Guild Wars 2

Kam.4092:

Wintermute.5408:

Well, let’s see. Scourge offers:

Barrier – not wanted
Strength – heavily contested
Healing – lol.

Barrier still hasn’t been tested yet in Raids, or the new Raid. Saying it’s not wanted is speaking too soon.

It would only be useful if some specific challenge mode disables or heavily impacts healing somehow. Outside of that it’s completely worthless.

Grieving should be directly better than sinister, but it’ll be a tossup with viper that depends on the amount of innate condition duration the class gets. Mirage will get a free 20% at least, but I’m not sure where the breakpoint will be for amounts of griever vs viper.

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Durzlla has got to be the only person who still believes that elite specs aren’t upgrades to the core class.

Notice how he doesn’t go around to other class forums and ask for other elite specs to be brought down, he just sits here and insists that the one elite spec weaker then the core spec is fine.

I don’t go around to other class forums period, and regardless I’ve said the tier 1 elite specs have been too strong since they came out.

Yes, well that ship sailed about 2 years ago didn’t it. Elite specs are a hard upgrade in almost all situations, this is not a debatable point. Whether Anet originally intended this or not no longer matters. The reality of what exists in the game is what matters.

Heartpains.7312:

Hey, I used to play mantra power build but sure after the lovely mantras changes, the build became so great that it is unplayable.

…what?

This is pretty normal. Almost 100% of changes to skills do not end up changing the water version too for at least several patches.

Durzlla.6295:

Levetty.1279:

Mercurias.1826:

I…Always just sustained illusions when I needed them sustained and shatters them when I wanted to shatter, since it isn’t hard to put up clones to fill the set while waiting for phantasms to recharge. I never got the sense of contradiction people are discussing.

I hate when people who obviously don’t play Mesmer come here to try and say everything is fine.

Yeah just use clones to fill up the slots while you wait for the massive cooldowns, that will help your damage.

Thief forums are over that way.

He didn’t say he used clones for his damage, he said he spawned clones while waiting for phantasms, which is hardly an uncommon thing to do, especially if you’re running dueling since your illusions apply bleed, and 0 condi bleed damage is better than no damage.

Are you actually implying that clone bleed damage in a power build is a reasonable solution for the destructive interaction between phantasms and shattering? I’m disappointed, I thought you were better than that.

mortrialus.3062:

Mastering focus is one of the signs of a great mesmer. It’s an incredible weapon, especially in PvE.

It’s not exactly a complex weapon to use in PvE now that the pull is a simple central point pull. Press 4 near some mobs, press it again. Press 5. Congrats, you’ve mastered pve focus.

I mean, it’s fine I suppose. God-tier is certainly pushing things. Maybe if stability didn’t exist…

Durzlla.6295:

Literally my only complaints with Mirage are that mirrors don’t persist long enough in the world, and that infinite horizon feels mandatory.

Idk why so many of you seem to be under the impression Mirage is just completely worthless and unusable, it seemed very solid to me, just different due to the dodge mechanic.

The problems with mirage:

• All ambush skills except for sword are utterly abysmal.
• The mirror mechanic is fundamentally flawed. Who wants to go chasing their dodges around the map? Nobody, that’s who.
• The axe skills are weak, buggy, and clunky
• The deception utilities are largely weak and clunky
• At least 1 trait at every level is utter garbage

Mikkel.8427:

Curunen.8729:

Mikkel.8427:

I really don’t understand why people think the scepter ambush is even good… I thought it was one of the worst.

1) Root
2) Half duration condi from clones
3) Applies confusion OR torment per hit… I think a lot of people are misreading the tooltip.
4) Outside of the ambush attack, scepter clones apply the least condi pressure out of all our clones. Every other weapon’s clone stacks more bleeds traited with sharper images and the small amt of torment Scepter cones apply does not make up for this.
5) Long channel time
6) Root (worth mentioning twice)

Don’t forget single target as well.

Yeah I actually prefer axe ambush when traited (a lot of phantasmal axes flying around) and staff ambush.

That’s right!

I also forgot its reflect-able AND I don’t know if anyone noticed this… but you can also just wiggle side to side and the whole thing misses you.

Axe, staff, and scepter all have reflectable ambush attacks. It’s a bit of a problem.

