I’d say there is a pretty clear reason why ANet has not weighed in on this one. They have no interest, nor intention of doing anything about this.
People threw themselves against a wall for months for next to no benefit to themselves. They did it for a challenge. Ok, so if they did it for their own reasons, why should the be rewarded now by someone else. They did a difficult thing, that wasn’t specifically supported by ANet, for bragging rights. Why should ANet now give them recognition when that recognition never existed before?
ANet never really put a lot of thought into Fractals. It was an experiment that they’ve only now started to really think about and improve. You should consider all the time up to Fractured as Fractals Beta, and be glad that the wipe is only taking you back to 30, rather that to 1.
Now ANet IS supporting your struggle, and you should expect potentially better compensation for your efforts going forward. But no one cares about your efforts before, because they were your efforts for your reasons, and only you can reward yourself for that.
Resetting levels is not supportive.
You don’t have proof that it was not intended.
We HAVE proof that it was designed as an unlimited dungeon. Why would we night try to make it as far as possible?
If they didn’t intended to go past 50, why was there no hard cap at 50?
OH! I know how about everyone who is upset about losing their levels gets a special set of town clothes only available to them. It’ll be a onesie that says fractal qqer and a pacifier or a rattle for your “toy” slot.
This is a good move. Ive done daily fractal runs, when I can, since its release. Bumping us down to 30 is ok with me. I would have no drive to do anything but 48 if they didn’t. Since its possible the content will be more difficult it only makes sense to learn the new challenges and earn your way back to the top.
Put instabilities at 50.
nope at 81 since it’s the only hardcap that ever existed… putting it at 50 basicaly tells me that I should have not Cried about gw becoming a geartreadmill ( because after january pach you needed gear instead of skill to advance ) butmaking my progress look like I did exploit ( wich i did not) because they’re making it unable for others to get there.
I still suggest 50 because there was an obvious soft cap at 50.
I am not saying you exploited at all, you put the effort to go to 80, so if they chose to put it at 80, I would still be okay with that, more so than putting it at 30.
Personally though, I think it should be 50. At least we can both agree it should not be 30.
that’s true.. for me it’s just Special the softcap didn’t exist when I played fractals… nobody knew about it the entire community didn’t … they could have just told us:(
Agreed, but when has Anet been communicative about anything relating to dungeons? =)
Point really is, they actually did make it impossible to beat fractals, people just skipped these fractals. You cant really claim they didnt try to stop people from passing 50, they just didnt do it effectively enough.
They put a hard cap at 80. You could literally not select 81. Why did they not do that at 51?
I agree there was a soft cap at 50. Some people saw that as a challenge to go past. They shouldn’t be punished for that. If Anet didn’t want people to go 50+, they should have hard capped it.
If your reason for the reset is because people weren’t supposed to go past 50, why is the reset at 30 and not 50?
This is a good move. Ive done daily fractal runs, when I can, since its release. Bumping us down to 30 is ok with me. I would have no drive to do anything but 48 if they didn’t. Since its possible the content will be more difficult it only makes sense to learn the new challenges and earn your way back to the top.
Put instabilities at 50.
nope at 81 since it’s the only hardcap that ever existed… putting it at 50 basicaly tells me that I should have not Cried about gw becoming a geartreadmill ( because after january pach you needed gear instead of skill to advance ) butmaking my progress look like I did exploit ( wich i did not) because they’re making it unable for others to get there.
I still suggest 50 because there was an obvious soft cap at 50.
I am not saying you exploited at all, you put the effort to go to 80, so if they chose to put it at 80, I would still be okay with that, more so than putting it at 30.
Personally though, I think it should be 50. At least we can both agree it should not be 30.
The hole in your argument is that gold, under the fantastic new platinum system, still has value, and furthermore had intrinsic value before the burglar.. uh.. burgled it all?
Fractal levels never had intrinsic value beyond the rewards. You couldn’t trade them or hoard them or spend them.
Your example is a classic straw man.
My levels had value to me. Just because you either didn’t have the levels (which I’m guessing) or didn’t add value to them, doesn’t mean I don’t value them.
In his example, gold only holds value to buy the beginning platinum you need, so it still holds true.
if everything is platinum only, then gold doesn’t hold value anymore.
