Guild Wars 2

unknownchaos.1425:

Fay – I’m glad you find me adorable. As for your well thoughtout analysis. I’ve already said this isn’t a highlight reel more then a few times. There is times in the video I’m laughing so hard while playing I’m shocked I even lived at times. That seems to be overlooked. I’m one of them people if something is really funny I laugh alot. I’m guessing you don’t know what that’s like? It absolutely ruins any focus you may have. There isn’t anything about this video that was super tryhard srsbuisness. I’m not sure why people can’t overlook that.

It’s obvious it’s not a highlight reel, and I’m not saying it should be. Your play is bad, and there’s literally nothing in that entire video that could be cherrypicked as a ‘highlight reel’ that wouldn’t show how bad the play is, along with the play of your enemies. Yeah, a lot of people will cherrypick hours of footage to show the 5 times they instakilled some uplevels, but this is just 30 minutes of showing hilariously awful play by everyone involved.

messiah.1908:

he probably used also mirror when you rapid fire which can take 50% hp of you

It might do some damage, but it won’t do all that much when the mes is running condie gear.

knkasa.2608:

Actually, the enemies in the video weren’t too bad. These are kind of the average enemies you’ll often encounter in wvw, and there are lots of them. The video is a good example why I stopped roaming.

They were a bit below average imo…but not that much below average. That’s not a reflection on how bad they were though, just a reflection on how awful most people in WvW were. They were still really bad.

Just a note, you can’t share alacrity, so you can go ahead and scrub that from any theorycrafting you do.

EremiteAngel.9765:

okay so…i think condi PU stacking of confusion needs a rework…

I literally rapid fired myself to death when the mesmer stacked 8 stacks of confusion and almost 10 stacks of torment on me.

What I am most unhappy about is that he stacked those in like 2 seconds. 8 confusion 10 torment in 2 seconds?

that is a death sentence to anyone.

i know I shouldnt have rapid fired and should clear the condi first, but i fought him a second time, cleared it, and he restacked it just as quickly.

and the worst thing is confusion now does damage even if i am not attacking. and that hurts.

i suggest limiting confusion damage to only when attacking, for those applied by mesmers because they stack them easily and can just stack and go invis and watch the enemy die.

Try dodging the block and shatter next time. If you eat obviously telegraphed skills, you deserve to die. Additionally, you don’ melt yourself on the passive ticks of confusion. You probably just spammed skills and killed yourself. Don’t do that next time.

Chronomancer is the only elite spec that actually added interesting and unique mechanics to the class. Reaper is basically just AoE QoL changes for necro, dragonhunter is basically ‘we thought we’d just add the ranger toolkit to guardians, that way you don’t need to worry about bringing rangers anymore’, and tempest was basically ‘so you know all of the stuff ele does? Well, we’re not going to add anything really new or unique (except for stuff mesmers already do), but we’ll make you better at all of the things you already do.’

It’s adorable that the OP is trying to make insults about video quality. Once you have a video with more than 10k views, then you can have ground to stand on. Until then, you have no room to talk, especially since your video is barely scraping out 60% like/dislike ratio.

At any rate, this video is a glowing example of how absolutely horrid most WvW players are. Everyone in this video is awful.

You can hear the people on TS talking about how they don’t know which is the real one, they have no idea what he’s running, they appear to have zero condition removal between all of them combined, and they repeatedly suicide on amusingly low stacks of confusion.

The OP repeatedly wastes stealth by forcing himself revealed through chaos storm, wastes skills by casting them obstructed or out of range, dodge-cancels the scepter block all the time, and rarely manages to actually land a proper shatter burst, despite the fact that none of the enemies seem to have figured out that dodging is a thing in GW2.

I can see the humor in this video, but it’s overshadowed by me cringing at the absolutely mindboggling lack of skill exhibited by every person shown.

Drayos.8759:

tobascodagama.2961:

Drayos.8759:

well yes that is true, but Mesmers are 1200 Range, you arnt going to really be near the actual Damage itself

Hahaha, ok. If you say so.

If i say so?… Its a classic MMO thing for Melee to be at more danger then Ranged, 1200 Range should be enough Distance to see things coming, which gives u more time to react to it rather being upfront where it’ll fall on you faster.

Im sorry, but In PvP Mesmers Survivability with a Full Zerker builds pretty strong, they dont need a Shield to survive, they havnt since the release of this game and have made it through everything.

Arguing this Shield will be a required for Mesmers to survive the Upcoming PvE Content is silly, if Mesmers survivability was that bad it’d of been identified in PvP, sure pure Focus will but Lets face it ur not face tanking the monsters.

