Guild Wars 2

Serdoc.7261:

I am not sure who he is, or even what race he is, speculations?

Just another guy that was not able to find the frisbee.

Antara.3189:

Relentliss.2170:

I wanted to play an open world version of gw1.

This game does not fit that description. It kinda kittens on everything that made gw1 fun.

I totally agree, but now that Guild Wars 2 has been around over a year, it’s quite clear this will never be true. It was a a tough breakup with Guild Wars 1, but now that I’m over it, I am just glad to have been apart of it.

But!, The lore. The lore.. lore.. lore.
There are many unanswered mysterious that I wish to see expanded upon. The one thing I’m not currently happy with, is the current movement of the lore in the Living Story. The answer has been for months now, “Everything will be tied together, and will make sense in the future”. This story is sparactic and dragging too long imo. It makes it hard for players to follow along or leave and come back.

All respects to the efforts from the Lore/Writing team, but please re-think the story and provide some deep, interesting lore.

Imo the Scarlet story has a potentially interesting lore, but you have to read it on the official site :S

I’ll try to post it again and if this lead (again) to the thread cancellation: my apologies.

From Eurogamer Expo 2013
Q: How close are you to the manifesto you posted before the game’s release?
A: Still hold core values but had to make some adjustments during development. Sometimes we have to stray away from what we have said in the past.

Let’s see what was declared with the manifesto:

Points they are still close to:

• The look of Guild Wars 2 is stylized. We’re going for a painterly, illustrated aesthetic.
• Cause and effect: A single decision made by a player cascades out in a chain of events.

Points from which they have decided to stray away:
- Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world.

• B2P sustaining itself mainly through the release of new campaigns. No.
• GvG? No.
• Guild halls. No.
• Guild capes. No.
• UW? FoW? Alliance battle? No.
• Focus on Horizontal progression? No.
• Secondary profession? No.
• Region free servers? No.
• Alliance system? No.
• Skills capturing? No.
• Heroes? No.
• Low and persisting level cap? No.
• Hard Mode? No.
• Costumes? No.
• Dances differentiated by profession and gender. No.
• Lore. Are you serious?
• Etc etc. No. xD

- A game that defies existing conventions: (old school Mmorpg vs. Guild Wars 2)

• Vertical Progression. -> Vertical Progression (but slower)
• Farming. -> Farming.
• Quest system. -> Renamed: Hearts, Dailies, Living Story.
• Raid. -> (World Bosses?) ~ Work in progress ~
• Trinity. DPS/Tank/Healer -> Redefined: Warrior-Guardian-Mesmer

- We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that. No one finds it fun. We want to change the way that people view combat.

• Open PvE: Join the zerg spam 1, dodge if required (if not, you will roam alone in an almost dead world)
• Interact with “put some random object name” in the world for hundreds of times.
• Kill “put some random mob name” in the world for hundreds of times.

- As a structure, the MMO has lost the ability to make the player feel like a hero. Everybody around you is doing the same thing you are doing.

• Run in circle (Frostgorge/Queensdale/…) to kill Champions doing the same things others are doing and in the same order at the same time.
• You make all the hard work during the personal story, a salad take the credits.

- We respect you—as a player, as a human being.

• So they decided to totally ignore our feedback on forum and close every thread that disagree with their decisions, without giving us any response.

Gan Gan! Look! I’ve found the “everything you loved about Gw1”!
Finally… now we can rest in peace xD

It’s the Dragon’s Revelry Starcake

Behellagh.1468:

It’s not constructive to ask them to abandon their game design for another game design. No they won’t bring back the MMO triad. No they will not add dozens upon dozens of trait/skills to complicate character builds, they simplified it for a reason. No they will not add a tool to allow party builders to exclude players, they intentionally want as many players to be included as possible which is why no tagging, no KS, no loot ninja, XP for every activity under the sun, etc.

And grindy? I’ve played some grindy MMOs and this ain’t one of them unless you choose it to be or you define grind so broadly that any activity other than sandbox is considered a grind.

