Guild Wars 2

Why not both? It would cost far less resources to make a class limit, but yes balancing needs to continue.

Other ideas

King Doric: This one is iffy, he didn’t actually make an appearance in the games, only the lore. I don’t have many specific skill ideas for him, but since he was involved in the division of magic into 5 bloodstones which were sealed with his blood, maybe he could channel the power of a stone in each utility.

Corrupted Kuunavang: Kind of similar to Glint tbh but an interesting one nonetheless. Would be mostly focused on direct damage rather than Glint’s party support. Too lazy to translate her GW1 skills into GW2 language, but they are Corrupted Breath, Corrupted Dragon Scales, Corrupted Dragon Spores, Dark Chain Lightning, and Renewing Corruption. Profession mechanic would be giving very close allies (like within 300 range) Celestial skills which are based on the profession. Should not be the same a Thief’s stolen skills.

Zhu Hanuku: Could make use of cool GW1 mesmer skills like Psychic Instability and Panic, as well as its signature skill Jade Fury.

Urgoz or Kanaxai: Like Zhu Hanuku don’t have many unique skills of their own to draw from unfortunately, but have lore that could serve as fodder.

Palawa Joko: Pretty interesting in that he was a big part of Nightfall’s history, but also plays a role in the present-day campaign. Might not work since he’s supposedly a part of GW2 lore. Could be replaced by the Master of Whispers since they’re both Necromancers, though skills would need to be reworked. Uses “Order” skills that have party range in the GW1 sense rather than just affecting nearby allies, like Facets, and require health sacrifice. Don’t have passive upkeep, only have effect for a few seconds, perhaps 5 seconds just like in GW1.

1. Heal skill is Order of Unholy Vigor, gives quickness and small health regain on skill usage.
2. Order of Pain (stack 12 might, maybe more)
3. Order of Apostasy (boon removal)
4. Order of the Vampire (lifesteal)
5. Elite: Dark Fury (Each hit gives 1 sec of cooldown reduction)

Profession mechanic would be Taste of Undeath, is a life transfer from Joko/the Rev to an ally. This should not be party range otherwise Rev would just be a glorified battery.

Varesh Ossa: Was a direct servant of Abaddon like D’Alessio was of the Mursaat, and like him gained powers as a servant. Strength of this Legend is snaring and weakening individuals for party focus.

1. Earth Vortex: does damage and knocks down those using non-AA skills with an activation time. Should have a small AoE effect around the Rev, large AoE would be OP, but could also be single-target.
2. Enchantment Collapse: Whenever target loses a boon, remove 2 more boons.
3. Call of Sacrifice: Basically is just causing damage while target is above a certain threshold.
4. Frost Vortex: Similar to Earth Vortex, but chills instead of CCs. Chill from this has a stronger effect, maybe 80%.
5. Elite: Enemies Must Die: For 10 seconds, whenever an enemy is hit by Rev, it receives the “Enemies Must Die” effect. This causes any of Rev’s party members to do 15% extra damage to the target. The effect can only be on one enemy at a time, and will affect the most recently hit enemy.

Profession Mechanic: Words of Madness: taken straight from Abaddon, causes area immobilize for 4 seconds, AoE is 600.

There’s been a number of speculation threads that have been glossing over this topic: who will be the Legend? Revs channel a significant person/entity from GW1 lore, so Anet will eventually pick one. Here are my ideas for Legends:

Saul D’Alessio: He was the first human chosen by the Mursaat, and actually learned Spectral Agony, meaning that he fits the “mortal with extra powers model” that Jalis and Ventari fit into. Also is more interesting in terms of lore, as the Mursaat were a neutral force rather than a bad one, previous Legends fall into the Pro-Abbadon, Pro-Destroyer camp, or the Anti-Abbadon, Anti-Destroyer camp. The Mursaat didn’t try to destroy them, simply contain them, and opposed the “Good” Prophecies heroes while still not being agents of the Destroyers. Skills:

1. Heal skill is Soul Battery (AoE life steal). Alternative names could be “Chosen Sacrifice” or “Bloodstone Sacrifice” since that’s how the Soul Battery got charged.
2. Ether Seal (increase cooldowns, effect not a condition)
3. Jade Armor (stunbreak and reflect)
4. Jade Bow (replaces weapon and weapon skills with longbow, which has condition-applying attacks)
5. Elite is Signet of the Unseen (targeted area knockdown and burning, maybe passive effect would be increased condition duration)

Profession mechanic would be Spectral Agony (damage, slow, torment). This would be a good alternative to Mallyx for a more ranged condi option.

