The problem is they know ladders scare people away, Rythgar above so eloquently put it that ladders are great because they give players a sense of progress. But he doesn’t realize the double edged-sword. Only around HALF the players progress in a ladder. In reality with quits its maybe 80%, but you lose that 20% over time. Then the new bottom 20% starts getting annoyed and falling out.
Saving grace is technically there’s PvE and 2 other types of PvP (WvW and Scenario/Battlegrounds which will probably come). But all three forms of PvP in this game are pretty mediocre and I think the idea of focusing on some fantasy of e-sport-iness will mean complete death. Then again, the whole idea of e-sports is just crazy BS so you never know what somebody can pull off…
None of this is factual. LoL, WoW, SC2, HoN, DOTA 2, CoD, etc. Games with ladders that are having ZERO problems with new customers or player retention — casual or hardcore.
(edited by Gilgamesh.2561)
Why $25?
The best E-Sport model is F2P with micro-transactions. They already have the Gem Shop, although unlike a MOBA they can’t sell you “heroes”, so ArenaNet would have to figure out how to better attract sPvP players to the Gem Shop.
The best thing ArenaNet could do right now is get more people playing. Queues are becoming horrid.
Really doubt many people are leaving the game due to lack of ladder. Maybe <1%.
That’s just your confirmation bias speaking. You want something so obviously EVERYONE must want it, and you think the game is failing without it.
You’re right, ladders are not necessarily make-or-break for most of the playerbase.
Ladders are still awesome for reasons already explained. ArenaNet is sitting on a wealth of statistics with their databases, it’s kind of sad they don’t have proper ladders. At the very least give us a REST API so 3rd parties can create their own ladders, if the problem is lack of web developers.
There is a QP leaderboard thread, but unfortunately ArenaNet has deemed that only hardcore team players should have laddders — thus excluding 99% of their playerbase.
Is it so hard for ArenaNet to just make a Rank-based ladder and include the top 15,000 players?
Anyone remember the old ladder webpage for Rank 14 in Vanilla WoW? Good times.
Ladders, free-to-play.
I don’t really understand this post.
My argument is about what makes a game an E-Sport. Minecraft is not an E-Sport. It has viewership from unique game-play and sheer entertainment value.
Don’t get me wrong, this is very much a chicken-or-the-egg scenario. A game needs to be compelling to have viewers, but money can also drive viewers because there is real-life impact at stake. All I’m saying is I think tPvP in its current form is 1st-party cash-prize tournament ready. Blizzard hosts their own cash-prized tournaments, I’m just saying ArenaNet should do the same. I do not however think this game is anywhere close to 3rd-party championships (MLG, etc.).
Esports isn’t about giving a few hardcore players a chance to win money.
No viewership, no esport.
Money brings viewership. Nobody would watch nor professionally play football, baseball, etc. if enormous amounts of money wasn’t involved.
Viewership makes a game spectate worthy, but that doesn’t necessarily make it an E-Sport. Minecraft has a lot of viewers on Twitch, it’s not an E-Sport. E-Sports have cash-prize championships, like real-life sports. Notice all the games here are widely viewed on Twitch: http://www.esportsearnings.com/
Also, E-Sports are such because they have tournaments with real-money prizes. If ArenaNet is sitting on some cash, how about monthly tournaments among top teams that reward some small checks? There’s no easier way to draw skilled competition to a game them rewarding real money for their play. And no, gems don’t count (unless you can convert gems to $$$)
I would say at least a year is accurate given current rate of sPvP content. They need spectating tools and a proper ladder that is NOT a forum sticky to be E-Sport capable. Moreover, I’m not sold Conquest alone is E-Sport spectate worthy. It gets kind of boring. I think it’s more enjoyable to spectate arenas when it comes to MMOs.