This is a good move. Ive done daily fractal runs, when I can, since its release. Bumping us down to 30 is ok with me. I would have no drive to do anything but 48 if they didn’t. Since its possible the content will be more difficult it only makes sense to learn the new challenges and earn your way back to the top.
Get over it. Your rewards have already been acquired in terms of what the system you earned those numbers under offered. You’ve lost a number that will be functionally void at the exact moment you lose it.
So if they replace a PvP map, you’re okay with them resetting all glory and ranks to 0?
When they removed the TA up path, they did not reset all dungeon master or tokens.
When they removed MF, they did not completely delete all MF (with the exception of celestial)
When they redesigned AC, they did not reset dungeon master title, tokens, and levels earned there.
Removing content is no excuse to delete progression.
With all of the controversy around this whole leaderboard and reset thing, and the silence regarding what may or may not be done about it… it would be nice if maybe we at least got some info on what the leaderboards (the reason us 30+ folk are bumped down) are supposed to include?
I mean I don’t like the lack of answers any more than the next person, but I understand why it might be hard to give us an answer right now if its still in discussion. But an answer on form leaderboard information maybe?
If it’s still in discussion then it should have never been released.
If it’s now back in discussion because of our complaints, then they should tell us that and hold one of their oh so famous CDIs.
@ Romo. That is so depressing, however, sadly, incredibly true.
The only thing that I could see being done at this point is:
1) Adding some sort of retroactive compensation for people who were reset
2) Allowing players to opt out of the leader board (however level would still be reset)
Last workday before Weekend and they won’t do any changes at prepatchday sooo last day of hope:(
However, these are things that can be done after patchday as well.
Compensation for buying multiple soul bound tools are still being processed.
@ Romo. That is so depressing, however, sadly, incredibly true.
The only thing that I could see being done at this point is:
1) Adding some sort of retroactive compensation for people who were reset
2) Allowing players to opt out of the leader board (however level would still be reset)
Actually, there was no compensation for celestial items. They just lost their magic find stat.
And no one cared about it.
I didn’t care because I didn’t have crappy celestial gear. However, if they would have given them compensation, I would not have been as angry as some people here calling people entitled and selfish.
You’ll be pitted against a series of unique “fractal” mini-dungeons that get harder and harder as you progress, giving you unlimited levels of challenge!
It says unlimited…
Players were allready dissapointed when they reached lvl 80 and couldnt progress farther. And Anet did not reply to those.
And now they go one step further and take away all the progress those players earned back then.
I guess they call it unlimited because once we reach the cap, they reset our levels. That way it truly is unlimited
I haven’t been following along the conversation, of which there are pages and pages of posts. But have the devs given a reason why they’re resetting all progress back to 30? I’m sure they’re doing it because they think it’s a good idea (whether it is or isn’t) so I’m curious what that reason is.
The update on the main page said they were resetting all progress to 30, so that players were on “equal” footing when it comes to the leaderboards. Why is 30 equal? I don’t know, should be 1 if that were the reason. Unless leaderboards only track instabilities, but tha twould still be unfair for anybody under 30.
As far as the other responses, they have been suspiciously silent to any questions, comments, concerns, or suggestions.
Everyone arguing on behalf of the 50+. I am not seeing anything lately from you guys except “don’t do it.” That is not going to happen. This update is coming out on next Tuesday. Even if the developers wanted to change something drastic, there is not enough time. I agree with you guys, I agree that this sucks, I agree that you shouldn’t lose your levels, I agree that this is not fair, it is happening.
They have most likely given up, became so infracted that they can’t post, or switched games. Offering solutions won’t do anything, because like you said, it’s happening whether we like it or not. (Hint: we don’t)
I could offer a million solutions, but the fact that a single dev hasn’t responded, makes me think they don’t care. They are letting us vent and argue with eachother, while they work on the next LS content.
I could be wrong, but until I see otherwise that is what I have to assume.
There’s only one true thing they could record on their leaderboard which would have a meaning : highest level attained.
Other things would be quite pointless… Best time ? Completely depends on which maps you’ll get on rotation, and best time would force people on specific professions.
