It’s 14,98 might with blast finishers in own fire field requireing perfect job. Additional 9,67 from sigil of battle. Plus 3,26 from Enhance Performance and 14,5 from sigil of strength. Overall 42,4 stacks of might on average – more or less accurate for realistic scenarios. But yes: 25 stacks should be not a big deal with this build. I just wonder about the 25 stacks of vulnerability without condition duration food.
This seems somehow unbalanced to me. Rune of Aristocracy should be the condition counterpart to Rune of Strength but is so much weaker in my opinion. Is it still strong enougth for a roaming build which profits from strong gear/skill combinations?
I can say that it is. I use them in a p/p HGH roaming build. I think they work best with an HGH build since it results in 5 might stacks being generated by elixir H. It’s also a reliable trigger mechanism that doesn’t result in you having to be hit, but it is dependent on using your healing skill.
They work well for HGH builds for sure. But HGH is “out” for good reason: HGH-engis are just necros without fear but with (limited) swiftness. It’s a bit under engineers potential in other words. Roaming profits from very good locomotion.
The amount of extra damage you do thanks to Might is that small that it requires a lot of seconds before you got the upperhand. A simple flamebomb tick with Balthazar Runes on already gives one extra second and so assuming it does not get stripped in time.. the damage easily wins of the extra might. You also got the extra burn with the Healing Turret in case your target strips condis a lot, something aristo can’t offer and thus it’s extra damage.
The point still is: you do have enougth condition duration in wvw for perma burning anyway.: 30% with traits, 50% with food. Balthasar are overkill in wvw because any good player will either remove the burning or die because of no condition cleanse left anyway – with and without balthasar. There is definitly no need for burning duration there.
Just calculate an aprox of 9 extra might in condition damage calculators and you see how little the impact of the extra condition damage is.
Now in a situation where the opponent doesn’t care about condis, chances are aristo does more damage but we can assume that most people are not like that.
9 might is like 10-15% more condition damage. That’s not bad.
I just tested a few days balthasars, Scavenging and grenths. Balthasar seems a bit overkill as I said. Anyway it gives the most damage overall in most situations but not against skilled players. And those non-skilled shouldn’t be a problem anyway. Scavenging gives a little bit sustain but not really noticeable imo. Grenth was the most useful rune set for me: I used grenth with grenades and sigil of hydro. With condition duration buff food it is possible to nearly perma slow a small group of peoples which extremly increases your surviveability. Chill is really strong offensive (to land your skills much easier) and defensive (increased escape chances, 66% more skill cooldowns for enemies..)
What about sigil of intelligence to proc IP with dire? Anyway, does anyone know the numbers of the rune of scavenging? How much leaching is it? Imo balthazar is overkill for wvw. You reach anyway a high amount of condition duration with food. Permaburning still stays permaburning.
My point not using aristocracy is:
Runes of Strength:
+175 power
+45% might duration
25% chance when struck to gain Might for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 5s)
+7% damage while under the effects of Might.
Rune of Aristocracy:
+175 condition damage
+45% might duration
when you use a healing skill, gain 3 stacks of Might for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 10s)
This seems somehow unbalanced to me. Rune of Aristocracy should be the condition counterpart to Rune of Strength but is so much weaker in my opinion. Is it still strong enougth for a roaming build which profits from strong gear/skill combinations?
-Elixir H is one of the weakest healing skills in the game. It is so far behind all other engineer healing skills, just worth if you play HGH and use all traits for elixirs.
-Flamethrower is a power weapon. Just with burning you can’t play condition damage. It’s like playing guard condition because of burning.
- Anyway, Elixir gun and Flamethrower are utility weapons. Means: you won’t kill any expert player with this. Because they deal so less damage. Use bombs or grenades or both.
-If you really wanna play FT, use rifle and power/celestial equipment.
- If you really wanna play burning kitten, use torch and incendiary powder. Thats enougth; use some other sources of damage additional like grenades to be more flexible. You can also add bombs for more burning.
