Guild Wars 2

Linfang.1087:

Putting a space between Dare and Devil prevents Marvel Studios/Disney sending a cease and desist to NCsoft/Arenanet.

Lawyer dodge roll

I think it’s a common enough term that they can’t really claim it wholly.

Advent.6193:

As a P/P Thief, a Gunslinging-noStealth-motherkitten … what do I want?

• I would like my Acrobatics trait tree -as a whole!- to keep proper pace with & be an equivalent form of defense to Shadow Arts
• I would like some attention paid to the fact that our -oh so fun!- Dual Pistols have been crapped on, in an effort to rein in D/P and P/D.
• I want Venoms reworked into something Thieves can love and take pride in.
• I want the exact same for Traps, and Thief skill use underwater. Let’s be honest here, at some point, ANet’s going to make us fight Bubbles … and Thieves are underequipped for that battle.
• I absolutely want Thieves to have a Dev like Robert Gee, who not only has interesting ideas for improving the class, but can actually coordinate with, and -when it’s actually a good idea- can honestly listen to the folks who love the Profession, and simply want to see it perform at its best.

Now, can Thieves acquire some of these (reasonable) gains?

we must gather the dragon balls, throw all our precursors into the mystic forge, pray to the 5 true gods (Kormir’s a false positive) and sacrifice an elder dragon.

mayhaps this would help?

Doam.8305:

Also only 2 class in the entire game can use rifle? So thief better be getting a rifle cause I’d like actually use some of the skins I collect.

I don’t think it’s likely this time round, but I would like to see a rifle Thief in the future.

(actually, Staff/Rifle thief would be a nice – if impossible – combo)

there is no physical copy of the ultimate edition. only the Standard edition is available in a physical copy.

jheryn.8390:

CureForLiving.5360:

jheryn.8390:

GROAN. Who really cares when a class gets revealed? Does it ultimately matter? One class has to be first and one has to be last. Why look for a conspiracy?

Well humans evolved in an environment where pattern recognition was an important part of survival. Those who could identify the best patterns (i.e. Ung ate red berry, Ung now dead. Me no eat red berry) had a better chance of survival. Furthermore when it comes to survival it’s better to err on the side of caution, that is to say it’s better to think there’s a tiger in the bushes when there is not, then to think there’s not a tiger in the bushes when there is.
It’s the same reason we see so many ‘RNG is broken’ threads, because of this habit of seeing patterns where there are none.

LOL I agree with this to a small extent. I have two things that hold me back on believing “The Medium Armor Conspiracy” here in this thread is OK.

1. I am not going to jump every time I walk past a bush. Not a paranoia fan.

2. This is a game, not a red berry.

I never meant to imply that there’s some sort of conspiracy, just that it’d be nice if they’d ordered it a little more evenly.

CureForLiving.5360:

Not Swashbuckler, Corsair. It would be more in-line with present lore.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Corsair

Gray.9041:

not really. it’s not uncommon in history to have a short/long sword combo, with the short sword used to batter down an enemy’s defences while the long sword is used to deliver the finishing blow.

Wasn’t it the other way around? I’d imagine a longer sword makes for better battering. Of course I haven’t killed anyone with a sword so, more than willing to be wrong.

battering down with the long sword would be considerably more exhausting than with the short sword, while a well-placed blow with the long sword would likely do more damage – making it a better killing blow.

CrimsonDX.4821:

Darkness.9732:

Gabriell.4856 is perfectly right.
Medium classes will have simply less testing than the others,
I still don t understand why you don t get it @zalavaaris.

Which classes should have gotten less testing instead?

if I had to pick, honestly, I’d go with the classes who aren’t suffering pretty heavily in their core mechanics right now. Elementalist, Warrior, perhaps Engineer.

Necromancer’s a good example of a class that needed the extra attention, and it’s been working pretty well for them. classes like Thief and Ranger could use the extra attention at this point, and would’ve benefitted from being shown sooner.

Maugetarr.6823:

“Mos Eisley Spaceport The thief forum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.”

-devs

Joking aside, this place can be pretty hostile towards devs. I can understand why they wouldn’t want to spend their spare time here. No one wants to work hard at something just to be yelled at.

I’ve not been around for ages, but for my part, all and any resentment towards the devs is pretty much entirely based around their lack of interaction. the less they talk, the worse it’ll get.

