Guild Wars 2

@Zynt

No, but the players you mentioned are being placed in games that they are expected to win and given an advantage in team comp MMR.

@shrek

I agree 100%. I think the best measure of player skill would be solo queue only. The matches would also need to be picked with even teams.

Wrong. A few wins wouldn’t make any significant change in my MMR. So that assertion is simply false.

The incident demonstrated clearly that I can win easily, when the matchmaker wants me to. one of those opposing teams was all ruby to our all sapphire.

No 1 player, regardless of how good, can carry 4 others. That’s a myth with perhaps a very few exceptions.

And that’s my point. Again, the match maker is picking the winner in advance. Hence, winning or losing is not a reflection of skills.

The idea that this will eventually even out didn’t pan out in the past two seasons and it won’t this time either,

The game is awarding wins to favored players. That’s no reflection of skill. It’s also nothing to take pride or prestige from.

The wins had everything to do with being duo with someone with a high rating. The matchmaker placed me on the winning side. So, I won.

That’s my point. The matches are deliberately set for one side to win. That’s not competition. If you have friends to queue with, the game is a gimme. If not.. well you’re SOL.

Annnnd … returning to the game, now solo and on the sides picked to lose, I now have 3 straight losses by stomp and counting.

The matchmaker is choosing the winner and that simply isn’t right.

@Yasi:

If we entertain for a moment your sugggestion;

“This is actually why the switch from matchmaking in season1 to season2 was such a huge shock for so many. In season1, bad players had at least one or more good players guaranteed on their team. That player would carry them, making them feel like they are good.”

I would contend that competition, to be competition, needs a level playing field. The greatest competitions in the world are very carefully regulated to be even.

Nascar, Formula 1, The most competitive ocean and “round the cans” racing sailboats, NHRA Top Fuel… All are regulated to within an inch of there lives. In the case of Nascar and some sailing classes, the vehicles are identical.

Why? Because, when everyone starts at the same baseline the competition is far better. ( yes there are other issues involved but this is fundamental .)

The current matchmaking is not working because it is pre-determining matches. Placing a "good’ team against a “bad” team is not logical or appropriate for creating competition.

The only people who enjoy that are the sort that whisper you to brag and call you a noob after winning 500-0. Yes, I’ve met some. That’s not sportsmanship and it’s not competition. It’s sacrificing one group of players for the pleasure of another.

I don’t agree. There are 5 on a team. 1 player can carry, but not hard enough to make the kind of difference I’ve just demonstrated.

It’s clear that the matchmaker placed us on the side picked to win, and we did.

I stand by my point: The fact is that I can go from a 20% win rate to winning 7 pips and a 4 win win streak simply by duo’ing and therebye being on the favored team.

That illustrates very clearly that the matchmaking is pre determining wins. Ergo, the current season does not reflect player skills.

It can’t, if I can show such a night and day difference in such a short time.

Pretty much, yes. It’s mostly about reacting to the enemy appropriately.

The same player,(me,) went from 28 loss streaks and a 20.4% season win rate to gaining 7 pips and a 4 game win streak in the course of an hour or so.

We were on the side that the matchmaker picked to win. No surprise, we did. I think this strongly underlines that the current matchmaking is not a legitimate measure of skill.

I’d also propose that the concept of matching “good” teams against “bad” teams is logically flawed and should be discarded. Competition, to be legitimate, requires a level playing field.

The build is meta Auramancer. No tricks there at all.

This post is on topic and directly related to previous posts

I get fairly quick matches and am assigned to the losing side every time. With a 20.4% win rate on the season. I’m simply being fed as a punching bag.

I’m not the only one and this is a big reason queue times are increasing. Not many people are masochistic enough to stick around after being repeatedly hammered.

Less population means longer queue times for everyone. The matchmaker keeping people down means longer queue times for the upper divisions in particular.

At least I can take some solace in that.

The matchmaking is causing the queue times. It seems to have the biggest effect on the upper divisions. Coincidently, it was the upper divsion people who pushed for this matchmaking.

I agree OP. A solo queue would be a much better measure of individual player skill. It would also reduce farming issues.

This post is in direct reply to a forum specialist and is on topic

@Wolfey

The Guild Wars franchise is based on heroism. Almost by definition, that means solo or very small group play.

I think that PvP and HoT have been hijacked by the group follow-the-leader mentality. After all, it’s easier to follow than to make decisions and take responsibility on your own.

The way to improve the pvp game and make the matches reflect individual skill would be to do away with all team play. A pure solo queue would be a far better reflection of each player’s skill.