But for highest level attained to have a meaning, you must not make any cap on level, or you’ll have a ton of people tied at first place. So, putting a leaderboard, and a hard cap at the same time… I just can’t understand them…
I guess it’s hard for me to wrap my head around leaderboard for PvE content.
PvE is about bringing the community together. Deleting progress in order for us to compete against each other will do the opposite.
If anybody ACTUALLY cares about being at the top, they will refuse to help people because they want to stay up there. The only thing I see that will come from leaderboards is gloating and elitism. Maybe very low toons begging the top ranked people to help them.
I really hope the clown car is changed. Rest of the dredge fractal is bearable. Bombs takes too long but its not so bad. I dont really have a problem with any other fractals except for cliffside being a bit too long overall.
I actually love the clown car, its probably not intended to be like this but to me, its a phase where you just nuke down mobs who gets killed before they can even let off 3 attacks and you get tons of loot.
The problem for me is that at the entire fractal is a huge suicide run. You HAVE to die at the start, and throughout the encounter, you just will die from way the mechanics of most of the fractal works.
O.O
What lvl do you do it on? Its incredibly boring, takes way too long and if you camp at the front and kill as they spawn they are always invuln for ages. And they do hit you while being invuln.
Don’t kid yourselves. This whole thing is done to please the casuals who found fractals “hard” and “not worth it”. The content will be far from challenging.
But cheer up. The leaderboards will be dominated by a select few and this is so awesome. Pugs won’t stand a chance and I hope the gearchecking will also include rank checking. Maybe ISP speedtests too.
Why can’t people opt out from participating in the ranking stuff and keep their progress? Some of us were looking forward to get to fractal 80 ourselves.
The majority of those “elite” few couldn’t care less about the leaderboards.
I haven’t seen a single post in favor of leaderboards, is anybody actually looking forward to it? (Honest question, I really do want to know)
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
—
If 48 is drastically different than 49 then put my maximum access to first unique scale (probably 40 or 45). But I guess in that case changing reset level to that 40 or 45 would fit better.
However system like that sounds quite bad because higher scales can be easier than previous ones. But we will see the actual implementation soon.
if its some unique mechanic for each level, its pretty hard for them to say which one is harder. In GW1 different people had different problems dealing with the hard mode limits in Domain of Anguish.
For example a constant DOT is going to effect lower hp players more than higher hp players, or native hot players.
Less endurance would effect thieves more than say guardians.
Its pretty unlikely that the new difficulties are going to exactly be strictly speaking harder than each other, if they each have a unique mechanic.
The overall point is that if our hardcore players can beat fotm level 50 day one, then it’s a horrible design.
If they struggle and have to work up to it, then they will have to do that anyway.
Resetting levels arbitrarily is not the answer.
people wont go back, there is no advantage to going back, or gearing that occurs there, they will just figure out how to beat level 50. And it really isnt bad design to have different challenges even if you have to number them. A fighting game may have like 10 hard combos, if you go to training mode they have to put them in some order, its actually better IMO if they have 10 different challenges that are all fairly difficult, rather than just getting harder. More entertaining to beat.
Well, that’s true if it’s always one instability (gambit) on each level, that’s the same. What if it’s a random instability (gambit) ontop of increasing difficulty (like health, attack, armor, etc).
Also, it’s advertised as increasing in difficulty. In the old system, if you couldn’t beat 10, chances are you couldn’t beat 20 (unless you get carried). So why start at 30 instead of at least 40?
To the twilight sellers , please don’t force me to do the map completion, it takes forever and it’s dull . In a week it’s gonna be 3k or something ? Don’t be so greedy , it’s just a weapon ….
With new rune of resistance fotm high levels will be easy so don’t complain about releveling when they are making it easy for you to do it.
With new rune of resitance fotm high levels will be easy so don’t complain about leveling up to 50 when they are making it easy for you to do it, to enjoy the new content starting at 50.
The whole reason nobody is being taken seriously is because of people that went past level 50 cap. That’s why we have people arguing, that’s why everything is overlooked while insults and jabs are being directed towards these players.
Is it? I am upper 40s, but people still seem to have an issue with me being upset my progression is removed.