At the moment GW2 has 167 streamers on Twitch.tv. Compare that to 8,000 on WoW, 8.5k SC2, or 29k LoL. You’re not an E-Sport if you can’t maintain front-page status of Twitch. Having built-in dead-easy streaming to Twitch would help this game a lot, I know it’s kind of rare for PC games but some newer console games (I think the new CoD) are starting to do it and it’s quite brilliant. (Especially from a marketing perspective, as you’re allowing your customers to market your game to Twitch for non-customers to become interested)
(edited by Gilgamesh.2561)
They need to fix the weapon-swap drop for this “fix” to really be counted. I imagine most experienced Engineers are using the weapon-swap key to drop their kits because it’s a common key — it’s easier to drop with the weapon-swap key than remember what kit key you’re using. (especially in PvP when it’s really fast paced and you’re swapping kits all over the place)
They’ve fixed the Svanir bug. Removing the ice block through stun removal now removes the invulnerability . (I’ve test it; also see patch notes under “General”)
I’m not sure how I feel about the grenade sPvP damage nerf. Experienced grenadiers were used to the throw delay and could adapt well enough, so this change is more of a net nerf.
Bizarre, they are bugged for me with one or the other. I’m testing them in a build that only has 10 points spent to get Hair Trigger and Jump Shot is bugged. (15 → 14 → 13 → 15)
Hair trigger and Fire Forged trigger cause issues with cool down timers when used together. When both are included in a build several abilities have their cool down reset during the cooldown. IE; Jumpshot goes on cool down showing 16s left, then at 14s jumps back to 16s. These traits cause no issues when used separately.
Using solely Hair Trigger or Fireforged Trigger the cooldowns are bugged for either. Where are you getting the “together” from? Did you test them separately and only find it bugged with them together?
I posted the bug a month or two ago in the bug thread, in-game reporting, as well bug forum, along with a YouTube video that showed the bug very clearly in the aforementioned spells.
So with the trait magnet / gear shield cripple. Which should be awesome!
Are you sure the cripple wasn’t always there? Also the cripple only applies to Throw Wrench and Smack, not all the skills.
Hair Trigger and Fireforged Trigger are not properly cooling down in sPvP, I don’t know about PvE. I don’t think any pistol skills are bugged, but when I use Jump Shot, Air Blast, Super Elixir, and a few others, the CDs go down a few seconds and then reset back up. It’s being doing this for a month or two, on various Engineer characters and even separate computers.
Play around with Magnet, the new pull range is pretty lol. Too bad it doesn’t pull people off ledges.
I am disappointed Fireforged Trigger and Hair Trigger are still bugged in sPvP, but at least Tool Kit stuff was fixed.
Hm, I’m not seeing either of those and I just tested it in game. You in PvP or PvE? I would find it hard to believe since it’s not documented in the patch notes.
Some of the bad:
- Fireforged Trigger is still broken in sPvP. The CDs of Air Blast, Super Elixir, and a few others are bugged.
- Hair Trigger is still broken in sPvP. The CDs of Jump Shot and Net Shot are still bugged.
- Elite Supplies still does nothing for Mortar range increase.
Some of the good:
- Power Wrench recharge reduction is finally fixed in sPvP!
- Gear Shield now blocks for 3 seconds (+1 second)! This is fantastic.
- Magnet now pulls from 1,200 range! I have been recommending this forever, thank you!
There’s quite a few bugged Engineer traits I have been waiting for fixes forever. They have been broken forever, if not since beta. If they aren’t fixed in this upcoming patch, I’ll probably stop playing until they are fixed. They aren’t game breaking, but they certainly prevent me from trying new and interesting builds, many of which I think may play better than the builds I’m currently using.
Some of you are too hopeful.
They are unlikely to do any sweeping changes to any profession until they fix what is broken. There are still dozens of bugged traits and mechanics for every profession (see sticky threads at the top of each profession forum).
tl;dr: Don’t expect any meaningful buffs or massive profession changes until all the bugs that have been around since beta are fixed.
