Guild Wars 2

Arena Net misunderstood the problem with holy trinity. Having a dedicated tank and healer / support is not a problem as long as every profession in the game can handle these jobs. Delving deep into your heal / tank / damage trees is not rewarding at all in GW2. When you think about it, the amount of heals an ele can put out or the amount of boons a guardian can put out is laughable compared to the damage enemy mobs can put out.

This leads to a situation where it’s basically “every man for himself”. People are encouraged to bring a little bit of everything. Being a hybrid is completely fine, but when it’s the only option available it’s not fun at all.

A guardian will never feel like he can keep up his team on his own.
An ele will never feel like he can heal his team really well.
A warrior spamming banners will never see himself make a huge impact on his team.

In fact I would go so far as to say that EVERY skill in this game is horribly unsatisfying. Apart from the damage you do you will never actually get to experience the impact your skills have on your team.

Compare this to a monk casting Protective Spirit in GW1, or a Mesmer using Panic on a huge group, or an ele using an array of earth skills to be virtually unstoppable. These things gave an actual impact that was noticeable by the player and his team, and it also made it a lot easier to judge a build’s effectiveness. The fact that 99% of enemy monsters only used skills that were available to players also made a big difference I think.

TLDR; Current skill system very unsatisfying, not possible to have great builds that make a noticeable impact on your team.

Illiander.8049:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Why would I show a money run? He implied that I couldn’t make as much money, and I proved him wrong. It was all I wanted to do. You should get some reading comprehension, and maybe some decency and respect as well.

Illiander.8049:

Kill spider (I would expect you to kill at least some of the trash here).
Skip Gravelings in traps.
Kill troll wherever.
Kill Kholer.

Illiander.8049:

If you can do all that in 30 mins, then my hat’s off to you. But I don’t think you can, and won’t believe you until you post a video.

I specifically asked for a full money run. I watched the first video until you skipped the spider then turned it off.

Also, learn to link.

The discussion went to AC as an example because everyone knows it. It gives a base that anyone can talk about with actual knowledge. We could just as easily talk about CoF, or any specific fractal, but I figured more people would know AC.

Why would you ask for a full money run? It has no relevance to the discussion and I never claimed I could do one in 30 min.

I said I could make just as much money / hour by running the paths in 30min, something my videos proves.

Waraxx.4286:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Fokusdave.6842:

I have been a wow player for 7 years and finally tired of feeling like I always have to play catch up :-(.

Up until November I would have gladly recommended you this game.

Unfortunately Arena Net has decided to introduce gear progression just like in WoW, and it was apparently planned all along while selling hundreds of thousands game copies on the promise that there would be no gear progression. In my eyes Arena Net has sunk really low, and the vertical progression introduced seems to serve no purpose at all but to make people angry.

That being said, your first 50-100 hours of this game will probably be the best investment you have ever made. If you plan to invest yourself personally and emotionally in the game however, I wouldn’t recommend quitting WoW until you see what is going to happen in January and February. Alleged “huge” patches happening then will make or break the game I think.

there will be no gear treadmill in GW2. all they did was add 1 extra tier of gear because they felt that the jump between legendary and exotic is to long ( witch it is tbh) once all the ascended items are out there will be no more gear tiers. ( atm there is only rings and back pieces 3/14 pieces in the ascended tier) yes more will be added but that is planed and once you have the ascended gear you will never need a upgrade tier. they have stated this here on the forum and on their official blogg. Stop telling people that there is a treadmill.

They said that “for now” they won’t add any more tiers. Besides, considering they have gone back on their word again and again and again why do you trust them?

Many people trusted them when they said that there would be nothing like Ascended gear too.

Strifey.7215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Strifey.7215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Strifey.7215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Strifey.7215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

As requested;

/watch?v=s4C41YeuGlY

/watch?v=GTOSOAXCr38

/watch?v=Ee6rKGlMUBU

He said with killing Spider Queen and Kohler/Troll.

Those are normal times if you skip those bosses and miss out on the 42 silver and chest. I just watched your path 1 video and the correct way is to have 1 person drag the troll and kohler together to fight each other while the other 4 start the burrow event. Then you get a total of 28 silver and one chest for an extra 30 seconds worth of time.