Most people on the side of the change seem to be under level 31, with the exception of a few upper 30s or low 40s
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
—
If 48 is drastically different than 49 then put my maximum access to first unique scale (probably 40 or 45). But I guess in that case changing reset level to that 40 or 45 would fit better.
However system like that sounds quite bad because higher scales can be easier than previous ones. But we will see the actual implementation soon.
if its some unique mechanic for each level, its pretty hard for them to say which one is harder. In GW1 different people had different problems dealing with the hard mode limits in Domain of Anguish.
For example a constant DOT is going to effect lower hp players more than higher hp players, or native hot players.
Less endurance would effect thieves more than say guardians.
Its pretty unlikely that the new difficulties are going to exactly be strictly speaking harder than each other, if they each have a unique mechanic.
The overall point is that if our hardcore players can beat fotm level 50 day one, then it’s a horrible design.
If they struggle and have to work up to it, then they will have to do that anyway.
I think skill should be rewarded over effort. Fractals was made and sold as “challenging content” where we could push ourselves and our skill/knowledge.
I think deleting any intended progress should be compensated.
I feel bad for the 50+ people because it was a lot of time and effort, but like I said, I thought it was apparent Anet didn’t intend to go past that. They should have put in a hard cap, but they chose not to.
maybe read post above.. and there is a hardcap on 80. so we we’re supposed to go higher or at least allowed with they’re full knowledge … they saw that we made it to 80 I guess and they didn’t react to our Posts you can’t tell me they have metrics on everything and than then they don’t look at the Progress in they’re infinite Level dungeon…
I am not trying to be mean, but I’m not sure the point you are trying to make. I was replying to somebody, but didn’t quote because it was a wall of text.
To clarify, I don’t think the people that got to 80 did anything wrong. I was just explaining why I choose to stop under 50.
I think skill should be rewarded over effort. Fractals was made and sold as “challenging content” where we could push ourselves and our skill/knowledge.
I think deleting any intended progress should be compensated.
I feel bad for the 50+ people because it was a lot of time and effort, but like I said, I thought it was apparent Anet didn’t intend to go past that. They should have put in a hard cap, but they chose not to.
As I have said before, they could make leaderboard based on highest scale beaten (after patch). So high scale people can try 50 and see if they can make it. If they do then new content is already a joke and the new leaderboard will be a joke. If not, then they have to go practice/get gear from previous scales.
Here’s where the analysis becomes more difficult. People who leveled beyond 30 did so with the full support of the Development team, and consequently have a good claim to that progress. I think it was bad, awful, and reprehensible communication by the Developers to not give us notice earlier. Particularly to people who were leveling alts through Fractals.
As much as it seems we disagree, I do fully agree with this.
I fall in the 30+ group, but no the 50+ group. I also saw it as a soft cap, but I can see how people chose to level past that, as we were promised an unlimited dungeon. I just chose not to take the risk, as I was expecting the next update to open up 50+, which is why I stopped right before.
We are losing sight of the main focus here though.
Levels are being reset due to the leaderboards (according to the company that is in charge of the content and changes). That doesn’t seem right.
It would be nice if there was some clarity given on that. I can’t help but feel that logically it makes sense to have the accessibility be there for the new content as well as make sure everyone needs to actually progress through the new content to increasing difficulties regardless of the leader boards / JumboTron.
As much as it makes sense (which I do agree with) it’s still very unfair to those effected.
Instabilities could have been added to 50. Or, instabilities could be optional (starting at 30) that would allow you to choose the instability for increased rewards (Similar to gauntlet). I could think of a variety of options that would appeal to people much better than what Anet is trying to implement.
Until they say otherwise though, I have to assume they are restting people to 30 exclusively for the leaderboards (which is what they said)
Ok to clarify this analogy no one can ever take away any one of your degrees. However it can become no longer relevant. It happens all the time, and its part of real life. I think the orginal poster’s point was it shouldnt happen in an MMO.
However i disagree, a good mmo has to have at least some ability to move forward and add new things, even if it invalidates some previous things. Its actually really common in MMOs, the main difference is usually they would just make it really easy to get past old roadblocks, where as here they reset it. the effect is the same.
They might invalidate some equity, but rarely do they ever reset it (except for roll backs or exploits).