Petuleme Igeebobo.7329:

I was thinking about Phantasmal Disenchanter as a skill. Tool tip says you get 4 bounces on 5 players. I’m just trying to figure out how many boons will it strip total per person. Also, which clones get replaced. I don’t want the disenchater clone to be replaces by my auto attack clone from my sceptor. I use sceptor/torch and staff.

The scepter autoattack will never replace a phantasm with a clone, it will inflict torment instead. However, all other skills that summon clones will replace the oldest phantasm if you have 3 phantasms out.

Zenith.7301:

Mikkel.8427:

I have viewed several of his ‘introduction’ videos. His focus in all of them has been on the positive aspects of each of the elites. He’ll skim over or briefly mention things he considers or has heard are flaws, but that’s just his style.

If you want to hear an anti-mirage rant, you can always watch Helseth’s review-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d0kcm5l1kg

It’s not like he’ll get to keep Partnership programs with Anet if he isn’t their PR mouthpiece.

Look at what happened to the one guy that made a video discussing how awful and dishonest they were about the legendary armor. WP knows who pays his bills.

Also you obviously need to actually hit the target, it doesn’t count if they dodge it or if you’re out of range or blocked LoS.

Cal Cohen.3527:

Nocta.5274:

Cal Cohen.3527:

Loop.8106:

Cal Cohen.3527:

Loop.8106:

Apparently placements doesnt count leavers. Had a fantastic 3v5 game from start to finish that still counted towards a loss.

The game still shows as a loss in the UI but your rating is unaffected.

I did get an extra loss on the placement UI and it did count towards the 10 games.

Right. The UI shows the game as a loss, but your rating was unaffected. Usually when a teammate leaves the match you see the 0 for your rating change after the game ends. During placements your rating isn’t visible yet so you don’t see the 0, but that same result happens.

Well if it works like that you also do your placements match over 9 games only, which will place you lower than you could have been.

All aspects of rating (including deviation and volatility) are unaffected by a forfeit (4v5). If you get a forfeit during placements, your first game after will essentially have the same behavior as the 10th placement game except that the rating delta will be visible.

To clarify this: placement games is just a special name given to the first 10 matches of the season where your rating is hidden. They’re not doing special placement procedures or calculations, it’s simply to allow a reasonable amount of games so that your rating change stops swinging wildly before you can see it.

What if mirrors had a similar function to gangplanks barrels in LoL? Set up mirrors in an area during a fight and then use a shatter to detonate all of them with specific effects.

People aren’t complaining because mirage isn’t chrono. People are complaining because there’s almost nothing that mirage can do that chrono can’t do better…and it’s chrono.

Sodeni.6041:

By the way, you should make a threat about the mirage’s design in general. I would like to mention the bad implementation and the design flaws of this spec

Try and put that sort of thing into the PvP, PvE, or WvW feedback threads. General feedback like that is always more useful when it’s discussed in the context of actual gameplay.

For example: I hate mirage because it relies on clones.

That’s less useful than: I hate mirage reliance on clones because in WvW group fights illusions are rarely something that can be relied upon, and this negatively impacts the class effectiveness.

Ok, last one! Please post feedback relevant to mirage PvE performance here. I’ll try to keep the op updated to reflect the general thoughts posted on this thread.

Please post feedback relevant to mirage PvP performance in this thread. I’ll try to keep the op updated with the general thoughts that are posted here.

Please post feedback relevant to mirage WvW performance in this thread. I’ll try to keep the op updated to reflect the general thoughts that get posted here.

Please post feedback regarding the mirage traits in this thread. As with the others, I’ll try and keep the op updated to reflect the thoughts posted on this thread.

Please post feedback regarding the Mirage utilities, the Mirage Cloak mechanic, and the mirror mechanic in this thread. I’ll try and edit the OP regularly to keep a compilation of thoughts updated.

Let’s see how well this works. Somebody mentioned that the feedback threads are a mess, so I’ll go ahead and make some more organized ones. Hopefully this can help make the feedback more readable. I’ll try and edit the OP regularly to get a decent compilation of the thoughts posted on the thread.

Please list feedback regarding axe skills and ambush skills in this thread.

