Guild Wars 2

Not a rumor. Guardian and Necro are being done 8/29/14

Roe.3679:

I would add that lich form will no longer improve power on wells.

Wouldn’t work. Power is Power, regardless.

Zatoichi.1049:

so I’m hearing a lot of angry replies about how the last 2 professions will not have enough time between the preview and patch to discuss the changes…

I hate to say this, but seriously, do you guys really believe that discussing the changes is going to persuade them to change anything they already decided on? What in the history of Anet makes you people believe that after releasing patch notes/previewing patch notes, that forum discussions will get them to change their mind?

Deceptive Evasion and Weakening Shroud are two examples where preview feedback changed how things went down.

Muchacho.2390:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Since we are on the subject And anet is trying to bring up unused traits…

Maybe they will make http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst a minor, or better merge it or something..

Problem solved. (for me) ^^

I think imo the best would be to make bloodthirst baseline for all siphons and put quickining thrist into the now free adept slot. And then give us a new master trait.

And we would still have only two traits that get used in that slot: Mark of Evasion and Transfusion.

Sad, but pretty true.

While we only know what half of the classes are getting (we’ll know ele and mesmer in a couple hours), I also have to say this is shaping up to be a really good update. The changes all seem reasonable.

We don’t need mobility. Dark Path could use a tracking buff and Spectral Grasp could use a reliability change, but we really don’t need mobility.

Defenses are the primary weaknesses that we shouldn’t have right now.

Rym.1469:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Brujeria.7536:

Can be balanced easy because the number of unique conditions a necro can cause is limited,

Scepter/Dagger with Bone Fiend (or Flesh Wurm) and Spectral Wall on the bar, Dhuumfire for a trait.

One build capable of causing every condition in the game without RNG.

So yeah, the number of unique conditions a necro can apply is limited, but in this case, it’s because the game has no conditions that a necro can’t apply.

With a slight exception of Confusion, though Of course if we don’t count Perplexity runes or Corruption.

Confusion too. Minion’s projectile finisher combos with Spectral Wall’s Ethereal field.

No special gear is needed for a necro to cause every condition in the game.

EDIT: Ninja’d by Bhawb.

Brujeria.7536:

Can be balanced easy because the number of unique conditions a necro can cause is limited,

Scepter/Dagger with Bone Fiend (or Flesh Wurm) and Spectral Wall on the bar, Dhuumfire for a trait.

One build capable of causing every condition in the game without RNG.

So yeah, the number of unique conditions a necro can apply is limited, but in this case, it’s because the game has no conditions that a necro can’t apply.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Daniel Warren.4968:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Why can’t we “just can’t” do that?

>Target ground, any initial damage or damage from fire tick for touching the field procs CI.

Longbow still sets up for Fiery Aura, area might, burning, Pin down for immob, idunno, hitting more than one target with one of the only two ranged weapons we have?

There’s lots of things you can use LB for other than condireset.

Gotta be careful about that, if its not coded right (har har) it’d result in multiple condi cleanses every time someone steps into the field. Since every other burst resolves CI when adrenaline is spent, if there’s no hit on execution it shouldn’t trigger.

Just add a 5 sec cooldown to CI proc, problem solved.

Doesn’t the field last longer than 5 seconds?

Sunshine.4680:

I don’t play my warrior much but it seems to me the only way people will be happy is if the Warrior is a free kill in PvP and insta downed in PVE from boss attacks, people wouldn’t be happy even if they nerfed Warrior HP, healing, dmg and armor. Which is sad, people would rather see nerfs than everyone else getting buffed, to me warriors are how classes should all be, capable of doing anything if speced for it.

I would put Guardians as the ideal balance point. They are capable of doing anything (minus a viable condition build) if specced for it, but they have to spec for it. Warriors can do a lot of things in a single spec, which is the real source of complaints. The typical Hambow build is high durability, high control, high power, high condition damage, high sustain…all at the same time.

