as a thief main, I’m also eager to find this out.
that said, they’re just about to make my condition build hella viable, so I’ve got that going for me, which is nice.
Base game is included free to make it easier for new players to get into, which is a good thing.
yes, you’re right, it is included free.
but not for me. not for anyone who has it already.
plus, as many people have said, “free” in marketing terms is not always free. they might have sold the expansion for $40, or both for $50, claiming that the base game is “free” so that people have to buy the bundle, rather than spending less on just the expansion.
but for me, it’s mostly that a new player can pay $50 and get the core game and expansion. I can pay $50 and just get the expansion.
which means I am literally paying the same amount of money for less.
We have long, long, long since passed the point of ‘discussion and feedback’.
They know they screwed up.
I’d like to think so, but we have no indication of this, the single biggest concession we have is that they’re reading the forums – a far cry from any admission of fault.
Maybe give the Poopocalypse a rest and switch to relatively calm and peaceful “This is why I have yet to purchase the Heart of Thorns expansion, ArenaNet. I would like to, but in good conscience I cannot until these issues are addressed” posts for a while instead?
I guarantee you those’ll go over better.
I can’t speak for everyone, but that’s been half of what I’ve been doing so far, with the other half being discussion and clarification of various topics.
still, I’m all for reducing the more… Passionate posts out there…
and don’t get me wrong – some of the stuff the devs have been throwing out recently is amazing. but if the marketing/management folk at Anet want to keep screwing their fanbase, then the content’s irrelevant to me – it’s on the other side of a purchase – one that the marketing/management side is not selling to me.
I think there’s a few reasons for this:
- firstly, there is no single issue. and as long as all discussion of the problem gets thrown in a single merged thread, people will keep making threads to try and get their point across.
- secondly, Arenanet has yet to do much more than say that they’re reading the posts. other than that, we’ve heard nothing on this topic since it popped up, and the more Anet ignores – or is seen to ignore – the problem, the more noise people feel they’ll have to make to get noticed.
- thirdly, you’ve got a wondefully volatile mix of trolls, overly-passionate people, genuinely concerned players, and the folk who can’t stand being disagreed with.
* the genuinely concerned players are simply trying to state their opinions, and occasionally discuss them, while also trying to make sure these opinions aren’t misrepresented by the others.
* the overly-passionate people also do this, but go to much greater lengths to do so, and are happy to try and derail other people’s threads to do it.
* there are the folk who can’t stand being disagreed with, who can’t just argue their point – they have to be right.
* and the occasional troll, who’s probably doing what they can to obscure or misrepresent the concerned player’s message, antagonise the overly passionate and disagree heavily with everyone.
the occasional message from Anet saying “we realise the some players object to …” would help reassure people that their message is getting across, and would help reduce the amount of posts, but their current silence is only making this particular issue worse.
The OP’s contention of unfairness is invalidated by one simple fact. One can no longer buy a GW2 core account from ANet without buying HoT.
so GW2 isn’t available on it’s own, and neither is HoT.
but we’re not buying HoT and GW2.?
so, it’s an expansion – not a standalone. and it needs the core game to play.
except it’s literally impossible to obtain it in a package which doesn’t function exactly as a standalone would. it needs the core game to play, but can’t be obtained without the core game.
…
What?!
So Anet has said so…. that’s your argument? Well to many consumers it looks quite differently. But hey, no harm, no foul. If the core game is included for free, then give us existing players a free copy of the game.
Okay let me ask you this. Let’s say you bought the original GW2 for $60. Some time later they discounted the game to $40/$20/$10.
I’ve got 2 theories about the discount, let me know which one is more likely:
1). The game was really worth $30, but they made people who paid $60 pay for other people’s games.
2) The game was worth $60, but they sell it at a lower price later to bring in more people, because it makes business sense.
Are you outraged already?
no, i’m not outraged.
because I can also buy another copy of the game at that time, for the same price as
anyone else.
forget changes over time. I’m not angry that a game I bought for £50 is now free.
