Guild Wars 2

ArenaNet, congratulations on making a terrific game. It is so engaging that people have nothing better to do than argue in post after post about the same WvW matchup topics…while at WORK!

Zikory.6871:

You must be new here. Welcome to the 2v1, PvD, You’re stacked->Nuh uh, zoom hacker, </3 thread. AKA tier 1 thread.

Yeah but why? It makes no sense. Why don’t these people play games and let the scores do the talking?

Holy mother of all that is good and holy! Shut up! You guys are all insane, by Einstein’s definition. Nobody has said anything new in 8 pages (that’s 400 posts), and yet it keeps going. How is that possible?!?!?!?!?!? Who cares about whose coverage in each time slot is superior. Play the game and share your battle stories, let’s put some real content in this thread!

Angel.6085:

Rumored that they’re qt

This can’t be true! Rekz gave us such a hard time when we were matched with them. On second thought, maybe they came here to get a taste of T1 without the T1 queues, and they’ll be back to Ebay soon enough.

Personally, no I’m not enjoying myself. The last 4 pages have been 95% “coverage this”, “coverage that”, with a “you need ACs to win but you still lose” thrown in now and then. I don’t understand how even that kind of discussion is any fun for them given that it’s the same conversations week after week.

I’m curious why so few people in T1 have their server name in their signature. Sometimes the conversation and server bashing is a little difficult to follow for an outsider.

Sorry guys, I don’t think ANet is going to split PvP and PvE traits and skills just to satisfy 10% (at most) of the top players. Besides even if they did top level players are so fickle they’d just find something else to complain about. Remember all the RNG talk during BWEs? It might be the case that GW2 is just not gonna meet your needs for balance and skill comparison. Meanwhile the rest of us scrubs are still having fun.

I could swear I read this entire conversation on one of last week’s T1 threads. Right?

Jeez, get Maguuma in a favorable matchup and the forum trolls disappear. Guess they’re only poor-weather trollers.

jportell.2197:

So you used a video in which a condition build couldn’t kill an anti condition build. You could also not kill the necro. It was a zero sum game. So a condi build couldn’t kill an AR engi but the engi wasn’t roflstomping through the necro either. Hence a balanced fight which requires an outside force to end it which is EXACTLY what would happen in tournaments.

If neither side can kill the other, that seems pretty balanced to me.

ronpierce.2760:

Okay, I’m sick of you. Lets duel later, both my necro and my engi, I’ll prove it to you so you can stop pretending to be an annoying kitten.

FRAPS it please!

Zelulose.8695:

By time that skill is finished the engineer has already healed it up with the med kit. You forget that vs power builds there is no reason to stay at 25% hp.

At which point the CCs work again.

ronpierce.2760:

A. A lot of points are big enough to stay on point and kite them.
B. Easy disengages make classes that can’t disengage so easy a liability because a death = 5 points. (Which adds up).

Okay thanks.

google.3709:

lol no one has called out ‘em legendary 87 dmg bleeds lol… what kind of full condi necro is that ?? no dhummfire ? Terror ? he didn’t even try to use doom LOL

sorry About The echo BUT!!.. Terrible staged fight :/

I thought about it but since I’m use to WvW ticks, I wasn’t sure whether 87 was a big or small number in PvP.

ronpierce.2760:

I don’t care about the damage, I just don’t like how its immunity to snares, chill, immobilize, AND FEAR. Try playing a DAGGER Necro (hint: not conditions) against AR.

I’m sure this was explained in the previous several pages, but I missed it. Why does a power necro need to be able to CC an engineer at 25% health in sPvP? Either the engineer runs away and you cap the point, or the engineer stays and you kill him. What am I missing?

Matchup threads suck. It’s the same stuff over and over, every week. Why do I keep coming back?

I’m gonna stop worry about this thread now. AR is a good response to full-condi specs, and it really takes a lot of effort on the non-engi to win the fight. Or a build that isn’t full-condi. Or a team that can bring in some direct-damage help. Maybe ANet likes a meta where full-condi builds are not king of the hill. Maybe not. I guess we’ll see with upcoming patch changes.

