Guild Wars 2

If the PvP tourney was an issue, they could always host those matches on a separate server using the current pre-spec system. Not a big concern, there.

I think you’re all looking at the small picture. Between accessories, weapons, and armor, we have 12-13 simultaneous slots for items that each use the same possible stat sets. Yes, that is mechanically an example of overkill.

It doesn’t add to diversity at all, since 3 or 4 would be enough for us to mix up our desired attribute recipe. What it does, though, is feed the economy, and create material goals and a gold sink. These are important, but could be handled without bloating the hero panel with superfluous equipment slots.

Eolirin.1830:

The fact that minions can draw aggro doesn’t make a lick of difference if the mobs won’t clump for melee cleave or aoe cc, as long as they’re only drawing aggro after the players do. It can potentially become beneficial if they’re drawing away otherwise unavoidable damage because you can’t CC your targets and kill them before the CC wears off anymore. Minions, pets, spirits, and turrets drawing aggro is only bad because stacking and the current meta exists the way it does.

I mostly agree with this. Saying it’s the only reason these things don’t work is a stretch, but it is a big factor. I’m also guessing it’s very difficult to fix, sadly.

Everyone knows the elite legend will be Rurik. Weapons are sword and shield, but all his weapon and utility skills are the same: you just taunt yourself to charge at the enemy and flail ineffectively like a muppet. The unique sword skin is Sohothin with a cork on the end of it so he doesn’t hurt himself. When you inevitably die while in Legendary Prince Stance, your corpse rises up to defend the enemy against your allies.

Totally OP, and I can’t wait to use it.

I expect the rise of the Dragonhunters to be a notable part of the story, which is why I’m pretty okay with the name. Seeing guardians turn into and function as hunters is something I look forward to seeing demonstrated and explained in the lore.

It should all fit into context well enough once we have actually started playing HoT and seen them woven into the tale.

A few years ago, players reacted the same way to engineers and guns. Tyria isn’t a static world. It changes. The important part is that new pieces fit the slice of the story that they’re in, and I’m sure the Dragonhunter will do that just fine.

I’ve imagined stuff like this quite a few times myself. Neat ideas, but too late. Honestly, I’ve just started dumping it all in a doc labeled “GW3.”

DeceiverX.8361:

There will ALWAYS be an optimal way of doing things.

The idea that it’s all about optimizing is a fallacy. It’s a big factor, but not the only one. The factor that’s actually a problem is that players who choose other stat sets and playstyles often don’t feel rewarded for doing so. That includes both literal in-game rewards such as loot, and the emotional reward of being able to put your skills to good use.

Players who choose reactive, supportive, or condition builds don’t have many opportunities to shine. Defense and support just aren’t needed most of the time, and conditions rarely get a chance to do their work. Zerkers are so efficient at cutting everything down quickly, that there’s arguably nothing for other players to do but try to squeeze in a meager amount of damage before the enemy disappears. Trying to tag mobs in a world event when you’re surrounded by zerkers often feels like being an angler fish competing against a school of piranhas. You either become a piranha or go hungry.

Running through PvE with blocks, extra heals, or a condition like confusion is infuriating enough when enemies aren’t aggressive enough for these abilities to ever feel needed or rewarding. Zerkers are simply a stronger adaptation in the context of a game world that allows glass canons to go unshattered, and their floor-wiping capabilities put them in direct competition with other players in a supposedly cooperative game mode. Saying they’re balanced can only be true if you’re speaking strictly in theoretical ideals. In the actual practice of the game, (the meta), they are considered optimal for a reason, and that is the definition of unbalanced.

Not to mention that cutting everything down so quickly can make the game feel easy and unrewarding for even some zerkers. The goal should be to make the game more interesting for everyone, and having a one-sided meta is just…boring. It might be hard to prevent, but we should still try.

Dinks.2478:

So everybody would pick Brawn, Agility, and Ferocity. Giving them super zerker? It doesn’t work. People will always pick the one stat set that is king. Going healing or anything else in this game just isn’t profitable. It may be “viable” by definition, but it certainly isn’t advisable.

Meta is Meta because it is the best option, its not an arbitrary decision. No matter what anet does a Meta will emerge.

Not if the effects of the 5 attributes are re-balanced against each other.

