Guild Wars 2

loseridoit.2756:

Glenn.3417:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Glenn.3417:

Ermahgerd 30 sec stun break cool downs. Necro stun breaks are 60secs and even crappier stability, please tell me more.

You need to trait and spec for condition removal, guess what the fear necro has to trait and spec into fear. You say you play mesmer, maybe you ought to take a closer look at your class and learn to play it better.

we have ZERO stability. Necro can trait for it on DS and have it on TWO Elites. Yes they have to trait to make it BETTER but its not as if its awful to start with, minus the damage from Terror fear is still offers like 3-4seconds of fear when you take 2 Utilities and 1 weapon.

The difference being that we LOSE ALOT when forced to trait for ONE build type (Conditions) With all the traits high in the trait line and all the involved skills long cool downs and when compared to the current burst easy condition meta its pretty much pointless.

So, what exactly does the Necro lose out on if they go the Fear route with Teeror, they can also get Fear increasing items, runes and think they have traits for it as well.

lets not forget you get Death Shroud for EVEN more health, abilities, fear and can be VERY powerful as well.

Zero stability eh? Know your class eh?
Captain obvious to the rescue Ermahgerd.

That’s 4 secs of stability (without any boon duration increase from stats and or gear) on a 25 sec cd. Get’s even more if you trait for mantras.

Forced to trait for one build type? Guess what conditions builds are used on alot of classes and not just necro.

We get fear increasing items? Well, you get condition decreasing items.

You obviously have no idea what so ever.

so, you want mesmers to make a sub par build

nice……….

dude, lots of mesmers already adapted. they rolled a necro……

So you want necros to run a sup par build?

Nice ……..

Dude lot’s of necros adapted, they rerolled warrior/guardian/mesmer……

Go troll someplace else.

Guess they broke one of the anet commandments; Thou shalt not complain about our golden child.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Glenn.3417:

Ermahgerd 30 sec stun break cool downs. Necro stun breaks are 60secs and even crappier stability, please tell me more.

You need to trait and spec for condition removal, guess what the fear necro has to trait and spec into fear. You say you play mesmer, maybe you ought to take a closer look at your class and learn to play it better.

we have ZERO stability. Necro can trait for it on DS and have it on TWO Elites. Yes they have to trait to make it BETTER but its not as if its awful to start with, minus the damage from Terror fear is still offers like 3-4seconds of fear when you take 2 Utilities and 1 weapon.

The difference being that we LOSE ALOT when forced to trait for ONE build type (Conditions) With all the traits high in the trait line and all the involved skills long cool downs and when compared to the current burst easy condition meta its pretty much pointless.

So, what exactly does the Necro lose out on if they go the Fear route with Teeror, they can also get Fear increasing items, runes and think they have traits for it as well.

lets not forget you get Death Shroud for EVEN more health, abilities, fear and can be VERY powerful as well.

Zero stability eh? Know your class eh?
Captain obvious to the rescue Ermahgerd.

That’s 4 secs of stability (without any boon duration increase from stats and or gear) on a 25 sec cd. Get’s even more if you trait for mantras.

Forced to trait for one build type? Guess what conditions builds are used on alot of classes and not just necro, so you face those builds on a anyway. That’s like saying it’s stupid if someone has to trait for defence cause burst builds do too much dmg.

We get fear increasing items? Well, you get condition decreasing items.

You obviously have no idea what so ever.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Glenn.3417:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Glenn.3417:

Yet they have perma stealth…..

Learn to play, we can fear ever since the game came out.

Yeah OUT of combat, in combat they have the debuff after using Stealth.

Did you have all this other stuff at the start of the game? No. So your point about Fear being in the game since the start means nothing as its the changes they made that have made it an issue.

Guess you never heard of stability, stunbeakers, condition cleaners. All of which effectively cure fear, all of which are widely and easily accessible on classes.

Im a Mesmer, WTB Stability and GOOD Condition Removal

We have plenty of Stun Breaks, we have ZERO stability and VERY poor (before and after traited) Condition cleanse and if we trait it to actually to the point its worthwhile we lose 2 Utilities and require ALOT of trait usage.

Our stun break Utilities are on 30+second cool downs, we take them and we lose out on condition removal, we take Condition removal we lose out on Stun breaks…

Ermahgerd 30 sec stun break cool downs. Necro stun breaks are 60secs and even crappier stability, please tell me more.

You need to trait and spec for condition removal, guess what the fear necro has to trait and spec into fear. You say you play mesmer, maybe you ought to take a closer look at your class and learn to play it better.

Following the abundant cries about us/dumbfire, being op anet nerfed it.

Now that all those crybabies got that accomplished, they have set their targets on our fear (which btw already took a 17% dmg nerf).

Atleast several anti fear posts and topics have emerged in the spvp forum.

These ppl really ought to find a more constructive hobby lol.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Glenn.3417:

Yet they have perma stealth…..

Learn to play, we can fear ever since the game came out.

Yeah OUT of combat, in combat they have the debuff after using Stealth.

Did you have all this other stuff at the start of the game? No. So your point about Fear being in the game since the start means nothing as its the changes they made that have made it an issue.

Guess you never heard of stability, stunbeakers, condition cleaners. All of which effectively cure fear, all of which are widely and easily accessible on classes.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Thesilentflute.8761:

They can stunlock and kill you before you can do anything it wasn’t ok when thieves could do it its not ok now.

