Guild Wars 2

Zetsumei.4975:

ToT.7018:

If you log into the site and go to the shop the prices will be displayed in pounds.
Deluxe version is £59.99

Hmm but 75 dollars converts to £47.12

you’re right and wrong here. there’s a reason that it costs us more in the UK, but it doesn’t cover the whole amount.

the deluxe edition is $75. assuming a 5.45% sales tax (rough average for the US) we get a price of $71.12 before tax. if we then apply the UK’s 20% Value Added Tax rate, we get a price of $85.34, which when converted into GBP gives us £53.63, lower than the the £60 being charged, but not outrageously so.
that said, if we convert the $85.34 into euros, we get €74.80.

so the prices are mostly due to tax differences.

however, the real question is why are brits overpaying by $10, while other europeans only overpay by $0.20?

Arantheal.7396:

The expansion is priced 50$
The base-game is just a free gift, usable for those who are new and want to get into gw2 without getting struck by a giant paywall (basegame + HoT).
This gift is only available for pre-purchase so far.
After the pre-purchase phase is over, the expansion-price will still be 50$ WITHOUT the core game as free gift.

except…

you can’t buy the core game from Anet currently,

the FAQ says:

Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion?
A: Yes, but Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns includes the Guild Wars 2 core game.

(note that this doesn’t say anything about pre-orders, just HoT including GW2. in fact, this seems to indicate that this has nothing to do with prepurchases.)#

a free gift should be available to everyone,

and an Anet employee said on reddit that “FYI: There won’t be any other HoT editions, just so you know.” not pre-purchase editions, just straight up HoT editions.

and all this info is sitting here, easy for anyone to find and look at. to be honest, I can not understand how so many people can fail to read properly to the same time.

dervix.9126:

smitske.4912:

I think read is an exaggeration all they have been doing is just putting any topic about it in this one to, in the best case notice that we are not happy. In worst not even reading one word (usually they read 5 words and interpret it completely wrong).

They tell you they’re reading this and weighing the options and apparently you’re still indignant for some reason? Have SOME patience, christ almighty. Take off the ‘I Hate Corporations’ shirt, put away the tinfoil hat, and have even a minor amount of faith. This isn’t EA we’re working with here.

while I agree that they’re looking, and I’m happy about that, Arenanet could stand to work on their communication with their customers. people are pretty kittened at the moment, and silence is one of the worst responses they can go with. right now they’re looking at losing the loyalty of quite a few people, and that’s not something you want to do as a business…

since Anet has had the time to change the line about needing the base game, they should easily have had time to update this line:

Q: How much will the expansion cost?
A: We have not announced pricing yet.

I don’t know why some parts of the FAQ are updated and some aren’t, but updating the very-contended question about needing the core game, while not updating the apparently now-known line about the pricing looks awfully suspicious…

I know there’s been a lot of argument over the bundling of GW2 and HoT, but I was wondering – some people say that it’s only a pre-purchase bonus, but I’m not sure if that’s the case.

The FAQ says:

Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion?
A: Yes, but Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns includes the Guild Wars 2 core game.

note it doesn’t say that this is a pre-purchase bonus. it says HoT includes GW2. if so, the argument that HoT is the new base game gains a bit of weight, and the fact that you can’t buy GW2 itself right now doesn’t help dispel this…

if the core game was a pre-purchase bonus, then it’d makes things better, but if they’re not going to be available separately, if the two are a bundle from now on, then can Anet really argue that it’s a freebie and not a bundle?

Darkwolfer.7819:

If you do not like it, just don’t buy it and SHUT UP

well, that’s a nice attitude you’ve got there, but it’s about as constructive as a lit stick of dynamite.

the way that companies and customers get the best relationship – and the best value – form each other is by communicating. after all, you can spend a million dollars on ten ideas and none sell, or you could ask people what they want, spend a fraction of the money, and have it sell well.

feedback is an important source of information to companies. true, much of the feedback on the forums is excessive, confused and contradictory, but knowing what their fanbase thinks is going to help Anet a lot more than not.

if people just don’t buy it, then Anet sees the low sales, and thinks “what went wrong?”
if people don’t buy it, and explain why (preferably with polite, constructive feedback) then Anet can fix the problem.

