Guild Wars 2

bigmonto.4215:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Without knowing anything about what you’re already running, it’s impossible to give suggestions (I can guess Dogged March, since you mentioned reduction). Given that conditions are intended to be a Warrior’s weakness, however, you really should never be great at dealing with them. Sufficient, perhaps, but not “great”.

I am not asking for suggestion. And if you are as knowledgeable as you claim about on warriors, you should absolutely know exactly what build I am using, since there really isn’t much options of traits and utilities.

Either way, NO warrior only run CI + zerker stands, they are not enough, no where near enough.

Saying “I run shouts” is like a necro saying “I run spectrals.” All that means usually is that you have two skills in a category equipped.

When you said 2/3 of your utilities are there for conditions and only one shout does anything regarding conditions, I assume Shake it Off (which is a good skill because it’s a short cooldown stunbreak) and Berserker’s Stance, plus FGJ as your third utility, given On My Mark kinda sucks and Fear Me is incredibly rarely used. That leaves your Elite (which is Signet of Rage or Warbanner, as nobody uses Juggernaut) and Healing skill (Assumed Healing Signet). Weapons for condition warrior are always Sword/Sword and Longbow. With only one active cleanse skill, and one that only removes a single condition at that, it’s no wonder you’re having issues with conditions.

Although, that does bring up the question of your chosen traits. If you’re running Dogged March (known) and Cleansing Ire (most likely) plus Shrug it Off, you shouldn’t be having issues unless your cleanse timing just sucks. Other professions get by with less in the way of cleanses and do just fine because they know when to use those cleanses.

And yes, Berserker’s Stance+Cleansing Ire is enough. If it weren’t, then the top tier Warriors would be having a lot more difficulties with conditions than they are. The Hambow build is incredibly well known and Cleansing Ire is the only cleanse in the entire build.

Gets tricky in PvP for this game because unlike in GW1 where all players were Human, in GW2, there are 5 different races. The only thing I can say there is that it would, at least, put a dampener on those all-Asura teams.

bigmonto.4215:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If Warriors had strong condition cleansing ability with heavy investment, I’d be fine with it. If you spec heavily into doing something, you should be good at it. The issue is that they need 4 points in Defense (Dogged March and Cleansing Ire) and they’re set. They have great condition resistance without using a single cleanse skill.

As a conditional warrior I run a shout heal conditional build 0/0/5/6/3

3 out of 6 of my major traits are focus on condition removal + reduction
2 out 3 utility I slot are dealing with conditions applied to me

Yet my weakness is still conditions. What do you expect people to trait or build in order to be strong against conditions?

Without knowing anything about what you’re already running, it’s impossible to give suggestions (I can guess Dogged March, since you mentioned reduction). Given that conditions are intended to be a Warrior’s weakness, however, you really should never be great at dealing with them. Sufficient, perhaps, but not “great”.

Jedge.3619:

Can you dodge an eviscerate over and over? Yes
Can you dodge bleeds once they’re on you? No

Dodges are up a lot more often then cleanses. That’s why dodge timing is essential. It takes skill. Cleanses are only up every so often. There’s always a CD for them.

Can you dodge the application of bleeds? Yes.

Hmm…

Simon.3794:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Really? How have I been proven wrong? I state that Cleansing Ire is overpowered as it currently is, present evidence, comparisons, and the fact that other options exist for Warriors. The response I get is “Cleansing Ire is fine, Warriors are still weak to conditions.” No facts, no comparisons, just “it’s fine as it is.” This is despite the fact they’re harder to kill than necros with conditions and CI is the only cleanse they’re running.

Hambows I’ve known how to beat. Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face. This is not an issue of Hambows being too difficult to beat, this is an issue of one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

let’s see

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Even without Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire is still quite strong.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

hmm

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face.

tell me how cleansing ire nullifying an intended weakness again.

