Guild Wars 2

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Attunement
Poster above me! ;P

I think too many people tend to blow off scepter dagger too quickly, much like I did my first go round with it. If you force yourself to wear each weapon set for at least a weeks worth of playtime and really look at the abilities and how they interact with each other between the elements you will start to understand why so many like what we like.

D/D is a lot of fun and I do spend some time with it while soloing, but seriously stay away from it in a group.

Your best chances in a group are with defensive and supportive abilities and set up, at least until you know the dungeons better. Each dungeon will work best with a different weapon type as well, so knowing them will do you worlds of good.

I have even found myself with a scepter/focus when my group build called for it.
You need to know what your group is running with, what support and cc, fields and finisher they offer and work from there. Keep in mind as an Elementalist you bring the absolute MOST (out of all the classes) fields and finishers for comboing for your group, playing those and getting good at them will be a HUGE asset to a group.

All in all I think any Elementalist would do best to have every weapon available to them while running dungeons.

There is no class that is “Too hard to learn to play”
I mean, is this what people are seriously saying? “Omg, it is too hard, it isnt fair! Make it easier!?” Are you serious? And this is taken into serious consideration by the player base? Really? Do you know how completely ignorant that sounds? No, do not make the players (or anyone for that matter) learn anything new, no, lets force everyone else down. How is “too hard to play” not laughed out of any game forums?

I have a movie for you folks, a movie that I think may actually be a prediction for the future instead of an attempt at comedy. It is called Idiocracy. Watch it, hopefully you will discover how stupid you sound when you say “it is too hard to learn to play” or think that it is a legitimate reason to rework a class or anything in a game.

Ow my brain…time to leave these forums and drink, it is killing me attempting to think down to this lvl.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Efaicia.3672:

Hickeroar, Deaths and repairs aren’t too bad when you quit dying wink. If someone wont stop dying, well, thats not the games fault.

I guess you just ignored the whole section of my post when I mentioned repeated death in dungeons in context of running the dungeon with less experienced leveled players who at lower levels and thus have less risk in terms of cost of armor repair. I’ve run the same dungeon with similar level players and dropped to down state three times, only died once. If you’re going to respond it would be nice if you would understand the comments.
I believe you missed my entire point

No, I neither ignored it nor failed to understand it. It seems to me that you failed to understand that section of my post where I said “If the player wont stop dying, that is not the games fault.”

Hickeroar, Deaths and repairs aren’t too bad when you quit dying wink. If someone wont stop dying, well, thats not the games fault.

Elementalist is great for group play, you just have to know how to play WITH classes you are grouped with, not just beside them or competing with them. This isn’t WoW folks or any other “parse my dps” game, theres more to it than whether or not you can out dps another class.

Neither a gaurdian nor a warrior can play combos like an Elementalist can.

Trying to make yourself look smart by correcting grammar only makes you look that much more dumb when you STILL fail to comprehend tactics that are different than what you are used to.

I was in WvW last night for about 4 hours on my Ele and just loving every minute of it. Granted I go in with my guild and we are organized. However there were a couple of times that I got cut off from the rest, I held my own and chipped away the health of about 4 people who had chased me down, with my guildies running to my rescue of course, they still manged to get there just as the last one fell and I am gulping air tio catch my breath.

kittened this class is strong I said LOL. 4 people chasing me as I kite them … me killing them one by one.

Oh yes, buff my damage please Anet, Oh please, please do. evil laugh

o.O ^^^^^ the post above me is confusing.

1. People CAN play the way they like. Every person. Easy mode lovers are not the only people out there. So they made something hard too. For those people to play the way they like. Easy mode has the rest of the game. Quit making yourself look like a spoiled brat who not only wants it all but refuses to put forth any amount of effort to learn anything new to get it.
2. No one said ArenaNet doesn’t make mistakes, they only pointed out that the strategy required in dungeons is not one of them, it is you who needs to change, not the dungeons. To add to this, people need to realize giving in to a spoiled rotten screaming infant is not “admitting you were wrong” it is doing something to shut them the hell up.
3. You do not need to “use 400-level food, and buy exotic weapons to complete a level 30 story mode dungeon.” I am in crafted gear (that I made myself, with mats I collected myself just from exploring the maps) with weapons I have found in open World events and have had ZERO issues completing any story mode. Again, it is no one elses issue if you cannot understand new mechanics or refuse to try anything new. Nor did I spend 30 silver on repairs…ever…from a dungeon.

RavenDeBlade.1670:

But Anet REALLY need to fix this dungeon because its not doable with a PUG group, and its not doable with Green/Blue items. If you need Exotics to do it them its wrong because WHY would you do it if you already have better equipement already?

