Guild Wars 2

I disagree.

Many immunities, like guardian’s Renewed Focus, are fine. They have drawbacks to balance the full immunity, such as not being able to do anything besides move while the ability is active/channeling. Most also prevent you from holding a node in conquest. They typically have longer cooldowns and if you don’t time their use well, they’re not all that effective.

The problematic immunities fall into two categories. First, the ones which no drawbacks. Players can keep attacking while under immunity and they can’t be stopped from doing it. Second is Rune of Vampirism because it gives extra automatic immunity to high damage builds.

@OP:

This is a beta test! It’s not uncommon to err on the side of over-buffing abilities during design testing. Developers and players can get an idea of what works well mechanically. Then things are pulled into line. If you try to balance too soon and end up undershooting then it’s hard to tell what doesn’t work mechanically and what just needs higher numbers. It’s easier to build it up and then shave away than try and add to it piecemeal. No need to get worked up about it; just report the issues.

Specifically:

• Herald only shows up in two of your complaints.
• #1 All revenant teleports need a target to do that teleporting. Shiro is really good at sticking to a target by design. If it’s too good with chaining it, that can be tweaked with energy costs.
• #3 The Glint heal is a problem mostly because it doesn’t have an obvious animation or we’re just not used to it yet. It’s identical in functionality to Defiant Stance on warrior, except it’s instant and lasts an extra second. It’s easy to tweak those.
• #4 Revenant hammer is intended to be deadly at long range. It forces enemies to close the gap on the Revenant. Revenant has few ways to keep enemies at a distance. Would you leave a full zerker longbow ranger at 1200+ to continually pelt you?
• #6 I’ll agree that the Glint legend is too strong currently. ANet can tweak that by increasing upkeep costs on the facets so that you can’t have so many continually active.

Here are some more fundamental questions:

• Should Revenant have Weapon Swap? Originally it didn’t; weapon swap was added after the revenant trial weekend. However, the profession was very incomplete at that time and the abilities were under-tuned. Now that the abilities are more reasonable, is weapon swap adding too much versatility on top of the legend swap? You can go from a heavy ranged damage setup (hammer) to a melee sustain (staff) or melee damage (sword) setup if you can’t keep players at range. The fact that each weapon set had strengths and weaknesses is blurred.
• How should Revenant Heals be Balanced? Each legend has its down heal. Each of those heals is balanced numbers-wise with all other heals in the game (amount healed, cooldown, additional effects). However, because revenants can cast two of these heals, they have effectively double the healing capacity of every other profession.

Hatter.8159:

The door breakers just melt and fall over (In fact leaving just one guy to defend can essentially make the door breaking process non-achievable)

In the first few stronghold betas, the doorbreakers were much hardier. That lead to a 5 DB rush being the most efficient strategy and the game mode became a PvE race. The current version is much better. They can be kept alive against one defender, but they need to be escorted.

A big problem is that Archers are useless right now. Archers are supposed to be the sturdier option, but slower at killing gates, compared to doorbreakers. However, they die just as quickly and “squirrel” far too much. As a result it’s difficult to break a defensive opponent.

Also, defending nets enough points from kills and from a few hero summons in order to win on points. No need to go offense.

nearlight.3064:

In general yeah, I didn’t really like what I saw of dragonhunter. It sounds like it should be able to give a long range option to the medi guard playstyle, but its just not really implemented well.

Dragonhunter has core design issues, which is it’s problem. It’s got a longbow, whose abilities favor ranged combat. But two of the virtues (justice and resolve) favor melee combat. Then you have traps which don’t favor ranged at all. In addition, the DH virtues don’t work well with many of the existing traits for virtues.

I’d rank it along with tempest as the worst elite spec, but tempest is only really bad because its traits offer almost nothing of value.

Don’t tell the elementalists that, they’ll riot. Tempest is just bad, though the overload concept could be salvaged.

Not surprisingly, the same developer was the lead on DH and Tempest.

ANet already announced changes to DH which didn’t make it into this BWE:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Dragonhunter-Changes-for-Next-BWE/5419316

Still won’t make it that great, but at least better than not being used at all.

Berzal.7294:

Its not about ele,its about celestial.Just remove this from game>it will resolve many problems.1 year ago cele warriors was OP,now eles.Cele Revenant is more op then others.

