Guild Wars 2

Bryzy.2719:

Fade.7658:

Bryzy.2719:

Why is this in the Thief forum? So you can try and rally your mates to make them shout ‘OP!! NERFFFF!!!!’

Requesting that a mod take this to the Ranger forum please

You obviously have trouble with reading comprehension. One or two people are complaining about this. The rest are holding a discussion totally different from your claims of trying to rally thieves to shout nerf or OP. (even if it were the case, Anet is not going to make changes based on forum complaints)

Go back to the ranger board yourself, where you belong.

You imply that I was referencing what is talked about in the thread. I’m actually referencing your intentions as the original poster.

If I am wrong about why you started this thread, then why post it on here instead of the Ranger forums?

Ranger board where I belong? Yes I play Ranger, but I also play an 80 Thief, Warrior and Guardian. You are not helping the stereotype that people who main a Thief have a bad attitude.

I posted it here, because many people do not read the patch notes. It was also a snarky comment referencing how people flock to a new spec because of improved mechanics, regardless of profession. I will not, however, apologize if you misread my post, and jumped to conclusions. There are so many “nerf thief” posts on this forum, that most who post here tend to either ignore questionable posts, or respond in kind.

If I mained a Ranger, I’d be posting on the ranger boards. I main a thief, so guess where I post?

You are not helping the stereotype that those that main Rangers are whiners. Again, you read what you wanted to read; an attack on Rangers getting any sort of buff, when it was furthest from the truth.

If you had bothered to even read any of my other posts in this thread, you might have concluded that my original post wasn’t as you expected.

nagymbear.5280:

Fade.7658:

nagymbear.5280:

Fade.7658:

Edit: Most thieves are still upset over losing 1200 range cluster bomb, though. Rangers that go for 1500 longbow range, will have a 600 range advantage.

As are rangers for losing range on all shortbow skills.

I can sympathize there. However, thieves are now the only class without a 1200 ranged attack (the traited 1500 steal doesn’t come close to counting). Thieves were promised a bit more mobility some time ago, but I haven’t seen enough to really counter the loss of our only 1200 range attack.

Edit: My opinion of course.

Some stange range setup across classes. Longbow is not 1200 on warrior, rifle is not 1200 on engineer, grenades can be thrown farther then any longbow can fire, or an axe or dagger can be thrown, greatsword on mesmer has 1200 range.

As for mobility, I think thieves have a few ways to get in someones face through shadowsteps and steal. Yeah the ranged options are a bit lackluster, as most of the ranged weapons seem to be for mid range. No offense but I can live with thieves not having the 1200 range option, seeing how powerful they are in melee.

I wasn’t really affected by the shortbow changes, as I run kind of a weird P/D + P/D setup. I just would like to have a decent ranged option available, since P/P is so anemic, and near worthless in any sort of WvW or PvP setting.

NemesiS.6749:

Its been going on for a while, first it was BM bunker rangers, then i read that spirits are OP and now thief crying because we got a 3 sec stealth lol

LOL, the thread in the thief forums regarding this has maybe one or two whines in it. The rest of the thread is merely mechanic discussion, specualtion and ways to counter it.

Bryzy.2719:

Why is this in the Thief forum? So you can try and rally your mates to make them shout ‘OP!! NERFFFF!!!!’

Requesting that a mod take this to the Ranger forum please

You obviously have trouble with reading comprehension. One or two people are complaining about this. The rest are holding a discussion totally different from your claims of trying to rally thieves to shout nerf or OP. (even if it were the case, Anet is not going to make changes based on forum complaints)

Go back to the ranger board yourself, where you belong.

You can overwhelm a D/P thief with conditions from time to time. It won’t kill them, but it will back them off a bit. Poisons, bleeds, torment, weakness, cripple and the occasional vulnerability can be applied fairly often, keeping them on their toes.

Boomstin.3460:

Longbow is 1200 range base. Grandmaster trait eagle eye gives 300 extra range. Remorseless trait is also a grandmaster trait so if anything you will be seeing more longbow rangers with 1200 range since most will take remorseless now.

That’s likely, but it also may depend on the venue. I think many rangers will opt to retain 1500 range in WvW.

I’d love to see Shadow Strike kind of Hybridized, in that if you aren’t in melee, you don’t get the teleport or damage, but you can still land the 2 stacks of torment.

nagymbear.5280:

Fade.7658:

Edit: Most thieves are still upset over losing 1200 range cluster bomb, though. Rangers that go for 1500 longbow range, will have a 600 range advantage.

