Guild Wars 2

AtoBoss.2906:

Sigh, another whiner who cant buy that item he/she wants off the TP, so has a cry on forums. It’s a simple case of buying cheap/in bulks and selling expensive? What is so hard to understand…

While I’m not going to argue that flipping is the easiest way to make gold I’d ask you to consider the fact that some people just aren’t willing to engage in this kind of arguably unethical behavior.

As a flipper the only contribution to the market space you make is getting between buyers and sellers and raising prices so you can benefit from the work of others. That is something you have to accept when flipping and not everybody is willing to do that.

The only legendary I actually like the look of would be the Incinerator. I find most of them to be way too gaudy looking.

Reintroducing some of these rare items periodically would help curb the issue. The current trend is to buy entire batches of limited items and then relist them for ridiculous prices. This places all the power in the hands of the already wealthy players since they’re the only ones with the capital to pull it off consistently. As time goes on this gap is only going to increase as there really isn’t any way to compete with power trading.

And no, I don’t blame players for doing this. It’s the only viable way of making actual profit.

I approve of the downed state. I do not approve of stomping. It favors classes with easy access to stealth and stability far too much.

You will be stomped by anyone with stability or stealth. There is just no countering it. That said, against people who do not have access to this cheese a downed necromancer can be really difficult to deal with.

But yeah, the downed state is just extremely poorly balanced overall at the moment.

The biggest problem with stealth right now is that stealthed players can stomp. Initiating a stomp should by all means break the stealth so downed players get a fair chance to use their interrupt. This obviously isn’t as much of an issue if you’re packing an AoE interrupt.

It does seem like a lot of the suggestions from actual necromancers went by largely ignored. I’m going to give them a chance to rectify this situation once the tournament has concluded as I realize that they’re in a very stressful spot at the moment. But if things aren’t fixed within a reasonable time frame I will be looking for greener pastures.

The balancing is just too schizophrenic and I can’t help but find it to be in exceedingly poor taste to let other classes dictate the balance of the necromancer. It will just lead to a vicious circle of players screaming for nerfs instead of looking for ways to improve their own class. After all, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

We really need class representatives.

Atherakhia.4086:

Make it do the same damage as poison and put revealed on the target for the duration of the burn.

You. I like you.

Allie Murdock.8152:

This does NOT mean that we ignore the Necromancer forums. This does NOT mean we don’t make changes that benefit PvE. This does NOT mean we don’t have hotfixes specifically to help PvE players.

Those words come across as rather empty considering we’ve had the same PvE meta since launch. There is still no point in bringing over half of the classes to a dungeon and yet nobody is rushing to hotfix that. But I digress as this is clearly the wrong forum to discuss PvE balance in. And yes, I realize it’s not your responsibility to begin with.

What ticks many necromancers off is that this is just a straight up nerf which solves absolutely nothing for us. If it was so easy to hotfix Dhuumfire and cut its effectiveness in half why couldn’t the terror nerf have been reverted too? To give us Dhuumfire and then nerf everything else until finally looking at the source of all these issues and cutting its effectiveness in half… surely you can understand why some of us aren’t too happy about this? You pretty much forced everyone to rely on Dhuumfire by nerfing everything else and then just killed it. This was not some minor nerf, this was halving the effective duration of a grand master trait in a hotfix and I do believe that is unprecedented.

This has been handled exceedingly poorly overall and many builds which didn’t even utilize Dhuumfire have been gunned down in the hail of nerf bullets. Right now our only hope is that the other nerfs will be reverted and that Dhuumfire will be scrapped entirely. Don’t bother adding new traits until the old ones have been addressed. Hopefully once this tournament madness has subsided we’ll see some actual balancing done. I wish you all the best of luck in this.

Just tested it. Yep, it’s a tooltip bug alright. Whew, was worried there for a minute. Will shut this thread down now… or not.

I just found it hysterical how they claim they’re not into whack-a-mole balancing and then proceed to nerf a grand master trait by 50% in a hotfix. This followed by several other nerfs to the class as a whole, including one to terror which was only made due to how strong the combination of it and the yet to be nerfed Dhuumfire was.

