Guild Wars 2

You are doing them 2 favors:

1.) Testing their game.

2.) You gave them money for a product you know little to nothing about.

You’d think they’d at least have the decency to have EU servers operating at peak EU hours. Oh well. I remember a time when game companies would let you do actual beta tests(and this is what this is)for free because you were helping them in immeasurable ways. Now you pay to do it.

Preorders are another thing. Preorders made sense before digital distribution. You had to ensure that a retailer had a hard copy of a disc or cartridge game at their place of business so you would get to play it when it came out. There were finite copies. With digital it’s an infinite supply. Why do people pre-order? Oh yeah because game companies act like they are doing you a favor by “allowing” you to pay to test their game. It’s a crock of Dolyak feces.

Ticky.5831:

Yeah, PUGs are going to gate it regardless.

Take away the ability to see AP and Multiple locked stat raid armor and weapon sets that everyone has access to and you eliminate that to a large degree.

Mark my words. PUGs will require all ascended. ArenaNet can say all they want that the content isn’t gated but this community will do the gating. Not only will they do the gating but the terrible PUG attitude for raids will be of larger magnitude because legendary gear is involved. How could ArenaNet fix it so that “community gating” doesn’t happen? Put in a Raiding gear mechanic where skill is what is required.

And honestly, a Raid Gear mechanic will give ArenaNet way more control over the difficulty of the content. Tune it too much and you have to be in ascended. Tune it to easy and people that want challenging content will complain.

It’s called “Challenging group content”. It’s not called “Earn your Legendary armor that has identical stats to the ascended armor you are already wearing.”

Palador.2170:

flog.3485:

You must also understand that there is no gear treadmill in this game, it is all about cosmetics and crafting you gear up to ascended is just an objective that people set themselves (I personally have never bothered to finish the collection of ascended armors and so far I have never felt underpowered, having only one set of ascended for my mesmer)

Rather, there wasn’t one. I suspect soon that we’ll see something that, while not a treadmill, might be still seen as a grind.

Let’s say that the first raid is doable just fine in Berzerker gear. Lots of people have it, no need to grind for more. But the second raid suddenly requires you to take a lot of hits that you can’t avoid, and survive them. Do you have Soldier gear? No? Go earn a set, then come back. Oh, look, it’s raid three. Conditions rule here. Time to go out and get a set of Sinister. And in raid four, we see an area where you need buffs on you constantly. You have Boon Duration gear, right? No? Well, guess what you get to do!

This is also why I don’t think they ever adapt the PvP gear system for raids. Yes, it makes sense in a way, and I personally would be more willing to consider giving them a second look if they did that, but they won’t. Getting you to go out and do things to get additional sets of gear not only adds time, gold, and effort invested into a raid, but it also makes you want more storage for all this gear. Bank Tabs and Bag Slots, available now in the Gem Store!

(No, no tin foil hat here, really. It’s just common sense. These raids will take a lot of dev time to make and adjust, they want the people that do them so invested in them that they won’t just leave the game once they’ve done them. Getting them to invest time and effort (and maybe RL money?) into them is one way of doing that.)

You hit the nail on the head. It’s on players as well. People say they want challenging content but that’s only part of it. They want content they can do that others can’t. I want the challenge. I want a level playing field as well. The way to handle hard content isn’t to scale it up each time you add a new raid therefore making players go out and get better gear each time(gear treadmill). It’s to give everybody uniform-statted gear or a pool of a few different types from which they can pick from.

I would imagine the player that isn’t actually looking for a challenge in raiding by having an equal playing field is also the player that goes back to new-ish player zones in games with open world PvP on their max level character and spews all sorts of vile garbage as they kill people that don’t stand a chance simply because of level.

I am tired of the garbage. We should all be raiding because we want a challenge, we want to hang with people in game, we want legendary armor, and GW2 is fun. It’s not like the Raid-issued armor sets would cover up the armor skin you are wearing.

Cavalier.9064:

I want to walk through a borderlands or Eternal Battlegrounds portal and be instantly decked out in full-stat armor for the duration of my time within WvW and not just be upleveled to 80, because it shouldn’t be a gear-check, it should be about skill. Just like PvP. I mean, the UI is even in the game!

Also, when I want to do dungeons, I think it should be about skill. As I’m standing at the entrance to Caudecus’ Manor in Queensdale as a level 30, I want to be assured that I’ll be level 80 and fully geared while I’m inside. Just like PvP, everyone should be on equal footing.

Also, I want to be able to do Fractal-level 50 with full AR at level 1. Because skill.

See the pics I posted of one of my posts. I am decked out in all ascended gear. I’ve gotten to rank 80 in PvP. I have multiple Champion titles in PvP. I have completed every single fractal achievement. You can do dungeons successfully and even easily in blue gear. ArenaNet themselves said raids are about skill. They say that PvP is about skill and that’s why everyone gets the same level gear. Raids should do the same thing. I am employing logic here, not just spewing nonsense.

flog.3485:

I have to say I strongly disagree with you OP and frankly I don’t really understand why people (in that case you) keep wanting to make the game easier…..I do understand your points which look valid but in case you haven’t notice Anet never specified that getting ascended gear is required to clear the content raids offer
You must also understand that there is no gear treadmill in this game, it is all about cosmetics and crafting you gear up to ascended is just an objective that people set themselves (I personally have never bothered to finish the collection of ascended armors and so far I have never felt underpowered, having only one set of ascended for my mesmer)
I don’t understand your logic….Like you said it is all about skill and since it is so easy to get exotic armor with not much difference in stats between ascended and exotic, I really don’t understand why you make such a bid deal about it.
Even if you are right, there is absolutely no way that Anet looks at your post, thinks “Oh this player is right” and revert all the effort they put in for the last xxx amount of time they have been working for the design of these raids. NO WAY
ANet may have design HoT to be a horizontal progression, the fact is, the core game doesn’t revolve around that concept. There is a sense of levelling curve from lvl 1 to 80, which is even quite easy to get with tomes, and this sense of progression must be kept, no matter what.