So we’re stuck with the collective droning of why this game is so bad. Is that what you’re saying, you will never move on. What you like abusive relationships? You all obviously don’t like this game yet you stay on.

I don’t know if we can have an abusive relationship with a game, but I can understand that a lot of players treat Gw2 like their gf/bf.

We are still here because the game has potential. That’s why.
What some of us are doing is it trying to keep alive the memory of what this game was supposed to be, because people tend to forget.
And asking ANet devs to reconsider their decisions.
I also try to dissuade people that don’t like mmorpg from buying it, because if that was a good selling point before november, now it is a really misleading advertisement, even if the game manage to get rid/reduce some annoying dynamics typical of wow clones.
We are not asking for a totally different game, just a game cleansed from void tasks.

Trajan.4953:

Behellagh.1468:

You are not being forced to learn to play a musical instrument or being force to play a youth sport that you have no interest in learning or playing.

You bought a product. You don’t like it. You state your opinion to the manufacturer why you don’t like it. They don’t address your concerns. You chalk it up to a bad buying decision and you move on.

You don’t set up camp and a soap box on their property and restate your objections over and over and over again for the rest of the product’s lifespan. We get it, you don’t like it for reasons XYZ.

If this was a subscription based MMO then you would have to keep paying to hang around protesting but since it’s a buy to play game you get the linger here forever and frankly after a year it’s getting old.

The only hope we have against you types is when ESO, Black Desert or whatever new MMO you choose comes out is that when it disappoints your echo chambered, self deluded expectations that you will then glom onto their forum and we can have relative peace and quiet with players that are willing to provide constructive criticism rather than a list of nonnegotiable demands.

This exactly.

Constructive criticism run out its course months ago after hundreds of suggestions and not a single response.
Btw a lot of the people who complain (me included) are not interested in grindy mmo, this is why we are still here hoping that something will change in the future.
I doubt you’ll see us definitively disappear when the next wow clone will be out.
On the contrary (imo), when those games will be launched, gw2 will lose a lot of players, but most of us will be not between them.

Unfortunately it is highly unlikely
Ma del resto in questo gioco, rispetto al primo titolo, la lingua italiana è solo una delle miriadi di cose assenti.

eisberg.2379:

Devata.6589:

Because GW2 is not really a B2P game that focuses in sale of the game and expansions for income but more of a F2P game (that you need to buy) that focuses on cash-shop as income.

So now they do this sort of bad thinks to make money.

Try not to buy any gems, that might help them to shift back to a real B2P system where everything is available ingame but where you pay for an expansion every year year and a half.

What real B2P MMOs are there out there? Please do not say Guild Wars 1, that is in fact not an MMO, so it doesn’t count and cannot be used as an example since they are 2 different genre of games.

Permitting that for me Gw1 is an mmorpg, let’s try this reasoning.
Gw1 is a CORPG.
Vindictus is an MMORPG, but in reality for your definition is a CORPG.
Gw1 is a B2P.
Vindictus is a F2P.
We have 2 game with very similar mechanics, that you and ANet call CORPG, but with different paying models.

So using a B2P model instead of a F2P is a choice of the owners.
In Gw1 devs could make an entire expansion in just 6 months usign their earnings, they simply deliberately decided to slow down at some point.

If Gw2 wanted it could have gone with the real B2P, but someone chose to focus on the Living Story (take a look on the Chinese site, all you can see there is devs screaming LIVING STORY!1!!1! DE!1!!! Offtopic: I didn’f found a word on the horizontal progression .-.).

Btw going back on topic.
To @Devata
If you think about it hairstyles are something like weapon/armor skins, just a way to personalize your appearance and however they are not so hardly to obtain nor temporary

Aaaand this is just what I was talking about.
Glad to see another thread killed like this.
ANet please continue to hide your flaws under the carpet, it will do you good.

darkace.8925:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

ANet is running a fair risk with the LS, they wouldn’t adapt it if it wasn’t directly related to lower sales.