It defies all reason.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

I can’t believe this is hard for people to understand. Necromancers have access to Terror and Burning. Burning is the second most powerful condition in the game, next to terror. The fact that with one instant cast skill (Doom), they can apply both, is crazy. Engineers cannot do this. Again:

In one instant skill, they can apply CC and huge damage. Then can then follow this up with more fear and AoE torment.

You can’t compare skill across classes, even if they are exact copies of each other. You prove how little you know about balancing when you do this.

In short: That trait isn’t OP on it’s own. It’s OP because it has terror in the same class.

The point here is that they repackaged the adept trait of another class, shipped it off to necromancers in the form of a grand master trait and then proceeded to nerf it into oblivion. If you can’t appreciate the humor in that I don’t know what to tell you.

And yes, most necromancers would agree that Dumbfire was a dumb, dumb trait to begin with. We never asked for this.

Cogbyrn.7283:

“Warriors have other CC anyway”.

But isn’t that exactly what the FotM spec for warriors is all about?

Somoe.3621:

Because Engi and Necro are the exact same class… right?

Not at all. They have ways to avoid getting assist trained to death.

A grand master trait being significantly worse than an adept trait?

Get me off this crazy balance ride.

Lopez.7369:

I think Dhuumfire is still worth it, mostly because nothing else in our trees is really that great.

We do have way too many trash traits. The fact that reanimator still hasn’t been addressed is just baffling.

The Boz.2038:

…so the only result of a “constructive” thread is a nerf?
Great.

How constructive did you expect a thread regarding the balance of a single class to get on the SPvP forum of all places?

While it’s nice to see some actual communication between players and developers this was the wrong avenue for it altogether. This is a discussion which should be held with players who knows the ins and outs of the class. There have been tons of superb suggestions for changes related to Dhuumfire and the overall balance on the necromancer forum and yet that goes completely ignored in favor of rabblerabblenerfeverything. It’s ridiculous.

Shar.3402:

lol, nerf to the ground…for god’s sake you don’t even know how they split the trait and you’re already crying.
BTW, I don’t think they took everything away from necros when they buffed them from zero to hero last month. What was that? give and take? lol.

I do hope you appreciate the irony in you pointing out that I’m crying considering you’ve been one of the most vocal QQers on here in regards to necromancers.

But yes, it’s a matter of giving and taking. We can’t even properly do certain dungeons anymore due to the shroud getting nerfed on account of the incessant SPvP whining. I don’t mind the splitting myself. In fact, I find it long overdue. What I do mind is that it’s just another nerf followed by more promises.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Constructive-necromancer-thoughts/page/8#post2495320

At least they had the wisdom to split it.

Chrispytoast.3698:

Nothing is ever good enough for you. Have you read this entire thread? I have read a large majority of it and many of the posts involve a nerf to the Necro damage. And want to get rid of fire completely but as she said this is a hotfix for the tournament and more changes will come later.

Usually you give and take. You don’t nerf a class into the ground and promise to fix it later. This is bad design, plain and simple.

So more nerfs and no compensation? Not even undoing the terror nerf?

… Thanks?

Kravick.4906:

Can’t you just get rid of it? Go look at the necro sub forum. There is an overwhelming outcry from us that we never wanted burning in the first place. It doesn’t fit the classes theme, its already gotten several of our traits nerfed as a result, and its causing nothing but trouble for everyone.

I guess we can hope that’s the plan with this supposed rework. I’ve never had much love for Dumbfire. But that would necessitate reverting the other nerfs which I don’t foresee happening at this point.

If ArenaNet is actually serious about wanting to balance things here they need to talk to necromancers and not a bunch of elementalists crying for nerfs for everyone they can’t instantly burst down. Their attitude has me very worried and trying to balance the game around 1v1 is just ridiculous. While necromancers are indeed powerful facing single opponents we fold like paper when up against organized groups since we have no tools to deal with being assist trained.

RoRo.8270:

The reason they don’t have dueling is because the game is balanced around team fights. Yes people state dueling is just for fun but we all know as soon as dueling is implemented everyone will come to the forums screaming “x” class is op, nerf, etc

This is already happening. See all the crying about necromancers.

At this rate I’m almost hoping that dueling will never be implemented. We’re already seeing enough attempted balancing around dueling rather than actually relevant gameplay.

