Guild Wars 2

BAITness.1083:

Edit: Throwing my hat in for DragonWagon. Has a much better ring to it.

I’m for Dwagonband

kfarb.6732:

I hope DB can sort out their internal troubles. I want them to stay well above us in ranking so long as NNK o’clock is a thing.

A ha ha hehehehe. This is psycological warfare doing its thing. See a lot of the standard (non SEA) WvW guilds are taking it easy this week. Not saying they’re taking it off, just taking it easy. The pugs may be coming out in force, which is why it seems more chaotic. I can assure you there are no “internal troubles”.

It’s interesting to see what this week is doing to the Mag and SBI state of mind. Small victories are meaningful to you, as they should be because most of everything you try to do is an uphill battle. I think DB is secure enough in it’s WvW populaton imbalance that your small victories are little more than an opportunity for DB to gain more gold, karma, and badges. I do feel bad for you, but I still like the mixup with the new matchup system.

It is a fact that my small guild transferred to DB (during the free transfer period) in large part because of the cool name.

My goodness, yet another matchup full of DB hate. I guess everyone is jumping on the “hate DB” bandwagon.

The ultimate incentive is winning! That’s why stacking works. I’m curious what other games have done to fight a stacking issue in Realm vs. Realm.

fritanga.1623:

good luck finding a game without that.

As strange as it sounds, I wouldn’t actually replace that time with games. :shock and awe ensues:

EnRohbi.2187:

The trick is quitting the forum.

Things are much more pleasant in game.

That is the trick, isn’t it. I like being engaged with the community, but I’m starting to see how miguided that is.

I’m actually considering quitting the game due to players’ incessant whinning. I’m getting too old for that garbage.

Jski.6180:

Its not truly random though the rank do factor in and i imagine how well or how bad some one won or lost effect the next world they fight. So we will see world that where dominating at there level start to fight other worlds who where dominating at other levels. If it works out right the worlds who have a death hold over 1 to 2 other worlds will faces other worlds doing the same thing.

Surely! But see if you predict a matchup will be DB/Mag/SBI, but due to last minute heroics the ratings change just enough to mix that up and the matchup actually ends up being FA/Mag/Ebay, then the predictions were all for nothing. That’s all I’m saying.

They can probably announce the random numbers that will be used, and that would allow sites like millenium to calculate the upcoming match based upon the predicted rating. But even that wouldn’t be guaranteed because a minor rating change in the last few ticks might tweak the matchups slightly.

It’s so funny, because most threads are actually complaining about there being too much imbalance in their matchup. ANet cannot win, it seems. Either the matchups get stale, or they are too imbalanced. I guess you can’t please everyone, but is there a way to please nearly everyone?

Oh, and the problem with your system is that the 2nd place server in each matchup is likely to lose nearly every week unless they manage to lose badly a few times in a row, or they manage to outplay their superior opponents. At least in the current system, nearly every server has a chance of being top dog in their matchup.

See, even though your idea is logical and interesting, this is why it’s so hard to come up with an optimal matchup system: someone is always getting screwed.

Pinko.2076:

If you think servers with a lower population than you are just jealous, I think you’re being ~Intellectually Dishonest~

That’s true, jealousy is only part of it. It’s also partly a culture of emo people who like to be different. And it’s partly a dislike of a system which rewards population imbalance. Either way it’s all whinning.

Pinko.2076:

Tons came up with a better idea, and you’re being silly if you are pretending you didn’t see any. I did as well but this isn’t the thread for it.

If someone dislikes the game, they can vote by not playing it.

Truth be told I didn’t follow any such threads because I believe in the system implemented and I’m not a big whiner. So I guess I’m less informed on the matter than you are. Still, if those ideas were so great, ANet would have considered them. Perhaps they only seem great on the surface.

And let’s stop the bandwagon talk before it starts up again. It makes you seem like a child who was given a smaller piece of cake. (zastari)

Pinko.2076:

It’s intellectually dishonest to say that it’s an either/or situation. The system implemented this week was a hamfisted attempt to do what players wanted. People should express outrage in hopes that it gets adjusted or changed entirely.

It’s not intellectually dishonest, because those are the only two choices we’ve been given so far.

We’ve known about this system for weeks and saw the potential of unbalanced matchups. Nobody came up with a better idea. Did you?

I’m a pragmatist by nature. DB is going to win, most likely. But look at povV’s post. How many people are just going to do something else and not put up a fight? That’s fairweather to the extreme. What if it was Mag/CD/Ebay? Mag would win, right? But I’m sure the Mag folks would like it if CD and Ebay at least tried.