Axe Skills

Auto Chain

• Generally regarded as too weak
• Possible buff options
  • Buff condition intensity
  • Buff power coefficients
  • Buff action speed
• Possible issue with sound effects of traited axes

Skill 2

• Seems to be a bit mechanically clunky due to low activation speed
• Needs some form of built-in defense
  • .5s-.75s evade frame
• The clone generation mechanic is highly unreliable
  • Low range and delay makes it easy for enemies to accidentally avoid the mirage
• Skill is not affected by Illusionist’s Celerity

Skill 3

Ambush Skills

Axe

Sword

Staff

Greatsword

Scepter

Menaka.5092:

@Fay
I was hoping you would prove me wrong…

I re-created my demo Mirage three times, each time trying to give it another go with a fresh mind, but as it is now and for what I can imagine WvW will be after the release, I can’t think of any role viable for it in large scale fights…

I agree with your suggestions to make Mirage at least “playable”, but I’m not sure if it would become “desiderable”, after testing Scourge and from what I’ve seen of Firebrand….

I was hoping too. I was really excited to play it even after talking with you ingame, but the actual play doesn’t lie. In fights where I performed well (read: didn’t have half my damage eaten by projectile hate) I barely squeaked out higher DPS than an apothecary scourge that was also farting out 6k barriers throughout our fights. It was…disappointing to say the least.

nothelseth.4621:

To make it clear, frostballs current idea of mirage is the following

Krait runes for jaunt
ineptitude+blind on shatter
signet of midnight
axe

Jaunt on target, spam every single shatter, get the elite proc and get a massive condi spike. Playing this as a silly thief +1er

Cool in theory. In practice 1 well of eternity, 1 astral form, 1 leadership rune proc and all of your cds and burst is gone. Less effective than a thief by x100. Garbage in a teamfight. Inferior 1v1 to chrono, can’t hold a fight for its life, garbage 2v2, etc

Frostball has literally for years been the kid who always tries to refuse what everyone else does and do ‘’his own thing’’ and insist that it’s better. This is the person who plays the inspiration build with carrion and played bunker mesmer with the damage well.

Fantastic pvper, one of the best mesmers in the game by far but also someone who has historically ALWAYS been a contrarian who wants to be cool and stand out by never agreeing with what’s actually true.

Also, your build is bad lmao

Yep. Exactly what I said it was in my earlier post and has exactly all the problems I detailed.

Fixing forum bugs after 5 years is hard, mmmk?

Me Games Ma.8426:

Fay.2357:

Lastly, you’re burning all your defensive cooldowns on offense, which is obviously a risky proposition.

I specifically said that I was not doing that.

Ok, that’s fair…but also heavily limits your offensive options.

Me Games Ma.8426:

I’ve actually been using the build more around shatters and the axe skills than ambushes. I’ve been using Staff because of its defensive capabilities and because I’ve been using its ambush primarily to stack up might whenever I need to dodge. I have tried using the other grandmaster traits instead of IH but I do have enough stunbreak/cleanse and the extra condiduration didn’t feel worth it even if on paper it should be better.

Right, so the problem I’m seeing here is the really limited illusion generation vs a competent opponent and the awkward and broken mechanics of the axe skills. Axe 2 is pretty clunky and requires very close range, but axe doesn’t have a good gap closer because axe 3 is just non-functional any time you’re fighting on terrain that isn’t flat. If the stars line up and you’re fighting a low mobility target on a relatively flat area, it’ll work well. Otherwise…not so much.

Me Games Ma.8426:

I must say that I have been quite successful on mirage as well but in WvW roaming. I was also playing a burst build. I used Axe+Torch/Staff and went Illusion332Inspiration221Mirage231. I was using MoR, SoM, Blink, MoR, Jaunt (Carrion Armor with Rune of the Berserker/ Sinister Rest 2x Sigil of Energy 2x Sigil of Geomancy)

From what I understand is that most people use their dodges offensively to apply more pressure via ambushes. I suppose the right moment to use your dodge is when you can profit in both pressure and evading. I personally find that quite hard to achieve on any weapon other than staff and axe.

I think where mirage shines is if you are tanky enough to survive quite a while without gettting bursted down. I’ve had that problem on Friday a lot when I tried berserker/viper/sinsister only builds. These didn’t work at all!

It’s very possible to do heavy offensive burst and blow unsuspecting people up with mirage…but that’s nothing new. You can do that with every breed of mesmer in a decent variety of ways. However, the mirage method is a lot more susceptible to failure. You’re using infinite horizon, relying heavily on clones for that burst…but the only skill that can reliably create a clone is phase retreat. If you gave a kiting enemy, axe 2 won’t activate, so good luck keeping clones up vs someone evasive. Same deal vs heavy AOE damage, clones will squish faster than you can create them. Also, almost all of your burst is projectile based. Both the staff and axe ambush attacks are projectiles, so the entire concept of the build can be nullified by any projectile denial. Lastly, you’re burning all your defensive cooldowns on offense, which is obviously a risky proposition.