He’s laughing at you because every single class in PvE plays melee, this is not a matter of debate. Even using a ranged weapon, you play up close because that keeps you in range for all of the boons your party generates, and keeps mobs from wandering around much.

So here’s my thought on chronomancer for PvE. See if my logic and assumptions make sense:

1. In an ideal scenario, a mesmer fully specced for damage is roughly comparable to slapping the boss with a limp noodle compared to the amount of damage elementalists do
2. The mesmer role in a party, therefore, should aim to maximize the damage the elementalists do without sacrificing more damage than is necessary
3. Alacrity and quickness will make elementalists do significantly more damage
4. Chronomancer can provide alacrity and quickness in several ways
   1. A well provides alacrity, 4 seconds of alacrity on a 45 second cooldown
   2. A well provides quickness, 3 seconds of quickness on a 30 second cooldown
   3. Shield wall provides quickness, 3 seconds of quickness (1.5 in, 1.5 out) on a 30 second cooldown (assuming you catch the wall)
   4. Shield phantasms provide alacrity, bouncing attack, 1s alacrity….not reliable
   5. Can trait to gain 1s of quickness for each illusion shattered. Potentially 3 (4?) seconds of quickness for a full shatter, can chain 2 shatters for potentially 6 (8?) seconds of quickness, then share
   6. Time Warp
5. All methods of sharing alacrity and quickness have cooldowns.
6. To minimize the cooldowns, the mesmer should aim to have maximize uptime on alacrity
7. To maximize uptime on alacrity, the mesmer may want to trait dueling, illusions, chrono for low shatter cooldowns and high illusion generation.

So basically, the conclusion is that the mesmer can take on the role of quickness/alacrity stick by speccing as a shatter build to maximize personal alacrity uptime. This would allow for the lowest possible cooldowns on providing quickness and alacrity, allowing your dps teammates to dps as hard as possible. Somewhere around a 50% uptime on quickness could be achieved, with significantly lower alacrity uptime depending on how well the phantasms perform.

I’m not sure if speccing like that would be worth the dps loss, but it’s definitely something to consider.

Maxzero.4032:

Slow spam will be awesome.

Sure.

Maxzero.4032:

The increased crit chance on slowed enemies is really good. If it also applied to your Illusions that would be awesome.

Meh. In a good party you’re already near/at the crit cap, so that won’t be a huge deal.

Maxzero.4032:

The Shield can summon two Phantasms in ideal situations but yeah it seems limited.

Yeah, but the phantasms do no damage, they’re purely utility. If you really need the slow, that’ll be great. If you want to do any damage, that’ll be awful.

Maxzero.4032:

Wells are good, especially the damage one.

Eh, not really. Some of the other utility wells might be used, but the damage one won’t do nearly enough damage to be worth equipping compared to say mantra of pain.

messiah.1908:

but i think the main difference is that ele now have less defense and aoe with no offhand dagger or focus thus they may play a defense role or bunker role which than become like a bunker guardian

Uhhhhhhhhh…did you even read any of the notes?

Less aoe? Literally all 8 of the skills on warhorn are aoe.

Less defense? They get an aoe pulsing blind field, an aoe pull for control, aoe protection (oh, and protection now can be traited to be 40% reduction), and they can trait to do an aoe stunbreak for every single warhorn skill, which is absolutely insane. On top of all that, their aurashare and/or aura boosting builds have been massively buffed due to the insane amounts of auras they’ll be able to apply with their shouts.

Basically tempest is what you get if you take an ele, you say ‘hmz, I don’t want to add anything unique or interesting, but since eles can’t strip boons or boon share, I’ll add that. Also, I think I’ll make them better at literally everything they already do’. It’s boring and horrifying power creep.

Post-HoT PvE teams will actually potentially be optimal with purely 5 eles. Speedruns will take 4 eles and a mesmer to shuttle them around with portals. Literally the only things eles can’t do now are aoe reflects (though they do have swirling winds) and portal. Just makes me sad that the devs are so blind that they can’t see what they’re doing do the game with this.

nearlight.3064:

Warhorn only really needs a blast finisher or 2 and come cooldowns lowered to compre with dagger.

Because ele needs more blast finishers /facepalm

nearlight.3064:

Also with BD, mesmer provides more stability uptime overtime than Elementalists can. Eles could share many stacks of it at once, but with lower uptime and they’ll probably want to use it to cover channel casts instead.

While technically true, stability is a nonissue in PvE, and 1 stack for 5s every 15 seconds is still pretty pointless. On top of that, eles will have the ability to do an aoe stunbreak roughly once every 10 seconds by traiting their warhorn, so who needs stability?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

And unless I’m doing something wrong on Ele, they don’t come close to our Fury stacking. It isn’t uncommon for us to hold on to 45+ seconds of fury just from normal play.

