I don’t see this as a negative or a positive. It will be a negative thing if it is an impediment to certain playstyles.
I don’t see the Mesmer shatter mechanic as negative if you decide to go for a phantasm-heavy build. You just simply don’t benefit it as much than if you had gone Shatter or Lockdown.
For instance, if you had gone the beastmaster route, and your pet dies too easily, makes no real threat before it’s dead, then it’s a hindrance. In which case, it will be a negative thing.
Maybe he meant something along the lines of pets having literally no value in large-scale WvW.
Any of the devs played WoW (up until WotLK)? Hunter pets in that game seemed to behave pretty decently and I loved playing a Beastmaster there. So what did Blizzard do that ANet can’t do as well? Numerous suggestions have already been provided, so a little indepth feedback on how you guys want to proceed would be highly appreciated.
From my perspective, the main 2 things to work on are:
Ability to hit moving targets
Resistance to AoE
The instant F2 is nice, but that was the easy 5 minute fix. Now we’d like to hear more about the actual changes to pet AI and reliability.
I’ve been wondering about that as well; that game is like ten years old now and they managed to make pets work.
I’m not familiar with programming, but I don’t see how an older game like WoW could manage something like that while GW2 can’t.
So instead of simply fixing the pet mechanic, you’d like to see an overhaul of dungeon AI? I’m not sure that’s the most logical or efficient way of doing things.
Sure, I’d love to see dungeons become that much better, but I don’t think that is a realistic demand right now.
If you’ve been following this thread you should realise simply fixing the pet mechanic is not a simple fix at all.
I know they can turn off the Maw’s ability to target pets – Hrouda talked about it. It’s not an overhaul of dungeon AI it’s one thing they do have the power to change.
Oh, and in regards to the Jade Maw targeting pets, I made the conscious decision to allow it to target non-players. I have the ability to change that, but I prefer not to on the grounds that there is some gameplay there. My pet has made the ultimate sacrifice quite a few times while we res’d a down party members, providing groups with a much needed window to help others up and recover. I know it can be a bit frustrating if everything is going great and you’re not having any problems, but I’d much rather the pet provide a moment of relief for those struggling. I am open to debate on the subject, but that is for threads over in the dungeon forum, not here
DOUBLE EDIT:
Jade Maw should not target downed pets. We have a bug on it already and are aware of it.
I think reconsidering this stance is a realistic suggestion given Hrouda said it is possible.
If you want to argue semantics, go for it.
All I meant was that in comparison, solving pet AI is going to be a lot easier than tackling dungeon AI in general.
Altering the Jade Maw interaction with pets is not going to change anything; it’s just another Band-Aid fix that doesn’t address any of the Ranger’s core issues.
I completely agree with dumping the pet and going with the aspect as well. You can keep your pet or put it away, it’s your choice. Anet saying that pets are important to the ranger and are a core class mechanic is a bit silly tbh because they’ve been broken the whole time. If you didn’t bother to fix them then why are you so against letting us stow them?
If all we get is a LONG OVERDUE fix to F2 response time then we’re still sub par. Take this a time to look at what players are asking for please.
A few comments:
Pet-auto-dodge when hit for x% of it’s life
Problem is that you want pet to dodge before it get hits…
So overall AoE reduction OR pet dodge on master’s dodge would be better…
Problem, if we have to dodge for two, we need some more evades…
Here, risk would balance itself out… if we lose the pet, we lose damage, but we still able to be “resilient”…
Other solution:
-System knows when AoE/strong spell is cast; make the pet avoid it/move out of it without master’s input…
-have a built-in pet repositionning tool (go there fast and stay until I tell you otherwise)
On pet hitting:
- Pet should have perma quickness built-in (not just speed of movement, but speed of attack also. Even forgetting about responsiveness issue, F2 is just too long to cast
- and cleave attacks
QoL
- why does the pet needs to be in combat for traits to work on it (like boons duration)
- why can’t I see it’s buffs/alterations?
- why can’t the pet jump with me?
- why can’t they remember their names?
This is why I still think the better solution is to simply give the pet aegis on Ranger dodge or evade.
