Guild Wars 2

Something jumped out at me in the psuedo code. The off season max size for teams is 5. Does this mean ANET intends to pit premades vs randoms again in the off season?

I’m guessing that right now population is very low. If you you played the two accounts at different times of day (different population count) your match quality would vary a lot.

When there aren’t enough players in your mmr range, the matchmaker starts searching further out. I’ve been placed against an esl player while I’m in bronze ( unranked) to give an extreme example.

In another incident ( ranked ) I actually gained 5 rating points after a loss. The teams were that far out of being even.

Not much to do at this point but ride it out and hope for the best.

I PvE’d for some time before PvP or WvW even became visible to me. I was probably a happier player in those innocent days.

WvW, at least in my perception, tends to be massively imbalanced. That’s not fun. Re-enacting Masada is interesting once. Doing it 20 + times a night gets old fast.

PvP… well, the environment tends to be pretty unfriendly. I’m contrary and hard headed, so I stick around. Friends of mine have come to one session and vowed never to return.

In my opinion, many PvE players would be seriously turned off by exposure to PvP. The PvE world is about epic storytelling and heroic acts. PvP is about cutthroat competition.

GW2 PvP is very much about “cutthroat” competition. Even in the pro ranks we see people trash talking and trolling.

I was musing just the other day that “Blane The Insane” ( a Svanir shaman from Wayfarer Foothills ) sounds a bit like a PvP’er.

In this environment playing a core spec will likely pull quite a bit of aggro.

I’m not saying that’s good or right.

At this point, I’d like to know whether the Devs are reading the forum. It feels like there’s a lot of energy being expended and not much result.

My intuition is that most of ANET’s energy is focused on an upcoming expac or similar.

I don’t know… perhaps there is response on Reddit?

If they re introduce team vs random.. it may finally push pvp population too low to be sustainable.

Team is primarily used as a way to curb stomp randoms and farm rewards. Ultimately that chases people away from pvp, which is why we are where we are now.

There isn’t the population to support a separate team queue. Back in the day there were solo arena and team arena.

Sadly, the decisions made since that time have reduced population considerably. A team queue would need to be the only thing available to get enough players to support it. That, in turn would freeze out players like myself, unlikely to get a place on a good team.

Such elitism would reduce pvp population still further and be destructive to the game.

…. and this was the very next match. Yet another rollover loss.

Here’s my most recent match. The guard/war at the bottom of the blue list are a duo. Red is all solos. We got hammered and I lost 15 points.

Shaogin.2679:

Ithilwen.1529:

Team queue certainly makes it easier , for the players on the teamed side, to farm easy wins.

Short queue times? Yes, the times are short but the match quality is frequently awful. The imbalance is so great that I have actually gotten +rating points for losing a match.

I regard team queue as a crutch for lower skilled players.

Why do you always come in these threads with this? NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT HAVING A MIXED QUEUE. IT WOULD ONLY BE TEAMS OF 5 VS OTHER TEAMS OF 5. I’m really not sure how this is so hard to understand.

Also, matchmaking has been pretty great, especially lately. I’ve noticed the ratings of the players on each team has been much more balanced out lately. I think Evan may have already made some adjustments.

Also, pretty sure you can’t gain any rating when you lose a match this season unless you are recovering decay, and by pretty sure I mean I’m about 99% sure.

I watched it happen. The team ratings were so far off that I gained 5 rating points for having lost. That is a pretty serious imbalance. A team queue would make it that much worse.

Besides, I come to PvP. I really don’t want to have to social network and play politics to get a slot on a team.

Here’s my last two matches. Both losses, needless to say.

First a 400 point loss and then faced a heavily class stacked team that was two duos vs all solos.

ANET, I am really genuinely trying to have a “competitive” attitude.. but this feels very much like season 2.

I’m starting to wonder what the point is. Just finished one of several pre determined matches tonight.

Dh pull is being used to consistently launch me into the air. The falling damage alone is enough to kill as often as not.

The match quality is already well below what it should be. DH is already too easy and too strong.

This crazy insta kill is just rage making. I don’t know why anyone would believe it’s OK to have an insta kill button.

Great, thanks for taking action on this. A little of my faith in ANET is restored.

Braham is an annoying liability. I’d not miss him at all. Majory on the other hand is a pillar of the story.

I love this idea. Maybe even a power source for extended gliding.

Such a skill already exists in the Bloodstone crater area.

Team queue certainly makes it easier , for the players on the teamed side, to farm easy wins.

Short queue times? Yes, the times are short but the match quality is frequently awful. The imbalance is so great that I have actually gotten +rating points for losing a match.

I regard team queue as a crutch for lower skilled players.

Thanks for the answer on shatters.

Will you talk about portal usage? General ideas and any specific tips would be appreciated.