Compare this to power shatter burst that is mechanically exacting, but instantly impactful if executed properly. Compare that to chrono condie shatter where you have a variety of ways to generate all your resources while still maintaining good defensive options.

Nobody is saying that you can’t play mirage or that mirage is incapable of burst. It’s simply worse at everything than chrono. I also would like to draw attention to the fact that an entire base mechanic of mirage, the mirrors, is absolutely awful and everyone has been trying to pretend that it doesn’t exist.

Frostball.9108:

Also id like to mention that my current build is only the strongest build i have yet to see myself. Im not saying it is the strongest build possible or it is what everyone will play in the future. While my build might be strong, we have only had a few days to look at these things and its most likely that its possible to even make a much better mirage build.

My main point is that in the games current state it will be a better option than chronomancer.

It’s not like gw2 is a complex game with complex mechanical interactions. There’s not that many ways to build a character, especially with the obvious restrictions of being a condie build that bursts without relying on clones. You can burst with shatters, you can burst with weapon skills, you can burst with ambush skills. That’s literally it. All of those methods have downsides, and chrono is far better at shatter bursting.

I think you’re just afraid to post the build because then people would see how not impressive the burst actually is. There’s no shame in being wrong you know, it’s ok.

Frostball.9108:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Frostball.9108:

musu.9205:

Frostball.9108:

Refia Montes.3205:

Frostball.9108:

Levetty.1279:

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

Except Condi Chrono can do that too. With Moa, CS split condi burst it’s possible.

I said without trouble. And with chrono youre not going to be able to survive nearly as well.

for condi burst we could agree , but clone still dies easily for that happens , and defense from mirage is worse than chrono .

maybe you could link us your build ?

Clones dying easily doesnt matter, this is a burst build that doesnt rely on clones being alive for you. The defense for mirage can be upped as well which makes it have more defense and arguably still more damage than chrono. However i think the burst version is much better.

It’s a butst build… centered around clone ambush. Clones dying easily DOES matter quite a bit actually. Everything mirage can do I can do better on Chrono. Sadly Mirage just wasn’t fleshed out like it should have been. Axe is clunky and does poor damage, ambush skills should be baseline, the concept of mirage mirrors is a joke when they span far away with a short time frame to get to them. Can you get ridiculous stacks? Sure on a golem or a noob that stands still in hotjoin. Other than that the apex needs a fairly extensive rework

No, its not. If you cant do anything better on mirage you should look into getting some new build ideas going or just getting used to the playstyle.

Not relying on clones staying alive limits the options pretty significantly. You’re probably using the dueling blinds + confusion conversion along with torment and amped torch burns from illusions.

This works for a burst..sorta. You can combo axe 3 or scepter 3 with spamming a few shatters, mirage advance thingy, and torch skills to get a nice condition burst. However, it wastes a bunch of cooldowns to achieve, doesn’t actually apply significant cover conditions, and is extremely prone to pathing bugs if you’re using axe 3 for this.

Additionally, you don’t have inspiration, so you’ve got very limited condition cleanse that will rely on the mantra and jaunt, both with their own issues. You have extremely limited boonstrip, so good luck fighting classes with good boon sustain, stab, resistance, etc. You have very limited cc options, so you’re not really useful in fights for controlling downed targets.

Let’s talk about what mesmer does in sPvP. Usually you’re taking the role of the roaming +1 class with a side dish of map control through portal and single target lockdown with moa. As mirage, you can still take portal, but you’re a far weaker +1 due to the utter lack of cc and boon strip. You can still moa, but without CS it ends up in a very long cooldown. You’re much easier for the enemy group to lock down and destroy without the defense of shield, so expect to be targeted and trained down immediately every fight.

Ultimately it’s basically like helseth said in his thread: Mirage does everything worse than chrono, and is clunky and awkward to play as well.

Frostball.9108:

Levetty.1279:

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

What cover conditions? Torment and bleed? As if we didn’t do that already… Mirage can’t do anything that chrono can’t do except illusion retarget gimmicks.