I pains me to say this, but I hope it blows up in their face. If the quality of content we’re getting in the Living Story is the future of this game, I’d rather fail spectacularly. I’m hoping the players will send ArenaNet the clear message that quality, not quantity, is what matters when it comes to content. But as of now I don’t think enough players share my opinion on the Living Story. So I have to bide my time and hope that enough players jump ship to the AAA MMOs on the docket for next year so that change can be effected.

I’m with you (even if I enjoyed part of that content).
Mainly because players that enjoy what this game seems to want to became will be probably pretty satisfied by future games. You are wise.

Every programmer, from every company, should be unemployed and have to find a new job if he takes part in the construction of a drug dealer machine that besots players, or better, that besots people.

This would be a fair dream on so many levels, and would lend to a world of mmorpg played for the fun without any psychological manipulation and cognitive dissonance.

Btw I think ANet guys didn’t throw into the abyss all their healthy values, time will tell us if they are worthy of our support. I wish a prosperous future for this company, but just if they return to treat people as rational human beings. Treating people like stupid makes people stupid (it’s called pygmalion effect). And I don’t know if a train of dumb people would be the ideal community for the growth of this game.

minbariguy.7504:

DireSwift.9083:

Oh, I quit reading this kitten thread after the 50th “Kitten”….my kitten lord what an annoying word that everyone uses for everything around here.

LOL, DireSwift, nobody really uses the word “kitten”. It’s the forum software that censors swear words and plugs the word “kitten” in to replace the bad word. But don’t worry, you’re not the first person to be completely bewildered by the prevalence of kittens around here! :-)

I was never censored, I use the word kitten on purpose :|

Galtrix.7369:

And of course they’re probably not going to give out a new hairstyle changer for free. You’ll have to buy the hairstyles that Anet should have had in the beginning of the game, but are now selling for probably 2000 gems each.

Probably not, but I see these new hairstyles more like a form of horizontal progression, that is 9999 times better than grinding for stats, I fully support this kind of update.

MikaHR.1978:

Numberz…on no wait…you speak out of your kitten rofl

Mika, I was angry at him too, but then I realized that he’s really arguing for the sake of arguing.
He has more than 7700 post and if you count the time he spent to post plus the time that he spent on reading the forum he invested (at least) 400-500 hours here, polishing his white armor.
Do as I do for each of his post ignore him and go on memecenter, you’ll laugh more than he makes you laugh, plus you will avoid the stress of understanding a mirrorclimber.
Again I understand you, but I totally stopped responding directly to him after this and I feel better:

dECA.2370:

But its not another skin or anything, its just a part of the armor that you was able to dye, so i dont get it, they dont need to replace anything, just make it dyeable again.

I can’t find it, but i remember a screenshot in beta of a Asuran engi, with white armor and green glowing flames, it was so insanely cool. Like, Dr. Madness lol

Indeed, I don’t think is a technical problem, it’s just that it would be too cool, and the grind would be too short, that’s all

I remember them and I liked them a lot, it would be too cool to implement back those skins, but they’re from a relatively easy dungeon.
If grindanet removed them there was a reason, so if you believe that they will replace the current ones, in my opinion, you will be a sad panda :/

Soon.
15dancingcharr

michael.1735:

i want to delete all my characterss and create new toon but will keep my gold with the new shared wallet or should i convert it to gems ? thanks

I dunno but if all your slots are full, delete just 1 character then create a new one and in the end delete the rest of them o_O

Gibson.4036:

I doubt it.
IMO, this has very little to do with the community and our forum habits…

snip

This is what ANet was supposed to be
7:48 if it doesn’t load correctly.

Thank you for the 20 points, they gave me a sense of progression

Julie Yann.5379:

Yeah Anet, plz no more tedious kittening pumpkin carving, or snowman building, or paper dragon activities nobody enjoys doing those.