Channel.9402:

Haven’t seen this level of fanboying since swtor

Speaking of crushing disappointments…

piano man.1672:

Gray.9041:

piano man.1672:

In regards to new players getting a “free” or discounted base game…
Arena Net has had sales for Guild Wars 2 at $10 before (I believe twice), and this really isn’t any different. Arena Net has had sales for GW2 at lower than launch prices before as well. If someone’s argument is that new players get the base game for $10 (the current price for the base game alone is $40) and that it is unfair for current players, then those same players also have to bash Arena Net for the $10 sale weekends, or for any sale they’ve done in the past, and for reducing the base game price from $60 to $40 a long time ago.

this is a fair point, but back during those sale existing players could and did buy extra accounts, to use as alts or give to friends. the problem is not the core game being free with HoT, it’s the core game NOT being free for everyone with HoT.

Yes, even I purchased an extra alt account for myself! It’s awesome

Let me try to clarify (for myself) what you’re trying to say, since I don’t know what you’re referring to as “everyone”.

You’re saying that the problem is that the core game is not free for everyone with Heart of Thorns. The core game comes free with every (edit: prepurchase) edition of Heart of Thorns, so that statement is false.

If you’re saying the problem is that the core game is not free for players who have purchased the game previously, then that statement is true. But people need to understand that it’s essentially a special, bargain deal. I’ve seen many games sell an expansion and have the base game included. Many of the sales on Steam are like that.

Not saying that you have this statement or that it’s your opinion, but I personally don’t think it’s a valid argument that current account holders deserve a free game. I see where people are going with this, but if people are upset that new players get the game for free with the purchase of the expansion, then those same people need to bash Arena Net about every sale they have for Guild Wars 2, whether it be the base game, the expansion in the future, or even gem store sales.

basically, if the sale is to get GW2 and HoT, they should be separate, so that even existing players can use both if they want. they keep saying it’s HoT with an additional extra – not a bundle. if so, the two should be separate – but they’re sold as a single code.

piano man.1672:

In regards to new players getting a “free” or discounted base game…
Arena Net has had sales for Guild Wars 2 at $10 before (I believe twice), and this really isn’t any different. Arena Net has had sales for GW2 at lower than launch prices before as well. If someone’s argument is that new players get the base game for $10 (the current price for the base game alone is $40) and that it is unfair for current players, then those same players also have to bash Arena Net for the $10 sale weekends, or for any sale they’ve done in the past, and for reducing the base game price from $60 to $40 a long time ago.

this is a fair point, but back during those sale existing players could and did buy extra accounts, to use as alts or give to friends. the problem is not the core game being free with HoT, it’s the core game NOT being free for everyone with HoT.

Jrole.1423:

Prices for the US are without tax. Prices for EUR include tax (vat). Germany by example has 19% vat, France about 21%. If you calculate with vat, the prices are nearly the same.

this is correct, but only for Euro-using countries with VAT at around 20%. for the UK, even adjusting for tax, we’re paying about $10 more for the deluxe and ultimate editions, with no apparent reasoning why. (£35/£55/£75 would be way better than £35/£60/£80)

ekarat.1085:

Sales are normal. New customer deals are normal. Giving the base game away with the expansion to new players is just good sense.

What about bundles on steam? Or steam sales? Or any other kind of sale? How about when older games get cheaper? Is that unfair to people who bought it earlier?

This really is perfectly normal and reasonable and commonplace.

Also, I do not believe that they planned to give away the base game all along. I believe they did not yet know what the final deal would be when they had the original sale of the base game for $10.

I bought the core game for $40, just two weeks before it went on sale for $10. I do not feel that I was cheated.

let’s look at the bundles on steam analogy.

let’s say I own Mass Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, and then see a bundle containing all three games for a reasonable price. I buy the bundle, activate Mass Effect 3, and can then pass on the first two to friends, or some such.

what Anet is doing would be the equivelant of me buying the bundle, and only receiving Mass Effect 3. the fact that the core game is a free extra is not the issue – the issue is that the core game is not free to everyone equally, only new players get it older players can’t share it, use it as an alt account, or otherwise benefit from the “bundle”. and that is my complaint.

yeah, it would’ve made the bundle go over a lot better with people.

he’s right you know.

short answer – no

long answer – if you make a new account, that account will get the HoT upgrade. if you apply it to an existing account, you lose the base game copy.

it’s kinda skritt.