Everyone knows you can do sub 10 minute runs by skipping them.

CoF is the best moneyrun anyways.

Would killing Kohler be the “correct” way of doing it if you are not after the money?
Doing the runs exactly as in the video will provide you with more tokens and equal gold / hour, which was my point all along.

I guess it’s too hard for some people to keep themselves from sniping other people’s videos without even understanding why they were posted in the first place.

Actually it won’t, I speed run dungeons daily as you can see from my videos of every dungeon. Kohler and the troll fight each other while you do the event in every path and you come back and finish them on the way to the next event when they are at 10-20% health. You do not make more then 30s every minute speed running dungeons.

If you are running dungeons for money you should be doing CoF in the first place, and if you are running AC for money then the “correct” way is to make the troll and Kholer fight each other, not to fight them by themselves.

Sniping videos lol, maybe you should educate yourself and see who has all of the videos in the dungeon guide sticky or just click the link in my sig. I am well aware of how to speed run dungeons for money, much more then just AC.

And yet you talk about money… Go read the entire conversation, I never ever talked about doing dungeons for money. All I ever said was that you can do all three paths in 30min, he didn’t believe me, I showed him videos.

So far all your posts amount to nothing but bashing and boasting for no good reason.

I read the whole thread… it’s not that hard to follow.

You said it can be done in 30 min. which I agree. He said your 30 min. run is probably with all skipping which it is. Then he made a post describing his money run. Then you replied by posting a video which isn’t a money run.

I didn’t see anywhere where he doubted you could clear it in 30 min. with skipping.

Sigh… Let me summarize.

- I said I could do a 30min run by skipping.
- He said I didn’t make as much money as he would make.
- I described why I could make as much money.
- He then said;
“If you can do all that in 30 mins, then my hat’s off to you. But I don’t think you can, and won’t believe you until you post a video.” Which would imply I couldn’t make as much money as him.
- I showed him proof that you can run all paths in under 30min, while earning as much money as him.
- You enter the thread and bash.

If you’re talking about more money in 30 minutes then his 1hr 30 min run you are correct, because 1hr 30 min is a terrible time.

My point is your videos don’t show a 30 minute money run and don’t make more money then the typical 10 minute Path 1, and 12 minute Path 2 and 3 money runs which involve killing both Kholer and the Cave Troll for an additional 28s + chest per each run.

But yes, you do a 30 min AC speed clear, grats. I was disappointed that they weren’t an actual money run which is what I thought they would be after reading the chain of posts before you posted them, also I hate your manual links because I’m lazy.

kthxbye.

Why would I show a money run? He implied that I couldn’t make as much money, and I proved him wrong. It was all I wanted to do. You should get some reading comprehension, and maybe some decency and respect as well.

Strifey.7215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Strifey.7215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Strifey.7215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

As requested;

/watch?v=s4C41YeuGlY

/watch?v=GTOSOAXCr38

/watch?v=Ee6rKGlMUBU

He said with killing Spider Queen and Kohler/Troll.

Those are normal times if you skip those bosses and miss out on the 42 silver and chest. I just watched your path 1 video and the correct way is to have 1 person drag the troll and kohler together to fight each other while the other 4 start the burrow event. Then you get a total of 28 silver and one chest for an extra 30 seconds worth of time.

Everyone knows you can do sub 10 minute runs by skipping them.

CoF is the best moneyrun anyways.

Would killing Kohler be the “correct” way of doing it if you are not after the money?
Doing the runs exactly as in the video will provide you with more tokens and equal gold / hour, which was my point all along.

I guess it’s too hard for some people to keep themselves from sniping other people’s videos without even understanding why they were posted in the first place.

Actually it won’t, I speed run dungeons daily as you can see from my videos of every dungeon. Kohler and the troll fight each other while you do the event in every path and you come back and finish them on the way to the next event when they are at 10-20% health. You do not make more then 30s every minute speed running dungeons.

If you are running dungeons for money you should be doing CoF in the first place, and if you are running AC for money then the “correct” way is to make the troll and Kholer fight each other, not to fight them by themselves.

Sniping videos lol, maybe you should educate yourself and see who has all of the videos in the dungeon guide sticky or just click the link in my sig. I am well aware of how to speed run dungeons for money, much more then just AC.

