Hmmm…yeah….I could definitely go for this. Nice idea.
I guess if these things irritate you…well…they irritate you and it doesn’t seem that it’s for anyone else to say that they shouldn’t. You feel how you feel. That said, these things really haven’t bothered me at all. Not sure what else to say.
Yes, I agree that this would be a wonderful addition to the game. Although I am not at all hesitant to spend money on gems for items, I do feel that this feature should not be gem-based – I would prefer that it be a standard in-game item. Maybe some item purchased from the trainer…maybe some reagents or something required to switch…but just not from the gem store.
The problem is people are being toxic in a starter area for the most common race.
New players get impression this is what GW2 is about.
I am often in QD doing various things, leveling new toon through, gathering, doing some stuff for daily…whatever. I see the train from time to time and see the conversation in map chat. They seem friendly enough. The one on our server (IOJ) seems a pretty affable group, at least that is the view from outside the train. I have, from time to time, bumped into the train when I happened to be near when a champ was up or when Behemoth was spawning and I honestly didn’t see any problems. Folks throwing banners down and others thanking them…seems a very polite society for an MMO. At least this has been my experience.
So…Sling….“slightly older” is right…you are the same age as my oldest son. Seriously though…comments above all on the mark. I found a great guild with a good mix of ages…fantastic GM and officers…and am having a great time. There are lots of guilds out there. Best of luck to you.
you are able to run through majority of the game alone, thats the problem.
I believe that this is more a symptom than a problem. There is plenty of group content in the open world that goes completely unnoticed, skipped over, bypassed, ignored, etc. This is not unique to GW2. WoW, in fact, nerfed most of their open world group content (other then world bosses) years ago because, frankly, players just skipped over it. Even some of the group content that was part of gating got a strong pushback. I recall when everyone going into Karazhan had to have the key…which had some individual content in the chain but also three or four dungeons. Now gating such as the key to Kara is unthinkable.
I would not venture a guess as to why players avoid group content when it is available; perhaps different players have different reasons. I am also not sure how you address that since I have not really seen any truly successful models. World bosses that give good loot tend to get participation. Other group events or areas that seem to give great loot end up as massive farming. Whether that is good or bad I will not weigh in. My point is that having group-appropriate content out in the world doesn’t seem to, in and of itself, encourage participation or socialization. We seem to just find ways to avoid it.
GW2 is still the best MMO in terms of art direction and action combat, beats all the others.
But – pay attention – to face WildStar and Everquest Next, GW2 needs desperately of:
- Factions
- Open PvP everywhere and duels (with option flag: pvp on ou off.
- Police, trial and prisons
- Better and valuable loot everywhere
- More Pve maps (open PvP)
- Housing in WxWxW
- More traditional quest and better rewarding
- Portuguese translationBy the way, from another forum:
“Hello!
Games are a psychological experience. And the way they feel is of paramount importance.
That being said, let me use examples from original ____ to show what constitutes ____ feel:
Real danger was often imminent, and you really didn’t want to die. This kept players in a state of high awareness and thus complete immersion.
Players relied on each other for both complex and mundane tasks. (res, TP, buffs, CR, etc)
Trade skills required devotion to max out, causing those players to become highly valued.
Players could engage in complex tasks and build a reputation in the community.
This led to appreciation, attention, and new relationships.
Quests could be long, hard, and elusive… but very rewarding. (epic weapons)
Players valued what they earned, since it usually required considerable effort.
Traveling was not always trivial, and was often scary.
Players learned to share, since for a long time, instances did not exist. Instancing disconnects players from the living world, thus breaking the feeling of truly being part of it.
The game was a rich journey to be savored, instead of just an aggressive min-maxing hunt.
These were the things that made ____ so memorable. There was persistence of alertness, determination, length, care, accomplishment, proper rewards, and daily collaboration among strangers. This is what I believe ____ needs.
Modern games are too often designed to cater to the lowest common denominator. Spoon-fed quests. Mindless killing. Minimal thinking. Content fed through a fire hose. Instant gratification. Short-lived gear. Flashy character appearance. Horrific communities. User interfaces that automate everything.
I hope the development team reads these forums.
Thanks"
Very thoughtful post. Thank you. In reading over this more than once, I agree with some, disagree with some…but mostly it reinforces my central belief about games and that is that people come to games with different perceptions, expectations, and preferences. Characteristics that some view as ideal others may view as horrible ideas. Bottom line, though, is that these things are subjective. Examples…
Factions, open world PVP, competition, etc…not for me. I own a business and my work days are consumed with competition just to earn a living. My game time is my relaxation time and the last thing I want is aggressive competition.