And I think I have one of our testing vids recorded where rylock managed over a minute of protection. Though the protection amounts I’m less certain of since I can barely bang out 30s, I’ve no idea how he pulled that.

Well, I got it pretty easily up to 58s of protection. I just traited glamours, took feedback, null field, sw/sw+ staff, traited sword, traited, staff, and took runes of the grove for protection uptime.

…but that means I’m taking an insane amount of stuff just to stack protection, when an ele could just spam down their bar to apply auras and protection to everything with no effort needed.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

To be honest… Iunno.

When looking at the boons, all ele boons tend to be rather short duration. Same could be said for Mesmer, but we can double-share.

Mesmer have better access to:

• protection (chaotic dampening)
• fury (dueling)

And… Crap. We lost vigor. Thing is that sharing the boons just ONCE every 30s wasn’t enough for us, and I dunno how well it will work for Ele. However..

In terms of pure support, Tempest seems to take it by far. The boons actually aren’t what caught my eye so much as the sheer amount of support that comes with practically EVERYTHING a tempest does.

I don’t think we have to worry about boonsharing from their war horn competing with us because honestly Tempest’s all-around support just blows every other class out the water.

However, when Chronomancer rolls around, offering the possibility of sharing boons four-six times over in addition to alacrity and slow and wells and all that, Mesmers may be able to share the support spotlight.

Possibilities, man… Possibilities.

You’re not really right about those boons. Our fury is 5s duration, while eles can stack tons and tons of it. As far as protection go, eles have a trait that gives them protection when applying auras, aaaaaaaand all of those shouts apply auras, plus weaponskills apply auras….so yeah.

I think that in PvE, elementalist won’t be doing much boon sharing. They’d have to take warhorn, which means they wouldn’t be taking staff, and so losing damage. That being said…there’s not really much need for boon sharing in PvE anyway, so it’s not much of an issue.

In PvP, I find it extremely hard to believe that elementalist won’t completely displace mesmer for boon sharing utility. With respect to boons, elementalists have the best of everything in this game. They stack might like crazy, have tons of protection, swiftness, fury, regen, and vigor. They even get massive stacks of stability with armor of earth. I think it’s absolutely inappropriate that the class able to stack patently absurd amounts of boons now gets access to sharing them as well. There’s no doubt in my mind that boon sharing mesmers will be absolutely useless if there’s an ele nearby.

Eles are definitely stepping on our toes quite a bit with tempest. Boon sharing, very significant boon removal (aoe field pulsing 8 times, seriously?), and aoe cooldown reduction. Not a trend that I’m a fan of, that’s for sure.

Well, from a PvE perspective…all of those traits are varying degrees of bad.

Evasive mirror conflicts with the sword trait, and you don’t really need more personal reflects in PvE, you need aoe reflects.

BD means you’re taking the chaos line and you’re shattering your phantasms just for some weak boons, it’s awful.

Restorative illusions means you’re again shattering your phantasms just for a bit of unnecessary healing and condition removal. It also conflicts with the focus trait.

If persistence of memory procced whenever a phantasm died, it might be awesome in PvE. As it is though, it’s useless since you’ll almost never shatter your phantasms.

I think persistence of memory gets ‘overlooked’ because of the impossibility of making an effective pvp phantasm build now. Traits across 4 lines (Dom/duel/insp/Ill) are all extremely important. You’ve got dps and cooldowns for gs in domination, phant fury/sword CDs/pistol CDs in dueling, all the phantasm defense boosters including mental defense in inspiration, and then persistence of memory and phantasmal haste in illusions.

The traits being this spread out effectively makes phantasm builds the polar opposite of shatter and lockdown builds now. Shatter and lockdown have multiple options to take very strong variants of the core build that is always available. Phantasm builds have to decide which part of their core build they want to sacrifice in order to play. It’s a lose/lose situation that really sucks for anyone that enjoyed that playstyle pre-patch.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Mak.2657:

Staff ele can kite through his aoe of cource (Lava Font, etc) and kill unexp/thirsty thief but odd still in thief favor. Vs mesmer even less chanse. But that was before patch too. Patch brings nothing new in this matchup imho.

The numbers of interrupts and the survive-ability of the mesmer has gone up significantly. Which mean what was hard before is now even harder still. And, of course, the damage boost all across the board makes this even more impossible.

I think what irks me a lot is you can play zerk anything but ele. Sure, you will be underdog as a zerk something else too, but it’s not hopeless. Zerk necro, thief or mesmer? No problem at all! Zerk ele? Are you crazy? What were you thinking bro!?