As are rangers for losing range on all shortbow skills.

I can sympathize there. However, thieves are now the only class without a 1200 ranged attack (the traited 1500 steal doesn’t come close to counting). Thieves were promised a bit more mobility some time ago, but I haven’t seen enough to really counter the loss of our only 1200 range attack.

Edit: My opinion of course.

The way they implemented Torment for thieves initially, made me kind of sad. I can’t give up Caltrops for a 9 second torment, on a 45 second cool down. With this addition, Skale Venom could actually be used in tandem with Shadow Strike, for some nice pressure.

Shadow strike away, steal in (prepping CnD), pop Skale Venom,Sneak Attack, Shadow Strike out.

As long as you get some other conditions in, you’ll have a decent chance to keep some of those up from a removal. (sigils of doom come to mind for poison/weakness)

McWolfy.5924:

hey thieves!
i dont realy like this stealth thing, because i dont like that mechanism. but finaly we got something. but dont worry, u still have more damage and invisibility as us.
AND we need 3 trait in 2 lines to use it with full powe (or 4 in 3 lines if u use it with maul)

I think you’re going to find that any decent thief won’t have any real complaints about what rangers are getting, stealth wise. Most of the complaints will be knee-jerk reactions and from thieves that play a one trick pony spec.

Edit: Most thieves are still upset over losing 1200 range cluster bomb, though. Rangers that go for 1500 longbow range, will have a 600 range advantage.

Condition duration will increase the duration, but I’m not sure which specific duration type will also, e.g. Bleed, poison, etc. I suspect anything that increases bleed duration will increase torment, but I haven’t really tested it, as my build has the flat Condition duration increase for all conditions.

Rufy.6093:

Wow, perma stealth thiefs crying about 1 stealth for us rangers. It was an update needed for far to long.

Here’s a clue. The majority of us in this thread aren’t crying about it. We’re speculating on how the mechanics are going to work, and ways to counter it.

Second clue: Not all thieves are perma-stealth thieves.

Third Clue: Go back to the ranger boards please.

I have a ranger alt (bunker type), and the rangers that usually give me issues are melee bunker with good healing. If a bow ranger with 1500 range catches me unaware at max range, then they do cause some hurt, but good situational awareness can mitigate that.

Blinds will reduce the efficiency of the new abilities. If you don’t have any in your build, now is a good time to get at least one. (this is assuming that the stealth triggers on a hit, and not simply using the skill)

edit: I will say I like the new Shadow Strike, since I’m a P/D user. :P

I will say one new skill for rangers that makes me sad, is:

Point Blank Shot: Increased the range from 600 to 900.

Ranger’s point blank shot is our maximum range on anything except traited steal.

They can reduce the cd to 9 seconds via traits. I’m hoping that the shot has to actually land to stealth, or it’s going to be fairly OP.

Pretty much when you see them stealth, they are doing one of two things: setting up for burst or trying to escape/gain distance.

Other classes will have more issues with their stealth than thieves. They’ll be more annoying for sure, for thieves, but if you’re a X/D user, you can CnD off their pet (unless they’re smart enough to recall it long enough to pull it out of your melee range).

The good rangers will be tougher for it, and the rest will take a little longer to kill. If you have any points in trickery, you can opt for the 1500 range steal. That will help keep them in arms reach if they’re being pesky.

Patch notes on front page of GW2

There’s gonna be so many LB rangers in WvW now.

Lol, so now the general message from BG is “play for fun”, or get more of your people to get out there. Nothing has changed on SoR, yet the BG whines have mysteriously vanished.

I wish Bg would make up it’s mind about SoR. I am willing to bet if SoR had an influx of transfers to match BG’s Sea/oceanic, there would be a wildfire of complaints, and accusations of “unbalancing the server”.

Seriously, just come up with a ruleset for any server that fights BG, so we can make sure things are “balanced”.

I use a 50/50 combo of Carrion and Rabid (for the toughness). I have just enough critical chance to make decent use of the Sigil of Earth.

Why anyone spends real life money for gems, I’ll never know. You may be supporting Anet, which in turn, allows them to put out more content, but more often than not, it’s content many people don’t want, poorly implemented (the amount of bugs is astonishing) and Anet still doesn’t seem to listen to it’s customers (the last patch was a step in the right direction, but still too little, too late).