And yet you talk about money… Go read the entire conversation, I never ever talked about doing dungeons for money. All I ever said was that you can do all three paths in 30min, he didn’t believe me, I showed him videos.

So far all your posts amount to nothing but bashing and boasting for no good reason.

I read the whole thread… it’s not that hard to follow.

You said it can be done in 30 min. which I agree. He said your 30 min. run is probably with all skipping which it is. Then he made a post describing his money run. Then you replied by posting a video which isn’t a money run.

I didn’t see anywhere where he doubted you could clear it in 30 min. with skipping.

Sigh… Let me summarize.

- I said I could do a 30min run by skipping.
- He said I didn’t make as much money as he would make.
- I described why I could make as much money.
- He then said;
“If you can do all that in 30 mins, then my hat’s off to you. But I don’t think you can, and won’t believe you until you post a video.” Which would imply I couldn’t make as much money as him.
- I showed him proof that you can run all paths in under 30min, while earning as much money as him.
- You enter the thread and bash.

Strifey.7215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Strifey.7215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

As requested;

/watch?v=s4C41YeuGlY

/watch?v=GTOSOAXCr38

/watch?v=Ee6rKGlMUBU

He said with killing Spider Queen and Kohler/Troll.

Those are normal times if you skip those bosses and miss out on the 42 silver and chest. I just watched your path 1 video and the correct way is to have 1 person drag the troll and kohler together to fight each other while the other 4 start the burrow event. Then you get a total of 28 silver and one chest for an extra 30 seconds worth of time.

Everyone knows you can do sub 10 minute runs by skipping them.

CoF is the best moneyrun anyways.

Would killing Kohler be the “correct” way of doing it if you are not after the money?
Doing the runs exactly as in the video will provide you with more tokens and equal gold / hour, which was my point all along.

I guess it’s too hard for some people to keep themselves from sniping other people’s videos without even understanding why they were posted in the first place.

Actually it won’t, I speed run dungeons daily as you can see from my videos of every dungeon. Kohler and the troll fight each other while you do the event in every path and you come back and finish them on the way to the next event when they are at 10-20% health. You do not make more then 30s every minute speed running dungeons.

If you are running dungeons for money you should be doing CoF in the first place, and if you are running AC for money then the “correct” way is to make the troll and Kholer fight each other, not to fight them by themselves.

Sniping videos lol, maybe you should educate yourself and see who has all of the videos in the dungeon guide sticky or just click the link in my sig. I am well aware of how to speed run dungeons for money, much more then just AC.

This person describing the “money run” was replying to me, implying that I couldn’t make as much money / hour as he could, and yet you talk about money… Go read the entire conversation, I never ever talked about doing dungeons for money. All I ever said was that you can do all three paths in 30min, while making equally much gold as him, he didn’t believe me, I showed him videos.

So far all your posts amount to nothing but bashing and boasting for no good reason.

Fokusdave.6842:

I have been a wow player for 7 years and finally tired of feeling like I always have to play catch up :-(.

Up until November I would have gladly recommended you this game.

Unfortunately Arena Net has decided to introduce gear progression just like in WoW, and it was apparently planned all along while selling hundreds of thousands game copies on the promise that there would be no gear progression. In my eyes Arena Net has sunk really low, and the vertical progression introduced seems to serve no purpose at all but to make people angry.

That being said, your first 50-100 hours of this game will probably be the best investment you have ever made. If you plan to invest yourself personally and emotionally in the game however, I wouldn’t recommend quitting WoW until you see what is going to happen in January and February. Alleged “huge” patches happening then will make or break the game I think.

They are taking this problem very seriously and are monitoring the situation actively.

Wethospu.6437:

Issue might be that you need 4 players to beat Tar (unless I’m missing something). So either those 2-3 players got bored (at extremely easy end-boos) or magical “boot” happened.

Or maybe it was a group of 5 friends where 3 of them left so that they could all split the reward of 15g for doing so?

Strifey.7215:

Gab Superstar.4059:

As requested;

/watch?v=s4C41YeuGlY

/watch?v=GTOSOAXCr38

/watch?v=Ee6rKGlMUBU

He said with killing Spider Queen and Kohler/Troll.