Your complaints are the equivalent of an old-style glamour Mesmer complaining that they’re not doing well in PvE or duels. Sometimes, builds simply aren’t capable of performing well in some aspects of the game. If you want to continue trying to, as Apharma put it, hammer nails with a screwdriver, then by all means continue. Just complain about how hard it is somewhere else.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

apharma.3741:

Ok then let me be blunt, playing staff zerker ele against a burst build like that is just silly. You should lose, the odds are stacked against you so stop complaining. You should lose to most thieves, power necros should farm you and even medi guards should stomp you with ease. In fact most zerker builds have it heavily weighted in their favour.

Play a more realistic burst build with ele like D/F or S/F fresh air and you stand a better chance at bursting people down. The only person you have to blame is yourself for the situation you’re in, you’re using the wrong tools for the wrong job.

I do assume the unfairness of my choice as long as some hope remains. Yes, I loose most of my fight vs burst builds no matter the profession and I’m okay with most of it. However, there are levels of unfair that are just kitten wrong is what I’m saying.

Even a burst thief, how I hate them as a zerk staff you have no idea, still provides slivers of hope and have to accept some risks when they attacks me while having a higher skill requirement to make me feel that hopeless. The mesmer as he is OTOH make me feel the same thing even when it is played by relatively new players.

Literally all a thief has to do to kill you is walk at you and autoattack. Take d/p, press f1, walk at you and autoattack. When you run away, press 3, walk at you and autoattack. Once you hit 50% hp, replace walk at you and autoattack with pressing 2 instead.

Fighting anyone of even the most basic competence on any dueling build should get you stomped into the ground as a staff ele. Any complaints you make from that perspective are both amusing and meaningless.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

apharma.3741:

Well, I main ele and have a ridiculous amount on staff with zerk. If PvP I would suggest rolling something with a bit more vit and toughness but if you prefer zerk stick with marauder. Mistform, lightening flash and arcane shield (also final shielding trait)are great and all can be used when stunned, with 2 being a stun break.

Mist form the first burst, make sure you use your AoE to cleave out clones. When they fail the shatter you should have 2-3s before the daze mantra is ready again so meteor is a good thing to lay down then, cancel just before the full channel though. Use of chill will be very effective on them too and keeping a good rotation going so you get high protection uptime.

If you’re talking WvW and you’re roaming with staff, sorry but that’s just a bad plan without others but with a few other people you should have a better time. If zerg watch the fringes of the fight, keep an eye on their movements and make sure you’re not too out of position and keep your back to your zerg for a quick burning retreat to them. It doesn’t matter if you go down with your Zerg, any decent commander will Rez an ele as they know how valuable they are especially if you’re calling out water fields on TS.

Got any more specifics about your fights?

Maybe you didn’t read it when I first said it but I’ve been playing the zerk staff for thousands of hours. Reminding me of what Mistform and Arcane shield can do might be well intended but in the end it’s condescending and suggesting you aren’t serious at all.

Of course I mistform the first burst and know all about what can maximize my results! The problem is, you can’t possibly keep up with the mesmer no matter if he is shatter, PU or mantra or a mix of that. You can delay the inevitable but unless the mesmer make several bad mistakes and you make none you don’t have a prayer no matter if it’s wvw or pvp (and yes I went from zerk to marauder eventually because kitten). If you really have that much experience in the zerk staff you should know these things…

Personally, I like to have an underdog fight. I like that challenge. Heck, why do you think someone would stick with zerk staff in duel, roaming and pvp? My problem isn’t hitting the ground. I died more than 13k times on that build (/deaths). However, when the fights are THAT unfair and you genuinely feel it’s hopeless even before it’s starts you know something is bad.

Quite honestly, if you’re complaining about mesmers as a zerker staff ele, the only advice you should ever receive is ‘play something else’.

Zerker staff ele is simply not a good dueling build. It has low mobility, poor burst, and poor control because almost everything it does is slow and obviously avoidable by just walking out of the way. There are so many things that just hardcounter it with no possibility of recovery. Any good thief, any good Mesmer, any celery elery, warriors, guardians, etc.

Your problems with mesmers have nothing to do with mesmers, and everything to do with trying to duel on a zerker staff ele. That unfairness and knowledge that the upcoming fight is hopeless? Yeah, you should be feeling that against almost every competent dueling build across any class.

Fay.2357:

Explanation:

In beta, you could stack infinite swiftness by walking back and forth over the curtain. Anet didn’t like this, so they slapped a band-aid fix on it to prevent that behavior.

Sometime between then and now, that band-aid transformed into ‘working as intended, nothing to see here, move along.’