We want to give you a meaningful experience, not one that is a vapid waste of your time. Whatever your reasons for spending time in Tyria, we don’t want to waste it by doing stuff that isn’t fun. ~Anet

Cross your fingers.
Imo activities like the Clock Tower (and regarding that specific one maybe we need less people in the same zone… even being all of the same size would help) should be the standard type of events :O

At current state most of the content can be experienced with exotic (almost no grind), complaints concern mainly the fact that we don’t know how much grindy it will be in the future and the small changes that devs made right now are worrying some people (me included), mostly casuals that want easily accessible BiS and just an horizontal progression.

And Holy Grind Wars went silently down the tube.

Vayne.8563:

In order to communicate, people have to define terms. Every definition of an MMORPG I’ve ever seen involves an open world…meaning a world that anyone can join random strangers in, without grouping before hand.

You say the instances in Guild Wars 1 exist before you enter them, but I’m thinking those instances are created for you, when you enter them. That’s why when two of us are in LA and I’m up to the War in Krtya content and someone else isn’t, when we go through the gate we get completely different zones. Mine are filled with high level and high functioning White Mantle, and someone else gets ettins and fire imps.

The zone is there for you only and you alone. If you enter alone, you remain alone.

And again, after years of playing MMOs, talking about MMOs with other people, reading about MMOs, this seems to be how most people define them. If you have a different defintion, it doesn’t really help you communicate with others.

Do you really were a teacher?
Even in my kitten arretrated country a lot of my countrymen know that mmo can be used outside the typical gaming context.
So speaking of mmo when we refer to the persistent world it’s not about being inside Shing Jea or roaming inside the Haiju Lagoon, it’s the possibility to join A WORLD, a virtual one and being there interacting with a lot of other people.
Usually you don’t have to party with anyone for entering inside any virtual world.

All the GW1 world was potentially there between our computer and the servers, so anyone could virtually experience the same world. But not necessarly in a synchronously way.

Shemsu.8721:

So you like to mince words except when it doesnt work out for you. By your definition every online fps is an mmo. However it really boils down to persistent vs instansted world. GW1 is mostly a single player game you can accomplish with henchmen/heroes. when you leave a map in gw1, its gone, when you leave a map in gw2 there are still events happening, players exploring etc. gw1 was a great game, but an mmo it was not

Instead when you leave the virtual world of GW1 the game crashes for everyone else xD
No by my definition FPS are not mmo (read it again :| ), but as I pointed out this is it for now.
I think that in the future mmorpg will merge the two types, think about it, talking about the mechanic, current mmorpg have become a lot more dynamic than in the past…

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 isn’t instanced though. It’s zoned, but the zones are open. That means anyone can freely enter them if there’s room.

In other words, if you enter an instance in Guild Wars 1 by yourself, no one else can EVER enter your instance. It’s done. It’s not open world.

In Guild Wars 2, if you leave divinity’s reach by yourself, other people can follow you out. That makes it, in the language that has evolved around MMOs anyway, NOT an instance.

Ok saying zoned is more correct.
The fact remains that in GW1 every specific area was accessible to all, whether you were there or not, so the world was persistent, and outposts were the connection points where were concentrated most of the social interactions.

To Daywolf.2630
It’s not just a marketing move, today mmo have nothing to do with the technology behind them or “where you put your players” they are all about interactions/partecipation/growth.

Unfortunately this sector rely too much on the last one of those points, influencing the behavior of the players in a pavlovian way.

Vorch.2985:

The only self-imposed restrictions you have made for yourself are FotM >20 (if you don’t want to “farm” fractals) and WvW (b/c people who love WvW obviously farm for full ascended gear before they enter).

You can do literally everything else in the game still. And karma should come naturally if you still play general PvE for 1-2 hours a day. No need to farm…

However, if the daily is too much effort for you…idk, man. I usually get mine done in 15 minutes after I do what I was going to do anyway. Takes about 30 minutes if I just log on for the daily (or 20 minutes if I decide to do the sPvP daily).