Real danger….indeed, sometimes a lot of fun. Sometimes I just want to mindlessly wander around the world doing something where I do not have to be constantly on guard. Several days ago I spent about an hour and a half mindlessly mining platinum in Sparkfly Fen. Since my toon was a well geared 80 guardian…I just wandered about getting the ore I wanted without much regard for anything. Listening to some music, chatting with my wife as she walked in and out. Sometimes this is nice…and then again, sometimes the danger is good.
Player collaboration – sorry…GW2 seems much better for this than any game I have seen. I spent 7 years playing another MMO and while it is true that people occasionally helped each other, the overall approach was to screw the other guy before he screwed you. If you were fighting a mob beside an ore node, it was not unusual for another player to swoop in and grab the ore while you were fighting…laughing all the time. Yes, the nature of that game, and many others…is conflict over resources. This does not, in my experience, tend to bring out the best in people. Again, just my observation.
Travel. Again, mixed agreement. I like the excitement of immersive exploration on a toon…the first time through. After I have cleared an area…not so much. For example, several weekends ago, I needed some eggplant for my cooking. It is readily available from a Karma vendor down in southern Mount Maelstrom. A quick WP down and back and I can head back to the kitchen to cook. I don’t want to spend 30 minutes fighting my way all the way there to buy a couple of bags of eggplant.
Long difficult quests…tend to agree on this one. I do like the long and involved quest chains that offer some really nice reward at the end. Caveat…I would not want all quests or events to be this way…perhaps a nice combination.
So, again, nice, thoughtful post and I appreciate your views. Some I agree with; some not so much but I do appreciate that you took to time to offer these thoughts.
I play off and on for a few hours during the week…a bit more on weekend. I vary my activities a lot. My own personal thing is that I try not overload on anything. I level alts for a bit, next time maybe some dungeons. Three days a week I am on guild missions. Weekends I may do some crafting. Occasionally I will devote time to a tough JP. I just try to spread things out and enjoy…no matter what I am doing. Another secret for me…if I am not enjoying something in game…I quit doing it. Some LS I do…some not – just depends on how interested I am. My alts are somewhere in the middle of their personal stories…rarely do any of them but occasionally I will drop in to see how things are.
I just do what strikes me on any given day…and I am never in a hurry to finish.
So let me get this straight, NCsoft is like a film producer and Anet is like the director (as Carbine). Carbine is funded by NCsoft with money earned thanks to Anet, but Anet has nothing to do with this new game wildstar. Is that correct?
if it is, is comforting i was scared that after all the effort that i put in this game they just abandon the game.
NCSoft acquired Arenanet in 2002 and, as far as I can tell from the research, they do not seem to be in the habit of just abandoning efforts such as GW2. I have watched their financials off and on and Anet seems to be pretty well positioned in the company. Having another title like Wildstar under development, especially by a different studio, really doesn’t bode ill for GW2, I don’t think. I know some other regular forum posters are much more knowledgeable about NCSoft and their relationship with Anet than I am…perhaps some others might chime in.
I also am a casual…and I have made the conscious decision to forego the ascended armor for now. My crafters are all between 400 and 500 but I am not willing to grind to get them up there. I am outfitted in my exotics with a the obligatory ascended rings, amulets, and accessories am having fun. I do dungeons, open world stuff, living world (when it interests me), etc. All is okay. The point is, right now ascended armor is not crucial for playing the vast majority of the game…exotics work fine. If I reach the point where I absolutely, positively have to have the ascended armor, I will have to prioritize that and engage in activities that will get that for me…crafting at this point. Until then, I am happy for those that have taken the time and effort to do it…and am happy with my decision to play as I want and live with exotics.
Like others, I started with a bunch of friends making transitions out of WoW into…something else. Of those who started with me, only one remains in the game actively. Most of what I heard from them largely centers around the situation that…they left WoW with a full stable of fully geared toons with lots of gold and able to pretty much do anything they wanted. They come to GW2 and…bam…they are at the bottom of the ladder…no gold…low level gear…doing low level stuff…and facing many things that are entirely different (as others have pointed out). For a number of them, it was more comfortable going back to WoW where they were “masters of all.”
I know that my wife has gone back to WoW primarily for this reason. She was good at her characters, all of which were very, very well geared, running raids, with a very healthy bank account. She tried GW2 but, for her it was just chock full of frustrating mechanics, miserable rewards (compared to WoW), and a sense of just being at the bottom of the game again. She returned to WoW where she is just more comfortable…and that is more important to her than the challenge and excitement of a new game.
Again, this merely points out that people come to MMOs with vastly different preferences and expectations. The extent to which someone is happy or satisfied with a game (or, really, any product) is highly dependent on their preferences and expectations coming in.