Serious Thought.5394:

Confounding suggestions is ok, but it’s not effective when you need it. Stunbreakers left and right, stability resembling candy. It’s strong, absolutely, but whenever I need it (and I had the trait) it never happened.

You are literally the only person I have encountered since the patch went live that has expressed any opinion even remotely resembling something along the lines of ‘CS isn’t incredibly strong’.

In other words, you’re totally wrong. CS is arguably one of the strongest traits in the game atm, and is due for a toning down.

Mak.2657:

I suggest a fix:
Thief: no interrupt possible.

Most of thief use withdraw
Necros in theory can use Foot in the Grave trait too

Good call. FitG isn’t really a viable option to protect the heal though, as it forces them to flash in and out of death shroud just to cast a heal.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Not all classes get to have instant mantra heals and be able to do a blurred frenzy while healing yourself, or distorting and healing yourself, or invising to heal yourself except thief and SOMETIMES ranger (with the blinds going around like hot cakes it’s hard to even land hunter’s shot nowadays , but still do-able).

Hah, that’s rather amusing. As if the mantra heal doesn’t have an enormous counterable channel.

At any rate, lets see here…

Warrior: no interrupts possible
Ele: no interrupts possible
Engineer: 1/2 channel; interruptable only by luck
Ranger: Stealth/stab/disable transfer to pet to cover heal
Mesmer: Stealth to cover heal
Guardian: No interrupts possible unless unblockable cc
Edit: Thief: No interrupt possible due to withdraw Stealth/blinds to cover heal

Really the only class that has difficulty protecting their heal through skilled play is necro, and that’s only one of a bunch of pressing issues that class has.

zexion.5842:

I wasn’t literally referring to getting it down to 12 seconds. I meant by the time you switch to scepter the CD will be at or around 12 seconds and by the time you switch back it’s ready.

Then it’s not even remotely on a 12 second cooldown, is it now. It’s on a 20 second cooldown, and has gotten down to 12 seconds by the time you swap back to staff.

zexion.5842:

Healing prism on it’s own is terrible. Combined with other sources of healing? Fantastic.

This is the most illogical statement in the entire thread. Healing prism doesn’t magically get better with other sources of healing. That trait heals nearby allies for ~600ish every 10 seconds. To say that it’s worthless is an understatement, and having other ways of healing doesn’t change that in any way, shape, or form.

zexion.5842:

Over time it’s great combined with sigils, regen and mantra charging.

No, over time it’s still awful.

zexion.5842:

Also this build just shuts down conditions in PvE which has continually been a threat or annoying lately.

Since when have conditions ever been a threat? Answer: they haven’t, ever. Aside from that, you can just take the mantra cleanse and mender’s purity in every single normal PvE meta build and have just as much cleansing as this build does.

zexion.5842:

This trait is giving near 100% up time on chaos armor AND 12 sec CD CHAOS STORMS.

Again, no it’s not. 12.7s chaos storm cooldown was possible with the 5% trait. Now, the absolute minimum is 20.5s. You can do the math yourself if you want…

Edit: They also nerfed healing prism into the ground. You seem to be a little behind the times with this build, several things have gotten nerfed.

Edit 2: Malicious sorcery is also broken. It doesn’t increase attack speed at all, so it’s useless for you.

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

Thats weird cuz my ‘poor play’ doesnt punish me against anothers professions. Of course i get trouble with thiefs chasing me simetimes, but tbh i can deal with it most of times. But, against mesmers… lol

Your poor play absolutely punishes you against any other profession that attempts to interrupt heals. The key is that mesmers punish you more. Want to know why?

Because interrupts and associated punishing effects are one of the main themes that Anet has consistently attempted to work into mesmer.

You just don’t like being punished for playing poorly. That’s ok, nobody likes being punished. Complaining about being punished for poor play is simply foolish though.

Nah against other profesions its like 50/50 or who makes more/less mistakes. Its not all about the heal interrupt, tbh this happens very rarely. I didnt mean the insta kills like this

So ok, i am a bad player, thats fine. But its still a unbalanced game if a bad player only get trouble with mesmers, dont you think? Bad players like me should get f****d by all professions. Or maybe all other’s profession’s players are just bad as me.

Or maybe you do get destroyed by all professions, but get particularly irritated fighting mesmers because our mechanics are easy to hate and are the FOTM thing to whine on the forums about.

And no, claiming that you don’t get destroyed by all professions isn’t anywhere close to proof that you don’t get destroyed by all professions, as indicated by that lovely video you showed us where any burst build on any profession would have instakilled you since you play with a low FoV, camera zoomed in, and get tunnel vision on your target…but we already discussed this in the other thread, so no need to go over it again.