This way the Ranger doesn’t need to dodge for himself and a second time for the pet. Simply dodging once will grant the pet enough protection from 1 hit mechanics. It would also give the pet much needed surviability in WvW.
A short internal cooldown of one aegis every 5 seconds to ensure the pet doesn’t get one every GS cycle is all it would take to keep it balanced.
Give the aegis a reasonable duration and call it aday.
This doesn’t solve any of the problems that Ranger suffers from in WvW.
I just want to throw in that Necromancers was advertised also as a attrition, sustain based class and it became a ranged condi nuker. Just sayin.
On topic:
This whole sustained damage thingy should be throw out in the window. Every class should(!) have options to play a more spike oriented way or give up some burst to get some extra sustain from their builds. Of course condi builds are slower by their nature, but with a main hand axe ranger is already in a decent position with it.
That’s actually a good point.
And Necros also have a pretty decent variety in builds; it’s apparent that their design philosophy is a lot more fluid than Ranger’s.
Regarding the 30% DPS lost becasuse our pets never hit…
It’s been tested by several players that the “30% faster pets trait” (Agility Training) helps a lot improving pet’s DPS.
Giving our pets that speed increase by default, and also increasing the range for their mele attacks, could be an easy-to-implement patch until ANet decides to fix pet’s AI.
Doesn’t make the pet any better.
At least, they would hit more consistently against moving targets (be it players or NPC’s). ANet has said many times that they don’t plan to fix pet’s AI soon, so until then (if they ever do, and I don’t think so) we must find ways to make them work within current constraints.
Delete them. If they can’t fix them I want them deleted.
But but…rangers are the pet class…even though the pet mechanic is broken, unreliable and an actual hindrance in most game modes, the pets must stay because we need a pet class! /anet
It’s pathetic at this point. If you want to stick with pets, either fix them or allow them to become an option through a beast-master trait.
Minor Trait: “You get a pet.”
I like how CrossFire’s post got deleted yet it speaks the truth.
I guess I just don’t understand why ANet is so fixated on keeping the pet mechanic. I mean, where is the logic behind trying to fix a broken class while at the same time remaining adamant that the very thing that is breaking it needs to stay?
So many interesting, innovative ideas have been suggested so far and all ANet has given us in the past few days is a post about signets. I’d love to see Ranger become the class that it should have been, but I can’t help but feel that the devs are being too narrow-minded.
It’s honestly more to blame with NCsoft since they command anet on how to spend their resources in terms of development.
I guess an entire broken class is OK with them so long as the others are somewhat stable
Maybe.
And to clarify, if they can make the pet mechanic work, then by all means keep it. But coming into this thread and essentially admitting that the pet mechanic as it stands has issues, that you don’t have the capabilities to fix it, and that you don’t have any current plans to change it is not acceptable.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Band-Aid buffs will not fix the Ranger profession. If ANet is serious about solving the issues that have plagued this class since before the game was released, then they need to take a completely different approach.
Regarding the 30% DPS lost becasuse our pets never hit…
It’s been tested by several players that the “30% faster pets trait” (Agility Training) helps a lot improving pet’s DPS.
Giving our pets that speed increase by default, and also increasing the range for their mele attacks, could be an easy-to-implement patch until ANet decides to fix pet’s AI.
Doesn’t make the pet any better.
At least, they would hit more consistently against moving targets (be it players or NPC’s). ANet has said many times that they don’t plan to fix pet’s AI soon, so until then (if they ever do, and I don’t think so) we must find ways to make them work within current constraints.
Delete them. If they can’t fix them I want them deleted.
But but…rangers are the pet class…even though the pet mechanic is broken, unreliable and an actual hindrance in most game modes, the pets must stay because we need a pet class! /anet
It’s pathetic at this point. If you want to stick with pets, either fix them or allow them to become an option through a beast-master trait.
Minor Trait: “You get a pet.”
I like how CrossFire’s post got deleted yet it speaks the truth.
I guess I just don’t understand why ANet is so fixated on keeping the pet mechanic. I mean, where is the logic behind trying to fix a broken class while at the same time remaining adamant that the very thing that is breaking it needs to stay?