You DO realize that you can get THE EXACT SAME stats on crafted gear, right. You DO REALIZE that the ONLY reason to do these is for aesthetic reasons. Everything that comes out of the dungeon has an equivalent that can be obtained in another fashion, the only difference being the way they look.

These dungeons are not meant to be puggable, at all, ever, in any way shape or form. PERIOD.
If you do nto liek them, guess what? you don’t have to do them. If you think it is too much of a grind to get the gear, thats fine, you can get the same stats on gear much easier to obtain. No one is forcing you to do these rediculously hard, and incrdibly long dungeons. You do not have to do them. At all, ever. People who DO overcome them are given nothing but bragging rights.

Other games do this with the holy trinity group build. GW2 doesn’t, maybe thats your real confusion. If you are not intelligent enough to figure out how to overcome these obstacles using GW2 group dynamics then that is your own problem, no one elses. What you need to do is quit vomiting forth the same crap you see everyone else saying and instead form your own thoughts. Just because you say a thing over and over and over again does not make it true, no matter how many people repeat the same mantra, still does not make it true. It just makes you a sheeple, incapable of forming your own thoughts and opinions.

Here is my Ele…

Kyros, it seems I know you from somewhere, from eq2 maybe? o.O

I agree, Ele is hella strong, I love it and cannot understand the majority of complaints I see. shrug
No matter what it is “percieved” to be.

If there is anything they need to fix about Ele it is air, with scepter it bugs out and I am stuck casting the auto attack, and it is fairly weak. With staff only being usefull for the field and the blind. There are SOME good abilities with air in a few of the weapons but I think the overall damage is lacking.

Grinding for fashion. They are true Divas! lol.

I think you are confusing the term team play, and thinking it means you have to have some semblance of the holy trinity.

Rift is a completely different game with a completely different set of rules, if you tried to bring that type of dungeon finder to this game, the crying on the forums would be beyond ludicrous about how they need to rebalance for groups with No desire for communication or to be strategic.

I don’t mind and in fact agree with some enhancements to the current LFG tool, but nothing in line with what Rift or WoW have in place. Ever.

I still run dungeons, I try to run at least 1 a night, sometimes it is all I have time for with my family stuff going on, but I love them and have a blast every time I am in one.

When I sw his tail cut off I said ..“Oh dear God, are the extremeties he just lost going to turn into little dragons that he sends to us??” stunned but alas…they just fell away. Then, someone in group says ’Oh the dragon is going godzilla!" and I thought, “oh here we go, better get ready for insta-death” cower ..yet nothing…nothing happened. Then we discover the cannons can be used to shoot the dragon, oh, well this should trigger a response from him right? maybe Anet has taken pitty on us and given us a moment to discover this before the actual battle begins…then I just waited and waited …and waited….

Love this game Anet, you have doen a spectacular job thus far, what happened here?

All I see is a cop out disguised as an insult. Why don’t we go into the reasons you as a ranger feel you cannot utilize this games actual mechanics for group dynamics? I mean if you are talking about the bug where you’re stuck using your auto attack and it prevents you from casting anything else or dodging then that is an issue, meant to be bug reported. Elementalist have the same issue in air with scepter, it still does not prevent me from using it when I need to. Even though I cannot change weapons in combat. o.O

Sean.1897:

Oh my god, please tell me you aren’t implying that I use a greatsword in DUNGEONS as a ranger just to satisfy your argument because instead of looking intelligent all you’re doing is looking ignorant about the current state of the game and of rangers.

You have the ability to switch weapons on the fly, no? Just because you equip a weapon to trigger a combo does not mean you have to use it the entire time you are in the dungeon. As far as I know elementalists are the only ones who cannot switch weapons in combat… Are you meaning to say that you do not utilize one of this games most important mechanics? Are you seriously stubbornly refusing to use something available to you because you are “dps”? Like I said before, if you are not willing to learn a new games very new mechanics why are you complaining?

Sean.1897:

Efaicia.3672:

And please, don’t come back and say none of these things prevent instagibs, or I will be forced to tell you that if the mob is instagibbing you, he is probably using an ability that is more than likely 1. avoidable in an obvious way or 2. meant to be stopped in some way (maybe a boulder or something else laying around that can be used?)