Most of the time alone…but it depends on the content. If I am wanting to do dungeons, I go with guild members. Sometimes on the LS parts I find it best to grab a friend and work together. Mostly, though, I plow through saving the world on my own…and enjoy it.
I have seen the permanent tools come for specified periods…go for a while…then come back. They recently changed them so they are account bound (and cost a bit more) but, I suspect they will re-appear periodically in the BLTC. Just keep an eye out and have patience.
I enjoyed this particular LS segment…from the initial discovery of the tower to its conclusion…but the ending cut scene really did it for me. Thanks…definitely enjoyed it.
Charrnobyl the Radient
Gets my vote!!!
Hello !
Am I the only one who totally doesn’t care about minis ? I mean they are totally useless and aesthetically speaking they look like nothing. The problem is that we are receiving minis as rewards for living story achievements, as if EVERYONE wanted only minis, and I would love to have a choice between minis and something else as reward.I don’t like minis, are you in the same situation ? Do you find strange players who want to have them all ? Speak up !
Nope…you are not the only one. I would not walk across the street for one. But…glad they are there for the folks that do like them.
If they add a Chicken mini it can cross the street for you and be your best friend. <3
Ah yes….worth 800 gems at least.
Hello !
Am I the only one who totally doesn’t care about minis ? I mean they are totally useless and aesthetically speaking they look like nothing. The problem is that we are receiving minis as rewards for living story achievements, as if EVERYONE wanted only minis, and I would love to have a choice between minis and something else as reward.I don’t like minis, are you in the same situation ? Do you find strange players who want to have them all ? Speak up !
Nope…you are not the only one. I would not walk across the street for one. But…glad they are there for the folks that do like them.
I don’t remember the exact details, but I gifted the electronic version to my son…and it worked fine. I just purchased the game and then e-mailed him the link to download and activate…which he did with his own e-mail address. Seemed to work without a hitch.
This is a topic that really interests me. I have never been a guild master but have been a guild officer (over in WoW) and I am a very engaged and happy guild member here in GW2.
It seems to me (my own opinion/observation) that guilds (as with most collections of people) can be viewed in one of two ways. It I can be a group of people who come together and agree to be affiliated in order to play a certain content. In other words, the association (the guild) is merely a means to an end…having the human resources to play content that you want to play. Another way of looking at it is the group of people who come together and form relationships…and are willing to play pretty much any content in order to play as a group and enjoy each other’s company. Clearly these are not mutually exclusive and there is a lot of overlap. But…I have seen the extremes and the impact they can have on guilds. I have seen the people that join a guild only because they think it will allow them to do certain things or get more help or even have access to a guild bank. My experience has been that these folks will move on quickly as they perceive “better deals.” They might find guilds that consume content faster and move more quickly. They might find guilds that offer more perks. The key is, they are looking for the best deal or fit for what they want to do.
My experience is that it takes longer to coalesce around a group that values relationships more than specific content or benefits. I find that, when I have joined guilds and did not manage to cement solid relationships. I was willing to participate in the activities but never really felt “a part of things.” I was, in those circumstances, always ready to leave for a better deal. In the one or two instances over the past 7 years where I have actually grown to like the people in the guild and enjoy their company (regardless of the activity) I find that I don’t even think about leaving and am much more flexible about the activities that I join. I am much more willing to move out of my comfort zone to more challenging content if I am with people I like and respect. I also find that I take much greater pride in my guild when the relationships are solid.
Sorry for the rambling…but I guess my point is that, in forming a new guild, you would have to understand and accept that you will get a lot of recruits that are there for the “best deal” and are likely to move on quickly. It takes time and a lot of effort to build a core of people that, despite their diversity, can form solid relationships within the game and become a part of a true relationship-based guild.
Finally, I know that others feel differently. I have had this discussion with a lot of players in different games. Many feel that they are in the game for their own enjoyment and, to the extent that their needs are met in a guild, they will play with it. When an opportunity presents itself to move on to what they perceive a better situation, they will do it without hesitation. I cannot say that this is wrong. Only that my own observation is that guilds that have a solid core of people who genuinely enjoy each other’s in-game company tend to generate a lot more guild loyalty. Just my own limited observation.
A lot of the GW2 community kind of reminds me of that one kid at Chuck E. Cheese’s.
See, when you go to Chuck E. Cheese’s, you eat pizza and you play games (or I guess you could spend your whole day in the urine-soaked ball pit). Some games give out tickets. Those tickets can be exchanged for little gifts. To complete the experience, it’s nice to at least go home with a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pencil topper.