Erick Alastor.3917:

If it as nothing to do with numbers, even GW2 is istanced, but the cap is higher…
so GW2 is not an mmorpg…
Do you see now why I said that the only meter to define an mmorpg is the interaction between a lot of people? :O

No one you know would call that an MMO? (I have to post it again .-.)

Even ANet refers to GW1 as a CORPG…and it was.
As a GWAMM, I already know that GW1 was a CORPG…b/c it was.
There’s nothing wrong with that…

By your definition, CoD is an MMO b/c people interact on CoD forums and on voice chat.
While I do think the definition is a bit vague, I don’t think CoD would be considered an MMO by very many people.

I never played CoD, but as far I know it’s primarly an FPS, obviously that mechanic is something (for now) far from the mmorpg genere, and when I was talking about interaction (I thought it was clear) I meant social interactions on large scale that take place inside the virtual world (not on the forums or on a limited voice chat).
So no, I would not consider CoD an mmorpg.

I’m not ok with the definition of CORPG for the reason I already explained.
Why Vindictus and a lot of games like that are considered mmorpg and not GW1?
Why GW1 devs at some point felt the need to create this new acronym?

Everytime old gw1 players say something that they think was done better in GW1 to suggest how to manage this game, then that term is used to justify that it is not possible because one is a CORPG and the other one is an MMORPG.
Imo all bulkitten.

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Except that long before Guild Wars 1, players were playing with hundreds of people at the same time, so Guild Wars 1’s 12 player instances (and there were only two of those, most of the game was 8 player), couldn’t be considered massively multiplayer.

Your personal experience doesn’t change what the industry defines itself but what’s out on the market.

I mean WoW with it’s open world released before Guild Wars 1 did, and beyond that, Everquest, DAoC and others released before.

So a zone with less than 12 people (for what its worth you could potentially have as many as 24 people in one instance in GW1-not counting towns and outposts) in it is no longer an MMO ?

Where is the exact number of people required for something to be considered an MMO listed ? I think that you will find that the industry does not define itself in this regard.

A game’s release date, you mention WoW, EQ, and DAoC is not a number of players or a definition of a word (massive).

A company can call their product anything they like. They can even claim that it is not “X” if they like. That decision has no bearing on what the product actually is. If ANet opted to claim that GW1 was not a PC Fantasy computer game but rather a suped up digital adding machine pseudo medieval world simulator…it would be no less a PC fantasy computer game.

It’s not how many people are in the zone. The zone is instanced.

The first time I played Guild Wars 1, I kept walking up to NPCs in the “world” and trying to talk to them. Like in chat. Because I wasn’t used to not having players in the world.

In an MMO the world is open. Anyone can wander in. You don’t form a party and go out into your own instance. That’s what a dungeon is in a typical MMO.

It’s less about the number of players and more about the world being open to anyone who wants to enter it.

Guild Wars 1 was a lobby game. You formed your party in an outpost (lobby), then you entered an instance that no one else but your party could enter.

No one I know would call that an MMO.

If it as nothing to do with numbers, even GW2 is istanced, but the cap is higher…
so GW2 is not an mmorpg…
Do you see now why I said that the only meter to define an mmorpg is the interaction between a lot of people? :O

No one you know would call that an MMO? (I have to post it again .-.)

Vayne.8563:

Well you can make your own definitions of you like…no one will stop you. I think it’s not only the devs who defined the game that way. Many people from actual MMOs came to Guild Wars 1 and said it wasn’t an MMO. You may not agree with those people, but they were there. I’m one of them. I played WoW, before I played Guild Wars 1 and it sure wasn’t an MMO to me, long before I heard what the devs said.

Nevertheless it seems that a lot of people considered it an mmorpg, again… not a traditional wow clone, but still an mmorpg

Vayne.8563:

First of all, the same sorts of things you see on this forum, you see on other forums. Just look at Guild Wars 2 guru if you don’t believe me. There’s negativity on forums everywhere…in most MMOs, not just Guild Wars 2.

