Guild Wars 2

ShakeyStorm.7180:

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/gw2-pvp-build-UI-18.jpg

434×7=3038
922+643+643=2208

830 stat point profit.

Not as explosive as full berzerker set. Needs more testing post patch.

yeah but like other said, healing is wasted on all warr builds beside shouts or regen banner. and vitality is kinda almost always wasted as well, since we have so much allready.

So you end up with only 2170 points, which is even less then other amulets, but it’s even worst!
If u look at raw dmg then its 434×3 = 1302 points distributed equally between power, precision and ferocity. But for max dmg a distribution like 651 power, 451 precision and 200 ferocity (like zerk amulet) would have work much better…

I tried to work with celest stat many times but always found that other combo can give you much more.

Having the same problem, mixing in condi with power is hard. Again mostly of the dumb sets system the only set which does that is carrion which gives us wasted vitally points.
Best I came up with so far is something like this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQNAT8cjMd04ZVIehwJaABzQDrizjkAAJP9B7A-zUCBYhCyUFBi6AO7EKDFMFdIr12FRjVXDT5iIqmMAMrB-w

The build @Siroso pointed is one of the best dueling builds for warrior, it’s less viable in team fight imo but you should win any 1v1.

@Burr if you miss 100b after stun crack so much – why not take off hand axe?
Yes whirling axe spin to win, the ultimate noob skill is very viable on locked enemies.
Mace+axe makes GS+mace build in one set and you have another weapon set for you own choice.
Plus if u take ‘sharpened axes’ this combo could give a near full 3 bars again.

I see either the hammer – for a more dmg oriented of the CC turtle build (mace+shield /Hammer).

The long bow.

Or something like this (amulet and sigil for own choice):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQRApX8ejMdUFajHmhwJagAz4KV5yY8KRpwOuB-TwAA1CnIKSVkrITRyisFNQYZxmgZFA
You have great mobility and quick attacks from sword, a lot of defense and cc from mace and shield, and a great damage combo from skull crack + whirling axe into shield bash + final trust.

I really not sure if it will work, but it sure will be fun.

Your made me write this
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/sPVP-Why-go-hybrid/first#post3742265
so thank you

I seen the limitation of zerk warrior in tpvp a long time ago. many builds able to negate power attacks just too well, examples: mediation guard, pu mesmer, decap engi.
In wvw, it’s different because of power and crit dmg scaling and being able to stack it much higher, plus the -condi duration makes it much more viable.

The limitation of full condi warrior is known from even longer, nothing really changed about this build only hambow became less strong so ppl moved to that.
With current meta almost all viable builds pile on many condi removals, so again there will be some builds you just cannot kill: hambow warrior, necros, decap engi again…

With hybrid you can stack cond to force a heal and cleanse and then burst, where in full cond you would just have to wait for condi CD again.
You can apply constut pressure with direct dmg but your conditions still burn while the enemy kites making him lose 1 way or the other.
If your enemy direct damage is higher then you are the kiter, if he kites and applying conds the you chase him with burst dmg.

The way I see it, hybrid has the same risk reward as full zerk and that’s y i find it fun. Full condi just stack cond damage and rest is defense, PVT or semi zerk still stacks a lot of armor and only the rest in power and crits. Hybrid need 4 damage attributes (3 cirt power + condi), so not much room to invest in defense but the reward is sweet

I like knowing that there is no counter build for me, some builds will be easy fight, many others will be harder compared to full cond or full zerk, but it’s up too my skill if I win it and not just up to my build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQNAT8cjMdUGaVIGewJaAB9ALqit4yIJAQ9B7A-TsAgyCnIqRVjrGTNyas1M8YJyuCA

This is what i run. It has too much vitally coz of stupid amulet system, in WvW you can build it much better, but this build is strong.
The condi dmg is strong as any rabid warrior (and way better then all those cowardly settlers shouts builds), but you still land: ~4K final trust and arcing arrow with 1K auto attacks.