Those are normal times if you skip those bosses and miss out on the 42 silver and chest. I just watched your path 1 video and the correct way is to have 1 person drag the troll and kohler together to fight each other while the other 4 start the burrow event. Then you get a total of 28 silver and one chest for an extra 30 seconds worth of time.

Everyone knows you can do sub 10 minute runs by skipping them.

CoF is the best moneyrun anyways.

Would killing Kohler be the “correct” way of doing it if you are not after the money?
Doing the runs exactly as in the video will provide you with more tokens and equal gold / hour, which was my point all along.

I guess it’s too hard for some people to keep themselves from sniping other people’s videos without even understanding why they were posted in the first place.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Oh boy… Why is it, that if you are getting permanently knocked over, you don’t bring stability? Aegis? Blind?

Because I play a necro and only have a couple of blinds on long cooldowns and no stability, Aegis (or other blocks), or Vigor (or dodge skills)?

Ah, sorry. Didn’t know you were soloing the dungeon. My bad.

Not sure why anyone would pay 5g for this…

But then again I never understood why people would pay me 20e to run them through UW in GW1 either.

Kumakichi.2583:

Have to admit I liked the solo video. If I had to guess I’d say he spent at least 90 minutes doing that maybe longer?

Since he skipped the mobs he could I’m wondering why he just let the 3 reindeer at final boss loose. Why not stick em on the vines or up on that leaf?

Probably 4x that time. He spent 90 min alone on the three knights with Leurent.

As requested;

/watch?v=s4C41YeuGlY

/watch?v=GTOSOAXCr38

/watch?v=Ee6rKGlMUBU

80 Warrior: 2.71

Arena Net cannot reward players for being skilled, since the bland combat system and dungeon design prevents this.

Also, take a look at this subforum. You will see circa 15 threads about how impossible Simin is. Now imagine if there was actually a reward at the end of that path. The outrage among crappy casuals would be deafening.

As far as I know there were many refund requests around release. Maybe it has something to do with that?

Illiander.8049:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Illiander.8049:

Those gravelings by the scepter pieces are the only thing my regular group doesn’t kill when we do AC. And we run all three routes in under an hour thirty when we’re being lazy, including time for clearing inventories, etc… between paths.

To everyone who wants to skip in PuGs:

• If you’re good enough to skip, then killing the mobs will take barely any time at all.
• If you’re not good enough to skip, then why are you trying?

The problem is, you say you do all paths in under 1h 30min when you can do them in under 30 min by skipping.

Some people just don’t want to waste that extra hour on mindless 1-2-3-4-5 spamming.

Sorry, that’s an hour thirty while hitting every money mob, so that’s about 3 gold before selling anything (4-5g after selling stuff). I’m assuming your full-skip runs only get you the 120 tokens and 78 silver?

You also didn’t provide a counter to my point: If you’re in a PuG, you can’t trust them to actually be good enough to skip stuff effectively, so you’ll end up with half the party dying repeatadly and that half hour sweep will turn into a 3 hour one.

No. All Graveling bosses drop money. 15s each with an omnom bar. The bags of gold also adds silver, as do the mobs we have to kill for objectives.

And its’s a lot more than 120 tokens but I guess that was just a typo.

The PUG thing does not bother me as I do not engage in them.

Jon.1376:

your suppose to skip it? that is stupid imo. power level is scaled in such a horrid manner. I like how challenging=“getting 1 hit” and I do not literally mean 1 hit, im referring to being knocked down over and over until you die, and other basically 1 hit scenarios. evade serves a purpose, but u cannot spam it as much as they can their attacks. I like this game, but kitten I wanna love it

Oh boy… Why is it, that if you are getting permanently knocked over, you don’t bring stability? Aegis? Blind?

Furthermore, bring as much projectile reflection as you can in CM, and pay attention to what mechanics enemy attacks have. It will make the dungeon a breeze.

Illiander.8049:

Those gravelings by the scepter pieces are the only thing my regular group doesn’t kill when we do AC. And we run all three routes in under an hour thirty when we’re being lazy, including time for clearing inventories, etc… between paths.

To everyone who wants to skip in PuGs:

• If you’re good enough to skip, then killing the mobs will take barely any time at all.
• If you’re not good enough to skip, then why are you trying?

