@LOCO
not only is it the usual suspects but most those suspects are guardians and warriors that don’t think they can facestomp us enough as it is.
Babel you miss the point. People claim to have 2k tough and be hit for more than I am
8k backstabs on glass cannon target do not bother me even a single bit. If i wanted he would never even had a chance to land one.I was not demonstrating the opness of backstab, i demonstrated the contradiction that exists on this forum.
PS. I am not backstab thief I was simply wearing my unsigiled daggers to prevent accidental killing of my opponent with my uberguns and also to demonstrate the ostats that thief was most likely to have
Also i would like to add that i haven’t actually seen any evidence of what their stats really are through screenshots. All they have are just words, and words mean nothing without evidence.
next time I go down I’ll screen shot the combat logs and post a link to them (I honestly will).
combat log is not enough to judge the whole situation and therefore invalid, post the whole screen with ur stats, their stats, your build, their build and the exact situation that it happened. Better yet, post a video.
There’s a video of the Quip on youtube. But seriously, if u have it equiped, no one will take u seriously, its shoots streamers and balloons, a weapon for a clown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IKl0_iPyUQ
Aren’t you the warrior who just 1 page ago was saying you can kill thieves in a single whirlwind attack? And that’s an AoE attack…
Stop picking apart his argument, you’ll hurt his ego. Also you’ll probably won’t be able to find evidence of that post because Moshy is a repeat offender or deleting his own incriminating posts.
@Moshy:
We are willing to discuss balancing thieves, but all you other classes do is gloss over our suggestions and continue on your merry little nerfstomp. I’ve made my suggestions many times and not once has anyone made a comment about it.
I have read many accusations over the past few days saying that most of us are quote “riding the OP train” and that we only think we are good and we care nothing for game balance. Well in this thread we will prove them wrong. I believe that the core issue is the ease of execution of the Backstab Combo, here’s what I think Anet should do about it:
1: Make steal interrupt casting or give steal an aftercast delay
2: Make steal unable to apply any Utility venom (serpent’s touch trait will still work)
3: Remove quickness from the game or reduce the speed boost to 50% faster instead of the 100% faster that it is now
and most of all FIX THE KITTEN RENDERING ISSUES
also, you’re backpedaling when confronted by facts, and changing your argument on the spot. if you’re going to take a stance, you should probably make sure you have the correct information, and make a rock solid argument. instead of moving the goal posts every time you’re proven to be incorrect.
Yea, I’ve seen it several times with Mosh, every time he’s proven wrong, he goes back and deletes his post. I get really confused sometimes when people quote him and i can’t find the original. He doesn’t even bother admitting he’s wrong, just delete the evidence, its much easier on the ego.
I love when posts like this actually get proper discuss. Cherry love your ideas, glad you like my tag shot. I came up with it after someone said that we need something that doesn’t overlap with our other weapons and here it was, thieves can’t steal boons (flanking strike is bad). Keep up the good work and i really hope this gets implemented or considered even. +1 for everyone with constructive ideas.
I don’t use devourer venom that’s why. Builds are allowed to be altered. Ergo, I have enough slots.
So try to think outside of the copy/paste build. We don’t all use the exact same bar.
So you use a more survivable version of the bs build, kudos to you. But you’re 1 out of many.
@crewthief
I would stick with this class til the end of time. They can nerf thieves to oblivion but I will still be here because unlike many of the people on this forum, I can learn, I can adapt, I am a Thief. Who’s with me?!?!?
How often does Dark Pact and spectral grasp catch you as a thief?
That’s because those 2 skills don’t hit anything unless the target is standing completely still anyway, I swear, these complaints would lessen if Anet fixed the bugs and useless traits/skills first instead of discussing balance.
knockdown counts as a stun for stun breakers. Pretty much all cc can be taken care of by roll for initiative or withdraw
Here we go again, talking about thieves like they have a lot more skill slots than any other class. A pure bs glass cannon thief would not have roll for initative on their skill bar, they will have haste, sin sig and devourer venom. Therefore, they don’t even have a stun breaker. You also mentioned withdraw, which they might have as their heal skill, but FYI, its not a stun breaker, in fact here’s, the description from the wiki
Roll backward while healing and evade attacks. Cures immobilized, chilled, and crippled.