The crit ratio and ferocity multiplier in GW2 currently get much higher than they should be if you want other play styles to feel rewarding. It’s a very obvious problem with an equally obvious solution, which would no doubt be the source of endless tears and flames if it were ever implemented. Bringing crits down to a reasonable level would go a long way toward leveling the playing field.

And for crimeny’s sake, increase the attack speed on PvE mobs so it feels more like fighting monsters and less like pushing through weeds. PLEASE.

Dawnbreaker.6215:

Best way to go is force all gear sets to have 3 different stats.

Offensive stats: Power, precision, ferocity
Defensive stats: Toughness, Vitality, Healing power
Supportive stats: Boon duration, Condition duration, Condition damage

Each set would have one of each defensive, defensive and supportive stats. That’s a total 27 possible combinations, which is a bit more than what we currently have.

Power sets would then most likely become meta, but even then you would have 9 possible choices, which is a whole lot more than only 1.

Calling Condi Dmg a support stat feels like a stretch to me. Unfortunately, the game is simply not balanced evenly between offensive and other attributes. Even within those categories, some attributes will always be more desirable.

Personally, I would rather see the stats themselves overhauled. It would be better to have 5 equally good attributes than 9 attributes with a clear hierarchy between them.

Here’s what I would do:

• Brawn (combines Power & Toughness)
• Agility (Precision, plus Endurance recovery rate)
• Concentration (Condi Dur & Boon Dur)
• Ferocity (Crit Dmg & Condi Dmg)
• Vitality (Health Pool & Healing Power)

This gives us 3 mixed attributes focused on play styles, and 2 that are strictly offensive or defensive. Every attribute is strong and desirable, and choosing between them actually means something.

This is kinda why I would love to eventually have a 10th profession for advanced players – built around the primary mechanic of swapping between armor sets instead of weapons.

You would have to maintain an armor set of each class, and swapping between them with the F1-3 skills would affect your all your skills a little bit like an attunement or legend swap, (probably just replacing their secondary instead of primary effects). Don light armor to spread some aoe pain, switch to medium to kite or chase, and pop into heavy when you need to be in the thick of it.

But that’s just a dream of mine: changing the character’s look and feel more drastically with the context of the action, via the mighty and untapped power of the costume change!

To make up for other skills being easy to dodge, maybe have one of the auto-attacks yo-yo? It would appear right on the target and do damage, then slowly travel back toward you and damage other foes in its path. Then when you fire off another one, the first changes direction back toward the target to get a second hit.

Sariel V.7024:

When the PS was refactored, all the rewards in the existing chapters were changed, nearly always into something a little more powerful but with a generic skin. Will Chapter 7 rewards be revamped the same way?

Definitely hoping this was looked at. I am so tired of leveling up a character and getting a dozen sets of ugly clogs

Umm, you don’t play PvE do you? Because monsters don’t have utilities. (Sorry!)

Beyond that issue, I would like the idea of thief manipulations, except the general purpose of manip skills, (“evade attacks and mislead opponents”), is already covered by deceptions.

Glamours could stand out more, with a shadowy/smoky vibe to them. My other choice would be arcane skills. Instead of changing with attunement, these utilities would have different effects when you’re in stealth, (and wouldn’t reveal you).

I could have fun with a mainhand torch. I’m picturing circus-style firebreathing, toxic smoke, and a melee attack that explodes on impact into an aoe.

The exact functionality would depend on the new steal mechanic and utilities. Probably more focus on smoke and explosions than on fire and burning, overall.

The Euro-centric perception of mythology in this thread is incredibly depressing. There are quite a lot of legends with knight-like figures using bows or traps and mystical energy.

Yes, the name takes a little getting used to in the context of existing lore. I, for one, am going to get used to it and get on with enjoying the game. I invite you join me.

Ehh, I kinda forgot about the other weapons. (Oops.) Shadow thief would not do much of anything interesting when you’re in melee range. Not at all. Bugger.

Building in a Shadow Return option after stealing might be enough, although a change to the stolen items table could be more interesting in the long run.

flow.6043:

My suggestion: 3 stacks of stability for 3 seconds on Tainted Shackles.
I think with Infusing Terror we’re long past the “necro shouldn’t have too much stability” debate, especially if you can get Foot in the Grave in addition to that.
And Tainted Shackles is a long cooldown skill anyway. Plus, it would give some nice synnergy with the skill itself if the stability covered the time when torment is applied until the immobilized hits in the end.
Imo this would not be the biggest buff, but just enough to make pure core specs not feel bad about themselves for not picking the Reaper.

