Check out the build in my signature. I don’t have any trouble taking damage from zerkers/maurauders. This could partially be because of the high amount of invuln and reflects.
That being said, everyone is dishing out a good amount of damage.
Really, not dying is a function of active defense right now, not passively being able to soak damage. In a tanky rabid condition build, if I eat a full burst from a power mesmer…I die. No ifs, ands, or buts.
All invites sent.
Nephrite, you already have full guild memberships.
Malicious sorcery does not work for attack speed. This is a known bug, and has not been fixed yet.
@Axel: Confusing images got buffed to have a much higher attack speed. Malicious sorcery has no effect on it.
Additionally, you’re completely wrong with how the attack speed on the trait should work. You’re confusing things mightily.
They tweaked how the clone is summoned with the third attack of the chain. This tweak is designed to make it feel better, but will not increase the rate of clone spawning.
With the trait, every attack on the weapon is supposed to execute 15% faster. Obviously, this will cause you to spawn clones 15% faster.
(edited by Fay.2357)
I guess I can finally post my bunker build.
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-RFcZ;1ZUF4127RWV71;9;4TUV;0046158148;4Ukl6R;1rRnCrRnC3i
Completely capable of bunkering 1v3 on a point.
Depending on the situation
temporal enchanter>illusionary inspiration
bountiful disillusionment>chaotic interruption
null field>mantra of concentration>signet of inspirationYou have no stunbreak in that base build. You could certainly take the mantra, but in the build you’ve posted, You would get 100-0 by the first shatter burst mesmer that showed up. Approach in stealth, MoD stun into full burst and you die instantly.
Edit: Even with the mantra, it can be tough to stunbreak in time. I’ve certainly been instagibbed by people a good number of times already, though I’ve been trying to keep a sharp eye on every mesmer in a match now.
distortion. bountiful disillusionment. need I say more?
BD doesn’t break stuns. It can keep you from getting stunned, but as long as the mesmer doesn’t MoD into your 1 stack of stability, they’ll stun you all the same.
Distortion can stop that burst, for sure. Unfortunately, a power mesmer has the option to restealth and burst roughly (realistically) once every 7-10 seconds or so, and distortion is only available once every 50. On top of that, the whole burst executes in <1 second, if they’re good. It’s possible to distortion to avoid that, but it’s not easy.
The only somewhat weird one is the distortion one, since we get it from sword, signets or shatter only… but well….
Sword gives Blur, not Distortion. Functionally, it’s the same, but it won’t count as Distortion.
Blur is evade. Distortion is invulnerability. Functionally they are very different.
I guess I can finally post my bunker build.
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-RFcZ;1ZUF4127RWV71;9;4TUV;0046158148;4Ukl6R;1rRnCrRnC3i
Completely capable of bunkering 1v3 on a point.
Depending on the situation
temporal enchanter>illusionary inspiration
bountiful disillusionment>chaotic interruption
null field>mantra of concentration>signet of inspiration
You have no stunbreak in that base build. You could certainly take the mantra, but in the build you’ve posted, You would get 100-0 by the first shatter burst mesmer that showed up. Approach in stealth, MoD stun into full burst and you die instantly.
Edit: Even with the mantra, it can be tough to stunbreak in time. I’ve certainly been instagibbed by people a good number of times already, though I’ve been trying to keep a sharp eye on every mesmer in a match now.
(edited by Fay.2357)
Yeah, I don’t think anyone could make the argument that the vampiric presence interaction wasn’t really broken.
That being said, I’m viewing this as another temporal curtain situation. Something was acting badly, they slap a bandaid onto it, nerfing the skill enormously…and then it’ll never be fixed properly and always be either useless (this trait) or incredibly aggravating (temporal curtain).
I’ve been bunkering plenty lately. Had a 5 min 1v4 yesterday. It’s doable. I run a condition shatter build with scepter/torch and staff.
Let me take a couple guesses.
You’re running PU, this was in WvW, and the 4 you fought didn’t contain more than 2 total thieves and mesmers.
Bunkers aren’t really a thing in WvW. You’ve got a tanky frontline set, but that’s not quite the same thing as a bunker. Bunker is a PvP term for someone protecting a point.
I don’t get why people get all riled up when someone “claims” a build. Who really cares? Every build now that we’re confined to just 3 trait lines is going to be similar to another build.