But people really were complaining about not having anything to do. The legendary wasn’t worth going for, because it was too much of a grind for the average person, and they’d hit level 80 run some dungeons and that was it.

Remember back then there were no guaranteed daily rares from world bosses, dungeons didn’t drop the same kind of loot, even, there were no Scarlet invasions. End game back then if you were a PvE’er were dungeon runs (fractals didn’t exist either) and running around Orr doing the event chains.

For a lot of people, they were farming, but for what? They already had the highest stats…and not everyone cares about skins (my sons for example).

And this game was sold mainly to people who just cared about skins and not stats, but the crowd grew, a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon also due the peculiar release date and even though they didn’t like the idea of skin progression they bought the game.
When they finally realized that this game was not created for them, they stated whining and this is what we have now.
slow clap for the evil genius that made it possible.

Vayne.8563:

Nope, the forum went belly up, so there’s nothing there anymore. It was gw2forum.com though, if you’re interested. And I don’t really care if you believe me or not. Your belief is not required to make something true or not true. There were enough people on these forums to remember how many threads there were about nothing to do at 80. I’m not making it up and if you don’t want to believe me, that’s perfectly fine. I’m happy with that.

No, I won’t show a friends list screenshot, because there are people in these forums immature enough to harass my friends. I’ve already been annoyed in game by people on these forums (which is fine because they’re annoying me, not anyone else). I wouldn’t subject anyone else on my friends list to some of the people who post here.

Again, if you don’t believe me, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t change the truth one iota.

Indeed my belief is not required, but showing proofs of what you say it’s another matter if you want to clarify your point of view to the readers.
I don’t know anything about your forum, but I remember that in this forum there were VP whiners, but also a lot of people that suggested them to change their minds because this was not a WoW clone.
And about your friendlist, do as I did, no one can be arrassed in that way

Vayne.8563:

No one is saying that Guild Wars 2 isn’t a true MMO. All I’m saying is Guild Wars 1 wasn’t a true MMO. Anet has acknowledged that themselves, so if you want to argue, feel free to argue with them.

I don’t know anyone who would say Guild Wars 2 wasn’t a true MMO.

Indeed no one is saying that, I’m saying that GW1 was an mmo as well no matter how much devs deny it
You can say that GW1 was less similar to WoW/WoW clones, but this dosn’t make it less mmo than them.

Vayne.8563:

It has to do with the absence of a persistent world…at least that’s how most of the MMO sites define it, and it’s the definition I’ve been working with for a long time. A lobby game isn’t an MMORPG to many, many people. It’s a lobby game.

In order to really be a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER RPG it has to allow massive amounts of people to play together at the same time. Twelve isn’t that massive.

Untrue, due to its changing nature all we can say about a mmorpg is that, in order to be such, a lot of players need just to interact together, and this was possible even in gw1.
Then you can argue as much as you like, but facts shows that here in gw2 you can have events like tequila where even if a lot of players are virtually in the same place spamming skills they are literally in a non-lieu.
Where is the community here?
Ah right running in circle in frostgorge.

Just to remember

fellyn.5083:

So sorry. We’ll use Anets definition.

GW1 was one of if not the first b2p CORPG games in the NA market.

And who cares anyways? It’s a game that a lot of people play(ed) online with other people.

This time I’m with fellyn, CORPG is just a silly acronym that anet invented to justify the supposed impossibility to reply GW1 experience with GW2.
Why is GW1 a CORPG and Vindictus an MMORPG?
Bullkitten, corpg simply don’t exist.
If we have to take in consideration the definition of CORPG then even GW2 is a CORPG, we have instanced areas, the world is not fully open and we have overflows, how many people have to fight together in the same zone to be called MMORPG? No one knows, because no one setted such number.

It’s not that we don’t believe you, but you know, to be credible sometimes it’s better to show evidence of what you say.
So

Vayne.8563:

If you were around then, you’d have seen thread after thread after thread about people with nothing to do at max level. It was almost a pandemic. Not just here but on other forums, like the one I moderated.