Kaidengaran.3528:

If SOR is wondering about all these ‘BG trolls’, perhaps they should go back and check all thoer comments. Sure there is some trolling and chest thumping from BG and while I don’t agree with it, it’s all in retaliation to the copious amounts of un-classy SOR posters.

DB you guys are showing a lot of class despite being outnumbered by both servers, keep up the awesome work and enjoy the fights you have.

SOR, stop complaining about coverage. You have NA/EU coverage stacked, we have OC/SEA stacked….it balances out.

Let’s start to increase the maturity level a bit in tgis thread and actually enjoy tue game without the drama on here. Everyone needs to follow that advice thier mums gave/ used to give them “if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”

peace

Stop complaining about coverage? That’s what BG did for weeks on end (every 3rd post seemed like a coverage complaint from BG). At the very least, SoR is allowed as many weeks to vent about BG coverage as BG did.

Sunt.6835:

Fade.7658:

It’s funny. Not one week ago, BG was whining endlessly about how stacked SoR is, and how unfair it is that their EU unbalances the server. Now, it’s all bravado about how SoR sucks trying to take Bay, and how the PPT for SoR is so low. BG has been ticking 300+ since reset most of the time.

Let me guess, still doing the Mulder, and thinking that SoR is trying to get more guilds to transfer over?

Apparently, things are balanced if BG holds at least a 20K+ lead in PPT, but not if SoR is ahead, even by 2K.

Seriously, make up your minds.

Nice showing by DB so far.

u guys just didn’t aware that JQ presence helped u a lot and yea some of them even

intentionally helped SoR.

It’s more like BG didn’t realize this. SoR likely didn’t either, but you notice all the whining has stopped from BG, and now it’s smugness and bravado as the word of the day.

As a side note, I’m very surprised Kathy K. isn’t here gloating, and spewing forth his litanies.

It’s funny. Not one week ago, BG was whining endlessly about how stacked SoR is, and how unfair it is that their EU unbalances the server. Now, it’s all bravado about how SoR sucks trying to take Bay, and how the PPT for SoR is so low. BG has been ticking 300+ since reset most of the time.

Let me guess, still doing the Mulder, and thinking that SoR is trying to get more guilds to transfer over?

Apparently, things are balanced if BG holds at least a 20K+ lead in PPT, but not if SoR is ahead, even by 2K.

Seriously, make up your minds.

Nice showing by DB so far.

I’ve always liked the cultural T2 stuff

I think BG is going to find that SoR isn’t as “stacked” as they complain about. The 8 or so weeks SoR was winning, was likely due to JQ also focusing BG.

Regardless, I’m sure that even if BG wins by 30K or more, they’ll think that SoR doesn’t need any transfers or anything like that and are just fine, if not unbalancing the tier. There is simply too much hate between the two servers for any sort of courtesy.

Clockradio.3257:

Umm… it’s SEA time now, SOR always preforms poorly (no numbers)… you should know that fade.

During the week, I’d expect it, but weekends seem to typically be better. Maybe there’s a lot of drinkin’ goin’ on instead :P

I’m pretty curious as to why SoR is doing so poorly, ticking at ~100. I know it’s the weekend, but did the server lose people, taking a break or?

Can anyone give a brief list of who ended up transferring where, please? There was more chest thumping than anything else in the previous thread.

It’s interesting how other servers know what’s best for SoR. As Fannwong stated, PPT is a pretty good indication of numbers, or lack thereof.

All we need now is some comment from Kathy K. to make this complete.

I’m also curious as to why people think SoR is recruiting all these guilds that are allegedly transferring over. I’m betting they made the decision, not anyone on SoR. You should be asking these guilds as to why, not pointing fingers at SoR as a whole.

He bought a second account to keep posting what he does? Does he hate SoR that much? If that’s the case, he should seriously take a break or something.

Scorpio Spork.9568:

Fade.7658:

Something I threw together in a few minutes using celestial gear:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlUmaPXey5E9JFyWhKk7BT5UJl/hvq/wVB-jkCBoeCiUAAEEgUHQJfFRjtEsIasqaER1qbYmbDRzmL1SBAxYA-w

Add 250 to power for the sigil of bloodlust, there’s a toggle for it, but it doesn’t save in the link.