Well, you sorta answered your own question.
Specifically though, it’s the rather condescending tone that he uses when talking about how ‘his build is so much better thought out and obviously superior than all the other condie builds’, because it’s not. It’s what everybody else is already using, nothing new, nothing groundbreaking, and definitely nothing obviously superior to all the other ones.
Yeah, I’d go ahead and say that ‘Bunker X’, regardless of class, is not really viable atm, because it’s not truly possible to bunker down against the damage that now appears in PvP.
Yeah, not to rain on your parade, but calling this ‘my build’ is hilariously presumptuous, especially with the comments about how much more thought out this build is than other ones.
This build, with one or two alterations based on weapons used and such, is just the normal PvP condie build that any mesmer running PvP condie uses. It’s not special, it’s not any more well thought out than the others, it’s just…normal with no particularly big changes other than those generosity sigils (which, I’d argue, are a far far far worse choice than energy).
Well, pretty much all the condie ones atm. Ineptitude is pretty key for a lot of them, and being forced to trait specifically to get the IC cooldown would be incredibly damaging.
IC has always been a minor trait, and really belongs there. Suddenly changing it to a major would be bad, similar to how chaotic transference suddenly becoming a major that conflicts with chaotic dampening is very bad.
“Confusing Combatants” as an Illusion Minor would somewhat compensate the “Ineptitude” new placement. But I do see your point.
The things I’m suggesting are PvE focused but we could tweak them to minimize the “strain” on PvP.What do you think of the changes considering just PvE?
PvE they’d be fine, but you can’t ignore half of the game when making changes. A set of traits needs to have both PvP and PvE options.
Currently, illusions GMs lack PvE options because shatters are awful in PvE. Ultimately, shatters need to become less awful in PvE if a lot of this stuff is to make sense at all.
@ Silverkey: While what you say is true, imo, Phantasms also fit any build. More than Healing Prism & Inspiring Distortion.
@Photoloss: The 10% would be for every skill. I feel like the GMs in this line are all very meh for PvE.
@ Fay: First of all…i’m honored by you posting in my thread.
We could move Ineptitude to Master and scrap the “Migraine” one I proposed.
And Illusionist’s Celerity is still there, i just merged it with Phantasmal Haste and made it GM.Btw…what PvP builds do you think the Illusion changes would massacre?
Well, pretty much all the condie ones atm. Ineptitude is pretty key for a lot of them, and being forced to trait specifically to get the IC cooldown would be incredibly damaging.
IC has always been a minor trait, and really belongs there. Suddenly changing it to a major would be bad, similar to how chaotic transference suddenly becoming a major that conflicts with chaotic dampening is very bad.
The illusions changes would absolutely massacre a ton of PvP builds, they’re pretty awful. IC is integral to a lot of builds flowing properly, and ineptitude is a very strong trait right now.
Another QQ thread … There is no other profession forum community that is so extremly scared of tiny nerfs being followed by other tiny nerfs as the mesmer community. So we always agressivly open new threads to show ANet how terribly wrong they are to hope for a solution that will hit in the middle between “buff it” and “nerf it into the ground” to force them to “leave it alone” and achieve balance
In what reality are a 60% nerf to chaotic dampening, a 50% nerf to Maim, and a 10s icd on a trait that does rather low healing ‘tiny nerfs’?
They’re massive nerfs, they’re far more damaging than they should be, and they should be treated with much more care and thought than the current machete balancing approach.
Ok, just did some testing. My Sweet Lily is right that channeled abilities already go onto a full cooldown when interrupted, but I happened to discover something else.
Interrupting the channel of a mantra does not work with power block. The mantra channel will go onto kitten cooldown instead of 15.
Edit: Before someone points out that Initiative is a limiting factor, I mean something like Backstab>CnD>wait for initiative>repeat. Obviously I can’t test if this is possible to sustain indefinitely but you sure can do it several times in a row.
Enough times. Reveal wasn’t always a thing. It was implemented after thieves did just that.
Anet has literally stripped thieves of all decent defensive tools
Stripped thieves of all decent defensive tools? So I’m guessing they’ve removed stealth entirely, shadow refuge, removed the ability to dodge, removed the significant flat damage reduction from stealth…
Oh wait. They didn’t.
let alone reducing their armor and health to lower than any other profession in the game.