Anyway, what is this build for? Open World? Dungon? Fractals? WvW? We need more details to go further.
Ok “Mr. Adult” I am sure your 5s stability will safe the world every guardian will bow before you how you waste 2 utility slots. But you have right you have more blast finishers I admit it. But it has at least twice as long cd then is actualy usefull but why not:-D
Bombs in zerg are pretty much sux, low range and fuse is simply too long, maybe its good for hold some choke point but its not too often. CC? Enemies in deathball has stability and offten immunity to slow effects with food, melandru runes and traits so you can only CC pugs (and zerkers who obviosly havent those runes and traits) but you dont need some special build to kill those ones.
FYI over 6k hours of my playtime is WvW so dont call me PvE guy..
It is an 20% uptime of stability for 5 ppl so theoreticly it is an 100% uptime. Plus u get those 5 sec again when your health drops below 25%. Anyway you can change this skill if your organized zerg has 100% uptime. But this is something you can argue with any class. I can say your guardian build is kitten because u use stability skill and there is anyway an uptime.. lol. Bombs in zerg suck? Yes maybe. But FT sucks more. Remember: I don’t recoomend melee engi in zergs. You do. You recommend a build which is really not worth the tier 1 wvw slot. Bearbow ranger is on pair with your efficience. I posted a build which is maybe far away from a good zerg build but still in all aspects better then your badgemachine (but not in the points of badges, yes).
CC is useless in zergs? Yes thats why many other classes do have popular build which do have a lot of CC. And btw: what is your builds use in zergs? FT#1+#2? great job mate. That’s why engineers are so unpopular.
Back to topic: I recommend zerker grenades. Nothing wrong with it. In worst case I can’t deal damage because totally outzoned (let’s talk about skill again, this case should not happen…) And you are not doing much better with FT then. It is anyway similar to zero damage.
Now it is going to be kid from your side. It is similar to yours but uses bombs instead of kittenty FT. Plus stability for group and 3 blast finishers with thumper turrent. Which is the main role for engineers in zerg: CC and blast finishers. But as you told: waste of time to talk with you. Don’t argue with PvE guys… FT build … saying my build is bad… rofl you are a joke.
You do realize the build Roz linked can blast finish nearly just as well right? And still has water and fire fields, (hard) cc access, and probably the best group condition cleanse in the game?
(which I both not recommend! Engi is not good for melee in Zerg imo)
He has 3 blast finishers + ulti compared to 6 blast finishers + ulti. Less CC, worse fire field and no: he doesn’t take EG with him for best condition cleanse?!
Now it is going to be kid from your side. It is similar to yours but uses bombs instead of kittenty FT. Plus stability for group and 3 blast finishers with thumper turrent. Which is the main role for engineers in zerg: CC and blast finishers. But as you told: waste of time to talk with you. Don’t argue with PvE guys… FT build … saying my build is bad… rofl you are a joke.
Yes this is waste of time. You say I dont know how organized zergs work. Fact is I play wvw since release and I maybe played a lot more organized tier 1 zergs then you. I don’t know it but you can’t say I have no clue. How do you know? Keep playing your kittenty FT build – which is not even worth the slot. Bearbow ranger is in queue maybe and more worth then your FT engi. I watched the vid clearly and it is nothing new to me because I used to play exactly the same organized zergs then you do – and as I told maybe much longer then you. But stop telling other people to play the same kitten you do.
Playing Zerker in an organized Zerg is not easy. But you can also see some vids with zerker warriors in organized tier1 match ups. It works. It just need some kind of skill.
If you want to play bunker melee in zerg I recommend this build:
I watched it. What is the point? In every fight you could have played zerker grenadier. Sorry but I see no point to play useless FT melee. Most of the scenes you were able to go close behind or beside your commander without getting a lot of damage. Some scenes it would have been better to stay more behind /beside (bridge / wall scenes) with still more efficience then FT.