Dagger autoattack is sadly still much better for damage. And while it does indeed require you to be in melee range life blast requires you to be very close too in order to receive the damage boost. I think it could use a faster cast time. It really should outdamage dagger spamming.

The teleport needs to be a true teleport and work exactly like the mesmer portal does. To prevent abuse the necromancer should have to spawn it by his feet. Then and only then would I consider it a good utility.

Regardless of skill level there is currently no way for a necromancer to avoid being assist trained. This is the undeniable truth and sooner or later you will hit that wall as a necromancer and at that point you will have two choices. Keep slamming your head against it or reroll.

This is clearly an issue and should be addressed. While I fully understand that necromancers are very strong in duels the game should not be balanced around duels. It should be balanced around relevant content.

Kiel’s naivety and inability to compromise would lead to a weaker Lion’s Arch. Sure, Evon’s methods might be underhanded but he knows how to get results and he brings a tremendous amount of buying power to the table. A vote for Gnashblade is a vote for rationality.

Solo as a necromancer is easy. Just equip dagger for dark pact and use spectral grasp to pull.

How about instead of the stupid mist walker form they have dead players possess a karka? Would certainly be a lot more entertaining than collecting motes.

I like it but the mist walker form is just idiotic. It’s boring, thrives on pettiness and brings out the absolute worst in players. It doesn’t matter how skilled of a survivor you are – kill enough players and they will invariably gang up on you with pick pocket traps and karka spawns.

Right now the best strategy is to simply hoard supplies and then hide out and it makes for some seriously underwhelming gameplay.

The spawn rate seems bugged.

Don’t expect them to come in here anytime soon. They’re too busy soaking up the praise from the meta classes to pay attention to us lowly peasants.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Let’s brainstorm some scenarios if we did this, FOR SCIENCE!

If death shroud = survivability, and we allowed necros to have death shroud from the start, then how could that change how necros play? How would this affect certain maps and the balance of those maps? How would this affect the meta? How would this affect other classes?

Also, if we gave necros death shroud, should we give warriors adrenaline? Should we give thieves initiative? Should we give everyone everything they ever wanted?

Ultimately, what I’m looking for is the reasoning, and why you feel this would be a positive change for the game. I’m curious, because it’s easy to say “I want, I want” without saying why.

Because the necromancer lacks other means to mitigate damage. We have no blocks, evades or vigor. None. Everybody else does but us.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor

Can you explain to us how this is balanced? Right now there is no way for a necromancer to avoid being assist trained and yet we keep getting our survivability nerfed. It makes no sense.

Nemesis.8593:

I am absolutely sure that 95% of the people that dare claim necromancers deserved these nerfs have never been in a tournament game vs ranks 55+, not once.

The combat is a lot different… basically it’s a few moves all rounded in 5-6 seconds. They dodge block evade immune invulnerable block stealth then… stun daze moa ranger root stun stun knockdown daze KILL YOU then… they stealth charge / leap / teleport / blabla… then they run away.

Necromancer can’t run away, can’t escape… can’t chase… can’t survive guaranteed for the next 10 seconds until someone else shows up, unlike any other class in the game.

Basically it’s like this… you fight someone for about 20 seconds and using superior skill you go through 2 full on cleanses 2 evades 2 stealths / 2 blocks / 2 dodges / a few CCs and or some invulnerable / immune effects… THEN and ONLY THEN do you have a chance to actually start making progress. If your skill is high enough you can THEN proceed to kill your target, if you are still alive then…

You finally get him down… you are about to stomp, he teleports stealths knockdowns a few times and a few more fun stuff… which puts you at ~ 25/30 seconds about now.
Just as you are about to finally win because you deserve it… 2 players show up, knockdown you a few times if need be… you watch helplessly as they stealth/mist form + stability revive the person you just killed…

You proceed to run away only to have them on you in half a second… stun daze stun stun dead… by the time you can press FEAR you are already quickness stomped, or… and this is more likely, they will have stability…

Not only do we not have stability stomp, we also can’t delay stomps to prolong combat so that someone else shows up.

