

So whats so bad about it then? The playerbase, oh god the playerbase lol. Everytime thief is in a decent spot, I always get a thief that just completely fails at the role. They always decap without actually capping the point despite having time and for some reason, they’re always slow. The tools are there, why are we going faster than you around the map?

I had one last night decap far but left it neutral, went mid and died. When we asked about it, “I decap neutral to waste their time!” if I ask why they died, “thief isn’t good at 1v1s,” when we ask why they died at mid “thief isn’t good at team fights”

So what the kitten is thief good at being then? A neutral bot? lol jk but seriously the thief community is the worst.

Honestly I think all three of them are fine right now, mesmer already had shield, moa, etc. nerfed as well as toughness due to the removal of amulets as well as a balance in self healing.

Thief can actually do it’s job now but is still squishy, I’ve never had a moment where a thief was unbeatable, just annoying.

Warrior feels exceptionally well to play and fight, it feels like an actual warrior. high damage, decent mobility, but also super reliant on stances to compensate for low defenses.

Entenkommando.5208:

#makecondirevgreatagain (or #makecondirevgreatforthefirsttimeever if you prefer)

People can hate condi revenant and I don’t blame them to an extent, it was very broken at one point lol.

But it felt very unique though the way it could deal damage and provide support via resistance. I say bring it back in some shape or form.

XxsdgxX.8109:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

XxsdgxX.8109:

DrDivine.5378:

This profession has had an interesting history, from being almost unusable to becoming the staple on any serious team. People might disagree with me on this, but one issue I’ve always had with the revenant in pvp is that it doesn’t feel like it knows what it wants to be.

Power shiro, the most prominent build in it’s history, is really just a thief. Once they were able to take their role back as the sort of glassy but very mobile dps, they don’t have much to work with. The revenant is a heavy class, but it doesn’t really take hits (conditions for that matter) very well.

Thief and mesmer used to suffer from this problem for the longest time, the reason old fashioned shatter power mesmer didn’t work is because it was heaviy countered by thief but trying to fight for that role of “glassy mobile dps guy” and failed. Once mesmer started to lean towards it’s own role, the really annoying confusion, manipulation with portal it started to stand on it’s own. Thats what we need right now. Thief and mesmer are now doing their own things, revenant needs to do the same.

It was jack of all trades (and master of none), but the saltiness of people destroyed the class and now it does at best an average job at niche things, it’s pretty sad because arguably it’s one of the most interesting classes, both mechanically and thematically.

And you can see how people in general don’t give kitten about balance when they keep expressing how happy they are that the class they hate is almost unusable and hope it stays dead.

You mean it was shipped overpowered compared to all other Classes forcing Multiple classes out of their Roles for close to a Year.

Sorry the Rev finally got a dose of reality, maybe now they will start fixing its plethora of bugs instead of making it rely on overpowered skills.

First one, here we go. Good mature community proving my points.

Revenant was indeed broken for the longest time, that being said, that doesn’t mean it deserves to be outclassed, but it does need it’s own role without being completely broken. Really only two of the stances or whatever you call them have been used with real success.

I feel the revenant has good potential to be an interesting class, but it needs to stop being this squishy (yet heavy) thief and bring something different. Maybe a weird hybrid of two roles I’m not sure but something.

This profession has had an interesting history, from being almost unusable to becoming the staple on any serious team. People might disagree with me on this, but one issue I’ve always had with the revenant in pvp is that it doesn’t feel like it knows what it wants to be.

Power shiro, the most prominent build in it’s history, is really just a thief. Once they were able to take their role back as the sort of glassy but very mobile dps, they don’t have much to work with. The revenant is a heavy class, but it doesn’t really take hits (conditions for that matter) very well.

Thief and mesmer used to suffer from this problem for the longest time, the reason old fashioned shatter power mesmer didn’t work is because it was heaviy countered by thief but trying to fight for that role of “glassy mobile dps guy” and failed. Once mesmer started to lean towards it’s own role, the really annoying confusion, manipulation with portal it started to stand on it’s own. Thats what we need right now. Thief and mesmer are now doing their own things, revenant needs to do the same.

I don’t play revenant really, they were broken for the longest time but yeah, they did get nerfed a little too much this time around. PVP wise, I don’t feel like the revenant as a class has an identity.

The way it played before (power shiro) was basically just playing thief, but thief as a class was not very good until just recently, so now that the thief can fulfill it’s role again there is little reason to take one. Way too susceptible to conditions, doesn’t have the tankiness of a warrior or guardian nor the damage.

It’s like you have a heavy thief with almost no condi clears, not as much damage or survivability. What is the revenant supposed to be? Not a heavy thief that is for sure lol

Phineas Poe.3018:

Elite specs still need some shaving, but I agree that this is the best meta we’ve had in a long time. I just wish scrapper brought more to the team than just being a res bot.