I’d say after CI/Combustive Shot interaction gets changed, the Warrior could use some small buffs. Perhaps a buff to Mending’s base heal to make it more attractive as it is (and can be traited to be better) a very good condi cleanse, but usually isn’t worth losing the high healing amount from healing signet.

TheDevice.2751:

I think they’re going to add the new reveal mechanic to axe 3……

If they do, Unholy Feast becomes the best reveal skill in the game because it can be used post-stealth.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Mystic.5934:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Andred.1087:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It’s a plant. Generally speaking, plants don’t have separate sexes.

Umm I dunno how to tell you this, but…

They may have male and female parts, but among most plants, the organism as a whole does not have separate sexes.

I’m aware that there are some plants (not the majority, however) where there are actually males and females.

oh good! cause I didn’t know how to describe it, either!

I would guess female. just because I pronounce it maw-dree. which rhymes with audrey, which is a girl’s name.

I always imagine in sounds like a young kid saying “Marjory”, like it was their first word or something and they can’t properly pronounce all the syllables.

Maw-dree is the correct pronunciation. It’s based loosely on the plant from Little Shop of Horrors named Audrey (and yes, there was an Audrey II as well).

Ironically, Audrey had a deep baritone, masculine sounding voice.

Yeah, it is. Kinda funny, really, as I have no clue how that bug came to be. It makes zero sense.

Nah, Healing Signet’s passive base value could probably use a bit of a nerf, but that should be compensated for with increased scaling with Healing Power. Regardless, dropping it to 200 HP/sec is not a good move.

Fix the Longbow/CI interaction and Warrior should be good. Might even see some small buffs after that.

Bhawb.7408:

1. In PvE for when you need to ranged an encounter

Or when you want triple hits against dragons. Hits harder than Unyielding Blast against the second and third hit points..

I still have never had Renewing Blast bug out. The only trick is that against larger enemies (like bosses), because they are so large, the angle shoots the life blast right over your allies’ heads.

These are my (serious) predictions for the Necro balance changes. Just getting these recorded now so I can compare things later.

Weapons:
Dagger auto attack cleaves a second target (confirmed) Life Force is still only granted once per skill use, and only if it hits.
Life Siphon (Dagger 2): Cast time reduced to 2.5 seconds (from 3.5)
Rending Claws (Axe 1) cast time reduced to .5 seconds (from .75 seconds)
Ghastly Claws (Axe 2) cast time reduced from 2.5 seconds to 2 seconds
Unholy Feast (Scepter 3) now grants 2% life force, regardless of if the target has a condition or not in addition to its current effects

Heal:
Reduced Signet of Vampirism’s cast time from 1.25 seconds to 1 second.

Utilities:
Well of Corruption grants 1% life force per hit (in other words, making the bug it currently has an official part of the skill)
Well of Darkness recharge reduced from 50 seconds to 45.
Signet of the Locust active is 10% more effective.

Elite:
No longer increases Power. Skills have been re-scaled to compensate.

Traits:
Parasitic Contagion increased from 5% to 8%
Reaper’s Precision increased to a 50% chance on crit from 33%
Weakening Shroud weakness duration increased to 2.5 seconds from 2 seconds
Withering Precision cooldown is reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds. Duration reduced from 5 seconds to 4 seconds.
Ritual of Protection increased from 3 to 4 seconds of Protection
Full of Life duration increased from 5 to 10 seconds of Regeneration
Bloodthirst increased from 20% to 30% increased siphon effectiveness.
Vampiric, Vampiric Precision, and Vampiric Rituals have their effects increased by 10%
Unholy Martyr life force gain increased from 5% to 6%
Gluttony increased from 10% bonus to 15% bonus
Path of Midnight increased from 15% to 20%.

I’m willing to bet I’ve got some of these right. I have very little confidence that any of the changes they make will actually mean anything for necros, though. We’ll be “better,” but not in a way that matters.