3K power
68% crit damage, with 31% crit chance
732 condition damage, with 75% bleed duration
17.5K health, with 2751 armor and 736 healing power

Hidden assassin adds 140 might on average (4 stacks). That’s another 140 condition damage and 140 power on top of all that.

It might work decently, I don’t have the laurels or gear to try it though.

That’s a lot of power! Personally, I think I prefer different runes and a higher crit chance, but that’s an interesting way to hybridize. Unfortunately, I have five different 80’s competing for laurels, which is why I’m using exotics for gear calculations.

But your post got me looking at what I put together again, trying to emphasize more condition damage. Now, with 25 sigil stacks and food I hit nearly 1.5k condition damage (1k without). Condition duration hits 50% with food. Crit chance sits at a comfortable 50%, and crit damage is increased by 54%.

As far as traits go, I get +10% damage with pistols, and +20% damage when my target falls below 50% health. I’m worried I don’t have the power to make as much use out of those traits, but that trait line also gives a lot of critical damage and precision. In general, I feel like that’s going to get me the most damage per trait point than anything else. But I suppose if I want more power, I can swap the Tuning Crystals out for Sharpening Stones.

At this point, I’m over thinking it. I just need to test the build and see what I think.

It’s been my impression that power usually trumps out other power-based stats up to a point. I can’t find the calculations, but there’s a breaking point where each stat becomes more valuable.

With my testing, I had right around 40% crit chance and it seemed to be enough. The build I threw together could be changed some, with an accuracy sigil to add 5% crit chance, for example. You could also choose the Side Strike trait for 7% more crit chance, as you’ll do most of your attacks from an angle anyways. That ups crit chance to 43/44%.

There’s enough of a choice in gear, that you should be able to find a nice medium. I’ve always tried for at least 3K power and 40% crit chance in any power build (I tend to favor a lot of defense with any build I use, so I don’t go glass cannon at all) but it’s not easy. You have to give up something sadly.

Edit: I realized that the 3K power should read as 3K Attack, not power. My mistake.

So JQ wants to break SoR’s morale, and get people to leave. I imagine that can go both ways, especially if SoR focuses JQ to the exclusion of everything else.

BG will be the clear winner, but I bet if SoR goes out of their way to make sure JQ’s PPT is constantly under 150, their morale will break before SoR’s.

Edit: I notice most of the complaining from the standard BG posters is very minimal in light of the ~10K lead (and growing). I honestly think BG won’t be entirely happy until they constantly win each match by 20K+ every week, but hey, that’s balance.

My P/D condition build is right around 1.8K condition damage. With Hidden Assassin, it can reach1950 to 2000. You can get around 2100 without too much trouble, but you give up too much survivability imo, and I could never get enough condition duration to go with it, and have the survivability I want in builds.

Imo, what makes condition builds decent, is that most people don’t always pay attention to stacks of bleeds like they do to large numbers. (and more people than you’d think don’t run reliable condition removal)

I could never get a decent P/D power build, and still have the minimum 1.1k-1.3K condition damage to go with it. (and maintain at least 50% condition duration)

Edit: You might get some decent results with the new celestial armor and weapon recipes and run celestial jewelry. The calcs haven’t updated to reflect the new stuff yet.

Something I threw together in a few minutes using celestial gear:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlUmaPXey5E9JFyWhKk7BT5UJl/hvq/wVB-jkCBoeCiUAAEEgUHQJfFRjtEsIasqaER1qbYmbDRzmL1SBAxYA-w

Add 250 to power for the sigil of bloodlust, there’s a toggle for it, but it doesn’t save in the link.

3K power Edit: <——- this should be read as attack not power.
68% crit damage, with 31% crit chance
732 condition damage, with 75% bleed duration
17.5K health, with 2751 armor and 736 healing power

Hidden assassin adds 140 might on average (4 stacks). That’s another 140 condition damage and 140 power on top of all that.

It might work decently, I don’t have the laurels or gear to try it though.

After spending the day on SoR border, and BG holding at least a 100 PPT lead, with it being over 200 most of the day, (not to mention seeing hordes of BG all over the place) it really looks like the majority of whines from BG are largely baseless. (if you have a beef with anyone, it’s those individuals that stated that SoR passes guilds on to other servers etc. or other claims)

BG can more than hold their own.

Edit: Even if you have to have people pull overtime at times, you can still hold your own if you want to win. There aren’t any rules forbidding it. SoR has done the same from what I can tell. The only server that really has a bonafide complaint is JQ. Why people/guilds don’t go there, I have no clue.