Healing: 3,960
So instead of just listing out skills that sound like they work, look it up before posting misleading information about our class.
Its just like the legendaries, Sunrise and Twilight look so detailed and epic whereas Incinerator looks so ordinary compared to those 2. Another example of how Anet only cares about warriors.
You listed 3 weapon sets, only two of which cant be at same time and both of them share same initiative pool. And shadowstep is an utility skill on a long cooldown.
I am full exotic zerk P/P thief with single defensive thing i have is my hide in shadows heal for quite some time now. And there was not even a single time I was one shot by anything or suffered instakill from a sole person. Where are you people coming from?
I think Mosharn is talking about one of those mythical 8 skill slot, 5 weapon set, 70 trait point thieves that everyone is complaining about. I dunno if its a group hallucination or if people just assume that multiple thieves are the same person.
Of cpurse there are alot players defending the thief. Its basiicly half of the game population right now.
From 10 Enemies i encounter in WvW there are 6 thieves, 2 mesmers, 1 guardian and 1 spot for the rest of classes. The only people i know in person which didnt rolled a thief are the ones that are afraid of loosing thier dignity.
Its just the noobclasses thief and mesmer that are totally inbalanced, compared to an elementalist or engineer they need no skill at all.
just take a look ingame look at the dude right of you, now turn left and look to the other dude, right. Srsly in WvW there are complete zergs which consist of mesmers and thieves.
[sarcasm] And WvW is the pinnacle of balance and gives a 100% completely unbiased view of the population. [/sarcasm]
The majority of people here complaining about Thieves never even heard of stun breakers .The recent video added on Thief forum is just the evidence of that.Should we take them into consideration?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZMl4S4C7Sk
The Thief is obviously OP whit that 5k Back Stab.
Warriors Eviscerate can pull the same damage and doesn’t take that much possitioning and buffing.Man nice wid !!! This video you proved that it is possible to man lived without a brain and still could write on forum.
Zero stun break only traps ??? Next time L2P your class and then maybe you will understand that without the “stun break” can not play against any class.
OK that is uncalled for, theres no need to insult people. Also, ur insulted the wrong person, the one who claims to be the ranger is Mishtif over at the “Hummm do Thief’s need a nerf?!?!” Please do some research before opening your mouth, your embarrassing us.
Thorp, there are several threads in this subforum that talk about rifles for thieves, maybe you can suggest something in those threads, so that our forums might actually reincarnate into a place where there is discussion that isn’t about nerfs.
I keep seeing people only show screenshots of the combat log or the death breakdown. However, how can we judge the situation properly and objectively, if you only give a tiny part of the scenario. Those screenshots have nothing about build, equipment, traits, circumstances, or anything else, just some numbers on a page. Then i would see the poster of those screenshots say some numbers about the stats, how do we know you didn’t make it up. Please, be more comprehensive with your screenshots.
Removing the orbs actually gives the QQ’ers more ammunition or conversely, us thieves less arguments to defend ourselves with, because we can’t say that orbs are a variable anymore. But yea, i would like all the pre-orb removal complaints to be deleted and hopefully we will have a fresh start but as i have said elsewhere, judging from the community, this subforum will be full of complaints again after a few weeks even if the old ones are deleted.
Oh, wow, Thx Sithaco for pointing that bit out, i missed it the first time reading it. Yea, Sa Da Tay, what makes you have more say in a game just because you buy gems? Buying gems doesn’t mean anything other than you have money for it. You think you’re better than us because you buy gems? Its you people that make me sick, i hate people with your mindset even more than QQ’ers and that’s saying something.
stuff
Please refrain from using Ad Hominem arguments when you don’t even know me, it only shows that you need to belittle others to feel good about yourself, its not constructive and completely unneeded.