Roe.3679:

Flesh wurm could use some improvements as a lot of the functionality missed the mark, but saying flesh wurm is terrible is amusing to me. That skill has saved me numerous times from zergs and other nasty situations, more than any other skill has by quite a bit. If you think it’s bad in WvW I’m curious how you think Flesh Wurm should be used? In WvW you can place it I’m any safe spot on the map and it will still work. If anything flesh wurm is stronger in WvW. Unless you’re looking at using it for the DPS, I suppose. But it’s an escape exclusively in my eyes.

Even when running in a zerg and not needing an escape, it’s great fun to stick it up on top of a wall. It hits deceptively hard, even untraited. They either kill it, relieving some pressure from your group as you take down the gate/wall, or they leave it alone and take heavy hits every few seconds.

Actually…this might have been their original schedule…

Raven.9603:

youre a mesmer, top of the pvp food chain second only to condi necros. try crying about mesmers poor spec diversity and not, of all things, dem OP Ranger pets.

Umm…what? Mesmers and condition necros (heck, necros period) are not even close to the top of the PvP food chain.

The rest of your post was spot on, but this…

Muchacho.2390:

Tanky maybe in DS but our sustain in spvp is rather bad. There is a reason why positioning is so important for necromancer in spvp and why there are no viable bloodmagic builds. Those buffs will most likely bloodmagic traits which really do suck and need buffs.

Pretty sure the reason they need buffs is because they don’t suck.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ranger pets told to attack a target will track that target until recalled or the target stealths. Popping clones doesn’t phase it.

Ignoring invisibility could be the results of “Sic ’Em.” Or it could be a bug because, despite functioning almost identically, Invisibility and Stealth are actually not the same.

i’m pretty sure they’re the same, since they trigger stealth skills on thief, and revealed denies access to it.

I think stealth skills on thieves and their “when in stealth” traits are not triggered by Invisibility, though that’s the only difference. They should all be unified for simplicity.

Bursting increased the stat before the recent rune & sigil overhaul. I haven’t tested since to double-check on that.

175 Power is available on lots of runes, so it’s not really making Retaliation any more powerful. Saying that it’s a problem on one that boosts Retaliation duration is like saying Runes of Rage are problematic because they give Ferocity on Fury-boosting runes or Healing Power on Regeneration-boosting ones.

You mean like it’s so OP a Mesmer can stick an illusion on you and track you around anyway? They have the same tracking system. Ranger pets have a leash range as well that’s the same length as other AI.

Ranger pets told to attack a target will track that target until recalled or the target stealths. Popping clones doesn’t phase it.

Ignoring invisibility could be the results of “Sic ’Em.” Or it could be a bug because, despite functioning almost identically, Invisibility and Stealth are actually not the same.

Andred.1087:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

It’s a plant. Generally speaking, plants don’t have separate sexes.

Umm I dunno how to tell you this, but…

They may have male and female parts, but among most plants, the organism as a whole does not have separate sexes.

I’m aware that there are some plants (not the majority, however) where there are actually males and females.

It’s a plant. Generally speaking, plants don’t have separate sexes.

Because, as they stated, they want some feedback about the changes they’re making. Sometimes a change they’re making turns out to not be so good and the forums can come up with a better one that accomplishes the same goal. Letting us know what’s on the way, both builds up anticipation and helps them determine what makes for a better game.

Anchoku.8142:

Bhawb.7408:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

We’ll be covering mesmer and elementalist this week.

Basically, Necromancer is on the very last preview. Meaning, there is a whopping 4 days for us to give them feedback in change. Or, in more realistic terms, we are absolutely stuck with the changes they make for the next 6 months with no chance to give them feedback on how those changes might affect us. All this, despite the fact that we were voted highly in need of changes, and their track record of making highly questionable changes to the profession (or do we need to bring up Dumbfire again?).

Anet, you need to make better choices about stuff like this. I don’t care about being last, someone has to be, but you can’t give absolutely no time for feedback in addition to that.

Bhawb, I think you mistake the “preview” for feedback solicitation. The changes have probably been in the works since the last major balance patch results and were likely close to finalized weeks ago. It sux but the time for input is long past.