I’m angry that only certain people can buy it at the current price.
so if they wouldn’t let me buy a (second) copy when it went on sale – a more accurate comparison – then yes, I would be outraged.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Gray.9041
Just to add my two cents to this:
Personally, I don’t have a problem with pre-purchasing. I have faith that Anet will deliver something eventually. I know some people don’t like to do it, and I wouldn’t do it for every game, but for HoT I would.
The price tag of $50: I’m not thrilled with it. I’d pay it, I just want to be sold on it. I need more information to tell me how much content I’m getting for my money.
The fact that there is no expansion-only option: I would be ok with this if it weren’t for…
The fact that existing players get nothing, and do not benefit from the “free” base game: This is the part that doesn’t sit well for me, and what stopped me from pre-purchasing already.
When GW Factions and Nightfall came out, they added character slots if you had an existing account. Not as many character slots as if you started a second account, but enough that you could make the new classes. This was a Good Thing.
When EotN came out, it was priced lower than the other campaigns. It did not add any character slots (if I remember correctly), but it also did not add any classes. The lowered price was also a Good Thing.
When Valve released the Orange Box, it included Half Life 2, HL2 Episode 1, HL2 Episode 2, Team Fortress 2, and Portal. At the time HL2 and HL2 Ep1 had already been released. If you added an Orange Box key to an account that already owned those games, you got a giftable copy you could send to a friend. This was a Good Thing.
What I’m getting at is that forcing existing account holders to buy a version of HoT, that includes a “free base game” that we will not be able to use, nor get any benefit from is a Bad Thing.
I’m not oblivious to the fact that you need to make money. You’re not making games for the sole purpose of our enjoyment. You have goals to hit and investors to impress. If you gave away a character slot with every existing account HoT you sold, you’d sell a lot less gems to people looking to add to their account. Existing players will feel they “need” that extra slot. You’d be hard pressed to find a person that doesn’t at least want to TRY the new class you’ve hyped us up about. At the same time, you have a market of existing players that are unhappy with the current options being offered to them.
Here is my suggestion: Make it so that existing players that add HoT to their account get something. This could be a character slot (I hold this is as the Best-Case Scenario, but I’m not holding my breath), it could be a giftable copy of the base game with which we could bring in new players, or (and here’s my As-Realistic-As-I-Can-Be suggestion) 400-600 gems. 400-600 gems would cover 1/2-3/4 of the price of a new character slot for the players that still need one. 400-600 gems would also be a nice bonus to any player that didn’t want another character slot. 400-600 gems would get players to buy more gems, since you’d still need more to cover the full cost of a character slot. The leftover gems would then be there, ready to spend on the next nice thing to come down the pipeline.
There are a lot of options out there, and I’m eagerly awaiting some kind of word from your team on what course of action you decide to take. If you aren’t going to change your pricing/rewards structure, you’re going to need to give a well-thought explanation on why you decided on what you did.
lengthy, but more or less sums up my problem with Anet right now.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Gray.9041
You get a totally worthless title. Which they apparently feel is worth paying for a product you have no idea when you will actually recieve.
According to this site, the Heart of Thorns release date is set for 12/31: http://www.gamesdeal.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-addon-pc.html
this is from a site selling HoT keys.
and since Anet and NCSoft haven’t authorised anyone to do that, that means this site is incredibly shady.
but hey, scammers are know to be accurate where release dates are concerned.
(seems about as legit as kormir’s ascension…)
Guys this stink you’ve made over essentially nothing (its £5 you’re screaming about and new players getting something free) could really damage the company now… Stop it.
Guild Wars has been an excellent franchise for 10 years, don’t drag it through the mud because you ‘feel’ you’re owed something more (again this something more is TINY). Its not worth the damage.
How about you point your little finger at Anet? They’re the ones not giving existing customers value for money.They had 3 days to adress it, and have remained silent.