Wolfric.9380:

What i would love is an integrated speech com. You can activate it with a button and it will be available for the team till the map is closed. The listen part should be open per default but can be turned off in the options.

Excellent idea. I wish Anet would put in the resources to do it though.

xXLuggXx.4018:

Last but definitely not least If we get a ele-legend I would want to see not “just” glyphs but Firestorms, frosty hail, Lightnig bolts and earthquakes:D

That’s just copying what ele already does. What makes Rev interesting is that it takes inspiration from the abilities of either supernatural beingss (revived Shiro, Glint, and Mallyx) or mortals with exceptional abilities (King Jalis and Ventari). I for one would like a legend following the route of uniquity, rather than simply copying an existing profession’s theme. I think taking a character from one of GW1’s elite areas, like they did with Mallyx is a good idea. Additionally the Margonites and Mursaat (the latter of which has already been mentioned in another thread) offer some options. Since Glint is essentially a force of good, it would make more sense for the next legend to balance her out. I’d suggest the Lich from Prophecies but he’s already represented by Necros’ Lich Form.

It doesn’t. When people go to character select when they’re already in a match, they should get an error message when they try to load their DH telling them that their party has reached the max limit on that class, assuming they already have 2. People should still be able to switch though, preventing switches just reduces the already limited strategic aspect of Conquest.

I agree with the 2 class limit. 1 class isn’t terrible either, but you’d be hard put to convince me that 2 of a particular class (like DH) is OP. It’s really not. 4-5? Yes, they can hold points like no other.

TheGrimm.5624:

I run with chat on, but sorry OP but will have to disagree on forcing people to do so.

Perfectly reasonable, I envisioned this change along with others, like legit punishments for toxicity. They should go hand-in-hand, chat blocking isn’t the only issue here. But chat is usually useful AND annoying in the same matches, rather than one or the other as some implied. Usually there will be some insults like calling teammates idiots, as well as constructive things like “2 inc far” in the same match. Cyberzombie did a good job summing up the useful things that can be communicated through chat. Nobody is forcing people to look, if they really don’t want to see it then they can just avert their eyes.

Just going to link my preexisting thread about Thief utilities in case anybody wants to think about other skills too, since vanilla skills were mentioned. I still like the idea of changing the functionality to something like GW1’s Scorpion Wire, but that would really only be useful for sPvP.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Huskyboy.1053:

But it’s inherently imbalanced to give that power only to a very small number of people, that’s the opposite of balance.

8 of the 9 professions have access to launch. If they aren’t choosing to build to use it, well they’re choosing something they value more.

Totally disingenuous response. Firstly not all launch skills move bodies horizontally, which is what makes launch more useful than other types of CC. Secondly, AoE horizontal launch is built-into power rev, making it OP. At the very least all professions should have a single-target horizontal launch skill, although I don’t think the game would be made better by everyone having AoE horizontal launch, it would make node fights messier.

Saiyan.1704:

I’m not arguing that DH doesn’t need a change. The class needs to be more skillful for sure but you’re asking for a direct nerf when it needs a mechanical change. That’s me looking at the class critically. If you want that in more detail, create a thread in the DH forums and i’ll reply.

A poor argument is warranting F1’s prowess by bringing up a bad, unviable build like Condi Guard… when we’re talking about Power DH. Makes no sense.

If you think Rev can’t self sustain longer than DH… gosh, don’t have anything else to say.

Condi guard is not unviable, but I doubt you’ll be convinced of that. Anyways, if you could clear up the difference between “direct nerf” and “mechanical change” then I’ll go ahead and make that thread..