GL HF

laquito.5269:

Eiland.1405:

I would also add that it seems the thief class reflects the state of the game perfectly as the more cheesy it gets the more the game… but I don’t want to ruin a constructive thread.

If anything, it’s warriors, decap engies and condispam necros that reflect the state of the game. You’re failing to see the root problem, thief is just a symptom of it.

I totally agree. I also meant that the thief state is just a symptom, I wish it was the only problem, but unlike those other classes thief has never not been viable in pvp only the viable builds changed.
And so it’s funny/sad to follow the thief meta build changes to see at what state the game is at.

The problem is basically: Big reward no Risk

Reward: interrupt, 0.5 stun, big damage, evade

The risks should have been:
1.Initiative cost: 5. ATM its only 5sec to regen it, can actually be spam 3-4 in a row. so very small.
2. Roots: enemy can’t react after coz of stun and thieves evades (all but aoe or something). enemy can’t even pre cast a spell to hit right when the thief teleports to him because stun of course is an interrupt. risk again is very small.
3. Telegraphed = easy to avoid: so this risk is wasting initiative, which is smaller risk the putting skill on long CD, but this is negated even more with teleports. With port every 11sec on avg, you pre-cast the skill so the Telegraphed is negated completely.
4. Stability – thief steal 2 boons every 21sec, if he teleported with steal then having Stability on will only bump him, as he is now immune to cc also.

There are ez solutins to each of those problems, I am sure that the balance team will choose the best ones (and that it will happen very soon):
1. increase skill ini cost
2. return ini regen to normal
3. change stun to immoblize
4. return steal CD to normal
5. reduce damage
6. remove evade (bug anyhow- its not mentioned in skill description)

I would also add that it seems the thief class reflects the state of the game perfectly as the more cheesy it gets the more the game… but I don’t want to ruin a constructive thread.

Well anyhow both these builds are not optimal imo for this wpn set but to compare them we will need actual gameplay.

Ok, let’s compare your 0/20/20/0/30 to 0/25/25/0/20 with exact same traits beside Heightened focus of course:

Stats : 160 power, 3% crit chance, 50 toughness, 50 cond damage.
Features: +10% dmg on bleeding foes (which is 99% of time) = 200 power

VS

Stats: 10% crit dmg
Features: -0.5 sec on burst skill, 0-15% cirt chance , 10sec might on swap

Power:
We can compare 10% crit dmg on 60% -80% crit chane to about 7% poer increase with 1840 power its 129 power. (and this is very generous as many attacks like ‘sigil of fire’ dont crit).
So (200+160) – 129 = 231 less power to your version.
Crit chance:
You will very rarely, be on 3 full bars, this build use 2 burst skills for their damage utility and condi clear, if you don;t you just hurting your play style. And since no other adrenaline trait beside cleansing ire, it does build back that fast.
So most of the time you are playing with 0 -2 bars -> only 1 full bar on avarage -> 5% crit chance (again i’m generous as this will be less)
So 5% crit chance – 3% = +2 % for your build.

Might on swap:
10sec on 5sec swap is 2 stacks, but rarly we switch exactly at 5sec and it can be stolen/remove so ill count it as 1 stack on avg-> 35power , 35 cond

So are you saying that 2% chance is better then 196 power, 15cond , 50 toughness? on a build with very high crit chance as it is?
GG

^ that you can build much better

I dont get you guys, condi warriors began to spread only few month ago, some time after the hammer nerf. Complains about HS were long b4 that and they all talked about hammerbow.
I think the correct statement is HS is only not good on burst zerk warrior – mainly axe+gs builds.
Every other build, either cond, or stun: hambow and gs/mace_shield., would still use it.

Oozo.7856:

I haven’t seen anyone complain about asura animations since beta. Always good to have an excuse when you lose a fight, I guess.

I have. For a long time after the beta.
But the reason those qq stop is only because Anet did not response to it once!
There were so many request for ‘no asura’ servers or an option to see all enemies as human modules, but never a replay from anet to this issue – so i guess most of these ppl jut quit the game eventually. Esport ftw!