I appreciate your feedback. That isn’t the point of my post though. The point is that there will be groups in whatever map the raid is in using the map lfg tool for raids and they will require people have the best gear. This gets rid of that. Heck, I’d say they should get rid of being able to see someone’s AP in your party window as well.

And just to be clear, I’m not looking for a free ride into Raids. I’ve put in my time. I’ve done all the content. I’m looking for ArenaNet’s actions about Raids to equal what their words are about Raids. The proof in the pudding and all that. If masteries aren’t attunements, if there isn’t a “Gear Gate” to Raiding, then my system or something similar would work. It also gets rid of excuses of why you can’t finish a raid. It’s not about gear score. It’s not about masteries. It’s about 100% pure skill.

I don’t need this. I am decked out in all ascended. I do however want everyone to be able to do these without having to spend a bunch of time gearing up to get into raids. That shouldn’t be the point of raids in GW2. The point should be that Raids are a test of a player’s skill.

Seisus.6591:

Iason Evan.3806:

This way they don’t have to PvE to do raids.

You do realize this makes not sense, right?

They still have to get to level 80. If raids are a pure check of skill, NOT gear, it makes perfect sense. PvP is the same thing. You go into PvP and can start owning people at level 1.

Hey all. I have a suggestion for the raid team. I really like how in PvP everyone gets outfitted with gear. Everyone is in the same tier of stats. The stats can can differ, but there aren’t people in gear that is “top tier”. It’s all on equal footing. If raids are about skill, then why not do the same thing for raids? That way nobody has to worry about somebody trolling in green or blue gear. Nobody has to feel bad about wanting to do the raid but not being able to because they don’t have ascended armor and weapons yet. If you do it this way the barrier for entry is skill not gear score.

Remove the barrier for entry as it pertains to gear.

• If Gear doesn’t equal skill then make the playing field level by using the PvP gear system for raids with its own “Raid Gear System”.

• This will make balancing the raid a heck of a lot easier too.

• This will make it easier for guilds to do raids with whoever is level 80.

• There are a lot of PvPers that are really good players that never wanted to play PvE but could be interested in high-skill level raids. This way they don’t have to PvE to do raids.

I feel like this is a great opportunity to keep the population high for raiding.

I think Keeper’s Gear would be perfect for Ele Support. Still a good deal of damage and solid heals. Guardian could go this route too. I’d really like to see a full set of Boon Duration Jewelry too.

If they wanted to make Raids really challenging ArenaNet could set the armor rating to “Blue Armor Stats” or “Green Armor Stats”. Make it a one size fits all raid gear set that automatically goes on your character. Put everyone on a level playing field. No gear check elitists. Block being able to look at AP. It boggles my mind that they would introduce something that is supposed to be hard(and should be! GW2 has needed this type of content forever)but then they don’t take the necessary steps to make raids all inclusive.

There’s PvP armor stats. There should be Raid armor stats as well. Use the PvP gear window and everything. It’s already baked into the game.

They locked new legendaries behind the HoT paywall. Legendaries that were supposed to be out in 2013 when ArenaNet themselves said they weren’t even considering an x-pac. Same goes for Fractal content. The Fractured update was supposed to bring in the things that are now locked behind HoT’s paywall. It’s not shocking that ArenaNet would do this. It’s par for the course these days.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

means the dev team and its lore dept will be making the content and deciding on how the story goes, instead of a distanced NCSoft… You should care because the game is about to get more immersive in the story department!

^This is most definitely the hope. There are tons of things that are of benefit to the player base that can come of this. Mostly it means ArenaNet is in charge. If things stay rosy for them financially they will be operating fairly autonomously. That went very well during GW1 and hopefully we will see more of that with GW2 now because of it. They released a ton of permanent playable content at a breakneck speed in GW1. My hope is that we will see more of that and less gem shop content for 8+ months this year with no content to go along with it. I always wanted the gem shop to subsidize playable content being released at the same time as the gem shop content. For some reason the living story seasonal content stopped. It shouldn’t have. Those teams should have kept on making content for players while the x-pac was being developed by wholly different teams. Heck, they could have done side stories with characters not involved int he main story. Instead they put all hands on deck and we got a boatload of nothing for the better part of this year.

Today I found some news that ArenaNet is taking over publishing Guild Wars 2. I am over the moon stoked! Congratulations, ArenaNet on this move! I have been more than a little down about the direction of the expansion and this is helping to change my outlook on things. I am still in a wait and see mode for Heart of Thorns, but I am really excited that you all will have total control. It worked with GW1 and hopefully it will work even better for GW2. Congrats!