Changeling Dash.4782:

Value is subjective. I pay to support the company that provided me with over 3500 hours of enyertainment. I put value on more than just the “objects” we get in the game.

To support this company i donated from time to time. Bought gems without real need. Just to support the game, because i understand “Game can’t run without money income”. I want some respect to an old comunity in exchange.

I want to support Anet too – I’ve bought an alt account before, just because I wanted to pay a little more for all the fun I’ve had, and I would happily have bought HoT at the current price.

but the way they treat new and existing players differently, and the fact that they could easily include little things like character slots – but didn’t makes me hesistate. I want to support Anet, but I can’t bring myself to support the kind of skritt they’ve pulled with this release. I love this company, but I can’t let them think this is okay.

so I will buy HoT, maybe even more alt accounts in the future, but not until they make this right. not until they fix this.

ekarat.1085:

I bought the game for $40, only to have it go on sale for $10 four weeks later, yet I thought it was fair to pay $40 when I did. Such is life

yes, but you could have gotten another copy for $10 at that point too. used it as an alt, given it to a friend. the current deal would be if they put it on sale for $10 only if you didn’t have a main account already.

Note, just ran the maths on tax difference.

assuming that HoT is sold with the average US sales tax of 5.45%, then we can calculate the base price of the game before taxes
Standard: $47.41
Deluxe: $71.12
Ultimate: $94.82
adding the 5.45% brings them up to their listed totals
if we instead use other tax rates, the prices go up. I don’t know the Value Added Tax rates for all euro countries, but it’s somewhere between 15 and 27%.
I’m going to use the UK value, 20%, to do some calculations
with the 20% tax, we get the following values:
Standard: $56
Deluxe: $85
Ultimate: $113
so if we assume an average 20% VAT rate, the european prices are about right.
the british values are a bit off though, but less than it would appear.

I noticed someone mentioning the euro pricing of HoT, and decided to do some maths. turns out Anet is not being fair to foreign players.
some of the numbers:

Package Price in $ Price in £ Price in €
Standard $50 £35($55) €50($50)
Deluxe $75 £60($94) €75($84)
Ultimate $100 £80($125) €100($112)

all converted currencies are rounded down to the nearest Pound or Euro, so the actual numbers are slightly worse.

What the hell Arenanet? I can understand a little discrepancy to make the numbers neat, but us Brits are paying nearly as much for Deluxe as americans are for the Ultimate. even if we ignore all the other issues this pre-purchase scheme brings up, this right here is a major issue, and pretty much unacceptable.

I really, really, hope this is either an error or has a good explanation, ‘cos as much as I love Guild Wars 2, I’ve felt nothing but disappointment since the end of the E3 announcement.

this is worse in the UK

US Prices are $50/$75/$100
UK Prices are £35/£60/£80
for reference, if we convert the british prices into dollars, we get $55/$94/$125
so why is it that I should pay as much for the delux as an american pays for the ultimate? hardly seems fair.

Zypher.7609:

60$ is the normal price for expansions, i do not understand why everyone is kittening about them including the base game? This is what happens when you want expansions, just think we could have had all these updates for free. GG internet cryers.

again, it’s not the inclusion of the base game. in fact, it’s the lack of the inclusion of the base game for existing players that’s one of the main issues.

CureForLiving.5360:

It seems to me that these issues are being combined, or more accurately the: I want to Buy HoT on its own… so I can pay less. Let’s face it if ANet added a new version made it $50 and said: this version doesn’t contain the core game, then players would complain that ‘why does it still cost so much’.

some would, but then some people would be happy to just buy the expansion on its own for full price. I don’t necessarily agree with or understand all these views, I just want to get a tally of them.

Batelle.1680:

And it’s not discrimination against anyone, not anymore than any product eventually going on sale or a deep discount. Which, again, not at all.