You aren’t free kill with zerker grenadier. You have nice CC and immobilise from rifle, rocket boots and jump shot for mobility and 1500 range. I never had problems to survive unless there is extremly retaliation stacking in enemie zerg. Your own damage is your defense: Jump shot can one-shot enemie zerkers and with some combinations of burst skills u can also burst down heavy targets… I often see small groups going to chatch me and most of the time I am able to burst them down before they get me.
You can play this still with more def if you change zerker for celestial.
Anyway, don’t play FT frontliner… it is as you say: useless for the zerg. Zerker grenades hit so kitten hard. Just stay outside and throw them in. If you get retaliation, aim for another spot or wait a few seconds. Wait for the right moment and jump in with rifle#5. You can block with tool shield to get into a better spot for rifle #3 and jump out with rocket boots.
I just wonder why there is no wall-of-text about this topic. Am I the only one having big troubles against this noob click to win class? No mather if it is condi nec with endless fear and condition spike or power necro with hits for 4-6k per hit range attack?
I really try to get the track against necros but I can’t. This class seems so broken OP to me. Maybe it’s just the fact I prefer play engi. But today some mate flames me in tournament: you are a noob engi u must win against nec. I told him I used to have a really bad time against this noob click to win class…. Am I a noob or is necro really that hard for you guys too? What is your secret to win against them? Please tell, I really need help.
if you look at my build.. you will notice things like the e-gun(especially skill 5), the healing turret, the elixir-r… and the toolbelt skills that come with it. Now lets play a game of guessing what i do with them. If you guessed i stand in a corner and pick my nose with the barrel of the flamer you are wrong.. sadly. I prever the flamer cause i am right where (most) of the damage to the team happens.. the “front line” (cept its some ranged dps thingy). All 20 seconds the healing turret gets deployed for the sake of the team NOT my own.. i shove that thing out even if i got full hp and blast it to the moon to get the area heal and condi removal for the team. The 10 seconds the e-gun 5 skill needs to cool down (that also gets right on the team or if somebody is ranged and wounded) gets used to (depending on the enemie) slap some conditions on the enemie or switch to the flamer to do some chip damage, blind the enemie or just put down a fire field. If a team mate gets beaten on the floor the elixir-r gets tossed over and also the healing mist gets instantly spammed right away its cooldown is done.. cept its a boss that likes to knock me on my kitten .. then i save that thing for my sake and thats actually the ONLY selfish thing i do.. and also only if neccesary. Yea.. i even if im close to death i run to my team mates before i do a healing galore to also let them benefit from it. Yea.. healing is also a part of teamplay…weird huh?
You can use Healing turrent + EG also with bombs and/or Grenade builds? That’s not even weird. Many good engineers play with Healing turrent + EG. Doesn’t change anything on the fact FT sucks and your build too.
Engineers are fine so long as you don’t camp flamethrower. Use your grenades, bombs, mines, riffle 3 & 5 and you will be doing great. Heck when pre stacking might you can use shield offhand for the might and switch to riffle before running in.
Or you dare to step out of the stereotype meta and support your group with green.. rather white numbers and dont care to be uber dps to prove a point.. that you could better prove with other classes. I dare to use a flamer as my main “weapon” in dungeons. Without a doubt the flamer is inferior to bombs or nades dps and condi wise, never gonna argue that point. But it is an aoe weapon and if you trait right and tinker a little arround you got an easy time with it in pve, i use the flamer since i play engi.. and i started out with this class. I get laughed at so many times when i pull out my flamer.. or e-gun in a dungeon, but at the end im the one who laughs inside if im the last one standing and heal\rez my group.. or plain and simple keep em alive while they dps while i apply some conditions with the e-gun, blind em with the flamer, lay down a fire field or spawn healing\regen stuff till the cows come home. While my skills cool down i use flamer 1 and 2 (and flamer 2 can pack a punch if you detonate the fire ball right after it went through the enemie. Sure.. dps wise my build might suck, but what good are dps if you cant do em in the first place.