THIS. Being Chain feared to death isnt fun. Just like Thief stealth has that debuff so they cant reenter for 4seconds the same should apply for Fear (of any class) that once someone has been feared the become immune to fear for X number of seconds.

Yet they have perma stealth…..

Learn to play, we can fear ever since the game came out.

ENOUGH with the necro QQ.

First Dumbfire was the qq, it got nerfed.
Now fear is the problem (which btw has been nerfed by 17%).

Necros can fear ever since release, stop crying like a kitten and learn to kittening play.

Awesome fights at Hills in Abaddon bordeland tonight.
You guys sure build a hella lot acs. :b
Hope the rest of the week is just as fun.

Oidmetala.8426:

Drakula.8405:

The developers answer just prove what is the situation— Necro in this game are the MINORITY!!! compare to other classes, 30% of player base in Gw2 are guardians 24% war and when ppl from that classes cry about necro and ask nerf for our class what u expect ???
Guardians cry about nerf Corrupted Boon — was nerf after that terror now the fire damage ….were u guys going with this ?? to delete my class and be force to play other class that i don’t like .

Since an ele started this thread and since the result was a nerf i’m very disappointed .

GUYS DON’T LIE TO YOURSELF THEY DON’T WANT ANY KIND OF NECRO IN THE NEW META!
I’m waiting to the point when i will be like i was a free kill in spvp just like all mesmer /thief/ele wants.

I hope will not become the bunkers fight in the new meta since the only thing that killed a bunker was conditions but is this what u ask for .

Pls don’t balance this class with the suggestion from other class players in the future

sad, but your main class is still op.
i have do 1vs1 before the nerf and after the nerf vs necromancer.
still cant win it. (no ulti use)
dont know wheres the logic on necros atm.
win nearly each1vs1 and be a beast at the teamfight.
also win vs builds just created for 1vs1s…
simple kite enemys and stay on distance when spam them to hell…
np with enough cripple, fear and slows…

for sure the qq against necro is huge, because nearly nobody can beat this atm.
there are only some less builds can win a necro atm
and this also not so easy…
sry but playing necro need not much skill atm, start spam is most time enough to bring enemy player fast in trouble and defensive, because its like a condi burst.
also double fear is lame like hell when u hit the staff fear and spam fast the ds fear then and maybe put the fear wall after when its a point defender you fight there… wow, gg.
most lame profession atm and most easy to play one.
no reason to defend this, im not calling much for nerfs, but because necro, fun stoped hard to play this game atm… (well when i play a bit necro then not, because its like godmode)
see teams play double necro is reason enough to start thinking…

a necro on khylo trebu is a huge problem atm when you face one of this much double necro teams.

Hahaha, still so much crying vs necros.
Funny thing is as a Minion necro (the most broken form of necro builds) I have no problem vs the so called “OP” condition dumbfire necros.
And I should be the easiest target for them, 1 condition “cleaner” (Deadly Swarm) and a bunch of secondary targets for them to go nuts on with epidemic.
You ppl need to get your head outa your rear end and man up.

Loco.4561:

To [UNIT] Desolation, seriously? Why couldn’t you just let me 1v1 your group member did it really need 5 of you to gank me then jump on my corpse. The kittenty sportsmanship on your server is what makes people think you are all just a blobby bunch of kittens.

I’m just one SOLO player trying to get some good fights out of this horrible blobfest matchup.

Your players do just the same to us (Gwen guild, Balkan Legion).
Piken are such hypocrites “we don’t blob”, “deso are lootbags”.
Did vizunah send some of it’s trolls over to you? You sure got the running away part down.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I think the hit to dhuumire was the only thing the devs could pull off without exacerbating the problems the necro already has. Dhuumfire is a trait that is alright in 1 vs. 1, and has little impact in larger engagements. The place where the necro had the most power to survivability was in 1 vs. 1, where they could more reliably use terror to lock down a player, and where protection and DS were their most potent.

It is really hard to make a fix otherwise, since the necromancer is in an uneasy place from which there seems to be no balance:

Survivability: great when you are by yourself and can build up Life Force, terrible in groups where you are helpless to focus and are vulnerable to CC.

Damage: Good when you are by yourself and the opponent has limited cleanses and stun breakers. Bad in groups where you are easily peeled, there are more cleanses about, and when your offense is reliant on blowing all cooldowns or an incredibly situational epidemic.

Whatever makes a necro weaker in 1 vs. 1 makes them much weaker in groups, and whatever makes them stronger in groups makes them much stronger in 1 vs. 1. No other class suffers from such a fierce dichotomy, mostly because the resources the necro has are all finite, and the skills that other players use in such a situation are all lacking on the necro.

I do have on idea. Someone else on the Necro forum mentioned the idea of having Death Shroud get a scaling damage reduction based on a number of players around. That is fine, however I’d like to go one step simpler.

So, for necromancer survival, I will come up with a very simple suggestion. I do not know if it is good or not, but it potentially will solve some of the problems necromancers have:

Make it so, while in Death Shroud, Necromancers do not take direct damage, period. Then, increase the degen on Death Shroud to be at 20% per second, giving them 5 seconds of DS time at a full bar, before traits are applied. The soul reaping line, instead of increasing the size of the Life Force bar, will instead give a scaling increase to how quickly Life Force is generated (maximum 30% increase).