The large PPT SoR AND BG enjoy at various times, comes at the expense of JQ. If JQ could hold onto their property as well as BG/SoR do, then I think you’d start to see which server is doing the best.

The only game I ever played where there was an “all call” was DAoC. I remember many a time when Albion spooled up a relic raid, and the call was sent out, and people logged in specifically to counter said raid. GW2 WvW doesn’t hold a candle to anything DAoC offered, and I’d be surprised if anyone anywhere, held “all calls”.

I only recently started following the match up threads, and I kind of wish I didn’t. All this crying and whining from all three servers. For kitten’s sake, get everyone together, and write some sort of Server charter stating what’s fair and what’s not, so everyone will stop accusing each other over petty crap.

Skale venom is good for putting pressure on somewhat, but I’ll keep caltrops instead, especially vs. thieves (and D/P in particular). When they drop Shadow Refuge, drop a caltrops on top of them. Most try to get on the edges and re-appear on accident or run out entirely.

I’ve tried it in WvW. It’s disappointing at best. The damage just isn’t really there. It can be made to work, but it shines best with conditions.

I was able to get numbers a little higher than Evilek, and it got better when your opponent was under 50%, but it’s just not all that easy building an effective hybrid build as a thief.

I found it a lot of fun, just not as effective as condition-based P/D.

zepp.4109:

Burl.9567:

zepp.4109:

SoR doesn’t have SEA coverage.

Now can you guys stop crying about your SEA timezone pls? ^.^

You were saying?

this v

Or this?

Burnished Steel works well too, but I don’t know what it’s going for.

You’re doing smoke bomb wrong.

This is the proper way:

Pact weapons are a reward for completing your living personal story I believe.

I have found with the sigil of doom, that unless I totally un-equip all weapons, and re-equip them, It will not function properly. Every single time I zone into another area, I have to do this.

While I don’t know if this is common to all weapon-swap sigils, It’s a possibility.

I’m on SoR, and while you’d find what you were looking for here, you’d also find it on Jade Quarry as well, and they are in more need of people for WvW than SoR or BG.

I found that you can’t really get a good balance of power and condition damage, at least with P/D. You start lowering the direct damage to grab some condition damage, and the direct damage suffers quickly.

I was able to get passable hybrid results at around 70-80 damage per bleed, and maintain reasonable direct damage, but you get spread thin, and there are far better builds out there.

Your best bet is to use a good damage setup that has decent survivability if you’re set on a direct damage P/D build.

I’ve tried P/D with a focus on power/crit. You will be mildly disappointed. Auto-attacks hit for ~900-1K, and Sneak attack was 2-3K. The semi-surprise, though, was Shadow Strike. It actually hit decently, anywhere from 3-5K, depending on target’s health.

It was fun to play, but it won’t have the stopping power you’d like.

And it looks like BG has been ticking a higher PPT for a decent portion of EST morning. If this is consistent, then all the incessant whining from BG has been a waste of time.

Edit: If any server has the right to complain, it’s JQ.

I use this build:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|a.1m.h16.8.1m.h1i|a.1m.h1i.8.1m.hg|1h.719.1b.719.1h.719.1h.719.1b.719.1b.719|2x.0.2x.0.3x.0.2x.0.3x.0.2w.0|f5.0.u34b.f2.a3|30.d|0.0.0.0.0|e

I get my poison from Sigil of Doom. I don’t have to use a utility slot on Spider Venom. I can go with either caltrops or skale venom instead. I’d go with Nightmare runes but I don’t like PvE, so running dungeons for the runes is out.

Edit: Add 250 condition damage for sigil of corruption, which gets swapped out at 25 stacks.

It’s still the weekend. No one really knows how things will pan out during the rest of the match-up. I don’t know a lot about the transfers, but from what I read in chat, at least one of them is a smaller guild, that prefers small team action.

People are complaining before it actually happens.

This is only my opinion, but it seems to me the complaining by BG this week is especially strong, is that last week, they won, and likely felt they had command of the tier back, and so far, it’s proving not to be the case.

Frankly, I wish the communities were like what DAoC had back in the day. I remember very little bickering on the Guinevere forums between the three factions. Here, it seems like three fat children, fighting over an ice cream cone, and not realizing that it melted while they were bickering.

Not sure who Vodka is really, as I don’t spend a lot of time on the forums, but ok!

Why is he or she always upset?