Haha, what? Thieves still use medium armor. This means they still have more armor than elementalist, mesmer, and necromancer. Claiming that they reduced thief health is pretty hilarious too. Thief health is, and always has been, equal to elementalist and guardian in the lowest health tier. I’m not entirely sure where you’re getting all this from, but it’s not the same reality that the rest of us live in.
Thieves have NO way to reliably remove conditions in a condition heavy meta.
Yeah, other than removing conditions in stealth, sword 2, shadowstep, pain response, their heals, and evasion to avoid getting the conditions applied.
If they want to have any kind of kitten defense, they have to use EVERY single utility slot to do so, gimping their build entirely.
[citation needed]
Just saying random things doesn’t make them true. If you want people to listen to you, you need to give concrete examples, and actual facts.
You won’t, because there aren’t any, because you’re just conjuring up complaints to try and make a point, but that’s what you’d have to do if you did want people to take you seriously.
Sure, thieves can burst. But so can every other profession after this patch, and at just about the same level of intensity – and if you try to refute that you are delusional. I don’t even play a thief, but I laugh every time I see one because all I have to do is look in its general direction and it dies.
And how is this different from ever? Thieves have always been squishy if they build for burst, and they’ve always been incredibly difficult to pin down if they build for evasion. The only difference now is that mesmers can do burst on par with what thieves can, and you’re scared of it.
Does anyone know for sure that this trait is working as intended? Currently the target player is both dazed and stunned, making it so they literally can’t do anything. Can’t use a stun break due to the daze, and can’t run/dodge due to the stun.
I really have no idea how this bit of misinformation gets propagated. Anyone who has ever actually pvped with their eyes open can tell you that dazes are broken by stunbreakers just like stuns.
My goodness, you must have taken a wrong turn somewhere. The necromancer forums can be found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer
Is this thread a joke? I mean, I’m a Mesmer main and can plainly see thieves were nerfed into the ground and we’re stronger than ever. What are you SERIOUSLY complaining about? Learn to kittening play.
We have lost a child. Can we all please take a moment to mourn.
Go watch Jebro duel thief post patch and realize how kittened and bad at this game you are.
What a shame they clearly don’t balance this game (lol) around top their players. Alas I am not one (with an oceanic ping at least). So feel free to keep embarrassing yourself and taking cheap personal shots. I’m sure I’m not the only one entertained by it.
Actually, they do. All games are balanced around top-tier play. No one is saying this game is balanced, at ALL, right now. But complaining about thieves in their current state is an absolute joke, if you have half a brain you can kill them with one ability.
Also, you initiated the ‘cheap personal shots’ by replying to my post with your idiotic Mariah gif. Keep playing the victim though, moron, I’m sure I’m not the only one entertained by it.
Don’t make me laugh. Balanced around top tier play? In your dreams maybe.
The one singular and consistent theme throughout every decision in this game is that they tend towards making mechanics simpler and less difficult to execute, as well as less punishing for bad play. Aura changes, confusion nerf, retaliation nerfs, healing signet, previous trait changes, the leveling experience, the list goes on and on. The whole ‘oh, new players had trouble understanding (insert incredibly simple thing here), and so it got removed’ sentiment is quite persistently reoccurring in poking fun at Anet changes.
As a side note, if you really think thieves are bad right now, I’d love to hear actual justification as to why instead of just ad hominem garbage.
@Typin
Emotional garbage? His points are maybe slightly exaggerated, but calling them emotional garbage is absurd. What that says to me is that you recognized the validity of his points, couldn’t figure out a way to refute them, and so descended to the sophomoric level of calling them ‘garbage’ in the hopes that everyone else would ignore them.
Allow me to elaborate on your original points a bit.
1.
You claim mesmers can do shatter burst at long range. This is incredibly and intentionally misleading. In a standard quick burst, IP is between a 1.5x and 2x modifier for the total shatter damage. Bursting without IP is not bursting at all.
Additionally, attempting to use mirror blade from long range is usually a losing proposition as it is easy to see and dodge. On top of that, a significant amount of burst comes from the rapid bouncing of mirror blade that is only achievable at point blank range.
Claiming you can shatter burst at range is nothing but absurd nonsense.