I literally get less for my money as an existing player than a new player would get for the same money. how is that not discriminating?

if I could get both, then it wouldn’t be. but I don’t. I only get the Expansion, while a new player gets both.

that would all be cool.

but if you link the expansion to an existing account You Lose the Core Game Copy. that’s it. no alt account, no passing on to a friend. you lose it. you lose it for being an existing customer. and that’s shady as kitten.

Evans.6347:

Anet is pretty good at going mute at such times, which only angers the mob even more.

and they say communication is the key to a solid relationship…

Byter.9051:

Hi guys,
Lance (Guild Wars 2 Support)

Jun 16, 20:19

Hello,

The Standard Edition of the Heart of Thorns Expansion comes with a free Guild Wars 2 Core game for those who do not already own Guild Wars 2. There will not be an available expansion version released that does not include the Core game for a lower price.

Regards,

Lance
Guild Wars 2 Support Team
http://help.guildwars2.com/

this is the core of the issue for me. they are actively discriminating against existing players. why can’t those of use who have the game get another copy, to share, or use as an alt?

Smoothicus.7381:

Guild Wars 2 £130 in 3 years (+ the occaisional Gem purchase)

Compared to

WOW 10 yrs on and off in excess of £1000

I think i can live with the price of HoT

not really a good example. there have been countries with worse records of human rights violations than North Korea, but that doesn’t make what’s going on there okay.

we don’t want Better than —-. we want good.

good point, and well written.

just wondering, since the forums are pretty busy and there’s a lot of posts going round – have there been any responses from any Anet staff, beyond this poorly received response:

John Smith.4610:

InfinitytheSoulWarden.5963:

if you look at the world through the cold cynical eyes of economics

You rang?

and this clarification:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

I’ve heard some stuff’s been said on reddit, but there doesn’t seem to be any easy way to get a handle on what is and isn’t being said by the company.

as angry as I am over the methodology (not the price) of the pre-purchases, it’s also nice to see discussion of the other parts of the announcement. good post and good job.

Deth.4109:

Rylen.2147:

I would gladly pay $50 if the core game was removed from the purchase

the core game is not part of the purchase and you are helping spread misinformation. please sir I implore you to use your reading comprehension skills and ability to understand contextual clues its not quite for people to be parroting something about the game that is simply not true and creating discord within the community.

but… he’s saying he’d pay full price if the core game was removed…

so he’s not saying that the core game is being paid for, so no misinformation there.
at a guess, I’d say – like me – he’s unhappy at how the “extra” core game is part of the purchase, as it’s all one code, whose value changes depending on if you use an existing account or make a new one.

honestly, I would be less mad.

I would still take issue with the lack of character slot, and the pricing is something that could be argued, but if there was no base game bundled in, all players would be treated equally. I would get the same thing for my money as a new player would for theirs, and that is what’s really bugging me.

heck, even if i got the base game and HoT as separate codes i’d be happy.

Vagrant.7206:

Leo.6817:

The fact you think this is all about ‘price’ pretty much suggests you didn’t read anything just skimmed over the topic titles and decided to make a topic.

Well done.

Then why don’t you explain what this is REALLY about?

the fact that upgrading your account literally gives you less than starting a new HoT-upgraded account, despite costing the same.

the fact that the HoT FAQ – and frequent sales – have been causing people to buy the base game for the past few months, causing players to think they would have to buy the base game separately, and then offering the base game free – meaning that many of those who bought the game since HoT was released have been mislead.

the fact that Anet has been altering these FAQs in order to cover this up.

the fact that they claim the standard addition is HoT with a free copy of GW2, not a bundle, but they give you one code which works as a bundle, rather than one code for HoT and one “free” code for GW2.

take your pick, and these are just the things I’ve seen.