PS: I think we agree that Anet has consistently done the unexpected and often unhelpful in balance patches. Therefore, I am not holding my breath thinking they may actually make changes based on the forum feedback but miracles happen, even if they are exceedingly rare by definition.

No, Bhawb is mistaking ANet’s statements saying that the videos were being released as they were so there was time for discussion and feedback in between for thinking they want time for discussion and feedback.

Wait…

Kitt.2567:

following are mentioned, it does not talk about improvement of others but GS, where do you get those hidden info from?

========
Warrior

In this update, we’ll be adjusting how the warrior uses and loses adrenaline. We felt that the warrior maintained their adrenaline a little too well, in that there wasn’t a real consequence to missing with an adrenaline skill or simply keeping it from fight to fight. We’ll be adjusting adrenaline so that it’s lost if you miss with a burst ability as well as draining slowly when you exit combat. With these changes, however, we will be updating the greatsword’s adrenaline burst ability to be a cleaving, execution-style attack more fitting for the weapon. In addition to this, we’ll be updating multiple skills and traits, increasing and decreasing some adrenaline-gain abilities, and addressing multiple traits to have better effects.
The September 2014 Feature Pack is on its way, and we’re extremely excited about the balance changes it will bring!
========

Serdoc.7261:

Fairly sure MH mace, OH axe, and rifle are getting improved, it is not JUST greatsword. If all you want to do is suggest warhorn improvements, maybe change the title of this post.

Comes from the Skill Bar video segment that covered Warrior and Thief changes.

KarlusDavius.1024:

Sweet! So if we loose adrenaline when we miss, in the interest of fairness, thieves should loose stealth if they miss or get blocked, right? Right!?

While not quite the same, I’d be up for that.

Question, though: if you reflected a P/X or Shortbow attack, should that reveal? I find it hilarious when thieves nail themselves with their stealth attacks and just get the opportunity to do it again.

Bhawb.7408:

Josh Davis.6015:

I’m willing to entertain ideas/suggestions for the sign-ups and timing, but we can’t delay the first qualifier.

Would it be possible to release a text-based overview of what you would have done in the Necro/Guard previews on friday alongside the Ele/Mes changes? This would allow you guys to basically keep the same schedule for everything that is already going on, but also allow teams to have equal information for every profession.

This is probably the best method, as it also allows necros and guardians to give some feedback with at least some time before the patch. The other option is having sign-ups close post-patch, which may drive more uncertianty with the t ourney as a whole.

Credit doesn’t go to me, I was echoing the idea from Flumek in that thread. He just had it in the second half of his post.

I’ll still agree to it here, though.

Lana Del Rey.1873:

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Depends how you destroy it. Collapse it? Yeah, new one will be built. Flood it with molten aluminum? Not so much.

Eh, I did something similar, teaching the Meaty Plant Food recipe to my chef and not my huntsman. In my case, though, it’s cheaper to just get another recipe.

In big events like this, variety>quantity and strength. Torment and Confusion are rarely at cap, so you will be getting ~100% of the damage on those while possibly getting about 15% out of your bleeds. Sigils of Torment are good for adding condition damage. Epidemic is your bread and butter, though, as that makes all of the worthless bleeds everyone else puts on the adds use your condition damage on whatever they spread to.

As a necro, never use Doom sigils. You really, really don’t need it. Torment, Strength, Blood, Leeching, and Battle are probably the best ones to use for what you’re aiming for.

Dhuumfire > Close to Death for your purpose here. Chill of Death vs. Reaper’s Might is a toss-up, though.

Strangely, this is the one (and I do mean ONE) place where Signet of Vampirism is still useful. Husks have astronomical armor, but not much health. Signet of Vampirism’s active ignores armor entirely, so popping it can let you deal a very significant amount of damage to one in a very short timeframe.

And no, don’t bother with Sigil of Perception on a condition build. You always have better options.