How about talking basic shatter techniques for power shatter?

forum bug reboot

StickerHappy.8052:

Ithilwen.1529:

I would strongly recommend not posting a video. I was asked to kill myself by teammates in PvP after doing so, (at the request of a pro player.) They didn’t want me on there team.

Posting a video will get you identified and harassed in game if the opinions expressed about it on forum are negative.

If you’re bad, you’re bad. That’s the reality. Now instead of being negative about it, how bout use it as a challenge to get better?

I have been and continue to bust my kitten to get better.

That’s not really the point though. I recommend against the OP posting a video because I have experienced very negative consequences for doing so.

I fail to see how I’m being negative because teammates asked me to commit suicide. You might wish to rethink that.

Various issues, including balance and matchmaking, have chased away many players. Low population leads to poor match quality. That , in turn, leads to lower population. It’s a vicious cycle.

I don’t see an immediate solution. Helseth seems to be headed in a good direction reaching out to the community.

I would strongly recommend not posting a video. I was asked to kill myself by teammates in PvP after doing so, (at the request of a pro player.) They didn’t want me on there team.

Posting a video will get you identified and harassed in game if the opinions expressed about it on forum are negative.

@nothelseth

I haven’t complained of being in “elo hell.” I’m not overly happy with the matchmaking, but it’s better than it has been.

My argument is that your experiment didn’t prove what it was claimed it did.

-edit- after re -reading your post, Ok that puts the experiment in a different light. I can see what you’re getting at then.

The issue is that the OP is not a typical case player. As such, he’s not a suitable case for an experiment like the one we’re talking about. That makes the experiment invalid ( in the logic sense of the word.)

The fact that an ESL player can climb through divisions is not relevant to the existence or non-existence of “elo hell.” It does validate “smurfing” as a strategy.

The idea of “elo hell” applies when: player of skill level that could be (for example) Bronze or Silver finds it impossible to climb out of Bronze.

I understand the motive of promoting “competitive” attitudes. I myself am trying to have a more “competitive” mindset as promoted by Helseth.

This experiment doesn’t prove it’s hypothesis, a priori, because it wasn’t set up well.

I’m having the opposite experience. I started the season in mid Silver and loss streaked into bronze in the course of a couple of bad days. Games were awful for a while with score differences of 200+ common.

As the season winds down, I’m finally getting good games that play out to the end.

I suspect that population issues may be part of the problem in higher divisions, the matchmaker reaches further and further to make up a team.

that’s a good question, I’d like to hear the answer to that one too.

A return of team queue would be inviting season 2 back. Pure solo queue would be far superior.

@blaquefyre

Granted, the goal of the system is to place players in the range they are suited to.

My point is this:

The OP asserted that rising through the tiers on an alt disproves “elo hell.” This is not a “valid” argument ( in the logic sense of the word ) because the OP is not a suitable subject for the experiment.

It would be much more impressive if a more typical player were able to do the same.

Now that I’ve said that, I think that the current matchmaking is the least flawed of the 5 seasons. In my opinion, if class stacking were resolved the matchmaking would be in a good place (when population was high enough to support it. )

I’m not sure whether to believe “elo hell” exists or not. I do think it has existed in past seasons.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Ithilwen.1529:

The OP’s action demonstrates that “smurfing” works.

It doesn’t logically relate to “elo hell” or related terms.

To demonstrate the non existence of “elo hell” you’d need to take a player of suitable skill level and have them break through the alleged barrier. Even then, it would be only anecdotal evidence.

On that basis, the OP is incorrect.

So basically if people provide proof it doesn’t matter “Elo/Mmr Hell” exists. And define “suitable skill level” would love to know what you believe suitable Skill level means!

By “suitable skill level,” I mean skills appropriate to the tier in which the “elo hell” is said to exist.

In other words; It’s not noteworthy for an esl level player to rise out of bronze. They are clearly undermatched. We expect them to rise whether they get favorable matches or not.

On the other hand, a bronze level player breaking an “elo hell” barrier and passing into silver would be noteworthy. Since we would generally not expect them to be able to pass through the barrier.

The OP rose through the ranks as we would have expected. That demonstrates that the strategy of “smurfing” is viable.

It does not relate to the existance or non existance of “elo hell” because it’s not a suitable case for experiment.

The OP’s action demonstrates that “smurfing” works.

It doesn’t logically relate to “elo hell” or related terms.

To demonstrate the non existence of “elo hell” you’d need to take a player of suitable skill level and have them break through the alleged barrier. Even then, it would be only anecdotal evidence.

On that basis, the OP is incorrect.

Lordrosicky.5813:

….I rest my case..and I don’t play mesmer or thief, just saying

New players can easily face role on mesmer and be carried by clone and shatter spam.

I lose to gold mesmers, even silver mesmers cause me problems. This is not ok.

It’s “not ok” that you lose to Mesmers? And, by implication, they need to be nerfed because you lose to them?

Wow, just wow. That’s very revealing.