One of the big problems the matchmaking has right now is that it’s trying to compare groups to groups. This is never going to be practical without some truly excessive accounting records of the performance of every player on both teams.

Sticker Happy is stuck in Sapphire !?! Wow… I’m amazed. That makes me feel a bit better about the morass I’m in though.

Here’s a player that I know is good, stuck in the same place I am.

This post is in direct reply to the previous poster. It also directly relates to the subject.

I don’t agree. The matchmaker is deliberately stacking one side to win. Some are being carried on long win streaks and think they are PvP gods.

Others, are being picked for teams that are set up and expected to lose. That’s not a L2P issue and that old chestnut does not apply.

The purpose of the “Legendary” backpack was largely to attract pve players to pvp. However, the “competitive” matchmaking has the opposite effect. I think that’s kind of the point of this thread.

In my opinion. The leagues are not competitive because they do not provide a level playing field. I think it’s also obvious that the league is neither casual nor fun for most.

The failure is in trying to accomplish opposing goals.

@OP

I had a 38 loss streak this season and several back-to-back 20 loss sessions. The 20’s were separated by one or two wins.

Despite expert help, I’m running an 18.9% win rate this season. The vast majority of those are stomps. 500-0 in one case.

The system is expressly designed to keep you losing if you lose and to give you matches in which you’re expected to win if you win. The long streaks are inherent in the design.

This post is on-topic. It is a direct reply to another poster. Further, it relates directly to the subject of the thread.

@Yasi:

If that’s the case, then I propose that the best thing to do would be to accommodate the pve players. Treating them well might turn them into PvP players.

In any case, the logical approach for a company like anet is to play to the majority. So, best practice would be to set up pvp for pve players.

The devs expressly stated that the components from this year WILL expire at the end of the year. The statement was made in a thread I made a few weeks back. This is part of why I’m so stressed about this whole thing.

First let me be clear that this post has no intention of being mean to ANET or anyone else.

Many of those players attracted by the backpack will have immediately been exposed to long loss streaks and blowout matches. So, I’m guessing it will actually decrease population and increase queue times.

At the same time match quality will decrease, because there are fewer players to draw from.

On top of that: the grind is near-impossible to complete. The requirements are so steep that very few pve players have a hope of completing them.

So, the league has pretty much eliminated the idea of being casual or fun.

Yes this is on-topic and in direct response to previous posts. Thank You.

I think such an approach would further alienate pve players from pvp. Population is already too low. Making things more “hardcore” will only reduce population further.

I need to report a player who consistently afk’s to make his team lose. This “person” gets reported for botting continually but is still at it. He’s thrown three games I was in today.

Is there an email or direct source to request help with this guy?

Why? Because I’ve been pounded so hard trying that it’s a point of principal. I started playing back in S1 in good faith. It has been hell ever since. How can I take that hard a thrashing and walk away with nothing to show for it?

I no longer believe the season has anything to do with competition. Competition requires fair matchups. But I’m not going to walk away with my tail between my legs after taking that much pounding.

I finally got a win.. It cost me 38 straight losses and roughly 14 1/2 hours of game play.

The system is not working. The purpose of matchmaking is to provide fair matches. This match making is expressly designed to make unfair matches and it shows.

That wasn’t the deal. The wings were allegedly for everyone.

Wrong. You want a system that will give you advantage. A system that makes it harder when you win forces you to have skill to advance. A system that makes it easier when you lose prevents the kind of hole I’m stuck in.

The current system makes it easier on you when you win and does it’s best to make you lose more. That’s simply illogical.

OK, I’ve been playing 11 hours straight and have 27 straight stompings to show for it. Kitten it, I’m staying until I can log with a win.

The matchmaking is clearly not working correctly.

A real competitive system would make it harder to win if you won and easier if you lost. ANET chooses to favor players by doing the opposite.

How did I say I want the back piece for free?

That’s ridiculous. I’ve worked far harder for it than the majority who already have it. That’s true at least if we confine the work to this series of seasons.

Sorry that attack has no basis in reality.

@Chaith

I resent that you call me incompetent by implication. I’m not the best player by a long stretch.. but I’m not incompetent either with 3 world completions and nearly 4 years on my main.

“I have a good amount of experience with the leagues, and you do have drastically easier matches towards the very end of the season when the majority of competent players have cleared that content and either moved on, or stopped.” Chaith.

You missed some basic issues… I currently have 7 of 11 of Season VI’s requirements complete. That includes Mesmer wins, rank earner and top stats. I got them by being pounded into the ground over and over.