Uh, they didn’t remove the trinity for PvP. The entire point of removing the trinity is so forming groups in PvE for dungeons was faster.
It’s not like it’s hard to form groups in WoW for PvP. You grab healers and DPS. Finding a tank for PvE has always been the hardest part.
Make all games 5v5. Eliminate 8V8s.
Agreed.
Remove the option of choosing pvp servers. Create a hot join option for each map. Allow players to queue solo or as a group of max 4. Allow player to play along side their their friends instead of against them.
Disagree. Single or group queuing free tPvP is your solution.
Matchmaking teams in the hot join according to the a rank of players, somewhat of a handicap type system where you would always face opponents the same level as yours. (Queuing as a group should raise your handicap some how so a organized group either faces another organized group or simply way more experienced player.)
It’s called hot-join because it’s instant. If you make it have queues then it’s not hot-join anymore.
Demand a full group of 5 in order to queue for Free tournaments.
Disagree. Since paid tournaments already demand a group of 5, I see no reason to demand it for free tournaments.
Free tournaments need to pair PuGs and partial premades against each other, and full premades against each other. I’m a casual player, but I don’t want to do hot-join even if it was 5v5. I like the tPvP 3-round rotation, and I like the rewards. I don’t want to be forced into hot-join simply because I queue solo. There are far far far more casual players than there are those who run teams, so why is ArenaNet catering to its minority customer base?
Until they allow custom dyes instead of red/blue, aesthetics is kind of meh. I hardly pay attention what my opponent is wearing. They’re just red or blue.
Assuming “high skill level” (read: ability to click your interact key as soon as the enemy is downed), it’s evident that some downed states allow greater survability from the moment the player is downed. For example, an engineer cannot survive against more than 1 player trying to stomp them as soon as they are downed. Some professions however can immediately evade or travel to avoid multi-stomping.
While this is great, I fear ArenaNet will never actually implement intuitive dueling in this game and will instead defer to Custom Arenas for dueling. Yea, it works, but it’s a roundabout and complicated way of doing it. It also means you have to advertise your server to get a diverse group of duelists.
I just wish they built an area in The Mists, say an arena, that allowed 1v1 dueling. Give us something to do while waiting for tPvP queues.
I don’t expect any direct buffs, but I am hoping for a slew of fixes for our many broken traits. That would indirectly translate to buffs.
i think that some kind of rating should be #1 in your list, because playing constantly against MUCH worse or MUCH better teams is terrible, frustrating and definitely not fun…
Actually, there is matchmaking based on rank. If you’re constantly facing too good or bad of teams, it means there aren’t enough teams queuing and rather than making your team wait an extra hour for a queue it queues you with what’s available.
Enough Tournaments, come on! Like 80 % of the PvP community do not join tourneys at all (or very VERY casualy). You got the qualifying points already, finally something for the “rest” (the majority) of the community
Your sentiment is confusing. We were asking that it also be added to the tPvP rotation, not that it’s exclusive to tPvP. Also, I’m a complete casual and I only do free tournaments. There are more casuals doing free tPvP solo-queuing than you think.
PuGs vs PuGs.
Teams vs Teams.
The way it should always be. Anything else is flawed.
hot-join = working
free tPvP = broken
paid tPvP = working
Hopefully ArenaNet implements this sooner than later.
That is kind of depressing.
Can we ever expect new maps for tournaments?
I understand tournaments are 3 rounds, so to add more maps would mean either more rounds or 3 rounds and what map you get is random. I think the latter would work.
If it’s hot-join there’s not much you can do. Leave and join another game.
If it’s tournament: report them. (however it’s unlikely anything will ever happen unless that person is a repeat offender of AFKing. Most people who AFK have good reason to because something IRL has come up)
There’s supposedly a PvP update or two this month. I somewhat doubt custom arenas will be included, and I’m inclined to think most the changes will be balance and bug changes. Honestly, I’m fine with just that if they do a super amount. There are professions with horribly broken traits that have been broken since beta weekend event 1. They need a massive profession bug fix patch that’s like 5 times the size of their previous ones.