KeyboardCowboy.8465:

Greetings!

Perhaps I can assist you on your dilemma on a Sword/Shield Build.

I too refuse to be another Hambow clone like everyone else and have always been a sword and board kinda warrior even in my WoW days. So I have been brewing a build to aid me in SPvP/WvW. My initial attempt was more of a burst Sword/Shield which worked really well for single targets, but when focused by multiple targets I would melt. So after doing some more testing and reading up on different builds this what I came up with.
My Build :Sword and Board and I got the defensive changes from this thread Knightmare Build

The build works great and gives you the defensive capabilities to withstand and enough CC to pretty much shutdown most players. I personally use Bullrush instead of Bolas from the original build, because nothing is sweeter then bull rushing a fleeing target that is trying to heal knock them down then follow through with a 4-6K Final Thrust to finish them.

How does same build with those traits:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQNAseTjMdUFaZHOewJagAz4KV58IJTZ86D2B-T0Ag0CvIKSVkrITRyisFNuYRwhgJBPCA

is not better in anyway?

For strait up comparison you can change to 0/25/25/0/20 to take ‘warrior sprint’ instead of ‘Furious speed’, but IMO taking ‘Furios’, ‘Last chance’ or ‘Destruction of the empowered’ would be better choices anyhow.
You allready got 30/48 swiftness uptime and sword 2 makes it ez to stick on ppl.

Evilek.5690:

style.6173:

The issue is that s/p is the OP spec for thief and needs to be nerfed along with the other OP specs including hambow, decap engi, spirit ranger, mm necro, bunker guardian, and pu mesmer.

Timeline

People cry D/D is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/P is OP – nerf 15% DMG now make same DPS as AA chain.(8. 10. 2012)
People cry D/P is OP – zero nerf
People cry S/D is OP – little nerf

Now Arenanet nerf PW stun (paralyze sigil) and People start cry S/P is OP ? Illogical.

With biased timeline illogical is easily achieved.

You only “forgot” about:
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip does less damge then aout attack – attack bump
People cry S/P not viable – initiative cost reduced
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip too hard to connect – skill time reduced
People cry S/P not viable Pistol whip still does less dmg then auto attack – dmg bump
People cry w/o endless stun break on sword #2 thief is dead class – ini +33% bump

Your logic may rest now

Leeto you are right. 1 year back.
They thought exactly like you and gave us the the option to “make” maps, which gave them the time to keep working in thier 1 and only holy mode.
Does it more balnaced? no
Does it more fun? no
New maps are better then old ones (skyhammer, spirit watch)? yes! no
All we got is:
1. guild servers for them to practice w/o beeing trolled
2. In all of EU ther only two 1v1 servers (SWIM, ANGZ) founded by very few dedicated guys who keep paying those gems every month.
kitten Anet should bee paying them, coz that’s what was keeping many player from quieting for all these months.

No1 is saying we must have a deathmatch map in paid tournament or something, just that we need new maps/ new options, and personally I don’t think it should be founded only by players. And yeah, if a lot of ppl will play those mode/servers then they SHOULD support it.
A game is for the gamers.
I will bet every 1 here would be so much happy if we had like 5 half broken mode of which many will think some of them are broken for some builds, but will have to option of choosing to play!
If a mode is unbalanced/ not fun – don’t play it! it is so much easier to do when you can choose another one.

I don’t see in any way where post like – “deathmatch is so kitten I only play conquest” is worst then “conquest has 1 meta, unbalanced, boring – no PVP in this game, i quit”

If think what everyone is saying – kitten balance, just let us play
qq and raging and whining will always be anyhow

I’ll tl;dr for ya : Hi Anet don’t do anything!
How did all of us didnt think about it? guys stop quting everything is good it’s all of us who are wrong. GG

Let me give 1 point to think about:
With even 1 more game mode – there could be 2 metas.