But there’s always that one kid who knows the trick. He knows that skee-ball pays out way more tickets than anything else, if you’re good at it. And he’s good at it. So that’s all he plays for 6 hours straight, with only a quick break for pizza. By the end, he’s probably sick of skee-ball. But the tickets! He’s going home with pencil toppers of all four Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!
There’s a lot more to do in the game when you’re not chasing the tickets.
This right here is dead on. I’ve been playing since beta, and I know I’m in the ball park of 2500 hours played. 2 k of which is on my main. And I still love the hell out of this game.
It retains my interest through living story, WvW, and sPvP, all of which I do depending on my mood. I have all that time in and STILL not even close to significant rank in PvP, nor a dungeon master title. I hate plugging and my guild is both small and often busy irl.
The key is I never do anything that doesn’t really interest me. It creates this positive feedback loop where every time I Iog in I’m entertained or challenged in some way. Which keeps me logging in.
Yet somehow while playing this game in ways the “uber” players would consider stupid and inefficient, I’ve managed to enjoy the hell out of this game to date, AND still have plenty left to do.
My thoughts exactly. Well said.
I am sorry for your loss. And curious. What difference would it make if the scammer was ‘face-to-face’ with you? I mean, if the method of exchange was the same….whether he is across the zone or standing right in front of you, you would still have trusted enough to send him the gold first, no?
In other MMOs that I have played, the face-to-face trade is a special window. All items to be traded must be in the box and then both can click “accept.” If one of the items is subsequently withdrawn (as in an attempted scam), the “accept” status resets and then both members must again accept. It is a much more scam-proof system than sending by mail. WoW also has a COD option on the mail which allows a person to send an item COD…and the other party cannot take the item until they accept…which automatically deducts gold from them. I don’t see anything in GW2 that works that way…but I have not really explored it.
I play some LS…skip others. If it interests me and looks fun, I play. Otherwise, I do other things.
I have nothing against raids per se…in fact, my most memorable moment of MMO playing was downing the Lich King. And yes, I know PVP is different, I know graphics are different…but vertical profession is vertical progression. You cannot get off the treadmill or you fall behind. The whole point of doing the raid is to get the “better gear” which will then allow you to get into the next set of raids that come, which will drop “even better gear.” Whether it is “WoW-style” or not…it is still vertical gear progression and you either keep on peddling or you fall off the treadmill.
If, however, they add that 10-25 man instance that drops some gear…and similar stat gear is available through other avenues then I have no real problem with it. It is when the raid becomes the “end all be all” of content and unless you play it, you are wasting your time in game. If they can get around that conundrum, then I don’t really care one way or the other.
And, yes, I do understand and have experienced that unity and sense of belonging that comes with raiding…it is cool for sure. But, at least for me, I get the same sense from my guild missions. I know that is not the same thing and that not everyone feels the same way as I do…this is just my take on the subject.
I have six characters and all are fully outfitted with the permanent tools…it was worth the gem purchase to me to equip them. I hope to eventually get two more character slots so I have one of each profession to play, and I will purchase a complete set for each. Yes, yes, I know that with account bound tools I can move them around…but for me, the convenience of just logging on and playing and then logging off without depositing my tools in the bank is trumps the relatively small amount of money I spend on the one-time purchase. Certainly others will feel differently…as they have different preferences and circumstances. This just works for me.
For me, if I want progression raids accompanied by increasing gear stats then I would return to WoW where I have a full stable of max level toons and a huge infrastructure that is designed around that concept. No need to switch games to do the same thing.
My end game is merely doing things I enjoy on my max level characters. Sometimes dungeons, sometimes LS, sometimes just open world events, or gathering and crafting…just whatever appeals to me at the time. The addition of an instanced 10-25 player experience (i.e., raid) would not matter to me at all…unless it becomes a part of a steady content/gear progression. At that point, it is merely WoW with a different set of graphics.
ok…
This is not the first thread concerning the have’s and the have not’s. I am absolutely sure it won’t be the last.
For purposes of this post, the term “casual” will be meant to group those with small amounts of time together, and not to mean that the group has no skills. I have seen many extremely skilled “casuals.”
Personally, I think everyone who has ever played the “old style” MMOs should take off their rose-colored glasses and remember the relentless grind for even minor upgrades. “casual players” didn’t exist much then, because at the time, all “casual” meant was that they didn’t have the time to do the grind, or do the raid that took 6 hours (or more) to get mediocre rewards that barely got them to the next level.
Some games gave you decent rewards, but in order to use them you had to be level (insert insane number here.) I remember one in particular that had 150 levels, but the “quests” that would level you ran out at level 65. Every level after that was a grind.
And for those of you who remember EQ1, once you left the “beginner” zone, it was go to A and kill B until you reach level C and then go to D, rinse and repeat.