Tbh I’m about to go on strike with you. Outrageous.

mattemahticker.6895:

I can only agree with SneakyTouchy, and one of the most annoying things in sPvP is, if somebody tries to give you orders, that clearly has no clue.
worst thing that happened to me was somebody pinging me wildly and drawing arrows as to “attack that player on that point” oblivious to the fact that i was out of cds and low on life. After I decided to not feed the opponent 5 points insults were imminent.
I’m not a really good player, when it comes to mechanics, but it is a game and nobody puts one player above the others in a team, but too many players think their superior understanding puts them above their teammates – hence the tone of their messages.

That’s pretty reasonable-sounding, although from your own admission you’re not at the point where you have nothing to learn from others. So you’d probably benefit from reading team chat at times, other times yeah it’s idiots, just like irl. Nobody in this thread has ever claimed otherwise. Point is that taking a condescending attitude into the game, and especially doing something extreme like turning off team chat or all chat, just hurts your team. That’s not cool. If you don’t want to play with a team, don’t play a team game. Just ask people in the lobby to duel you if you want 1v1s, I do it all the time and someone will always take you up on the offer.

Suddenly? No. But you can at least talk to your team, I do and sometimes it helps. Chat isn’t “for venting” but obviously some use it for that. Individuals sometimes get tunnel vision during a node fight, reading someone else’s suggestions about where to go can help while they’re respawning. And during a match you can always type after:

1. Winning a node fight
2. Dying

Both are reasonable options, I’m glad I had the opportunity to help you realize that. Bless up.

veslarius.8425:

Okay just forget i said anything about the pip loss bug, what I was saying is that if someone rage quits or dcs i would like to be able to leave the match without dishonor instead of wasting my time

Agreed. There was actually a post about a forfeit button/option, and that if every (present) member of the team voted yes, that the match would end. Seems like a reasonable option to me.

Saiyan.1704:

Huskyboy.1053:

the discussion is about comparing F1 abilities, should I also talk about how DH have the biggest trap radius, can trait Daze on their traps, unmatched access to aegis, etc.?

And every power ability on Rev is an Evade frame, while DH only utilizes 1 stun damaging trap on their utility bar.

Everything you mentioned about F1 (burns are laughable) is more of a nuisance than some kind of high damaging(it’s not), overpowered ability. It’s a CC that’s best for pulling off obvious combos. Stand alone, it’s hands down one of the bottom tier Function abilities in the game.

If it was 50% than the current 70% hit rate, it’ll revert back to trash like it was post-HoT. There’s a reason why Anet increased its hit rate.

Ken got it right, DH is annoying in the bottom tiers, problematic in amber leagues and barely a viable 5th pick in the ESL.

Burn guard says otherwise. If you don’t trait for it, it’s laughable, if you do, it’s not. It’s literally the most damaging condition being applied passively and constantly, idk what’s laughable about that. DH even has 2 teleports (Sword 2, Judge’s Intervention) and cripple to keep people within the1200 leash range. But anyways what’s OP about it is essentially the combination of 1/4 cast and unblockability. Go ahead and find another F1 that does that. Increase cast or make it blockable and I think it’s fine, I don’t want to see DH nerfed into the ground but it needs to be changed to a more skillful profession.

As for the Rev evade frame thing, firstly that’s a huge exaggeration (sign of a bad argument), but also… do they have Aegis? Not even. They do have very obvious blocks that have far less uptime than DH Aegis + F3. Less AoE by far, can’t double-lay their utilities like a bunker trap guard can. No good ranged weapon like longbow or scepter. Horrific condi cleanse, and what they have in place (Glint heal) has a short duration and long cooldown. The list goes on. This is partly a function of the fact that rev was made from scratch a year ago as opposed to Guard being years old, but you can’t really claim that power Rev has the same 1v1 sustain with the meta build.

I’ve seen you defending meta DH all over the forums, which means you’ve seen the million threads dedicated to meta DH hate. Again, I don’t want it nerfed into the ground either, but you might consider actually looking at the class critically and trying to figure out how to change it in ways that don’t kill the class but make it more difficult to use. Blockable or longer-casting SoJ isn’t exactly a huge nerf, I’d expect that someone with your level of experience can handle it. And if you can handle it, why bring up red herrings like Rev evade frames?

Zintrothen.1056:

Huskyboy.1053:

jaded players who are tired of being insulted, either via whisper, map chat, or team chat.