Wethospu.6437:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

What theorycrafting? Those are hard facts about how the game works.

Always check your “facts” in game.

Fact: base burst skill cooldown is 10 seconds.

Fact: Discipline gives 5% reduced burst skill cooldown per trait point.

Fact: A maximum of 6 points can be invested in a single traitline.

Fact: 100%-30%=70%

Fact: 70% of 10 seconds is 7 seconds.

If you argue against any of the above, it’s pretty clear you don’t understand math.

However, upon testing (assuming the tooltip just hadn’t been fixed from burst mastery), we’re both wrong.

It’s 7.692 seconds (barely perceptible, but true). The line doesn’t reduce the cooldown, it increases the recharge rate. Instead of the burst recharging in 30% less time, the skill recharges in 10/13 the normal time.

That’s dumb.

Well, yeah, that’s kind of the point of nerfs: to weaken something.

Warriors will still be strong in every area of the game. This patch won’t change that.

And when was the last time you saw these traits (aside from Adrenal health, because it’s necessary for CI) even get used in tPvP?

ens.9854:

People need to stop talking about the traits as if they have no reference to how it will perform. Just look at how warrior works currently-these traits are well balanced; only a few niche builds use them in pvp but they are still just as strong as a GM should be. Any nerf to them will clearly leave them underperforming.

The tradeoff for traits is that you can’t take a different one… There’s no need to fabricate additional tradeoffs unless something is overpowered.

Tradeoffs occour both in a macro and micro scale. For these traits, the macro tradeoff is not being able to use a different trait. The micro tradeoff is how you actually use the trait. Do you burst often? Do you hold your burst for the right moment? Do you not use it at all? How quickly do you attempt to regain adrenaline after a burst?

These are all tradeoffs on the micro scale. They exist now; the upcoming adrenaline changes won’t change that. The change will come in how you evaluate these, since you will no longer be able to go “well, I missed my burst, guess I’ll instead get 15% increased damage and 130 HP/sec.” Instead, you go “is using my burst worth losing 15% damage bonus and 130 HP/sekittenil I can rebuild my adrenaline?”

Wethospu.6437:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Cygnus.6903:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The fact warriors don’t get to spam burst skills until it hits anymore is also a definite plus.

Where is this fairytale coming from? You do know burst skills have at the very least a 7 and 3/4 second cooldown right?

7 second cooldown minimum. 10 seconds base, traitline reduces this by 30%. 10 seconds-30%=7 seconds.

I have no idea where people get the idea of the additional 3/4 seconds. That may have been what it was when the cooldown was part of Burst Mastery instead of the traitline, however.

—

What makes you think your theorycrafting applies to the game at all?

What theorycrafting? Those are hard facts about how the game works.

Elidath.5679:

Rym.1469:

I may be not well-informed or wrong (…)
I think (…)

I think I see your problem here
That, plus even “just 3 or 4 hours” are a lot in a dev day, even more when people keep asking “fix that NAO”, “do you even play the game” and “why don’t you read/answer the forums??!!1”. Devs are humans, and days have a limited number of hours.
In fact, if my boss told me “do 4 more hours of work today because a client doesn’t like the schedule we announced weeks ago”, I would feel rightfully kittened.

That aside, and not targeted to someone in particular: the schedule isn’t new, why complaining know that the news is the final order of classes? Any classes beeing last would have posed the same problem of short feedback time, wouldn’kitten

Primarily because there are two schedules that are involved: the Skill Bar and the Feature Patch.

When the Skill bar videos started, it was generally figured that the time they would be put out would be a patch in October, given it’s been a 6 month cycle for feature patches. At that point, 8 weeks to cover all 8 professions would still allow for some decent time to discuss the changes.

Then halfway through the videos, it was announced that these changes were slated for the September 9 feature pack. This is when things got hairy because whoever is last effectively has only the day right before the patch for ANet to consider their feedback and change things unless the schedule for the skill bar videos was altered for the second half.

coglin.1867:

Bhawb.7408:

Dhuumfire was a player-requested change. Weakening Shroud, Terror, Reanimator/PotH, there are actually a lot of cases of them listening.