This is a situation of their making. Loyalty is earned, not given.
If you could give an example of a Guild Wars product in the last 10 years that hasn’t been worth the box price I’ll stop. Since you won’t be able to THAT earned loyalty – good products consistantly (not some extra fluff for launch).
hey, I trust my friends and family. but when one starts waving a gun in my face (which we’ll use as a loose analogy for the way HoT is being dealt with), that trust is suddenly very much in question.
isn’t the rifle thief only speculation?
Okay after reading this i found out we in europe have to pay more then americans do?
Normal pack costs $50 wich is € 44.07 and we have to pay € 44.99 wich is $ 51.08 ( $1.08 more Its nothing to say about that is normal)
The deluxe version costs $75 wich is € 66.06 we have to pay € 74.99 wich is $ 85.14 ( $ 10.14 more its huge!!)
The ultimate version costs $100 wich is € 88.08 we have to pay € 99.99 wich is $ 113.53 ( $ 13.53 more, its huge)(I’ve converted this with the status for 20-6-2015 at 00.22 GMT+01)
tax differences. US sales tax averages at about 5.45% european taxes are between 15-27% more or less accounts for the difference.
But why almost no difference on the $ 50 ?
I ran the numbers a while back, and I think between the tax differences and the currency conversion, it works out about the same.
Okay after reading this i found out we in europe have to pay more then americans do?
Normal pack costs $50 wich is € 44.07 and we have to pay € 44.99 wich is $ 51.08 ( $1.08 more Its nothing to say about that is normal)
The deluxe version costs $75 wich is € 66.06 we have to pay € 74.99 wich is $ 85.14 ( $ 10.14 more its huge!!)
The ultimate version costs $100 wich is € 88.08 we have to pay € 99.99 wich is $ 113.53 ( $ 13.53 more, its huge)(I’ve converted this with the status for 20-6-2015 at 00.22 GMT+01)
tax differences. US sales tax averages at about 5.45% european taxes are between 15-27% more or less accounts for the difference.
getting back to the topic (Media Coverage etc)
http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-players-rightly-upset-by-heart-of-thorns-pre-purchase-scheme/
larger media outlets are noticing, and they’re not taking Anet’s side…
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Gray.9041
Question for people who pre-ordered cheapest version (35£, 50$, 45€)
They say you will be able to upgrade the version. Right now that upgrade is not on my gemstore upgrade tab. However that might be because i don’t have Heart Of Thorns code yet. So my question to you guys, after you purchased it, does suddenly (next to the orignal game upgrade to deluxe option) appear an option to upgrade HoT into Deluxe? I would very puch appreciate it, if someone can answer this.
I’ve not pre-purchased, so I don’t know for sure, but I believe the option to upgrade to deluxe via gems is going to be available at some point, but isn’t yet.
is this relevant to the HoT subsection? I agree that this is both kittening awesome and important, but it’s not HoT specific. doesn’t this belong in the base GW2 discussion?
Some of us are taking the stand on the principle that they duped people into buying the core edition, were not honest about it (in fact they tried to hide it), some appreciation should be should to those of us who made this expansion possible with our wallets, and basically just don’t be scummy about it. Be up front, listen to us, and for the love of god, give us some form of an explanation.
It’s pretty bad when reviews are asking why they haven’t explained them selves yet.
I read on Reddit that refunds are being offered for at least 2 months, just saying.
refunds, yes, but in doing so the user loses any bought gems, any heroic edition upgrades, all progression, and quite possibly the ability to link to a GW1 account.
it’s true that people can get a refund, but:
- that’s a legal requirement
- the user loses progression/gems
- this is only an issue because Anet didn’t change their FAQ sooner.