Can we have the links of those complaints on the forum that you moderated?

Vayne.8563:

Funny my friends list is full of people who said 100% they’re not coming back. Most of them came back.
Odd thing that.

Can you show us a screenshot of your friendlist?

This is mine (and no, I’ve not stopped to play in November)
Clearly not all of the guys in this list quitted at the time of the screenshot, something like 5% of them are still actively playing.

Lynne.8416:

OP: I don’t agree. I am casual, I do not log in every day. Sometimes I do dailies, sometimes I don’t. Casual players just need to decide what they “want” to do the day that they play. WvW, Map completion, dailies, living world etc etc. This game caters to casuals we are not “hindered” by not playing every day, it just takes us longer to achieve everything.

But doing what OP says should not influence the way you will play :|
So why not?
And if dailies are made just to push players into logging on daily basis and not to help casuals then this is a sick system.
If a player logs when he feels to do so instead of when he perceive he need to do so, I think he would be happier, and an happy player is an happy customer.

fellyn.5083:

I think it’s worth pointing out that most of those games were not made for the NA or EU market where as all most of the games that Vayne listed were.

My bad again, I thought that we were talking about games with no sub fee available in western market, so I clearly should have excluded games created for the eastern market and then extended in the western market in the same period.
This changes everything, occidentals were not supposed to play those games.
Should I fear legal actions against me? xD

champ.7021:

Nice one Erick. But you are forgetting one thing, those games are in the minority because Vayne has never heard of them so he assumes they dont really exist.

My bad, next time I will pay more attention xD

Vayne.8563:

It’s a different market because when Guild Wars 1 came out, IE when it made most of its sales and money, there were NO free to play MMOs. How can you say that’s not a different Market. Do you know how old Guild Wars 1 was when Rift released? SWToR? It was already pretty much dead by then, certainly by comparison. Far fewer people playing it. It’s heyday had nothing but MMOs with monthly fees.

But today you have DDO, AoC, TSW, SWToR, Lotro, Star Trek, Champions Online, Allods, Perfect World, hell so many free to play MMOs that didn’t exist when Guild Wars 1 made a name for itself.

How can you possibly compare a market that had no competition at all to a market that has tons of competition. At the time, Guild Wars 2 was the only fantasy multiplayer game without a monthly fee.

Let’s play a game, everytime someone give false informations one of the people in this thread point out the falsity.
I’ll start.
The evidence gives the lie to Vayne:
Flyff, Scions of Fate, Knight Online, Anarchy Online, Ragnarok Online, Mabinogi, Silkroad Online, Cabal Online.

Inb4: not all of them are totally free, well even GW1 and 2 are not totally free indeed they are not f2p but b2p.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1mxnku/why_do_so_many_people_think_the_frostgorge_champ/
+113 points on reddit? O_O
And I thought that that was the fanboys realm, I’m quite shocked °-°

7 but I stopped playing all of them for now so I can spend more time studing instead of chasing carrots.

Daywolf.2630:

Well yeah, it’s mostly useless.
The first mmo I started crafting in, I bought a weapon (an axe) and some carpenter crafting tools (hammers, saws, nails etc)… zip

UO ç_ç

Knote.2904:

… “grind candy corn for lives to do Clocktower!” or “Now Mad King is a giant boss for everyone to zerg in Queensdale ENJOY!”, with silly achievements everywhere, GAH…

champ.7021:

KingClash.3186:

Saw this in a thread awhile back.

+a bazillion
good job to whoever made that

I made it and I’m proud of it, but remember that posting it in a thread can lead to infraction/thread closure/thread deletion, so if you can, please, try to refrain from posting it too often xD

eisberg.2379:

zip

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/13tuac/im_the_studio_design_director_on_guild_wars_2_ama/c7762pk

and this is a post that Mike-OBrien suggested to read to understand why there is no gear treadmill:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/What-is-a-Gear-Treadmill/first

To sum it up:
If you can’t reach your carrot or can’t plan when you will reach it, it’s a gear treadmill.
If you can reach your carrot and then we give you a new carrot to chase, well that’s not a treadmill.