How much difficulty do you have with conditions once Zerker Stance has run out? Obviously more than when it’s still up (but that’s the case with any immunity), but still far less than pretty much any other profession. And you still have zero cleanse skills equipped.

Conditions are designed to be a weakness of Warriors, yet they do the best of anyone against them without having a single cleanse skill equipped. That is why Cleansing Ire is OP.

Why was I so particular on control with Fear? Because it’s the only way a necro can stop a Warrior from using their burst skill and thus keep them from just cleanisng everything. If there were options for stun instead of Fear, you can bet I’d use them too!

Kreen.3925:

You appear to be someone who has a habit of disowning your own words. This thread is littered with examples of this. You either do this deliberately or not, again I will let you choose.

If all you have gleaned from the numerous posts here presenting counter arguments is that "nobody seems to have anything to say other than “it’s fine.” then you are economical with your reading as well. Again, that’s either deliberate or not, you choose.

Consequently the possibility of having a reasoned discussion with you is remote for reasons I am sure we are both familiar with.

Name one place where I have contradicted myself. None of my statements in this thread have done so. Taking two completely separate sentences from two completely different paragraphs which do not conflict in the slightest and then misinterpreting them to attempt have me coming off as playing my own devil’s advocate is not a way to convince anyone.

Again, saying “Options exist” and saying “only X and Y are used” do not conflict. It simply says that there are more options than are being used, which is 100% true.

The “counterarguments” have been “Cleansing Ire is fine” and “the others suck” without any sort of actual delving into why either is the case. Only one person even attempted to do an actual breakdown, regarding heal amount on Mending and cooldown on Signet of Stamina. The rest of the breakdowns were a bit nonsensical (cleansing cripple/chill/immobilize letting you “set up” a cleanse…what do you think you just did cleansing those conditions?).

Kreen.3925:

Still flogging this horse?

As others have said, combustive shot on the longbow is the issue and not CI. Fix Combustive shot and CI is fine.

In WvW you do not need just DM and CI and you are set….. sure it helps but there are plenty of WvW scenarios where you will struggle with just those. There is more to GW2 than spvp and until they decide to do different trait lines for each format then we end up with some compromises.

Do you even read back your posts. They are full of contradictions within a few sentences. That normally happens when someone is grasping and grasping and grasping….

You say the following:

The issue is that they need 4 points in Defense (Dogged March and Cleansing Ire) and they’re set. They have great condition resistance without using a single cleanse skill.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

They have multiple ways of clearing or reducing snares (the ones that are actually problematic for melee builds) without even getting into the generic condition defense.

So I assume your usage of the term “multiple ways” is just DM and CI then given you state they only need that to be successful. If you actually mean other tools then I guess your 1st quote is null and void. I will let you choose.

Niether of your interpretations is correct. Warriors have multiple ways of removing or reducing snares, which is true. Charge on Warhorn, Dogged March, Restorative Strength, and Mobile Strikes are all methods of dealing with snares.

However, while they have all of those methods, they are not all necessary (or even close to it). Dogged March+Cleansing Ire is usually more than enough and only struggles against the widest condition varieties. Still nothing equipped skill-wise to deal with conditions and yet it’s quite resilient to them with great cleansing.

Your mistake was taking two separate sentences (in separate paragraphs, even) and assuming one described a complete set of the other.

@Simon: What evidence have you offered? You say I’ve been “disproven”, but can you actually point to where? I’d love to see facts that counter my argument, but nobody seems to have anything to say other than “it’s fine.”

Really? How have I been proven wrong? I state that Cleansing Ire is overpowered as it currently is, present evidence, comparisons, and the fact that other options exist for Warriors. The response I get is “Cleansing Ire is fine, Warriors are still weak to conditions.” No facts, no comparisons, just “it’s fine as it is.” This is despite the fact they’re harder to kill than necros with conditions and CI is the only cleanse they’re running.

Hambows I’ve known how to beat. Run off during Zerker Stance, then come back and control the crap out of them with Fears (corrupting Balanced Stance) while I smack them in their face. This is not an issue of Hambows being too difficult to beat, this is an issue of one trait completely nullifying an intended weakness of the class.