Yeah, I mean considering were still mostly tied to elite specs, we can at least make different builds with them so I’ll give it that. It feels mostly balanced, well paced and fun.

I’m not a pro scrapper, far from it in fact, but I’ve been really enjoying the condi gyro build an alternative. Unblockable launch, cc and lots of poison to keep the enemy from healing. It’s just flat out fun haha

Abelisk.4527:

That’s my favorite thing this season. Everyone seems to be using classes to their own intent, and tweaking the meta builds is certainly possible.

Even though revenant was nerfed, it does an excellent job with boonshare and it still has auto attack damage that can wreck.

I suck playing rev too, mainly because I haven’t had the time to get invested into practicing and memorizing complex rotations. What I like about revenant is that the builds appear to be versatile, considering how many rotations are available. It’s the hardcore class of the game.

Yeah, I mean with the other classes I’ve had time over the years to at least be decent with them, but rev I have not spent much time with.

That’s why I don’t know if I can go as far as to say revenant sucks, I just think I have the wrong mindset for playing it haha

alemfi.5107:

Revenant is fairly underperforming. But I agree for the most part. DH skill floor is the lowest, but it is not overperforming. In fact it might be underperforming as well, but it is easy to pick up.

Edit: Wish we actually had data driven sites for this though. Something like gw2pvp.de but be able to divide by season. All we have is anecdotal evidence.

Yeah, I would say revenant is the weakest link but I can’t say too much because I’ve always been a garbage pvp revenant lmao, just never clicked with me. DH I’d put in the same category as builds like turret engi (though not nearly as OP). Really annoying for casual matches, but won’t be destroying tournaments.

Yeah me too, idk the good seems to be outdoing the bad right now as it doesn’t feel stale and I’m actually able to make up builds that have some success. The bad things are annoying, but not destroying pvp, all the classes are getting played and I like that.

Gwaihir.1745:

People like to say DH just free casts behind their blocks. Try free casting past gold and you’re asking to get shut down.

Also a good scrapper easily beats a good DH. The biggest failing of most players is their failure to interrupt purification which forces a full cd with only a 2k heal.

I wouldn’t say they’re freecasting, theres some DHs I’ve seen thats clearly skill, this is more in terms of “pick up and play” DH is probably the easiest. As for the healing, it has to be more than 2k, not on purification, but DHs will be at 25% and they can easily get their health back up full in a few seconds. Not very consistent in big team fights, but if you’re in that position where you have to contest, it can be a pretty big problem.

I’ve complained about DHs this is true, but for the most part this meta seems pretty good actually. Elite specs are still a problem, but you know what? People are actually using different builds and variations which I think is very welcoming. Also, no class really stands out as absolute garbage yet, I’ve seen good performances all around.

Sooloo.1364:

Reaper boon corruption, then freeze, then bleed to death. They dont last long. Same as eles

Yeah I agree on that, really the only problem with that is you won’t really be seeing a reaper 1v1 a DH effectively. I would say reaper is definitely useful, but needs a little bit of help to see it’s full potential which can be very deadly.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Good condi clear? They normally have only one in a big cooldown. Decent health? Like really? They have the worst hp pool of the game. This show how knowledge you are with the class.
Cc? They have a pull on 40 sec cd. Maybe a knockback on LB if traited. An impossible to land CC on lb 5 if a player is decent. And thats it. As they normally go with Sword and shield for swap.
The only thing they really have is the good amount of PROJECTILE blocks. Because 1 block of aegis every 45 seconds is pretty poor.

While they inherently have the worst healthpool in the game next to ele, they have traits to compensate for this (one grandmaster even boosting their health) and unlike ele, can get away with using amulets that give them the health they need to be tanky. An ele can barely get away with something like marauder or carrion because of the traits and survivability, but a DH can easily while dishing out just as much damage.

Let’s face it, the healthpools have been toned down quite a bit in the past few years, 18-19k is considered pretty average by today’s standards. Just because you main DH doesn’t mean you gotta get kitten lol

I won’t talk about them being easy to play, this is more about breaking down why they can be annoying to face. As strong as some other classes are, you can break down their weakspots pretty well. For example, meta warrior you can simply stall out the one or two stances before going in for the burst as they have a hard time healing themselves back. Necro has annoying condi damage but is one of the easier targets to focus as they don’t have really any disengage. Druids are pretty weak against cc, etc.

DH is a combination of good qualities, decent health, loads of blocks, synergy with cooldowns, can heal itself full, good condi clear, cc and does good AOE and ranged damaged. I would say their weaknesses are tempest which don’t have much offensive presence, unblockable attacks which are pretty scarce and the fact they’re slow.

