Guild Wars 2

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

So tactical use of terrain is an exploit now?

What’s next? Using Heal Skills is an exploit?

Jumping outside of the map to complete a dungeon in 5-10 minutes is an exploit, yes.

There is nothing challenging in GW2, thus your conclusion is invalid.

And it’s kind of hard to ban people exploiting dungeons don’t you think? Even the CoE / Arah / HotW exploits take / took more than 5min, and you can easily do AC path 1 in that time. Thus they can’t monitor anyone simply doing a fast run.

The only way to fix exploits is through better dungeon design, i.e. make bosses not spawn if the previous boss has not been killed.

transtemporal.2158:

Gab Superstar.4059:

transtemporal.2158:

Since the portal nerf, portals are easy to defend against, even with a smaller force. Arrow cart, aoe dmg, aoe push/pull when you see the exit. It’s not much more complicated than that.

If you place the portal in direct LOS of the enemy you deserve to die.

Most decent mesmers don’t, however.

Your tiers mesmers must be better than ours then. We’re only tier 1, what would we know.

Yes I am sure the individual skill of players is what got you to tier 1.

/facepalm

tigirius.9014:

I find it fascinating that the naysayers who claim that these classes aren’t op play those two classes themselves. Yeah that’s unbiased.

Let me bring it into perspective for you. So long as only two classes can 1-2 shot people, there will be imbalance. All classes need the ability to do that and so far I’m not seeing it. If an outsider can see the imbalance then there’s definitely an imbalance because I’m not posting because someone killed me or because I play that class in pvp and want to keep the power going for the class, I’m posting because I know this is one of the major problems. It’s not the class it’s that they allowed only two classes this setup in the game. That’s what’s op about it and that’s the imbalance.

Yeah. And every class needs the ability to portal teams into keeps. And every class needs the health pool of a warrior. And every class needs the boon upkeep of a guardian. And every class needs the conditions of a necro. And every class needs the…

See where I am going?

EDIT: Also, not a very good or interesting video, sorry.

transtemporal.2158:

Since the portal nerf, portals are easy to defend against, even with a smaller force. Arrow cart, aoe dmg, aoe push/pull when you see the exit. It’s not much more complicated than that.

If you place the portal in direct LOS of the enemy you deserve to die.

Most decent mesmers don’t, however.

Yes… Yes.

15 trash mobs

ExZee.8109:

ROFL. Another typical personal reaction. You are exactly the type of person to be out on the front whining about a profession when you realize it’s OP because I can do it and you can’t. But why bother making videos when Youtube is literally flooded with thief videos? Why don’t you go and look at a Wild Bill video or even Flimp’s latest one with a thief as his partner, then why don’t YOU write a “minor essay” whining about everything’s imbalanced because they can do things you can’t.

Looked at one of his videos. Couldn’t find anything that relates to this discussion. Mostly 1v2’s in remote locations and even the JP? What, exactly, is he bringing to his team, apart from a longer queue?

ExZee.8109:

Clearly a L2R issue. 1. “it’s gotten to the point anet made its own thread about thief gameplay”.

Yes, Arena Net has made many threads regarding many things. So what? And even then, most of that talk is talk about thieves killing people who run around alone in WvWvW, aka completely irrelevant.

ExZee.8109:

2. “others are trying to discuss ways to either balance or change the thief so that it’s actually fun for the majority of users playing against thieves and not just the thieves themselves”. And the ultimate argument: http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/counter-play

Whoever made that video sounds just like you. Like a whiny little kid that is.
I also haven’t seen a sniper in GW2. If you do please tell me cause that would be interesting.

ExZee.8109:

And I don’t give a kitten what you feel about anything, so there you go. And the majority of mesmer complaints is not clones, that’s your lack of skill whining about not knowing how to use ctrl + T. If you don’t even know what the problems are, I suggest you don’t go blabbering your mouth about it until you do your homework.

The culling that affects clones, not clones themselves. And I’m done with my homework for tonight.

ExZee.8109:

Oh yeah, that SR with 15 second stealth, 30 CD heal with 3 second stealth, and 3 second CnD stealth. Without traits. I’m a mesmer who thinks 3 second decoy, 3 second Prestige, and 5 second mass invis is borderline OP. But let’s just continue arguing numbers and theorycrafting in a discussion where it has absolutely no ground to stand on.

15 second stealth? Yeah, god forbid someone actually knocks the thief out of SR, or uses AoE in that cute little circle. It’s especially funny considering you are a mesmer yourself, lolz.

ExZee.8109:

Go ahead. Keep making a fool out of yourself. Keeps me entertained.

Good thing you are entertained by something. I am sure getting owned by thieves all day can’t be entertaining in the slightest.

ExZee.8109:

Learn to dodge. Err, I mean play.

I’m trying to wrap my head around this sentence but I just can’t.

ExZee.8109:

Honestly, I feel silly now for trying to push logic into a teenager.

Yes, you should feel silly. But for completely different reasons lol.