This will make it so Death Shroud is, in essence, a block. It now has infinite potential mitigation, but a short time limit that a player has to slowly build up throughout the battle. For most tactical uses, DS will be used only for a second or two at most, used while at 50% of Life Force out of necessity for defense. Also note that the necromancer is not immune to unblockable attacks, CC, or conditions. Just direct damage.

The offensive skills of Death Shroud do suffer from this, however in the PVP I do not think this is much of a problem. For the most part, players would just pop in to DS to use Doom then Dark Path, or Tainted Shackles + Life Transfer really quickly, maybe firing off a Life Blast alongside of it. In PVE, players generated Life Force very quickly from basic mobs, and also Life Force gaining is a bit easier to obtain in PVE due to how basic mob movement is. However, I have borrowed some suggestions earlier (It is scary how rarely I have an original thought) to increase the Necromancer’s effectiveness in PVE, and with those changes the lack of a nar endlessly spammable Life Blast shouldn’t be a problem.

I run a Death Shroud build in pve and wvw and this idea would complete shut builds like that down. We have the option, hell a bunch of traits for offensive ds use. I personally have no prob with ds as it is, cept for maybe the overflow to hp (pve wise).

To the Piken nabs from the Gwen guild who decided to mob us (me and dueling abba player), grow a pair.

Phantaram.1265:

Saltare.5789:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, here’s the deal. I’m hearing different things from everyone I talk to.

1. Necro DS is too much and should be brought down
2. Necro damage is too much and should be brought down
3. Necro survivability is bad

“DS is too much”

It’s not when you consider our complete lack of evade, vigor, block, and invulnerability. You cannot heal in deathshroud. Not to mention we have terrible mobility, and you have to take the time to build life force, which is hard at the beginning of the match or as a bunker.

“Damage is too much”

Dhuumfire is what everyone is complaining about, yes? What necros want to know is why it was even implemented. No one running the standard condi build asked for burning. The specs that need burning are power/hybrid builds, and they aren’t about to put 30 points into spite to get it.

Condi necros didn’t need burning – you gave us torment which is enough to protect our bleeds, and our damage was fine. What we needed was better mobility OR access to vigor, block, invuln, or evade.

“Survivability is bad”

Against anyone who knows what they’re doing, IT IS. Remember what I said above? No block. No evade. No vigor. No invuln. A stunbreaker utility that isn’t going to be chosen over Spectral Armor now. A distinct lack of mobility/escapes.

All someone has to do against a necro is stunlock or assist train them to death. I honestly don’t see why it takes several 1vx videos to see the survivability problem.

Right now DS is not too much because damage in this game is crazy and it’s almost impossible to get the damage off of you (evade spamming thief, 1200 range necros, shortbow spamming rangers) Once some of this damage is nerfed and less reliably applied people will feel hopeless against the new necromancers deathshroud. Some classes already do like elementalist.

Your analysis on burning is spot on.

However your analysis on survivability I will disagree with. Necromancer survivability is absolutely higher than most of these classes that have access to the vigor and invulnerabilities you are talking about. Especially elementalist as I have direct experience with both against top teams in this meta, and I survive way longer on my necromancer. That isn’t to say I don’t get melted to stealth openers at the beginning of the game, but who doesn’t get melted by stealth openers? Even guardians get instagibbed by it there isn’t any stopping it reliably and necromancers actually have a chance if the other team doensn’t coordinate right and I pop plague form as I see the damage start hitting, which has happened.

I just spend around 4 hours dueling a friend his ele on my necro.

Both as minion build and as power build my ds can’t soak up nearly as much dmg as you claim it can. Start a battle with 0 ds, like a realistic situation and learn ALL aspects of the necro before you cry about us having too much survivability. Change DS and you effectively ruin all minion and power builds aswell.
The problem, which has been said a thousand times by ALL necros on the forum is dumbfire, remove that godforsaken trait that none ever asked for in the first place and all your problems are solved. No more “op burst” from burning meaning you have more time to kill them.

On a side note, as a power/minion necro I have no problems facing the dumbfire meta build myself. I run no cond cleaning skills on that build cept for Deadly Swarm on offhand dagger. They are killable and not op with their ds. As an ele main yourself you have way more burst than me and you find them op?

shimmerless.4560:

chaosgrimm some of what you have said about pvp (i’m ignoring the pve stuff as this is the spvp board after all) is strange. it is not hard to remove stabil or vigor corrupt boon (sp?) is up every half minute or so. why would they cover it with invuln? it would be completely redundant.

Corrupt boon has a 40 sec cooldown (unless traited for but no one takes that trait) and it misses more often than we’d like to. It also got nerfed quite hard recently, now only removes 5 boons and stability is somewhere at the bottom of the priority list.

I see people complaining about corrupt boon, epidemic, all our spectral skills, heck even our signets. You do realise we only have 3 utility skill slots right?

Phantaram.1265:

Caffynated.5713:

I felt like necro was mostly OK before this patch. They were the strongest class in game by a small margin, but they had some strong counters. Their lack of mobility was made up for with their great built in survivability even in a glass cannon spec. They could melt you if you didn’t focus fire them, but they couldn’t handle being trained or chain CC’d.

Now, they have just as much damage (terror nerf isn’t even equivalent to 1 stack of bleeding) but we’re juggernauts in death shroud with life force coming out of our ears.