So many interesting, innovative ideas have been suggested so far and all ANet has given us in the past few days is a post about signets. I’d love to see Ranger become the class that it should have been, but I can’t help but feel that the devs are being too narrow-minded.
A detail? I can probably use one hand to count ranger weapons skills that are not a dps loss compared to auto attack.
Yes, a detail. As in, something they should probably look into which is less important than the idea our unique mechanic could use tweaking and another look.
Remember, it’s been stated the pet is intended to be a nice slice of our DPS.
I’d love to see some direction by anyone from ArenaNet as to what the next step should be for us players.
Currently, this thread is a train without a conductor. It’s impossible to provide useful feedback; nearly everything presented so far has been shutdown in one way or another.
What I don’t understand is how the PVE in this game is more profitable for ArenaNet than the WvW or the PvP?
The PVE in this game is not good. Open world content is nothing more than a massive zerg-fest. Orr has too much trash and not enough waypoints. The Zhaitan was a massive disappointment. Optimally running dungeons means you focus on maximizing dps, stacking and leashing. The Living World, with the shining exceptions of SAB, Halloween and Marionette, have all been zergy disappointments.
I can easily find many MMO’s that have better PVE content: Wow, LOTRO, Rift, etc.
However, the WvW and PvP in GW2 are different. WvWvW content – large maps to explore, huge fights, small skirmishes, etc. It’s better than any of its current competition. PvP has fluid combat and good balance.
But, ArenaNet has let WvW and PvP flounder. If they invested the time and energy into WvW and PvP instead of PVE and LW, they’d have the best world and team-based PvP in any MMO, ever. It had so much potential – and it’s simply being squandered.
Instead of having lousy PVE and outstanding WvW and PvP, we have a game with mediocre PVE, WvW and PvP.
This is basically how I feel right now.
I’m tired of PvE zerg content and gem store updates. I don’t find either very fun and it seems like that is all ANet wants to do.
So, where does that leave this CDI? My current feel and stance is that it wasn’t needed at all. Almost all truly important suggestions were already in the [PvX]Ranger-thread. And to top that, due to other CDI’s running at the same time, this CDI feels like it’s being shoved under the carpet. For which I wouldn’t even think to blame Allie , it has been more then clear where the ranger fails, and it’s size and post frequency could have been seen coming from far away…
That’s what ANet gets for failing to address these issues that were brought up before the game was even released.
I can only hope that they realize that a Band-Aid fix is not going to cut it.
Transient PvE zerg content and gem store updates are not what I signed up for when I pre-ordered this game.
A lot of people? you mean the less than 5% that visit the game forums.
I mean that most be weird considering the game made 100 million dollar last year which is not bad considering it they did not rely on 60 dollar box and 1-2 million people to buy the game.
That’s cool. I’m glad some people still enjoy this game.
Still doesn’t change the fact that a lot of people are leaving this game because they’re tired of the same old stuff from ANet. I know a lot of WvW guilds that are leaving for ESO because of how stale everything is currently.
We need some direction from ANet or this thread isn’t going anywhere.
Also… could people please stop posting huge walls of text? Less is more when it comes to something like this; taking up three pages to describe all of the issues that you have with Ranger is not as effective as using bullet points to do the same thing in a single paragraph.
What can we talk about that will get done? So far, all I have seen in this CDI are topics that have been denied.
1. Perma-Stowing – This idea was shut down and sent to make another thread because it was too intensive / difficult to program and goes against the dev ideal that Rangers are a pets class.
2. Pet AI Fix – Fixing the pet AI so it actually hits, dodges attacks, avoids AoE’s, and generally is not a drag on the class was deemed too intensive / difficult to do.
3. Improve Ranged Weapons and Raise Damage / Burst / DPS – These ideas were denied because other classes currently are too strong at DPS, burst damage, and any other measure of damage. This is considering that other profession’s autoattacks outperform Ranger’s DPS, burst, or damage most of the time across any scale of time (short or long term). Burst was also tossed because it does not meet the dev ideal of the Ranger.
These issues are the main focus of the Ranger CDI because the Ranger is a poorly done class. The Ranger pet has poor AI that hits nothing unless it remains stationary. Because of the pet, the Ranger has some of the lowest damaging weapons period. The Ranger does not do more damage by any measure. Similarly, the Ranger is not an exceptionally good bunker class. Its survivability is mediocre, at best. This does not include the pet, which can never survive unless the most basic of pve situations.