Not sure if he was serious or just trolling. :|

I like Scarlet, imo she is funny
I also like her character artwork, but her ingame model is pretty ugly :S
(even the 3D Cathie pales against her own concept art .-.)

Thank you for all the answers :*
And…

Maybe around ~50 hours
Mmmm…they could intoruce a system that guarantee ascended pieces for a second completion on characters that already has 100%, this would encourage people to spread again on all maps and instead of losing money crafting they will gain money to invest in the crafting for the remaining equip pieces.
Mumble, but this would be a bit exhausting for people who never got the first 100%…
but if we introduce a reward for the first completion we need to retroactively give something to people who already got the been there, done that… and this is not in the interest of anet.
How could this be managed? Any suggestion?

… again, can you think of a solution about this?

Dear Tora-kun

01. Apparently, for a lot of people anything besides sitting in LA and posting in map chat is considered a grind. The people are just being dramatic. many exaggerations .
Gw2 is not L T W ( Log in TO win ).
misinterpretation

02. 300 replies favorable to ascendend. I love ascendend. The people that are happy are busy playing and not complaining on the forums. Please stop flooding forum with complains!
300 replies pro… false (check page 23)

03. Game Statistics was very effective in the past ! Forum was not the reason! (tn: to obtain a change inside the game)
proof? And even if was true, is this a reason to stop expressing dissent?

04. Becouse complains flood the forum !
I m in forum to be informed about the game . Only for knowledge. But i see only complains.
complaining

05. All game forums are full of negativity, because the people having fun ( 90% ) are playing.
complaining

06. You need to do dungeons, world events, jumping puzzles, WvW, open world exploring to find chests, mini-dungeons, and crafting to get top tier gear…
if you find none of those things engaging and fun content then why in the world are you playing the game?
intentionally missing the point

07. disagree with you = troll?
defending yourself

08. Stop Crying Your Heart Out ( Oasis )
complaining

09. every morning same guys flooding this post. can any moderator close it?
complaining

10. Casual elitist are ruining this game.
complaining

11. causal eletists want a game L to W ( Log in To Win ).
complaining

12.Vayne.8563, Xcom.1926, xephire.8324, Erick Alastor.3917,
Same guys, all days… Stop flood please.
complaining

Happy to let you know that I posted as much as you did in this thread.
So I should tell you to stop flooding too
Plus even you still haven’t done it I’m sure you are able to share nice ideas with the community, if you feel in the right mood join our discussion without complaining about the “complainers” and give us some constructive feedback

Astralporing.1957:

Erick Alastor.3917:

Justdeifyme.9387:

I’m doing map completion with every character anyways because it’s a lot of fun for me, even after the 100th time. But yeah, I’d welcome a bit more of a final reward than just a Gift of Exploration and a Title.

And what’s the average time to complete it knowing where to go?

Impossible to calculate, because it all hinges on WvW. You could get unlucky with your side not being able to take that one keep where the last poi is for months.

True, this could also be a problem, mh…

Maybe around ~50 hours
Mmmm…they could intoruce a system that guarantee ascended pieces for a second completion on characters that already has 100%, this would encourage people to spread again on all maps and instead of losing money crafting they will gain money to invest in the crafting for the remaining equip pieces.
Mumble, but this would be a bit exhausting for people who never got the first 100%…
but if we introduce a reward for the first completion we need to retroactively give something to people who already got the been there, done that… and this is not in the interest of anet.
How could this be managed? Any suggestion?

Justdeifyme.9387:

I’m doing map completion with every character anyways because it’s a lot of fun for me, even after the 100th time. But yeah, I’d welcome a bit more of a final reward than just a Gift of Exploration and a Title.

And what’s the average time to complete it knowing where to go?