The problem is, you say you do all paths in under 1h 30min when you can do them in under 30 min by skipping.

Some people just don’t want to waste that extra hour on mindless 1-2-3-4-5 spamming.

Writetyper.1985:

Dungeons right now: Follow a preset pattern which is the fastest and most effective. Skip anything that doesn’t give money.

How is this supposed to be fun in anyway? I feel like this gameplay style was almost intended because of the leash mechanics and the complete lack of incentive to kill anything walking around. I mean, you may as well just cut the kitten and let us walk straight to each boss for loot. There’s no “gameplay” in running past something.

Rather, the current implementation of trash mobs is something I would consider having no game play involved. It’s just a crappy way to make players spend more time in dungeons.

And there is no need for YOU to think it’s fun. Seriously people like you have been around since release of GW1 and your little cause to rid Tyria of this evil type of dungeon running is as redundant and crappy now as it was then, because you know what?
Don’t like it? Don’t do it.

Not playing a glass cannon warrior in dungeons just means you or your team aren’t good enough to bring one. I hate seeing the damage potential of warriors be thrown away with kittenty PVT gear and shout builds.

FotM excluded.

The only problem with TA is the three Knights that accompany Leurent.

If it wasn’t for pulling them separately it would just be a mad race to kill one, then hope someone in your groups survives, or failing that, have your whole team run back there.

Worst part is that pulling was obviously not intended seeing as they often break away and regenerate health. I can’t for the life of me understand what the reasoning was behind these mobs. Difficulty is fine, but when it is so completely out of tune with the rest of the dungeon, it just becomes laughable.

UnicornViolet.3081:

Secondly, for killing trash mobs, melee might be able to out-dps ranged, but in group events, boss fights etc. ranged strongly pull ahead. This is due to the fact that ranged players have 100% uptime while these alleged “pro” melee players typically spend about 50% of the fight waiting to regain health / resources so that they can run back in and hit the champion / boss two more times before running back out to stand next to the ranged players who are chipping away the entire time.

Would you please inform me on what bosses this behavior occurs?

Jormag? Lupicus maybe? What else?

Look at stickies in this forum.

moiraine.2753:

Sina.9208:

moiraine.2753:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Aphix.9846:

Please do not complain about a level 11 fractal. Just makes most people lol.
A properly built team with players who know their class and with a little experience even at difficulty 39 the shaman can be a walk in the park. 40 however I guess it’s where it actually get’s annoying, (NOT 11 lol) since at 40 you can have max resist and still get downed every time he hits you with agony.

Do you feel that the Underwater or Swamp fractal is equally hard at level 40? I doubt you do, and as such there is a problem with the Grawl fractal.

Actaully the 2nd group of Kraits can totally obliterate the whole group if you don’t have a good composition of classes and people who actually know how to survive this pack.So yes for pugs this will be hard.
In my opinion 40+ fractals are not meant for pugs.

Oh please no one fails to complete the lvl40 underwater fractal. Even if the pugs wipe on that krait grp, they will manage to kill enough kraits on the first try to make the second try trivial.

Don’t say things that you can’t support with 100% certainty.I was in many random groups.And you won’t believe how many people there are who could wipe you only because they don’t have a steady raiding group from which they could actually learn.That is the reason why when I reached level 30 i stoped pugging and found myself a group to make progress with.
In my opinion FotM is good as it is and should never be balanced arround pugs.The reason is the levels.Any way lets give a look at something else.Now I will give you 4 examples:

1st is the crystal in the Ice fractal and it’s snow phase.Pugs can fail with miserably at it even at higher fractals(even with Guardian’s and thief’s walls,bubbles,Smokes and invisibility).They keep pulling elementals and you have to corps run it.
2nd is the char fractal where you are in the last room.There pugs can keep running inside with the veterans and wipe the group.You may think that people already know to stay at the door and to wait only 1 of you to pull?mhm i will say it agai pugs are unreliable.
3rd is the krait group which i already mantioned.
4th is the shaman which is hard for random groups only because they may have 3 warriors or 2 glass cannons or someone who can’t dodge the agony or what ever reason.