SE Grenadiers
Subject Alpha’s spammy rock spikes that WILL eventually hit you
Subject Alpha encasing and simultaneously slamming you with an AoE
Subject Alpha’s 10 minutes of health (can you tell I don’t like him yet?)
Kudu’s killshot
Arah Airship event
CoE champion destroyer crab fire patch
CoE front door path destroyer boss
CoF new door event
The boss in HotW with the birds (Butcher?). Likes to bug out and get stuck on a pillar and cast ranger birds while being glitched invulnerable. Pretty fun, I might add.
Rumblus and his 180 degree scream of death as he runs around the room derpderpderp can’t even predict who he is going to spew all over
GIGANTICUS LUPICUS

Most of my experience is with CoE, I’m convinced that no one at Anet had run through this dungeon.

Edit: I might add, I play a ranger. I don’t bring jack to groups beyond water and sometimes fire fields. It’s a good thing regeneration is amazing, right? That must totally be my fault that my class severely lacks in synergy. My bad.

Rangers have 4 fields and 15 finishers. Fields aren’t worth much without finishers, so don’t say you don’t bring anything to a group. 2 of your finishers are leap finishers, leap finishers are the ones that provide the shields for a group, type dependant on the field you use them in. Your fields are 2 fire, 1 ice and 1 water, fire providing burns (and fire shield), ice providing aoe slows (and ice shield) and water providing healing usable by anyone with a blast finisher. Looks like you bring more than you thought you did?

Another helpful link;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AspOlN5QiiHTdFZvYm1hei0yTVBsZnV2SW56cnI4NEE#gid=0

I see a lot of insulting in this thread, a lot of mouthing off to people doing nothing but offering advice, statements like “I’ll play how I want, thanks”.
Really? You’ll play how you want and then come to the forums and complain that the dungeons are no fun mobs have too much health and they one shot you? Ok, fine. Play how you want, just don’t expect anyone to take you seriously anymore, since you have already shown your refusal to attempt to learn mechanics that are not based around a holy trinity group. Thats not even considering the mob you were fighting, and what the fight was about. Do you know what it was about?

And then I see a gaurdian who is adament that he is a “condition” gaurdian going on and on and sounding fairly intelligent, however fails to mention anywhere in his post how he is using another classes fields to grant his entire group one of several magical shields he is capable of granting. I wonder if he knows he can do that and prevent some of these deaths? Or if he knows that he has the ability to grant hp regen to everyone with another of his abilities in yet another field? Or if he knows he can add stacks of poison on the mob to increase damage done to it? Does this person know he also has the ability to create an area wide blind?

Here is a helpful tool to discover what you are really capable of in a group.
And also might explain why dungeons are balanced the way they are.
http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/editorials/combo-fields-and-finishers

And please, don’t come back and say none of these things prevent instagibs, or I will be forced to tell you that if the mob is instagibbing you, he is probably using an ability that is more than likely 1. avoidable in an obvious way or 2. meant to be stopped in some way (maybe a boulder or something else laying around that can be used?)

Staff is always a safe sollution if you are running with people who have a lot of finishers for your fields, this is something you still have to consider as it plays a huge role in groups. If not scepter/focus is very defensive and offers silences, reflects, shields, stone skin and a projectile eliminator. Scepter/dagger will offer more mobility while still giving you several blasts to use in someone elses or your own fields while still giving you 2 blinds. Being stuck with one weapon set is the worst possible thing you can do.

“Cassual” does not mean they should not be required to learn game mechanics though and that is the single solitary reason people are having so many issues with the dungeons right now, they are still talking in terms of “tanky specs”, “healy specs” and what “role” they are trying to fill, this right there tells me and others who have finaly figured it out that they have not yet, thats not even including their lack of utilizing or even KNOWING about combos fields and finishers. No one told me about them, the thrill of discovery and OH COOL! was there when I read my abilities and said “what does that mean?” and so started experimenting, then started searching abotu what ELSE they can do.

These are the mechanics of this game, once you learn them and use them, the story modes are beyond easy and do not need to be adjusted.

Is that not what you do? Log in and Play? Thats what I do. Thats what everyone has done so far in this game. But if you SERIOUSLY believe that the crying about how hard dungeons are is bad now, wait until you see what happens after a dungeon finder is implimented. I honestly would hate to put our already abused developers through that.

The best one I have ever seen was in Aion. Where the group leader could link their group and who was in it in chat to find more.

Destroyed is subjective. LFG destroyed Rift for me as the developers had to specifically dumb down the dungeons to accomidate the lack of coorditation and random classes thrown together in their dungeon finder and so made my chosen role of support absolutely useless in the aspect of the game I favored most. I stopped my subscription shortly thereafter.

It did not however destroy the game for the aoe facemash zerg crowd as that is what the dungeons were turned into to accomidate the dungeon finder.