Additionally, though, is another basic problem. The concept of this build is support through stacking chaos armor and such. To do this, you’re sacrificing a high dps offhand weapon set for staff, which has essentially zero dps outside of the phantasm. You’re sacrificing a significant amount of damage stats and modifiers on your runes for longer duration on your chaos armor, which ultimately adds absolutely nothing to your team. Let me just go over the ‘What you bring’ section:

zexion.5842:

Glamours
Resistance boon
Super speed
Quickness
Slow
10-12 sec CDs on chaos storm
Near perma Chaos armor
9-12 stacks of might (more depending on your sigils)
Boon sharing (access to every boon in the game)
Stability
Group healing
22k health
INSANE condition crushing (from resistance, null field and menders purity trait)
AoE distortion

Ok, this is a decent amount of stuff, so lets take a closer look/

Glamours, resistance, superspeed, quickness, slow, boon sharing, group healing, condition crushing, stability, and aoe distortion are all easily available in standard meta PvE builds. There is no need to run this sort of odd build to get those.

10-12 second CD on chaos storm (which is actually absolutely false. Your minimum cooldown with permanent chaos armor is 20.5 seconds) is more or less meaningless, since you’re sacrificing massively stronger damage from sword cleaving and an offhand phantasm to get that lower storm cooldown.

Near perma chaos armor is meaningless for PvE.

9-12 stacks of might is pointless for PvE. If you have an even halfway decent ele, or even a horrid warrior that took phalanx strength and knows how to faceroll on a greatsword, the entire party will be at 25 might permanently.

Boon sharing is nice and all, but most of what you’re sharing isn’t all that necessary. It’s nice to be able to share protection and aegis, but ultimately you can share those boons when you get them from your party, and they’ll be longer duration than what you can apply personally anyway.

And lastly, 22k hp is meaningless for PvE.

So altogether, this build brings absolutely nothing of interest to a PvE group that a normal PvE meta build couldn’t already do, but sacrifices a very significant amount of damage to do so. Don’t run this build in PvE.

WvW, as I already mentioned, could see this build having some very interesting uses, and I’d love to see it in action (and would love to see the runes added to PvP so we could use it there too).

zexion.5842:

I don’t see why not? Because you are not running full zerker?

That’s correct. You’re running a build that’s absolutely awful at doing damage, and that’s a huge no-no for PvE. There’s simply no reason to run a low damage build when you could run a high damage build that does everything a low damage build could ever possibly do.

You wouldn’t use this build or any variation of it in PvE at all, ever. It would be an absolutely horrific choice.

PvP/WvW however could definitely benefit from it. It’s a very interesting build for those game types.

WilnerGW.3275:

Fay.2357:

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

Thats weird cuz my ‘poor play’ doesnt punish me against anothers professions. Of course i get trouble with thiefs chasing me simetimes, but tbh i can deal with it most of times. But, against mesmers… lol

Your poor play absolutely punishes you against any other profession that attempts to interrupt heals. The key is that mesmers punish you more. Want to know why?

Because interrupts and associated punishing effects are one of the main themes that Anet has consistently attempted to work into mesmer.

You just don’t like being punished for playing poorly. That’s ok, nobody likes being punished. Complaining about being punished for poor play is simply foolish though.

zexion.5842:

Fay.2357:

When those runes were released, I did a test with ele on-aura traits to see if chaos armor procced them when they blasted/leaped through a field. It didn’t. Have you actually gotten the runes and tested this theory?

They seemed to work unless I’m reading tool tips wrong. Wiki says they also effect chaos armor

Seemed to work? If you have the runes, this is a very simple test: Apply chaos armor —> did you receive swiftness?

When those runes were released, I did a test with ele on-aura traits to see if chaos armor procced them when they blasted/leaped through a field. It didn’t. Have you actually gotten the runes and tested this theory?

WilnerGW.3275:

Mak.2657:

WilnerGW.3275
Power ranger or necro?
Probably not a power ranger – any decent heal themselves in stealth. Thus necro?
Use LoS.
Other classes not even using interruptible healing skills or do it in stealth too (mesmer). Even guardian Litany of wrath is non interraptible now (cast time reduced from 3/4 to 1/4).

Yep, this is in an ideal cenario. But in team fights sometimes u alrdy used ur CDs to stay alive or cant use LOS due ur actual position, then u try to heal urself…LOL 15 secs CD in ur face. This is totally game-changing

Yes im power ranger, but u cant forget that good mesmers use Illusionary Wave to interrupt, no matter if ur in stealth or not, using LOS or not.