Now i will return to the Shaman boss again.For pugs he is hard.For proper groups it’s not a problem at all.But I will repeat again.FotM should never be balanced around random made groups.For that you have levels.

You don’t get his point do you?

So what if you wipe once on the Krait group? You will still have killed enough of them to make the second try a breeze.

You won’t find solo farming in GW2 like you did in GW1.

Just play whatever you feel like.

It’s a cool thought but the execution is very poor.

On low pop servers the doors will pretty much never be open (especially Arah).
If the doors are open they are sometimes closed after you finish one path, forcing you to redo the events.

It would make a lot more sense if there was a set time of week or day when the Flame Legion / Risen / Inquest attempts to push back invaders. This would engage the whole server rather than the people who plan to do the dungeon right at that moment.

Beating them back, or losing and then finishing all the events up until unlocking the gate again would make sure the doors stay open for a set period of time that the players all know of.

This would prevent people scheduling multiple paths and then being forced to quit because gates shut on them, and it would make these events a lot more compelling for the player base, since most people who do dungeons regularly do CoF / CoE / Arah weekly, thus giving a large portion of the players an incentive to actually open the gates.

EDIT for clarification: Arah would probably be weekly seeing as it involves a lot more players and time, whereas CoE and CoF that only require 3+ people could happen daily.

Aphix.9846:

Please do not complain about a level 11 fractal. Just makes most people lol.
A properly built team with players who know their class and with a little experience even at difficulty 39 the shaman can be a walk in the park. 40 however I guess it’s where it actually get’s annoying, (NOT 11 lol) since at 40 you can have max resist and still get downed every time he hits you with agony.

Do you feel that the Underwater or Swamp fractal is equally hard at level 40? I doubt you do, and as such there is a problem with the Grawl fractal.

Malediktus.9250:

Zabanov.6743:

Heliox.8632:

For the people who skip it boils down to 1 thing.

Note: 99% of people complaining on forums are people whining about why people skip trash, and not the other way around where people who do fast speed runs complain about trash killers. Want to know why? People who do things successfully, quickly, efficiently have nothing to complain about.

No the people who think skipping is an issue just want to enjoy the game, they dont want to take the easy way and just skip stuff. But it just seems like stated before people just want instant rewards.
Some of the people are not gold farmers that just want to do everything quickly. But alas it seems that people will always take the easy way out.
If Anet would have suggested a “skip button” to dungeon most would welcome it with open arms.

you may call skipping successfull or efficient, you can say whatever you want you may say that I complain and whine. But in the end it is the skippers who are just lazy and filled with greed who will take the easy way out on every possible opportunity. And sadly this will not change, these days people only want instant results. And they forgot about the road that leads to those rewards.

Lastly I just want to say fine skip all you want, but I will not. And I hope that those who want to enjoy this game to its full content will refuse to skip as well.

+1
I started to add everyone to my blocklist who insist on skipping stuff.

I hope there is no limit on the block list lol.

Melankoli.9538:

If you are worried about CoF, you should check out people skipping CM while running through bugged mountains, or jumping through invisible walls in CoE p2 to get to destroyer in p3, or jumping through walls in fotm, or getting pushed on to walls by engineers in fotm etc etc etc, some bosses in fotm dont even hit back if u jump on to a tree, i mean srsly? Anet needs to fix the bugs cus all the dungeons are a big joke, a group with some brains can do any path in any dungeon in under an hour (yes including p4 of arah). But instead they keep adding content which nobody cares about (snowmen building etc) . I understand the need to make money, but it should not prevent anet from doing their job.

To be fair, there were three truly game-breaking exploits in dungeons that I was aware of, and they have all been sort of fixed to my knowledge. The ones you mention are not that bad, and they should take lower priority than what was fixed in the last patch.

I am not content with the quality of dungeon map design being released into the game, neither am I content with the speed at which the exploits are being closed or Arena Net’s attitude towards them, but they seem to at least be doing more now than what they were earlier. Last patch closed some major exploits, there are many still out there, but we don’t know how much will have been done by next patch.

My thought is it won’t happen because it would upset the game economy terribly.

If you really want to you can duo most dungeons, but it won’t be scaled down of course.