The one major drawback to dhuumfire + terror specs was their poor life force generation. It kept them in check by limiting their ability to use death shroud for attack and defense. The buff to base mark size freed up the points needed to get soul marks (and of course the bonus spectral armor) and coupled with the increased life force generation from spectrals, dhuumfire glass cannons now have an abundance of life force. Couple that with the bug fix to DS ability to soak damage, and it has more than doubled the survivability of a “glass” cannon that was already fairly stout to begin with.

I think this is a pretty accurate analyzation of what has happened between the last 2 patches. +1 Caffynated!

Buffing necromancer damage to what it was may not have been the right decision because it didn’t affect necromancer playstyle much just made them viable through sheer damage. Now with 20 in soul reaping + spectral armor buff + the new deathshroud necromancers playstyle is exactly where it should be but now they have the high damage that got implemented before.

So I think what happens when we nerf the damage a bit is that we have necromancers with a proper playstyle but is moved more toward balance.

Thanks for the kind words Allie! Glad you have provided these forums with some transparency and love lately <3

No offence mate, but if you’re only going to comment one ppl who agree with your choice of nerfing the necro and ignoring comments about the actual veteran necro players it couldn’t be more obvious of how biased you are.

If you’d actually played necro for longer than 6 hours you’d know that even with the spectral changes necro is no where as op as you claim it to be.
I also saw the video where (I think it was you) showed how your necro friend can eat your ele burst, no necro starts a fight with over 50% ds. So if you’d do that in a realistic setting, that burst would simply flow over in his hp, pretty fast and leaving him with much needed def skills on cd.

jmatb.6307:

Glenn.3417:

jmatb.6307:

I have no idea how people are this clueless about Necro. Blows my mind.

If their range is brought to 600 to 900 on their best condi weapons and even globally, they will have to earn their place. That’s the easiest solution I can think of. The damage would be more telegraphed and if 2 Necros are on the same point blowing it up they will have to eat what they are sending out.

Engi would be the alternative to Necro for condi pressure if you want range. Would bombs suffer? No, because Engis have outs that Necros don’t and that makes them great at pushing far point. Would Bomb Engi replace necro? Hell no, because nobody can punk a Guardian like a Necro can and bunk Guards are VITAL in tpvp at midpoint.

See how that works? I hope Anet sees this logic

You’re so far off track it’s getting sad.

You do realise an engi can apply conditions with grenades, at a range of 1500 right. Seeing as you talk about range and conditions.

What do you not understand? 300 range means absolutely nothing in comparison to what Necros can do with it compared to Engis.

Grenades are pitiful in comparison to what you can do with marks and Scepter / Dagger right now. If you have to be at 600 to 900 range you have to earn that.

You can reflect grenades. A Feedback will make a stupid Nade Engi eat all of his nades. S/D autoattack is instant cast. Enfeebling Blood and Grasping Dead cannot be reflected. Marks affect a 180 radius from 1200 range, 240 radius if you trait it, and you can’t reflect them.

You can AoE fear 3 or 4 people at once with that kind of radius with Reaper’s Mark. You can put poison and chill on the same number. There is no reason whatsoever to bring a Nades Engi right now, and they have been dominant prior to this metagame.

That isn’t an accident. Midrange necro is a balanced Necro. Attrition from range is broken, especially now that burst does nothing to a spectrals Necro.

5 words for you: learn 2 play classes & condition removal!

jmatb.6307:

I have no idea how people are this clueless about Necro. Blows my mind.

If their range is brought to 600 to 900 on their best condi weapons and even globally, they will have to earn their place. That’s the easiest solution I can think of. The damage would be more telegraphed and if 2 Necros are on the same point blowing it up they will have to eat what they are sending out.

Engi would be the alternative to Necro for condi pressure if you want range. Would bombs suffer? No, because Engis have outs that Necros don’t and that makes them great at pushing far point. Would Bomb Engi replace necro? Hell no, because nobody can punk a Guardian like a Necro can and bunk Guards are VITAL in tpvp at midpoint.

See how that works? I hope Anet sees this logic

You’re so far off track it’s getting sad.

You do realise an engi can apply conditions with grenades, at a range of 1500 right. All aoe conditions, where as neco scepter only has Grasping Dead as an aoe, does crap base dmg and has a pretty useless #3 skill for a cond weapon (cept for maybe the lf gain).

Bhawb.7408:

The problem is that every high level tPvP player thinks only in terms of what is currently used in the meta. They aren’t talking about support Necros, MMs, power necros, etc. they are thinking about the 30/20/X/X/X, which is still really strong.

Indeed, if they mess around with our dps and ds like Phanta suggests all other builds are going to suffer.

Atm they have one Foot in the Grave, after that we’ll have both feet in the grave and burried 6ft under.

jmatb.6307:

Spectrals are worthless?! What planet do you live on lol you get a single skill that can eat an entire Ele burst in DS from 1/2 to barely more than 1/4. Without dodging. That is unbelievably strong.

Skills that can “at an entire Ele burst”

Warrior endure pain; check
Guardian renewed focus; check
Mesmer distortion; check
Ele mist form; check
Thief teleports+stealth; check
Engi elixir s; check
Ranger signet of stone; check

And those are just the ones that popped right in my mind, there are even more.

Stop uttering nonsense and trying to bring down a class cause you can’t play yourself.

They are biased.

Phantaram.1265:

I’ve played necro here and there since release but I’ve played necro at least 6 hours both today and yesterday

This guy is totally and utterly clueless about our class, yet asks for “much needed nerfs”.
The fact alone that he posted a topic called “Constructive necromancer thoughts” in the spvp section of the game instead of the obvious necro section.