Zakard.6743:

you are not buying the game twice……the expension price is 50$ but for someone who dont have the core game aleady they get it for free as a bonus.its a way to attract new comer.this game have no sub fee and have been out for what,2-3 year already?a sub fee game would have cost you like 5-6 time more then this game so far. this expension is a bit more expensive then other game like ff14 or wow because those game have a sub fee….expension is the way to make $ for buy to play game and it still end up dirt cheap compared to most hight quality mmorpg (sub fee)

oh, sweet, then I can buy this, and use the free copy of the base game as an alt.

oh wait. if the base game was an additional item, then it’d come as a separate key which could be passed on or used as an alt. this doesn’t.

selling games by saying they’re needed when they’re not is pretty scummy.

but changing the evidence like this is even worse.

ya done goofed Anet, but if you try and hide it, it’ll only end worse for you. admit the mistake, fix it if you can, but please, please, don’t try and cover it up. it’ll only look worse for you, and that’s not where you want to be right now.

I’ve seen a lot of complaints around, but there seem to be a few main issues that pop up. people complaining about them all in one place seems to muddy things, so I’d like to ask what the main issues are, and maybe try and address them individually.

from what I can see, the main grievances are:

(A)$50/€40/£35 is too much for an expansion (1)
I know there’s a lot of arguments about whether this is true or not, but I just want to know if this is your biggest issue. (also, includes if you think an expansion can cost this much, but that HoT doesn’t have enough to justify it.)

(B)I want to buy Heart of Thorns on it’s own (3)
again, no arguing, just mention if this is what you want to see. may, however, be related to:

©The free addition of GW2 is only free for new players (5)
specifically, that the GW2 is described as a free extra, but is not separate form the expansion, meaning that the “free” extra is only available to new players

(D)I just bought the game for —- and now they’re giving it away free, after (1)
Anet have said that the expansion is $50, and that the base game is therefore free for new players. that said, Anet have shown an interest in helping swap recent orders for HoT bundle pre-orders. (link )

(E)Arenanet stated that the expansion would not be standalone, but the inclusion of the base game contradicts this (2)
Anet has said for a while that GW2 would be required to play HoT, and a number of people doubtlessly bought the game in the lead up to HoT’s release. the bundling of the base game with the expansion means that these people didn’t need to buy when they did, and the fact that you cannot buy the expansion by itself means that all options are – in fact – standalone

(F)The Expansion adds a new class, but does not add a new character slot (2)
arenanet has always added free character slots equal to the number of new classes before, and the break from this tradition is troubling, especially since it may cause people to go for the delux edition over the standard – meaning many people may being paying $25 more just for a character slot

please reply only with which of these is bugging you, and I’ll try and do a tally at sme point.
(feel free to put multiple, or to suggest other things, but don’t argue amongst yourselves. if we can simply get some numbers, we can make threads about each individual problem and argue them there)
(also, sorry if tallys seem to change in unsual ways. it’s not always easy to tell which of these a post is talking about.)
(EDIT: thanks for all the feedback so far, the numbers are starting to add up, which is nice, and it’s nice to be getting a clearer picture of the issues)

the thing is that you Don’t get a spare copy of GW2. if you upgrade an existing account, the free copy disappears. you could have given that spare bioshock to a friend, but we can’t do that here. if we got two codes – one HoT and one GW2, then I would totally agree. but the fact that we don’t is a big issue.

hazenvirus.8154:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

Is the free core game its own separate key?

nope. if you use the upgrade on an existing account, the core game goes poof.

basically, if you already own an account, you pay the same and get less.

NTDK.4897:

http://buy.guildwars2.com/store/gw2/en_US/html/pbPage.heartofthorns?cid=90:5::::Global:40:::

“A game serial code for account creation or upgrade for the Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion and the award-winning Guild Wars 2 core game.”

It is an upgrade if you already have an account. So no, you dont get a new account in this case.

time to stack buffs on my human, ‘cos I’m getting furious.

steve.2945:

its like a conundrum..Buy the expansion..get a free code to give to someone. I’m guessing they’ll have to repeat the process for other people too?

if you use the code to upgrade an existing account, you don’t get a gw2 base account as well. either you upgrade the new account, or you only get the upgrade.

Laraley.7695:

DoAyari.2719:

I believe it’s fair as well. I just really don’t want another account…

Lol, you’re not getting one.

if we got the extra account, I’d almost be happy. upgrade my main to HoT, keep the alt for extras. this would be good.

but we don’t get the core game. only new players do. what makes their money worth more than mine?