I’m pretty happy with, and mean no ill will towards, pretty much everyone involved with the actual creation and development of both GW2 and HoT, and what news we have on HoT is giving me a good feeling.
the people responsible for the marketing, pricing, and package setting, however, I have no sympathy for. I don’t take issue with them personally, but professionally they need to get their skritt together.
and also, to a lesser extent, whoever decided when to reveal new features. between them and the marketing team, we should either have had way more info by now or the pre-purchases should have been delayed. either way, there’s been a screw up, and it should be fixed.
tl;dr: the people who make the stuff we want to buy – thank you. the people who try to sell it to us – get your skritt in order.
Well, in Britain it’s because of VAT which is 20%:
£35 * 0.2 = £7
£60 * 0.2 = £12
£80 * 0.2 = £16£35 – £7 = £28
£60 – £12 = £48
£80 – £16 = £64£28 in USD = $44.56
£48 in USD = $76.38
£64 in USD = $101.82As you can see, before the 20% VAT the prices are a lot closer to the US prices.
But America also has VAT and so does South Africa the transaction allready costs me more because my currency is worth less and there is ekstra transaction cost because I’m paying with rand, now that I’m in Belgium I have to pay the USA VAT (I’m allmost sure it is inclueded into the $99.99 I now also have to pay an ekstra 20% of Belgium VAT on that even though South Africa only has 14% VAT. Doesn’t make sense.
from what I’ve heard, the american equivalent of VAT – sales tax – is paid by the buyer. so an american might buy the ultimate edition and end up paying $105.45.
Well, in Britain it’s because of VAT which is 20%:
£35 * 0.2 = £7
£60 * 0.2 = £12
£80 * 0.2 = £16£35 – £7 = £28
£60 – £12 = £48
£80 – £16 = £64£28 in USD = $44.56
£48 in USD = $76.38
£64 in USD = $101.82As you can see, before the 20% VAT the prices are a lot closer to the US prices.
this is correct in theory, but the maths is a little off.
multiplying by 0.2 give you 20% of the final price, but the tax would be 20% of the price before tax. as such, times by 5/6 to get the right numbers.
UK Deluxe and Ultimate then turn out to be a little overpriced, but not enough to worry over.
wording aside, some sort of statement would go a long way to calming people down and fixing the situation.
a lot of the issues that many people have right now concern things that would have cost nothing, realistically. the addition of a few digital items, the splitting of the core game and expansion codes, replying to the kitten-kitten ed players, all and any of these would have left large numbers of players happy to pay the current price for the expansion.
sometimes it’s not about the money it’s about sending a message being respectful and valuing the players.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Gray.9041
I was a keen pre-purchaser right up until pre-purchase was announced and then I wasn’t.
What happen? I hesitated…..
…I can very much relate to this. At first I was doubting what pakkage (Deluxe or Ultimate) I would get. At least until someone told me about the core game being included inside HoT. I would encourage Anet to sell a package including the both games at a discount price. But not if it’s the only option.
I’ve played GW2 since release and am still very happy with my purchase. But i’m not willing to buy HoT with a core game that I can’t use. If I can get a bonus character slot instead of the (extra) core game I would have bought the game yesterday.
Right now, i’m not sure what to do. I’ll just keep waiting for Anet to respond
Seconding this. I was pretty happy to go for the expansion, but they way Anet is acting has me thinking again.
It’s not that I don’t want to buy HoT, but I can’t bring myself to while they’re acting this way…
I’d love to get my facts right.
and when Anet provide some, I’ll make sure to keep them in mind.
for now, we know almost nothing about how many maps we’re getting, so you can’t argue we’re getting to few or too many. you can argue we_might_ have too few or too many, but we still don’t know either way.
Fine. Now if only people wouldn’t state assumptions as fact.
Both side are doing it: it’s tiresome & currently I’m against Anet.
I never said they didn’t.
Also there isn’t two sides.Okay I may have jump on the wagon there; Sorry for that.
But there is still is no proof how the biomes works with the map except a Anet employee word.