Good luck to you all out there. Here’s hoping the meta tips in your favor.

Well I think it’s an important point. If the two builds counter eachother, or if the engineer is so specialized in the AR build that he cannot kill the necro, then it’s a stalemate and nobody wins. That’s pretty balanced.

He shows his spec toward the end. He’s 0/0/30/30/10, heavily bunkered.

ronpierce.2760:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nn0lPesyak

2.5 hours played on an Engi TOTAL, can make a build impossible to kill for a condi necro. That’s not esport, fans.

I’ll tell you what, I asked for a video, and here it is. Eye, opening! Why wasn’t the necro taking any damage?

Now I will agree with my fellow posters that this video shows the extreme of AR, and I’m sure that’s intentional. I’m guessing a legitimate fight would go much differently, so you can’t ask ANet to base balance decisions on fake fights. But to give credit where it is due, your video does show a theoretical scenario where the engineer is unkillable by a full condition necro.

Vespirisa.1497:

I don’t get DB in their BL. We are trying to flip BG’s WPed keep to make it easy for both us during SEA. DB just kept hitting us at hills(5 times I think). So we took your garrison.

Though many of our commanders are really awesome, you have to understand that DB’s strategy typically rests upon having the ability to control an entire map (EB excluded, that’s a different beast). When we have superior numbers, we can do that. When we have inferior numbers, we just defend. When we are severly outnumbered, we PvE (j/k). In other words, we rarely encounter a scenario whereby we can utilize the force of another server to benefit us. In T1, you guys encounter queues a majority of the time, so you have adapted your strategy accordingly.

Oh and one last thing. Once you get to T2 and below, all the other servers pick on you for using map strategy instead of simply participating in open-field fights. It’s almost to the point where we have to give up map control just so that we don’t get trolled in the forums.

Gellor.6497:

kitten I’m in Hawaii and this is actually a match that I wanted to be apart of….. kitten you Anet, couldn’t have waited one week

GL this week then DB, BG, SoR!

Hi to SONG and TSYM from DB

Dude, seriously get off the computer and enjoy Hawaii. That’s just dumb.

Wait is this the matchup thread?

Oh. Well I guess I’m going to get even more intimately familiar with the exits from citadel this week. At least I won’t have to wade through all the “DB has no skills” and “DB never roams” and “DB always runs from even fights” threads. I hope, anyway.

Norn! My engi looks intimidating

darkchicken.8692:

Eviator.9746:

jportell.2197:

Why would I take all those elixirs and not take HGH? Asinine imo. Plus you have no weapon skills aside from pistol and shield….

Clearly all you need are 3 damage-dealing weapon skills, plus acidic elixirs.

Did you notice he took kit refinement, but has no kits? No, this guy is trolling the AR haters

he did take a kit, the med kit. With kit refinement it does Magnetic Aura which give projectiles reflection

I was pwned.

jportell.2197:

^ Please show us how you lost a fight to an engi specifically because of this trait.

I’d prefer a video from the engineer’s perspective. That’d be more impactful, I think.

Velron.3729:

Blah blah. How about you people stop throwing out random crap and hop on a builder and make the OP build you’re talking about for us and post up the link. Include the kits.utilities as well.

And the video. That’s what this thread is really lacking.

Actually Grackle managed to bump this thread. It was about to go off page 1. Well done Grackle :P

Shads.9468:

if we keep this internal conversation up, people will start to notice. I propose we pretend to ignore each other and go about our business.

You’re trying too hard, bro. It’s starting to get sad.

jportell.2197:

Why would I take all those elixirs and not take HGH? Asinine imo. Plus you have no weapon skills aside from pistol and shield….

Clearly all you need are 3 damage-dealing weapon skills, plus acidic elixirs.

Did you notice he took kit refinement, but has no kits? No, this guy is trolling the AR haters

zastari.1730:

This week tally of 1v1’s I had a bunch of wins 0 losses and 1 stalemate with a d/p thief with a worthless troll build that couldn’t kill a rabbit.