The alternative is to go back to static/stable/stale tiers. It’s really hard for me to believe that anyone who is intellectually honest would prefer that.

Ugh, some of you people drive me nuts. Never happy. Go create your own game and let the rest of us enjoy this experience.

What’s annoying is the lack of fighting spirit, and the lack of foresight. This week may suck for SBI, but what about next week? Next week you could be the server with the mega-zergs. Enjoy the variety! Enjoy the experience! Learn new tactics! Just stop the QQ!

DB probably has the numbers potential to win, right? But that doesn’t mean it’s a done deal. Nor does it mean that the other servers should give up. Have some fun! It’s a game, after all. Show some fighting spirit!

Devon I’m sure you have a thick skin and don’t need a boost, but please stay the course. It’s clear to those of us who took the time to understand the new matchup system and know the issues with T9 that there is nothing wrong with the matchups.

Either we stick with the old stale system playing the same servers and the ratings never reach their true values, or we use this new system and get diverse, likely unbalanced matchups but more accurate ratings. The thing with the new matchup system is that most servers, except the T9 servers, have a chance of actually being the strong server in the matchup from week to week, which is a nice change from the old system.

Thank you TC and FA for teaching some of our more obnoxious DB folks some humility. And a very BIG thank you to TC and FA for the last couple pages of this forum topic. I’m digging the class.

Something doesn’t feel right…it’s like TC is sticking up for his little brother, DB. Certainly a welcome change from unceasing “wagonbrand” name-calling by some out there.

PredatoR.5247:

http://www.twitch.tv/aggguild/

stream of gvg we have going on with EP, will start soon.

Thanks EP!!!

Darn, got super laggy when it started.

Never having run with Agg, watching the movement, even when 1/2 of the way through the fight, is downright disturbingly scary.

PredatoR.5247:

http://www.twitch.tv/aggguild/

stream of gvg we have going on with EP, will start soon.

Thanks EP!!!

I see a bunch of other non-Agg around…I hope they respect the GvG!

Arkanfel.8403:

For my part, I haven’t been to Southsun once. I’m in WvW like 80% of the time I’m logged in, but I’m starting to ask myself why.

I’m a little concerned about your frustration with DB. In my world view gaming is optional even if I’m part of a “raiding” guild. Holding guilds and individuals to schedules and participation, though perhaps a key to ultimate success, is going to lead to drama. Let’s keep DB drama free!

I decided to go back and read the OP to see if RE’s core members would be happy on my server, DB. If this statement is accurate, we can make a proper evaluation: “we would like to find a stable, friendly, but competitive community to be a part of.”

Friendly: I think DB is pretty good. Before the pre-T2 transfers DB prided itself of being a no drama server. For the most part that is still the case, though some of the new guilds did seem to bring some attitude with them (e.g. I saw someone berate a new commander for not being able to hold our BL against a 60-man TC zerg during EU primetime, our weakest time-slot). Hopefully that kind of behavior is being corrected on our private forums without added drama.

Competitive: This could mean many different things. If we’re talking about a server among the top ranks, DB obviously fits that description. If we’re talking about a server that likes to fight against tough opponents and tough guilds, DB is pretty good but within T2 I suspect TC or FA might be better because DB has some pretty tough guilds, and TC and FA are likely to fight DB frequently going forward. If we’re talking about a server that fights its hardest no matter what, I wouldn’t say DB is cream of the crop. Just personal subjective experience, nothing definitive, and others on DB are free to disagree without argument from me.

Stable: That’s a tough one. As far as I know DB hasn’t lost any major guilds since Krew, a few months ago. And I wouldn’t say they were major numbers-wise, more like reputation. In other words, their departure didn’t seem to impact our performance very much. However as you know we did get a big influx of guilds in the last 5 weeks, and that is instability in the other direction. Given that DB’s population is now full most of the time, you wouldn’t expect DB to grow much more. As for the future, it’s tough to predict whether the “new” DB guilds will eventually tire of DB. It all depends upon whether DB is fulfilling their needs, so that’s really only predictable on an individual guild basis. Since the DB mentality is to try to foster an environment without drama, it’s logical that the DB community is unlikely to push away any guild that doesn’t cause drama, so there is an element of stability in that. But it must also be understood that DB is currently called a “bandwagon” server for a reason: we have some new guilds that haven’t decided DB is their permanent home yet. So there’s always a chance that if DB starts to lose a guild here or there and sinks in the ratings, or the friendly environment changes, other large guilds might abandon ship, thus affecting stability. Still I don’t think this would be different on any other server.