I think they mean two sides to the argument? I don’t think anyone was mentioning the biomes…
well, I see what you’re saying, but the idea of not bothering with AP because you’ll never be top tier sounds a little strange to me. sure, you might never be top tier, but that’s not such a bad thing. AP has two main functions in game:
- shows how much experience you have
- dropping some sweet loot every 500 points.
for the experience thing, no-one’s ever looking for the highest possible. it’s usually just looking for players over 5000AP, and it’s used to determine if a player’s likely to have enough experience with the game.
for the loot, you just keep going as far as you can.
and on both fronts, a reset would do more harm than good. I’ve often seen 4000-5000AP described as a threshold for assumed competency, and there’s nothing to stop newer players achieving this. in fact, a reset would simply make it harder to kitten a player’s experience.
So after listening to what others have to say, here is the new opinion. Most people say that 45 euro (50$ or w/e) is the price for HoT only and that the core game is a bonus. That either makes them angry that the game has no value anymore or happy that it is cheap for new players to join. So from that I can conclude that the core game is just a bonus FOR NOW and when HoT is available new players might have to buy both. Even if this is true they fail to see the other problem. If HoT on its own is 45 euro – that price is way too high for an expansion if the content is not as much as the core game. When most older players bought GW2 it was about 50 euro and now the expansion is 45. For something that is just a bit short from the same price I would expect something just a bit short from the same amount of content. I know they worked hard for this but if the expansion and core game do not have the same amount of content, they cannot be worth the same price. We don’t know yet, so I suggest we don’t buy yet. Hold off your purchase until ANet releases more information and/or change a few things. The way I see it this pre-purchase is for people who don’t have the core game, NOT for people who do. So if you have GW2 DON’T buy HoT now on pre-purchase. Wait! You have to wait anyway. It’s not out yet, so we don’t know anything.
not a badly argued case, but not particularly relevant to this thread. this is more the kind of thing for the HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged thread. this thread is about the character slot.
I’d love to get my facts right.
and when Anet provide some, I’ll make sure to keep them in mind.
for now, we know almost nothing about how many maps we’re getting, so you can’t argue we’re getting to few or too many. you can argue we_might_ have too few or too many, but we still don’t know either way.
Fine. Now if only people wouldn’t state assumptions as fact.
Both side are doing it: it’s tiresome & currently I’m against Anet.
I think the first thing to do is to clean up the debate. find out what the issues are, and discuss them individually, in a reasonable manner.
They will likely release a statement either today or next week
it had better be soon. the longer they leave this, the harder it’ll be to fix. this whole debacle is a good example of where Anet’s preference to keep quiet is backfiring like a cooked mortar shell.
Firstly we need to establish if this is a problem.
Players are complaining on the forums, but has this been reflected in the prepurchase numbers? if the prepurchase is looking good (and who is or isn’t prepurchasing) then there’s no problem except some unhappy players, and there’s always unhappy players.It appears to me that a B2P is far more dependent on a happy playerbase than a sub one, since many have said that they ‘supported’ he game through gem purchases.
If these people are annoyed enough to stop purchasing gems in the future (regardless of whether they feel obligated to buy HoT or not) it may affect the company’s bottom line.
Grumbling players in sufficient large amount can also influence public perception of the game and make people hesitant to take the plunge.
Of course I have no figures to back this up, since I do not work for Anet.
^ this, more or less. I’ve bought extra copies of GW2 before, because I like supporting Anet, and I’ve always told my friends that it’s a great game (even got some playing), but with the things stand, I can’t bring myself to do anything that might make Anet think I support this move. I’m not pre-purchasing, not buying gems, and I’ve seen a few people who have lost interest in the game because of they way Anet’s been treating the players. if loyal players get screwed over, there’s no reason to be loyal.
I think the biggest damage Anet’ll take over this is a hit to their reputation, and like condition damage, that’ll hit hardest over time.
um okay.
I don’t really see any reason to do this, and I’m not sure what it would achieve.