Vox Hollow.2736:

What exactly do you feel like you’re accomplishing by not skipping? What do you think you’re missing out on if you skip mobs? Spamming abilities on mobs for 20 seconds to get 0 drops, I know that sounds really exciting but it’s just not for me.

If you’re not into PvP, this game just doesn’t offer that many outlets for stretching your legs and pushing your limits once you’ve gotten geared up. Heck, I’m running with a stacking Sigil just because I like the additional challenge of trying not get downed while doing explorables with pugs.

I’m all dressed up, but with nowhere to go.
And running with skippers is like an evening with a guy that wants to go up for coffee at the end of the night but just doesn’t know how to show a girl a good time. It’s all about the booty, in a depressing sort of way.

For kittens sake, then don’t kitten run with kitten skipping groups, form your own kitten groups and stop kitten crying on the kitten forums.

The difficulty is balanced around completing 3 random fractals in a row. Some are harder than others, which is a problem (although the marsh one certainly isn’t one of them).

If they introduced this change then everyone would just restart and restart until they got the easier fractals, something which is not possible now. Sure, if you get Grawl fractal on your first one you will probably restart, but if you get it on the third one you will not. They also want to sell repair canisters through the cash shop and being able to restart and repair whenever you have broken gear would prevent these sales.

Thus, you will never see the change you request.

Zabanov.6743:

Heliox.8632:

For the people who skip it boils down to 1 thing.

Note: 99% of people complaining on forums are people whining about why people skip trash, and not the other way around where people who do fast speed runs complain about trash killers. Want to know why? People who do things successfully, quickly, efficiently have nothing to complain about.

No the people who think skipping is an issue just want to enjoy the game, they dont want to take the easy way and just skip stuff. But it just seems like stated before people just want instant rewards.
Some of the people are not gold farmers that just want to do everything quickly. But alas it seems that people will always take the easy way out.
If Anet would have suggested a “skip button” to dungeon most would welcome it with open arms.

you may call skipping successfull or efficient, you can say whatever you want you may say that I complain and whine. But in the end it is the skippers who are just lazy and filled with greed who will take the easy way out on every possible opportunity. And sadly this will not change, these days people only want instant results. And they forgot about the road that leads to those rewards.

Lastly I just want to say fine skip all you want, but I will not. And I hope that those who want to enjoy this game to its full content will refuse to skip as well.

The easy way out? Would that mean trash mobs are hard to kill?

I am completely fine with you enjoying the game by not skipping the mobs. However, I cannot for the life of me understand why you can’t be fine with me enjoying the game by skipping the mobs.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that you are a very loud minority who can’t find enough like minded people to do non-skip runs, so you resort to crying for an official statement or a “fix” to the non-existing problem.

BRAiNZ.7480:

Cliffside even is too easy now at 40+… Grawl is all we have, please don’t take that away from us ;(

One Fractal should NOT be harder than another at the same difficulty scale.

I am all for FotM being hard as hell, as long as it is on an even field across every fractal.

I realize this is really hard to do, but I mean comparing some of the fractals to the Grawl shaman at one specific level is just impossible, the difference in difficulty is just too big.

Needs to be a 3/5 majority to kick in my opinion.

Initiating a kick vote within a dungeon should also have a cool down.

Many have probably made that mistake. Just stay clear from P4 in the future.

Wethospu.6437:

I don’t think even my solo run on p2 took 3 hours, even with all the wipes (not sure about exact time as I afked a lot). Last p3 duo took 39 minutes (don’t have the video on this computer so not 100% sure).
If you know what you are doing it won’t take long.

The OP obviously doesn’t know what he is doing. If he did he wouldn’t ask how long a run takes now would he?

Thus your post equals nothing but pointless kitten-waving. If you wish to brag about times then start a thread for that please.

haviz.1340:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Yes it is. Four noobs will have a hard time killing most bosses without wiping, whether or not you have a fifth that can tell you tactics.

He said he was doing arah for DM title. You’d think people aspiring for that had an ability to quickly adapt to new dungeon.

Maybe you’d think so. The reality is a lot of people who aren’t fit to get the achievement are trying for it (and succeeding to a certain extent due to poor dungeon design).

This is why you often see “Simin is too hard” forum threads here.