Note to people who read this far: I did not specify any servers which RE should definitely not move to. I only wrote about that which I am reasonably authoritative.

Hickeroar.9734:

It wasn’t meant to be negative at all. It’s happened to TC several times, and we always bounce back. The first two weeks you guys were here, many of our guilds took a two week haitus due to scheduling issues, burnout, etc. The fairweathers just stopped showing up because our score didn’t look “competitive” enough. Morale drooped for those who didn’t know that people really just needed a break for a couple weeks.

It’s nothing to be ashamed of, or scared of. It just happens.

The way I see it, a server has a standard level of morale, burnout, and fairweathers. In the first two weeks, the levels were high/low/high which means good turnout. I think the levels have returned back to normal, as opposed to your suggestion, which that those levels are low/high/low.

Hickeroar.9734:

Rawr.5930:

3 weeks ago DB had MASSIVE participation, why that’s changed only you guys can answer.

I think it boils down to three basic things:

A) Morale
B) Burnout
C) Fairweathers

Those are some pretty generic reasons that point to somewhat of a negative attitude. I tend to think the reasons are less dramatic. For example the push into T2 motivated a lot of people to play more and put in longer hours. After that initial rush, the participation dropped back down to what you might call “normal”. That is people return to their normal schedule, the status quo, because the excitement of moving up to T2 has worn off, and many of us still have lives outside of gaming that we were perhaps neglecting those first couple weeks in T2.

Here’s my take: Rethesis, feel free to come to DB. While on DB, please farm loot bags from our opponents, but save some of that loot money in case you want to transfer again. If you decide to do so, core DB will wish you well. Of course we prefer the “DB spirit”, which means no intraserver trash talk and other such drama.

Well I’m going to have to retract what I said above and admit I was mistaken. I just did a test with 75% crit from gear and traits (Ranger runes, Rampager’s Amulet, Accuracy sigil, 30 in firearms). With fury that’s 95% crit before Scope and before Target the Weak.

In my tests I booned fury with elixir B, donned the flamethrower, and attacked the golem while standing still for three flame bursts (the golem dropped below 50% health mid-way through the fourth flame burst triggering Target the Weak). In those first 3 flame bursts, if scope was additive I should have had 105% crit. If scope was multiplicative to the base crit, I should have had a little over 102% crit. If scope didn’t work as advertised, I’d have 95% crit.

The results were clear: there were some non-crits. Now I’m back on the “Scope doesn’t work” bandwagon.

Oh, if you are referring to one on a BL, then never mind. I was referring to golems in EB.

NickDollahZ.5348:

Easy to test that it isnt working, but lucky enough I kept my gear from last time i tested it. Very simple to test but you need a large sample size. Although with 90%+ critical chance the non crits will proc very rarely.

I will have to record a video for the record. What most people forget is the most you can take is 14 pts in firearms or u will target the weak and get 100% crit rate. Best way to test is with precision major stat gear so u dont need the points into firearms.

I really want to see others’ methodology and results. I felt my experiment was pretty definitive and demonstrates scope does indeed work, so I’d like to see evidence to the contrary.

Niim.9260:

I saw this in another thread:

Mayoken.9851:

Right now we qeue 2-3 maps a night on average and qeue 3 maps during NA prime on the weekends, so there is space for Rethesis to que up that 4th map.

Is this true? FA is que’ing at the best of times 1 map a night with only 2 map’s getting que’d on reset night and weekend, we might get 3 maps on reset night, but only for a very small window of time. What is TC’s map ques like? For NA time prime.

If true TC may actually be top dog when the new matchup system is in place. Good luck TC!

Faux Sheaux.6179:

So says the DB hivemind. So say we all.

You seem authoritative on the matter. Mmmhmmmmmm.

fade.8603:

If you really want to join DB, you need to speak to their community in charge. Apparently, some wanted you to go while others don’t.

Complete misinformation. There is no “community in charge”. Guilds are free to come and go as they please with no drama. Please do not speak about that which you have no understanding. The DB core is happy in whatever tier is appropriate for its coverage and population.

DB is perceived as the “flavor of the month”, and has achieved some success as a result. There is factual basis for this, but it doesn’t mean DB is deserving of the hate that you see all throughout the WvW forums. Those who hate on DB because of their transfers and success probably need to do some soul searching. Some hate because of envy, and some hate because it’s what the cool kids do.

This is effectively the Tankcat/Medicat build. I love it in WvW (I don’t PvP much).