Simon.3794:

it is funny because you weren’t even there when warriors were bad nor when warriors received their buffs, you just assume that and question the inability of top players’ judgement towards warrior from the past,
while pulling some random skills, pretend like they work that way and thinking no one has ever tested these things and tried to make them viable anyhow,
only shows how low tier you are.

It’s funny that you assume someone who has been playing since beta weekend 2 knows nothing about where Warriors were compared to where they are now. They had a lot more buffs than even you seem to remember, or did you not know that Hammer actually got a load of buffs since launch because it was considered too weak? They rolled some of those buffs back recently.

Those skills and traits are not “random.” They are cleansing options that Warriors (and only Warriors) have and, when I do play my Warrior, are plenty to keep me from feeling weak to conditions. But, I’ve only seen Cleansing Ire used and once (just once) Shake it Off by others. Why? Because it is so strong, they don’t even have to really spec into defense against their designed weakness.

If Warriors had strong condition cleansing ability with heavy investment, I’d be fine with it. If you spec heavily into doing something, you should be good at it. The issue is that they need 4 points in Defense (Dogged March and Cleansing Ire) and they’re set. They have great condition resistance without using a single cleanse skill.

I have an incredibly difficult time believing that Warriors right now are actually weak to conditions. They have multiple ways of clearing or reducing snares (the ones that are actually problematic for melee builds) without even getting into the generic condition defense.

Prysin.8542:

TheDevice.2751:

No other class has been nerfed like the Necromancer.

Ranger wins the nerf battle hands down, closely followed by necro then ele….

Look at patch notes for the past 2 years. Guess who gets a nerf in 90% of the threads…

Unless you look back to Beta. Necros nearly got Smiter’s Booned from beta to launch.

If you want to know what I mean, go to the Guild Wars 1 wiki and look up the PvE and PvP versions of “Smiter’s Boon.”

Here’s the way I see thing happening if Cleansing Ire gets an ICD on cleanse:

1. Warriors become less popular for a while as people whine about how they have no cleansing options.

2. Some people adapt, realizing that they do, in fact, have cleansing options.

3. Several months later, the new “meta” builds incorporate some alternative cleansing options or admit to having a weakness to conditions.

4. People realize that actual weaknesses should exist in every build. If they don’t have actual weaknesses, they shouldn’t have actual strengths either.

Granted, step 4 will never happen with the vast majority, because they always want their own build to not have weaknesses.

But, given that the following exist for Warrior condition cleansing, but are never used because CI makes them unnecessary, saying “no other options” is flat-out false.

Charge: removes Cripple, Chill, and Immobilize
Mending (3 conditions removed, 20 second cooldown)
Signet of Stamina (all conditions removed, 45 second cooldown, useful passive to let you avoid applications more often)
“Shake it Off!” (1 condition removed AoE, stunbreak, 20 second cooldown, will remove Fear+1 condition)
Restorative Strength (activating a heal skill removes cripple, chill, immobilize, and weakness, applies before healing skill’s effects, so Mending removes those 4 plus 3 others)
Shrug it Off (automatic “Shake it Off!” when affected by 2 or more conditions)
Quick Breathing (Warhorn skills convert a condition to a boon)

If you’re that worried about conditions, you have options aplenty. Heck, 2 points in the Power line + Mending gives you a potential 7 condition cleanse on a 20 second cooldown. That’s insanely efficient.

Ilias.8647:

jportell.2197:

…Heard you like bullet points so.

• Warriors get too much condition cleansing thanks to the synergizing of cleansing ire an burst mastery.

• If using burst mastery warriors should only cleanse conditions equal to the actual amount of adrenaline spent. OR

• Cleansing Ire gets a 15s ICD. Moving it up a tier won’t help since people will just trait merciless hammer in master and cleansing ire in GM.