So I guess yet again, it is up to ArenaNet and what they want their game turned into.

shaidyn.4016:

Why don’t you see more people on the forums saying how happy they are? Because they’re all in game, having fun. The only reason I show up on the forums so much is to be a voice of positivity for the developers. I think they’re doing a good job, and I want them to know it.

I’m on the forums now because I am at work and cannot be in game sadface When I am home I am much, MUCH too busy with family and then game to read forums ;P

Tharjax.9068:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

there are currently no plans to implement a dungeon finder.

If you are having trouble finding groups for dungeons, you can use our LFG system. Open up your contacts menu in-game, and there should be an option in there for grouping. That way it’s not just people standing out in front of dungeons shouting LFG until someone invites them. This system does not stretch across servers, or to other maps.

What about making chat channels for each of the dungeons allowing for players to meet and discuss various dungeons?

LOL, I like how this is a request in this game, where in other games released with a feature just like it, it was blatantly ignored while players continued to demand a dungeon finder.

Some folks you just can’t make happy. Although I agree with a server wide chat to help with looking for a group, it is ultimately up to Arenanet and I will still play and enjoy their game wHAtever they decide.

shaidyn.4016:

Voxnor.1657:

So just checking – but you think its acceptable to die four times in the very first, story mode dungeon in the game? Presumably, this should be the easiest dungeon and easiest difficulty in the game, and your perfectly happy that on your third run-through, not your first, you ate dirt 4 times?

Sorry, but that is just not fun for everyone. Glad you enjoyed it though, more power to you.

So, just checking – but you think it is acceptable for people to expect to go into a dungeon and NOT die?

I sometimes think that the only way that Anet is going to be able to make people stop crying is to invent a time machine, go back 20 years, and kitten slap half the playerbase so they don’t grow up to be whiny, entitled children.

<3 Buwahah! HAHAH!
I needed this today. Thank you, really.

Seriously though, no matter how much you tell this type that not everything can be easy all the time and not everything they think is too hard or too long or too much, is that way to someone else. It is like they want a game tailor made for them and them only and only THEIR thoughts and opinions matter, especially if you disagree with them.

Hint: You are not the game designer. I did not buy this game wanting YOU to design it. I payed just as much for this game as you did, therefore my opinion that Arenanet is doing akittenfine job regardless of the endless whining and crying from these forums is just as valid as you think yours is. As a matter of fact it is more valid as I am not demanding they change their design to suit ONLY me, I am playing their design because I bought Their design knowing FULL WELL that it is THEIR design and not mine, or yours, or anyone elses to mess with.

ThrottleFox.2735:

I would assume thats because none are good enough or want to learn and want an easy way out[/quote]

Exactly. I have not done it this way, I do not run with cheaters, so my guild does not consist of such, I never pug. These are the reasons why I never pug. I am not saying all puggers are cheaters, not in any way, however I cannot know the type of people I am grouped with when I pug therefore to avoid that type all together I run with people I know. Maybe those of us who don’t like to cheat are playing these dungeons the way they are meant to be played ..with coordinated groups who communicate..and so don’t see the need to find the easy way out, nor would we necissarily be available for your group Drakk to tell you cheating is wrong, it takes away from the game and we don’t like to do it.

Drakken.3427:

for 1: people hate snitches like you, the dungeon was made incredibly hard no wonder why people are exploiting it.

for 2: developers play with pugs and for sure they’ve seen this already, there’s no need to call yourself out. not really sure why you would want to ruin other people’s fun anyways.

1. People hate cheaters like you.
2. What? I’m not entirely sure why developers would WANT to play with pugs as these dungeons are balanced for cooperative, communitative, stragicly advanced groups. So one would think, you know, …logically…, that would be what they are testing/playing with.

Gryz.8376:

Maximillian Greil.1965:

I take it you’ve done like 2 dungeons?

I used to level my Thief with 2x daggers. I tried the other weapon combinations. I would have preferred sword+dagger, mostly for the looks. But I ended up playing 2x daggers. For my first dungeon, I had the plan to go ranged. I gotten myself 2 pistols, practiced a bit outside. And used pistols in AC SM. I got stomped on.

Then I read I should have used a shortbow. The last 20 levels I’ve been leveling with a shortbow. So much easier. I just kite everything. The shortbow hits 3 targets, so I can kite whole groups forever. The dps is lower, it takes a little longer to kill stuff. But the risk is almost none. I can now kill veterans without a problem. Even higher level than me. I bet I can solo Champions too. I struggled in some Personal Story quests before, but with my shortbow, everything is easy, I never die. I haven’t stepped in a dungeon again (my mates are a bit less enthousiastic after our first AC attempt).