Here.. thats the build i use for dungeons.. as for “solo non dungeon\fractal” stuff i switch the elixir-r with elixir-b.
feel free to laugh and ridicule if it makes you feel better.
Your build is really bad even for a flamethrower build. Lemme help you out a little bit, because as it is now… yes I’d laugth about u too:
1) Cleaning Formula 409 and Fast-Acting Elixiers is not working for Elixir Gun skills! So don’t use them only to buff Elixir R… that’s a waste.
2) why Power-Shoes if you can choose Speedy Kits? Power-shoes are just the weaker version. Don’t go for power shoes if you won’t go for 6 points in inventions.
3) Sigil: why +20% burning? it doesn’t give u any extra tick. And your FT#1 is weak anyway. Go for Sigil of Battle. It is a must-have in PvE.
4) why platinum doubloons? If you rly need boon duration pick a rune with it. Anyway next point:
5) your rune is just bad. It doesn’t fit with your build. You don’t go for condition damage.
6) why do u mix your gear? Go for celestial gear if you want to be alrounder… you’ll get much more surviveability, much more damage and just a little little less healing (not if you take a healing rune…).
Hello frands! Vee Wee here #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80! I am posting from my frand’s account!
They are not that good because you can achieve 100% duration for all your condis through food buffs, giver weapons, nightmare runes, etc. That includes burning. They are a good choice, however, if you decide for whatever reason not to use food buffs.
Wahoo! Bye frands!
Wahoo what is your suggestion on runes and sigils ma frand?
I am sure scholar is just better dps regarding akademic assumptions. Strength is much more flexible. But that are just my two cents and I did no math on it so far..
Range will not change anything because #1 does no damage anyway and should not be used anyway.
For me it must be something like this which brings me back to the FT:
-Jaggernaut gives stability again instead of additional armor.
- FT#1 gives blind for 2 sec with last tick instead of burning (maybe change the animation also into a cool smoke emission for the last tick). Change +10% dmg against burning foes into +20% against blinded foes.
-FT#3 is a blast finisher
-FT#4 also cripples foes
the super buff applies only in combat out of combat the max speed is +33% same as swiftness
Not true, actually your rocket boots jump further with super-speed then with swiftness out of combat. And you jump exactly 5% further which is exactly 20 ms more then swiftness (400ms). YOu just may not notice this just by walking.
Yor argument is invalid: power is linear increase of total damage or saturating if regarded in percentage. Those both traits my seem to have a synergie for inexpert overlooking. But Trait 1 is similar strong without trait 2 and vice versa regarding damage kumulative and even weaken each other regarding damage in percentage.
If we can say it is bad for its alone, then it must be also bad paired with a trait which doesn’t snyergise.
Can someone translate this to English? A lot of it is meaningless gibberish.
I think I get the gist of it, but I’d like to have a better idea of what he is trying to say.
Just change my into may and it is fine. Go practise your text apprehension if you have problems with this one. Sure it is not perfect because it is not my native language. But I could have written this much more intricated.
Yor argument is invalid: power is linear increase of total damage or saturating if regarded in percentage. Those both traits my seem to have a synergie for inexpert overlooking. But Trait 1 is similar strong without trait 2 and vice versa regarding damage kumulative and even weaken each other regarding damage in percentage.
If we can say it is bad for its alone, then it must be also bad paired with a trait which doesn’t snyergise.
I don’t like any trait x % converted to y on engineer. Imo engi does not profit well from maxing stats like for example warrior does. I also don’t like self regulated defenses… it just can kill you with conditions. Maybe pick both protection traits and a protection duration rune with additional protection source if you pick support rune anyway.
And last but not least I don’t like castrated cleric builds. Celestial scales so well in PvE/WvW mode, and it fits perfect for a support engi.