I am feeling you are focusing too much on a single point, loosing the bigger picture.

For sure Warrior’s ability to cleanse conditions isn’t close to where it was when game launched. Still, going both for Burst Mastery AND Cleansing Ire requires you to spend 10 of the total 14 ability points… which somewhat restricts your build to certain things.

In other words, having superior condition cleanse while trading off some of your attack or defense potential seems a valid thing. So, while you can cleanse conditions easier you are more vulnerable to other things.

Burst Mastery isn’t really necessary, though. All that lets you do is burst-swap-burst for 4-5 conditions cleansed instead of just 3. Cleansing Ire is all that’s important because you’re full on adrenaline by the time a single burst cooldown is up anyway.

Carighan.6758:

Arrow.4619:

Adding stability as a utility skill option for classes that currently lack it would be trivial to implement, reasonable and not unbalancing. You don’t even have to be particularly generous with the stability provided by the skill. Say 5-6 seconds with a 60 second CD.

But, how come you are even in a situation where everyone wants personal access to stability in the first place? Aren’t you fixing a symptom instead of the underlying issue?

Not really, no. It isn’t an issue if some people build for high CC if they themselves don’t have the best damage (Warriors would fall into this category, except for Strength Runes right now). They can keep you locked down, but not a whole lot else. Likewise, it isn’t an issue if multiple people CC chain you to death. They worked together and coordinated. They should be rewarded.

What is an issue is that some classes don’t have reasonable methods of responding to that. Especially necros, since they don’t have methods of avoiding the CC attacks in the first place and very long stunbreak cooldowns (average of 54 seconds untraited, 43.2 seconds traited).

What about a beneficial trap? Requires enemies to trigger, but gives a benefit to allies in a certain radius? Best used to turn a ZvZ fight around or give defenders an edge.

TheDevice.2751:

Jerus.4350:

As a guard the only thing that frustrates me is the Warriors ability to turn tail and run… you’re freakin warriors, get back here and fight!

You’re mistaken.. They are not warriors; they are pansies. Necromancers are the true warriros.

No other class has to stay and fight until the end like a Necromancer

No other class has to take the full effects of cc like the Necromancer.

No other class has been nerfed like the Necromancer.

No other class has to be focus-fired in every fight like the Necromancer.

Warriors are little princess wusses who can run and hide from a fight just like any other class in the game………… Except for a NECROMANCER.

Don’t ever say a warrior is the man-class of this game.. It’s the necromancer.

The Necro answer to anything? TAKE IT LIKE A MAN!*

*: Actual gender of the character or player is irrelevant to this strategy.

Hence why my suggestions are only bits of healing that is coming to the necro anyway. It’s small amounts that the necro can’t turn off, but it’s still driven by the necro himself. The only exception to this is my suggestion for the Regeneration boon, but that’s because nobody should be immune to a boon. Right now, having Regeneration on you while in death shroud is actually a complete liability.

bigmonto.4215:

alamore.1974:

Healing surge refills your adrenaline(try playing it.instead of HS), I use healing surge, eviscerate combo all the time
As for healing surge, stage 2 is a good heal stage 3 is a great heal
What healing sig does is give wars good sustain food against condi damage were surge is best against spike damage.

You can’t be serious on wasting healing for the adrenaline gain. Unless you are talking about noob stomp or you are running with a group and you not getting hit. Either way this sentiment is not share among most. As I said there is a reason why warrior were the bottom of the barrel before healing signet buff. If healing surge is as good as you say, why was warrior’s sustain that bad before?

Because the “healing signet buff” also came alongside Berserker’s Stance getting changed to be immunity to conditions and Cleansing Ire’s current functionality. Three massive improvements, only one of which had any relation to a healing skill which wasn’t taken before because it was just so much worse than Healing Surge.

bigmonto.4215:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

bigmonto.4215:

It’s a weakness compare to other classes.