Test.8734:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

pvp and wvw are not part of Hot.
fractal system is also not hot.
3 new legendary weapons, not a new set of weapons
map bonus, i dont think is hot only change

The full set can be included. It’s something that will be released over time with HoT as a requirement in order to acquire them.

Amazing how people have selective memory when they want to.

Q: In 2013, ArenaNet said that, during that year, we would see the release of new legendary weapons and new kinds of legendary items. Has ArenaNet broken their promises?

A: OMG of course no! That was not a promise, just something ArenaNet said they were going to do! You cannot expect ArenaNet to do what they said they’re going to do!

Q: HoT has very little content. Isn’t just 3 new legendary weapons too little?

A: OMG of course no! ArenaNet promised they will add more legendary weapons soon! They didn’t say when but we know ArenaNet will add those, so you can consider them part of the expansion when you buy HoT!

Uhuh.

eisberg.2379:

Free players won’t be excluded from expansion content? If yes, therefore the game is still buy to play, and they have only given a highly restricted access to the game that really amounts to it being a demo/never ending trial. If no, then why is there a price for it?

Ah, so you are saying that The Old Republic is buy to play? Because, exactly like GW2, it demands people to buy an expansion in order to play through its content, despite how the core game is available for free.

If you really think that, you should share your wisdom with the company that makes The Old Republic, because they – for some completely unknown reason – claim their game is free to play. What do they know, right?

Don’t forget the “Fractured” update that happened a few years back for Fractals that was supposed to introduce leaderboards and Fractal weapon boxes that never happened and are now behind a paywall.

All great questions. Some of this stuff has been broken so long I forgot that it wasn’t supposed to be that way. I would hope they are not only applying the lessons of these mistakes that are still in the game to the new content but are planning on doing a pass to fix these long lingering issues. Actually, the content that has been easy to do because of bugs probably would just stop being done at all because people have been so used to getting through the broken versions of it they wouldn’t want to have to spend the intended amount of time it would actually take to do.

IDK. I think there are valid points on both sides of the conversation. I think there are people saying things that don’t make sense too. Here’s my take: New players should be able to get the core game and HoT for $50. That’s an amazing deal. People who already owned the game should be able to buy HoT for less. That business model was around forever and it worked and it seems like a fair way to do it for all parties involved.

I think the base game+50 is worth it. More than worth it. Do I think the x-pac alone is worth $50? No. Why? Because it isn’t a complete thing. It’s content up front and a season or two of living story to follow and that content was a mixed bag. Some of it was astonishingly brilliant and some of it was really disappointing.

I believe ArenaNet dropped the ball here. Perceived value is a thing. I don’t think vets are getting perceived value with this. Some players may and that is totally fine and they are entitled to that opinion. Just like players who are miffed that they have to pay $50 for just the x-pac are miffed. Opinions. Stop the name calling. Stop the whining. Stop the entitlement. ArenaNet is entitled to charge what they want for their product and we are entitled to think it’s a good value or not.

4 maps ain’t enough for my cash. Just my opinion, but it’s not expansive enough. Would have loved to see lots of varied maps with about the same amount of content in each of them as the base game maps(Frostgorge, Fireheart, Cursed Shore etc.).

Colin made a statement about not raising the level cap and rendering certain content obsolete. You may not have done that, but you released so much great temporary content over the years that is gone now. The Marionette fight. The Battle for LA. The aetherblade attacks. I just don’t have any faith that this x-pac isn’t really just charging for seasonal content up front. We used to get that content for free. When there were a bunch of us asking for an x-pac we were asking for an x-pac of size and scope. Not 4 maps, a raid and some guild halls.

In 3+ years we will have gotten 7 new maps. That is truly disappointing when you look at how amazing the base game is. I will happily spend my money again on this game when we get an expansion’s worth of new zones to play in that are varied in climate and numerous.

All interesting opinions. I have been very clear with my opinion over the course of these last few months. I am disappointed in the scope of this expansion pack. You may not be and that’s fine. 4 maps isn’t enough for me and I am glad I waited to decide on a preorder until I found out. They may be really well made and I am sure they are as ArenaNet’s content and world design is second to none.

7 maps in 3 years is paltry in my opinion. We’ve had too much temporary content. I know that when I was railing for an x-pac it was for something that had the size and scope of Eye of the North. Different climates. Multiple dungeons. Tons of new armor and weapons to kit my characters out with. I wanted something expansive. Again, I know the x-pac will be quality. ArenaNet is tops in that department. There is something to be said for sheer size and scope though too. I like open world games because they feel massive and lived in. The base game felt that way for me at least. 4 maps doesn’t.

Enrif.7359:

4 maps over 3 levels (ground,middle,top) so 12 maps, without counting guild halls and maybe a city like area? Not bad

Well they did confirm earlier that not every map has 3 biomes. So it won’t be 12.

“You’ll journey through four of the largest, most diverse and replayable maps ever built in the world of Guild Wars®; maps in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns are designed as three-dimensional volumes rather than traditional flat planes. You’ll have more to explore as you travel through the jungle biomes, from the canopy heights to the jungle floor and deep below into the jungle roots.”

Taken from here: http://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/maguuma

What do you guys think? Is that just right? Too big? Too small?

the cool part about this is it isn’t a gear-stat treadmill. You get this armor set and it’s relevant forever. good on arenanet for this.