Awesome.
I thought I had rolled a character to play melee.
It turns out I rolled a friggin hunter.
I am not a happy kitty.

So, what you are saying here is ArenaNet needs to nerf shortbow for thief?

People need to also not be confused about the “3 roles that needs to be filled” there are no roles that need to be filled, there are 3 skill types everyone in a group needs to bring to a dungeon with them and that is control support and damage. If there is someone in a group that is in a glass cannon build because they are trying to “fill the dps role” they are a detriment to their group, the same with people who are bringing full support or control builds, everyone in a group needs to be able to do those three things above all else. Every class has the ability to set themselves up with them.

This isn’t Rift, quit trying to fill roles.

cherrie.8907:

I’m not saying rewards are not a problem, I agree 100% that dungeon rewards are beyond silly, but it’s only a part of a generally failed design of dungeon system (lack of real challenge, artificial difficulty and unnecessary discouragement of less experienced players from trying it out or from acquiring the skills required to beat this part of content).

Where in the hell did this term “Artificial difficulty” come from? Are you talking about isntagibs? Because those are avoidable and very obviously so. Large HP pools? Because those are overcome with dps numbers. Are you talking about seemingly “overly difficult” trash mobs, every pull in a real dungeon should be strategic, not an aoe smashface zergfest as most of the new mmo generation is used to. Please Mr. expert, explain to me with your professional knowledge of game design what is considered non -artificial difficulty? Because I fail to see your logic. To me it looks as though you are calling it that simply because you don’t know how to beat it, but, you are failing to see that once you know how to beat it and play as a team, it isn’t difficult at all, and in fact was meant to teach you through trial and error. I know that this concept trial and error may be a new way of learning things for some, as most nowadays are used to the Dora the Explorer form of teaching where your hand is held at all tiems and you are not forced to do any of the footwork yoruself. Unnecessary discouragement? You mean people who are not too bright thinking that if they keep trying the exact same thing over and over and over again without changing anything (considered diagnosably insane btw) are going to become discouraged? That cannot be helped.

Those of you who are demanding they balance explorer mode dungeons for your ’PuG’s’ and are saying it is “the only way people can group” No, those are not built for you and your pugs, as stated by the Devs themselves; here:
For people who love structured and difficult content, we developed the explorable mode for our eight dungeons. A dungeon’s explorable mode has at least three different paths that players can choose to conquer—and each path is a five-character delve into tough content that we designed to push the limits of teamwork and communication.
At this very site no less, but since you are all blind to anything not slapping your face, I will go ahead and link it for you. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/

To answer your question, No, they are not made for pugs, so, to put it as eliquently as you all so love to do, Deal with it.

Dalendria, I am with you and Borked. I hate with a passion grinding daily dungeons for gear to advance. I forget about my gear =X I upgrade when I find them of course, but I am not chasing upgrades, I love the dungeons because, well, I love dungeon running, and this game has made them feel epic again. This game has put the exploring back into them instead of making them about RUNASFASTASYOUCANFOREPICLEWTS, I just hope they don’t cave to what this crowd is demanding they turn the dungeons into.

People make an effort to skip parts of dungeons because they have been spoiled endlessly with games who’s dungeons require no thought, effort, time, or dedication. They have been spoiled with dungeons that are completed in 20 minutes, that have you geared in less than a week. Not because this games dungeons are broken.

They cry endlessly on the forums because, since another game does it that way this game should too, and since it doesn’t and people don’t want to put forth as much effort anymore for a reward they deem unworthy because it doesnt match what those other games do, that means this games dungeon designs are flawed. WoW/Rift/Aion/Tera =/= the set in stones rules of how any games dungeons should be designed simply because they follow the rules of WoW’s cash cow.

I am a player, I paid for this game. I enjoy dungeons and would like to voice my opinion and say; Good for you ArenaNet for not letting your dungeon be turned into spammable pug fests when it was very clearly stated by from the beginging that dungeons are for high end and highly coordinated groups.

fortytwo.3485:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

2. Instead of fighting the enemies in a timed event at he door buster, you just circle strafe them or leash aggro them to “kill the clock” since it was only a 100 second timer on the event.

2. I extended the time from 100 seconds to 200 seconds at the Door Buster event. I intended for you to fight those guys, not circle strafe them and aggro leash chain them. I also added 1 additional mob to the encounter at the very middle (a bow dude) to account for you now having twice the time to defeat the waves that come in.