WRONG!

Celestial amulet is fine. If it was really that broken, everyone would be using it. Instead, only the builds which can might stack or have other access to power and can crap out condis for almost no effort use it.

D I V A.6018:

Could this be the reason that many people perceive Reaper as “super tanky”? I have a very strong feeling that players, who used to focus necros first in team fights are not even aware of this.

People think reapers are tanky on maps without destructable objects. So not entirely.

Lachanche.6859:

this is a terrain inherent bug it can not be fixed without some drastic changes to the phisics engine.

Hardly. It’s pretty much the same issue as lifesteal on gate in WvW. You just need to tag objects with a “doesn’t give lifeforce” property.

Eval.2371:

Actually after doing some research its not reaper that is the problem with their sustain, it a bug being abused with life force generation and healing while in reaper shroud.

Except that only happens on maps with destructible objects. Only Khylo and Champion’s Dusk have them all over. Skyhammer has some, but it’s not played that often. Foefire has the lord gates, but you have to be near them to abuse it.

I’m sure the reaper complaints aren’t only on maps with destructible objects. But yes, that needs fix.

Changes from Last BWE

• Doorbreakers appear to have less armor and more HP, which makes condi damage less cheesy against them.
• Mist heroes deal about 10% damage to the gate each attack (for reference DBs do 25%) but attack slower than a DB.

Issues

• Archers are STILL Useless There is absolutely no point in summoning an archer. Ever. Players kill guards just as quickly. Archers do negligible damage to gates. Archers die just as quickly as Doorbreakers. But most importantly archers stop in the middle of a lane and toss arrows at random stuff. The fact that they never reach an objective for which they were designed is what will keep them from ever being useful.
• Points > Lord Kill Trying to actually kill the lord in a relatively even match-up is more likely to lose the match on points than win it on points or a lord a kill. Hero channels are more valuable for the score than for the actual hero. Killing a gate is worth much less than it needs to be. Defenders have an advantage in killing NPCs and reinforcing from their spawn. The result is that stacking defense except for running out to grab a hero will net you more points from kills than the other team gets from actually progressing toward the lord.
• Heroes still need buffed There’s no point to a hero channel other than the points or if it’s on the way and you can do it uncontested. The heroes die before they get to a get or lord more often than not, and there’s not much you can to keep them alive. Their defiant is easy to break, which stuns them for quite a while, and their elite on the lord is too easy to interrupt. The only purpose they serve is to snowball matches more. Even unhindered, the turn-around time on a hero is way too long.
• No Comeback Mechanic Heroes aren’t strong enough to serve this purpose. The extra supply from a successful defense means almost nothing; opponents have ample time to respawn and deal with the NPC wave before those NPCs can reach an inner gate.
• Stability Channel This needs to go. It’s silly how some builds can just run up, start channeling, pop stability, and there’s practically nothing that can stop them except boon strip or displace. As a guardian, I’ve literally run into a group fighting for it, used quickness and chained two stabilities and I have a hero cap in the middle of a group of people.
• Trebuchet Auto-Repair Now that enemies past the outer gate drop supply, I don’t see a reason for this.

Thread for Stronghold Feedback from BWE2 (Sept 4-6)

The points awarded for various objectives need adjusted. Killing a gate was 50 last BWE – have to check what it is now. Should be at least 100 for inner gate.

You’re ridiculous

Grymm is supposed to be unlocked via a PvP reward track once Stronghold goes live. Nika will require HoT.

But really, Stronghold will never be super competitive and the differences in the heroes other than their spells is barely noticeable. Most die before they can cast their elite anyway.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

To everyone else saying Reapers are too tanky: Perhaps, then, you might consider that the “focus the Necro first” strategy might need to be rethought when the Necro is a Reaper?

Except it’s really strong 1v1 too. Like d/d cele ele.

Banish Enchantment completely craps all over boon users like guardians and elementalists. Revenants don’t even have to do anything else. The energy cost per boon removed needs to be increased so it’s not as spammable.

Are teleport enemy skills (Revenant down state #2 and Unyielding Anguish) supposed to ignore stability? Unyielding Anguish cast twice can be used to decap a node and there’s nothing you can do to stop it.