Engineer should be “Punisher”.

“I’ve got enough bullets for all of you.”

bostrees.5306:

WARNING: Lots of speculation and player assumption could be below. Nothing should be taken as fact, gospel, or oral supplement. Consult a physician if reading this post persists longer than 4 hours.

Specifically I’m wondering what’s the point on the Berserker and Daredevil, considering that right now they sound like they’re just modified versions of the meta-build for damage output for those classes. Sure, we haven’t even seen them in effect yet, but I was hoping to see either of those very melee-oriented combat classes get a role as support, perhaps some kind of Battle Medic (which could go Thief or Warrior, imo) but instead we’re getting more 120-range slugfest builds it seems…

That second paragraph specifically is a totally valid concern. Those two classes along with making the guardian spec a ranger without a pet and wearing heavy armor to boot is super lazy design.

Something should be done to fix this. Thieves and Daredevils are getting the short end of the stick with these options. I am sure there are players that like to be silly with their weapon sets, but it should be an option to be silly with legendaries, not mandatory. I get that we don’t have to have them, but the weapons should be so good as for us to want to have them. As it stands now, I have zero desire to put one of these on my Thief and that shouldn’t be that way.

The land spear at the end of season two was a harsh troll. They know exactly how the player base will respond to that stuff and it’s disappointing. One day they are going to do it and it’s going to blow up in their faces.

Well said. Ele is now the only profession with only a single two-handed weapon. They have 3 off-hands. It’s a bummer.

What was the thinking behind this? Ele will be the only class with access to only a single 2-handed weapon. 3 off-hand weapons with access to only 2 main hand weapons seems an odd choice.

Vayne.8563:

I’m not sure how the marketing is misleading. Can you give an example?

You do know because you are a smart dude. But I’ll humor you.

Remember the announcement at PAX South? We had no idea that the WvW Borderlands or the new PvP Mode wouldn’t be part of the x-pac. They are free. But they used them to sell us on HoT as if we were getting that as part of the price. Legendaries! There are new ones. Most people thought that meant the new Legendary weapons. You know, the ones we have been promised would come out since 2013?

Mike: “We aren’t raising the level cap!” as if to say, we aren’t adding an arbitrary system for you to have to grind. Well they are adding in an arbitrary grind in the form of masteries. If I want to kill that boss over there, I sure as heck have to go do stuff before I get to actually do it and spend the points on that instead of maybe other things.

If I’d go back and actually watch the PAX announcement from all the way back in January, I am sure I could find more for you and perhaps some more concrete than the ones I just mentioned. Am I stoked the Borderlands and PvP are free? Totally.

They did however make it seem like we were getting this super complete expansion experience in January but more and more this thing is feeling like we aren’t even going to fight Mordremoth, but rather a season will come afterwards. A season that is pay gated that isn’t finished yet. I am of the opinion they cash gated the seasons and masked them to look like an expansion. Again, just an opinion. I’m not stating that as fact, but time will tell.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Test.8734:

AESOkami.1072:

Is pre-purchasing HoT right away a good idea or not?
Please let me know as soon as you can. It could save me alot of money.

LOL, no.

Wait a few months and you’ll be able to buy it at a discount, as soon as the bad reviews start pouring in.

Save your money. This isn’t going anywhere but down.

You know, you could put them psychic powers of yours to better use. Like predicting natural disasters, or maybe telling me what tonight’s lotto numbers will be.

I mean, of course there’ll be some bad reviews – like most games – and no doubt the price will drop in the future – like most games. But until we know the entirety of the expansion and how well things are implemented, it’s a bit premature to go spouting off about how the expansion is going to suck.

---

OP:

Only you can really decide that.

Is the character slot, title and beta access worth taking the risk that the expansion may not contain much of the content you enjoy?

Personally I’m waiting until I know the full contents of the expansion.

I’m with Bish and waiting. What are we getting exactly? They can have my money when I know what I am getting.

Vayne.8563:

Iason Evan.3806:

It’s not like I don’t get why people would just buy this x-pac sight unseen. I preordered GW2 sight unseen. I followed every bit of info. I posted for years about it on Curse’s site.

The base game of GW2 is the best MMO I’ve ever played. Period. Unfortunately, it is my opinion that the seasons were lackluster and spotty. They had bright spots, but weren’t of the quality I came to expect from ArenaNet. The lack of permanent content didn’t help. The Marionette fight? Temporary. Battle for LA? Temporary. Aetherblade map events? Same. So much great content is just gone. Instead of the game growing, it just got really fun temporary content that I’ll never get to play again.

I don’t think it’s wrong of me to have the assumption that this expansion seems small in terms of geography. When I jumped on the x-pac bandwagon it was to get an expansion pack that was well, expansive. I wanted jungle, desert, tundra, chaparral. I wanted variety.

This thread wasn’t created for the people that already bought the x-pac sight unseen. This was to create a voice for the people that think we may be getting tricked into buying something that isn’t what the devs are saying it is. They are saying it’s an expansion pack when really it feels like paying for a frontloaded seasonal content pack that isn’t finished yet. The devs are the ones that have to think, “Are we being as forthright and honest about what we’re selling as we could be?” Well are you?