Sense, it makes none!

Bsgapollo.5364:

Dralor.3701:

Oblivion.8307:

Allie Murdock.8152:

We’re kind of on a time crunch, so yeah

If we’re going to do any hotfixes before the Qualifiers this weekend, they need to be asap.

Here’s a couple of clips from my warrior today a friend asked me to post.

http://www.twitch.tv/symbollix/c/2634515

http://www.twitch.tv/symbollix/c/2633818

How do these clips show that a necro is OP? First fighting multi opponents+no stun break, and second one is mostly the eng. Warriors still need some love but this is probably the wrong thread. =P

Are you kittening kidding me ? It’s really hard to stay calm with people like you. He was running berserker stance which makes him immune to condi’s for 8 seconds + balanced stance which is a stunbreaker. He used both in a previous fight.
What is a person supposed to do, keep his cooldowns specificly for a necro and ignore all the other CC abilities other classes have? + even if you have a stunbreaker it doesn’t matter one bit since a necro can pull up to 3 fears after eachother, (nightmare runes, staf 5 and deathshroud 3) Only thing that can save you from a chain fear is stability which can also completely kitten you over due corrupt boon cause it turns into another fear aswel. )

Look at the first video, he dropped from 14k health to 0 within 2 seconds while he was running a full sustain build
No class should be able to instagib someone within 2 seconds.

Atleast for pyshical classes there are several ways to counter a burst such as protection weakness, retaliation, and even dodges. What is a dodge going to do while the condi’s are already on you and literally eating you alive.

There is no counter to this kind of playstyle and it’s in 1 word lame. The necro can stand at 900~1200 range and simply dealing all his burst. Tell me, which class can deal such insane burst dmg without getting close ? I don’t think there is even 1 class that can do that. There will be a few exceptions but that person will have to put itself at risk because of it.

I hate it when people try to defend a certain class when IT IS clearly overpowered due recent changes.

Again you’re totally clueless. Do you actually play tpvp?
This goes for ALL classes, if I used up all my utility skills in a previous fight and some person comes and bursts me down in 2 secs cause of no defensive skills available I die too.
This is clearly not a good example as it’s just a fragment out of a match, your point is here by invalid.

Again, learn the class before you rage like a little kid on the forums.

Necro to tanky? Reduce our dps?

Any more of these daft crying topics and our class will be totally obsolete everywhere.
Those ppl seriously need to learn to play necro before they run off to anet and cry for nerfs like a spoiled little brat.

Bsgapollo.5364:

Glenn.3417:

Sigh, a new patch with necro changes and again more threads asking for necro nerfs.

First of, a post about “constructive necromancer thoughs” should be placed better in the necromancer forum, not hidden away in the spvp section.

Second, Necros were fine before anet introduced dumbfire. Hardly anyone complained about them. Now that terror has been nerfed, we’re still considered “too strong”, too many conditions? You do realise that an engi can put out equal if not more cond pressure compared to a necro. With stability so easily accessible to most professions, terror is hardly the issue. An engi can stack confusion, which is just as powerfull as terror if not more so.
Too tanky? Life Force has to be build up, it’s not like we go into a fight with full ds.
If you want ds to build up “fast” you have to trait and take spectral skills, cause our weapon skills hardly fill it fast enough to be “tanky”. Sure we can take a hit 1-1, but 2-1 or more and ds melts like it’s nothing. Let alone rebuilding it. With this weeks patch the dmg flows over onto our hp if it runs out.
Condition necros have a very, very slow life force build up, are very squishy (the dumbfire+terror ones) and we have 0 stability. Use cc and you can play ping pong with the necro.
If you’re gonna lower our dps it’s gonna completely destroy condition necros, not to mention power based necros.
How about we start topics like this for every class then?
Ele is too strong, they can go glass cannon and heal most dmg in a matter of seconds for too often, nerf plz.
Warrior can stunlock now, nerf plz.
Thief backstab and heartseeker, nerf plz.
Mesmer insta win elite moa morph, nerf plz.
Bunker guardians can’t be killed, nerf plz.
Etc, etc.
If you really wanna learn necro, you should play it a tad longer than a mere 6 hours now and then before you complain about it.

And before anyone comes trolling “you don’t play necro in spvp you don’t know jack”, I play condition necro, power necro and MM builds in tpvp and spvp.

So funny that you actually think the previous patch nerfed necro while they even buffed it more. They are too strong now and it’s as simple as that. Don’t argue. Their burst should get nerfed, period.

They nerfed terror dmg by 17%, so yeah still a nerf.
And as far as your famous “buffs” go, they fixed a friggin bug that was in it since release, we were getting double dmg in Deathshroud.
How about you come up with some valid and constructive arguments and actually learn the class instead of going “hurr durr necro op, nerf nerf”. -_-

Haha OP was right. They are already calling us “too tanky” and “nerf necro dps” in the spvp section of the forums.
Seriously, we should make topics in EVERY OTHER class section calling them too overpowered and asking for daft nerfs, give them a taste of their own medicine.

Sigh, a new patch with necro changes and again more threads asking for necro nerfs.

First of, a post about “constructive necromancer thoughs” should be placed better in the necromancer forum, not hidden away in the spvp section.