Onto your points, the thing about the glass cannon bs thief bouncing back after failing the combo once is that:
1: you know he failed and will attempt it again
2: you would probably run away as fast as you can
Staying mobile and never stop moving is a great way to counter anything really. And yes, i know thieves have more mobility than any other profession, but it doesn’t hurt to try and run away does it?
This subforum was meant to be a place where thieves came to share their adventures, ask questions of their peers and discuss strategies with other thieves, all in all, a place to have fun and improve at the game. But right now, its become the most popular place on the forums for complaints, whines and QQs. Right now, this place looks exactly like the rogue forums in WoW. Why has it come to this?
@Mosharn
Please refrain from posting if u have no idea what you are talking about, you’ll only embarrass yourself and undermines your argument, however invalid it already is.
I think what Anet should be doing is fixing all the bugs and useless/unviable traits/skills before talking anything about balance. This will open up the options for every class which may (but most likely not, judging from the community) stop the whining because they may have a way to counter. Even if they are looking to balance, it should not be done around WvW which is based on unbalanced wars (like in real life).
Its not the raw damage spike that everyone is complaining about, its the gimmicky and swift execution of said combo. Any of these 2 things can be done to make execution harder:
1: make steal interrupt casting (same should go for any other skill that has a teleport with a secondary effect)
2: make steal not apply basilisk venom
Please Anet, if you are going to nerf raw dmg because of the complaints from the other classes, PLEASE listen to the actual thief community when it comes to buffs, e.g. p/p is completely underpowered and yet nothing has been done about it. Right now my perception of your balance teams motto is “Nerf Thieves, Buff Warriors”
I think they should either remove quickness from the game or lower the speed to maybe 50% faster instead of 100% faster.
You know, i really want this idea to develop enough to be considered, so instead of just saying whats wrong and overpowered about the weapon set he suggested, why not give suggestions or write your own, here I’ll start.
Skill 1: Piercing Shot
2 stacks of vulnerability for 5 seconds
Damage: 200
Range: 1200
Cast time: 1.5
Skill 2: Cripple Shot
3 sec cripple
Damage: 100
Range: 1200
cast time: 1 second
Initiative Cost: 4
Skill 3: Tag Shot
Rips boons from target and grants them to allies around the target
Damage: 100
Range: 1200
Radius: 200
Cast time: 1.5
Initiative Cost: 5
Skill 4: Venom Shot
3 second poison
Damage: 250
Cast time: 1 second
Initiative Cost: 5
Skill 5: Vanish – Gain stealth and swiftness
Stealth duration: 2 seconds
Swiftness duration: 5 seconds
Initiative cost: 8
I would probably also add that all skills do 15% more dmg if you are standing still, meaning that u have to trade mobility for dmg. Note: these numbers are arbitrary and are just there for reference.
I would agree to steal interrupting cast and i think the same should go for any skill that isn’t simply a blink but also has some secondary effect such as dmg or condition. It would make the combo harder to execute which is what everyone is arguing about
I think your ideas are great but they’re a bit ambitious. Also illusions should be left mesmers, maybe #5 can just be an escape skill, maybe stealth+swiftness. The vulnerability is a bit short though, and the venom ammunition doesn’t make sense. Also i would actually classify it as a rifle and a 2h weapon so no dual skills.
If we ever get a rifle with a sniping skillset, it would be my new favourite weapon
Well thats the thing about sniper rifles, u hear the bang but u can’t see where the bullet came from. Ive played a warrior so i know how loud it can get but to offset that the thief riflr can hav high dmg shots with long cast times from 1200 range, just like in real life where a sniper waits for the exact moment thats just right to shoot.
Wow, and here i thought i was a major advocate for thieves standing up for themselves but there are major problems with this initiative.