2.
Burning cooldowns to attempt cc on a stealthed thief is a best lucky, and at worst capable of losing the fight for you. You can try to predict the location of the thief, but blindly throwing out cc in the hopes that it’ll hit the thief is not a tactic that will enjoy much success against a skilled player.
3.
Backstab always works in the same patterns? That’s absurd nonsense. Backstab is an attack from stealth. There is no tell, and the thief can choose when to use it.
You can attempt to predict when it comes, and you can even get quite good at predicting it. Unfortunately, the thief has the ultimate timing advantage, even now. CnD thieves can restealth on clones with little risk, and d/p thieves can permanently restealth through the combo.
A patient thief will land the backstab, because eventually you’ll run out of active defenses to try and prevent it.
4.
The point made by Caelus here is quite accurate: backstab only reveals if it hits. If it hits, you’re already on the back foot in the fight and need to take some sort of immediate defensive measures.
Additionally, your argument is inherently flawed. If the Mesmer waits until stealth wears off to attack, that means 2 things. First is that it gives the other person a chance to react to the burst. Second is that it makes your burst extremely predictable. By limiting when you attack, it allows your opponents to know when you’re trying to burst simply by the duration of your stealth skills.
A good Mesmer bursts unpredictably, and that means eating a bit of revealed when you do.
Now, I invite you to dismiss my arguments as ‘emotional garbage’, but I think you’ll find that I make a rather compelling logical case that is difficult to write off without making yourself look extremely foolish.
Oh, wow! You know, I considered running with the OH-Sword for the Temporal enchanter/CD build I run. Does the Chaos Armor from the iSwordsman apply to the Mesmer (as far as cooldowns go?)
Casting the swordsman is a leap finisher on the Mesmer, while the swordsman leaps are local to itself.
PU is actually much weaker on a maim shatter build than on a power shatter build. In maim shatter, PU is mostly defense with a tiny bit of offense. In power shatter, PU is offense with a side of defense.
PU allows a power shatter build to carefully set up their stun combo from stealth, ensuring the highest chance of success. While it also allows maim to do a similar thing, maim shatter rarely takes CS, and the burst from maim is not as immediately deadly as the power burst, for obvious reasons.
Tl;dr: PU being the reason for the maim nerf makes zero sense.
If the distortion protected the signet cast itself, it would be completely broken. You’d have a heal with zero counter play, and could take any signet for an instantaneous distortion, one that doesn’t require any foresight to use.
The trait is good as-is.
I was really excited for interrupt mesmer before the patch. I was even excited for condi mesmer. But it seems like people just want to knee-jerk reaction everything and play whack-a-mole with balance. No one ever wants to spend a few days adjusting and learning new builds or tactics. Indignation, incredulity, and willful ignorance permeates the gw2 community.
Thats expected for players though not for the devs to react to it.
That’s exactly my point. The nerfs they’ve done started coming in less than 24 hours of the patch. The players freak out, and the devs jump on it. I can only assume it’s because our class isn’t named “Engineer.”
To be fair, engineers also got hit with a nerf when we did. Any nerfs, regardless of class, are too fast if they’re within 24 hours of patch time.
Yes, illusions use the mesmer condition stats.
Clearly youre a kittenter as I have never heard of you before.
Woah there.
@PyroAthiest
I’m angry that Pyro is advocating nerfs. Sure, you may be a great Mesmer and find the class too easy to play now.
On the other hand, I’m finally having some fun playing shatter. Please don’t advocate nerfs. I think you’ve really lost perspective Pyro.
So uh…wat.
I understand that there are a lot of people who don’t like how I post on the forum. Some of the complaints are legitimate, some are absurd and I laugh at them.
This complaint, however, is unique in that you’re actually complaining that I’m doing something when I’ve been loudly, repeatedly, and with little to no vitriol and displeasure withheld…doing the exact opposite.
This list isn’t meant to replace old standing lists, but for the newly introduced bugs within the trait revamp. We’re complaining about not getting any bug fixes with that last patch, but other classes have maintained a new bug thread in that forum for the devs to view and act on; we have not.
Please post Mesmer bugs to my thread of the same title in the bugs forum. One reason we may not have gotten fixes is the absence of a coherent bug reporting thread over there.