Kitten builds like decap engi could be OP in 1 mode but garbage in the other.
So without actually doing any balance path you immediately achieve more balance .
Classes or builds could be useless in mode but at least they’ll have another mode to play- unlike today when if you build is not for conquest its out till next patch(“commin soon..”).
1 mode = 1 meta → 5 man team → less then 5 available builds
As it is any “balance” patch is just keeping us running in cricles looking for the next FTM

You remember the reason for nerfing the damage on warrior hammer?
“we want to separate damage from CC”
Yes PW is a single target mele stun, unlike the hammer. but with so many insta teleports landing it is so much easier then landing earthshaker (in 1v1).
So yeah, no reason for it to do as much damage as the auto attack because it already stun the opponents!
See how often you land a full or almost full PW against the times you land of full AA chain – much more. Who ever eats a whole auto attack chain of any weapon without being cc?

Oh and that evade – is a bug. Beside the fact that putting evade on this skill negates all elements of risk/reward from it, it also have no mention in skill description so it is a bug, and will surly get fix very fast (by 20126).

I think no matter how u spin it, with rare balance patches and only 1 game mode there can be only 1 meta it will change very slowly.

For more frequent fixes and patches there are positive and negative claims, but what is sure that if there was more then 1 game mode we would have seen a “meta” for each of them.

If you look at duel server some eles are doing pretty well, good mesmer can kite hambow to death when they don’t have to stand on point in their fire field, and no decap engi is going to win a deathmatch (unless it’s in skyhammer :/).
So we probably be seeing post like: “ele is garbade in point cap” “else is OP in quick DM” . Yeah it would suck if your class is not viable for a certian game mode, which might happen for every changed meta (warrior 1 year ago), but it would be so much better than now because that class will probably be useful or even OP in another mode.

Sw/D Ranger + Thief – 1 auto ,3 Evade skills, 1 stealth . gg.

Mixing weapon skill is abous OP, if anything you could just make it so that you only get the utility skills of the secondary to choose from too.
And let me assure you , you gonna see a lot more iHouses (shadows refuges)…

So yeah it WOULD have been fun, but not gonna happen. Start coutdown to GW3

You do know this game is not a free too play?

BUMP
15 charsssssss

I think making it an aoe might be too strong be yeah I think we got something here.

I rarely died to being MOA but defiantly the times I did were very annoying.
So I don’t agree with it being auto death, but just that’s it’s a bad and broken skill and should be totally replaced with something else.
There is a long know issue how this skill completely counters MM necro – as the transform kills all the pets, and of course anet has no solution to this.

So another +1 to replacing this skill, not because it’s insta death but because its badly design skill for any PVP game.

I think this skill would be much more fair (can maybe lower the cooldown) if it would turn you in a invulnerable block of ice (like svanir runes) – so the skill fills the roll of “removing 1 enemy from the fight for a short time” but without the other cons.
This could actually be very interesting skill if you could also cast it on a friendly who is being targeted…

Oh and that lol WASD post give me an idea to how to balance it:

make the thief move slower while in channel

This will still keep all the skill benefits as a defensive skill (reflect, duration).
But for attacking it could only be use if thief also waste teleport or punish the warrior for staying in place – point pressure in tPVP a thing a thief lacks.

Let’s start from the top, again.
Yes WA hasn’t changed since beta and let’s say it was never a problem so why now?
The meta changed.
Just like the warrior hammer and mace did not changed form beta but as warrior’s got other buff the issue from this weapon was raised. And I am sure all thieves in this thread will strongly agree that they deserved the nerfs they got.
Now thief also changed, a lot.
D/D – once thief signature is now consider not viable
and S/P which was once – “so broken , will never be good, does less damage the auto attack” go to buffed to sky, (credit all the thieves whining in these forums).