I’d love to get my facts right.
and when Anet provide some, I’ll make sure to keep them in mind.
for now, we know almost nothing about how many maps we’re getting, so you can’t argue we’re getting to few or too many. you can argue we_might_ have too few or too many, but we still don’t know either way.
Speaking of updates did anyone notice this?
“Q: How can I participate in a beta weekend event?
A: Everyone who pre-purchases Heart of Thorns will be able to participate in the beta weekend events! If you haven’t pre-purchased yet, you can upgrade your account through the Black Lion Trading Company in-game or by applying a serial code from buy.guildwars2.com or one of our retail partners."
I haven’t been online to check, has anyone noticed if its there?
it is, but it’s with money, not gems, if that’s what you’re asking.
snip
I’d imagine they need to meet and discuss it internally before releasing a public announcement. Just rushing out a statement without all the staff being on the same page would not go well
true, but having someone on the forums making sure they understand what we’re saying can’t hurt. just someone who can say “you’re saying …,right” so that we can clear up any misunderstandings before anet makes somebig announcement based on them.
also, there’s a pretty big difference between saying you’re listening and kicking around on the forums, acknowledging things here and there, asking a question or two. having someone visibly here would be more reassuring.
They will likely release a statement either today or next week
it had better be soon. the longer they leave this, the harder it’ll be to fix. this whole debacle is a good example of where Anet’s preference to keep quiet is backfiring like a cooked mortar shell.
they don’t communicate. they tell us things they don’t speak to us there is a massive difference between talking at someone and talking to them. any company can make an announcement, but what we need from Anet – now more than ever – is a conversation. speaking, reasoning, explaining. that’s how we overcome misunderstandings and reach compromises.
If they asked the community if they’d rather pay 1 dollar for the expansion or 20 dollars, what would the community say? This proposition is simply idiotic. Everyone is going to want to pay less. Always.
Blizzard didn’t host some vote about whether or not they could increase the price of Warlords of Draenor compared to their other expansions from $40.00 to $50.00. Square Enix didn’t seek the approval of their community for their price tag of Heavensward. They named their price. If you want to play, you have to pay; and they set the rules. Not you.
Where was the community outrage for those games? Where were the headlines? Oh right. It didn’t matter. Their communities were happy to see the next chapter of their game inching closer though! It’s an expansion, and everyone expects to pay money for it. For some reason though, paying money for an expansion is a new source of outrage for the GW2 trolls to latch on to!
“They should have asked us if we wanted to pay money for the expansion.” Why ask? Everyone knows the answer: People want everything for free. Next question?
I don’t mean they should discuss every little detail – especially about product pricing. I more meant since the announcement. the forums have been blowing up, and the silence from Anet has not helped.
snipity snip
Yeah, sorry. I just find it easier to address multiple points if they’re separated like that >.<
don’t apologise. it’s a much better way to lay out multiple points, and it’ll actually make future posts easier to read. thanks for showing me how it’s done.
(edited by Gray.9041)
Which brings me back to my first point.
Given the backlash this has received, would you:
a) blindly jump in with a solution that could anger more players?
b) take the time to gather feedback to come up with a solution that is less likely to anger more players?I would c):
- take the time to gather feedback, while also maintaining at least a minimal amount of dialogue with the players.
- not promising anything until it’s been worked out, but assuring that issues are being considered,
1) What dialogue? Outside of ‘we are discussing these issues’ there’s not much they can say in terms of what they are discussing internally for the reason in point 2.
2) Anet has done this in the past – not promise anything – and yet people have always brought up that they haven’t delivered what they promised, even when they’ve added on the blog posts that things are subject to change. Also, Gaile has stated that they’re passing issues onto the team. Just look at some of the responses and you’ll see why it’s a mostly pointless exercise.You have a point with the other two though.