That’s actually a better reason that you think. The community is unbelievable now. And the more players insult other players, the more players will turn off chat. Obviously turning off chat doesn’t solve the issue, but when you’re being insulted by some kitten with no patience, then of course they’re going to play alone. The solution isn’t to force team chat on anyone. It’s to make harsher punishments for those who insult. Fewer toxic players will lead to more players using team chat which leads to higher quality soloQ games. Forced team chat just leads to people leaving the game because now they have no escape from toxicity.

People don’t even get banned for AFKing. The justice system in this game is atrocious.

You’re totally right that the justice system is terrible. Refer to the thread I posted if you want to contribute to that discussion, it was pretty active. This is an important part of the problem, forcing chat does nothing but increase exposure to that toxicity. It does need to be taken care of, and the only thing we can do is keep petitioning Anet to take it seriously, as I already have/am doing

However, I still am not about to let go of the issue of people just avoiding the chat altogether; you just incidentally named the way some people approach toxicity by calling it “playing alone.” This mindset is empirically wrong, you never play alone, you’re always with 4 other people. Guaranteed. And chat blockers ruin 4 other people’s fun by screwing up team coordination in a way that’s easily avoidable. I do not in any way think that “people are mean to me, therefore I can be (indirectly) mean to 4 others” is an appropriate attitude, and it needs to be called out. Excusing chat blockers is just endorsing a more indirect form of kittenbaggery.

Galtrix.7369:

You’re literally blaming the victim for trying to get away from the perpetrator. No sane teammate would blame the victim for going afk because someone was screaming insults at him.

I’m not blaming you for being insulted, it’s not “your fault” unless you’re intentionally playing badly. But adults own how they react to unpleasant situations, and your reaction is to put the burden of your problems on others.

It is a bug, you’re not supposed to receive a penalty if you lose with a D/C. Let me know if I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying.

Galtrix.7369:

So, essentially, you want me to endure being insulted, belittled, and cussed at while I’m attempting to help the team out? Sorry to tell you, but I play video games to escape reality. If I’m being insulted in a video game, you’d best believe I’m going to afk and cost you the game rather than sit there and take belittlement.

Plus, it shows a real lack of maturity when you resort to name-calling and insults… especially in a game.

Alright, let me break it down for you: you are already aware that upon entering a Conquest match, you will be put on a team, therefore making it a team game. By definition that means that your success is tied to the team’s success. Making choices that are to the detriment of the team are what really shows a “lack of maturity.” If you don’t like the team aspect of Conquest then don’t play it. A mature person realizes that you can’t both do your best in the game and avoid insults, so you have 3 choices:

1. Endure the occasional insult.
2. Ignore it and all communication with your team.
3. Not play the game.

You’re picking the middle, selfish option of screwing over your team. If you’re going to play a team game and intentionally make choices that cost them the game, don’t play the game.

Ah I just understood what you meant, stealth attack. Yes, that is a unique profession mechanic. That being said, the discussion is about comparing F1 abilities, should I also talk about how DH have the biggest trap radius, can trait Daze on their traps, unmatched access to aegis, etc.? You’re not incorrect, but including EVERYTHING that makes the classes different is a totally different discussion than comparing SoJ and Stealth. Please start a new thread if you want to compare the professions as a whole.

Madman.6912:

While I agree with the general sentiment, your reasoning if flawed on multiple levels, just to provide the most obvious one, only really ignorant people think that everyone speaks their language….

You’re right about that. On the other hand, that’s not really a “flaw” in my idea since it doesn’t in any way impact their playing experience. If they can’t read it then they won’t read it, big deal. No negative impact that I can see.

Prince Vingador.8067:

Im sorry to tell u but… no 1 needs comunication, every one is a pro here.

Oh yah I can believe it.

Ok now on a more serious note, i have seen a lot , i mean really a lot of bad players , and if by any chance you even say or advise them, the answer is all the time the same.