It appears to me, and please correct me if I’m wrong, that the goal of this CDI was to provide small and simple ideas to tweak some numbers to improve the Ranger, similar to all other balancing patches to date. This type of discussion is appropriate for a competent class, like Warrior or Guardian. But, as I hope Anet can see by these discussions, the Ranger is fundamentally broken and will require some intensive effort to fix. Especially before we talk about bumping up the power to some shout or signet and call it a day.
I resent the fact that ANet views Ranger as “the pet class”.
it would be entirely unproblematic if they were willing to make the pets work, at whatever the cost.
That’s the problem – it would take a complete re-design to make it work
Anet messed up big time from the drawing board with this class, and now they have very few choices of actually fixing our class mechanic….
Devs have already stated pets are broken, yet for some reason, anet wants to continue around this “pet” mechanic….. I’m not exactly sure what kind of logic this is
You pubicly state that pets are a mess and completely broken, yet you want us rangers to suffer by saying “stick with this broken pet” we can’t do anything!!
almost 2 years… still waiting…
Seriously, if you can’t fix it, dump the pet. its utterly useless right now in 95% of the game. No amount of change unless it starts with the core mechanic will change that percentage, and everyone in this forum knows that this type of change WILL NOT happen.
I don’t understand why you are being so hesitant about trying to fix something you have already stated that cannot be fixed because you don’t have the resources to do so… stop wasting all the poor players that play this broken class and let us know what you are really up to please
Re-concept Ranger and give it a bit more of a Druid feel. Allow Rangers to equip Staffs so that we finally have a CC/utility weapon that will actually be useful in large-scale WvW.
Fix longbow; it’s not only clunky but also ineffective.
Scrap the pet mechanic and find ways to incorporate the pet idea into weapon/utility skills (the Warhorn skill that summons a flock of birds is a perfect example).
Create more exciting utilities that aren’t horribly tied to traits (signets, traps, spirits have an all-or-nothing design philosophy behind them).
Please destroy spirits as they currently stand today; they’re toxic to sPvP in every imaginable way.
I personally feel that unless ANet drastically changes how they view the Ranger, this class is forever doomed to mediocrity and terrible pet AI.
Honestly, at this point, just take a sledgehammer to the Ranger class and build it from the ground up. There are so many issues with this class and simply putting a band-aid on the pet mechanic is not going to make them all go away.
The armor itself is not too bad. The female version could do with a little more coverage, but overall, it’s not a terrible set.
What really gets me is why ANet decided to include the blue skin effect. Maybe there are people out there who think it’s a cool look, but I personally think it’s just plain ugly.
Thank you Arena Net.
Now, how about adding a new armor set that is acquirable without gem store or long grind?
A thousand times this.
For a game that revolves around “cosmetics”, it seems a bit ridiculous that ANet hasn’t added in additional armor sets outside of the gem store after over a year since release. More unique skins for WvW would be appreciated… hint hint.
This game is going to die if ANet doesn’t get their act together.
“Getting the game to China” isn’t really on my list of features that I’d like to see implemented. The fact of the matter is that this game is getting stale fairly quickly and it needs something to revive it.
Giving Meteor Shower an AoE circle would be such a huge nerf to Elementalists that I’m not even sure people would bother using them for damage anymore.
I mean, let’s get real here: the spell already has a massive channel time and you’re a stationary target for the duration. Meteor Shower also needs to be synced with 4-5 other Elementalists to have any impact due to the AoE cap. Not to mention the huge cooldown and that you can easily bait the spell or simply dodge-roll out of it.
If you’re having problems surviving Meteor Showers, it’s completely on your end.
You’re stationary for the cast time, not the duration of the skill. And trust me, as a well using necro main, some red circles aren’t going to stop people from staying in the AOE.
I agree that it needs some warning though, as do mesmer feedbacks and necro spectral walls.
You knew what I meant about being stationary, but whatever.
Also, Necro AoE is completely different from Meteor Shower: wells are instant, act as combo fields, and have effects other than pure damage.