If you focus any class in this game, if they are smart they can escape, focus the necromancer it’s a free kill…
Now… it’s even worse…

This post really needs to be quoted more on here because it perfectly mirrors the frustrations of playing a necromancer against opponents who actually know what they are doing. While I haven’t done much in the way of TPvP myself due to being more of a WvWvW player I have thoroughly explored just about every build available to us since launch in PvP and PvE and it’s staggering just how many essential tools we lack when compared to the other classes. There are some hurdles we simply cannot overcome as a class until those tools are implemented.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Because if it’s a NECRO blocking damage it’s an exploit.
Now I get what you mean.

Now you’re getting what balance is all about. If a necromancer does something successfully it’s unbalanced since necromancers are intended to be terrible.

Uh oh, guess I shouldn’t have asked them to pay attention to the necromancer forum.

Make life force automatically regenerate up to a point when shroud isn’t active. Maybe 25%?

Roy Cronacher.1576:

We care about all professions. =)

Then maybe you should pay some attention to the necromancer forum. You know, the class you effectively ruined with this patch.

Give a class something they don’t really need. In this case burning.

Use said gift as a justification to nerf the class’ core mechanics into oblivion.

BALANCE!

Cogbyrn.7283:

Maybe because it’s an unreliable and unintended means for preventing damage.

Maybe you’re going to receive another means of preventing damage to compensate.

Then maybe they should have held off on this fix until we have those tools.

As it stands, our class lies broken and dead. And knowing their schedule it will take months before we see any kind of compensation. This kind of harebrained balancing is simply not acceptable for a supposed AAA MMO.

They really ought to hand out all necromancers complimentary class change tokens at this point. I foresee a lot of people quitting over these idiotic changes.

And to illustrate my point.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

Note that every other class in the game is represented while one is conspicuously absent. And now our one way of meaningfully preventing damage is GONE.

Evagal.2584:

How did it not ALREADY do this? In fact, I assumed that it DID already do this. You can have 10% lifeforce and swap into deathshroud to eat an entire eviscerate? Is that what is implied without the change? (On live now?) If so,that is EXTREMELY stupid. Lifeforce acts as a second life bar with some utility abilities..why would it NOT pool into your base life bar if it ran out during an attack?

How exactly is it stupid to let necromancers block damage when every other class is capable of doing it? We don’t have blocks. We don’t have vigor. We don’t have evades. What are we supposed to do to mitigate damage now?

Bhawb.7408:

Terror was nerfed because Dhuumfire+terror was too strong. Except now you need Dhuumfire to be a condi necro.

Pretty much every nerf came as a result of Dumbfire. Our survivability took a hit along with all our other build options – all in the name of combating ONE overpowered combination. They don’t seem to realize just how much they’re hurting other builds here and that is what truly frightens me.

At this point I’m convinced that Dumbfire just needs to go. Burning isn’t worth the destruction of the entire class.

Couldn’t they at least have made dark path an instant teleport before mucking with its range? It’s useless enough as is with how easy it is to dodge. With some kind of compensation to our mobility and overall survivability these changes wouldn’t have been nearly as difficult to swallow but right now all I see here is pure, unadulterated doom.

Are we really going to have to spend months as a broken class again before getting the attention we need?

ronpierce.2760:

So, what I don’t get is… (And I didnt even use spectral skills) But spectral skills made taking damage keep you alive through it while in DS if hit by a lot of people… So me row had some Zerg defense…? What about almost every thief move that has a passive evade on it that completely negates all damage? I’m not seeing the logic.

That’s because there is no logic at work here. The whole thing reads as a knee-jerk reaction to the community’s inability to adapt to a new meta. We’re simply not allowed to be a good or competitive class. And in the way of gunning for our top spec they also managed to gun down several less popular specs. If Dumbfire was such a huge issue then Dumbfire should have been removed. There was absolutely no reason to mutilate shroud like this when we’re already struggling with survivability.

I’d like to see stealth be given to necromancers on spectral walk now that our survivability from shroud has been obliterated. We really need a way to avoid the assist train more than ever now.

bravoart.5308:

Necro patch notes tl:dr version:

• Necromancers were actually being played and seen outside of Lion’s Arch. This has been fixed.

Meanwhile more buffs to mesmers and guardians because we all know nobody plays those!

I cannot believe the stupidity of this patch. They actually killed the class. And we were finally a viable choice too.

Guess it’s time to either reroll or quit.