As MMOs evolved, more rewards were given and less grind, but still there is grind in almost every game on the market.
So-called “casuals” cannot compete in any of them.
The biggest difference in THIS game is that people who do not have hours upon hours to play every day can still get decent gear and be competitive. One doesn’t absolutely NEED Ascended gear, or Legendary Weapons in order to play the game at level 80.
The grind is reserved for those who want that extra bit of style, or that extra 10% advantage in WvW. If you’re not willing to work (grind or buy) for it (even if it takes months) then you don’t deserve it. Period.
I refuse to “grind.” I play maybe an hour a day, with a bit more on the weekends. I can count on one hand the times I’ve run a dungeon, and I have never set foot in Fractals. I have full exotics on all my 80’s and I have a few nice things I have paid for. I love WvW, and I am one of the few forum denizens that seem to like the LS. I will be the first to say I am relatively casual (it took me 6 months to get my first level 80,) and I will also be the first to say that I don’t deserve an Ascended or Legendary because I am not willing to put in the time or effort it takes to get one.
One thing I won’t do is come to the forums and complain that player X has more shineys than I do because he has more time to play than I do. I can get those shineys too, but it will take me longer.
So what?
Was going to wade in and present my thoughts…but this does it quite nicely.
If we define “end game” in the more traditional sense as the final piece of the content progression such as raiding, etc. then probably a very low number…maybe 1 or 2. If, however, the “end game” is merely the collection of activities and things to do at max level rather than some structured content/gear progression, then it becomes much more important, say 7 or 8. To be more precise, “my end game” includes things such as finishing map completion on all of my toons, dungeons from time to time, gathering and crafting, and random dynamic events. I sometimes do some of the LS activities but only when it interests me.
My “end game” is merely the collection of things I like doing with my max level characters. Currently all my toons are level 80 so it follows that “my end game” is very important. But, I am anxiously awaiting the next character slot gem sale when I hope to purchase two more character slots – I actually enjoy the leveling…not so much seeing the content again but learning about the professions and trying things out.
Hmmm…nope…not bored. But, I do consume content much slower than some others so I am still at that point where I feel a lot of variety in what I do. I suspect that, within a few years, I will indeed get the sense that I have seen it all…but that is really a long way off for me.
I suspect (and this conversation tends to bear that out) that views on guilds are much like views on other aspects of the game…different people view them differently. For me, a guild is mostly about relationships. Yes, it does make it easier for casuals (like me) doing fractals and other dungeons and I get a kick out of the guild missions. But, as others have pointed out, I can do the dungeons and fractals without a guild. But the thing is, I really like the folks in my guild. I admire and respect the guild master and have a great deal of fun bantering and chatting when doing things like missions and dungeons. These are just a great bunch of folks and I feel at home around them. That is what the guild means to me. I belong to only one guild and I represent all of the time.
Since I am not in the guild management structure, I don’t know much about the guild management tools in the game. Those that manage guilds are in a much better position to comment than I. I (personal view only) don’t really see the draw or value of guild housing but…I certainly don’t oppose it. It just doesn’t much matter to me. When I am playing, I am out in the world doing things…I don’t tend to hang around cities. My socializing is done while playing rather than while hanging out.
So, for me, the answer to the original question is that it provides some level of structure and organization for a group of people I really like playing with. Some activities, some discussion, some help when needed…but mostly just playing with people I enjoy.
Well I guess discussions like this never get serious replies compared to the other drama post and hyperbole fandom on this forum does..
An interesting question…and one that, at least for me, requires some interpretation. Is the question related to what I would do to please myself in the game – in other words, what would I like to see? Or is it what would I do if I were head of development to make sure that the game appealed to the largest group of potential customers? Those are two very different questions. That said…
If the question is about what I want in the game, then really not much of what the OP detailed is compelling. I want to make clear that I am not saying that OP is wrong…merely that their preferences do not align well with my own. I am personally pretty much a solo PVE player that also does guild missions without fail. So, I would love more open world PVE opportunities where I could collaborate with others that are around but not be forced to join organized groups. I like the jumping puzzles, although I am not that good at them….they are fun. And more guild missions. They are fun and I have to admit they are the highlight of my week.
Again, though, these are just my own personal preferences. If I were in charge of moving the game forward to appeal to the larger player base, my answers would be much different and in fact might not be so far off from the OP.
I am in a pretty fair sized guild. We do guild missions three times a week…lots of involvement. Really great guild leadership. Lots of opportunities to jump into dungeon groups if you want but there is no pressure or pushing.
I do guild missions consistently but rarely jump into dungeons – just my preference. I thoroughly enjoy the missions and make it a point not to miss them. Otherwise, I keep guild chat up and follow what folks are saying but rarely jump into the conversations. All in all…I am very happy in my guild. It is one of the things that makes the game what it is.