Second, Necros were fine before anet introduced dumbfire. Hardly anyone complained about them. Now that terror has been nerfed, we’re still considered “too strong”, too many conditions? You do realise that an engi can put out equal if not more cond pressure compared to a necro. With stability so easily accessible to most professions, terror is hardly the issue. An engi can stack confusion, which is just as powerfull as terror if not more so.
Too tanky? Life Force has to be build up, it’s not like we go into a fight with full ds.
If you want ds to build up “fast” you have to trait and take spectral skills, cause our weapon skills hardly fill it fast enough to be “tanky”. Sure we can take a hit 1-1, but 2-1 or more and ds melts like it’s nothing. Let alone rebuilding it. With this weeks patch the dmg flows over onto our hp if it runs out.
Condition necros have a very, very slow life force build up, are very squishy (the dumbfire+terror ones) and we have 0 stability. Use cc and you can play ping pong with the necro.
We have no escape abilities what so ever, when we get mobbed we die where as other classes use stealth, teleports and invulnerability to get out. So calling us “too tanky” is total and utter bs.
If you’re gonna lower our dps it’s gonna completely destroy condition necros, not to mention power based necros.

How about we start topics like this for every class then?
Ele is too strong, they can go glass cannon and heal most dmg in a matter of seconds for too often, nerf plz.
Warrior can stunlock now, nerf plz.
Thief backstab and heartseeker, nerf plz.
Mesmer insta win elite moa morph, nerf plz.
Bunker guardians can’t be killed, nerf plz.
Etc, etc.
If you really wanna learn necro, you should play it a tad longer than a mere 6 hours now and then before you complain about it.

And before anyone comes trolling “you don’t play necro in spvp you don’t know jack”, I play condition necro, power necro and MM builds in tpvp and spvp.

Here is what Jonathan Sharp wrote about necro in the spvp section of the forum regarding the current meta:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Oh, also, to the Op’s point (sorry, I’m about to present in China, my mind is elsewhere, didn’t mean to ignore the OP):

The reason we did a “big” change for the Necro, as I’ve stated before, is that we had the Pax tournament coming. We knew we wanted to get Necros and Warriors up with the other classes, and that’s why we had big changes.

Also, a lot of our changes happen VERY far ahead of what you guys see on live. What do I mean?

• It takes us time to get our changes to editors for writing (any text/trait change has to be edited). This can take a week or more.
• We have to then get changes to writers.
• We then have to make sure we work with artists for any visual changes
• We also have to work with sound to make sure we have sound for any changes
• We have to work with icon artists for icons if they’re needed (in the case of Death Shroud 5)
• We have to make sure the changes get through multiple stages of QA testing
• Then with the changes in, we get time to play them before we do final changes
• While doing all this, we have to take the current meta, be it in dungeons/wvw/pvp, and from that, try to extrapolate what we think needs to be done a few months in advance.

This process can take a LONG time, as you can imagine. It’s not as simple as, “Oh, let’s change this to a 2, and change that to a 7.”

I know the video game industry in general is not very transparent when it comes to how things actually work, but I wanted you guys to know that a lot of times, there is a LOT of process for even the SMALLEST balance/content changes.

We get to see how Ridley Scott made Blade Runner with a companion DVD special, but in video games, no one talks about all the complex processes that go into making and balancing a game as complex as GW2 (which is basically 3 games in 1, all using the same balance #’s).

Hope this makes sense.

Oh, also, the reason we can’t give Necro’s too much disengage has to do with the point of “purity of purpose”.

In this game, we want to allow classes the ability to deal with all situations but in different ways. But, if we give all classes all TOOLS (which is a different thing), then players get confused as to which classes fill which roles, and in what way they fill those roles

Example: In PvP, the Necro and Engi both vie for the position of condition pressure. The engineer has more physical alternatives, the Necro has more boon/condition manipulation, the Engi has more escapability, and the Necro is a little squishier. If we gave the Necro too much mobility or escapability, then all of a sudden their “tools” start to line up exactly. If this is the case, one of them will simply be better than the other, as far as efficacy goes, and thus, one will push the other out of the meta for that “role” on the team. This class would then be the “apex” predator for that role. So, in order to prevent this, we try to make it so that the classes don’t have all their tools overlap perfectly. This means you have to say (following our example), “Well, if we take a Necro, we get more condies, but a squishy body that can’t disengage…..but if we take Engi, we lose some DPS and control (depending on utils), but we get someone who can stand up to a spike better”.

Make sense? If we just gave the escape to Necro’s, then all of a sudden, the Necro is just the clear choice. Not all decisions come down to a clean break like this, but this is the type of thing we’re trying to do when we “deny” some classes certain tools.

This is the same reason that Red doesn’t get interrupts in Magic, the reason that Zergs, normally, have much more mobility than Protoss (since Toss are usually stronger unit-by-unit), and why Karthus has no escapes. By denying tools, you create choices for the players. We sometimes do a poor job of this, sorry. But overall, we try to make it so that all classes have choices, and teams have choices in which classes they bring.

Also, keep in mind we’re trying to get 8 classes to fit into 5 slots, for PvE, Dungeons, and PvP.

This is all high level, and I’m in a rush, but I just wanted to explain this real fast…..

It’s funny, being in China, I have more time to post on the forums than I do while in the office. That’s irony or something….like 10,000 spoons….

-Chap from China

Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Current-state-of-the-meta/page/9#post2474136

Gratz to the fools from the Balkan Legion guild for jumping on my corpse, twice already, after roflstomping me with a group. Guess every server has it’s nabs.