Azukas.1426:

FJSAMA.2867:

Following your logic bunker mesmer shouldnt be balanced mid season and instead it should had been given time for people ro adpat on it, looking for counters.
Cause bunker mesmer was exacly this. Mesmer adapting to the meta. People that couldnt do kitten with their mesmer because power shatter lost all his dmg and gimmick with pb, mirror blade bounce, PU, etc nerfs and couldnt sustain in a meta of bruisers.. Rev stackings all over, eles engies you name it.
Instead of going to qq all over forums and reddit like most does and since it doesnt work for mesmer, they come up with totally new build and role.

Its funny your biased logic only works one way.

There were changes made to chrono during the BWE’s before HoT released. There were players who complained about chrono being weak. The actuality of The chrono was it was extremely overpowered and it wasn’t fully realized until after release.

The chrono bunker confirms my stance that we need to wait and see what happens on release.

Thank you

I created and was playing chronobunker with supcutie in the 2nd beta weekend for HoT. This wasn’t something that blindsided everybody at release. Just because you didn’t figure it out until it appeared in metabattle doesn’t mean other people hadn’t either.

I still dislike clone death traits. I’d much rather have an elite spec mechanic something along the lines of…

Your illusion skills no longer summon illusions but provide a temporary boost or effect depending on their original function. iLeap becomes a on-target teleport, phantasms become skills that the mesmer actually uses i.e. spinning through mobs with GS, leaping attack with sword, etc. Skills that summon illusions would fill up the illusion counter for a short time (3-10 seconds? Idk) and you could then use modified shatters with an amped effect depending on the current illusion counter.

I love the feel and idea of mesmer but I hate the extreme limitations of the illusion mechanic.

pinkglow.3429:

Great feedback
You seem quite good at mesmer, if one wanted to play mirage in wvwvw what gear/runes and weapons would you suggest?

Since trailblazer and dire works for crono, same gear could work for mirage? And then keep staff as weapon, and get sword/shield and axe/torch? A kitteneaper way and then it is possible to swap between both specs?
But I feel mirage is much more squishy, so perhaps other runes are needed?
Seems tricky to get any information about what people think about it, so perhaps you can help?=)

Are you thinking for roaming or for an organized group composition?

Azukas.1426:

How many of the last elite specs were complained about being pure trash only to take longer to find the true capabilities of the spec?

None actually, we pretty much knew their power levels quite accurately from about 3 hours past release.

You have to remember, we’re not coming at this from the perspective of fresh players exploring a new game like we were at the beginning. We already know the interactions of traits, we know the flexibility of builds, we know how things work together. It’s not rocket science to see that Mirage is simply bad.

Traits

Minor Traits
Nomad’s Endurance:This is fine, but could do with a boost to vigor effectiveness.
Speed of Sand: This really needs to last longer. At least 1.5s is what would make up for not having a mobile dodge.

Adept Traits

Self-Deception: This trait is extremely poor. The clone generation condition is extremely fragile and easily disrupted. Additionally, it doesn’t actually boost deception skills in a notable way. This should either lower the cooldown, add another condition/confusion stack, or both.

Renewing Oasis: This is just generally underwhelming. The condition duration reduction is not very strong unless you invest super heavily into it with food, runes, light aura, etc. On its own it’s quite weak. This would be more worth taking if

Riddle of Sand: This is a good trait.

Master Traits

Reformed Mirage Mirror: This trait is very poor. The mirage mirror mechanic is already clunky, and this puts additional layers of RNG and loss of control in front of it. In order for this to be useful, it would to summon the mirror at your location and have a cd of at least 15s or less.

Mirage Mantle: This is ok, but underwhelming. A base duration of 3s would make this more worthwhile.

Mirrored Axes: This is a solid trait.

Grandmaster Traits

Infinite Horizon: This interesting trait really should be baseline. The ambush skills are very weak, and it looks like they were designed with this trait in mind. Either make this trait baseline or the ambush skills need to be drastically more powerful.

Elusive Mind: This trait is….strong, but balanced in the current crazy amount of power creep.

Dune Cloak: This trait is decent, but a bit underwhelming. A larger radius and a bit more potency, perhaps additional torment, would make this feel better.

Overall Feel

The overall feel of Mirage is….okish. 4/10 at best. It has a lot of clunky mechanics, a lot of really bad traits, and overall just doesn’t really feel smooth to play. The mechanics don’t combo well with any other classes and overall seem more like gimmicks than actual usable mechanics.

Axe Skills

Autoattack: The auto is rather weak. The power coefficients are very low and the conditions it applies are ok but not great. The third skill in the chain is quite good, but it takes a while to get there, especially with all the other skills you need to be using.