1)
- there’s quite a lot of ambiguity surrounding HoT,
for example, some people say the inclusion of the core game is a pre-purchase bonus, while others say it’s a permanent thing (anet sources aren’t clear, but seem to imply the latter - sometimes just acknowledging that you’ve read or understood something can be a huge help.
for example, I can see that there are a number of issues being raised on the forums right now, it would be nice to know that the Anet teams sees this and is considering the issues individually. I don’t want to think they’re treating two or three separate issues as one, which would lead to more confusion, more mistakes, and less trust.
for my part, I’d like to see Gaile – or someone else – talking to the players, not promising fixes, but clarifying what the issues are. passing on the issues is fine, but I think it’d be nice to make sure that the issues we’re trying to raise are the ones being passed on to the team.
(also, nice reformatting of my original post. I think I’ll go for that style in future)
(edited by Gray.9041)
Y’all have never started/had a business, I assume.
Obviously the FAQ wasn’t clear, hence the complete outcry by the community and some of the insane arguments that are thrown around. They changed their FAQ to alleviate some of the confusion.
But hey, Anet is Illuminati and is taking over the world. /s
they also failed to update other sections of their FAQ at the same time. this was not a general update, this was a very specific change.
(for example, if they are so adamant that HoT is base $50, why does the FAQ still say that they haven’t announced a pricing plan for HoT?)
I think one of the big issues with this is that all complaints about the pre-purchase are being stuffed into one merged thread. the truth is, there are several groups, all with different opinions, and there are a significant number of people for whom the free core game – either its inclusion or the way it’s being handled – is a major issue.
what we need to do is separate the main complaints, and then discuss them individually, but any attempts to do so will probably just be merged before any real progress is made…
Gaile did address players about it saying they’re looking at feedback. It just doesn’t seem to be the answer players are looking for though.
They can’t really run into this with a half-kittened plan; look where it’s landed them now.
where is this exactly?
Thats not an answer. its them saying we are reading, not doing anything about it
Which brings me back to my first point.
Given the backlash this has received, would you:
a) blindly jump in with a solution that could anger more players?
b) take the time to gather feedback to come up with a solution that is less likely to anger more players?
I would c) take the time to gather feedback, while also maintaining at least a minimal amount of dialogue with the players. not promising anything until it’s been worked out, but assuring that issues are being considered, clearing up some of the ambiguities that are pushing this thing into overdrive, and doing my best to separate all these discussions into their individual issues. (right now there are several distinct complaints, but they’re all thrown into the same few threads, so we have contradictory messages going up all over.)
huh. in which case my understanding of american taxation appears to be flawed.
that said, I still object to the variance in price differences between deluxe and ultimate. in every other currency the price difference between standard and deluxe is the same as the price difference between deluxe and standard (this is more me being picky though.)
HoT Pre-Purchase Questions and Feedback [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Gray.9041
as far as I’m aware, there won’t be a boxed version at all.
No one ever said “vet players don’t get anything”.
Do you even read these forums? That’s one of the biggest complaints going around. “new players got the core for free and us vets didn’t get anything” “where is my free character slot I spent a gazillion dollars on the gem store and deserve a freebie too”
TBH I didn’t even make it past that statement so not sure what the rest of you post even said..
I can’t speak for everyone, but for me it’s not that I deserve a freebie for spending money on gems or such. it’s that Anet are supposedly offering the core game as an added extra – a side part, separate from the expansion. if I pay as much as a new player, it’d be nice if I could also get that core game. (for use as an alt account, or to give to a friend)
it more or less comes down to the bonus not being available to everyone equally – and that feels kinda crappy.
so, you’re saying that if you bought HoT, you’d be paying 52.27 for the standard version?
TL;DR. The wall of text can’t counter the false advertising claim or the fact that Anet have become cheapskates compared to their former selves, GW1 expansions having 2 character slots and way more content for example.