I’ve had some positive experiences with pretty meh players responding when I say something like “They’ve got mid locked down, play sides.” It’s possible the rest of the Pug magically figured it out on their own, but I’m sure that at times they were listening/reading, which is why they went sides. I think something to keep in mind is that there are still cooperative and decent people playing sPvP, it just might be hard to realize sometimes it because they’re not the ones spamming HotM map chat talking about their naturally high IQ. What I mean by jaded people are those who are probably nice and love the game but shut out everyone else because they don’t want to listen. And note that I’m only advocating forcing team chat in matches, not whisper or map chat. At least force them to give the team a chance, they can always avert their eyes if they really don’t want to read.

Ardid.7203:

I think is already included in the balance: classes without easy launchs aren’t weaker because they don’t have it at hand, they are simply stronger at other strategies.

I agree, it’s not like classes lacking launch can’t kill downed foes. The main reasons I don’t like the disparity is that (barring aforementioned considerations about real-world physics) it wastes precious seconds in capping a point when a downed person sitting on a point continues to prevent cap/decap progress. 3 seconds is no big deal, but 10s+ is actually quite a lot when you’re on a high-mobility class that could be elsewhere.

I’m surprised you haven’t gotten any more comments on this. I would say something about the Coliseum artifacts but I think those have been covered pretty well in other threads already.

Understandable why you put this in the PvP section since it’s a PvP-related issue, but bug reports go in this forum.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

“Steal

• Is thief’s only profession mechanic, not including the stolen weapon.
• Instacast
• Teleports (without interrupting current action) to opponent if they’re 1200 away or closer"

Steal, initiative, augmented weapon skill 1 in stealth, stolen skill are thief mechanics.
Teleported skill is not a mechanic. It is simply how the skills usage cues.

Can you explain your last two sentences a bit more clearly? Also “augmented weapon skill 1 in stealth” is not really intelligible, Steal doesn’t augment/alter existing weapons and stealth is neither a profession mechanic nor exclusive to thief. I’m really trying to understand what you’re saying.

I have not claimed that individual effects that Steal has, such as teleports, are all profession mechanics. Profession mechanics sometimes do things that regular skills can also do, like Skull Crack damaging and causing Stun. Skull Crack is a profession mechanic, Stun and damage are not. See the difference?

I feel pretty strongly about this, especially with (potentially) only having non-premade queue: players should not be able to turn off team chat during matches. I understand why people do it, and I don’t respect the reasoning at all. Yes, you’re playing with a Pug, no, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a team game and the best team will win. People that turn it off are a combination of solo heroes (they’re alone for a reason) and jaded players who are tired of being insulted, either via whisper, map chat, or team chat.

I’ve played team sports irl and there’s trash talk and dirty play there too, and in irl it happens right to your face. I hate it and you can see from my previous post that I think it should be punished in progressively increasing steps; that being said, if you’re so emotionally fragile that you’d rather cost your team the game rather than endure trash talk, you don’t deserve to play. Communicating with your team is part of winning sPvP in Ruby and higher.

Doggie.3184:

Haste needs Superspeed added to it, but in all game modes. It’s something they overlooked when they added the boon. Lower CD would be nice too~ they seem to of been shaving the excessively high CDs on lotta other classes lately.

Not that I disagree, but they did reduce it from 60s to 50s. It would be nice to be able to use it more frequently, but 5s Quickness is a lot and lower CD would mean that I could use it almost every time I rotate. Not sure if that’s a good thing for the game considering the current DPS overload.

Fair enough. If you think it’s important to compare Steal and SoJ:

Steal
* Is thief’s only profession mechanic, not including the stolen weapon.
* Instacast
* Teleports (without interrupting current action) to opponent if they’re 1200 away or closer

• Does no damage
• “Steals” a weapon of varying usefulness; Warr weapon is very useful with Pistol 5, Engi weapon is only useful on downed foes, and even then…
• Can be traited to add a number of VERY useful effects; however, most of these lie in Trickery, which is not very useful aside from buffing Steal. The extra initiative is useful for PP or Staff thieves, is not necessary for D/P thieves. The most interesting Steal traits, such as Daze, Stealth, Endurance gain, and direct damage all lie in different trait lines.