Tricked into the buying something that isn’t what the devs are saying it is? This undermines your whole argument. Before that comment I thought you had a legit point. But your original point was they’re not really telling us what it is. So if they’re not telling us what it is, how can people be tricked into buying something they’re saying it is…by your own admission they’re not saying enough.

The fact is, a lot of people are not prepurchasing because there’s not enough information. I did prepurchase because Guild Wars 2 is the best MMO I’ve played for my play style and whatever else is added to it expands the Guild Wars 2 experience for me. If I get 50 hours of play out of kitten expansion, that’s a dollar an hour and less than I spend for most games I’ve bought. I’d be satisfied with that, though I’m relatively sure I’ll get a lot more than 50 hours out of it.

I don’t spend $50 on a game and expect to get thousands of hours out of it no matter what. This is a continuation of the story and lore and experience of a game that I happen to enjoy. I’ve spent more money on less in the past and not regretted that, I seriously doubt I’m going to regret this.

The only problem here is one of self control. For some reason, people feel like they have to play the beta. That’s the only really benefit for ordering now. And if people feel playing the beta is worth it, then people will pay $50 for it, which is a choice each person has to make.

People waste money on crap all the time. They spend money on cigarettes that kill them, gambling that bankrupts them, alcohol that eats away at their liver. They spend money on trips that turn out to be not worth it, because the weather was bad. They buy tickets to shows that cost hundreds of dollars for a couple of hours, just to see a band play songs they already know. They eat at expensive restaurants and get too little food, which they’re not even sure they’re going to enjoy.

At the end of the day $50 for a new game is something each person has to make. But no one is being tricked into anything, because Anet hasn’t really said that much. They told us everything that will be in it and after that, people have to decide if the value is there for them. That decision was easy for me, but I don’t expect everyone to make the same decision as I did.

And some people will get more info and they’ll decide then. We have an announcement about hard content. We have no idea what it is, but some people will see that announcement and decide they have to get the expansion at that point. And they will. Some may decide after that announcement it’s still not worth it.

I’m still not sure what the big deal is.

I didn’t buy the expansion, Vayne. Have not purchased HoT. I am saying their marketing is misleading. Totally separate point from my OP.

It’s not like I don’t get why people would just buy this x-pac sight unseen. I preordered GW2 sight unseen. I followed every bit of info. I posted for years about it on Curse’s site.

The base game of GW2 is the best MMO I’ve ever played. Period. Unfortunately, it is my opinion that the seasons were lackluster and spotty. They had bright spots, but weren’t of the quality I came to expect from ArenaNet. The lack of permanent content didn’t help. The Marionette fight? Temporary. Battle for LA? Temporary. Aetherblade map events? Same. So much great content is just gone. Instead of the game growing, it just got really fun temporary content that I’ll never get to play again.

I don’t think it’s wrong of me to have the assumption that this expansion seems small in terms of geography. When I jumped on the x-pac bandwagon it was to get an expansion pack that was well, expansive. I wanted jungle, desert, tundra, chaparral. I wanted variety.

This thread wasn’t created for the people that already bought the x-pac sight unseen. This was to create a voice for the people that think we may be getting tricked into buying something that isn’t what the devs are saying it is. They are saying it’s an expansion pack when really it feels like paying for a frontloaded seasonal content pack that isn’t finished yet. The devs are the ones that have to think, “Are we being as forthright and honest about what we’re selling as we could be?” Well are you?

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Iason Evan.3806:

I am not trying to blackmail ArenaNet. I’m not making threats. I’m saying if you want my money, let me know what I am getting. My argument is that if they want me to give them money, I don’t want to give it to them and not know what I am getting. For the millionth time, I am not asking that they reveal story beats or plot points. Neither am I asking for spoilers. I want to know how many maps there are. Knowing how many maps there are coupled with the knowledge about how much there is to do in each map in the base game will give me a good indication of how much there actually is to do for my $50.

Then why bother making a thread about it?

I don’t care what you do with your money. It’s your money, I have all of zero say in what you do with it. If you don’t feel like you don’t know enough about Heart of Thorns to comfortably buy the game, then don’t.

It’s when we see a million “This Expansion SUX!” threads, and a bunch of people who are threatening/blackmailing/calling out ArenaNet, demanding to know more about the game RIGHT MYEOW – much like your original post did, come to think of it – that you get people who come in and start arguing with you.

If you want to make an informed, in-depth decision about whether Heart of Thorns is worth the fifty bucks they’re asking for it, then wait until the game comes out, people play it, and the information you want is available. If you want preorder bonuses, BWE access, and first crack at the content when it does release, then preorder the game and deal with the fact that you might be spending fifty bucks less than optimally.

You can’t have it both ways. My beef isn’t that you don’t want to preorder a game you don’t know everything about, it’s that you and many others seem to feel like it’s only your due that ArenaNet tell you absolutely everything there is to know about a game which is still actively in development.

They couldn’t do that even if they wanted to. If they knew everything there was to know about HoT, the game would be done and they’d freaking release it. Either they’ve told you enough to warrant a purchase (or an active no-purchase decision), or they haven’t. Stop with the unrealistic expectations and make a decision.

Don’t inflict your indecision on everyone else, man.