1: this is most major issue, Not all thieves buy gems or buy stuff from the gem store, i for one do not do so
2: boycotting them prematurely is very bad, always has been always will be. Maybe wait for the changes to come out before doing anything drastic like this
I think petitioning for anet to fix all the bugs and uselessness first befpre ANYMORE balance changes will be our best course of action. Taking a stance is good, but this is too much.
“How about keeping that same policy for the ones wanting the nerfs, eh? This forum is often almost nothing but cries for nerfs, to the point where players of the class cannot have a discussion.
Edit: In fact, just delete ALL of the people demanding nerfs. That’s not what this forum is for.”
I second this,
My post calling for the new backstab nerf thread to be deleted got deleted, so unfair
I agree with:
1: steal interrupts the current action
2: steal not applying basilisk venom
3: nerfing mug slightly maybe 10-15% less dmg
@Doomdesire, Thank You, this is what i have been trying to do since the pistol whip nerf. Thank You for speaking out and rallying other people to speak up. I’m sure if enough actual thieves speak up against these nerfs, Anet will have to listen.
I have read every forum on the website and this is the place with the single most complaints, there’s minimal complaints in the other class forums and minimal complaints in the sPVP forums. Why is it that everyone hates thieves? Just because you get killed by a thief in WvW doesn’t mean that we need to get nerfed. I have gotten killed my almost every class, but that doesn’t give me a free ticket to go to their forums to complain, because i know that i can improve. I really wish that there was some sort of system that limited the amount of people that complain to those that have legitimately tried everything they can to counter that thief. Or at least a system that stops the qq’ers from spreading misinformation and blurring the situation to justify themselves.
@sorrow:
I like how you jumped straight into saying he’s wrong about the gameplay when his post is more about how people that QQ are just whiners who want to make the game easier for themselves and harder for others due to the need for instant gratification. He just used that as an example. But i guess you can’t really talk about the deeper psychological aspects of gaming to a bunch of spoiled children.
Hey, guys why don’t we go whine on the other classes forums about their skills, it would be fun? Better yet, we can whine about their class mechanics. i’m off to complain about necro’s death shroud, see you guys in a bit.
Oh, are are you guys moving onto Steal now after your whining about glass cannon thief builds and pistol whip? Just sayin’. I saw a thread about Dagger Storm the other day, i wonder why you guys haven’t moved onto maybe, I don’t know, thieves being able to attack when they see a hostile target.?
How would you guys like it if we went onto your forums and cried for nerfs based on reasons that don’t even make sense.
I read this forum nearly daily because i want to see if anyone is posting something for thieves, by thieves. but i am disappointed time and time again. By my guess, there are more of every other class on this forum whining about thieves, than actual thieves. And us thieves are sick and tired of wasting our time speaking reason which falls on deaf ears.
Dear Mods:
Please, I beg you, read all the topics and delete or lock those that are just people whining about thieves, because they are in the wrong section. The thief forum is meant to be a place of thieves, for thieves and by thieves.
Thank You
OMG, NO, everyone stop posting these pics. yes, its fun showing off how hard you can hit, but it only adds to the argument of the people that think thieves are OP. AND it gives a really easy resource base for the qq’ers and whiners to find pictures of thieves hitting for the so called “OP damage”
edit: if you want to post these fun threads, do it over on reddit, where the people whine less and are all about the fun of the game.
(edited by FrozenLuv.6017)
I propose that for one day that shall be determined by this thread, every single thief in the game will roll another character or play an alt. For 24hrs, there will be no thieves. The purpose of this is to simulate to the other classes (especially the qq’ers and whiners) what it would be like if the thief class keeps getting unnecessary nerfs. This will show the community how much they are losing out by making this class more and more useless. Eventually, every thief bar a handful will either quit the class and reroll or quit the game because they got nerfbatted too many times.