Like I said to others. Please share with us your data that you gathered from when you went into the future to experience the entire expansion since you seem to actually know that it doesn’t have “way more content”
it’s true that we don’t know for sure that the expansion has less content, but we can’t realistically judge that at all. another issue with the way the pre-purchase is being handled is that they are offering the ability to pay for the full expansion, and have yet to show us what that is. there may be almost no content. there may be more content than the base game. but they could at least give us an idea…
if we remove the 5.45% sales tax that the US has,
This is wrong.
Sales tax varies by state in the US. Some states don’t have one. My own state has one higher than 5.45%
But in most cases, we’re not actually charged any taxes for buying digital goods online. Some websites like amazon will charge the sales tax according to the buyer’s state though.
Also, our prices NEVER NEVER NEVER include the sales tax, we always have to add it on ourselves. So if we DID pay sales tax on HoT by buying it in a store, it would cost around $55-$60 for standard with tax.
as with europe, the US is a group of states with varying taxes. and like europe, I took the average. as of January this year, the average sales tax across all states is 5.45%
Since both europe and america are sold to on the whole, and not state-by-state, I assume that the cost in tax to Anet is roughly the average.
I did the maths on this a while ago, and I’ll repeat it here:
okay, base price in US is $50/$75/$100
if we remove the 5.45% sales tax that the US has, we get a base price of:
$47.41/$71.12/$94.83
we then add european taxes. (Note: VAT – the european equivalent of Sales tax – varies across europe. I assume Anet factors this in, and averages it out. I’m going for a rough average of 20% (europe range is 15-27%, with 20% being the UK level.))
so we multiply these values by 1.2 (adding 20% tax)
$56.89/$85.34/$113.79
we can then convert this into the relevant currencies – £ and €
we get
£35.83/£53.75/£71.67
and
€50.03/€75.05/€100.07
the euro conversion is pretty much spot on – the main discrepency here comes from the tax differences, and you can’t really blame Anet there.
the british prices,however, are another story. while the standard edition comes out right, the deluxe and ultimate editions are a little overpriced. in fact, the price progression is even different.
in US:
Standard = $50
Deluxe = $50 + $25
Ultimate = $50 + $25 + $25
in EU:
Standard = €50
Deluxe = €50 + €25
Ultimate = €50 + €25 + €25
in both these cases, the price difference between Standard and Deluxe and Deluxe and Ultimate is the same.
in the UK, however, we have
Standard = £35
Deluxe = £35 + £25
Ultimate = £35 + £25 + £20
realistically, in terms of conversion and price increases, a much better pricing for the UK would be £35/£55/£75, since this would increase by £20 at each step, and more closely reflect the prices paid by other players.
(I’m not asking anyone to change the pricing, or saying that this is unfair. it is entirely possible that there are other factors that I don’t know about. I’m just throwing out the maths I’ve been able to do,make your own conclusions)
(EDIT: I just want to point out that while I think the UK pricing could be more in line with the other prices, I don’t think the difference is hugely significant. despite any issues I have with the way the pre-purchases are being handled, I still love this game and have no objections to the british prices)
(edited by Gray.9041)
IMO this has a lot to do with the lack of communication between developer and playerbase.
This garbage again? Are you able to cover your eyes with your fingers plugged into your ears, or are you just living under a rock? There’s been nothing but an overwhelming avalanche communication and updates coming from ArenaNet. You guys just didn’t like what you heard.
they don’t communicate. they tell us things they don’t speak to us there is a massive difference between talking at someone and talking to them. any company can make an announcement, but what we need from Anet – now more than ever – is a conversation. speaking, reasoning, explaining. that’s how we overcome misunderstandings and reach compromises.
MagicalMike’s video seems alright, seems to be reasonable enough, even if we don’t agree of everything.
@Arantheal:
I’ve double checked all gaile’s recent posts on reddit and here, and at no point does she say that the core game won’t be available with HoT after release. she states that the game is a free bonus several times, and claims that the price of the expansion is $50, but nowhere does she say that the expansion will be available without the core game post-release. in fact, there’s nothing anywhere to suggest that HoT will ever be available without the core game.