Quickness as it stands is broken. Make it speed up cooldowns instead or nerf it some.
There’s various solutions to allow casuals to enjoy tPvP, it’s just a question of whether ArenaNet will implement them.
I still agree with another poster in that ArenaNet wants PuGs in free tournaments so they are food to premades. Why else do they allow us casuals to queue for tPvP? Sure, the few actual teams get bored of PuG stomping, but the majority of premades are in it for rank grinding and would prefer to face PuGs all day.
Which professions don’t have at least 1 build that grants a lot of boons?
There is no engineer build where we have “every buff” all the time.
Vigor and Swiftness we can have up nearly 100% due to Speedy Kits and Invigorating Swiftness.
Protection can have fairly high up-time with certain runes plus protection-proc traits.
We can have a few stacks of Might up all the time with Juggernaut.
We have a trait that gives regeneration as long as a kit is equipped.
If you are using Elixir C, and you have traited it down to around 30 second CD, you can convert conditions to boons fairly often.
Potentially you can use a bunch of elixirs to buff yourself for long durations, but you’re nerfing yourself in other areas.
You’re exaggerating nonetheless. We don’t even have signets that give passive 100% up-time of boons.
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Logically, hot-join should prepare you for tournaments. The fact that it’s 8v8 and not 5v5 makes it a poor environment for preparation. The meta is completely different.
You’d have a lot less balance complaints if you made hot-join 5v5. So many people complain about professions that are imbalanced in 8v8, but not necessarily in tournaments.
Please add it to the tournament rotation. People would hate underwater less if they actually got to play it regularly. The 3 maps get very boring.
Splitting up the tournaments into Paid versus Free is a terrible division… it should be Solo (or duo) versus Premade groups. I’m pretty much done with sPvP until this happens, as it’s not a lot of fun being on either side of the Solo versus Premade stomp.
I like the idea someone else brought up, that people have honestly been asking forever:
- Make hot-join 5v5. It’s already PuG-only. Make the rewards more comparable to Free Tournaments, or people will complain. For example, winning should reward a bronze/silver chest. This would encourage hot-join to also be less about farming kills, and less people would drop out too.
- Free tournaments – premade only. This is practice area.
- Paid tournaments – much better rewards than free. Premades only.
Why do they put pugs in with premades in all mmos? Because it makes premades feel special first off, but secondly- because not enough people are interested in premade pvp. If they didn’t, premade queues would never pop because very few premades want to face premades- as long as there’s a good chance of stomping a pug though it’s great.
There are people who want a challenge- and they’re the ones who will say ‘we want it to be premade vs premade only’. But, look at all the responses of people in premades saying there shouldn’t be a pug queue- those are the people who hate a challenge, and that’s a lot of people.
Of course- puggers are also a big group, and it’s been shown again and again that they do leave mmos that make pvp a painful experience- look at the state of TOR’s pvp for a perfect example of a game ruined by making the game extremely unpleasant for casuals.
At the least- you don’t have to gear up in this game, so until another game does that for pvp this is casual’s best bet.
Great post.
PuGs are the catalyst to encourage premades. Without PuGs in free tournaments, a lot of premades wouldn’t exist because they would lose against real teams and be discouraged from future tournament participation. PuGs are their carrot-on-a-stick to keep playing. Unfortunately we may be too tasty of a carrot, because these premades are sticking with Free tournaments instead of switching to Paid.
MMOs = Honestly, it’s either this or WoW. Or GW1.
Others = MOBAs arguably have the most balanced and competitive PvP. Try HoN/DOTA 2/LoL. If you like RTS try SC2.