Seriously, we are being forced into a corner, we need to take action!!!
oh wow, i can’t believe everyone is taking this thread seriously, when i first read the op’s post, i thought it was a troll like how people are calling the 3rd sword skill, Stab, was OP and was able to hit for over 100k when you had 50 stacks of might. But it is true, anything with a pistol except for s/p needs to be looked at and reworked accordingly. accordingly as in not caving in to the people that whine on the forums about thieves being OP and making unnecessary nerfs.
Namu, i would like to remind you that backstab can also be sidestepped, or are you one of those manly men who tank each and everything thrown at you and expect to live?
I request that someone lock this thread. All the arguments are repetitive. I would also like to make a request that bugs should be prioritised before balance changes.
Hey, guys! i have a great idea, Lets nerf every single skill on every single profession and go back to hitting each other with foam clubs and water guns. Oh wait, that’s how mmos are ruined.
In all seriousness, nerfing a class because of the community whining is not the way to go with it. In the end, a nerf to a skill does achieve much. yea sure, the people who do the high burst dmg do less dmg, but wot about the people who don’t do full burst but still use that skill, they would be doing no dmg. and good players will learn to adapt and find new ways to burst you down because u are caught out of position.
You can nerf the skills and the class, but you can’t nerf the player.
Ojimaru is correct, the trait only works on the passive component
Gather round kiddies for I have a story to tell
Once upon a time there was a WoW clone called Allods online, and in it lived a special creature called a psionicist. They were a finicky beast with fiddly combos of skills; telekinetic pulls, time manipulation, illusions, controls and psychic assaults.
They were difficult to play and faired relatively poorly in PvE, but in PvP they really shone – all the other classes could only stand in awe, crying out “OMG NERF PSI”, even the faceroller classes like melee healer and summoner, for in this class they found a worthy adversary, even if they were numerically the rarest class.
Astrum Nival listened to their players and did as they said; every balance patch came along, and the developers nerfed another of Psionicists skills, and more players would abandon the class. But every patch the remaining psioncists would adapt, and the following night in the arena the other classes would one more scream “nerf psionicist”.
Eventually, the class was utterly nerfed into ruination, with hardly a single build that worked and so few players left they were literally known by name to the players of the North American servers, yet these scarce few remained a force to be reckoned with in the PvP arena.
The mistake everyone had made was believing that psionicist, with it’s confusing playstyle and complex skill interactions was overpowered at all; instead the classes complexity had drawn the strategists, tacticians and thinkers, with every nerf they simply refined the pool, and as it ultimately turned out, you can’t nerf a smart player.
Let that be a lesson. You can take the skills out of the class, but you can’t take the skill out of a player, and classes like the mesmer will always attract a different breed of player, one who could probably defeat a hundreds blade warrior armed with nothing more than a rusty piece of metal and a blob of gunk.
This guy deserves a medal for making so much sense. but seriously what he says its true, the game is balanced quite well already. Instead of suggesting changes, we should be petitioning Anet to FIX THE BUGS first.
Well, I think that this is just bad wording in the tool tip. I think it confuses your enemy by summoning a clone, not actually giving the confusion condition. they should really change the wording.
However in the case that this is an actual bug, i think it should be fixed ASAP as missing the confusion part of the skill makes it extremely underwhelming
the people that keep coming up with these threads IMO are stuck in the old mindset of MMOs, in which they find the ‘best’ build and proceed to use that even though it doesn’t suit their play style. the only thing i hav to say to answer the OP’s question is: because it suits my play style.
Also, Leaf, which skill for lb roots you?
Elric of Grans.7684
Then why does not every class have every single weapon? It is not about whether or not they actually need them, it is about the choice.
THAT’S A GREAT IDEA, no sarcasm, i’m loving the way you think more and more
Once again, i must reiterate that its not about the NEED of a rifle, but about having the CHOICE of a rifle. It doesn’t even need to be implemented in the short run. It would just be nice to being able CHOOSE the rifle as a weapon set.