If you want it to stand against reaper, I’m not sure giving it the same advantages is the best way to go. I would rather see a buff to whatever already separates them.

For example, DS is ranged. If the main projectile were flipped to increase damage with distance instead of proximity, and the teleport changed from a closer to an escape, it would better synergize with fear while keeping you out of melee to help extend shroud time. These easy changes would give it stronger contrast against the melee RS, letting them each contribute to different play styles.

Clones being a mesmer mechanic are why I suggested the shadow thief as a very temporary unit with a unique purpose. It only briefly attacks the enemy to get its attention, then runs off toward their master with the goods they just stole. Their primary function would be to deliver the stolen item, with affecting units they pass through as secondary, and attacking as a distant tertiary.

It shouldn’t step on the toes of illusions or Thieve’s Guild if done right. The idea is that enemies know it’s delivering something valuable to you and try to stop it; this not only takes some heat of you for a few seconds, but it also encourages enemies to follow it, helping to pull them into a line for piercing rifle attacks.

Rifle skills could be fun, but they would depend a lot on the overall theme, especially the new utility type. For example, here are a couple ideas for rifle if we get elixirs, with a “chemicals” theme.

• Phosphorus shot: the casing explodes in a blast finisher when it touches any combo field, (the bullet core continues on to target as a triggered projectile finisher). If the bullet isn’t ignited en route, it does more base damage.
• Acid shot that applies vulnerability. Extra vulnerability if they lose a boon for any reason in the next few seconds.

That would take away a lot of functional and beloved skills and builds.

It’s one of those things that could only have been an option when creating the class at the start. Now we’re at the point where it would only take things away and destroy the ele as we know it, and that’s not a way to make players happy.

My only personal whine about shortbow is the lack of reliable stealth – not because I feel I need it at range, but because I’m traited for venoms and therefore stuck with unusable minor traits

If the new weapon really is rifle, I could almost see the F1 calling up a “shadow thief” to steal from the target, instead of you doing it directly. This would give a brief close-range distraction to the enemy while you stay at range.

Its behavior would have to be different from necro or mesmer summons. So maybe it could poof in and steal, staying on the target only until a few seconds pass or you hit F1 again. Then the shadow thief tries to run toward you and give you the item (plus some buffs) before disappearing.

Traits that trigger on stealing would proc when the shadow thief appears on the target. New traits could give you boons if the shadow thief successfully returns to you, increase its speed, and make it inflict conditions when running through enemies on its voyage home.

(One thing to be careful about: using this in stealth would let enemies follow the shadow thief to your location.)

messiah.1908:

if its rifle than long range so probably survivel from ranger or engi exilir

Exilirs? Hmm. My hylek-friended venom thief is intrigued.

Honestly, a different set of items to steal would be enough. Something less random?

On the very slim chance that thief goes more magical, (dark, shadowy arts, obviously), you could get items that let you mess with that particular target again. Maybe steal “mementos” to serve as magical foci. Take a lock of hair, a coin from their pocket, or such. Gain an advantage against that foe while you have their memento in hand. Then use it later to steal their health, speed, recharge etc.

I’m leaning toward F-skill combos, with a second skill available in the slot once you’re in a given attunement. (e.g. Hit F1 while in fire to do blahblah.)

Erasmus.1624:

Xaylin.1860:

I think the most important thing they have to do is changing the AA for the classic DS.

You’ll be happy to know that the necro rework does just that.

Xaylin.1860:

I think Life Blast should explode on impact like Ele Staff Fire AA.

Only if it’s the same skill copy pasted over. Life Blast deals too much damage to deserve being a projectile which triggers an AoE on impact. It would also have to be an arcing projectile that doesn’t pierce so as to make sure that we don’t see a necro fire into a line of people and kill everything as its AoE damage casually procs 3 times. Might as well just make it a green Fireball. That’s not a terrible idea honestly. Fireball is a cleaving attack after all.