It’s possible to design new content without completely erasing old content.
With the changes they have said (aside from leaderboards) I can see why resetting to 30 seems okay, however the changes they have said are not.
Advanced fractal runners should actually be 48+, because they actually had to dodge agony whereas y’all had plenty of AR to tank (lol). So really, it dumbs down all of the advanced fractal runners to be on equal footing with the casual fractal runners, which, yes, will be ahead of those players who barely set foot in fractals. So they’re clumping the top players in with the casual/semihardcore players. That’s not… Well.. It’s not quite right.
Not to mention that after the update, there will be no difference from players lvl 30, 40, 50, up to 80. Even though those at 80 put in incredibly more work than those at 30.
Caveat Emptor. Buyer Beware. Players who progressed to 80 did so at their own risk.
This is wrong. Why was it at their own risk? Was up 49 their own risk? Was leveling a character to 80 at my own risk? Is playing GW2 at my own risk? Where is the line drawn?
The line is drawn at…
drum roll
Fractal level 49.
So then why are people level 49 being reset?
Apparently because the Developers felt that was the only way to facilitate the leaderboard. I’m not a Developer—I cannot comment on what their thought process was.
But to those who leveled beyond 50. We all knew it wasn’t intended. We did so anyway, ergo, buyer beware.
But that doesn’t matter. Because the stuff that wasn’t “buyer beware” is still being reset. They put a cap at 81 (it made you select 80), so why not cap it at 50 if it was so obvious not that anet didn’t intend to go that high?
Advanced fractal runners should actually be 48+, because they actually had to dodge agony whereas y’all had plenty of AR to tank (lol). So really, it dumbs down all of the advanced fractal runners to be on equal footing with the casual fractal runners, which, yes, will be ahead of those players who barely set foot in fractals. So they’re clumping the top players in with the casual/semihardcore players. That’s not… Well.. It’s not quite right.
Not to mention that after the update, there will be no difference from players lvl 30, 40, 50, up to 80. Even though those at 80 put in incredibly more work than those at 30.
so your main issue is you want to stand apart? then a title would be good?
No. I don’t want my progress erased.
so you want fractals to remain as they are essentially?
Not necessarily. It could use some small redesign (like dredge) along with better rewards and exploit/bug fixes.
I believe if you level is reset you should obtain compensation, instabilities start at 50 (where the old soft cap was), OR they keep fractals as it is, and add instabilities as a side event (either related or not) with extra reward.
Advanced fractal runners should actually be 48+, because they actually had to dodge agony whereas y’all had plenty of AR to tank (lol). So really, it dumbs down all of the advanced fractal runners to be on equal footing with the casual fractal runners, which, yes, will be ahead of those players who barely set foot in fractals. So they’re clumping the top players in with the casual/semihardcore players. That’s not… Well.. It’s not quite right.
Not to mention that after the update, there will be no difference from players lvl 30, 40, 50, up to 80. Even though those at 80 put in incredibly more work than those at 30.
Caveat Emptor. Buyer Beware. Players who progressed to 80 did so at their own risk.
This is wrong. Why was it at their own risk? Was up 49 their own risk? Was leveling a character to 80 at my own risk? Is playing GW2 at my own risk? Where is the line drawn?
Geeeez guy. I don’t think they should be just given the levels, no. But why do we have to participate in a leaderboard that we don’t want to? Not to mention, I have privacy concerns about it… Like, will those at the top be inundated with people begging to have help in fractals? How will the leaderboard work in that situation?
Anyway… If we don’t have to use leaderboard, why lose our levels? Or just make it so, they still have to complete levels 30-50, but it still says that their prl is the same and they still get that karma and such for going below their level?
Idk. Maybe I’m just a psycho.
Nah, those are actually great and valid questions. With regards to developing a fractal paparazzi I don’t know… that’ll likely depend on how the player him/herself reacts to the requests. But as far as competing, you don’t have to. You can ignore it, just don’t look or care. But the reason, logically as I see it, to have the levels set to 30 (disregarding the jumbotron) is this… you haven’t worked your way up the difficulty scale to get to the higher levels yet. We don’t, as of yet, know how much of an impact these instabilities will have. So it may be worth it to take a breath and enjoy a new path of progression that you’ll have rather than the same old same old daily every day.