Serious Thought.5394:

A change to RtK for condi could be it hits 3 times? (the blink plus both daggeres, would be an easy animation) 3 hits means 3 instant venom applications? But I always figured the dagger/dagger set for versatility- backstab and auto for heavy damage, hs for execution, db (rtk) for defense while revealed, dancing dagger for a slow+great aoe damage, cnd for stealth+vuln. Should I post the RtK skill in General Discussion and beg anet to do it XD?

the venoms alone aren’t enough for a decent condition build. realistically, Spider is the only good damaging condition venom, and it only has 6 charges on a 30s cooldown. that’s nowhere near enough for a CD build. if anything, applying venoms is the easiest bit. the conditions themselves are weak.

Zalavaaris.5329:

Do you honestly think they will put a LOT of time into the already tested classes after bwe2? … Anything they do to the already tested specs will be some fine tuning but that’s about it.

Dragonhunter, to a lesser extent

Tempest.

they’re going to need to put a fair bit of time into these

Gunsnroll.2657:

Thieves probably get staff yeah, and physical skill.
So no monk theme, but rather a martial art style I guess.

I feel like it’ll be less martial-art and more brawler. between the name and the skills, I’m not getting a martial art vibe. (stances/alternate names would fit martial arts better)

it’s not necessarily better. it has more features (skins, weapons, skills) and you can only use one elite spec at a time. that being said, it won’t necessarily be more powerful.

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not. If you promise people stuff they expect it.

they don’t even need to say “We’re turning _ into _”

they could – at the very least – say “We acknowledge that a fair number of you have raised concerns over ____, and we’ll look into it”

this shows that they’ve listened, even if they can’t give details. as is, it feels like they’re completely ignoring the bulk of the Tempest feedback – a great way to alienate the players.

all other arguments aside – warrior elite spec won’t get more shouts. warrior has shouts.

Maugetarr.6823:

Zero Day.2594:

Jana.6831:

Sandrox.9524:

it wouldnt be staff it would be offhand hammer

Kitten, now I have to decide between Team GS and Team Offhand Hammer

;) Go with team GS, and be part of the master race (Guards, Warriors, and now Reapers).

No! #TeamLandSpear! (A thief can dream, can’t he?)

no new weapons this xpac – though I’ve been wanting land-spear for a while. perhaps next time.

Bloodyx.5946:

the last time a dev said anything in this wasteland: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief?page=21

not anymore

I’m perfectly willing to participate in a civil discussion, as I’m sure much of the thief community is. however, a discussion requires that both sides are talking – we’re doing our part, civilised or otherwise.

and civility is based on respect – a street which goes both ways. if the devs won’t sit down and have a reasonable discussion, then it’s because they either don’t think we deserve it, or they don’t care. either way, they’re earning no respect from me on that front.

so, yes, I’d like a discussion about thief. but I don’t think it’s the players who are stopping this from happening.

Rook takes Knight looks interesting, but also removes a big part of Thief’s Condition build.

Danel.8573:

Whether it’s a Norn or a buffed Sylvari, I think the herald looks a bit too big next to the others (just look at how small the Tempest appears in comparison).

you have to remember he’s sitting there, though whatever he’s sitting on is obscured by the thief. if they lowered him to the floor, he’d be behind the thief. there’s no good answer.

Maugetarr.6823:

+1, or rather a player controlled add.

We’re not Mai Trin…..we’re Horrik

but Horrik’s got defence.

Diovid.9506:

I think the logic is as follows: If the elite spec gives a two-handed weapon, the mechanics change (i.e. Reaper and Dragonhunter). If the elite spec gives an off-hand weapon, it recieves additional mechanics (i.e. Herald, Tempest and Chronomancer).

an interesting theory, but we’ll need more info – 5 classes is still a small sample size

Danel.8573:

Derigar.7810:

What will the next teaser be? I’m dying of excitement! I’m thinking Engineer! Will Forge be the name? Will hammer be the weapon? WILL DRONES BE THE DRONES?

EDIT: Warrior Specialisation, the Crusader has been revealed!

Crusader? Where did you read that? As far as I know, it’s going to be “Berserker”. According to that data-mined trait background at least…

seems unlikely based on the existance of berserker gear, I’d think “Barbarian” is more likely. but we’ll see. (crusader doesn’t look right)

Ox See Sox.3687:

1. Necro/Reaper: Changes completely the way we play as by getting reaper wer not getting just a possible new weapon, but we cant acess the old shourd anymore, which impplies in several trait choices u would or wont make cause of that.

can’t speak for the rest of your post, but aren’t all the reaper shroud abilities affected by the same traits as the normal shroud?

it’s been around on the forums for a fair bit.

also has no place in the thief forum.