I Can’t express how angry this statement made me.

You Guys designed a dungeon , tested it , found it suitable and released it. We came in saw, and figured out a strat. A good strat , no exploits, no bugs, we made use of our CCs etc. We played by the rules you set.

But as this didn’t agree with your vision you buffed it.

NOW YOU EXPECT US TO THINK OF A WHOLE NEW STRAT!!! Why ??? whats the point. You probably with disagree the new strat too and buff the dungeon again.

Because the “Kiting Event” was working, right? There was no strat, there was skipping mobs by kiting and letting them break. Riiiight. And you thought that was how it was supposed to be? something tells me this isn’t how their testers completed it. It was never meant to be a “kiting event” lol.

Gray.9650:

Efaicia.3672:

@Hellkaiser, the genre CANNOT evolve into something else with constant complaining from the player base when something isn’t how they ’are used to it being" Nor can it evolve past the holy trinity when people insist on making “tanky” or “healy” builds and trying to force it to be a holy trinity instead of learning what Arenanet has actually done.. No class combo is required I play regularly with a thief, he does well shrug he barely had a bill after last nights escapades.

wat? holy trinity doesn’t mean everybody can go class cannon and succeed. you still need specialized specs with a focus on healing and offer protection. also don’t get hung up too much on that “evolved”. guild wars 1 had a more evolved endgame than this. this is vanilla wow “farm scholo/strat” level.

Efaicia.3672:

@Gray There is conent in abundance for ALL play styles and types. ALL PLAY STYLES AND TYPES. you are demanding they take the content made specificlly for “hard-core” “elite” with well organized groups available to all because “they paid for it too” You know what that is called, right? Don’t even get me started with the “entitlement generation”

this just shows you still don’t get the point. this is about dungeons, how they were in games people are coming from, and what they expect from them. no one said ANYTHING about having only one difficulty for all dungeons. you can absolutely have easy and challenging dungeons at the same time, which can offer rewards in tune with their difficulty/time investment. if you are unable to even acknowledge this, this discussion is moot.

as for content “in abundance”: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-endgame-reimagined/
lets have a look, shall we? what is their endgame?
- dungeons (only for the elite)
- meta events per zone (how often can you do these for some green/blues before it gets dull?
- 100% world completion (that SURE is exciting on the second char)
- story (which becomes almost the same after level 30)
besides that we got
- playing the TP
- farming which gets hampered more and more
- getting a legendary, which is tied to farming.

if you think that is abundance, I honestly don’t want to know what your definition of scarcity is. so far the only thing remotely having any long term appeal to keep people busy pve-wise are dungeons. just like every other mmo before and after gw2. who would’ve known.

do you NOW get why it’s a bad idea to keep dungeon to a tiny fraction of the playerbase only?

Efaicia.3672:

I personaly enjoy the dungeons. I have crap gear, I rarely die..HMMMM. Gear must not be uber important here….

come back when you did more than AC/CM and COF magg pre nerf.

My entire point is just that, people need to get out of their heads how dungeons were in other games and quit expecting them to be that way here. PERIOD. There are different difficulties for every dungeon. See; story mode and then go look at all of the different paths for each dungeon. looks like different difficulties to me. I’m not entirely sure what argument you are calling moot? The explorables HAVE ALWAYS been said to be only for coordinated groups, not pugs, however even the different paths have different difficulties.

Just because YOU don’t like the content they have in for each play style does not mean it is not there IN ABUNDANCE. because it is. I wonder how many of these ‘cassual’ players have 100% map completetion? Or how many of the events they do, or do they just run to the nearest dragon spawn and camp it while farming then come to the forums and complain about how dungeons are too hard? I wonder how many of them have completed their story line? How many of the jump puzzles have they done?

Don’t presume to know what others have or have not seen/done.

@ Hellkaiser Just because I said “healy” or “tanky” does not mean I run with a glass connon build, I do not, nor would I want to play with someone who is running one. That was my point. If 1 person in your group is gearing/speccing JUST for defense thinking ‘Hey! I’m going to be “tanky” and you have another person speccing into all heals and +healing and +power saying, “Ok, I’m healy!” Then you are essentially forcing the holy trinity and are not going to be playing right as you are putting too much focus on 1 or 2 (or even just yourself) instead of how your group is working together.

That is not called common sense, that is called the holy trinity. Common sense in this game would be to go over from the start who has what finishers and who has what fields and how they can be used together to heal, weaken or control the mobs. Who has what reflects, silences, who can elimminate projectiles and when should all of those be used.