Offer still stands @ 20G for anyone who beats me 1v1 Best Of 5. No surprise that 0 people from Dragonbrand have made an attempt on this offer yet!

I dueled you twice! Asura engineer a couple days ago who you soundly trounced. Granted I didn’t know it was you at the time…

FYI you yourself called your build “broken OP”. You may have the skills to pay the bills, but a great build helps a lot.

I’ve been running a 20/20/30/0/0 since the patch and imho it’s broken OP.

ronpierce.2760:

Eviator.9746:

ronpierce.2760:

Eviator.9746:

The last several posts have just been theorycrafting. Video or it didn’t happen.

I’ve been pvping for quite a while, I don’t need a video to show you what easily happens all the time… If this trait “never. not once” never saves you all, you’re doing something HORRIBLY wrong. Are you sitting at 30% letting them stack condies?

Like I’ve said before I don’t have an opinion one way or another whether it’s OP at high levels of play. But you would sure be able to make your point much better if you had video, instead of just one-sided logic.

It doesn’t take rocket science or a how to to understand how crippling an enemy that has to be in melee range to attack and being immune to CCs while having perma vigor and swiftness makes for a one sided fight. I mean… hell, just do the math…

It’s so obviously OP. That’s why it’s been in the game for nearly a year now, more if you count BWE.

ronpierce.2760:

Eviator.9746:

The last several posts have just been theorycrafting. Video or it didn’t happen.

I’ve been pvping for quite a while, I don’t need a video to show you what easily happens all the time… If this trait “never. not once” never saves you all, you’re doing something HORRIBLY wrong. Are you sitting at 30% letting them stack condies?

Like I’ve said before I don’t have an opinion one way or another whether it’s OP at high levels of play. But you would sure be able to make your point much better if you had video, instead of just one-sided, “I know because I’m awesome and everyone should believe me” logic.

saiyr.3071:

That seems like satire to me, but you’re missing the YB signatures at the bottom of some of the complaint posts vOv

Here’s one. Guess he was YB, not mag. The other was a mag ranger who I /saluted and decided not to stomp.

There was another who was at the tail of the 15-man group taking DB Bay, but he was AFK so I can’t count it.

In the last hour on DBBL I have intentionally solo fought a group of four mags taking camps twice. I lost but I fought. I have also while solo fought and beat two other mag solo roamers.

I think the problem here is that those mags who are active on the forums never solo roam, and they are upset that they cannot kill solo roamers in their 4-man groups because the solo roamers don’t engage. In fact the general sentiment seems to be anger due to not ever having a fight in which they do not have overwhelming odds. What’s up with that?

The last several posts have just been theorycrafting. Video or it didn’t happen.

zastari.1730:

I’ll take any T2 server over Dragonbrand next week. At least FA and TC aren’t complete garbage and have a roaming population that’s larger than 0 people. The only saving grace DB has is [NS]. Other than that it’s a bunch of terrible zerglings that run when the fight is 5v10 and chase 50v5 for 10 minutes straight.

Man I had respect for you after our duel. Now it’s back to trash talk.

Zelulose.8695:

Oh I have. You should mess around with it till you get it right. XD

Alas my skill is my limitation. I would love to see some videos of you in your AR engineer rolling over condi builds. It would open up a lot of eyes in this thread.

Zelulose.8695:

@Manuhell.2759 Engineers have alot of traits for protection and one is in the same trait line a AR. Furthermore, simply by choosing Automatic response, you get transmute which has an 8% chance to convert conditions into boons, and hidden flask (elixer b) for extra retaliation. The Elixir gun provides a condition removing, regenerating light field, retaliation from the combo field, poison, bleeding, and weakness. and regen from the tool tip just by choosing the elixir gun alone. You have two utilities to chose from now and any weapon you want.
Essentially now you have protection, weakness, retaliation, a light field (to heal, grant more retaliation, and remove conditions), poison, and bleeding. And you haven’t even spent 40 trait points, chosen 2 utilities weapons, sigils, armor, runes, or an amulet.