Ever consider the possibility that getting your heal interrupted is simply the result of your poor play being punished? If you’re not considering the fact that you’ll need a way to protect your heal cast, then you’re playing poorly and deserve to be punished for it. Learn to consider that strategy when you enter a fight, play smart to counter it, and you’ll be rewarded by a successful heal.

zapv.8051:

Currently, the class is too faceroll. Not against good players who can dodge, but the other 95% of the time.

/facepalm

Let me just translate this statement for you real quick:

“Currently, Mesmer is able to faceroll bad players that don’t know how to dodge. For some unfathomable reason, I find this to be a problem”

The absurdity of this complaint is just off the charts. Not even going to elaborate on why, it should be self-evident.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Fay.2357:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Ah yes, true .. Sorry! PVE for sure ele with FGS is much higher DPS.

Ele doing nothing but pressing 2 and 1 while in staff fire does more damage than Mesmer could hope to do even under perfectly ideal conditions. FGS has nothing to do with it.

This is pretty much any class besides warrior w/ gs though, im not sure the answer is buffing mesmer dmg more so nerfing/tuning down ele dmg in s/f – staff variants. Of course you kill builds in pvp doing so, which is what the game is balanced off of usually. How would you approach it?

Well, just read the rest of the thread we’re currently in…

The Mesmer niche is in providing (or is at least supposed to be) unique utility and mechanics to a group, not raw dps like an ele. The problem is that the tempest elite along with the absurd guardian shout seem to be rather significantly stepping on the mesmer’s toes for their role in a party.

blitzkrieg.2451:

Ah yes, true .. Sorry! PVE for sure ele with FGS is much higher DPS.

Ele doing nothing but pressing 2 and 1 while in staff fire does more damage than Mesmer could hope to do even under perfectly ideal conditions. FGS has nothing to do with it.

blitzkrieg.2451:

“With the elementalist and very likely the tempest as well, having superior dps to mesmer and chronomancer”

Are you sure? mesmer has much higher burst dps now by alot – this includes burning speed + fire grab doesn’t come close to a mesmer shatter combo and esp with stun and when comparing lightning whip (highest auto dps) to gs autos mesmer GS is higher , as well as sword. I would say ele has more control and mobility though in those element sets.

I edited this because I was comparing cele ele dps to zerker mesmer dps and of course, zerker mesmer will have more obviously because of this. Zerker ele still falls short but not by much and you couldn’t run zerker ele anyway because you have no survivability with zerker as an ele compared to mesmers being able to run zerker amulet.

This was done in PvP.

This is discussing from a PvE point of view. Dps is not burst, and burst is totally irrelevant in PvE. But even then, fresh air ele has higher potential burst than standard shatter Mesmer does, since mobs sit still and don’t move out of things like churning earth and dragon’s tooth.

Attempting to argue that Mesmer dps is even in the same realm as ele dps is the height of foolishness. Nobody with more than a day of experience with PvE groups disputes the absolute superiority of ele dps, which is why this discussion is about the potential utility that tempest is getting.

DHawk.2687:

Sunflowers.1729:

DHawk.2687:

Sunflowers.1729:

I don’t know what kind of thieves you’ve been fighting who don’t have a million different instant ways to get behind you to backstab.

Edit: As a Thief player myself stealth has very little counterplay. And where’s the counterplay to our spammable teleports? Or instant get-out-of-any-trouble Shadowstep? There isn’t either. So….yeah.

spamable teleports xD all together we have shortbow, which you don’t use in a fight to get behind the enemy, the Shadowstep, Steal, Infiltrators signet, Sword 2# which doesn’t really matter since sword is somewhat dead, and dp #3 which won’t help if you are stealthed
sounds like a lot but they all have a lot of cd/ini cost
a port is a port, none of them are counterable, ele has a port, necro kinda does, guard, mesmer, etc
big deal
but the fact that except for Mass Invis every stealth of the mesmer is insta cast, the only one the thief has is blinding powder. That gives the mesmer an unfair advantage for some ppl, since it is impossible to counter the instacast, unless you wildly predict it’s coming, which won’t work every time, as you might know

I’m not riding the Mesmer is so op train pls nerf, I’m just trying to point out that the teleport argument is irrelevant to the comparison of stealth

DP3 doesn’t help you when stealthed? Shows how much you know.

You can chain DP3 into backstab, from stealth.

no kitten, but not every thief knows how to chain, the simple CnD F1 Backstab combo on DD is too hard for most of the thieves i know

but that, as i said before, isn’t the point of my post

Then you’re apparently basing your arguments off a class of players far too unskilled to have a chance of pulling off any sort of burst either on Mesmer or thief. If pressing 3 and then 1 real quick is too hard, how could they possibly hope to press MoD, then MB, then dodge, then MW, then MS?