What makes “Effing sense” is you basing something off of what you already know ie; you want it to match what previous games have done so that you understand it more.
I have never had to respec mid instance, nor have any of my group mates.
“corpse congas”?
If you are playing this way it is your own fault. It is not however the way it should be played, the dungeon may be working as intended, however the player is being a kitten.

Pony.3256:

Nope, I wont be touching the dungeons in this game.
Out of all games I have ever played, this game has the worst dungeons right now.
Due to this patch, this game has been getting a lot of bad reviews and if you don’t believe me, go and google GW2 dungeon update.
Set the search tool to the past week and go read what people are saying about this game on many other sites right now.
Clearly ANet doesn’t seem to care what the community thinks if they just want us to move on.

WEll, I WILL be touching dungeons, carressing them, loving them…o.O
Out of every game I have played I have had the most fun and have found the most enjoyment out of GW2’s dungeons.

Yes, people will fight tooth and nail any time there seems to be a sense of change, as change is hard for most to handle, so you will see them crying about how it isn’t working right. Right? What is right? Where did they get the definition of “right” when it comes to defining what MMORPG dungeons are supposed to be about? Weren’t they (ArenaNet) trying to go beyond that with this game? Break the mold? be different? But..but, it MUST be wrong if so many agree it is…Or maybe, JUST MAYBE those people need dungeons to be what they are used to them being instead of something new, or something that is trying to be new. Why are they expected to conform to the popular opinion of what they should be? Isn’t it up to them what their dungeons are supposed to offer?

Pony.3256:

Evil.9061:

The people that are “crying” simply are pointing out that regardless the difficulty, which isn’t bad, the dungeons are costing them money to play which for most, as evidenced in thousands of posts today, striped one of the few things they took joy in at level 80.

And no, its not just one dungeon people are complaining about. The monetary gain is absent in all dungeons now.

This.
I’m getting annoyed by people saying “Well this is how dungeons are supposed to be.”
I’m sorry, so is EVERY MMORPG out there broken? Because I sure as hell don’t remember dungeons being this bad at all.
In every game I have played, running a dungeon was worth it.
You’d get gear (decent gear just to sell to other players, doesn’t have to be end gear) and some nice coin.
In this game instead of that, you go into the dungeon and lose money.
Wth is that?
So if this is how dungeons are supposed to be, is Aion, Rift, Tera, etc, broken? Are the dungeons in those games made wrong?
Please explain.

Again someone wanting to not let the genre move on and to evolve past the WoW genre.

To answer your question, yes, those games dungeons, if you applied thier rules to this game, are broken. And would need to be reworked. I am sorry If you did not look into this game more before buying it and expected it to be more of the same. It is not, now quit demanding it become so. You yourself named several good games that have more of the same, you are more than welcome to them, I am not there demanding them to be different. You see, some of us are here to get away from that play style, Not make Arenanet conform to it

Guen.3180:

Efaicia I tend to use staff because of nice aoe chill/cripple combination, I often take the role of crowd controller. In case of elementalist I find other weapon sets ‘uncomfortable’ for me. It’s rather the matter of my personal playstyle. I switch for scepter/focus when I feel it’s better.

Use them all, you chaining yourself to one weapon set is making you weaker.

@Hellkaiser, the genre CANNOT evolve into something else with constant complaining from the player base when something isn’t how they ’are used to it being" Nor can it evolve past the holy trinity when people insist on making “tanky” or “healy” builds and trying to force it to be a holy trinity instead of learning what Arenanet has actually done.. No class combo is required I play regularly with a thief, he does well shrug he barely had a bill after last nights escapades.

Who are you to decide what is bad design? How is it bad? Compaired to what? You HAVE to be compairing it to something to judge it ’bad" what are you using for a base?

@Gray There is conent in abundance for ALL play styles and types. ALL PLAY STYLES AND TYPES. you are demanding they take the content made specificlly for “hard-core” “elite” with well organized groups available to all because “they paid for it too” You know what that is called, right? Don’t even get me started with the “entitlement generation”
I personaly enjoy the dungeons. I have crap gear, I rarely die..HMMMM. Gear must not be uber important here….

Guen.3180:

Efaicia.3672:

Are you serious Guen? I am an elementalist and consistantly the one reviving downed group mates. I rarely get downed, let alone die. I have more HP in my crap gear than my husbands exotic geared gaurdian o.O more hp than the necro and mesmer I play with. maybe you need to rethink the stats on your gear if your hp is so low? Glass cannon builds are horrid….horrid, and is probably the entire reason people around you have jsut stopped inviting ‘elementalists’

As an elementalist you can rely on dodge 2x in a row. After that you have reflects, blinds, shields even an ability to eliminate all projectiles. How are you still dying?