Instead of exploding on hit, I would rather it start out as something like an explosion. It is called a blast, after all. Running with the way it already does more damage to close enemies, I would like to see a fast, explosive (high damage) attack to a single target in front of the necro, with the green smoky remnants of the explosion then drifting forward through other enemies as a (low damage) projectile – like the smoke from a firecracker drifting on a strong wind.

I like how the reaper line has three distinct themes for major traits, with the minor traits sort of working with all of them.

The three for blood magic would obviously be wells, movement, and siphoning. I also like the regen and condition removal. Hmm…

I’ll tackle the major well traits first.

• Ritual of Life: replace the auto-well with “Your wells grant regeneration to allies below the health threshold; the duration of this regeneration is doubled on downed allies.” This gives it some use for standing allies, on top of having an active effect for res-ing.
• Transfusion: add the function “Life transfer now counts as a well skill.”
• Vampiric Rituals: this is fine. No change needed.

Now for movement.

• Mark of Evasion: add the function “This skill recharges faster when you have a condition on you.”
• Quickening Thirst: change it to be faster when below the health threshold, instead of above.
• Deathly Invigoration: add the function “and recover some of your endurance.”

And then we have life siphoning.

• Bloodthirst: Make half of the siphon power increase baseline. Change effect to “You siphon 10% more health, and can siphon even if the enemy evades or blocks, or you are in Death Shroud.”
• Vampiric Precision: This is fine.
• Vampiric Rituals: Yep, this trait does double duty, and still doesn’t need to be changed.

That leaves one odd duck in the major league.

• Unholy Martyr: Great in group play, useless in solo. Change life force generation to “whenever you gain a condition” to broaden it out.

And as for the minors…

• Blood Is Life: new trait, as I described in OP. Combines Full of Life and Blood to Power, and staggers effect out as health drops.
• Order of the Vampire: also as in OP, but toned down. “Siphon health when you attack. Minions siphon and redirect the health to you. While you have regeneration, your allies also siphon health with their attacks.”
• Revival: “When you exit Death Shroud, lose a condition and gain regeneration. The regeneration lasts longer for each remaining condition on you.”

(Admittedly, that third one is mostly for the pun, since vigor isn’t very necromantic.. It could just as well grant a different boon, or boost siphoning.)

The devs are allegedly looking to make this line more team-supportive. Ideas?

Here’s mine: replace all three minor traits.

Blood Is Life: “When your health drops below each threshold, you gain additional Healing Power and brief regeneration. (100HPwr@High%, 200HPwr@Mid%, 300HPwr@Low%)”

Order of the Vampire: “You and nearby allies siphon health on attacking. A small fraction of health siphoned by allies (and all health siphoned by minions) is redirected to you.”

Vigor Mortis: “When you exit Death Shroud while below the health threshold (VeryLow%), you and nearby allies gain regeneration. Regeneration effects you apply also grant brief vigor.”

The trick is finding an elegant solution that keeps it simultaneously Unique, Intuitive, Effective, and Fun. If a game mechanic was a character, those would be their four attributes we want to keep near maximum at all times. We need to increase the weaker attributes without cutting down the stronger ones a single notch.

• Unique: We’re sitting pretty good in this regard. Chronomancer gets something vaguely similar, but the feel is different.
• Intuitive: The F1 mechanic of popping in an out of shroud, and the function of the lifeforce pool are crystal clear. That’s great, and I’d rather not muck it up. The “weapon” skills within deathshroud, however, can be difficult to grok in context of each other and the player’s other abilities – that’s some room for improvement.
• Effective: The necro’s other defenses are all balanced against the lifeforce pool, and it doesn’t seem to add up to 100%. From playing and watching people play, it largely seems that DS is under utilized. Many players spend a lot of time sitting at full lifeforce, choosing to take health damage instead of dropping into death shroud. Increasing the desirability and ultimate uptime of the shroud state might almost be enough for most players.
• Fun: What’s fun differs for every player. Generally, we tell the game what we think is fun through our build, but DS currently interrupts your play style instead of adding to it.

In short, we need skills that work with the player’s build, to make lifeforce worth spending, thus increasing defense and the strength of the necro as a whole.