Boomstin.3460:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Ehm okay. I don’t see you telling me WHY exactly stealth as a mechanic is broken, and until you do, you don’t have any argument at all.

I’m sure everything has been said already on the forums a million times. Those don’t really need to be repeated on this thread , you know very well what are the issues hes talking about.

Unless you are talking about the “OMG this thief can one hit me and still perma stealth while dealing tons of bleeding” QQ, then no, I don’t.

Enlighten me.

Mortalitas.9710:

Will some one post the score please? Also good luck to everyone this week hope to see you on the battlefield. Also anyone have a decent ranger build? Mine sucks hardcore. We should try to stay on topic also before they shut this thread down. Other wise someone post another dip recipe and let’s get it over with.

~173k, +610 *
~40k, +60
~32k +30

ExZee.8109:

1. NO, thieves CAN go into a group of people, kill a lot of people, and get away with it. A significant portion of WvWers ARE “underleveled newbs with no skill what-so-ever” and for every other profession to do the same, it requires a lot of heavy investment in defensive stats that make them impossible to do any significant DPS for the time that they’re given because they don’t have stealth abilities. This is why the second most OP profession is the mesmer, which just happens to have the second most stealth capabilities. And the logic that you need shadowstep to stomp shows how much of a newb you are too.

I implore you, go into a zerg of 80’s and kill a bunch of people before escaping safely. Why don’t you record it and show the world too. That’s right, you can’t, because you are all just bullkitten. Oh, and include a minor essay telling me what kind of damage you did to the enemy team when whoever you killed is just instantly revived.

ExZee.8109:

2. Stealth is broken. You can deny it all you want, but if you haven’t noticed it’s gotten to the point anet made its own thread about thief gameplay. While you can’t think beyond “oh no I don’t have my stealth what ever shall I do? I must stop people from trying to change things!”, others are trying to discuss ways to either balance or change the thief so that it’s actually fun for the majority of users playing against thieves and not just the thieves themselves. And DPS rotation isn’t what kills players, it’s the strategic use of said DPS rotation, which atm thieves don’t even have to worry about because of culling.

Ehm okay. I don’t see you telling me WHY exactly stealth as a mechanic is broken, and until you do, you don’t have any argument at all.

ExZee.8109:

3. You obviously haven’t been around long. And no, thieves are the worst because while only a few mesmers abuse it, ALL thieves abuse it, regardless of whether it was intentional or not.

So a majority of mesmers are not using clones? What? And thanks for the personal insult. You have every right to insult me, but I also have the right to not give a kitten about your insults, so there you go.

ExZee.8109:

4. Why is speed of any importance in getting away for a profession that has all the abilities it needs to simply go invisible? And all you’re doing is getting one example of a general gameplay and using it as the be all end all argument. I can equally argue most thieves don’t pop blind, they just go in stealth or use quickness.

Are you talking about the 60CD SR, the 30CD heal or the 6 initiative CnD? Either way you are wrong, and you probably never played a thief.

ExZee.8109:

5. I’m sorry, but there’s a problem when thieves are the “king of 1v1”. Every profession should be able to beat a thief, because the core issue of any 1v1 should be the player’s skill, not the profession’s unique abilities. The problem of QQing is when a player thinks HE should be able to beat every thief, NOT when a legitimate problem is presented with emotion. And ROFLMAO at character description. Here’s one for you:

Okay, I will petition Arena Net to give thieves portals, because I think it’s unfair only mesmers can use those. I also want the extreme mobility of D/D eles and while they are at it they can give me the health pool of a warrior and the boon upkeep from the guardian too. I mean, everyone is supposed to be equal right?

ExZee.8109:

“Rangers are proficient with the bow. They rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature to slay their targets. Their loyal pets, which rangers tame and train, distract enemies while the rangers strike safely from a distance.”

Oh yeah, I see that ranger over there but I’m too distracted trying to pet this pet to death.

TL;DR Quoted guy has absolutely no valid points, read next comment.

Maybe you are distracted from the pet immobilizing or crippling you, or maybe from his high DPS that forces you to focus on the pet instead?

Or maybe you are just a kitten who purposefully twists a text to fit your own illusions.

Lol.

Adaneshade.2409:

I’d have to state, (coming from a DAoC mindset mind you), that anything greater than 1 full party is a zerg.

I’d say anything greater than 1 player is a zerg.

That’s why [OG] never dies to anything but a zerg.

:(

Steapa.3297:

Since I am on the topic of thieves, I will choose to stay on point. As it stands they are the only class that can run into groups of enemies and down / slay multiple adversaries and simply get away. They can abuse in game rendering issues, which really aren’t the problem, the problem is the stealth mechanic itself. Have we not learned from so many other games how allowing constant stealth is not problematic? Combine this with the natural speed enhancing abilities, you have a class that can move faster than most other class builds, use it’s utility to evade any type of counter and have incredible dps. It doesn’t take the community long to see the clear advantages of this and thus the huge % of thieves. Not to pick on thieves alone, other classes certainly have structural issues as well. Just an example of how we should be looking at a broader scope of things.