You should read the bolded part that you quoted me on. I don’t want to know everything like you’re suggesting. I say as much in the bolded part. I just wanna know what I’m getting for my money. If it’s unrealistic to want to have a good idea of what my money is getting me then that’s what I am, friend.

usernameisapain.7163:

UnknownRH.4592:

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s a little ridiculous how little detailed information we’ve gotten at this point. I’m not pre-ordering until I know how many maps there are at the very least.

When you guys purchased Guild Wars 2 did you know how many maps you will get with the game? Entitlement is strong in this one. Anet owes you nothing in this regard and crying about it will not make you get it. threatening Anet with your wallet is also not gonna help.

Ah, back then it was a preorder, not a pre-purchase(there might’ve been a pre-purchase shortly before release, or just when they gave us a release date, honestly don’t recall) =) . And I pretty much knew all of what I would get. Don’t remember if all maps were revealed, I actually think that they revealed world map on an occasion or two. Then again, I never complained about knowing exactly how many maps there are, so that argument is void with me.

And majority of people are just making statement, that they won’t buy until they know more. But it seems that a lot of people feel they have to start personal attacks and call everyone entitled, and crying, and attempting to blackmail Anet. Silly, so silly, get of your high horse. It’s a forum, people should be able to make claims, and opinions both ways without anyone insulting one another.

^This is totally reasonable.

I am not trying to blackmail ArenaNet. I’m not making threats. I’m saying if you want my money, let me know what I am getting. My argument is that if they want me to give them money, I don’t want to give it to them and not know what I am getting. For the millionth time, I am not asking that they reveal story beats or plot points. Neither am I asking for spoilers. I want to know how many maps there are. Knowing how many maps there are coupled with the knowledge about how much there is to do in each map in the base game will give me a good indication of how much there actually is to do for my $50.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Iason Evan.3806:

I disagree. It is misleading. There aren’t any legendary backpieces in the game. So in January when they announced there would be new legendaries, exactly zero people were thinking they would be backpieces. Heck, if you want to get technical, they did say a few years ago that legendary trinkets were coming. How’s that coming along?

So it is misleading because when they announced it the flipping corner of the internet that die-hard GW2 fans like myself reside in all did a collective backflip and dragon emote at the same time because we thought we were finally getting new legendary weapons after years of waiting.

So just to correct you here…. They said “legendaries” They didn’t say that would be weapons or armor or trinkets when they originally announced it. Just some items of legendary quality. Most people automatically think weapons, yes, and we know some of those are coming too because they did tell us there would be a whole new set.

We also know that they were working on legendary gear back in 2013, as you bring up. And in the Pax interview with Matt Visual that year (think they were debuting the new Teq in that instance), Colin specifically states that the first legendary trinket/accessory (think accessory was actually the term used) would be a ring or a backpiece, etc. But it would only be one item type and it would be in that general section of items. So, some of us did consider that as a possibility when they said “new legendaries.”

So not sure why you have your panties in a bunch here. We know we’re getting a whole new set of legendary weapons, as well as some legendary back pieces. You don’t want to preorder, that’s fine. HoT will still be there waiting when you finally decide you want to play it.

It’s not that you don’t understand why I am ticked, it’s that you disagree with me being ticked.

Ayrilana.1396:

Iason Evan.3806:

Jimson.5168:

I keep reading these threads and trying to fathom why people keep threatening to hold their breath until their face turns blue to make Anet give them an ice cream cone.

I guess I should make a similar demand… something like… “Give me source code to the game and server side software or I won’t preorder HoT.” Oh, wait! I already pre-ordered. Darn it! I guess I’m just out of luck. Time to take a breath again.

Since I pay more in internet access fees every month than I’ve ever spent in buying and playing this game, the price of HoT is trivial IMO. I do not understand the OP’s demand to know everything up front. That’s like asking for the last chapter in a who-done-it novel before the book is released.

It’s that their information has been misleading Jimson. Colin and Mike announced new legendaries in January. Were you thinking that meant backpieces? No one was but that is what we are getting. They announced multilevel maps. Now they are backtracking and saying that not every map is multi-level. I’d agree with your food analogy, but I am asking for basic info. How many maps? I’m not asking for story beats and scripts for how the Mordremoth fight goes down.

Because the final fight is happening at the end of this x-pac, right? Or nah?

It hasn’t been misleading. Did they say all maps would be multi-level? Did they say all new legendary weapons would be available? They were/are not backtracking. It’s people reading too far into what they’re saying, making speculation or assumptions, and then treating it as fact only to be disappointed later on when they are wrong.

I disagree. It is misleading. There aren’t any legendary backpieces in the game. So in January when they announced there would be new legendaries, exactly zero people were thinking they would be backpieces. Heck, if you want to get technical, they did say a few years ago that legendary trinkets were coming. How’s that coming along?

So it is misleading because when they announced it the flipping corner of the internet that die-hard GW2 fans like myself reside in all did a collective backflip and dragon emote at the same time because we thought we were finally getting new legendary weapons after years of waiting.

Jimson.5168:

I keep reading these threads and trying to fathom why people keep threatening to hold their breath until their face turns blue to make Anet give them an ice cream cone.

I guess I should make a similar demand… something like… “Give me source code to the game and server side software or I won’t preorder HoT.” Oh, wait! I already pre-ordered. Darn it! I guess I’m just out of luck. Time to take a breath again.