Suggestion: The power coefficients here need to be increased. The action speed of the attacks should probably be boosted slightly, and the conditions should be increased either in duration or potency.

Axe 2: This skill feels really clunky. It feels like it should have an evade…but has no evade, so you’ll take a lot of damage from this skill if you’re not careful. The dps it does is reasonable for a fairly spammy skill, but the slow animation combined with locked in movement and no evade just makes it very unsatisfying to use.

Suggestion: This skill requires either an evade frame while using it or a much much faster animation.

Axe 3: This skill is just flat out non-functional. On a featureless flat plain it works great, but any sort of terrain will completely ruin it. The initial leap backwards has a wonderful habit of knocking you off of whatever you’re standing on, and the secondary leap forwards will usually just faceplant you into a wall and miss the target. On top of that, it doesn’t even have any aoe component, so you’re getting a really janky leap that doesn’t work for the possible reward of a single target hit of confusion.

Suggestion: This skill needs to get an aoe component to the attack. Additionally, the leap forwards needs to be a proper blink, otherwise it will never function. Remember old iLeap? Yeah, that’s what’s happening here.

Heal and Utilities

Heal: It’s ok. It heals for a decent amount and provides vigor…but it’s on a very long cooldown. This would be more reasonable at a 20s or 25s cooldown, but 30s is really a stretch.

Suggestion: Lower the cooldown to 20 seconds to make this a viable heal skill.

Illusionary Ambush: See axe 3.

Mirage Advance: The cast time on this skill makes it feel really clunky. This would be reasonable with a .25s cast time, maaaybe a .5s cast time, but .75 seconds for a shadowstep is really odd. Additionally, not being able to use it when out of range or out of LoS makes it essentially unusable in many situations.

Suggestion: Allow the skill to be used while out of range and out of LoS. Additionally, lower the cast time to .25 or .5s.

Sand Through Glass: This is ok, it’s a 30s stunbreak. It’s not great, the mirror is a bit clunky of a mechanic, and if I’m putting a 30s stunbreak on my bar, it’s going to be blink instead.

Suggestion: Lower the cooldown to 20s to make this competitive with blink.

Crystal Sands: This skill is really underwhelming. The little bolts do very weak damage and have extremely poor coverage. The reward for properly placing it and getting a shotgun at the center is just really poor. Additionally, almost any terrain will totally brick this skill and make the little bolts not work at all.

Suggestion: Increase the number of bolts from 6 to 12. This increases the coverage and boosts the overall utility and reward for proper placement. Additionally, figure out how to fix this skill when it’s used on terrain.

Jaunt: The range on this skill feels really really bad. 400 is so short it’s nearly unusable. If this were a direction based dash, 400 range might be reasonable (but still short), however as a gtaoe skill, this absolutely requires at least 600 or 700 range to feel anything close to ok. The radius, damage, confusion, etc are all fine, the range is what makes this horrid.

Suggestion: Boost the range to 600-700.

Ambush Attacks

Axe: This is ok, but having all the axes be projectiles basically makes it unusable in WvW.

Suggestion: Make the axes unblockable.

Sword: This is good, but buggy. The sword clones don’t proc interrupt traits, so this needs to be fixed.

Scepter: This is insanely clunky. The blink is very short range, and then it forces you to stand still for a full 1.5 seconds. It’s extremely vulnerable and extremely lackluster for how long it takes to execute.

Suggestion: Allow movement while channeling the orbs and increase the amount of conditions they apply.

Staff: Again a clunky projectile. This is totally useless in WvW because of how narrow the hitbox is, how awkward the targeting is…and it’s a projectile.

Suggestion: Make this a wave attack in front of the staff instead of a traveling projectile. This will make it an actually solid area attack instead of what it is now.

Greatsword: This attack is really bad. I’m not sure what to say.

Suggestion: Rethink this one from the ground up please.

musu.9205:

meanwhile in pvp map chat : mirages have 90% evading frame
me : thats impossible
people : link the duel line trait which gives vigor on crit , see vigor , more dodge

be ready to get nerfed from trash tier guys . coz once you open map chat you will find there are many people mindlessly followed wp comment : mirage is over tuned

The mesmer problem has always been that it’s very strong against bad players. The mirage mechanics exacerbate this problem. Since the vast majority of players are utter trash in GW2, this leads to predictable complaint issues.

tobascodagama.2961:

90% of HoT, and the LW3 content even more so, is just “(random parts of) the floor is lava”.