My advice is look around on Twitch and see what people are playing. Don’t just look at the top games, dig a little deeper and you might see something you like.
will stunbreak not working with blowouts/knockbacks ever get fixed?
in PvP
Posted by: Gilgamesh.2561
It isn’t a bugged mechanic. Every elite transform in the game provides a stability buff in addition to the transform. It doesn’t say stability 20seconds or until you exit the form, it simply says stability.
It’s called a gimmick. You are enabling and disabling a transformation, an Elite Skill mind you, only for a boon. The primary benefit of the skill is the transformation, but people are finding more value from the boon than the transformation. A gimmick.
Something is a gimmick when it’s observably silly in how it works. Logically you should only have boons given from a transformation while transformed.
We don’t know if this is intended or not because ArenaNet hasn’t acknowledged it, and there are so many other bugged traits and skills in this game it’s not possible to rule it as intended.
(it goes without saying this is all of my opinion)
will stunbreak not working with blowouts/knockbacks ever get fixed?
in PvP
Posted by: Gilgamesh.2561
I don’t want to derail this into a thread about engineers. I don’t even care one way or the other. I was somewhat amused you offered a clearly unintended and bugged mechanic (canceling Elixir X) as a solution.
It’s amazing how every thread derails into thief complaining. You can really tell who has a one track mind on this forum. This thread was about no single profession and was attempting to be constructive, but sure enough like every other thread it’s been derailed. The OP even alluded to this happening.
It’s like Godwin’s Law, but thieves.
will stunbreak not working with blowouts/knockbacks ever get fixed?
in PvP
Posted by: Gilgamesh.2561
it’s balanced since engineer has the most knockbacks
/hatersgonnahate
Guardian has as many knockbacks (and honestly more useful because many of them are AoE), and has more stability. Argument: void.
sPvP was great fun.... till Paid tournements and no rank system killed it....
in PvP
Posted by: Gilgamesh.2561
You would think ArenaNet would try to appeal to PuGs more considering there are far more players who PuG than those who run regular 5-man teams.
They appeal to casuals in PvE plenty, but not so much in PvP.
I already stated in another thread, but:
- Make premades only fight premades in Free and Paid.
- Premades currently farm Free because it is more rewarding to stomp PuGs than it is to actually face a challenge in Paid.
- Paid queues are slow because all the premades are unskillfully farming Free.
If you’re pugging, why would you join tpvp as opposed to spvp? I thought the purpose for tpvp was to reward groups of coorindated play.
I already answered that. If tPvP is meant for groups, ArenaNet should remove the option to queue alone. Why else would it be there for? They seem to think it’s a PuGable environment when it really isn’t.
So what happens when you queue with only two people?
Three?
Four?Are you solo or a group? Did it solve the issues of PUG’s vs Organized groups?
All you did was successfully increase queue times.
Partial groups are still identifiable because they queued as a group. However, because they will have PuGs, they’ll still be pitted against PuGs and not full premades. However, if I were ArenaNet I would match partial groups against other partial groups to the best I could.
I have won many games as a PuG against partial groups. Most cases you have 2 or 3 people queuing together, and it’s still possible to have victory.
as aktiv pvp player with over 900 tournaments played, its feeling like over 75% of the player are quitted GW2.
Waiting OVER 60 MINUTES FOR PAID is a pain….
Anet said Free and PAID will split up ppl…. but there arent any ppl to split up.
Presure the release with an awfull pvpsystem was your worst idea.
Your response could be more constructive..
According to your post the problem is that, due to long queues, no premades are queuing for Paid and instead are continuing to queue for Free. An ironic situation because Paid queues would not be long if people queued for it, but it’s understandable that people value their time and may not have the patience.
Premades also may be queuing for Free because they’re not good enough for Paid.
It sounds to me the ideal solution is encouraging premades to queue for Paid, and I would do that by preventing them from facing PuGs. PuGs are an easy win. Premades would more likely queue for Paid if they knew they would only face other premades in Free. At that point the rewards and time of Free aren’t comparable.
As long as premades can stomp PuGs in free, free is better for farming rank.