Warrior need to manage it, it means getting certain traits, or use certain skills. Burst has cooldown and requires Adrenaline. Can you activate LB F1 and SW F1 right after? Only if you take burst mastery, and only if you have 3 stages of Adrenaline when you activate LB F1. Otherwise no.

Other classes’ skills are only cooldown based.

Can Guardian activate virtures back-to-back? yes.
Can Elementalist activate different attunements back-to-back? yes
…

If you take no traits to improve Adrenaline generation. It requires warrior to hit 30 times. That is not easy to do on a ranged character. In PVE, this is a non-issue, since you don’t even use burst. I admit CI does save our butt here, but we have to get hit often to make CI adrenaline generation meaningful. This and that we have no large burst heal is one reason why warrior is weak against bursts.

You do realize you have options besides Healing Signet, right? Healing Surge and Defiant Stance are both very effective heals against burst.

You do realize the heal on these are a joke right?

Healing Surge has a very strong heal at stage 2&3 adrenaline. Defiant Stance is used to negate the burst entirely and is a potentially infinite heal amount. Bare minimum, it’s 3 seconds that you are guaranteed to survive.

bigmonto.4215:

It’s a weakness compare to other classes.

Warrior need to manage it, it means getting certain traits, or use certain skills. Burst has cooldown and requires Adrenaline. Can you activate LB F1 and SW F1 right after? Only if you take burst mastery, and only if you have 3 stages of Adrenaline when you activate LB F1. Otherwise no.

Other classes’ skills are only cooldown based.

Can Guardian activate virtures back-to-back? yes.
Can Elementalist activate different attunements back-to-back? yes
…

If you take no traits to improve Adrenaline generation. It requires warrior to hit 30 times. That is not easy to do on a ranged character. In PVE, this is a non-issue, since you don’t even use burst. I admit CI does save our butt here, but we have to get hit often to make CI adrenaline generation meaningful. This and that we have no large burst heal is one reason why warrior is weak against bursts.

You do realize you have options besides Healing Signet, right? Healing Surge and Defiant Stance are both very effective heals against burst.

Straegen.2938:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Direct damage is even more “fire and forget”. Once you land your hits, you’re completely done with it. You don’t even have to worry about cleanses, you are literally completely done with those attacks.

The thing is, once you load up a target with a number of conditions, you could have just killed them in the same number of hits from a Power build.

Most direct damage builds have to be in melee range of their target navigating evades, invulns, blocks, stuns, immobilizes, etc to land those big hits. To even get big hits the player has to sacrifice survival of some sort. Sure once they get to the target, they land a direct active blow but that shot is mitigated by toughness and armor.

And everything you said here also applies to condition builds outside of melee (most are ranged, Warrior condi builds aren’t, though) and armor. Condition builds also have to land their hits through blinds, blocks, evades, invulnerabilities, etc. To get high damage, they have to sacrifice survivability, but this tradeoff is even more disadvantageous for the condition build because they don’t have the option to kill their target before defense is a problem.

There are also ranged Power builds available for everyone except necro (their ranged power options are Life Blast and that’s it) which negate the “melee” problem. Even most melee builds have gap closers where the gap closer portion can’t be avoided.

Jedge.3619:

The main reason condition builds are overpowered is its “fire and forget” once you get the condi bomb or any amount of condis on someone you can move to a different target and you’ll still deal damage – even if your target is running away…you’re still dealing damage.

With direct damage, you have to be active with your skills. However, things like confusion/torment will hurt your ability to kite.

Direct damage is even more “fire and forget”. Once you land your hits, you’re completely done with it. You don’t even have to worry about cleanses, you are literally completely done with those attacks.

The thing is, once you load up a target with a number of conditions, you could have just killed them in the same number of hits from a Power build.

My suggestion? Do the Clovers first. Even when you fail, you’ll usually get something you need anyway.