Unrelenting Assault in a 1v1 reminds me of ranger’s Rapid Fire. It does a lot of damage and is significantly longer than a dodge, so even if you dodge it, you still get hit by a good chunk of damage. Might need to drop the number of attacks and give it bonus attacks against multiple enemies.

Glint stance animation (I think that was the one) looks nice but is way too big and flashy for PvP.

Taunt is what causes the yellow names. However, the taunt condition should only last a couple seconds at most. After that, all enemies should be red again.

I read in other threads on this forum that some spell interactions during taunt cause you to get stuck in that state, which is a bug. I don’t recall which.

The healing from Blighter’s Boon isn’t really a problem. It’s the life force generation that’s a bit too strong. Might need to test it for bugs, though.

I recall in the previous BWE, as a guardian at the start of a PvP match, I would buff my Reaper friend with Empower (12 boons) and two symbols (5 boons each) but he would have ~50% life force. He should have had ~25% based on the tooltips. Even with Gluttony, it shouldn’t be over 30%.

When you have to ban about half the builds in the game, that’s saying something…

Blighter’s Boon
Gain life force when you gain a boon. If you are in reaper’s shroud, gain health instead.

Cold Shoulder
Chill lasts longer, and chilled foes deal less damage to you.

Chilling Force
Striking a chilled foe grants might and life force.

Revenant (some parts), Reaper, and Chronomancer are all way too good right now. So don’t expect any of those to be that powerful when HoT launches or remain that way for long.

The problem is the amulet system. You can’t do anything besides full offense or heavily defensive except for celestial. And if you can’t stack might and apply conditions easily, celestial is pretty lackluster.

The issue is that a few beta builds are way too strong and crapping on everyone. Some players want somewhere that they can practice the live game. Yes, the elites from the beta will be in, but they’ll (hopefully) be a bit more balance at launch.

Unholy Sanctuary.

Moa is good enough already.

Shield #4 is a bit weak and the trait is garbage, but the shield isn’t that bad in PvP.

Also, the OP’s suggestion will never happen. Since weapons determine skills, knowing which weapons a player is using is integral to the game.

Yes, it does look at professions and tries to get a variety. However, it’s less important than other factors like rating and group size and not always possible. Engineer and Ranger are both dailies today, so expect a larger number of them.

Oh look, another GW1 nostalgia thread. You can take off the rose-colored glasses now.

I played GW1 about 5 years ago. I watched the GW1 video, but couldn’t tell what was happening besides two people slapping each other and a giant ball of text and numbers. No different than GW2, but at least with Conquest, I know who’s in the lead at any given time.

x indigo x.6981:

I really liked the idea of retaliation scaling on toughness.

Keep dreaming. This will NEVER happen. If you scale damage with defense then you make tankier builds deal comparable damage to less tanky ones. Why go less tanky then? It would lead to a huge problem in PvP/WvW.

Not all the defensive procs are hurting gameplay. You have to look at them individually.

For example, Engineer Transmute is terrible design because it can completely negate CC conditions, and you never know if it’s going to happen. However, the Elixir S proc isn’t all that bad. In elixir S, you can’t use abilities and for an opponent, it’s pretty predictable when it will happen.

Basically, if it’s predictable or won’t significantly hinder what an attacker can do, it’s not that bad. Protection procs will slow incoming damage, but it’s not going to completely ruin a burst. However, when the defensive procs provide a huge benefit with no downside, it becomes problematic. The warrior Endure Pain proc is far more frustrating because the warrior can just keep going.

Vampirism runes are a major culprit because they give professions which are supposed to have high risk for high reward much less risk. If you over-extend or don’t back out of a fight when focused, you still get saved.

There are a handful of abilities applying more stacks of burning than they probably should. Other than that, conditions are a minor issue, and that’s mostly because clearing them is random.

GrandHaven.1052:

Please explain how NECRO is part of the problem?

Cele signet necro mostly. It can might stack almost as well ad d/d ele. Combine that with decent defenses from high life force generation, good direct damage, and lots of conditions from abilities and boon convert and you have the same problems as the old cele rifle engi and current cele d/d ele.

Cut down on some might stacking or boon convert and it’s much less of an issue. All that can be done with a single trait tweak. This necro build is just overshadowed by other problems right now.

meow one twenty.4376:

If 4 Ele’s couldn’t be used in ESL on a single team then we would have never been able to definitively prove there was a problem.