Gabriell.4856:

Thief – how can they reveal the thief when it is perma stealth?

Sic ‘Em, Analyze, Light’s Judgement, Gaze of Darkness.

dsslive.8473:

Gray.9041:

dsslive.8473:

The order of the reveals doesn’t really matter, they’ll all still be there come release.

but will they all be there come the next BWE? if not, then they’ll have less testing, and consequently fewer bug fixes or general improvements. on top of this, it means those Medium armour fans get less value out of the betas.

I don’t know depends on when the next beta is. But regardless, it doesn’t matter which aren’t revealed before the next beta, there’d still be some not reveal thus get less player testing . The type of armor that the class wears doesn’t really matter. Most people are fans of classes not the whole armortype, so doesn’t matter which are left out of the next beta (if any) there’d still be people who don’t get to test their favourite class (if they arent revealed by the next beta)

well, it is a little unfair to leave a whole armour class until last, but I’d also say that medium armour might be the armour class needing most attention (thief/ranger ain’t so hot right now), which doesn’t help.

Seabreeze.8437:

Yeah man! That’s more along the lines of what I’m hoping for. Just like you said, acrobatic, deadly, tricky, and even some deception. Honestly, a Monkey King style would be a great source of reference.

I think removing a few of the more stylistic parts of these kinds of films (the long, slow jumps, for example) would leave us with more or less the perfect sort of fighting style for a staff thief.

dsslive.8473:

The order of the reveals doesn’t really matter, they’ll all still be there come release.

but will they all be there come the next BWE? if not, then they’ll have less testing, and consequently fewer bug fixes or general improvements. on top of this, it means those Medium armour fans get less value out of the betas.

Asuaka.1528:

I tried switching attunements last BWE and it is not possible while gliding. So the elementalist glider idea won’t work

it could still work. it wouldn’t be able to change mid-flight, but the glider would vary depending on your attunement when you opened it.

binidj.5734:

I’d like to see outfits (all of them) turned into armour sets.

Amineo.8951:

Mesmer because it’s OP and more versatile than Thief (and you can even use stealth as Mes which makes no sense in my oppinion…).

this, with the addition that mesmer’s stealth is as good as, if not better than, Thieve’s

he’s right you know…

Danel.8573:

I would love sword off-hand, but the reason Thiefs will probably never get this is because of the possible main-hand dagger/off-hand sword combination, since it would look really odd auto-attacking enemies with a small dagger while you drag a sword behind you in your off-hand.

not really. it’s not uncommon in history to have a short/long sword combo, with the short sword used to batter down an enemy’s defences while the long sword is used to deliver the finishing blow.

Kocoff.7582:

I know these are two differents games, but if you get caught (aka Revealed) in MGS or Splinter Cell you are pretty much kittened. In GW2, you are almost instantly dead.

I do not see what kind of damage or positioning mechanism could help me deal with this reveal.
Talking about positioning or damage does not fix the reveal issue, it feels like disposing a body with a trash bag : It’s clumsy, smells bad, and it’s visible, and it will get you arrested.

as mentioned above, some tankiness/defence would help with this. the idea being if we weren’t insta-gibbed on reveal, it’d only impact our damage and strategy – it would be more skill-based – counter play to stealth as an offensive strategy without crippling our defences.

Kocoff.7582:

One of you mentioned being able to take enough hits to bypass the consequences of a reveal. Taking hits is one thing, but what is the point If we are not even allowed to land a backstab?! Please remember that the Herald’s Facet of Darkness/ Gaze of Darkness has 20 seconds CD. No matter how much reveal you can take with a good pool of HP, it is insane to fight them.

reveal – with the above changes – is no more powerful than an invuln, aegis or block. there are many times you won’t be able to pull off a backstab, that’s part of the strategy.

though, Facet of Darkness does feel pretty strong.

I like the idea in a thematic-y, maybe-some-day sort of way, but the last thing we need is more shouts.

Kocoff.7582:

Arewn.2368:

Non-thief player chiming in.
I actually think they should increase the revealed time, and buff other forms of thief survivability to compensate.

No no no. Increase reveal time? 4 seconds is long enough to get us killed. Not only that but our most efficient skills namely, Backstab, require stealth.