Mesmer bugs:
- Duelists Discipline provides no bleeding chance.
- Malicious Sorcery provides no attack speed increase.
- Imagined Burden provides might out of combat when using the greatsword autoattack
- Phantasmal Warden is coded as using a sword weapon. This is expressed in proccing Fencer’s Finesse and in the damage range of its attacks.
- Time warp only refreshes quickness/slow and will not stack them up in duration, even if you have significant condition/boon duration.
- Mantra of Concentration now applies 5 stacks of stability instead of 3
- An effect procced by summoning previous phantasm / using healing signet (not sure which one it is yet) prevents you from summoning a second phantasm for a sec or two.
- Phantasm damage tooltips do not take the base 15% boost into account for display values.
- Using a non-mantra healing skill while traited for inspiration will cause many on-heal effects to activate twice. Major traits do not matter for this. Not all on-heal runes are affected, but many are.
Mender’s Purity
- Will not proc on the last activation of the healing mantra; 2nd if untraited, 3rd if traited.
- Only removes one condition instead of two needs confirmation
- Menders purity will not trigger when you dodge after casting a traited mirror heal until the reflect wears off. (triggers too late instead of at the end of the cast) needs confirmation
(edited by Fay.2357)
Stealth given by the mesmer to others works with PU. This is as intended. It’s stealth given to the mesmer by others that won’t get the duration boost.
What would the math be if you had two 5 second chaos armors in a row (Like what you can do on staff currently)?
You’d be recharging 17 seconds worth of cooldowns in those 10 seconds (1,7/s).
Old one would have been 27,5 seconds (2,75/s).Comparatively speaking, you lost ~38% cooldown speed, but, only while Chaos Armor is up.
I think the easiest way to think about this is to consider base CDs in terms of percentages.
Chaotic Dampening regenerates 2% of a CD while Chaos Armor is up. A skill with a 10s CD regenerates 10% of its CD at all times. So with Chaotic Dampening and having Chaos Armor -> 12% per second. Used to be 15%.
A better way to think of it is the realistic situation of use.
Pre-nerf rotation would get you 50% cdr on chaos storm, a total of 17.5 seconds.
Post-nerf rotation gets you 20% cdr on chaos storm, a total of 7 seconds.
7/17.5 = .4, so the nerf reduced our potential cdr in a normal rotation by 60%.
As for Maimed, we wanted to address it before the build went out but we ran out of time. I agree that it would have been better to have adjusted it before you guys got your hands on the new build, but there just wasn’t time. Sorry about this.
We’re not irritated about it coming after the build, we’re irritated about it happening at all. It was uncalled for nerf, and absolutely should be reverted. Maim post-nerf with IP is weaker than Maim prior to this trait revamp, and that’s absurd.
For staff cd trait – conditional recharge is something new we’re trying out. The high cd reduction uptime that we were seeing right out of the gate wasn’t something we felt comfortable with. If it feels really weak after this we’ll come back to it and look at it again.
I’ll just copy and paste a quick bit of math and reasoning I did in another thread:
The main problem, as I’ve already stated, with the current 2% is that the normal rotation of chaos storm -> phase retreat -> chaos armor will provide a total of 20% cooldown reduction on chaos storm, and 10% on chaos armor.
This is objectively worse than the flat 20% trait. Additionally, it locks you into a predictable rotation if you want to gain that bonus.
Yes, you could jump through hoops and take other ethereal fields, swap to sword for more leap finishers to sustain chaos armor longer, or have a friend blast the fields for you…but that’s an absurd amount of effort to just match what the old trait gave you.
A more balanced point would probably 3%. The normal rotation would give 30% cdr to chaos storm, 15% to chaos armor, and allow you to potentially boost it further by jumping through those hoops. That 10% bonus on chaos storm is compensatory for the predictable rotation you’re forced to do in order to obtain it.
The main problem, as I’ve already stated, with the current 2% is that the normal rotation of chaos storm → phase retreat → chaos armor will provide a total of 20% cooldown reduction on chaos storm, and 10% on chaos armor.
This is objectively worse than the flat 20% trait. Additionally, it locks you into a predictable rotation if you want to gain that bonus.
Yes, you could jump through hoops and take other ethereal fields, swap to sword for more leap finishers to sustain chaos armor longer, or have a friend blast the fields for you…but that’s an absurd amount of effort to just match what the old trait gave you.