Yeah, but you’re supposed to walk out of those, not dodge out of it.

Edit: name a couple specific mobs or encounters where you have this issue and I can tell you how to handle it more appropriately.

Tune in tomorrow to find out!

ButterPeanut.9746:

LOL chill. Made it early so folks see the thread and can give feedback in one place instead of making a ton of unorganized pieces of info…

Except that it’s way more useful to have separate threads for different topics for feedback than having to sort through one huge thread to parse all the different bits. So….yeah, this is pretty useless.

tobascodagama.2961:

The big problem for Mesmers in post-HoT open world content is all the kittening RNG ground-target attacks. Mobs themselves aren’t hard to deal with, but we have no good way to handle the situations where you dodge a telegraph attack or random puddle and another random puddle spawns underneath you while your dodge is on CD. It basically requires us to take Restorative Illusions to sustain through the damage when we take those random hits.

…like what?

Daishi.6027:

Title is pretty much par for the course with this game.

Mirage Thrust is pretty disappointing 3/4 cast for a 1/4 daze and damage similar to our already awful auto attack? Lol okay… Could have been cool with confounding suggestions, but it’s useless with infinite horizon.

Split Surge sitting st 1.2 is awful. It should have been at LEAST 1.9 – 2.2 to be decent. Which is dumb since Eather Barrage is the same channel time, same range, has a defensive blink, applies torment and confusion, and is 2.0

Not that I’m knocking scepter but who thought this is ok for GS? I guess you can argue it can point blank cleave… but a one off point blank cleave for awful damage isn’t worth anything.

Yeah, I’m honestly surprised by how blatantly awful the GS ambush attack is. Anyone with even a basic understanding of mesmer skills or general skill balance can see that immediately.

OriOri.8724:

Fay.2357:

Curunen.8729:

OriOri.8724:

Yea, those sword and GS ambush skills are extremely underwhelming. I get that they want to push us towards a condition build (though I don’t know why), but those skills are not nearly strong enough to be a DPS power spec. And sword’s ambush doesn’t make sense, is each clone going to summon yet another clone when it uses this skill? Will they replace themselves with the new clone? How is that going to work?

That’s a good question – will Sword clones essentially duplicate themselves if Infinite Horizon is traited? At least we’ll know in a couple of days.

Scepter clones don’t pop out new clones. Obviously the sword clones will just leap and daze, they don’t self-multiply unless it’s bugged.

Scepter clones also only use ether bolt, they don’t use teh full chain. So they never use a skill that summons a clone.

The sword ambush skill is unprecedented in that, afaik, its the first skill our clones will ever use that is also supposed to summon another clone. Also, will the clone that we summon with this skill then perform the ambush attack and be summoned with mirage cloak as well?

Unlikely. The trait is probably coded to apply mirage cloak when we gain it, it won’t be continually checking to see if the status exists.

Curunen.8729:

OriOri.8724:

Yea, those sword and GS ambush skills are extremely underwhelming. I get that they want to push us towards a condition build (though I don’t know why), but those skills are not nearly strong enough to be a DPS power spec. And sword’s ambush doesn’t make sense, is each clone going to summon yet another clone when it uses this skill? Will they replace themselves with the new clone? How is that going to work?

That’s a good question – will Sword clones essentially duplicate themselves if Infinite Horizon is traited? At least we’ll know in a couple of days.

Scepter clones don’t pop out new clones. Obviously the sword clones will just leap and daze, they don’t self-multiply unless it’s bugged.

Anthony.7630:

BUt yea the last few fights over the weekend was a zerg of 50 light armor classes most condi.

Sure it was.

Anthony.7630:

and we do gorilla warfare.

Do you now?

Genesis.5169:

PvP must suffer for the sins of PvE i don’t know why anyone is surprised.

wat

The greatsword ambush feels sorta like they just ran out of time and ideas and went “kitten it, let’s just make it the normal GS attack and call it something else”.

Ithilwen.1529:

Fay.2357:

To be fair, quickness is usually a lot more scarce of a boon whereas vigor will be basically 100% uptime no matter what with mirage.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Minor in mirage that gives vigor on shatter, heal that gives vigor, minor in dueling that gives vigor on crit.

To be fair, quickness is usually a lot more scarce of a boon whereas vigor will be basically 100% uptime no matter what with mirage.