Because of the matchmaking, I am doing my best to get all the peripherals done. 1 1/2 seasons is only just barely enough at the rate I’m ticking wins.

Sadly, I will probably still be denied, because I need 6 wins in a day (hahahahahahaha) and to cross 3 divisions.

I log off when the headache or the nausea get to be too much. I’m at 12 straight losses so far for tonight.. wondering if I can hang to get my nightly win.

It makes me wild and ready to throw my comp out the window that anet deliberately sets matches for me to lose, me and any other low mmr player.

It must be nice to be consistently on the side favored to win.

I will very likely be denied the wings because there is no way I’m going to win 6 matches in a day. I’m looking at consistent 15 match loss streaks and working all night for a single win.

I want the kittened prize. I’ve worked hard for it and I’ll be kittened if I’m going to walk away at this point.

The league has never “levelled out” not in the past seasons and it won’t now. That’s a myth that was used to justify deliberately unfair matchmaking. So taking time off is counter productive.

As to “practically welfare” I think you have a skewed perspective, sir. I need to grind as hard as possible to jump through all the hoops.

The final hoop, division crossings will likely not be attainable. I wouldn’t mind staying in one division and it would be pleasant to be matched with similar skilled people.. division means little to nothing to me.

ANET however, has decreed that I need to win enough times against steep uphill odds to cross another 3 divisions. It doesn’t look like that’s going to happen. Thus all my work this year is wasted and I simply got used as cannon fodder.

@Chaith

Thank you for acknowledging that I am in fact " ridiculously oppressed by the matchmaker." Ergo, the system is not working properly.

Yes of course I’m worried about whether or not I’ll be able to get the wings. This is particularly true in light of the number of crushing losses I’ve suffered through.

As to the “system’s integrity”: The system is expressly designed to make unfair matches. There’s no integrity in that.

I understand that certain players would like to be matched only with players of similar skill. The simple fact is that there aren’t enough players to do that. The efforts to create that situation have only reduced the population.

Elite echelons can’t be supported.. there simply aren’t enough players. Sadly, ANET tried to resolve that by attracting players via a legendary backpack…

Then those players were used as pure cannon fodder for the entertainment of the elite players. Naturally, this dampened enthusiasm.

Now, it’s becoming very apparent that the wings can’t really be gotten by “everyone.” Posters on the forum even advocate basically denying them to anyone below legendary. This has the potential to become a real credibility problem for ANET.

The safe points make winning the wings a possibility, if a slim one.

As much as some would like to deny it. The wings are the reason many people are playing. Why else would anyone put up with a system that is designed to heavily favor some players and cause loss streaks for others?

Remove the last hope of getting the wings and you lose those players.

@Chaith

Perhaps the neo-smurf issue isn’t as large as I suspect. I still contend that no serious competition venue deliberately presets the results of a match. I’m in Sapphire because I fought my way to Ruby last season and then fought my way out of Emerald this season.

I’m in the appropriate skill range as much as you are. We were both assigned per last season’s results. The problem is clearly the matchmaking that is expressly designed to cause one side to win.

That is amplified by the fact that it keeps reaching to further and further ranges because of the dwindling participation.

Yes, you’re right Ross. I admit not being a high level player. My issue is that I want matches tuned to my level. This is the purpose of matchmaking.

-edit- At this point random matches would be a significant improvement.

One of the things that’s subverting the matchmaking is this season’s version of the smurf exploit. It goes like this:

A diamond/Legend player decides they don’t want to wait for a queue. Instead, they make an f2p account and start out as an Amber and have great fun stomping there way up till queue’s get long again. Then they rinse and repeat.

The problem is that this practice removes any semblance of fair matchmaking and makes the game about RNG rather than skill.

ANET should permit f2p accounts to PvP but should not allow them in tournaments/league.

The problem is that the player base is dwindling AND high level players are cycling back through the ranks on f2p accounts.

So, not only are the high end queues empty, but the low end queues are invaded by people exploiting being way below there skill level. In doing so, I think they are also driving away most of the pve players that got pulled to the tournament.

@Ross Biddle

Sadly, the shiny (the legendary backpack) requires crossing divisions. Remove the “safety nets” with the players cycling through on f2p accounts for easy wins and the matchmaker… and the shiny would become unobtanium.

That would remove the last motivation for new players to play. They certainly aren’t playing for the pleasure of being pounded repeatedly.

A major issue is being overlooked here. So-called “good” players are cycling back through the ranks on f2p accounts.

Therefore, neither I or any of the other players honestly struggling through the lower ranks are getting a fair shake. We’re continually matched against Diamond/Legend players in disguise. I have personally posted multiple screenshots of an ESL player (still wearing his ESL guild tag ) farming in Emerald over a period of 9 hours.