While everyone will take DD for its general usefulness, Trickery is taken specifically because of Steal, meaning that you have to dedicate an entire trait line to making Steal so OP. If Steal were useful without traiting then Thieves would take some combination of DD, Deadly Arts, Shadow Arts, and Critical Strikes. Now let’s look at Spear of Justice:

SoJ

• Is one of 3 DH profession mechanics, each with different uses (offense, healing, defense)
• Passive effect (applies burning every 5th attack)
• Active effects:
• 1/4 second cast
• 1200 range
• Small direct damage
• Short burning and cripple that reapplies itself every second (can’t be cleaned)
• Pierces (can affect more than one person)
• Unblockable
• Can be traited to apply 10s vulnerability when target is tethered and increase damage to them by 10%, apply cripple on passive effect and increase damage to crippled by 10%, and to have passive effect reapply more frequently, apply might and retaliation, and have area burning effect.

All traiting options for SoJ lie in 2 Trait lines, DH and Virtues. Like DD, everyone takes DH. Virtues is more optional.

Similarities

• Can deal damage
• Can be traited to have CC (pull on Hunter’s Verdict, Daze from Sleight of Hand)
• Can apply boons
• Activate at range (different from ranged attack)
• Can apply condition(s)

Differences

• Steal requires movement to target (meaning it forces trigger of marks and traps).
• Steal can steal boons
• Steal can grant stealth
• Steal’s recharge can be reduced more than SoJ’s
• Steal can be blocked
• SoJ applies damage and conditions without traiting; Steal needs traits for both.
• SoJ has passive and active effects.
• SoJ deals damage on activation and over time, Steal is only on activation.
• Possible to have full traiting of SoJ and other professions mechanics (virtues) in one build

I’ve left out some, such as the trait that gives initiative for Steal.

Very cool, I like the concept. Personally I’d like to see a legend that has a more neutral stance towards world events, like Tom Bombadil in LotR, but this is the right way to go if we’re aiming for more evil/power-focused legends.

It’s a little difficult to find streamers, I’d suggest the only Rev video from Trackademics, it’s the one called Untitled Broadcast.

Balouga isn’t as good imo but you will still benefit from watching him. He has far more videos up on Youtube. Condi rev is easier in group fights but fails at dueling imo unless you’re facing a pure condi profession like condi reaper.

Also, you shouldn’t be dueling condi mesmer or condi warr (nobody should). You can beat pretty much everyone else as long as you’re aggressive, even condi reaper is beatable.

Kingsdavid.3598:

First of all I don’t see any way to fix traps cuz they contradict the Thife consept which is high mobility, and not to mention the the hitbox on the traps comper to other Professions like Guardian, Necromancer is really poor. And I think that the traps themself are not so intresting or good IMO.
Still I can think of a way to fix
Caltrops – Make it a range trageted skill with the same hit box, and if the target stay in it for to long or takes to many hits/steps form it he will get Immobilized.
Scorpion Wire ,the skill as it stands right now is really poor, comper to the Guardian’s Spear of Justice which is a about the same skill just way better and don’t take up a utility space. So my suggetion is.
Scorpion Wire – The skill is unblockable, you have 2 casts the first is when you hit and the second is when you pull. After you hit you have a few sec to choose. And if you pull, it shows the target get pull to you and get knock down on the ground and get stuned for a few sec (like he hit his head on the ground when he was pulled and got stuned). hope it maked sense.
Roll for Initiative – Carp skill can’t be fixed, First of all it’s a 60 sec cd BACKWORDS ONLY DODGE ROLL , and comper it to the same skill basically which is Withdraw that has 18 SEC CD AND HEALS YOU. And with daredavil you have so many dodges that even if you make it a 2 sec cd skilll it still crap cuz you don’t need it.

Yeah your explanations make sense. Your idea for Caltrops is great, the immobilize is very useful for Thief, and it gives people the option of avoiding it by dodging out. Unblockable Scorpion Wire would be OP, really SoJ needs to be blockable rather than making other ranged skills unblockable. Your 2-stage idea is great though, that you can save the pull for later, very useful. In fact I think it would be a fun throwback to make it work like the original Scorpion Wire. I think that Roll for Initiative is very useful for PP or staff thieves since they’re more initiative-heavy, I rarely run out of initiative on D/P. But it could skip the evade/condition removal part and maybe replace that with a more useful effect, like Resistance.

Erzian.5218:

plot twist: it is a utility skill like thief steal, not a damage skill like warrior f1.