Thief and stealth is inherently bounded. Anet cannot expect to add a Reveal skill to half the professions AND expect Thieves to casually cope with this. Something has to be done, the more powerful the reveal, the weaker the Thief. This is a direct correlation.

Maybe they do need to rework on the Stealth mechanism like some of us are suggesting, but anyone who played thief just a few times would understand how deadly Reveal is most combats. For the Mesmer, Invisibility is optional, Trapper Ranger, Invisibility is clearly optional, I am pretty sure Stealth is not optional for the thief.

All those reveal mechanics makes me think Thief Elite spec with Staff will not have any invisibility skills.

I dunno. if we could take hits, then reveal would be less of an issue. the issue with reveal at the moment is that we’re squishy enough that we can die due to a single reveal quite easily. if we got to a point where we could tank hits enough to survive a reveal or two, then it’d have more to do with damage/positioning, and less with health.

have you seen verdant brink? it’s a fairly large flaming reminder that trusting sylvari isn’t exactly the best option if you want to not be on fire and falling out of the sky.

but I’d say the above posts probably nailed the whole difference thing.

Phy.2913:

dom.2748:

Phy.2913:

The majority of players will never have a legendary, so for those players, it doesn’t matter if they add 3 or 30. Their game experience won’t be that different with or without new legendaries. Should the devs focus on content that the majority will see, or will a few more “shiny” skins be the determining factor of quality and completeness of the xpac?

They should absolutely work on the content that they promised. Basically everybody who watched the HoT announcement at PAX thought “Awesome, a new set of legendaries.” Then we find out that its only 3 new legendaries. An absolute disappointment.

I prefer the quality over quantity approach. 1 new legendary is 1 more than I’ll ever have. This thread just shows that people had false expectations about what “set” meant.

quality is subjective. one big reason I’ve not gone after a legendary yet is that none of the relevant weapons appeal to me. if a legendary “set” came out, then that’s at least 1 weapon to interest everyone. however, 3-6 legends can only cover a fraction of the weapon classes available, leaving fans of the other weapon classes left out.

and by grenth I swear they’re gonna add more greatswords.

Volrath.1473:

Heart Seeker not traveling longer distance wile you have the quickness is on the patch notes, it is intended.

they changed it so leaps don’t go further with swiftness or travel less distance when crippled. however, since quickness and slow alter the duration of the skill, with the leap speed being the same, these do alter the distance.

for example, if we would normally leap 300 in the space of 1.5 seconds, and we’re given quickness, we now leap at the same speed for 1 second, only achieving a distance of 200.

when slowed, the result will be the opposite, with leaps taking longer but carrying the user further.

well, you’re not wrong

Sunflowers.1729:

But can you run your elementalist without water, arcane, or cantrips? No, right?

I can. I run arcane right now, but I could live without it.

also, by without water do you mean the traitline or the attunements?

Sunflowers.1729:

Aren’t you missing the fact that the revenant, engi, or ranger has to take a very specific trait line or skill which is in itself a big sacrifice too? Instead of Sic Em you could take signet of stone, or another ability that is less situational. Glint is a control build, what if your build doesn’t use Glint? Surely you aren’t going to use it just to counter one or two classes. And again I compare things to D/P because it’s the best and most common build right now.

Also Withdraw > Hide in Shadows – you already have lots of stealth easily available. Steal from a mesmer clone (which can’t dodge) and you get 2 free stealths. Stealth on steal is nice too, as well as the BP+HS combo which can be done as a last resort.

so, I shouldn’t expect enemies to reveal me, because that requires specific traiting and skills, but I can assume I have lots of stealth, which requires… lots of specific traiting and skills? (both to have the stealth and to have the defensive bonuses from the stealth)

Sunflowers.1729:

Like, everyone always complains about Ele right? Well, they have to take 3 cantrips, water/arcane traits, one specific healing skill, and use a dagger in main hand. That’s a very restrictive set of requirements too, and of course they complain about it. But again it’s not just Thief. Rangers must take wilderness survival grandmaster trait for any condi removal, and Guardians must take shelter. If you’re comparing against the best builds of other classes, you should use the Thief’s best build too.

that’s in order to be at their Peak. I can – and do – run my elementalist with a staff, and no cantrips, and it’s still a good build. it still has a number of defensive options.

similarly, most of my characters I can run with non-peak/non-meta weapons without losing a good chunk of defence. (in most other classes, defence seems to be passive/slot skill-based, not weapon skill-based)

this has been an ongoing topic over in the thief forum, and the short version is:

• rifle thief would be a nice addition to the thief, whose ranged damage isn’t great

• rifle thief would either have to be low damage (and therefore somewhat disappointing) or it’d be broken (some folks want a 1200-range backstab, and that’s just not feasible)

• Current Evidence leans towards the HoT Elite being a Melee-Staff Thief, though nothing is confirmed

• it is generally agreed that a 2-handed weapons would be easier to add than a 1-handed weapon, due to thieve’s combo skill 3, and the balancing issues that would bring.