1.) No, thieves can NOT go into a group and kill a lot of people and still get away with it, unless that group consists of underleveled newbs with no skill what-so-ever. And so what if you can down someone? If you are that glassy chances are you can’t stomp the target unless you use shadowstep to stomp him. Even if you managed to do so, you will have wasted all your cool downs, and for what? The person will be revived seconds later by his team.

2.) Stealth is NOT broken. Yes, it’s a unique trait that can be considered really annoying. But I would leave it at that. What could a thief possibly accomplish without stealth? In GW1 assassins worked somewhat well in PvP because you could actually kill people with your DPS rotation. In GW2 they will only assume a downed state, giving allies ample time to resurrect or kill the thief.

3.) Mesmers are even worse offenders of the culling system, and I see no one complain about them. Yes, thieves and culling is a problem, but that does not justify crying for a nerf, when I see no one at all crying for mesmers to be nerfed.

4.) Many classes have speed-enhancing abilities. I would argue however, that the thief skill is by far the one with the best on-use effect. Seriously, if you ever want to stomp a ranger / necro / warrior / engineer on a thief without dying, you are gonna have to pop the blind to prevent an interrupt. While this is nice to have, you must also understand that it takes away your speed boost. You are essentially sacrificing your chance to get away smoothly to make sure you get a stomp off. Trade offs like these are important aspects of any PvP game play.

5.) I am sorry to say this, but thieves are really the king of 1v1. I am not sorry because that’s so, but because everyone who QQ’s about them on forums seem to think that any class in the game should be able to beat them. It is clear however, if you understand the game, that this is not how it’s supposed to be. Read this;

“… They utilize surprise and shadow to get close to their enemies, and they’re deadly in one-on-one combat. …”

You might recognize it. It’s from the description of thieves in the character creation screen. Thus, if you wanted a strong 1v1 profession, you should really have created a thief, not something else. GW2 lacks a lot of things, but the uniqueness of professions is something they actually managed to do pretty well. In WvWvW, every class has their own way of accomplishing things, and different things to accomplish. This allows for a much more vivid PvP game play, and prevents many FotM builds from happening.

TLDR; Stop complaining about thieves.

Why do you want a K/D meter?

1v1 is not supposed to be balanced, and certainly does not need to be.

Inprognito.9487:

Wouldn’t it be easier just to make it so the Ele can’t go through the door while in mist form? Sounds completely fair to me.

This.

Although it always makes me laugh when an ele runs out of H2O inches away from the portal.

GuardianOMS.8067:

Yes, we are THIS bored. That is an alpha golem fighting the Veteran Wurm. Please come to Maguuma BL. Save us from ourselves.

I was there a while ago. One of our commanders promptly insisted on using two trebs and everyone on the map to siege Bluebriar that was fully upgraded instead of Redlake which had paper everything.

I sighed and joined DRBL instead.

saiyr.3071:

Nobody will ever have proof of a 100 man zerg because it will be culled

But he said he saw it!

:(

Sol.4310:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

We’ll use every advantage we can to win an engagement, while trying to keep our groups small.

So /shrug …. game on.

You run with 20+ people in an attempt to keep your group small?

Actually .. edited it because you’re really not worth it.
All OG is, is forum bravado and a few dueling specs, nothing special. We get better fights from Mag from other guilds there, we’ll continue to enjoy fights with those folks.

Video should be out of the zerg busting in a few nights once Oozo has time to mess with them. Was a fun zerg stomp, we probably had 12-14 with us consisting of 1 BSty, about 5-6 Larp/Noqq.

so 14+1 = 15
+ 6 = 21
yep 20+ which is what i said earlier >.>

No you misread, the Larp/Noqq and Bsty count is added with our total.Hence the phrase “consisting of”. So still 14ish, i’ve been informed the third group might have been full but I can think of who was in it though.

I will be sure to count when you release the video, I am 95% confident there was at least 15.

I’ll give you 15, that’s pretty small compared to a zerg of 30+.

/shrug It was a fun fight, let it go at that. Video will come when Oozo has footage and time, I bet he’s compiling footage tonight since he’s not on.

So which one ended up wiping you?

4 OG, 5 TLP or The Maguuma Pugs

Wiping would imply you killed all of us. I am pretty sure I made it out alive since I recall killing some poor OG guy on the way back to garrison.

I would rather call it a tactical retreat in the face of superior numbers.

You got wiped doesn’t matter if a person makes it out lol
We lost 99% of our forces but we didn’t wipe – DR logic

Never seen a zerg with a hundred people in it, but I think we are drifting off-topic here.

Oh I forgot you haven’t been to T4 yet.

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

DR has never had a zerg of a 100 people.

Funny DR zerged there way to Tier 5, face some numbers and skilled players and DR results to forum smack.