If Meteor Shower was instant cast and could strip boons from enemies while acting as a blinding field, I might agree with you.
Wells are never purposefully blasted, or at least, I’ve never witnessed it. Dark fields arent in high demand. They also are not instant cast, and have longer cooldowns than meteor shower, which isn’t a utility.
That 1/4 second cast time must be a real downer. For all intents and purposes, it is essentially instant cast.
Dark fields are also highly underrated and I’d love to know what guild/server you’re with that doesn’t think blasting them is worthwhile.
How hard is it to understand that it’s not the class which is at fault, it’s the players of said class.
How hard is it to understand that Rangers are only effective in sPvP and roaming? You’re simply delusional if you think Rangers are on par with other classes when it comes to PvE and most aspects of WvW.
Ranger is easily the most awkward and disjointed profession in the game and it has the worst designed/implemented “defining” mechanic. ANet really dropped the ball on this one; I miss how effective Rangers were in GW1 and the fact that pets were not mandatory.
Yes. lets see what the WvW community has to say about a decision that will affect people who play all/other aspects of the game.. Gee I wonder what inciteful and informative input they will have..
10 mins later
’*make it harder!**
PUNISH THEM!!! MAKE THEM WVW LIKE WE DO!!!
It’s not faiR UnLesS EVEryoNe SuFfErS ThE SaME!!!
Ah excellent, excellent. Carry on.
WvW players are forced to PvE a lot more than PvE players are forced to WvW. The rewards received between one and the other aren’t even comparable; PvE is the clear cut winner.
Any complaints about this have been met with floods of “WELL IF YOU DON’T WANT TO DO IT THEN NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO”.
It’s simply hypocritical at this point. You really want that Legendary? Then man up and get Rank 30 instead of complaining endlessly about lack of transparency or a proper notice.
Giving Meteor Shower an AoE circle would be such a huge nerf to Elementalists that I’m not even sure people would bother using them for damage anymore.
I mean, let’s get real here: the spell already has a massive channel time and you’re a stationary target for the duration. Meteor Shower also needs to be synced with 4-5 other Elementalists to have any impact due to the AoE cap. Not to mention the huge cooldown and that you can easily bait the spell or simply dodge-roll out of it.
If you’re having problems surviving Meteor Showers, it’s completely on your end.
You’re stationary for the cast time, not the duration of the skill. And trust me, as a well using necro main, some red circles aren’t going to stop people from staying in the AOE.
I agree that it needs some warning though, as do mesmer feedbacks and necro spectral walls.
You knew what I meant about being stationary, but whatever.
Also, Necro AoE is completely different from Meteor Shower: wells are instant, act as combo fields, and have effects other than pure damage.
If Meteor Shower was instant cast and could strip boons from enemies while acting as a blinding field, I might agree with you.
Giving Meteor Shower an AoE circle would be such a huge nerf to Elementalists that I’m not even sure people would bother using them for damage anymore.
I mean, let’s get real here: the spell already has a massive channel time and you’re a stationary target for the duration of the cast time. Meteor Shower also needs to be synced with 4-5 other Elementalists to have any impact due to the AoE cap. Not to mention the huge cooldown and that you can easily bait the spell or simply dodge-roll out of it.
If you’re having problems surviving Meteor Showers, it’s completely on your end.
Still waiting to hear about these “amazing” changes.
I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you…this is Anet. I don’t believe they have any plans for the ranger. They just simply may not be intelligent or creative enough to figure it out.
They probably think that adding combo fields to other traps (something that should have been there to begin with) is going to be received as super awesome innovation.
Unless they rework the pet mechanic, bring Ranger utilities and traits in line with other classes, and/or streamline awkward weapon skills, I’m going to be disappointed.
It just blows my mind that WvW players have been getting shafted for so long, and as soon as PvE players have one tiny thing that they have to WvW for, ANet instantly reverts their decision.
To be fair, they said that the rank requirement IS coming back at some point, and it is only being taken out because of “the way it is messaged in-game” at the moment. That sounds like the only reason they’re taking the rank requirement out might be because, as it is now, the Gift is not even visible at the vendor unless you have rank 30, so there is no way to know beforehand (in-game) that the thing even exists, or how you can get it.