• whatever people want, espescially at this late point, will likely have little to no bearing on what launches with HoT. I hope that the new spec will get the balancing fixes that we’ve seen on Revenant/Reaper/Chronomancer, but I don’t expect any huge overhauls.

• most importantly, we need to wait and see before making any judgements. far too many people have gotten massively worked up over nothing more that their own assumptions, that it’s important to remember nothing’s confirmed.

Sunflowers.1729:

Our defense is being able to reset the fight at any time you want

using stealth. the more reveals we get, the less true this is. plus, very few stealths last long enough to truly get away (Shadow Refuge is your best bet, and that’s so easy to counter with a few AoEs)

Sunflowers.1729:

keep an enemy permanently blinded, and also a zero-cooldown ranged daze (hi rapid fire).

both reliant (as far as I can tell) on having a very specific build (off-hand pistol). if we need to use a specific weapon to have any defense, there’s something wrong.

Sunflowers.1729:

Withdraw is another dodge and you have 50% vigor up time just from trickery.

and in order to take withdraw you have to sacrafice the ability to use other healing skills – like Hide in Shadows, which is one of the better stealths and more or less the best defence against damaging conditions.

so in order to have the defensive options you mention, we have to be:

• not fighting an Engineer, Ranger or Revenant (or they must lack the skills to reveal us)

• use a specific X/P build (which is a fairly narrow range of options)

• have little to no defence against conditions (which are already a pain to deal with)

• have very less access to stealth (via loss of HiS)

seems like a pretty restrictive set of requirements for the ability to defend on par with some classes passive defence.

Faux.1937:

Death Blossom is fine the way it is.

It is a Spammable evade that adds LOADS of Bleeds, With Stealth and Infiltrator Signet you can stay on your opponent at all times.

If a Player is downed and others are rezing, thats a free multi person cleave.

It funny watching players use DB, but honestly it is well balanced and doesnt need anything.

as others have said, the short window on the evade and the way skills lag can make it a tough evade to actually use properly, but I’ll agree that the cleaving and bleeds are pretty good as is.

I find Guards and Necros to be a pain. I run a condition thief, and so these two classes melt me. Necros take all my damage and dump it right back at me, while guards just use it to buff themselves immensely. (that said, nothing like finding a guard without contemplation of purity).

Elementalists can be a pain too. in large fights, I can get to them and burst them down pretty well, but 1-on-1 all the AoEs mean I spend a lot of time in stealth trying not to get hit. (SR isn’t good for this)

I think thieves have been too reliant on stealth for too long, and if they keep adding counters to stealth, we’re gonna need some other kind of defense.

• we’re far too squishy at a baseline

• blinds are pretty situational (good against reaper, for example. try using it vs Hundred Blades or Rapid Fire, less so)

• our evades are more or less balanced around keeping us alive long enough to get back into stealth, and won’t last vary long by itself.

as it is, death blossom is negligible as an evade – and near impossible to time. some others are better, but not hugely.

if they’re gonna force us into standard combat, give us some standard tankiness.

as a D/D Condi thief, I can’t say I approve of halfing the damage on the bleed (espescially since I though damage was fixed, and only changes with stats/levels/duration), and it does feel a bit like a straight copy of the rev’s 3.

that said, the mobility and evade would be nice, and it’d look awesome.

personally, I’d prefer some kind of meet-in-the middle. something like unrelenting assault without being a carbon copy.

another red post on current changes which is thorough, extremely helpful, and pretty much all what I was hoping to hear.

I don’t know what’s happening, but I love it.

thanks for all the hard work, reaper was in my top two elite specs, and these changes mean there’s no way I’ll be playing any necro but reaper for while after launch.

Yashuoa.9527:

So area of effects that dmg you, dont break stealth?

they don’t reveal you normally, however engineers can trait so that hitting a stealthed enemy reveals said enemy. so Engi AoEs can reveal you.

but they don’t need to, considering how squishy thieves are.