I used to be on DR, I have seen 100 man DR zerg……….. But one thing DR never did from lower tiers was learn some solid tactics for WvW.

You have no proof so stop making claims.

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

We’ll use every advantage we can to win an engagement, while trying to keep our groups small.

So /shrug …. game on.

You run with 20+ people in an attempt to keep your group small?

Actually .. edited it because you’re really not worth it.
All OG is, is forum bravado and a few dueling specs, nothing special. We get better fights from Mag from other guilds there, we’ll continue to enjoy fights with those folks.

Video should be out of the zerg busting in a few nights once Oozo has time to mess with them. Was a fun zerg stomp, we probably had 12-14 with us consisting of 1 BSty, about 5-6 Larp/Noqq.

so 14+1 = 15
+ 6 = 21
yep 20+ which is what i said earlier >.>

No you misread, the Larp/Noqq and Bsty count is added with our total.Hence the phrase “consisting of”. So still 14ish, i’ve been informed the third group might have been full but I can think of who was in it though.

I will be sure to count when you release the video, I am 95% confident there was at least 15.

I’ll give you 15, that’s pretty small compared to a zerg of 30+.

/shrug It was a fun fight, let it go at that. Video will come when Oozo has footage and time, I bet he’s compiling footage tonight since he’s not on.

So which one ended up wiping you?

4 OG, 5 TLP or The Maguuma Pugs

Wiping would imply you killed all of us. I am pretty sure I made it out alive since I recall killing some poor OG guy on the way back to garrison.

I would rather call it a tactical retreat in the face of superior numbers.

You got wiped doesn’t matter if a person makes it out lol
We lost 99% of our forces but we didn’t wipe – DR logic

Never seen a zerg with a hundred people in it, but I think we are drifting off-topic here.

Oh I forgot you haven’t been to T4 yet.

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

DR has never had a zerg of a 100 people.

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

We’ll use every advantage we can to win an engagement, while trying to keep our groups small.

So /shrug …. game on.

You run with 20+ people in an attempt to keep your group small?

Actually .. edited it because you’re really not worth it.
All OG is, is forum bravado and a few dueling specs, nothing special. We get better fights from Mag from other guilds there, we’ll continue to enjoy fights with those folks.

Video should be out of the zerg busting in a few nights once Oozo has time to mess with them. Was a fun zerg stomp, we probably had 12-14 with us consisting of 1 BSty, about 5-6 Larp/Noqq.

so 14+1 = 15
+ 6 = 21
yep 20+ which is what i said earlier >.>

No you misread, the Larp/Noqq and Bsty count is added with our total.Hence the phrase “consisting of”. So still 14ish, i’ve been informed the third group might have been full but I can think of who was in it though.

I will be sure to count when you release the video, I am 95% confident there was at least 15.

I’ll give you 15, that’s pretty small compared to a zerg of 30+.

/shrug It was a fun fight, let it go at that. Video will come when Oozo has footage and time, I bet he’s compiling footage tonight since he’s not on.

So which one ended up wiping you?

4 OG, 5 TLP or The Maguuma Pugs

Wiping would imply you killed all of us. I am pretty sure I made it out alive since I recall killing some poor OG guy on the way back to garrison.

I would rather call it a tactical retreat in the face of superior numbers.

You got wiped doesn’t matter if a person makes it out lol
We lost 99% of our forces but we didn’t wipe – DR logic

Never seen a zerg with a hundred people in it, but I think we are drifting off-topic here.

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

Bunzy.8674:

Smitten.3076:

We’ll use every advantage we can to win an engagement, while trying to keep our groups small.

So /shrug …. game on.

You run with 20+ people in an attempt to keep your group small?

Actually .. edited it because you’re really not worth it.
All OG is, is forum bravado and a few dueling specs, nothing special. We get better fights from Mag from other guilds there, we’ll continue to enjoy fights with those folks.

Video should be out of the zerg busting in a few nights once Oozo has time to mess with them. Was a fun zerg stomp, we probably had 12-14 with us consisting of 1 BSty, about 5-6 Larp/Noqq.

so 14+1 = 15
+ 6 = 21
yep 20+ which is what i said earlier >.>

No you misread, the Larp/Noqq and Bsty count is added with our total.Hence the phrase “consisting of”. So still 14ish, i’ve been informed the third group might have been full but I can think of who was in it though.

I will be sure to count when you release the video, I am 95% confident there was at least 15.

I’ll give you 15, that’s pretty small compared to a zerg of 30+.

/shrug It was a fun fight, let it go at that. Video will come when Oozo has footage and time, I bet he’s compiling footage tonight since he’s not on.

So which one ended up wiping you?

4 OG, 5 TLP or The Maguuma Pugs

Wiping would imply you killed all of us. I am pretty sure I made it out alive since I recall killing some poor OG guy on the way back to garrison.

I would rather call it a tactical retreat in the face of superior numbers.

Nilgoow.1037:

How do two dead servers produce so much drama? I’m actually sort of impressed.