So all those arguments of this skill is so bad, so ez to kite, avoid and such where also applied while defending the mace or hammer burst skill.
Because when you look solely at a skill it’s easy to count the number of ways to counter it: “just dodge hammer – most telegraph attack ever” ,“just move away form mace – learn to kite” – the problem, as you all know, is with the build that uses the skill.

So if you want to make a REAL argument then talk about real in game scenario.

Real Scenario
Now let’s how easy it is to kill warrior as S/P thief (it is so much easier then any other class atm, personally I realy can’t see the fun in playing it – said the warrior)
1. steal to warrior (every 20sec) (if he is super pro he can pre cast “pistol whip” to just land too – much skill)
2. black powder (thief has the shortest “cooldown” on skill nowadys w/o any ini skill invest)
3. spin to win

So now the warrior is blinded (at least once) and thief is on top of him.

Ways to counter :
KITE
If the warrior had swiftness – the thief now stole so thief got swif warrior don’t – u cant WASD
If the warrior did not have swiftness coz he was smart enough NOT to use his elite (thief tricky line actually punishes warrior for using their elite – another OP topic) – they both on same speed and since the thief teleported right on top of him he can’t WASD also (Galsia.4102 u so pro).
only 3 mobilty skill – GS 5, 3 and sword 2 – viable options, but thief can also teleport there w/o breaking channel.

AVOID
So a few common fact about warrior:
- most build have very little dodges compared to all other class: very little vigor
- only 1 evade skill across all weapon
- no teleports
And that’s ok coz they should be tanky and absorve damage vs avoiding it (like thief).
So beside GS whirlwind, a warrior can only dodge – avoiding 0.5sec out of 3.5sec (1/7 of the damage) of the skill channel and the thief can just dodge after him as this does not break the channel.

RANGE
no

RANGE AOE
only 1 skill – ‘Arcing arrow’ , but need to get rid of blind first so getting hit by reflect or by melee before switching to bow.

MELEE
getting hit by WA but also hitting back – WA hits very hard so for this trade off to pay mayb only axe is viable option but thief can dodge while in channel so for at least 1sec or 2sec the thief dps will be much higher in comparison.

CC
cc weapon attack slow – so 1 attack to get rid of blind and only then, but again thief can dodge in channel avoiding those slow telegraphed attacks and just keep damaging.

So of course there are ways for the warrior to avoid/ counter this skill but as you see there in almost all cases this will give the thief at least a 3K of free damage.

If the things I wrote above were not known to you as a thief, then sry to tell you that you are not a very good one and comments form bad players won’t get us anywhere.
Watch real thief player play S/P vs a warrior and just see how much extra damage they get from this skill alone.

Another “lags since update” post
By now I’m used to this issue but the patch was a few good says ago and it still lags.

Anet please this is unacceptable. we all payed for this game but can’t always play it.
Game is out for a long time and lag issues always returns.
If your server can’t handle the load – then buy more.
This should not be our problem.

Here is another yes.
Go some friends doing just that ^ but with axe instead of sword:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAR3ejkOpwxOyQMxBEUhrw84IAiiQ9wO2w2A-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsYVwmDA
If you want a fun weapon axe is always a good options, problem is there is not much place to land 100b, unlike yours.
I might try yours today, to see how it feels. Looks fun that’s for sure.

Well I don’t think you meant this build is for tournament play but if you did then I’m kinda agree with Introp on this.
I think there are other viable builds but if we focus on yours then:
Your roll is that of zerk roamer, so even if its good and fun (i love these weapon set) if you can’t do it better then a thief then yeah – not viable for tpvp.

The tactics you wrote are true and current but if we are talking about equal levels players then – you are not dropping bunker guard, you are not dropping soldier hammbow (they have same tactics as yours you know. you can drop zerker if they dont get u) and if you haven’t met decap engi I guess u really don’t play much lately, but hate to tell you that you won’t drop them either. (PU mez is garbage anyhow so forget that)
The thing is, hammer warrior need no excuses coz even he if won’t win 1v1 (which they still do) they bring a lot to any team by CC – u can’t stom/rez interrupt with immobilize.