Since I pay more in internet access fees every month than I’ve ever spent in buying and playing this game, the price of HoT is trivial IMO. I do not understand the OP’s demand to know everything up front. That’s like asking for the last chapter in a who-done-it novel before the book is released.

It’s that their information has been misleading Jimson. Colin and Mike announced new legendaries in January. Were you thinking that meant backpieces? No one was but that is what we are getting. They announced multilevel maps. Now they are backtracking and saying that not every map is multi-level. I’d agree with your food analogy, but I am asking for basic info. How many maps? I’m not asking for story beats and scripts for how the Mordremoth fight goes down.

Because the final fight is happening at the end of this x-pac, right? Or nah?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If you wait until release, or after release, you will surely be able to obtain all relevant information about the expansion’s worth.

Good luck.

Thanks for your valuable feedback.

Sylent.3165:

Sigh here we go again.

1. Don’t preorder if you don’t want to.

2. If you play gw2 and enjoy it your going to buy it.

3. Before gw2 came out they didn’t go over every single event and map, they won’t do that for expansion either.

4. They aren’t trying to get YOU to preorder. They are targeting a base majority of the players. I preordered happily because $50 isn’t much and I’ll play it.

These threads need to stop.

Did you even look at my original post? I asked them how many new legendaries we were getting. I feel that is a reasonable thing to ask before i slap money down. These threads don’t need to stop. What needs to happen is ArenaNet being more transparent with what we are spending our money on. I’m not asking for story beats or spoilers. I am asking what the breadth of the content of this x-pac is to determine if it’s worth my money.

Well at least they answered my legendary question. Only 3 new legendaries at launch and two of them are backpieces. Ine youg et in PvP and the other is Fractal based. That would lead me to believe the other is a backpiece as well earned by the new challenging group content or WvW maybe.

Terrible.

I asked the same thing over a month ago. No response. I have made threads asking honest questions like, “If we are getting 3 Legendaries at HoT launch and you’ve announced 2 legendary backpieces, is the 3rd Legendary a weapon?” No response. How many maps? Nothing.

Here’s one of the handful of threads I have made addressing this exact thing.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/ArenaNet-Try-Harder-to-get-me-to-Pre-Order/first#post5310179

They want me to give them money without even knowing what i’m getting? That’s laughable.

Odd that they tried to make other Elite specs do things that the base class was lacking in but not for Warrior. It can be condi based or raw damage. If the focus was on condis, then why call it berserker? If it’s amplifying raw damage, the warrior isn’t lacking in that area at all.

The name was a bad choice given the popularity of zerk gear. Oh well.

The spec looks cool though.

I would have called it “Savage” or “Barbarian” or “Demolisher” or “Blitzkrieger” or anything but berserker.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-Wizard-s-Tower/first#post3095663

Quote is from me about a livestream that addressed my questions about the wizard’s tower. They totally shot down using it ever. Super disappointing.

“John Stumme kind of addressed this stuff in the livestream today and I wholeheartedly disagree with what he said. The best content is the content designed around the interesting stuff in the game. For example, I like Scarlet but she came out of nowhere with zero context in the lore. I understand building content around new characters, but it will get to the point that people that care about lore will stop paying attention to it in this game because none of the stories ever get completed.
No one wants to read half finished books. Likewise, I don’t want to play a game where I can get invested in characters only to have the story end at the climax. You need denouement and resolution for it to be complete. I am specifically referring to Livia here.
Please don’t start stuff you aren’t going to finish. Heck, you guys started the Wizard’s Tower and never even told the tale and then moved it here to GW2 and it just sits there in a lonely corner of one of the least played maps in the game. It would be great if you guys finished the tales you started. That’s the payoff. That’s the “lore loot”. The way a lot of this stands now, it’s like you sent me on a lore quest, the quest was buggy and there is no reward in the form of an ending.”

Zalladi.4652:

Iason Evan.3806:

New Legendaries, killing Mordremoth, story content leading up to Mordremoth aren’t coming in this “x-pac”.

Where did you read that? As far as I know, we don’t have any confirmation about whether or not we will be defeating Mordremoth at the end of this expansion.

I am just watching development and communication trends. Go back and watch the HoT announcement by Mike and Colin at PAX South. They confirm Legendaries. In March there was a blog post by Linsey and all the way at the bottom it turns into a handful of Legendaries. They started revealing Legendaries about a week ago. 2 Legendary Backpieces. One you get stuff for in Fractals and the other in PvP. They have since confirmed in the interview in my OP that there are only 3 Legendaries at launch of HoT. 2 of them are backpieces.

Now think about what I said at the start of that last paragraph. Colin and Mike said Legendaries were coming. Think about if they had said we are releasing 3 legendaries at the launch of HoT and 2 are backpieces. The reaction from the fan base would have been awful and for good reason. It’s bad enough that they said legendaries were coming in 2013 and now we are getting them by the end of the year and they are behind a paywall and it’s not even weapons! They did the same thing with Fractal weapon boxes and Fractal leaderboards.

They are releasing the other legendaries over time and mark my words, the same thing will be done with the Mordremoth fight. There will be a season that follows the initial release of HoT that will lead up to the Mordremoth fight. Like I’ve said before, this isn’t an x-pac. It’s a pay first, front-loaded, content update with a season to follow.