Although I am not the OP, I want to thank all of you for the comments. This is an incredibly helpful thread for me. Thanks all.
I am a casual and I am fine with the game as is. I play the way I want and do not feel any pressure to do things that do not interest me. I do dungeons sometimes…but not often. I do some LS stuff…but not all of it and some I ignore completely. If content seems a bit “too much” for me, I simply ignore it and cheer those other players on that can do it.
The only things I feel a strong obligation to do are scheduled guild missions. I feel this obligation because…frankly I like being in my guild; I like and respect the other guild members; and part of being in a guild is doing your part.
I am satisfied that my gear (mostly exotic with some ascended laurel and guild commendation pieces) will see me through the content that I want to play. Not sure what else to say.
About $200 – extra bag slots, bank slots, one extra character slot, and some perpetual gathering tools. In retrospect…very pleased with my purchases and the value I received.
I guess since this is where we are post our opinions and reactions, I shall weigh in…
I read this forum before I logged in today and wasn’t quite sure what the issue was. I have since logged in and see. I am absolutely…well…sort of…disappointed. It would not have been my first choice of things to come from this patch but, at least for me, it doesn’t rise to the level of outrage or even anger. I looked over the situation…made some quick strategic assessments about how to proceed….and on we go.
This is in no way meant to denigrate those who are angry or outraged…this is merely my reaction.
Legendaries…not really interested. A year into this game I am having a great time and haven’t missed them.
What are you talking about they are doing great financially they rake in money from the no so smart people who are buying there legendarys and are giving us chump change events in a map that was created 12 months ago…. They are rolling the dough ripping the players off and making bank like farmville does in facebook!
They make money for their shareholders, which is what they are supposed to do. What they do with that money is really the business of shareholders and management. If you are unhappy with the game, that is another matter. It is reasonable to complain that the product, service, etc. does not meet expectations or can be improved. And those discussions, I expect, are very important to Arenanet if they hope to maintain their player base. I am not certain that framing that game assessment discussion in terms of how they manage their money will accomplish much.
Really, in summary, the earnings statement referenced by Vayne and Gehenna are readily available for different time periods. For those interested in such things, check them out.
For more in depth analysis, financial institution associations publish key metrics by industry such as profit margins, earnings per share, etc. These are also helpful in determining how well or poorly a company is doing compared to its competition and the industry at large.
One thing that we are not likely to see on the financial statements are numbers related to actual players. Others more knowledgeable than I in this area likely can comment better on how the game is doing in terms of players.
460k concurrent players is quite a bit…but as far as I remember that was just after the release. I don’t think it ever got near that in 2013.
Also they paid a company to calculate for them if they were the fastest selling MMO in the west….a bit dubious by itself but it was a calculation done over the first 9 months.
Numbers can be interesting but I prefer the context of the numbers with it. Obviously Anet want to focus on their main points (they wouldn’t put up any numbers on how many players quit or how many concurrent users there are today) and I can understand that seeing they want to impress China and revitalise some interest here because the game is barely stabilising after the usual downfall after a few months that pretty much every MMO has.
GW2 has made some impressive numbers left and right, that’s for sure but even though 460k players is perhaps more than there are inhabitants in Iceland, it’s also 0.0065% of the world population or not even 1.5% of the US population. So it’s all how you want to focus it really.
For an MMO it’s a lot. Quite impressive, but that number is almost a year old. So they are numbers but without a neutral context it’s just clever advertising, nothing more.
I expect that one of the reasons we do not get number for people who quit is that, without subscriptions, it is kind of hard to know who quit. Some folks take some time off while others may indeed leave. Perhaps a decent proxy might be the number of people logged on at a given time or set of times each day or week over long periods. Again, not a perfect proxy but might help to better get sense of continuing engagement.
Well I don’t think any company gladly shares numbers like that. It’s still about context though. If you make a definition then you can use it as long as people know what the definition is.
I think that a player who hasn’t logged in for over a month isn’t active. That could be a definition.
Concurrency is a more interesting one in that sense as it tells you how many people are online at the same time. Sadly, we only have the 460k that the game had directly after the release a year ago…since then? Not a clue.
Yup…agree.
460k concurrent players is quite a bit…but as far as I remember that was just after the release. I don’t think it ever got near that in 2013.
Also they paid a company to calculate for them if they were the fastest selling MMO in the west….a bit dubious by itself but it was a calculation done over the first 9 months.
Numbers can be interesting but I prefer the context of the numbers with it. Obviously Anet want to focus on their main points (they wouldn’t put up any numbers on how many players quit or how many concurrent users there are today) and I can understand that seeing they want to impress China and revitalise some interest here because the game is barely stabilising after the usual downfall after a few months that pretty much every MMO has.