Impressed? You should be happy. Flame Ram, Darwinism, Bunzy? This is easily the best match up thread to read ever.

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Oozo.7856:

Bunzy.8674:

Maguuma is winning due to superior tactics, it has nothing to do with population.

No, it is actually numbers this week. Switch to DR and get chased by literally 50+ Maguuma around the map for a couple of hours in MBL and you might have a different viewpoint. Either that or you are just trolling again. :P

You could try do what OG does and go around killing zergs.

This is what happened the last time [OG] tried to kill a zerg. Funny part is you had your own zerg behind you, but you decided to go and kill underleveled people coming out of our Citadel instead. As you may be aware, I do not appreciate this, and your cronies paid the price of not getting out soon enough.

We don’t kill zergs with two people, it looks like you needed a zerg to kill them both.

Hmm no, I if you carefully read my post you will see that these OG guys were part of their own zerg. We were fighting over the tower. Besides, there were 5-6 OG guys there, not 2. The others ran when they saw my tag I guess.

I go by evidence, You had a zerg to kill 2 people. I do not care for stories.

Good, me neither. The only fiction here is that we needed a zerg to kill two people.

You can deny it all you want, but the faster you realize you are not all that good Bunzy, the faster your guys will learn to improve.

I mean, NAME has been a hard core PvE guild since GW1 and we only started doing WvWvW two weeks ago. We are already stomping your Original “We Always Get Kills” Gankstars, maybe this should ring a bell somewhere?

We are so bad we have never been beaten 5v5, the only guild that has even been a challenge for us was WaR the rest were stomps.

Sounds about right. We can’t field 5 people really so you would have been beaten 4v5.

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Oozo.7856:

Bunzy.8674:

Maguuma is winning due to superior tactics, it has nothing to do with population.

No, it is actually numbers this week. Switch to DR and get chased by literally 50+ Maguuma around the map for a couple of hours in MBL and you might have a different viewpoint. Either that or you are just trolling again. :P

You could try do what OG does and go around killing zergs.

This is what happened the last time [OG] tried to kill a zerg. Funny part is you had your own zerg behind you, but you decided to go and kill underleveled people coming out of our Citadel instead. As you may be aware, I do not appreciate this, and your cronies paid the price of not getting out soon enough.

We don’t kill zergs with two people, it looks like you needed a zerg to kill them both.

Hmm no, I if you carefully read my post you will see that these OG guys were part of their own zerg. We were fighting over the tower. Besides, there were 5-6 OG guys there, not 2. The others ran when they saw my tag I guess.

I go by evidence, You had a zerg to kill 2 people. I do not care for stories.

Good, me neither. The only fiction here is that we needed a zerg to kill two people.

You can deny it all you want, but the faster you realize you are not all that good Bunzy, the faster your guys will learn to improve.

I mean, NAME has been a hard core PvE guild since GW1 and we only started doing WvWvW two weeks ago. We are already stomping your Original “We Always Get Kills” Gankstars, maybe this should ring a bell somewhere?

Sol.4310:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Oozo.7856:

Bunzy.8674:

Maguuma is winning due to superior tactics, it has nothing to do with population.

No, it is actually numbers this week. Switch to DR and get chased by literally 50+ Maguuma around the map for a couple of hours in MBL and you might have a different viewpoint. Either that or you are just trolling again. :P

You could try do what OG does and go around killing zergs.

This is what happened the last time [OG] tried to kill a zerg. Funny part is you had your own zerg behind you, but you decided to go and kill underleveled people coming out of our Citadel instead. As you may be aware, I do not appreciate this, and your cronies paid the price of not getting out soon enough.

We don’t kill zergs with two people, it looks like you needed a zerg to kill them both.

Hmm no, I if you carefully read my post you will see that these OG guys were part of their own zerg. We were fighting over the tower. Besides, there were 5-6 OG guys there, not 2. The others ran when they saw my tag I guess.

Waiting….. You going to duel me or are you just forum troll.

I think I am gonna stick to forums and just kill you whenever I see you in-game instead.

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Bunzy.8674:

Oozo.7856:

Bunzy.8674:

Maguuma is winning due to superior tactics, it has nothing to do with population.

No, it is actually numbers this week. Switch to DR and get chased by literally 50+ Maguuma around the map for a couple of hours in MBL and you might have a different viewpoint. Either that or you are just trolling again. :P

You could try do what OG does and go around killing zergs.

This is what happened the last time [OG] tried to kill a zerg. Funny part is you had your own zerg behind you, but you decided to go and kill underleveled people coming out of our Citadel instead. As you may be aware, I do not appreciate this, and your cronies paid the price of not getting out soon enough.

We don’t kill zergs with two people, it looks like you needed a zerg to kill them both.

Hmm no, I if you carefully read my post you will see that these OG guys were part of their own zerg. We were fighting over the tower. Besides, there were 5-6 OG guys there, not 2. The others ran when they saw my tag I guess.