Considering there’s an actual definition of utility skill, slot skills 6-10, you might wanna rephrase. SoJ is a profession mechanic, not a utility. Yes, Warrior F1 does more damage on some weapons, but overall it is much more difficult to land and requires a chargeup. Steal should not have even entered the discussion as Thieves are barely in the meta (meaning they need OP prof mechanics to be relevant) and DH are on top (meaning they do not need OP prof mechanics).

Spartacus.3192:

Crinn.7864:

Huskyboy.1053:

Nah lol he’s right. The premade’s extra bit of coordination from voicechat will result in a win if the teams are otherwise equally skilled. Teams not on voicechat just don’t focus as well in fights and don’t always rotate logically due to the fact that they’re not constantly communicating.

That only goes so far though. Calling next-level rotations in voicechat only goes so far if your offnode guy can’t win (or at least hold) his 1v1s. Winning still requires a base level skill advantage regardless of communications.

The biggest advantage of premades isn’t communication, it’s the ability to choose comp. (pugs are really bad at negotiating comps)

he said EQUAL level. So get 5 solo queues and a 5 man premade where all 10 players have approx the same MMR, I would bet my last dollar that the premade in voice comms will win more games than the solo team.

Correct. Irl it’s entirely possible that the Pug will win simply because MMR will compensate by picking Pug members of slightly higher skill level than the premade’s members, and that can make the difference. But in the way the example is worded, premade and Pug members being of equal skill level, voicechat-coordinated premade wins 60% of the time, every time.

Anet’s actual ideas are either developed internally or come from collaboration with the informed/intelligent sector of the community through the CDI forum. The poll is just something front-facing that allows a lot of people to feel like they have input since the current MMR system makes people universally unhappy. Read this thread if you want more conspiracy theories/facts.

Ryan.9387:

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

if u think that a premade of 5 against 5 solo is fair match, then u dont know what the word fair/equal means. sure some pve guild plays 5 man premade and get stomp by 5 solo pvper thats a MM problem. but a equally skilled premade vs solo will always have premade win.

You misunderstand what equally skilled means.

Nah lol he’s right. The premade’s extra bit of coordination from voicechat will result in a win if the teams are otherwise equally skilled. Teams not on voicechat just don’t focus as well in fights and don’t always rotate logically due to the fact that they’re not constantly communicating.

Rhex.2739:

Wtf are you talking!? Thief is OP since release. This little kittenters can perma evade, perma stealth, perma backstab, perma block and are perma invulnerable. If Anet buff again this faceroll class with next patch, i quit the game and go back to Hellokittyonline.

Please go already, Hello Kitty misses your enthusiasm. Perma stealth? Revealed. Perma backstab? 1 second cooldown, if backstab misses then you won’t be able to attack before stealth is over. Perma invulnerable? It’s a 2-second trait with a 40s CD. Perma block? This is a complaint for Guardian, not Thief.

These are L2P complaints, or at least L2 understand what “permanent” means. Or if you can’t do that, play meta DH, you shouldn’t have any problems with Thief right now.

Saiyan.1704:

“If you have a class that doesn’t receive representation in the highest tier of play, nerfing it doesn’t make much sense.”

F1 doesn’t meed a nerf. Nothing on DH needs a nerf, but the entire class should be changed. Same goes for Engi, Ranger, Rev, Necro, Ele.

HoT powercreep is ridiculous, matchmaking needs reworked, and certain team compositions are very unbalanced.

This is the part where you put “as a DH main” or “as someone who plays DH” because that way we all know your bias up front. Or was it a different DH named Säiyan that I played last night?

Think about Warrior F1; much slower, requires buildup of adrenaline, but very strong when it hits. Skull Grinder for example requires melee range, is blockable, and casts in 1/2s. DH F1 on the other hand has 1200 range, casts in 1/4 second, and has a CC, burns and cripples, pierces, and is unblockable… what? That is the definition of power creep Even Warrior’s longbow F1 has 1200 range, but has no CC, casts in 3/4s and you have to get your enemy to sit still inside the fire field. Not something they’re likely to do with a weapon as conspicuous and slow-casting as longbow.