Sorry again for landing all this, I do think this build is viable in roaming/ duels and even more important – its very fun.

Don’t you guys many times find that raw damage is just not enough?
Can you kill a point guard with this build? soldier hammbow? rabid engi? PU mez?
I mean fast and reliable enough during tournament , not in the 1v1 hero kinda way.
At least in current meta I find that some builds can negate direct damage too well and w/o help or perfect chain stun or something you can rarely drop them.
They might not kill you either, but if i want him off a point I want him out.
I can easily notice this in 1v1 with hammbow, if the fight is not too short you will see that most damage he actually did was not the hammer, it was burning.
That’s y i moved to hybrid – that reliable condi pressure can do wonders.

will be glad to hear your experience.

Valentin.2073:

Eiland.1405:

infantrydiv.1620:

Valentin.2073:

infantrydiv.1620:

Valentin.2073:

Simon.3794:

Valentin.2073:

i eat engineers for lunch on my zerker ranger.

http://youtu.be/-HiYUlhsO_M

so skilled, much wow

engineers are crap. ive never been beaten by an engi both on my spirit and zerker ranger in tpvp. i dont even need to try. the only professions that can beat me 1v1 are condi warriors and minion necros when i’m playing as a spirit ranger.

I know plenty of engineers that will wreck you lol nice clicking and keyboard turning in your vid

oh yeah! quite funny because i couldnt even count how many engineers ive pawned since ive played gw2. i havent even beaten by a single engi in a dueling arena on my zerker ranger.

btw, that was the first video i made and my first attempt. i wasnt even playing my best on that video and i was playing in a dark room.

My favorite part is when you LB 5 nothing and also when you let your pet die and also the dodges where nothing gets evaded, and the end when the engineer admits he’s ‘very bad’.

naa my fav part is still “i was playing in a dark room”

thank you for this thread

you’re a geek. stop making fun of people who arent as good as you in playing online games. havent you thought that maybe we have other stuff to think of too.

OK OK i’m sorry dude seeing as you taking this hard, I don’t want to abusive.
At any point did I say anything about my skill or yours, you just made me laugh that’s all, take it easy mate

infantrydiv.1620:

Valentin.2073:

infantrydiv.1620:

Valentin.2073:

Simon.3794:

Valentin.2073:

i eat engineers for lunch on my zerker ranger.

http://youtu.be/-HiYUlhsO_M

so skilled, much wow

engineers are crap. ive never been beaten by an engi both on my spirit and zerker ranger in tpvp. i dont even need to try. the only professions that can beat me 1v1 are condi warriors and minion necros when i’m playing as a spirit ranger.

I know plenty of engineers that will wreck you lol nice clicking and keyboard turning in your vid

oh yeah! quite funny because i couldnt even count how many engineers ive pawned since ive played gw2. i havent even beaten by a single engi in a dueling arena on my zerker ranger.

btw, that was the first video i made and my first attempt. i wasnt even playing my best on that video and i was playing in a dark room.

My favorite part is when you LB 5 nothing and also when you let your pet die and also the dodges where nothing gets evaded, and the end when the engineer admits he’s ‘very bad’.

naa my fav part is still “i was playing in a dark room”

thank you for this thread

“…and i was playing in a dark room.”
tell us more please

IMO the build you posted is perfect for axe+shiled / Hammer.
For GS/Hammer I find 20/0/30/0/20 to be much better.
You don’t need burst mastery and leg specialist is too rare but u do get more power, 10% gs dmg which is A LOT, more dodges, dodge dmg, which is great, and more vitality/DFO ,the jump trait, which is always good for wvw but it also lunches, a very strong and supa fun skill.