GW2 has made some impressive numbers left and right, that’s for sure but even though 460k players is perhaps more than there are inhabitants in Iceland, it’s also 0.0065% of the world population or not even 1.5% of the US population. So it’s all how you want to focus it really.
For an MMO it’s a lot. Quite impressive, but that number is almost a year old. So they are numbers but without a neutral context it’s just clever advertising, nothing more.
I expect that one of the reasons we do not get number for people who quit is that, without subscriptions, it is kind of hard to know who quit. Some folks take some time off while others may indeed leave. Perhaps a decent proxy might be the number of people logged on at a given time or set of times each day or week over long periods. Again, not a perfect proxy but might help to better get sense of continuing engagement.
My assumptions are based on my years of gaming and stuff posted in this very forum. While these could not be facts necessarily, they are merely observations that I have seen demonstrated which seem to be aligned with the truth.
I could say that you have no facts to disprove my assumptions, but that may be a little convenient for me, so I will try not to take that cope out, but we will see.
I think you might be missing the point of what people are saying. I, for one, am not saying that you are absolutely wrong. I merely said that I was skeptical. You have no proof and your observations over the years are different than my observations. And of course, I have no evidence either. So, in terms of assumptions, both of us are kind of in the same place. What I believe, though, is that MMO marketing departments have enough sophistication to tease out the profit potential in various market segments. If the industry state and approach today provides any insight into that analysis, it would seem that there must be some perceived profit potential there in keeping both segments engaged.
And so, at least to me, that answers the question “why cater to casuals?”
“Death is just a part of life.” (Mama Gump…I think)
Actually, I die a lot but not as much as I used to. I have learned a lot about the game mechanics, specific encounters and types of mobs, and about my characters. I die more at lower levels than higher levels. My ele died the most…my ranger the least. At level 80, my necro and my mesmer die the least.
Will have to check out the /deaths thing…would be interesting.
So I never really understood this logic.
Why cater to casuals?
I have heard claims and claims that there is a larger casual base than a hardcore base…. but is this really true?
Now I might be wrong here, but I would imagine casuals are the people more likely to move from game to game after 1 month or so then a hardcore player.
So what I see Guild Wars 2 doing is:
Most casuals move on to other games in 1 month or so no matter what you add to the game. It is just their nature.At the same time, hardcore players are alienated and leave.
So the outcome is that you are losing on both sides. Would it not be better to keep the hardcore fan-base, so you are at least winning on 1 side?
Maybe Im missing something here…. hmmmm
Well…yes (assuming you were really looking for answer)…you have. You assume by your own admission that casuals move on after a month or so no matter what, although you admit that you might be wrong. Then you base your entire argument on that assumption. My hunch is that your observed sample of players is no better than mine and vice versa. Unless you have some empirical evidence that clearly demonstrates that your assumption is correct, then I view it with some skepticism.
And if you remove the assumption that casuals move on quickly, then the question would really be “why not provide content to attract and retain casuals?” I feel pretty confident in saying that the combined segments of hard core and casual players results in a bigger customer base than either segment alone. Even if you allow for the disillusioned players in both groups that move on, the combined segments are still likely to be larger than either group alone. Mind you, I have no data to support this but as you look at the biggest MMO performers, most try and provide content for both groups. That tells me that their marketing research shows good profit potential through aggregation of the two segments rather than pursuing one to the exclusion of the other.
To recognize the concern of the OP, though, it is a difficult challenge to try and provide meaningful experience to both groups. One only has to visit the forums of other MMOs to see that this argument is not unique to GW2. As a casual, it is frustrating to me when all of the development focus seems to be toward hard core players and I can only imagine that it is equally frustrating to hard core players if new content seems to focus only on the other half. Finding and maintaining that balance seems to be the holy grail of MMO marketing.
If I am reading the comments correctly, much of the sentiment is “for a level 80, I would like Queensdale to be just as challenging as Orr.” In other words, when we downscale to an area, it should be as if we were still in an 80 area…just has a different name and appearance. Perhaps I am misreading…but that is what I am getting out of many of these posts.
So, my own personal response is…not really. I spend a bit of time in Orr and really enjoy it (die a lot…but still fun)…there is no question that it is challenging for me as a solo player. But sometimes I like to go back into lower areas. Sometimes to uncover parts of the map; sometimes in pursuit of daily achievements; sometimes to help my wife with parts that she is struggling with. I personally would prefer that this be a little less intense for me than trying to plug through Orr.