That’s just the nice PR way to put things.
The truth of the matter is that they’re reverting this change to give PvE players a chance to buy the item before the restriction goes live again to help smooth the outrage. Obviously they can’t say that, so they have to act like they need to make the change more transparent and other yada-yada. Honestly, they should have done that to begin with, but whatever.
Who would have ever thought that the PvE cry-babies would get their way?
It just blows my mind that WvW players have been getting shafted for so long, and as soon as PvE players have one tiny thing that they have to WvW for, ANet instantly reverts their decision.
WvW players have been getting shafted for a long time now when compared to rewards earned in PvE and the argument has always been that if you really want that dungeon armor or that legendary weapon, then you need to do what it takes to earn it. Any mention of not enjoying PvE content has been met with “WELL NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO DO IT!!!11!!!!1!” since the game came out.
And now that ONE aspect of this game requires you to participate in WvW, you guys are up in arms. This is simply hilarious, and the best part is that ANet will probably meet your demands and remove the requirement because they don’t want to upset their PvE heroes who have been getting the majority of the new content catered to them.
It’s true, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. But, I also don’t see any reason why wvw doesn’t (or shouldn’t) have it’s own unique skins that are only obtainable through doing wvw. I mean, you do have the one… but you could use a few (ok several) more. The same for spvp. Equal footing. Then if you want a dungeon skin, you have to do the dungeon. If pver like me wants the wvw skin, I have to wvw.
It would take some effort, but it could be done
Yes, I agree with everything you said.
ANet doesn’t seem to, however; any new skins that we get are tied to the Gem Store or Living Story.
WvW players have been getting shafted for a long time now when compared to rewards earned in PvE and the argument has always been that if you really want that dungeon armor or that legendary weapon, then you need to do what it takes to earn it. Any mention of not enjoying PvE content has been met with “WELL NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO DO IT!!!11!!!!1!” since the game came out.
And now that ONE aspect of this game requires you to participate in WvW, you guys are up in arms. This is simply hilarious, and the best part is that ANet will probably meet your demands and remove the requirement because they don’t want to upset their PvE heroes who have been getting the majority of the new content catered to them.
But telling us we can’t have any opinion on what we’ve played over the past year is totally unfair. I’m not sure it even makes logical sense.
When did I ever say you can’t have an opinion? I’m just asking that people reserve judgment on the next release until they’ve played it and absorbed the story components.
Becka’s post wasn’t even in regards to the next Living Story update; the whole thing was about how the story from last January up until this point has been meaningless hoo-ha with no real meat that doesn’t really address any major questions. Each patch can basically be summed up with “Scarlet caused some mayhem for some unknown reason”.
Her next point is that all of the substance of the Living Story is going to be shoved (theoretically) into the last three patches and how that makes for a lame, essentially two chapter story. I understand that you’re going for a big reveal, but the plot has not been that gripping or suspenseful because you haven’t given us any real answers over the past year.
Hey, kiddos. If you do not want capes, just don’t voice your opinion here. It’s not like, once introduced, they will be mandatory to wear.
Kids these days…
That is not how the world works, if no one objected then Arena Net would assume everyone wants a cape, which is not really the case.
Plus calling everyone a child for not sharing your opinion is… I would not say childish, lets go with unproductive and perhaps outright provocative.
Capes add little to the game and always clip character models extremely badly. Unless someone can give me an example of an MMORPG where it is included and looks natural with no clipping, then I have to remain against such a feature.
You act as if the majority of the armor/weapons that we’ve had since launch don’t have any major clipping issues. Spoiler: they do.
Edge of the Mists coming next week! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
With Scarlet’s bull kitten inside! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
seriously… WTF?
they didn’t noticed that nobody cares about energy probes in wvwvw like the other temporary pve things added before?
I don’t think that ANet realizes that the huge draw to WvW for a lot of us is that it’s the only form of open-world PvP currently in this game.
For some reason, they seem to think that WvW should be this cute little segue between PvE and sPvP, which simply could not be further from the truth for core WvW players.
D Finally some decent armor and a cool event also.