I play DH casually and I don’t think it needs huge nerfs, but Spear of Justice is too easy and has too many effects compared to other F1 abilities. Even mesmers, fragile as they are, have to be in melee range of an enemy to get full use out of a shatter. Take a step back and think about how kitten easy it makes the profession that SoJ does so many things from 1200 range with a 1/4 casting time. It should require better timing to land it, or at least be blockable. On the other hand it should do much more damage, its current power damage is low and it actually lends itself more to a burn guard.

I don’t think TotSS secondaries are well-designed; if one team commits to Tranquility and mid, the other team can simply send one person to each side node and quickly recap, as it takes very long to get from the temple to the side points. It’s only useful against disorganized teams, or in other words, it’s most effective against the losing team. Therefore it increases snowball potential rather than negating it. Stillness’ buff needs to last longer to be significantly impactful either way.

Otherwise I think it’s all true. The main issue with these secondaries is that they frequently require fighting, which again gives the advantage to the more skilled team. Were the objectives purely won through speed, or were a logic puzzle made as a secondary, it would give teams with low fighting potential a different way of bridging the gap.

PadreNike.1803:

Jack Skywalker.5674:

Has anyone tried Coruption/Invo/Deva yet?

Unfoetunely like almost any other build out there at the moment, anything without the elite spec is a no go IMO, herald/glint is just too good to pass.

You sure about that? Condi rev definitely works without Glint, and I would not say that Herald is better than Corruption/Devastation. No Herald makes for a slightly more selfish build, but since you’re already without Glint it doesn’t make a big difference.

But it’s inherently imbalanced to give that power only to a very small number of people, that’s the opposite of balance. And it’s not like an interesting class-specific mechanic such as Steal, just a mechanic that a few unrelated professions have.

So I’ve noticed a discrepancy that affects sPvP and maybe WvW: launch can be used to move downed bodies, and push/pull can’t. This is actually pretty messed up, there are strategic uses for using this type of CC on downed bodies, and that usage is being blocked by an illogical disparity. This obviously fuels class imbalance, for example revs can push downed foes off point via Glint elite, but thieves and guards can’t pull enemies off-point or out of node fights or whatever. This should be changed to balance them out.

I feel like this conversation could be a bit more civil? @nerovirgil this is GW2, like in GW1 every build has a counter. Staff thief is hard countered by power rev, so I’d suggest you learn it if you want to win.

Eval.2371:

I like your idea, very original.

This actually very close to something I was working on. Like scary close. I went shadow priest with a stronger magic theme. With virtues and “dark” arcane utilites.

Sounds a lot more like something for guardian or necro

epouvante.7392:

serj.8214:

Mace+Axe is main condi weapons and you still can apply torment via trait with autoatacks and Mallyx has now good condi copy ty to reworked trait. In spvp shiro\mallyx with viper is decent.
I run mallyx\glint in wvw and its so good)
And raid leader is right in Raid ur team need ur DPS so zerk is better then condi. Even ventari Rev in raid is better then condi)

I know that mace/axe is condi… I think you dont understand the topic, compare mace/axe to sword/ shield and you will see that the condi set have 0 defensive tool (sword3, shield 4 and5), and actually in pvp you need that.
Also condi doesnt have a condi switch with defensive tool.
In wvw is not the same, you have more condi armor with defensive stats. And you run in a bus…

You’ve just got to learn how to think about it; Axe 5 is a group interrupt via pull, if you use it right you should pull 2 people in a node fight every time you use it. Axe 4 is a cheap, 900-range teleport with high damage and chill, so use it to escape heavy aoe. Easily done once you practice, Axe skills are an example of active defense. Shield 5 just makes you a sitting duck anyways, if you’re being focused it makes you more of a target and makes you vulnerable to unblockables. Think outside the box, Anet gave you the tools to stay alive and deal damage at the same time.

I think dagger storm is actually more of a defensive Condi skill, but I suppose it could be made more similar to axe whirl.

Very cool! I’d hope it would introduce some new functionality, like blind that affects more than one attack. Somewhat like Daze but doesn’t prevent skill use. Or Deep Wound like from GW1. A minor trait could make any stealth to the Shade be shared with nearby allies just like Inspiring Distortion.