Lanimal.6541:

Your SEA should talk to WM about meta tactics, even though your SEA might have more numbers they still have a lot to learn about map hopping or limiting map hopping (in your case) as well as locking down DBBL. Its much easier to outmobilize your zergs than it was WM.

To be fair, DB’s SEA hasn’t had hardly any opposition, in this tier or lower tiers, to help them fine-tune their meta.

Usagi.4835:

We’ve already sacrified two of your omega golems, DB. There was another one that we were about to liberate then you had it waypointed.

I’m sure it felt good to take out those golems, but you should know that those golems were successful in taking many towers and keeps in their time, so their purpose was served.

Anymras.5729:

Did that 10,000 shot test ever get finished, or did it get abandoned due to holy kitten so much time expenditure why are we the ones doing this shouldn’t Anet test their own kitten godkitten ?

I didn’t finish that test. When I started it I started with the assumption that it wasn’t working because 4% base plus 10% scope should be 14% crit chance. However someone else came up with a different theory: scope is 10% multiplicative with non-buffed crit chance, not additive. If that is true, my initial 10,000 shot test would not be able to prove or disprove that.

So I did a high-crit 2000-hit test instead. My results verified “someone else’s” theory. That is to say, with 70% crit chance + 20% from fury + (10% * 70% = 7%) scope, I was getting 97% crit chance. Since my initial intention was to prove to ANet that scope didn’t work at all, having verified scope is actually working in this alternate way, I decided it wasn’t worth my time to pursue a 10,000-hit high-crit test.

Some people doubt the results believing it’s within the margin of error. They say that others have performed tests with 91% crit rate before scope, and still got non-crits. I haven’t seen any of those tests, so I do not believe them without evidence. But I didn’t feel like starting a fight, so I let it go.

I don’t think tier stability is that important of a factor anymore. With the the new matchup algorithms, it will be pretty rare when all three servers from the same tier will be playing each other.

If you thrive in an environment where a bunch of your potential opponents hate you for no good reason (currently JQ, SoR, BG, TC, FA, and Mag), you can come to DB. [RE] (Red Essence) already exists here, though, so there may be some confusion. On the plus side, DB itself is pretty drama free.

Scope may work, just not how you think. Read earlier posts in this thread.

Shortly after TC took FA’s keep on EB, we paid FA’s spawn a visit. That wasn’t cool, and I helped convince our commander to leave this area. Of course, the 60-man TC zerg wiped us as we tried to leave, so we got our come-up-ins.

Tkitten TC zerg is big enough to take most of the map, so we’re a little lucky that we have the siege bug.

The anti-DB sentiment seems high thanks to a few DB chest thumpers and a few DB QQers. It’s too bad some people take those few bad apples to make it seem like the entirety of DB is evil. That sentiment seems to be translating to the battlefield, at least a little bit. Things will mix up when the matchups change, so hopefully some of that unearned animosity goes away. Of course, those that perpetuate that animosity have to gain some perspective too.

You all have to admit, if nothing else DB is getting 2v1’d in the forums. Maybe some DB individuals deserve it, but surely not the whole server!

Some DB folks sure do give us a bad name. That kind of whinning, even if it’s true, is sure to make TC and FA want to pick on us.

DB is pulling record numbers because we’re different from every other server out there. We hate PvE, never burn out, we never celebrate holidays, we never have school or work, and we have a constant influx of new guilds. Also DB and DB are going to 2v1 both TC and FA simultaneously. TC and FA, you have no chance this week, just like you had no chance any of the previous weeks we were matched up.

Oh wait…

Unintended consequences. Server A’s giant blob moves to map X. Server B (your server) is on map Y with a 30 minute cooldown and cannot react, thus Server A steamrolls map X with no resistance anyway.

Good luck, have fun. Posting just to make this easier to follow, but also to say, I really don’t want to read a bunch of posts about cookies, quaggans, and dolyaks again. My time is precious and those topics are dumb.

I think this is a great idea. Glicko is used in a lot of rating systems, including some chess rating systems, and that is a great system for accurate ability estimation and matchups. But chess ratings are based upon a very large player base, so it’s nice to see ANet doing something a little different. Thanks for mixing things up ANet.

I think whoever said DB needs more EU is right, not necessarily NA. I play in the late morning/early afternoons server time, and that’s when we’re the weakest; that’s when we lose everything SEA gained. I assumed that was NA time because I live in North America, but that is a pretty shallow deduction.

Hadan.2841:

6pm est. your NA should be on. but hey 1 more guild wont hurt!

Maybe that’s the point. What if they ARE on right now?