I don’t think it needs a nerf, conditions can do serious damage, but theres also ways around it that can completely make it in your favor. For example, power berserker with berserkers stance, that’s a long time where you can’t inflict any damage on them and their power damage is relatively high.

This week I’ve been playing classes I normally don’t play, which included scrapper. I’m not an expert at playing the profession yet, but so far it’s been pretty fun and I’ve surprisingly been doing well in ranked.

This isn’t a thread claiming DHs are OP, but it seems like the matchup I struggle with the most, the next being reapers. Theres so many blocks combined with high damage I have a hard time haha, I do decent damage but never enough to finish the job.

As for reapers, its a little better, the condis can really hurt but sometimes I pull through. So whether you’re a power or condi scrapper, what do you think of the matchups? And whats the best way to deal with them in a fight?

I’m going to be honest, I’ve always hated the greatsword on warrior, it put a bad taste in my mouth from the last few years when glass cannon warriors tried to be OP and solo far and always ended up failing.When I heard about greatsword and mace/sh being good I cringed lol.

After playing it though, in all honesty, this is one of the best incarnations of warrior I’ve seen. Macebow in it’s prime was excellent and probably more OP, but in terms of what I expect from the class, the “feel” of it and viability it’s good. Not too tanky but has defensive options, good damage but not too strong and no ranged options, no hiding behind a gimmick like rampage. This is what I wanted out of berserker/warrior when HoT first released, a very aggressive in your face profession. I just talked about how I hate the greatsword but the way this setup feels is just plain fun.

Ele is a great healer and support, probably the best of that category. I have a lot of fun with mine, but I do think there should be at least one option for a dps oriented build.

Eles have very low vitality and their utilities don’t do much to compensate for that unless you go full healer support. Similar to guardian, heals are a big part of it’s survivability. The guardian has blocks and high toughness to make up for the low vitality, ele has similar vitality but without the natural bulk.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

DrDivine.5378:

Ok so my idea is most likely broken and a lot of combos with traits and such would need to be balanced, but heres my basic idea:

With how OP the elite specs are compared to vanilla, pvp exclusive but make the new weapon or mechanic baseline. If they aren’t going to balance elite with vanilla, make elite THE vanilla (but only the new weapon and mechanic such as berserk mode) so people can freely choose traitlines. I don’t think we should have to do that, but a year in and vanilla still isn’t getting used on any classes so might as well make the advancement lol

The way Elite specs are balanced is by you having to select the trait line for the new weapon and mechanic, since they will be releasing brand new Elite specs each Xpac otherwise it will be a blancing nightmare and just increase the powercreep, with your idea people would stack the New mechanics from each xpac

It’s a good point, the issue there is that means diversity now relies on expansion releases as it would take a few elite specs to truly make people choose. Their only competition right now is vanilla which they outperform.

With that mindset, they should be patching in elite spec traitlines, even if its just one a year, something to make people choose ya know?

Ok so my idea is most likely broken and a lot of combos with traits and such would need to be balanced, but heres my basic idea:

With how OP the elite specs are compared to vanilla, pvp exclusive but make the new weapon or mechanic baseline. If they aren’t going to balance elite with vanilla, make elite THE vanilla (but only the new weapon and mechanic such as berserk mode) so people can freely choose traitlines. I don’t think we should have to do that, but a year in and vanilla still isn’t getting used on any classes so might as well make the advancement lol

RlyOsim.2497:

Question for the community:

3 months are ok the amount of changes these balance patches contain?

I may have gotten spoiled, but as someone who plays both GW2 and LoL, LoL patches things very quickly, sometimes in just a few weeks if something is broken. Compare that to three months for basic changes that might not even pay off.

I would love faster balancing as I like the pvp here, theres just a few issues

Zodryn.4216:

Power: 5-2-1-4-3-2-2

Condi: 3-Shift-1-3-Shift-1

Judging by OP’s tone, I think he may prefer DH though…

DH: 524ga1737gs0bfia5264gdu6619ha-remove face from keyboard

My rotation isn’t 524ga1737gs0bfia5264gdu6619ha on DH, it’s 524ga1737gs0bfia5264gdu6619ha shift 524ga1737gs0bfia5264gdu6619ha

I think one of the biggest arguments I see when constructing a build is “power takes more skill than condi” and there is a little truth to that in theory. However, I feel like I’ve seen these so called “faceroll” builds in the form of both. yeah there were issues with condi necros, mesmers, etc. but remember pew pew ranger, dragonhunter, turret engi, rampage warrior? I won’t include revenant pre patch because for as strong as it is, I felt like you had to know what you were doing (I’m a personal fail revenant but thats just me lol)

As someone who has different builds on different characters, I say play what you enjoy. If you’re doing good in your matches play what you’re good at.

Chapell.1346:

Why not both?

Give this guy a kittening raise!