Although I agree, this were changes based on feedback, and they do listen to forum feedback, the appear to generally do this after implementing their own ideas and solution.

Flumek.9043:

@coglin
Bhawb is a cool guy who does a lot of work for the community. So forget the ideas he or anyone is promoting their favourites.
There hasnt been a class tier list thread in a while, so i cant direct you anywhere, but the tiers exist even if you live under a rock.

Are you trying to convince us or yourself? He is all over the necro forums (which isn’t a bad thing), has a necro podcast, and in his concern about when the skill bar is, has never mentioned any professions but the necromancer, and never once mentions the other profession. so you have no leg to stand on when you suggest he has no bias towards a profession or shows it favoritism.

Oh, Bhawb has bias and favoritism, but that doesn’t make his point here any less valid. If the purpose of releasing these videos in the manner they did was to gather feedback and make some last-minute changes (and according to ANet’s statements, it was), then showing the last video (regardless of which professions it contained) just four days before patch day (at the end of the day and right before the weekend, no less) is saying “Screw you, last professions, your feedback is meaningless.” There simply is no time at all to respond.

I’m sure someone else would have been equally vocal if the last video had something else besides necro.

We don’t need sweeping changes, but we do need things like siphons working through death shroud. Without that, siphons will never be good. Or they get buffed to the point of being OP. Best to let them work through death shroud, then adjust values from there.

Would possibly also be interesting for “your siphons heal allies in the area” instead. Wouldn’t be problematic for MM because it’s directly competing with Fetid Consumption (which is actually a very, very good trait).

Cygnus.6903:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The fact warriors don’t get to spam burst skills until it hits anymore is also a definite plus.

Where is this fairytale coming from? You do know burst skills have at the very least a 7 and 3/4 second cooldown right?

7 second cooldown minimum. 10 seconds base, traitline reduces this by 30%. 10 seconds-30%=7 seconds.

I have no idea where people get the idea of the additional 3/4 seconds. That may have been what it was when the cooldown was part of Burst Mastery instead of the traitline, however.

Look at what burst skills do. Do you really think it’s fair to have any of those effects on that short of a cooldown without some additional cost associated with use?

scerevisiae.1972:

Rym.1469:

So far, double sigil is a problem only on Thieves, so…..

air and fire are both on-crit sigils, when one fires it puts the other on CD. using them together is pointless.

That used to be the case. It changed a while back.

In any case, I thought the biggest complaint regarding Air/Fire was a necro in Lich Form literally one-shotting eles and thieves that had 3 boons?

Not that I mind, as it’s still very rare.

Chokolata.1870:

Necromancers fell out of team compositions because Elementalists got buffed. When Elementalists were bad Necromancers were in. There is far too much sustain and condi removal that Condition mancers are not ideal at the moment.

Not quite true. Eles had largely been replacing necros before their buffs. Mainly because Warriors had figured out that they hard-countered necros with the hambow spec and forced necros out almost entirely.

I would, however, like to second the request for having the preview notes for Guardians and Necros in text form earlier than that so it’s at least possible for some changes to be made based on feedback. Numbers adjustments are quick, and it’s always possible for them to just not implement a particular change until the patch rolls out. Implementing a different change takes significantly more time, however.

In any case, feedback between the last preview and the feature pack will have no time to be considered, as it will be preview→weekend→ Monday→patch day. Basically, just Monday for anything at all to happen.

dietzero.3514:

The only time they have ever listened after their ‘previews’ (which arethe final notes), is, I believe, Deceptive Evasion.

Weakening Shroud is another case. They previewed it as getting the ICD increased from 15 to 25 seconds, but they listened when necros asked instead for a weaker effect and no cooldown increase (we actually got the cooldown removed on the trait with the weakened effect).

Was the same patch as the Deceptive Evasion backpedal, IIRC.