The animation on skill #3.

Need I say more as to why you wanna equip an axe?

GuardianOMS.8067:

Lol, with those graphic setting WvW looks like Metal Gear Solid. So why are people still talking to Bunzy/OG?

Unfortunately after the latest patch Arena Net broke my graphics and I have to run everything on low to attain the FPS I used to have with everything on medium / high.

And we are talking to Bunzy / OG because it’s more fun than whining about number difference or server drama. Although these conversations are getting quite predicable now. In the next post I am 90% sure he will say that screen shots are easily manipulated.

Bunzy.8674:

Oozo.7856:

Bunzy.8674:

Maguuma is winning due to superior tactics, it has nothing to do with population.

No, it is actually numbers this week. Switch to DR and get chased by literally 50+ Maguuma around the map for a couple of hours in MBL and you might have a different viewpoint. Either that or you are just trolling again. :P

You could try do what OG does and go around killing zergs.

This is what happened the last time [OG] tried to kill a zerg. Funny part is you had your own zerg behind you, but you decided to go and kill underleveled people coming out of our Citadel instead. As you may be aware, I do not appreciate this, and your cronies paid the price of not getting out soon enough.

Sol.4310:

Acotje.5689:

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

ktith.6197:

Well I guess you could look at the upside:

1) They’ll really mess up our groove.
2) The extra numbers means we won’t stay in T5 to destroy anyone else.
3) We solved the missing left sock conspiracy.

I think this can conclude all the talk about server transfers for now, what’s done is done. Let’s go back to talking about the match.

Oh and [OG] + [GAGE] should really be a little more friendly. I invited many of you guys to dance tonight, but no one would bite. Come to think about it you did look a little pale lying on the ground though, so I digress…

Is this the old claim you killed OG yet have no proof thing again. That was so last week.

OG’s die easy tbh

Yeah when its 1 OG ranger vs 4 NAME, FOTM D/D Ele, FOTM Thief, necor and guardian, do the maths nub.

But I’d be happy to put all NAME in there place.

I believe it was one [OG] ranger who overextended horribly from the nice zerg of 15+ Maguuma that he was running around with.

You played it poorly, and you paid the price for it. Stop saying otherwise. And we killed plenty of your guildies last night, and the night before that too.

kerona.3465:

I think what BP/DR seem to mistake as “zergs on every borderland” these past two weeks is Maguuma playing cross-bl. We’ll have a skeleton crew of 5-10 on the BL and if they get in trouble they’ll ask for help from a CMD and the CMD will bring the zerg.

Of course if you’re not moving over with the enemy zerg, it would be impossible to distinguish whether the zerg was there the whole time or just popped in to def a few things and moved back.

In any case, our population was pretty high tonight, pretty late. Not just WAR people, a lot of new-to-WVW PvEers were in each BL for better or for worse. As long as they’re open to learning, don’t mind them so much.

I understand. It just seemed strange that we took the back way into Redwater and as soon as we popped our head outside Redlake you already had a force equally sized as ours defending it, with more trickling in as the siege went on.

But maybe my memory deceives me, it was late for me.

YEAHBUDDY.6813:

Actually they’re right we have massive zergs on every server 24/7 and we will crush them 24/7 and they might as well transfer now

Is there a reason for quoting me here?

Benjamin.6235:

KwayZee.5742:

3am on a Friday and there is a Maguuma zerg on every single map. Wow.

For an hour or two tonight, we literally just had five people defending on our borderlands. Two of those were PvE people just doing map completion. Three people is not a zerg.

We tried to make a push there with about 10 people, and we encountered a zerg bigger than ours at Redlake.

So no.

Acotje.5689:

Bunzy.8674:

Gab Superstar.4059:

ktith.6197:

Well I guess you could look at the upside:

1) They’ll really mess up our groove.
2) The extra numbers means we won’t stay in T5 to destroy anyone else.
3) We solved the missing left sock conspiracy.

I think this can conclude all the talk about server transfers for now, what’s done is done. Let’s go back to talking about the match.

Oh and [OG] + [GAGE] should really be a little more friendly. I invited many of you guys to dance tonight, but no one would bite. Come to think about it you did look a little pale lying on the ground though, so I digress…

Is this the old claim you killed OG yet have no proof thing again. That was so last week.

OG’s die easy tbh

Aye. [OG] kill of the day was when our Necro who hardly ever does WvWvW runs into an entire Maguuma zerg to stomp out an [OG] and then makes it out alive lol.

Ah… Good times.

ktith.6197:

Well I guess you could look at the upside:

1) They’ll really mess up our groove.
2) The extra numbers means we won’t stay in T5 to destroy anyone else.
3) We solved the missing left sock conspiracy.

I think this can conclude all the talk about server transfers for now, what’s done is done. Let’s go back to talking about the match.