Do your dailies and monthlies. 1 Laurel will net you a T6 crafting bag containing 3 randomized materials that your WILL need for your Legendary (because it’s the 8 used for gifts of Might and Magic). I can’t tell you how much money I saved doing that.

neonreaper.4805:

When I’m playing, a lot of people end up with Feast of Clam Cakes

Hey, it’s better than nothing!

Bowl of Seaweed Salad is getting more popularity because it’s so strong. I also like using candied dragon rolls.

Since when have Necros started out with a full bar? They have to build up their life force. The only difference is that they can save it between fights.

And yes, on Mesmer, the “resource management” has always been and always will be illusions (both clones and phanstasms).

Both Necros and Mesmers have to use particular skills to get their resources up and also have to work to maintain it. Warriors can use any attack skill they like and Adrenaline fills. Warriors also have two skill options that instantly fill Adrenaline and two more that do so over time. Mesmers need 2 skills minimum to fill their quota and necros frequently need 10 or more!

Adrenaline is dead easy to fill and honestly not hard to just go without caring about it most of the time.

Julie Yann.5379:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I wouldn’t complain about Warriors if they had meaningful weaknesses. I know they’re not THE best in almost any category (other than having to do the least actively to stay alive), but they’re pretty good in all of them, #4 (out of at worst.

I’d be happy if ANet made their intended weaknesses actual weaknesses and made their intended strengths a bit stronger. For example, their cleansing ability (an intended weakness) should not be on-par with Necros (their intended strength).

We used to have that but people whined about warriors strengths being to strong (people would get insta gibbed) and they nerfed our damage, and nerfed our damage and nerfed our damage until our DPS was is reasonable range but by then our weaknesses were too strong and we couldn’t stay alive long enough to kill anybody. So Anet decided to buff our defenses but instead of doing it incrementally they threw it all in at once. Then people complained that we can’t be killed and that we still hit too hard so the nerfed our damage and nerfed our damage and nerfed our healing. People are still crying and they will keep crying until warriors are back were they belong, standing beside rangers as free kills.

You assume I was one of them complaining about Warrior damage output. I’ve never had issues with their damage or control options (though Pin Down and Skull Crack did need the increased cast times and readability). Those are what Warriors are supposed to be strong at.

Better idea: make more of the condition removal skills work like those a Thief has: Withdraw/Roll for Initiative removes the movement-inhibiting ones, Hide in Shadows removes DoT’s (other than Torment).

In other words: make cleanses more specific in what they cleanse. Choices get made and create build variety.

I wouldn’t complain about Warriors if they had meaningful weaknesses. I know they’re not THE best in almost any category (other than having to do the least actively to stay alive), but they’re pretty good in all of them, #4 (out of at worst.

I’d be happy if ANet made their intended weaknesses actual weaknesses and made their intended strengths a bit stronger. For example, their cleansing ability (an intended weakness) should not be on-par with Necros (their intended strength).

Condition damage is countered by condition removal (and just killing the condition user quickly so they can’t build stacks). But how would they counterplay condition removal? The answer: overload cleanses.

That’s realistically the only way it can work.

That said, even the fastest “condition burst” takes at least 15 seconds to kill anyone, which is pretty darn slow for “burst.” If you’re taking 3k damage condition ticks, it’s because you let your opponent land several attacks on you. If you did that against a Power build (even Soldier’s gear), you would already be dead.

Only if Vulnerability increases condition damage dealt.

Nothing multiplies condition damage, either in a positive or negative direction. This is fine for balance.

Note: Sigil of Bursting multiplies the condition damage stat, not the actual damage dealt.

Simon.3794:

talking about adrenaline, heres a quote shows how little you know about this class.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Adrenaline as a weakness…lol! There’s nothing a Warrior has to do to keep his adrenaline up. He just fights and it happens. Necromancers and Mesmers, now they have resource management as a weakness. Warriors? Yeah right.

which brings me to one of my favorite quote from another game’s forum

it amazes me how someone can be so condescending towards others, when he himself has not tried the build yet, nor does he know anything about how the associated-skills work.

i seriously don’t know why you are still arguing. i already proved how wrong you are before this comment.