I will stand by part of my previously posted idea, but tweak the rest. Three of the skills available in DS need to be pulled directly from the spec lines the player selects. These skills need to have maximum synergy with the abilities and effects on their respective spec lines. For the other skills, I recommend basing them on the weapon(s) the player has equipped. The auto-attack should be inspired by the main hand weapon, and the 2 skill should be inspired by the off hand, (or both based on a two-handed weapon like staff). Skills 3-5 would be the spec-line skills.

I think this best retains the current feel of distinction between DS and non-DS modes, while making sure that all of the skills fit your play style and are worth using. Some of the things I’ve seen suggested as baseline improvements, (I call them “complications”), can be included in specific DS skills instead.

Need stability, healing, mobility, or a fearsplosion? If you’ve built yourself around similar abilities, it’ll probably be on your bar, just waiting for you to drop into DS and trigger it.

Here’s a trait I’d like:
“Winter’s Hunger: You and nearby allies siphon health when attacking chilled enemies.”

Erasmus.1624:

Use it like an actual resource.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/A-good-necromancer/first#post5026965

Sounds interesting, but TLDR. Do you have a summary?

(I’ve posted this idea before, but threads keep dying…sigh.)

Here’s an idea for a complete overhaul. The goal is to make deathshroud feed into your playstyle instead of interrupting it.

TLDR: Move DS skills to F2-F4. Keep weapon and utility bars in DS. Available DS skills are based on your three spec/trait lines.

Deathshroud needs to be central to the profession, regardless of build – like an ele’s attunements or a mesmer’s shatters – but that isn’t the case right now.

• Move the DS attack skills to F2-F4. These skills will still only be usable when you are in DS, but they will be in addition to your full normal skill bar.
• Your three DS skills will come from your chosen spec lines. Each line donates a DS skill tailor fit to that line’s playstyle.
• Existing DS skills would be carried over as well as possible, but possibly with some splits and mergers of functionality, and a lot of reworking and balancing. They should synergize as much as possible with their spec lines’ traits and related abilities.

For example, putting Soul Reaping in your second specialization slot could give you a reworked Life Transfer on F3, that counts as a spectral skill and has a high chance to crit on enemies with fear. Traits for Life Transfer could make it heal allies and inflict vulnerability, on top of any spectral skill traits you have.

Move DS skills to F2-F4. Keep weapon and utility bars in DS. Available DS skills should be based on your three spec/trait lines.

Good article. It got me thinking.

I honestly believe the key to fixing necro lies in altering the core deathshroud mechanic, (and of course, fixing weak skills). Deathshroud needs to be central to the profession, regardless of build – like an ele’s attunements or a mesmer’s shatters – but that just isn’t the case right now.

The first thing to look at is why players might avoid going into deathshroud, aside from conserving lifeforce. Personally, I almost never use it because my normal skill bar just suits me better. The article mentions keeping utilities, but I don’t think that’s going far enough.

Move the deathshroud attack skills to F2-F4. These skills will still only be usable when you are in deathshroud, but they will be in addition to your full normal skill bar. These three deathshroud skills will come from your spec lines. Each spec line’s adept minor trait unlocks a deathshroud skill tailor fit to that line’s playstyle, along with one or two major traits you can choose to improve it.

This would be a full overhaul requiring heavy balance work, but the idea is to make lifeforce into something that you actually want to use, something that feeds into your playstyle instead of interrupting it.

I would rather use banners than shouts or spirits, regardless of how tempting the banshee and rituatlist archetypes sound.

You still get the aoe buffs, except you can pick it up and move it, and get additional skills while you’re holding it. It’s easy enough to theme in – especially with greatsword – as a sort of Dread Lord spec.

Those are mostly differences in how the professions utilize the base mechanics. They still have more similarities than differences, I would say.

I have my fingers crossed for scepter & symbols with a shadow magic theme. (Even though it wouldn’t work for either of my thieves.)

But who knows? Maybe it’ll be something crazy like turrets o_O

When you boil it down, there are some profession-specific skill types that could be merged into others – if the devs wanted to do so.

For example: marks and traps, symbols and wells, tricks and physical skills, and so on.

What do you think? Should similar/identical categories be merged, left as they are, or tweaked to accentuate differences?

I’m not sure it’s the best way to go, but I can almost imagine Lich becoming a summon instead of a transform. Aside from that, I hope the devs look at the data on what skill types it’s most often used alongside. That’s where you have your best opportunity for synergy.