A more balanced point would probably 3%. The normal rotation would give 30% cdr to chaos storm, 15% to chaos armor, and allow you to potentially boost it further by jumping through those hoops. That 10% bonus on chaos storm is compensatory for the predictable rotation you’re forced to do in order to obtain it.
I guess this makes Mirror of Anguish more competitive. lol
But seriously, why the drastic nerf from 5% to 2%? It did seem like my skills on Staff were recharging quite a bit, but if pyro can do some quick math to show how ineffective 2% is, why can’t the devs?!
Simple answer. Math requires thought.
Yep, hope y’all are happy. Chaotic dampening got nerfed into a shadow of its former self, and power block got a massive and completely uncalled for slash to its damage.
Yeah, with that nerf to chaotic dampening, it’s now worse in almost all situations than the original flat 20% cooldown. At 2%, we need it to tick for 10 seconds to reach 20%, and that won’t just gets reached with phase retreat through chaos storm and then activating chaos armor.
So basically, we’re going from flat 20% in all situations to a conditional 20% IFF we combo our skills exactly properly, and that’s only going to be 20% on chaos storm. Chaos armor itself won’t get the 20% reduction, it’ll only get 10.
I’d like to say that I’m surprised by these changes, but I’m not. The dev team taking a massive dump on mesmer is only to be expected at this point. I’m particularly loving how all the other classes got massive numbers of bug fixes, but despite many of our new traits having bugs that completely ruin them, we got nothing but 2 very significant nerfs.
I haven’t even experimented with MoD yet, but I agree with your overall sentiments. My suggestion without having done much thinking on the issue:
- Increase the icd to 15 seconds.
- Change the icd to work per foe similarly to Ineptitude.
Head over here and voice your support to the idea:
Yep, the only potentially overpowered mechanic that we currently have is confounding suggestions, and I’ve got a proposal that would modify it to be more balanced across different ranges of engagements:
I find it wonderfully ironic that people complain about how thieves and such constantly QQ about mesmers to get us nerfed, when in reality those same people are the ones making the loudest cries for nerfs against their own class!
I guarantee you that searching through the posting history of people in this thread would reveal complaints about how thief crying gets us nerfed. That these same people are crying louder than thieves to get themselves nerfed just bewilders me.
I chose 10 seconds based on total effective stun output.
Currently, 1 per 5 seconds.
With my change, 1 per 10 against one person, 1 per 5 against 2 people, and then increasing gains compared to now with every additional person past 2.
Target caps are broken atm Loony, that’s not how it’s supposed to work though.
The general consensus seems to be that the new Confounding Suggestions is on the strong side. However, this is only the case in duels, where you’re fighting one opponent. In group fights, stunning one person every 5 seconds is rarely a huge benefit.
Therefor, the suggestion:
Increase the icd to 10 seconds. Make the idc local to each enemy player as the blind on ineptitude is.
What this change will do is drastically reduce the frequency of stuns against a single player in a duel, making that aspect less overpowering. It will simultaneously boost the potential of lockdown Mesmer to scale their effectiveness up in larger fights, which is currently lacking.
I’m probably a bit biased as the content creator, but if you want an example of doing captions for fight explanation well, take a look at my old immortal videos Ross.
Just make sure you use white text with a black outline. My version of premier back then couldn’t do that, so it’s not as legible as it should be now and then.
Mesmer build options and effectiveness have been so consistently kitten for so long that when they’re suddenly something else…you have no idea how to react.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but Mesmer requiring 10x more effort to accomplish what everyone else could do didn’t make it better or more fun…it just made it non-meta and aggravating to play. Now we’re getting a reward more appropriate to the effort we put in, and some deluded mesmers are asking for nerfs. It boggles the mind.
You can’t scream for buffs all the time and then turn around and ask for nerfs after you get buffed. Stupid threads like this are one of the reasons mesmers never get nice things.
Yeah, the worst part of this is that tetrodoxin is right.
Conditions are way too strong at the moment, and there will almost definitely be some blanket nerfs to tone them down. Unfortunately, MtD is going to be forgotten when that happens, and will be even more worthless than ever.
Can confirm, attack speed portion of the trait is not functional.