Agreed. And will this cause a new form of elitism?
“LF1M. Heavy armor only, 55 AR. Be rank 1000 or better”
Advanced fractal runners should actually be 48+, because they actually had to dodge agony whereas y’all had plenty of AR to tank (lol). So really, it dumbs down all of the advanced fractal runners to be on equal footing with the casual fractal runners, which, yes, will be ahead of those players who barely set foot in fractals. So they’re clumping the top players in with the casual/semihardcore players. That’s not… Well.. It’s not quite right.
Not to mention that after the update, there will be no difference from players lvl 30, 40, 50, up to 80. Even though those at 80 put in incredibly more work than those at 30.
so your main issue is you want to stand apart? then a title would be good?
Advanced fractal runners should actually be 48+, because they actually had to dodge agony whereas y’all had plenty of AR to tank (lol). So really, it dumbs down all of the advanced fractal runners to be on equal footing with the casual fractal runners, which, yes, will be ahead of those players who barely set foot in fractals. So they’re clumping the top players in with the casual/semihardcore players. That’s not… Well.. It’s not quite right.
Not to mention that after the update, there will be no difference from players lvl 30, 40, 50, up to 80. Even though those at 80 put in incredibly more work than those at 30.
Caveat Emptor. Buyer Beware. Players who progressed to 80 did so at their own risk.
This is wrong. Why was it at their own risk? Was up 49 their own risk? Was leveling a character to 80 at my own risk? Is playing GW2 at my own risk? Where is the line drawn?
You guys went to school? You invested your time to get certain degree? New curriculum introduced and they told you your degree no longer valid?
That’s the type of equity wiped make people upset. Real life & in game.
If you don’t understand this principle, I don’t have anything more to say.
That sort of stuff happens in real life too. You either learn the new content to refresh your degree/certification or you find a new line of work. So here you either learn the new mechanics they’re adding in at level 30 or you find another game/part of gw2 to play.
No it doesn’t. I have my bachelor’s degree in chemical engineering. That will never be taken away from me.
Advanced fractal runners should actually be 48+, because they actually had to dodge agony whereas y’all had plenty of AR to tank (lol). So really, it dumbs down all of the advanced fractal runners to be on equal footing with the casual fractal runners, which, yes, will be ahead of those players who barely set foot in fractals. So they’re clumping the top players in with the casual/semihardcore players. That’s not… Well.. It’s not quite right.
Not to mention that after the update, there will be no difference from players lvl 30, 40, 50, up to 80. Even though those at 80 put in incredibly more work than those at 30.
I’ve been fighting since the moment the information been released on Tuesday. I’ve written countless posts regarding the issue and reading through many opinions of various types of players. And from what I’m seeing is that most of the players are either fine or happy with it. The only hurt playerbase is the one that put the most amount of time and investment in fractals. And that’s a very small group compared to everyone else.
Developer’s involvement in the matter is very small to non-existant at this point. It has been almost three days since the debate started and they’ve been avoiding answering anything of value to us. The only thing we got after three days is that they’re reading and gathering feedback. Therefore no action has been taken and accounting for the amount of time that’s left before the actual release, no action will be taken because of time shortage.
There’s one thing that they don’t fully realize. And that is the fact that two weeks later after the next update will come out, all those players that they’re trying to please with fractals will move on to the next patch, leaving fractals behind. Small percentage will catch the fractal fever we’ve had for a year now, but aside from that, it’ll all be left behind just like it was till now. Except for all those hurt people working their way back up to what’s been rightfully earned the first time around.
We’ve build quite a community around fractals, helping people taht are new to it, getting others interested. Obviously we have some elitists here and there, but that’s expected. But now our community is being destroyed jsut to please other community for a short amount of time, untill we’re forgotten and left behind yet again.
As the matter of fact I’ve yet to see any WvW or PvP update that people were this unhappy about. Even GvG communities are being pleased with the Obsidian Sanctum arena where they can do their thing without affecting WvW in any way.
Also, you said this “Exactly. Lol at 50+ being “hard.” It’s no harder than putting together the right group and knowing the loopholes.” So yeah…. logic is hard