It would be quite difficult to calculate the effect of the fury boost exactly, but a reasonable approximation is to say that the mind wrack hits are affected by that fury, while the mirror blade hits aren’t.

In answer to your question specifically, applied fury will affect mind wrack a from clones that are still running to their target. The clones themselves are just the visual indicator of an impending attack, but the attack is executed and calculated at the moment of impact.

Math looks solid. One thing to note is that post-patch burst gets fury after the first couple of hits, boosting your crit chance significantly.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Oh man Ross, I was just about to go in.

Instead, all I’ll say is an idea for alacrity I’ve been toying with is:

F5 -> Mimic+AlacrityWell -> AlacrityWell (F5) Mimic+AlacrityWell -> AlacrityWell

And the 12s of alacrity (not including shield phantasm, the fact that f5 and all other shatters grant 1s alacrity, OR the 33% alacrity boost trait) would of course… Recharge my AlacrityWell.

Well, it would certainly help, but iirc the alacrity well has a 40s cooldown. 12s of alacrity, assume another couple seconds here and there for 15s, then 33% increase gets you to 20s total. In those 20 seconds, the well will cool down by roughly (ish, hard to say until we get our hands on alacrity itself and test it) 32 seconds, leaving a total cooldown on that well of 28 seconds, and a cooldown on that entire combo of ~50ish seconds.

Altogether, pretty decent, but very much a 1-off combo, as would any sort of quadruple-tap combo would be. In order to get that you’re losing out on an additional utility you could be getting, like another well or a stunbreak or something.

nearlight.3064:

when you were smart about when and where to do it?

Aka, in stealth and off to the side. Eles generally play right in the middle, and don’t have stealth. They have stability of course, but that’s limited.

Iris Ng.9845:

Only 25k? Mine hit 32k-38k on Teq. They hit hard, but slow and almost only effective on immovable targets.

Totally doesn’t count on Teq if you hit him during the laser.

phokus.8934:

AlphatheWhite.9351:

I’m looking forward to running an interrupt build against some tempests.

Power block + Magic Bullet > Overload

With them getting Defiance bar while in Earth, that may prove difficult. But we’ll see more on how it works this week.

As I understood it from what the blurb said, that defiance bar was only while channeling the earth overload.

MrForz.1953:

Situations.2416:

Please OP , you know exactly what you’re doing making this post and wording it the way you did. It’s a very passively troll way of saying mesmers are OP now and you have an easy time killing people on it now.

It’s literally basically another way of putting what you wrote, and there have been countless posts in the mesmer forums doing the exact same thing and how they’re swapping classes now because it’s wayyyyy tooooo easy only you tried not coming off as trolly as most of them.

This entire post was bait for complaints.

I’ve once complained on the same manner when people started to discover that bunker engies were really insane at a time, to the point that you’d see those who didn’t even want to glance at the class since the beginning being like “Oh I’ve always wanted to play Engi anyways it’s going to be my main from now on!”, and the strength of the builds themselves got them to attempt to step on my toes.

The thing is, give those FotMers enough time to practice with their cheesy stuff and they’ll eventually learn. Granted they won’t ever reach your level of knowledge with all the builds, combinations, tricks, gameplay bonuses, fun facts, details. But it’s only a matter of time before they catch up to you on the build and stuff they’re investing in. For some, it feels unfair, especially when you come to a point where luck gets in the equation.

The rant from the OP can definitely be legit.

Except that luck only legitimately comes into the equation in a fight between players of very similar skill level. By complaining about how people are ‘just getting lucky and beating me’, the OP is effectively just complaining about how he doesn’t like that seemingly newer players are as good as he is. It’s a cheap way of trying to hide a complaint about not being as skilled as new players behind a front of “comments about the patch”.

DoomKnightMax.6592:

Again this post wasn’t to complain, but rather to express what I personally felt after the patch.

And yet, the entire post ended up as a big complaint. Funny how that happens…

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Now an interesting question is if the signet trait is worth it over something like Temporal Enchanter and the ability to share resistance alongside signet of inspiration. I personally haven’t done enough tests to see.

Unlikely, since in that build you really can’t take more than one glamour. Also, since the duration of the resistance is so low, you’re not going to get much benefit from boon sharing it.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Considering your boonshare on phant summon, is signit of inspiration really necessary? +10% boon duration, random boon every 10s, but the boon sharing part? Is the build significantly weaker without it? Or weaker vs alternative utilities?

Well, the signet objectively doubles your boonshare output, along with giving you a way to boonshare that is directly controlled, and not tied to other skills.