Gryph.8237:

or at least make my corpse explode in huge cloud of kitten fire that burns and corrodes everyone within 1200 range…. no limit

then we would be useful…. when we die.

Which would be often, which would result in an actual use for necros, which in term would result in more QQ from thieves and other braindead noobs of us being op.
Dat vicious circle. XD

Remember how fast anet was to reply last patch when we were called op by the crybabies?
We’ll prolly get an answer from them in a few months for our legitimate questions, or in anet’s terms; soon, it’s being worked on.

blurps.2340:

When they promised to give Necros more sustain they were talking about the dancefloor or showing off in Lions Arch rather than combat I guess.

More sustain complains in forums perhaps.

Great build, def will be rolling this as of now.

Some minor suggestions:

Take Blood Fiend as a heal, so ppl can compain you 2vs1 them and overall imba heal.

Signet of Undead in stead of Spectral Walk, for those moments you want stand still for a whole 3 seconds to res someone in a very small aoe. So we can be team players as well.

Evagal.2584:

How did it not ALREADY do this? In fact, I assumed that it DID already do this. You can have 10% lifeforce and swap into deathshroud to eat an entire eviscerate? Is that what is implied without the change? (On live now?) If so,that is EXTREMELY stupid. Lifeforce acts as a second life bar with some utility abilities..why would it NOT pool into your base life bar if it ran out during an attack?

Because necro has 0 escape abilities, unlike all the other classes.

Amazing how first all the crybabies come and whine about necro being op and wanting nerfs. Now that we have been nerfed, in all the wrong areas, they come and troll us lol.

Warrior, mesmers, guardians, thieves; pick your poison.

And I also think we all should do it, just for the kitten it it.

Don’t forget, we’re the only class without any form of reflect projectiles as well.

Excalibur.9748:

Are you people really underestimating the utility of jumping off really high cliffs?

As a thief I would kill to be able to jump from the top of a cliff to escape. At least you still got your spectral walk to do that…

Besides, are you really whining about your survivability nerfs? I mean you were almost tankier than a guardian…I don’t think that was meant to happen. So I would these changes will be good to equalize the OP class (necro) back to fair levels.

Haha, look at this troll.

Tankier than a guardian? Wants even more mobility for thief?
Not the brightest of the bunch, no wonder he plays thief; ehuehueheu one button mash.

And as usual anet messes up.
We’re getting nerfed hard in areas where we don’t even kittening need them.
“Necro is the attrition class. We’re buffing their survivability.”
Yeah, real good plan putting an internal cd on lf gain, making dmg in ds flow over to hp.
We don’t have escapes, invul, teleports, decent access to stability nor are we mobile. Yet our only way to “tank” something is getting nerfed.
And who’s daft idea was it to put Greater Marks on Master tier now, that wasn’t even an issue. Stop pulling random kitten outa your kitten .
And fear wasn’t the problem either, Dhuumfire was, a trait no one ever asked for in the first place. But go ahead, buff warriors/thieves/guardians more, cause most ppl just wanna play a braindead class.

If they would make Axe #2 an aoe skill I wouldn’t mind the horrid #1.

Blind them, then stomp.
Fear pet away if it’s that much of an issue.
Poison them to reduce the healing.
Stomp them again after they hit you with the daze.

Dunno why you have problems with them, they rarely live long enough for the pet res to come up.

Softspoken.2410:

I want Flesh Golem to get over it’s hydrophobia too. :c But I’m pretty sure minions react to the first attack now. (It changed again recently, and given that nobody’s really complained, it’ll likely stay that way.)

If we’re talking PvE dungeons, I have enough time to sacrifice the blood fiend between major fights. If we’re concerned about speed, then I go without for any trash clearing / skipping that we do, and if we’re concerned about speed we’d better be able to do that without my blood fiend out. So generally, I can bring it back up in time for any midbosses we have to clear.

PvP or WvW though, you have a point, since fights are a lot less predictable in those formats. Honestly I think of it as a counterplay to minion masters: even if you don’t kill their minions completely, at least you can leave some lasting damage. Still, I suppose there’s enough disparity there between necromancers and other professions to be a potential issue.

I main necro in tpvp and wvw so that’s where my point comes from. Specially so when you roam and some wussy hides in his tower and shoots of an AC when you run past. My Blood Fiend is half hp by that then lol.
You’re maybe right in dungeons, though they are so squishy minions hardly are effective there since they get insta killed by a lot of mobs.

Bhawb.7408:

AI has been vastly tightened up, it is rarely an issue now that I have noticed.

I notice more often than I want to that my minions don’t attack the target and just stand there being a waste of space, mostly the Flesh Golem. The other are quite ok regarding attacking.

“Keep under attack!!!”
“Is it a viz blob, a golem rush?”

No, it’s attack of the GRUB!

Just another ordinary day in EB at the deso keep, when suddenly we found ourselves under assault. Not of the everyday mindless vizunah blobs but of a far greater danger; the GRUB.

He managed to breakthrough to the outer, but thanks to our valiant effort we slayed the beast before he claimed it as his new home.

P.S.: Extra siege will now be placed in case of another grub assault.

I was thinking of making a post about these exact topics as well.

ALL minions need out of combat regen, their AI is still crap (2 auto attack hits before they attack is not an improvement) and send the Flesh Golem to therapy so he can FINALLY get rid of his water phobia.