Feirlista Xv.1425:

I just think they made a mistake I think the should have worded it like this “Contains the core game for new players” I think people would be less upset if they just thought this through a little. The price point is inline with the industry standard pricing so I don’t have a problem.

It’s not the wording. it’s the fact that new players are being treated better than existing players. if it was a bundle deal, and I could upgrade my main account and use the core game as an alt, I’d be fine, because I’m paying for both and I’m getting both. however, as it is, being an existing player will cost you that second account – so I’m paying for both and I’m getting one.

it’s just not exactly fair, y’know.

I’m interested in finding out, but from what I’ve heard, it’s either a whole new account with HoT or just the HoT upgrade to an existing account. no way of separating the two.

kitten. just posted something like this.

I agree though, good question.

having just watched the announcement, i went to look at the pre-purchase options. however, all three options seem to be GW2, HoT and then various extras based on version.

so I was wondering. for those of us who already have GW2, is there – or will there be – an option to just buy Heart of Thorns?

so, a while back, this kept happening to my character. I was wondering if it ever happened to other theives, and if it has since been fixed (personally, I hope not)

I’ve always been a play how you want kind of guy, but I feel like my theif doesn’t know how daggers work…

I’m just gonna throw in two here. one funny one from a human who just doesn’t care, and one more serious one from a sylvari who’s tired of being told what to do.

cloth can be an issue, and mid-teir mats are a pain too.

on another note, I’m being increasingly limited in space to store all my bloodstone dust. that stuff drops far too frequently, and/or has far too few uses (Mawdrey doesn’t count. that’s a huge investment in time/mats/effort. it’s high-end ascended at least)

Crimson Clouds.4853:

2) Increased skill/weapon flexibility. It would be great for each weapon to have two sets of skills. When it comes down to it, I don’t mind too much if there’s more choice!

this.

thisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthisthis.

doing something like this would be awesome.

also, it would allow condition builders to go full condition, while also allowing non-condition builders to not have to use conditions, which is an issue in and of itself.

X T D.6458:

If you or someone want to run a party full of clerics or condi builds nothing stopping you.

well, I can’t speak for clerics, but that there condition cap sure does put a massive hole in your statement. does someone else on your team do bleeds? yes? well, aren’t you just useless now!

X T D.6458:

I will say that condition builds do need a long overdue buff for pve.

though, to be fair to you, you do recognise this, to some extent.

just throwing in my opinion here, for what it’s worth:

an RNG is a double edged sword. if you’re lucky, it’s great. if you’re consistently unlucky, it’s the sort of thing that causes people to leave.

in my experience, RNGs are used as to simulate the thousands, if not millions, of little bits of information that can’t possibly be implemented in game. it’s a way of making the game world almost as unpredictable as the real world. it’s not a perfect approximation, but it’s the best we’ve got.

the downside to this is that if luck (or randomness) plays too large a part, the plater ends up feeling like their choices, their abilities, don’t matter. fortunately, GW2 doesn’t put the RNG in to combat a whole lot, which is fair enough.

loot, however, is a tricky point to balance. loot is why people play, by and large. it’s the reward for doing the work. it’s the goal, the aim, and it needs a fine balance. make it too easy, and it’s not fulfilling. make it too hard, and it gets soul destroying.

in short, I think the RNG certainly has it’s place, and it does give that thrill of chance, but for those who don’t like to rely on luck, or those whose luck is abominable, some sort of consistent bottom line, like the tokens idea, is a really big help.

(personal gripe: I don’t feel magic find is as important as it should be – I’ve spent a fair amount of time in dry top, and opened a fair share of the chests there. I’ve had a few rares, a recipe book or two, but not much of the difficult stuff (adventurers helms, fossils, etc) a friend of mine – whose magic find is just over half what mine is, and who spent about a day or two in dry top, managed to find 2 fossils, 3 adventurer’s items, and a number of other such things. I realise there is an element of chance, but having spent a considerable time more in the area, and having nearly twice the magic find, it’s a little disheartening to see other people come along, do a fraction of the work, and get the kind of rewards you know you’ll likely never see.)