Yes but FT is still useless. They should give back the old juggernaut with perma stability while in FT. Else they can’t bring any sence behind this Kit.
If you are just hiding with your good guildies and deny any bad party – then sorry mate, then you are not a good – okay let’s say excellent player.
Someone can have a brilliant mind but be a bad teacher, or simply not want to teach.
He can have a brilliant mind but mind is not the only value which is going into “beeing good” or not.
Anyway it has less to do with teaching, more with carrying people. If you are superior you are also able to carry bad players. This requires much more skill then achiving good results with other good players.
Your ability to teach new players has no barring on you being a good player or not. And yes, stealth works even with newbies, but some are just awful at everything and if they are so bad that they can’t even follow directions, that should be apparent from an earlier fractal.
You are wrong good Sir. Your ability to handle bad players in your team is also an indicator of how good you are. Playing with good mates – that is easy. Winning easy games – not have to be good for that. Not only true for gw2, good players, or let’s say excellent players do also have success with bad players or in the aspect of PvP they also win with bad players more often then others.
If you are just hiding with your good guildies and deny any bad party – then sorry mate, then you are not a good – okay let’s say excellent player.
If your group is that bad, you shouldn’t have gotten all the way to dredge with them. Leave early while you still can.
For me good players are those who can even carry those really bad ones. So if your attitude is to leave – well for me you aren’t a good player then. Bad allies happen in pug groups. Deal with it.
Back to topic: for me stealth works well even with bad pugs.
I just say: " guys come close to me I stealth. Don’t leave circle until it ends"
This always worked for me. Sometimes not for the first try but at the latest at the second try.
I agree with the cosmetical problems on engineer. I don’t agree with your opinion in build diversity. Engineer has in my opinion the best build diversity of all classes. Not saying we have great build diversity, but better diversity then others.
First of all, doe we speak about removing all 20 points from alchemie? Because then we also lose our vigor which is preaty engineers defense: dodging. Also Hidden Elixir B is a nice damage booster.
Btw; Engineer is weak in condition removes outside of HGH. Removing those points in alchemie also removes one source of condition remove.
Let’s regard your purposed alternatives: Target the weak is nice but most competitive engineer builds are about conditions. Engineer has not much proc on crit effects. Bleeding? This trait gives between 1-3 bleeds depending on your crit chance. Idc if my bleed on crit is around 0,2 less or something like that. Piercing shot pistols is a kitten trait. Only pistol #1 and #2 profit from this. And pistol #1 should anyway not be used. Definitly not worth in any competitiv build.
Inventions: AMR is great. Thats all to say here. Nothing good in this trait line imo. Definitly less surviveability then Alchemie imo.
Tools: Idk. I used to play with 15 points in tools in pvp. Nothing more to get there imo.
A serious PvP build without grenades or bombs is not possible.
I hate definitive statements like that. Grenades and Bombs are all well and good but they aren’t the end all be all, that’s for sure.
To be honest, I do also hate this. But: they are (sadly) our one and only choice to be serious. Ofc you can make build “work” maybe you can make builds “solid” without grenades or bombs. But for the high end competition you will need one of those kits. Period.
To add my two-cents to this discussion, I would say that a serious DAMAGE ORIENTED build without Grenades/Bombs is not possible.
While I personally do run Bomb Kit, I feel you can definitely play CC/Bunker builds without either Bomb or Grenades at high-end tPvP
Okay I may agree with this. But I am preaty sure guard is still on the top in this role.
A serious PvP build without grenades or bombs is not possible.
I hate definitive statements like that. Grenades and Bombs are all well and good but they aren’t the end all be all, that’s for sure.
To be honest, I do also hate this. But: they are (sadly) our one and only choice to be serious. Ofc you can make build “work” maybe you can make builds “solid” without grenades or bombs. But for the high end competition you will need one of those kits. Period.