If ANet couldn’t realize how broken d/d cele ele was before this rule change, then there’s no hope for PvP in this game.

Shockwave.1230:

Hmm this is a really good point. With all the power creep happening due to elite specializations these should be F2P too or else being competitive in PvP will require going through aa pay wall. That would be super lame.

They’re buffing the crap out of the elite specs so they can see how they perform. They’ll tone them down once the mechanics are working properly. It’s hard to tell what’s not working if the skills aren’t ideal and the damage is low.

Problem is that Zeal’s raw damage is only useful against braindead PvE mobs. When they actually start avoiding you in HoT, Zeal will start sucking pretty hard.

The problem with making retaliation a straight damage return is that it makes it too powerful for defensive builds. If you wanted to go that route, you would need to make it return (base + power * modifier) percent of damage received. Requiring power means you can’t be defensive and kill attackers as easily.

But that still doesn’t address the issue of how retaliation can be somewhat spammable on a guardian. With high up-time and percent damage return, there is no counter other than waiting it out. You would still need to address access to the retaliation boon.

Shield is used by bunker guardians in PvP. Outside of that, it has niche uses.

The problem is not burning damage or the might boon itself. It’s the number of burning stacks on certain skills and the number of might stacks certain builds can apply to themselves.

But we’re the friendliest MMO community around…

I check for retaliation when doing multi-hit attacks like Whirling Wrath or Flame Jet (flamethrower auto). But in general, no.

Giving Retaliation stacks is interesting, but it’s still too easy to spam and already does significant damage against certain professions like thief. In order to buff retaliation, the sources of the boon would need to be adjusted.

Whirling Wrath (Greatsword#2) does a melee range attack and sends out bolts randomly which have 600 range.

Passive Virtue of Courage is every 40 seconds, but can be affected by traits and reset by traits and Renewed Focus.

They can use /team inside a PvP match, but not /map or /say.

Bans won’t work well in GW2. Many traits or skills are integral to multiple builds in a profession and restricting it pretty much kills all reasonable builds including the ones which are too powerful. Also, unlike a MOBA, there isn’t a huge list of builds to fulfill the same role. You could strategically ban bunker build lynch pins and it completely kills an entire strategy.

Hey, let’s all have our kids sit in front of the TV and watch adults hopped up on steroids play some sport instead…

This is an elementalist (and necro) problem, not a celestial amulet problem. No other profession or even other builds in the same profession perform nearly as well with the celestial amulet.

The builds which have used celestial amulets and been “meta” all share two key capabilities:

1. Power from Traits/Abilities The power value on celestial amulet is pretty low, so unless you can dramatically increase your power, your damage isn’t that meaningful. Elementalists and signet necros do this with might stacking. Pre-patch cele rifle engineer did it with 300 power from the trait line.
2. Easy Access to Damaging Conditions In order to take full advantage of celestial, a build also needs easy and constant access to damaging conditions, especially burning. Elementalist certainly has this. Necromancer has a lot of bleed and poison and can get others through conversions. Pre-patch cele rifle engi had Incendiary Powder.

The fix is to reduce might stacking and cut down on no-effort condition application.

Just split the current amulets into multiple items and let players mix and match. It accomplishes the goal, lets ANet control stat combos (no Dire or Nomad unless they want to add it), and it’s not confusing since it’s just like the PvE/WvW stat system (but with less items).

Some builds want more than 4 stats (guardian and elementalist being the prime examples), but they don’t need them in equal amounts.

I have lots of fun playing conquest. Watching it is interesting sometimes.

The big detractor from both is the lack of competition. When playing GW2 PvP, if often feels like one person is dragging your team down than your team doing well. It’s rare to get a match between all roughly equal players, but when you do, it’s exciting and fun. The same is true for watching it. Outside of a few matches, it’s clear one team is better than the other.

d/d ele being OP is more than just burning damage. Cutting down the number of burning stacks would be a good start, but it probably needs its damage and survival examined.

Mesmer is still too good, but it’s not completely broken like it was when the patch released. The burst is still easy to pull off and it’s far too forgiving of mistakes.

Over a year ago, they were going to add perplexity runes to PvP. The PvP community said “no, it’s completely broken”. It still is to this day and thankfully it’s still not in PvP.

I like most of these. They actually interest me in trying DH.