Oh and [OG] + [GAGE] should really be a little more friendly. I invited many of you guys to dance tonight, but no one would bite. Come to think about it you did look a little pale lying on the ground though, so I digress…

Plok.6145:

So, not that they were a very special guild on BP but they were numbers, and they probably gave away our strat. Foxlife bailed to mag for more coat tail jumping.

Bailing? They just like Maguuma’s playstyle.

;)

Yes. Server is registering him as somewhere else than what your client is doing.

Just use a ranged projectile and it will move towards his “real” location.

400*
205 DR
90 BP

Well it looks like BP lost a lot of strength, and Maguuma has queue on all maps, so we should see a new match up in a while.

At least we are having much fun

Commisar.8695:

I don’t think we’re being bandwagonned. The guilds we’ve seen transfer over, [SM]/[WaR(spelt properly as in not how I did)] aren’t big guilds really, what they are though are very skilled from when I’ve fought them. We’re seeing groups that have a high skill level joining us after fighting them in battle and them thinking we’d maybe make a better match for their playstyle, if that doesn’t sound totally badkitten and how transfers should have been happening all along I don’t know what does

Do you genuinely believe what you just wrote?

Anyway what’s done is done. Let’s just try to have some fun this week.

First classy winchange of the match up, lol.

Thanks for the loot bags yesterday [OG]. I didn’t know that you guys liked to run around in zergs so much. Funny part is after the first couple of kills, everyone seemed so hell-bent on killing me that they were willing to run through DR’s entire zerg to do it. That of course did not work out very well. I think I got at least 10 bags from you guys until that… unfortunate 5v1 near the jumping puzzle.

Thanks for a lot of fun this week, I hope to see some more next week!

Rhyis.7058:

Beats standing at the citadel.

And we upgraded west keep during NA prime time today. If you only had 10-20 during that time, that has nothing to do with Maguuma taking advantage of you and everything to do with DR giving up.

DR giving up or not has nothing to do with what was discussed, and has been discussed before in this thread. But I believe staying OT is nothing you are interested in, you are simply trying to kitten people off.

Therefore; cy@

Rhyis.7058:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Rhyis.7058:

It takes exactly 1 person to take out the dolyaks on the way to a keep. It’s standard affair for that to happen constantly in T4. Ya’ll never do it though. Has nothing to do with numbers, everything to do with experience.

I dunno why we’re explaining this tbh, as it only helps you guys out in the future… Mind you, this is tip of the ice berg stuff.

Actually we killed a good 5-6 Dolyaks in a row before we entered Bay cause inner gate was down.

So I guess we did do it.

And my reply was specifically talking about supply camps.

So I don’t know why you are talking about Dolyaks.

Did I make this post clear enough for you?

I hope so.

We’re talking about supply getting to keeps inside your own borderlands. Bay had, and Hills currently has, waypoint/fortified. That’s like 100 dolyaks that went through to each keep. Killing 5-6 dolyaks isn’t going to cut it. These matches last 168 hours.

At several points we had no more than 10-20 people in our BL, and owned absolutely nothing while being spawn camped. Do you think the average player thinks “lets go kill some Dolyaks going to Bay”?

Rhyis.7058:

It takes exactly 1 person to take out the dolyaks on the way to a keep. It’s standard affair for that to happen constantly in T4. Ya’ll never do it though. Has nothing to do with numbers, everything to do with experience.

I dunno why we’re explaining this tbh, as it only helps you guys out in the future… Mind you, this is tip of the ice berg stuff.

Actually we killed a good 5-6 Dolyaks in a row before we entered Bay cause inner gate was down.

So I guess we did do it.

And my reply was specifically talking about supply camps.

So I don’t know why you are talking about Dolyaks.

Did I make this post clear enough for you?

I hope so.

As people have mentioned, I do NOT know what happened to DR in the past few days. We stayed strong throughout the weekend and during the start of this week, but since a few days ago we can barely field a group of 15 people in our own borderlands. If we do it’s basically take Garrison → leave → lose it 20 minutes later.

I really hope we can stay competitive throughout the entire week after reset…

Rising Dusk.2408:

I think difficulty can indeed exist. Positioning matters a lot in this combat, so area of effect indicators can follow specific, predictable (or unpredictable) patterns to create threatening and yet dodgeable situations. You can put pressure on a team that inhibits their ability to dodge everything; you have to choose your dodges, or perfectly position yourself, etc. There are already a couple very good examples of this in-game.

As an example: I never wipe against GL with my guild. That said, GL is still a ‘difficult’ boss. He requires situational awareness, class knowledge, team planning, tanking, utility planning, trait planning, and the whole nine yards. This makes him fun. I don’t think GL is nearly as hard as things could be. I can personally think up about a dozen boss mechanics that could easily trump GL. Here’s another example: Grawl Shaman Boss in L50+ FotM. Ridiculously challenging considering the number of things that you have to be aware of, and yet one of the most enjoyable boss experiences in the game because of it.

tl;dr: I think difficulty can be done, just not with more HP and more auto-attack boss damage. I think ANet knows this, and is moving in the right direction. (Also better rewards for good players!)