I suggest that f2p accounts shouldn’t be allowed to queue for ranked for at least 6 months or not at all. They can play pvp.. but not be allowed to gum up the works in the tournaments. This is an exploit that ANET is permitting and it makes matchmaking at least partly meaningless.

The difference looks effectively larger and here’s why: 3 seasons into this “league” a lot of players have been alienated. The matchmaker has to search an ever widening range.

Yet it still insists on stacking one team with the intent that it will win. This means that the MMR difference is going to be ever wider.

If you choose 10 players from among say Sapphire and Ruby and stack one team to win the difference may be relatively small.

On the other hand if you choose 10 players from Amber and Diamond ( an extreme example for illustration ) and stack the “good” players on one side… You have a near certain outcome. That outcome being a roflstomp.

That’s not competition.. it’s just a gimme for one group of players at the expense of another.

That’s because players have insisted on making advancement as hard as possible. I for one have no sympathy. Too many of those win streaks came on my back.

As to posting a video of my gameplay… Not a chance in the ninth circle of hell. I did that last season and got told in game that I should just go kill myself among other things.

This community told me I was garbage in game for weeks after posting a video last season… no chance folks.

As to deliberately unfair matchmaking. It’s been repeatedly explained by ANET that teams are stacked in such a way that one is significantly stronger than the other in MMR terms.

In other words, one side is set and expected to win. That’s not fair competition and it never will be. THAT IS NOT LEAGUE PLAY OR COMPETITION, IT IS FAVORITISM PURE AND SIMPLE.

In order to be legitimate, competition has to be fair, not a gimme for one side.

Ok remove safeties if and only if you remove the division crossing requirements. Otherwise, you simply bar the wings to many players including me.

First.. “where I belong” is in matches that are set with fair sides.

Second, if the system were set up that way, there would be no hope whatever of winning the wings. The chance is slender enough as it is.

ANET’s goal of attracting PvE players to PvP is subverted. The matchmaking is such that it guarantees that the vast majority will never win the prize. At the same time.. it exposes them to repeated hammering.

I’ll say this again: “No serious competition format deliberately pre sets the outcome of a contest.” It is insulting to the side that’s meant to win, since it’s not a show of skill to win a game you go into with a heavy advantage. It also insults the side meant to lose, since they are simply being used as fodder.

A true competitor wants an even match and may the best player win.

And finally got a win, when a member of the other side sat out half the match on a rage quit.

Sadly, a 15 loss streak is only mid length for me. ANET, do you honestly believe this matchmaking is good for PVP?

ANET expressly stated that the ingredients would be no good after this year.

That’s a side point. This matchmaking is conceptually wrong. This is not reality TV. People are not paid to come here and be pounded on.

NO SERIOUS COMPETITION FORMAT ANYWHERE DELIBERATELY SETS ONE SIDE OF A CONTEST TO LOSE

This is not competition. This is not Esports. This is simple favortism. If I could without being infracted I’d describe what it actually is….

My issue is that the matchmaking is deliberately unfair. ANET has chosen to implement a system expressly designed to keep losers losing and winners winning. THAT IS BLATANT FAVORITISM AND CAN ONLY BE DESTRUCTIVE TO THE GAME.

I know it’s making a few people feel like champions. However, it’s at the cost of making players like myself miserable.

It is also going to prevent me from winning the wings, thus removing the whole reason for putting up with this.

The purpose of matchmaking is to place players of similar skills together. The purpose is not to set up players to be punching bags for the pleasure of others.

OK, I now have consecutive loss streaks of 23, 12, 11 and now working on 6.

On the advice of forum members I switched to Warrior. I am consistently getting stomped by 300+ points.

It’s very obvious that the matches are being predestined by the matchmaker and that is really a kitten poor way to make a game.

This is not competition. It is pure favoritism of a small group of players. I’ve taken to thanking ANET for my punishment after each match and asking for another.

No actually the parts of the wings expire at the end of Season 4. So, the promise has been very much broken, shattered and the shards ground to dust.

Y’all are missing a basic point. Many of the players currently in PvP are there at least in part to win the wings.

As it is, a fairly high percentage will be unable to make it. This is an issue because ANET promised that anyone could earn the wings.

How willing do you think those players will be to come back next time after the hammering with the current matchmaking and no reward?

This isn’t mixed martial arts.. it’s a game that people are paying to play. It’s time to realize that satisfying the egos of a few by being cruel to the majority is not a good plan.