Bubi.7942:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I like ANet’s track record:

• Every time I’ve purchased a game, expansion, or “campaign” from them they’ve delivered a core product that has provided 100s of hours of solid entertainment.
• In addition, they provide frequent content/story and balance/mechanics updates at no additional costs.

I don’t care in the least if it’s 3 legendaries or 40, 3 maps or 50. I only care about whether it’s fun and challenging and based on past performance, it seems likely that’s what we will get yet again.

I guess it’s your choice to buy the season pass whitout even knowing if there will be a season.

The sad part about the post is that ArenaNet’s track record is fantastic. This time though they are releasing content over time and charging you for it. With Season 1 and 2 they subsidized development costs with the gem shop. This time they are calling it an expansion pack and still releasing content in the form of a season over time. You aren’t getting a complete x-pac. Sure, there is a lot of content up front. That’s just fact. A lot of it will be released over time though instead of you getting it day of release. New Legendaries, killing Mordremoth, story content leading up to Mordremoth aren’t coming in this “x-pac”. They are now essentially charging you money for what should be seasonal content and also regularly updating the gem shop.

I was a big proponent of expansion packs for GW2. Complete x-pacs. The seasons were spotty in terms of quality. Some were top notch, others were shaky. The x-pac I wanted though was like a traditional x-pac. You pay money for a complete story. If you all want to pay money up front for episodic content that is incomplete, be my guest.

I feel like such an idiot for thinking it was coming on the 3 year anniversary of GW2.

Haven’t posted in this thread in about 2 months. I tried the new traits out like I said I would back then. Not impressed. Why? Because there are less options for builds.

Feedback relevant to now: I don’t think there is enough content. Definitely not enough information for me to open my wallet.

Pre-ordering isn’t how it used to be When I had to go to a brick and mortar store to get a physical copy of a game because digital distribution was non-existant it made sense. It made sense because that store could run out of copies. That issue doesn’t exist anymore. Yet you still want to sell pre-orders and not even tell me how many maps are in the x-pac? No thanks.

The lack of new legendary weapons is another deterrent for me.

I’ll be around. I’ll consider purchasing the next x-pac seeing as HoT will be included in the price provided we get more in the way of information. I’m not asking you to spoil the game. I’m asking you what my money is getting me. That used to be a reasonable thing to ask for and it still should be. I have asked so many questions and all of them have gone unanswered.

I think both sides have valid point. People that are disappointed it isn’t more regions with more variety have a point. People saying they are willing to spend $50 on a smaller x-pac have a point.

dsslive.8473:

Iason Evan.3806:

@dsslive: My assumption comes from the only announced legendaries not being the ones we want to see but rather, backpieces. Are legendary backpieces cool? Sure. Is it what we wanted legendary info on? I am not sure about that. I think we want to know about the weapons.

I am sure there are people that are way more into legendary back pieces than weapons. I’d be willing to wager a dapper llama that those people are in the minority though.

When they say that only three new legendaries are coming with HoT’s release day and they announce a few backpieces…that isn’t the best way to communicate to players and doesn’t give me any confidence that weapons will come at all. heck, they’ve been saying new legendaries are coming since 2013. Why should I hope at this point that any of that will actually come to fruition?

Well for all info there will be people that are not interested, and those who aren’t, all info will be released in time, what the “majority” (something that is completely unknown) wouild rather see is not that important. The information will be released in due time.

I don’t remember saying anything about having hope. But i’ll counter the question with this, why should you worry about something with reletively little (and sometimes confusing) information In due time we will know all there is to know, so it might be bad, it might be good, but worrying over it just stresses you out, so why bother?

Because when Mike O’Brien and Colin stood up in front of an audience at PAX South at the beginning of the year they knew what those legendaries were. Same for Linsey Murdock when she did this blog post all the way back in March: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-legendary-journey/

She knew what the legendaries were and what they weren’t. They need to work on their communication. They know what players(monetary supporters of their game)are thinking when they talk about Legendaries. Not a single player at PAX South was thinking, “Hooray! Legendary backpieces are coming!” Not a one. Not a single person at home that set aside time to read Linsay’s blog was thinking about backpieces. Not a single person. And they know this and yet they continue to put out misleading information or just flat out don’t care. Either way, they need to work on their communication.

This goes back to 2013 dude. I’ve had two and a half years of patience. I log in to get my daily rewards now and log out. I am looking for something, anything that screams to me that ArenaNet wants my money for this expansion pack. Nothing has done that yet, and going from saying in 2013 that Legendaries are coming and then they don’t to saying that new Legendaries are coming in 2015 to a blog post in March that says a “handful” are coming to then saying at Gamesom that there are 3 coming on HoT’s release day, and then showing me 2 backpieces?! Wow!

I’m all out of patience with it.

@dsslive: My assumption comes from the only announced legendaries not being the ones we want to see but rather, backpieces. Are legendary backpieces cool? Sure. Is it what we wanted legendary info on? I am not sure about that. I think we want to know about the weapons.

I am sure there are people that are way more into legendary back pieces than weapons. I’d be willing to wager a dapper llama that those people are in the minority though.

When they say that only three new legendaries are coming with HoT’s release day and they announce a few backpieces…that isn’t the best way to communicate to players and doesn’t give me any confidence that weapons will come at all. heck, they’ve been saying new legendaries are coming since 2013. Why should I hope at this point that any of that will actually come to fruition?