In other MMOs that I have played, there is no downscaling (although I am sure there is downscaling in some others…I just haven’t seen it before). And yes, going back into Teldrasill as a level 90 in WoW is a bit overkill. I would hope there could be some middle ground. Downscaling to make it a bit more relevant but not so brutal as to make every single zone the constant high intensity combat – constant threat of death experience. overall, I am okay with what is in place now, although it seems clear that I am in the minority, at least in this thread.
The casual of this game is sickening to be honest. If the development team is really aspiring to make a casual MMO (Which is a contradiction in itself) why wouldn’t they just make an I-pad game or something.
Uh…I suspect that there was an element of business strategy involved. From the looks of it, I would say that it was a good business decision.
As a “casual” I can give you my perspective. I have no problem if Anet wants to put out challenging content so long as they continue to put out some content for us mortals. I have no real problem if there are better rewards for that content so long as the game does not evolve into a gear progression game. Specifically, if they want some special skins or titles buried behind “raid” walls for highly organized teams of hardcore players, I personally don’t care unless the rewards provide better stats. At that point, we are into gear progression…which is why I left WoW.
Interesting thread, but who can deny that GW2 is the perfect MMO? :/ change your expectations!
I can and I do. It’s not perfect. Is this some simplistic troll attempt or do you seriously think any game is perfect? It’s not about perfection, it’s about being exciting and it pulling you back in, even though there are flaws. People have very different opinions about that as you can see.
I agree. I am perhaps the world’s biggest GW2 fan but I readily admit it is not perfect. In fact, there are things I might change about it. But despite the fact that I do not find it perfect, I do like the game and enjoy playing. And yes, this is just my opinion and other people will have other opinions…all just as valid as mine.
That’s cute…. the OP thinks they need money.
When they needed money in Gw1, they planned more expansions. Any MMO, you can tell when they’re desperate, is when they put out more expansions, especially excessive triviality or powercreep ones …. which can actually go in BOTH EXTREMES if you look at the last WoW expansions.
Meanwhile this studio is admitting up and down that they haven’t even given serious thought to any expansions yet. They were actually CLOSER to knowing where they wanted to go with expansion scheduling 2 years ago. You know what that’s called? It’s called financial freedom. They already sold 3 million copies of this game. It took them more than 2 years to sell 3 million copies of Prophecies & Factions combined. And on top of that, they’re also getting a lot more Microtransactions than the first game got in its first couple years.
So no, they don’t NEED money. That’s a lie. Stop misrepresenting the truth plz, to justify whatever it is you’re attempting to justify…
In fairness, and with all due respect, it seems that you are basing your conclusions on the extent to which they have covered their development costs and are able to cover ongoing operating costs. There is also the required profit and return to shareholders who invested their money and continue to hold ownership positions. As shareholders, we get our reward for investing in companies such as this by having our shareholder value increased over time. That can be through stock price appreciation or through dividends…and I honestly don’t know what the dividend policy is at NCSoft. My point, though, is that profit is a requirement…not a “nice to have” thing.
As for how much profit they should make…as a shareholder my response is as much as they can (without breaking the law). If profits are excessive, economists tell us that the “market will fill”…that is, excessive profits will draw new market participants (new companies) and gradually the profits come down to some stable level as the amount of money spent by consumers is spread over more companies.
Sorry…perhaps a long-winded way of saying that a company will pursue profits as long as they are there to be had. Suggesting that they should not pursue them simply because they have enough money now makes little business sense. As to whether their best bet is new expansion versus gem stores versus subscriptions…I would expect that their marketing and financial people have looked very closely at this. Successful business strategy is rarely happenstance.
First, all the statements about the game being “faceroll easy” or “excruciatingly hard” must be taken in reference to individuals and their skill levels. I hate to break it to you…but open world PVE is not easy….for me. Having leveled 6 characters to 80…I died a lot…cursed a lot…and hung my head in utter frustration a lot. It was in no way easy for me. But, it was not so hard that I want if nerfed. On the other hand, several of my friends quit early on because it was just too much for them.
The upshot? For some, such as the OP, the open world PVE is likely very easy and completely lacks challenge. For others, such as me (and my somewhat lesser skill level) it is suitably challenging. The problem is that Anet, along with the developers of most MMOs, must find that right amount of difficult…the degree of tuning so it presents the most engaging experience to the most people. Since we come with different levels of skill, that means that, from a practical perspective, some players will get no challenge at all. Other players will find it so difficult that they quit in frustration. Hopefully for the vast majority, though, there will be enough challenge to keep them engaged while not being so bad that they can’t manage it.
It is easy enough to set the desired standard based on our own individual skills and preferences. Arenanet, however, must tune the game for the greatest number. Not sure what that tuning should be but, as of right now, what is out there works for me.