Besides, the upscaling in dungeons gives an illusion of for example AC being equal in terms of difficulty to Arah, which is not the case. Thus many people are doing the difficult dungeons before the easy ones, giving them little time to adapt. I know I did a couple of paths in Arah before attempting AC or TA explorable.

haviz.1340:

If you had someone who knew what to do, how could you spend 3 hrs in arah? That’s not possible.

Yes it is. Four noobs will have a hard time killing most bosses without wiping, whether or not you have a fifth that can tell you tactics.

ThCakeIsALie.5306:

Kumakichi.2583:

I noticed that many of the posts say “experienced only”. I dont blame people for wanting experienced people so they can finish a run.

Yep! Decided to make my own group instead since the ones I usually make are better. I definitely put up “experienced players only plz” and I finally got a good group after two runs… the first went up to Lupi and someone quit; posted on lfg and someone showed up, we won.

Now 5 more runs… -_-

I’m doing one run a day to avoid getting too fatigued. Whether it’s a good run or not is up for random. Lupi’s only hard if you don’t know how to time your dodges and if you go in w/ a group of glass cannons.

Glass Cannon on Arah = no no. shakeshead

What in path 3 could possibly kill a glass cannon, let alone anything?

Maximillian Greil.1965:

If you’re looking for 10-25-40 man raids, I recomend you try another game. Guildwars is about small groups coordination.

Guild Wars 2*

Clark Skinner.4902:

I was thinking that they placed the enemies there for us to fight, and for us to skip them, it is against the intended gameplay. They have made patches that prevent people from getting rewarded by skipping most of a dungeon.

The same principle but in a smaller degree would make sense here. That’s why I would love an official response.

I’m fine with it either way and am glad to see what players think.

You won’t see an official response because it would be the same that has already been given by players in a thousand threads just like yours.

That response being “NO”.

Your mistake was doing path 4 because you wanted tokens.

At higher difficulties the Shaman fractal IS harder than the others, which is not good game design.

Fury.6281:

Tl;Dr – should diminished returns take affect on dungeons even if you are grinding different paths, not just one? Should the diminished returns system be reworked or improved on? Or is it fine the way it is?

Rising Dusk.2408:

Maximizing your ability to avoid DR certainly constitutes as discussion related to DR. Furthermore, it’s probably the most useful time-relevant type of discussion: the type that lets you survive without suffering in the current state of the game until such time that it changes (though I highly doubt it ever will).

Please just stop trying. How to circumvent DR has nothing to do with this discussion, which you would know if you had read the OP.

Linkent.7416:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Linkent.7416:

Ballistic.4531:

Hats off to the dev who thought of this mechanics!
It’s the only Arah final boss that feels on par mechanic-wise with Lupi. Brilliant mechanics, really.
I love it. To be fair though, I still haven’t beaten it, but I love it.
The rest of Arah final bosses just feel like they need some more love, compared to Lupi.

lupi is no doubt the best boss in this game..
dwayna on the other hand.. require specific class to success..

I have no doubt in my mind that a group of extremely competent players could do this boss with any team composition available.

Arena Net never ever said that every team composition will be equal in terms of how good they can perform.

Show that competent team of yours, do this boss without mesmer and warrior..
Show it with a video..

No thanks, not interested.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I do 4 paths of whatever I feel like in 2 hours, do a fractal run for a daily, and then do 4 more paths of whatever I feel like in the next 2 hours, none of which hit DR. Whether we like it or not, DR is here to stay, so better to be informed and maximize your ability to avoid it than ignorant and complain about it when you do hit it.

The purpose of this thread is not about maximizing your ability to avoid it, but to discuss DR itself.

Linkent.7416:

Ballistic.4531:

Hats off to the dev who thought of this mechanics!
It’s the only Arah final boss that feels on par mechanic-wise with Lupi. Brilliant mechanics, really.
I love it. To be fair though, I still haven’t beaten it, but I love it.
The rest of Arah final bosses just feel like they need some more love, compared to Lupi.

lupi is no doubt the best boss in this game..
dwayna on the other hand.. require specific class to success..

I have no doubt in my mind that a group of extremely competent players could do this boss with any team composition available.

Arena Net never ever said that every team composition will be equal in terms of how good they can perform.