Strange, then, that on my warrior I never have an issue building up adrenaline to get stage 2 or 3 burst skills on cooldown. Cleansing Ire itself provides at least 1 bar each time.

Thief does. Followed closely by Warrior.

Price is expected if you can only get them off the TP now. A shame, but remember what happened to the price of Azurite orbs?

Getting the Zealot’s Inscription recipe is easy. But, when I open up the weapon recipe to choose the associated stats, Zealot’s isn’t on the list.

Am I just missing something, or is the craftable inscription just useless?

bigmonto.4215:

Brando.1374:

actually they run -% duration food/runes for status affecting conditions (immo, cripple, chill) Also because they wont have to worry about active condi clear and go more offensive in their traits/utilites.

Actually they run -% duration food/runes to counter all conditions, especially the +% duration condition foods. And yes they still do worry about active condi clear. Do you see any warrior without CI or Zerker stands or both? Even these are not enough.

In zergs, Warriors actually will frequently run neither, opting instead for shout-based specs as they provide better group power. In duels, For Great Justice isn’t great, but it provides perma 15 stacks of might in a zerg and serves as AoE healing when traited. “Shake it Off” is the shortest cooldown stunbreak in the entire game and serves as AoE condition clear and healing. Runes that gets uesed are Melandru runes which reduce stun duration as well. You know, what the entire hammertrain is devoted to?

Given the Eles dropping Cleansing Rain and the Guardians running Pure of Voice, conditions are very rarely an issue in zergs, even without accounting for food.

Roe.3679:

I’m guessing this is an EOTM inspired post. And in your defense they need to add a red outline to enemy spectral walls. But otherwise I doubt much gets done about this since its a wall skill and they have no limits on how many people they can hit.

The red line is there on enemy Spectral Walls. It can be hard to see in the middle of action, but it’s definitely there.

Part of the ways they are balanced against ignoring Protection, weakness, and armor is because they don’t benefit from any multipliers either.

What are you doing getting between a necro and a cliff edge? Pretty sure everyone knew that’s suicide.

Jeknar.6184:

Ezeriel.9574:

…so that’s everyone, but necros, and besides their heal and offhand dagger, they have the hardest time dealing with conditions, since they have to fight the longest (attrition), so they get condi-bombed the most.

Dagger 4, Staff 4, Consume Conditions, Signet of Plague, Facetank condi damage with Deathshroud.

Necros what?

Necros don’t get conditions. They get ammo.

Bhawb.7408:

10/10 post

Nah, 11/10 post.

You seem to be misinformed on a few things.

1. Capitalization and punctuation: These are very important for discerning when you have completed a thought and are transitioning to the next one. The next thought should be related, but it is still a distinct entity and should be treated as such. They also help organize your thoughts in a presentable way for other people to understand them.

2. Grammar: Jumbling words together does not make for an understandable thought. Structuring your sentences properly helps other people in identifying your ideas and prevents misunderstandings.

3. Spelling: Organizing your words properly does not mean a thing unless others know what your words are. Correct spelling means other can read exactly what it is you are trying to say. For example, it is spelled “charade” not “sharade.”

TLDR: Until you present your arguments properly, you will always be mocked because the hairball my cat just threw up is a more understandable argument.

I apologize, Polita. The wording wasn’t the most clear and I misinterpreted it.

@Olba: And nobody runs Warhorn/Shouts because of Cleansing Ire. Warriors, have pretty good cleansing options besides CI, but CI makes them irrelevant because you can throw the rest of your trait points into offense and use none of your actual skill slots for cleansing. CI gets a cooldown, and now you will have to actually make a choice. Do you want your skills and traits free, or do you want more cleansing? Right now, you get to choose both.

“Blind stops CI” is a joke. Yeah, it prevents the attack from hitting, but only Thief and Ele have viable builds with blinds that can be used to react to burst skills (outside of kill shot). You know what happens when you miss? You keep all your adrenaline and can try again in 7-10 seconds (less if you weapon swap). Try just tossing an auto-attack before you burst if you got blinded. It works wonders.