I painfully learned that you don’t want to use phase retreat for the clone. Save it for jumping away from the enemy. This works especially well in Forest and Legacy mid.

I just got rolled over by an esl player in unranked. I’m in bronze 2. I know it wasn’t ranked. This kind of match doesn’t inspire confidence in the system.

Yes, I tend to play on off hours. Still, this kind of match is not unusual for me.

Here’s my first 2 matches of the day. Both were predestined results. This was 12:30 pm.
Admittedly, I generally play off hours.

Still it’s pretty clear with 2 350 point stomps in a row we weren’t well matched. Sadly.. the next 10 matches are likely to be the same story.

Here’s my first two matches of the day. Both are at peak hours. 502-182 and 500-152.

Both were complete predestined walkovers. Something is seriously not working.

Admittedly, I generally play off peak hours.

Wow, I’m impressed. Thanks for the response, Evan.

I hope you’re willing to answer this;

Mesmer, bronze 2, NA

What is the process for making a hard hitting power shatter? I have been running GS and Sword Shield and my shatters hit like kitten paws despite traiting and runes etc.

Faux Play.6104:

Ithilwen.1529:

Yes, matches are deliberately stacked. Here’s 10 of my nearly 20 games today.

That’s an average margin of just over 231 points. It’s abundantly clear that I’m being sent out just as cannon fodder.

I understand the desire to lessen queue times, but I don’t appreciate appearing to be a designated loser. I am not being matched to my skill level at all.

Looking at it a different way, if you average all the scores together you get this:
your teams: 365.7
Other teams: 406.8
The average score difference between your matches was around 40 points.

You were 3-7. In two of your losses your team scored 400+ points. Those were winnable matches.

Yes you could look at it that way. However, a quick glance at the scores denies it Qualitatively, it’s clear that what you’re saying doesn’t reflect the in game situation.

Actually Lyssa is Lys and Issa. They are sister Goddesses of Beauty and illusion.. or some would say lies.

Mesmer has been an entertainer class ever since Lady Althea, (GW1 noob island,) and I, for one, love it that way. It’s our Dharma to steal an Earth phrase.

Yes, matches are deliberately stacked. Here’s 10 of my nearly 20 games today.

That’s an average margin of just over 231 points. It’s abundantly clear that I’m being sent out just as cannon fodder.

I understand the desire to lessen queue times, but I don’t appreciate appearing to be a designated loser. I am not being matched to my skill level at all.

That’s what I meant by stacked. The mm appears to be once again encouraging streaks by setting up one side to win.

That seems fine and dandy if you’re on the winning end. Kitten, if the matchmaker favored me I’d be sitting in platinum.

At this point I have lost pretty much all hope and confidence. I know going in that the match is stacked and that I will be stomped.

Sure, I want to be a competitor. Being stomped into the soil over and over IS NOT COMPETITION.

There’s no need for a blacklist. Just queue dodge like everybody else.

@Starbreaker

The seasons have been repeatedly set up with stacked matches. That is to say, matches that were deliberately unfair, set up for one side predicted to win.

I don’t expect to be top of the leaderboard. I do expect an even match. This season, as the three previous ones, the matches are uneven.

As to indirectly holding me responsible for pvp issues.. well, thanks for granting me that much power.

It’s abundantly clear the matches are being stacked. With 128 matches and 58 wins, ( the majority by blow out, either way,) it’s obvious I’m not being fairly matched.

I’m willing to work and improve. I’m in PvP nearly every day. I need unstacked matches though.

I think the games are stacked to encourage streaks again, sadly. That was shown to be a less than optimal idea in s2 and s3.

Fay.2357:

Ithilwen.1529:

To return to the topic, clone death was removed after an ANET staffer was killed by a clone death Mesmer.

You keep saying this a lot. It’s still false though. It’s amusing because this false statement seems to be the very basis of your argument for reinstating clone death builds…And it’s nothing but a falsification.

An ANET staffer stated on the official stream that he had lost to a clone death Mesmer and went on to say that he had decided the build should be removed. Iw was strongly implied that the decision was based upon that match. This was on ANET official stream and the build was removed the very next patch.

This is fact.

In my opinion, that was not sound decision making and it should be rescinded.

The topic is being derailed by the call for non damage phantasms.

I see that as utterly illogical. ANET could not give us direct damage without nerfing shatter into un-usability. Therefore non damage Phantasms would be a huge nerf. This is the last thing Mesmer needs atm.

To return to the topic, clone death was removed after an ANET staffer was killed by a clone death Mesmer. That was not a good move and should be reverted.

Using clone death permits a broader range of builds to work and it should be returned to play.

I think you’re missing the point. Clone death was a kind of secondary shatter. As such it made shatter better and builds like PU and Phantasm work.

I’d like to see that returned. In doing so it would create more build diversity by breathing life into builds that don’t currently work.