Softspoken.2410:

I thought it was pretty obvious why blood fiend / bone minions / flesh wurm didn’t get out-of-combat regeneration. The active skills of those minions sacrifice them. If you want to ‘clean up’ after a fight and start fresh, you can just kill them off the normal way, rather than having to fiddle with the UI via switching utilities in and out.

Try playing Minion necro then. If you leave one fight and go in another last thing you need is a Blood Fiend about to die leaving you with no heal. Saying “kill them and wait” is pretty redundant. In pve, specially dungeons, you don’t have time to just stand still and wait 20 secs till it comes back up. In pvp or wvw even less. Keep in mind that it has a 1 1/2 sec cast time and it’s ment as a sustained heal. The activated heal is just way too low. It should have the out of combat regen, there’s no way you can heal them yourself viably (unlike in gw1 where Minion Master did some actual mastering).

Omfg, enough with these stupid crying topics allready. Everything about necro is now all of a sudden op and other classes need some MAJOR buffing right. sarcasm
We get it, noobs cry about necro being op and anet has magically heard your unending crying calls, necro is gonna get nerfed and will return to be deemed weak and useless by the community as it was before the patch.
Do everyone a favor and stop these useless posts. >_>
On the other hand, maybe the necro community should makes posts likes this in every other class topic aswell “What is OP about this class and nerf plox QQ” see how much of a buzz we can get out of them then.

For months on end Terror builds were used by ppl, som even considered it a gimmick. Now all of a sudden it’s OP and the dmg is getting nerfed.
Remove this ridiculous burning crap trait instead of messing with something that’s been working fine for months.
But a thief that can backstab for over 2/3 of your hp, being able to disengage like crazy and perma stealth is not op right. Instead of ppl whining like little kittenes about necro, learn to play and counter it.
Guess anet wants everyone to either play a 5 signet 100b warrior or a one button spam thief. God forbid ppl actually having to use their brains or face anything short of a challenge. -_-
And they are surprisingly fast with announcing the nerf for necro when some noobs start crying. But when the necro community is screaming for a bug fix (downed state bug, etc) for months on end, we’re ignored. Sense, it makes none!

So tired of these little whiny nabs complaining about necro.
If a necro goes 30/30/10/0/0 or 30/20/10/10/0 they are nothing more than a ragdoll to be pushed around with cause they have no stability. And they don’t accumulate Life Force that fast anymore.

Since we’re all whining:

Thief: Backstab + heartseeker too high dmg, cry cry nerf nerf
Mesmers: Insta killed cause of moa morph + shatter burst, cry cry nerf nerf
Warrior: 100 blades too high dmg, cry cry nerf nerf
Guardian: Bunker builds unkillable, cry cry nerf nerf
Elementalist: Bunker builds unkillable, cry cry nerf nerf
Engineer: Too many conditions available, cry cry nerf nerf
Ranger: Wut?

Learn to play before you cry like a bunch of babies lol

As for the claim made in the first post, if you kill ppl with no amulet and / or no armor you’re blowing smoke out of your rear end. Given that you have atleast 30 in Curses (300condition dmg) Fear would do 430ish dmg, your bleeds around 40 and poison around 80. If you kill ppl with that they must either be afk or extremely low on hp. Not to mention that your armor is low as hell meaning you go down faster than than the quality of crying topics on this forum.

Something like this then?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQIQRBIhdu1IjWle1m2G9eiQqQzge8eb5MqHlrdoD-j0yAYrAhvCNZBgCBRECdCsIasl4ioxqrxUmJVFLI7OSqQAmnAA-w

Gear wise would be zerker weapons, knight armor and cavalier/valkyrie trinkets.
Other than that I have no clue skill & trait wise haha.

I’ve been playing necro since release, it’s the only class in gw2 i fully enjoy playing.

At this moment I’m playing this updated condition build when roaming:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQIQNArdWjMad7tbWb07JAJFPDdkijDm6B8pfOA-jEyAINBRaBEVBg8AmDLiGbFtIasKZioa1NmQAKmDA-w

(Not really sure on the last utility skill, took grasp to pull ppl towards the wall a second time. Used to run corrupt boon, but with the nerf I can’t justify it’s use anymore, focus does it better with lower cd imo.)

Now I wanna mix things up a little bit and make a power set for roaming aswell (not solo roaming, but if you have a build fit for that even better).
I have 0 experience with what to go for as a power necro. I tried going for a a build which uses well of suffering with 3 minions for the Death Nova trait. But that doesn’t work when I blow my minions up myself (poison cloud works, the new dmg part does not) so found it what disappointing.
So I was hoping if seasoned power necros could help me on my way, inlight of the new updates.

Much obliged

Bhawb.7408:

They are more viable, it just doesn’t work with triggered sacrifices. Realistically, I think it would have been OP, Putrid Explosion already can hit from 2.5k-3k, this hits for 1k-1.5k. Putrid Explosion could hit for 3.5k-4.5k each. I think we can agree a 9k damage explosion, on a 16 second CD, regardless of your stats.

I would like to see it work with the other two sacrifices though.

Also, Bone and Shadow Fiend both give 10% LF on death too, pretty nice.

0/20/30/0/20 build with berzerker amulet and putrid explosion is 2k at best. The poison from Death Nova works with triggered sacrifices, so why won’t the dmg?
Mesmers burst for more with mind wreck, and that’s a 10 sec cd?