I’ll copy a replay I made in another thread to a guy who thought that because I’m made this thread I am getting perma-stomped by thieves. Let me just say – it’s very far from the truth “However…
there are some good thieves who run S/P , a build which is already super ez vs warriors who did beat me, and yet the most damage they were applying is with ‘whirling axe’. So yeah I do still think this steal skill is too strong – in the right hands.
Some warrior builds counter it better, other will just fall flat dead (no fast hand stuck on LG for 10sec), and yet some thieves will call it garbage even if it gave them invulnerability while spinning and had another pair of hands to spam the 3 button with.”

There are some counters to this skill, very few imo, and there are situations where it won’t help the thief at all, but there are plenty of other times this skill can just be way too strong, too much for just a stolen skill.

All I am saying is if this skill had like 2.5sec duration instead of 3.5 it would probably make it much more balanced.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Posted this build a while back, hybrid damage+Condi which can land eviscerates for 10-14k with nearly 3k armor. Your utilities are pretty flexible, and so are your runes, but be sure to run a few Condi removals and/or run with one or two guardians. You’ll also be very slow.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/My-Axe-Axe-Longbow-all-around-build/first

What is the “438 condition damage mark”?

Cufufalating.8479:

Arent you the guy who posted the other day about getting rofl-stomped by thieves all the time?

Edit: Oh you are. Good one.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Thief-stolen-Whirling-Axe-is-OP/first#post3668875

L O L L L
stomped by thieves , you’re a funny guy.
I can give you names of r50-60 thieves i made crying (part of the reason for creating this thread).
However there are some good ones who run S/P , a build which is already super ez vs warriors who did beat me, and yet the most damage they were applying is with ‘whirling axe’. So yeah I do still think this steal skill is too strong – in the right hands.
Some warrior builds counter it better, other will just fall flat dead (no fast hand stuck on LG for 10sec), and yet some thieves will call it garbage even if it gave them invulnerability while spinning and had another pair of hands to spam the 3 button with.
So yes, I am a good one, I know it.

Can’t deal with all them corpses QQ

All is vain?
/15

wow yeah thnx a lot, nice job.
I think the devs + wiki ppl should take notice of this

I know there is some different formula between PVE and PVP/WvW for retaliation damage but cannot find it anywhere. Only thing I have is from the wiki: (for PVE I think)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retaliation

Does anyone have this?

matthen.5024:

Nice vid. Been messing around with a similar build. I kinda fell into it because I wanted to try LB/SS, but didn’t have any dire gear.

One thing: today’s patch reduced retaliation damage in WvW to match s/tPvP, so even if you like Spiked Armor before, you’ve got to like it a little less…

I seen this message too but cannot find a place where it says whats the different formula of retaliation in PVP vs PVE, can you link to some place it’s written in?

“…thieves don´t have a thing like healing signet you don´t lose anything to waiting”
thieves have one the shortest heals in the game – withdraw , a 15sec CD so a 3.5 second is like 1/4 of the heal CD so yeah I do lose something as he gets much closer to hes next heal.
But I realy don’t mind about this skill being use defensively, thats is actually a good play imo.

To @evilapprentice I really don’t care how many of the thieves skill are being called OP, I play a warrior and we get that every day.
But be honest you have to admit that the stolen skill from warrior is much much stronger then all the other stolen skills:
How many times have u won a 1v1 becasue of throw gunk? or is it ‘consume plasma’ that saved you and killed that mesmer? How many times have have you even tried to land ‘head crack’ on a guardian vs the times you just throw it away to ready the next steal?
All I am saying guys is look at fights, and tell me other stolen skill can effect the battle so much as the whirling axe on the warrior does.

I’m sorry to tell you guys if you think that this skill does not allow you to faceroll warrior – you are doing it wrong.
And If you still thing that this skill is useless anyhow then you shouldn’t mind it being nerf, at least the damage part.

If think this skill is very unbalanced as a stolen skill (compared to other stolen skills) as it last too tong/ does too much damage/ have almost no counters for the short CD it can be obtained (20sec traited).