Also, the sigils of purity and generosity no longer go on cooldown if no conditions are removed. It would be simple enough to code CI to not go on cooldown unless it removed conditions. However, even if it did start the cooldown without cleansing anything, it would not be as bad because you can control exactly when your Burst skill goes off. The sigils are not something you can control. Active cleanses, if used with no conditions, still go on cooldown. Cleansing Ire just turns your Burst skill into an active cleanse. You don’t want it on CD before you have something to cleanse? Don’t use your cleanse with no conditions!

And here I want better rewards for successfully defending. I’ll give ANet credit for season 2, this time the achievements weren’t all based around taking things and encouraged holding locations instead.

Pin Down helps a lot, and besides that, Longbow is a very solid weapon even without CI. Gap closing isn’t that necessary when you engage at 1000 range.

Cleansing Ire kinda negates the “low condition removal/can be overwhelmed by conditions” weaknesses on its own.

Adrenaline as a weakness…lol! There’s nothing a Warrior has to do to keep his adrenaline up. He just fights and it happens. Necromancers and Mesmers, now they have resource management as a weakness. Warriors? Yeah right.

Liewec.2896:

Bhawb.7408:

Liewec.2896:

i always found it strange that necro dagger doesn’t cleave.
as the OP said, every other profession has the ability to cleave in melee (and most of them are alot more powerful than necro dagger attacks).

Necro dagger is one of the highest DPS in the game, so not really.

no, no with an extra helping of NO.
compare it to warrior greatsword damage for example,
the warrior will deal a hell of a lot more damage and his attacks cleave.

Per-hit, true, but necro dagger attacks so much faster that it does have the superior DPS.

Bran.7425:

Don’t the marks, even with a condition aspect, have decent coefficients?

Only Putrid Mark does (1.2 coefficient). The rest are pretty low (Chillblains scales second-highest at .5).

I never stated “Cleansing Ire alone is enough defense agaisnt conditions” I said it was the only cleanse you needed because it is just that strong. Berserker Stance doesn’t cleanse conditions. Ever.

Even without Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire is still quite strong.

And I did not come up with the idea of condition overload being a Warrior weakness, nor did I come up with “adrenaline reliance” as a weakness. ArenaNet did. Watch Ready Up #16 if you want proof of that statement.

I think Healing Signet needs an overhaul, really. Shy of that, reduced base value and increased scaling on the passive is a decent move that most people can agree would be good.

I think some of you are misunderstanding my disclaimer at the top. I’m not arguing in favor of a nerf because I want to kill Warriors. I know how to do that and don’t complain when I get beaten because I know the Hambow strengths line up perfectly with necro weaknesses. I can still win, I just have to out-play them to a larger degree than other opponents. Such is the nature of counters.

What I’m arguing for is a nerf to Cleansing Ire because the one trait alone negates a designed weakness of the class and is currently so strong it negates the need for any other cleansing.

Even necros have difficulty maintaining four conditions. Two is easy, three is stretching it. Four requires very significant effort. But four conditions must be maintained against CI because otherwise, every burst skill wipes pretty much all of it out.

There is a difference between “applying” and “maintaining,” though. Application of a half dozen conditions is easy. Keeping them on a target for more than a few seconds is tough.

Have you tried? Warriors have decent condition clearing options available without Cleansing Ire, but they don’t need to take them because Cleansing Ire is just that strong. Take the popular Hambow build. It runs 0 cleansing outside of CI, but is nigh impossible to bring down with conditions if played even remotely intelligently.

So, this kinda proves that CI is too strong as it is, as it alone can replace all the rest of a Warrior’s cleansing and then some.

Tell me, what methods do any other professions have for 3 conditions cleared on a 10 second cooldown? It’s an active cleanse. It should be balanced as such.