I am not glass cannon, I have the armor/jewlery version with vitality and max traits in toughness (also for condition damage), maybe not complete 100% set cause I’m still gathering materials for craft. I also plan to get full toughness set as second. The point is how the hell mobs hit me harder than mesmer with lower armor value than me (no vulnerability was applied on me). Even if I invest 30 points in vitality traits I will still have lower HP than my mesmer friends. I know I can use shields and dodges that is not the point. I do not mean to blame developers for my lack of attention but there are situations where some things do not trigger (like dodge for example) or character freezes not willing to move (not a lag, cause my ping is fine), or there’s not enough time to react – like to situation I described with ranged mob switching aggro.

Besides in the case of CoF runs I do not understand why people did not want to take elementalists there cause I was able to quite efficiently help in controlling mobs (chill, cripple) and thanks to lava font the last crystal was taken down much faster than without elementalist in team.

Your character freezes and is not willing to move when you are out of vitality. This is when you need to use a shield, a reflect, stone skin, or blinds.
Seems the difference between me and you is a staff. I have all of those available to me while never leaning heavily on staff, I switch weapons with nearly every fight.

Evil.9061:

Doing the same dungeon 100 times for a look and incurring all travel and repair costs is hardly evolving or evolutionary. 1 Ticket to Korea please, seems to be where Darwin has the Beagle docked.

You’re right of course, but when they try to implement a nerf to “players doing dungeons 100’s of times for a look” they get kittened at and cried to because “that’s the only dungeon worth doing”

How can you people seriously say with 1 breath “yeah right you’re so different, You’re not different! You’re like every other game out there” to Arenanet and in the very next breath kitten and whine about how they made your favorite farm spot obsolete?

Oh, you mean more of what’s been done already? A weekly lock out for gear, or tokens to get gear? A “must do” chore list to get gear, or tokens to get gear. Yeah, no thanks. The dailies and monthies for achievements for doing what I want to do and nothing more is as close as I ever want my list of “chores” to come to that play style.

Gray.9650:

Efaicia.3672:

Anet themsleves have explained many, many times how dungeons are for elite, well orginized, and very coordinated groups ONLY.

that might work on paper. because in the end a.net is after the gem purchases – and who do you think buys them? the elite that grinds their armor, or the casuals (no offense) who want an easy way out?

they also sold gw2 as an mmo without grind, which brought a LOT of people in.
what people fail to realize: you will always have grind in an mmo.
what a.net failed to realize: if you sell your game as an mmo there are certain expectations associated with it (or they did, given the blog posts and trailers that have nothing to do with the final game)
a lot of said people that were attracted to gw2 are from a post-wow generation, they EXPECT dungeon runs for their armor. getting slapped in the face “no, this is not for you – you better farm your stuff elsewhere, but beware of the anti-farm mechanic and the diminishing returns!” will hardly put them in the mood to keep playing.
also if you want to gate content to keep people playing in a mmo you have two choices:
- gate it by time (lockouts, grinds, the works)
- gate it by challenge
using both at the same time majorly reduces the number of said people doing content and chasing the carrot. and as mentioned above, they WANT people to play, the longer the better because the more and longer people play the probability of gem purchases rises. just because there’s no sub doesn’t mean they aren’t after your money.

don’t get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with difficult content, quite the contrary, and I always said if you provide a challenge people will rise to it.
but I expect that content and everything revolving around it to be properly done.

So you are trying to say they have no choice if they want to keep players, they MUST be and do things like WoW and the hundreds of failed games who also tried to emulate it? Yes, lets do that!!

How about no, lets let the genre FINALY TRY to evolve. There are plenty of games that offer that playstyle. I am not in them because I am bored TO DEATH with that system and am ready for something different. I will support Anet as they try to take this genre past the “WoW generation” by buying gems, even if I have ziltch to spend them on. (although I am positive I will find something)

Are you serious Guen? I am an elementalist and consistantly the one reviving downed group mates. I rarely get downed, let alone die. I have more HP in my crap gear than my husbands exotic geared gaurdian o.O more hp than the necro and mesmer I play with. maybe you need to rethink the stats on your gear if your hp is so low? Glass cannon builds are horrid….horrid, and is probably the entire reason people around you have jsut stopped inviting ‘elementalists’

As an elementalist you can rely on dodge 2x in a row. After that you have reflects, blinds, shields even an ability to eliminate all projectiles. How are you still dying?