Plague form as a well? Yes, please! Having it synergize with my current skillbar and traits would be fantastic.

Shiki.7148:

Bhawb.7408:

Besides the AA I don’t think she’s had anything new added, the bone wall stuff she’s used for a long time afaik.

Even then, i wish we’d get that. Especially in a circular shape around you : pop it and cut of enemies from their allies, forcing them into a 1v1 (1v necro + minions) and preventing them from escaping. Bones disappear after a certain time but also can be destroyed. The dream…

Charnel mastery? Interesting idea, but I"m not sure what skill category they could bring to represent it. Banners of bone and skin with aoe bone-generating skills when held? Conjuring bone weapons for similar effect?

On another note – and this would be better for a second or third elite spec, after HoT – necro venoms could have fun effects, especially if they can be spread to allies by default, (maybe as a chain skill). Imagine coating your weapons with potent stuff like Ichor, Ectoplasm, Tainted Blood, Tears of Mourning, Necrotic Bile, and Distilled Terror.

I cannot agree with “Arbiter,” sorry.

Arbitration is the use of an impartial third party to settle a dispute. Arbiters act on behalf of the disputing parties, selected and brought in by them deliberately to find a fair solution to their disagreement.

It isn’t just another word for judge. Judges carry the weight of the entirety of written law and the capability to issue broad punishments, from fines to jail or prison time to (in some jurisdicitons) death . Arbiters only have power from the contract signed by the disputing parties who hired them – their power pretty much stops at the transfer of resources or signing of further agreements between the parties.

Arbitration is more akin to mediation than it is to a trial and judgment. Less Judge Dredd, more Judge Judy.

I like it, but…the thing is, regardless of what they are classified as, guardian won’t have enough to fill a set. They seem to be avoiding giving professions less than four a skill type, so we would have to wait until guarding got more “kits” to fill the set.

They could do banners without doing something like urns, which are definitely not banners.

A banner of stretched skin on a bone framework, with spectral runes glowing.

I hope most that necros get a spiritual successor to orders skills, but it’s hard to say whether shouts or banners would be best for that.

Alternately, what about some ritualist/engi flavor in the form of urns as kits, or spirits as turrets? That’s how those things started out anyway.

Slayer
Keeper
Overseer
Babysitter

Bane

Not Dragonbane, or anything so complicated. Just Bane. Guardians guard. Banes threaten. If you lay a finger on a Bane’s allies, they will destroy that finger, and resolve to hunt you down with courage and inflict their due justice.

I would be fine with them having their own type. Unlocking would be another issue, since we don’t know of any racial reward tracks. Assuming they’re not removed, maybe they’ll just be free for new characters.

My honest ideal would be for brand new characters to not have a profession at all.

Spend the first few levels with just racial skills, as you go through your racial story. Then you choose a profession around level 10, and go through a profession story arc, (which I feel is a dreadful omission from the current game). Then your order, and so on.

It would even be neat to have a “personal” elite spec line, with traits unlocked according the various choices you make. It wouldn’t have to be strong, merely full of flavor, just like racial skills.

But I’m just dreaming…

I wouldn’t be surprised if ascended gear got blanked out on day one, so you get to re-select the attributes. They’ve done something similar before, and I’m assuming they will use the same method here.

Not very high on my list of worries, honestly.

It should be easy. The game knows which skill challenges you have and haven’t completed. Our unlocks will likely be reset to zero, but we’ll be given all the hero points for a level 80 character that has completed all the skill challenges we’ve completed. If you’ve done at least a few, you should have enough points for all the core stuff as soon as you log in. Well-mapped characters should even be able unlock everything, including the full elite spec, on day one.

You will probably have to go through and spend your new hero points to re-unlock everything the first time you log into a character after this gets patched in, but I seriously doubt you will be missing much, if anything. In fact, if you’re like me and have alts that have only unlocked a handful of traits – you will probably suddenly have enough hero points to buy most, if not all of what you’ve been missing under the current system.

I expect most characters will actually have more available to them after the change than they do currently. We are much more likely to gain than to lose, here.

On-fall and on-stun effects could be merged, I guess. It’s all about reacting to a big, heavy blow – whether it comes from the ground, or a hammer.