Of course this skill does a lot of damage, that is it purpose, the problem is:
- its very long: lasts for 3.5 sec. in this time it can deal a ton of damage not just a lot.
- it have almost no counters (from warriors)

The ways to counter a very very high damage melee skill are:
- evade: works great vs few big attacks, but vs a steady channel you just avoid a 0.5 sec out of the 3.5 sec negating only very little damage, so no.
- range dps: like this skill is not strong enough it also reflects projectiles, which was always kinda absurd as the warrior same skill (on axe #5) does not, so again no.
- soft cc: blind – warrior only blind is on bow #4 which is projectile, so no.
immobilize – both ranged immobilize(bow 5, bolas) are again projectiles, the third one is sword burst skill which roots you in place (it can be canceled but it roots for at leas a second) so it does not help to immobilize the whirling thief if you are standing next to him.
- hard cc – hammer or mace, are the only viable options, but a smart thief will also use the blind field before using this skill making the warrior waste at lest 1 attack to get rid of blind, and those weapon attacks very slowly, so he will be damaged a lot anyhow.

Obviously this skill is much stronger then all the other stolen skills, against warriors at least, and if my text did not convinced you just see how much the stolen skill is being using in thieves vs X fights.
So I’m asking to balance it to make it more in line with other stolen skills

Some ways to nerf it should be like: reduce time / remove reflect / reduced damage for each hit.

IMO most thieves builds already hard counters most warrior builds anyhow (blinds, evades, stun breaks, steal the whole elite…) so they should not suffer to much from changing this skill, just please let’s make it a bit less of a face roll.

Just hit it’s me this build is basically the sword variation of the axe+sword/LG which is kinda popular at pvp atm.
It zerker amy + lyssa but trait are 15/0/25/0/30.
So it burst mastery, as you burst more often with the axe, vs retaliation and off hand dmg…

Juile then take ‘furious speed’ – it’s a perma swifness in fights which is better then ’warrior’s sprint’ 25% boost and then you can keep ‘vigorous focus’ and take ‘destruction of the empower’ which is very good dmg boost.

“or I have the option to go 5 more in strength for stick and move and +50 more power”
might worth considering moving 5 point from Discipline to Strength.
If it was only 50 power + stick n move VS 5% cirt dmg and DotE – I would choose the later also.
but you will also move from +30% cond duration to 35% which makes your 3sec brun from Combusite shot int 4 sec, a free 1sec burn. Still not a sure winner but woth testing.

I play hybrid warrior, it does work and it’s super fun.
I usually kitten other warrior with it too burst or cond. (welcome to PM for mist duel EU servers)
But your build.. that’s not hybrid, that just meh, sry. you can hybrid build much much better then this.

lol ^

One place it is very viable and can actually be OP is in 1v1 servers, I managed to ‘win’ with this skill many times.
But I think all downstate are kinda meh anyhow, at least this 1 has some rare occasions where it can help. Only down skill thats real OP is ranger #3 that pet can rez through a kitten fire storm. So if anything to change in downskills I would just nerf this 1 and leave the other ones as is.

“Could a M/Sw + LB with Bull’s Charge work?”
Used with reflect trait It’s one the most OP build I’ve seen in PVP, so yeah it works.
But I don’t like it much for 2 reasons:
1. no mobility , and that’s always bad in wvw.
2. You are very depending on people attacking you, most dmg is from confusion and reflect
So u might not die but if some1 don’t wanna fight you he could very easily just disengage

Yeah nice dissing guys, much afford, i liked it.

3 question to @ProxyDamage:

1. If debating between melandru and undead y not take antitoxin runes? it the new melandru rune for cond builds.

2. if u take melandru + food + dodged march for 98% reduction on immoblize do u still find ‘mobile strikes’ that mandatory? I don’t wvw much thats I am asking.

3. if ‘mobile strikes’ is’nt mandatory won’t you find going 30 in discipline a bit wasted? as the CD on burst is very fine on 8.5 sec as well and all that crit dmg just goes to waste on full cond build. not there is much to do about it.. coz we can’t get all these trait together with furios (30 arms)