(if you need more defense look at the rune of earth/grove)

You are theorycrafting. I think you need to play it.

Pyriall.5027:

Is there a visual cue for when AR kicks in?

The only way I know to tell is that a skill that should apply conditions simply doesn’t.

Zelulose.8695:

I watched it. However, you posted a video without any condition stripping kits or utilities. The utilities you had don’t work to strip conditions. Also, the fact that you could stay alive that long without condition removal besides AR is slightly ridiculous. Lastly, you could have have just let yourself lose. But it is nice to see a video that targets AR.

Careful, you are helping make others’ point. I interpret this as saying that I could have made my build even more specialized by gimping my other utilities just so I counter condi builds.

FYI I didn’t record this fight because of the AR discussion. This guy was kicking everyone’s butt and I wanted to duel him to get a better idea of how his build worked. I didn’t even consider the impact AR had on the fight until I read this thread. Also, this was the second of two duels with him. In the first duel, which I failed to record, I was downed in 15 seconds.

I would like to see a video that demonstrates in a real fight why AR counters condi builds. Perhaps at the highest levels it does, I don’t know. At my level skill still trumps build.

Since when do we shame guilds in fair fight GvG results? I thought that was one of those unspoken rules of GW2 forum sportsmanship.

Here is my promised AR video. My opponent was far more skilled than me and I made many mistakes. Please don’t judge me I know I’m a noob. But the point of this video is to demonstrate how the Automated Response grandmaster trait works from the Engineer’s perspective, how it really helped me during one phase of the fight, and one way it may be overcome.

http://youtu.be/JBVT812XMWs

Elixir P – Gives you vigor, your next 3 attacks apply poison and torment. Toss Elixir P dazes enemies for 1/2 second, but makes you jump back 300 units.

I have a video from an engineer’s perspective using AR against a condition mesmer (WvW). Due to a disparity in skill level, he trounced me rather easily. However the fight lasted at least twice as long as it would have, thanks to AR. I believe I eventually went down because I had condition overload with the help of a little bit of direct damage.

I’m not claiming OP or balanced, but I plan to edit the video and share it to help educate both sides of the argument.

saiyr.3071:

Eviator.9746:

saiyr.3071:

I like how you left in the bottom line

Wasn’t an accident

Oh I know. DB does it too, just most people don’t bother to post about it vOv

And neither did I. I posted about the truly impressive numbers Mag could field during EU primetime.

saiyr.3071:

I like how you left in the bottom line

Wasn’t an accident

Truly impressive numbers from Mag during EU primetime. All our fully upgrade keeps, plus seige gone in a matter of 10 minutes. This screenshot only shows about half of your zerg.

I think DB could stand to use some serious guild and PUG initiatives to improve open field fighting. JQ/BG/SoR showed us some good stuff. And Mag/Ebay have shown us some stuff too. The only other servers within 4 ranks are TC and FA, and I contend they are just as bad as us in the open field, so we have nothing to learn from them.

If Agg is actually considering coming back to DB, even for just a little time, I think it would be really cool if they could help shape that initiative.

deathTouch.9706:

That YB guy who ran down the hill must be a very recent server transfer to YB. I’m sure he’s learned by now though.

Or here’s another possibility: He was the sacrificial lamb that allowed the rest of the group to get away in peace. Personally I’d love to see WvW using more diversionary tactics like this. Imagine while your group focused this guy the the rest of their zerg veiled and flanked you. That would have been awesome!

Oh please can we all stop with the coverage/population discussion now before it starts up again. We’ve gone through it with every server and every matchup, and we all know it.

I’ll be honest I’m getting a little disappointed by the WvW during EU primetime/early NA, when I can play. DB loses a lot of ground to bigger numbers (yes I know the reverse happens when DB SEA comes on). That’s not really a problem in itself. But during this time, DB seems to be content just flipping points instead of actually fighting the enemy. Is it just because I spend most of my time on the BLs and I need to go to EB? Or is it just the strategy we developed of fighting the path of least resistance?