You shed very good light on the problem. GL, Subject Alpha and Kholer are often considered “good” bosses, and they all require timed dodges and / or enviromental awareness.

The problem however, is that if this is the only way Arena Net can create difficulty, there is a certain roof they will eventually reach before they have reached the amount of difficulty they can create without introducing more gear tiers. It goes without saying of course, that if we are still required to dodge X attack at Y point in time after 2 years, GW2 will be extremely stale. Take FotM for example. The entire dungeon is designed around one thing: Dodging agony at the right moment. It’s just extremely boring after the N’th run.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I loved DoA because it was so difficult when it first came out and later on HM that most people couldn’t complete it, which meant that the rewards you got out of a HM run (or the runs when it was first released) were very valuable. I was a very, very good player of GW1, and I made my entire fortune running DoA. It wasn’t even a small amount of money, either; I made hundreds of thousands of plat and essentially could afford anything in the game that I wanted. I loved being able to make money from playing the game. That is sorely missing from GW2, which now rewards you more money for playing the market than playing the game.

What I’d like to see ANet take away from this is that they should introduce either a new dungeon or a new difficulty so challenging that less than 1% of the population can complete it, with rewards that can then be sold to other players. I want to be able to translate my skill in GW2 into gold to then actually get the items I want. FotM, unfortunately, doesn’t allow this due to the nature of the RNG rewards and the fact that everything unique you can get out of FotM is account bound, which is a major disappointment.

As I have stated many times before, it is pretty much impossible for developers to create difficulty in this game because of how the combat system is set up.

And what does the OP consider an exploit? Skipping? Safe spotting Nightmare Vine?

Believe me when I say there are much much worse exploits out there…

proxy.7963:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Yep, it was a nightmare to balance. Even after 7 years the game still has imbalances.

But god kitten it was worth it. It was so, so, so worth it, after seeing what GW2 combat turned out to be.

From a development point of view, I’d argue that it wasn’t.

As players, I’ve no doubt that the GW1 system was great fun despite the popularity of certain builds tending to marginalise experimentation when it came to finding spots in groups. The ideas being it all were interesting, and I’m particularly fond of the concept of beating a boss to get a unique skill. And I’ve little doubt that the apparent decreased complexity of GW2’s skill system has put some GW1 players off.

However, both systems are/were modular, and there’s absolutely nothing to suggest that GW2 won’t be introducing new skills and perhaps even dual professions in the future. Starting from a simpler foundation, however, makes building upon it significantly easier; by adding new skills, or combining existing skills from more than one profession, you simply impact on far less with a more basic system and are more able to create balanced mechanics from a pure design standpoint.

TLDR: GW1’s system, even at release, was rather complex and easy to disrupt when building upon it. By contrast, GW2’s system encourages development through its relative simplicity. There’s nothing to say that what we have now is all that we’ll ever see.

I seriously doubt many new skills will be introduced, and secondary professions won’t be for sure.

Besides, even if they add say a new weapon, it STILL would not provide variety because the watered down combat system does not allow for complexity. Every profession is almost the same, interrupts are the same, there are no penalties for failing to time your skills, the condition system disallows Mesmers, Necros and Thieves to have a distinguished and unique role in the game.

You will almost never see an enemy and say “oh kitten, that was a kitten awesome build, I have never seen X profession do that before, he must have put a lot of thought into his character”, simply because there is no thought needed when creating a character, and the professions are simply not unique at all.

CassieGold.7460:

I wanted to toss in something, because I think a lot of GW1 vets have commented on how much we miss the Deck Building aspect of GW1. It was cool to sort through all the options and come up with unique builds, good synergies, and combinations that made you feel powerful and successful. It was cool to plan out group synergy in an outpost and walk out into a zone to do what you intended to do… and to make hard things easy because you figured it out. It was also painful to look at some people in your party and say WTF? Are you seriously doing that?

But, how many of us will also remember Izzy, frequently commenting on the dificulty of balancing skills in that environment? 10 professions, and every profession could take on a secondary to combine 2 complete professions worth of skills.

How often did we see the balance changes come down for something that had nothing to do with your own profession? Ele skills nerfed not because of the Ele, but because of Fast Casting Me/E? Splinter Weapon, not because of the Rit, but because of the R/Rt?

I think the current skill selection is a bit too pendulum swing in the other direction, and there isn’t enough synergy or uniqueness to build…. also a serious lack of elite skills that offer synergy with the rest of the skill bar…. but I understand where it came from.

Yep, it was a nightmare to balance. Even after 7 years the game still has imbalances.

But god kitten it was worth it. It was so, so, so worth it, after seeing what GW2 combat turned out to be.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

The problem with that, as I pointed out, is that there is nothing to stop the party leader + one guildie inviting 3 pugs, getting to the end, then booting out the Pugs just as the final boss has 1% HP left.

You can have each boss drop 1 token.