Guild Wars 2

sephire.7296:

I wouldn’t pay any attention to the unreasonable and frankly disingenuous comments from fellow Mesmers saying you could have avoided this insane burst from stealth. They know it’ll quite rightly be toned down soon.

Most Mesmers here have already admitted that certain traits needed to be shaved that can be argued. Heck more than most.
And the fact that the Mesmer burst from stealth is just icing on the cake for QQ’s. It could have as easily blinked in combo’ed and shattered or just plain walked up doe the OP wasn’t paying attention to his surroundings.
Happened to me last night when I was fighting another Mesmer and necro. A thief appeared to Rez the necro as I was trying to stomp so I disengage but lo and behold an ele I never knew was there kills me. Situational awareness is more important in WvW and anything.

I’m game! Maybe we can fine tune the S/S Staff build I’ve been running while we’re at it Chaos

That was a low blow Ross. But I like it

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Pls show me a ranger build with instant/stealth burst, instant cc, instant stealth, invuln, boon remove (to counter stability/protection), teleports, protection, regen, aegis, blinds, condi remove, …

Btw you are really calling a class, that has probably the most acess to defensiv mechanics (is there even anything not aviable for mesmer?) glassy?

Please show me one Mesmer build that has ALL that in it at the same time with RELIABLE access to each and every single one.

Youkay.5294:

All the ignorant bashing of Thieves on this thread… Shatter mesmer, at this point, requires absolutely no skill. Thieves, on the other hand, have all their weapon sets nerfed to oblivion, except the P/D build, that also requires no skill.

GW2 is becoming more and more a noob fest for people who cry and whine about other classes, while ignoring how ridiculously easy and strong their own class is. Just look at the abundance of mesmers in WvW, while there are close to no thieves in WvW or PvP.

I’ve been through this thread twice now and see nothing bashing thieves. And of all the people that’s posted in it none would be ignorant about something. I think instead of coming to the Mesmer forum you should stay on the thief forums.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Nier.8741:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I read this as…

“Hi! I don’t play Mesmer, but here’s some changes to bring the class in line and make it fair while adding risk vs reward. Sure, I have no idea how this will affect the class in other areas of the game, nor do I know the effects this will have on any other build besides the one I’ve had to fight.”

“Why 15 seconds? Because… It felt like a good number. I’ve done extensive test- oh wait.”

Oh yet, my favorite person agreed with you’

“There’s no risk with a class that fights from ranged! What.. You mean I’m actually NOT mad at Mesmer and just don’t like their greatsword? No! Nerf the whole kitten class! They get one 2.5s evade and an immune! I hate that!!!!!”

Jeez.. I really hope by now the devs have weeded out the real problem. No offense OP but those suggestions are not only overkill, it ignores the fact that the class on a whole is not overpowered. A few traits (3 to be exact) need fixing/shaving, not gutting.

That is sad and pathetic if you refuse to understand that Mesmer never took skill to begin with

Like evading while doing 10k instant cast shatters is just as easy as Rampage. You’re just angry that you’re in denial that you play an easy and effective class.

Come to me with a logical argument about why Mesmer “doesn’t take skill” compared to whatever “hard mode” class you’re playing with some actual facts rather than broad generalizations. Then we’ll talk.

Oh yeah, almost forgot… Smiley-face.

But Chaos don’t you realize for a logical argument to appear there would have to be an actual logical argument? Not just forum warrior logic involved?

Curunen.8729:

In terms of videos I learnt the most from – Osicat, Vashury and Seven Mirror (Idc what people say about the quality of opponents).

I’m with you on Seven Mirror. The quality? Yeah ok but it’s WvW and that’s not the point. He was a dang good Mesmer and person which is what I think matters.
Though Osicat did some nice vids too.

But my favorite “experts” would be Chaos for when I want a good discussion, Fay(pyro) when I want to be told how it is no if, ands, or buts and and I always seem to learn something from Sevens videos no matter how many times I see them.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Xaylin.1860:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Being able to activate and recharge utilities in stealth is very, very important. Stealth is not some sort of 100% guaranteed immunity against all forms of danger you know -_-u

I know. But with just disabling weapon skills I’m quite certain the whining will go on regarding utilities. Clones and Illusions. Blinks. Mantras. Buh. Why not just go the whole way?

To be honest, I just can’t bear all the complaining anymore.

Because without weapon skills it then becomes impossible to “burst from stealth”, which is the complaint. You can’t burst with utilities.

Forcing kill shot builds looks better day by day lol.
But seriously. A shave to the duration on PU, either a flat 2-3 sec or 66-75% duration, remove might and add resistance instead would fix that.
Then by making CS with a slightly high per target icd and the large majority of the burst complaining is fix.
But once that’s done they’ll move on to saying we have too many evades, invulns, ports, etc and therefore are a skill less class.
Sigh. You can’t win for losing I guess.

So six pages in and people still come to complain about Mesmer. I wonder… Do they even bother to read the comments to see the suggestions that have been put forth that would bring the underlying issues in line? Or just complain because forum warriors

Ross Biddle.2367:

I have the simple fix to all stealth related problems.

No weapon skill activations while in stealth. Done.

The sole exception being Thieves #1 skills because thieves have always gotten special treatment.

An even better fix would be convert all existing characters to kill shot warriors. No stealth involved :P

Hahaha at least you’re honest with yourself Chaos.
You just need to practice with GS more and stop laying down whenever Ry duels you :P

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Chaos using GS??? I want to see how that will go again lol.

Now Ry that’s just rude!

ASP.8093:

Sandrox.9524:

not balanced around dueling-yet insta jib everyone in wvw even in mid-zerg.yeah lets make warrior rifle #1 skill killshot+quickness w/o use of adrenalin and say yep its ok gw2 is not balanced around dueling.

…

You do know that the real mesmer burst is melee range, right?

If a full-glass mesmer is diving into your zerg like that, it’s because you’re all about fifteen seconds away from being completely routed. (I’ve done that, pre-patch. It’s really fun but you’re really just profiting off your enemy being really, really strung-out and confused already.)

The 1200-range greatsword 4-2-3 burst is much easier to avoid and doesn’t do a full health bar’s worth of damage.

Interestingly enough ASP they probably do know that. And realize that once a Mesmer is in melee range of that many people(who should have full buffs, food, swiftness, etc) will be immediately targeted and chased down. Difference is… It doesn’t fit their argument that Mesmers are gods and can do all this stuff that other classes can’t so they just chose to ignore obvious facts.

Sandrox.9524:

denis.9487:

DHawk.2687:

EvilSardine.9635:

Because mesmers are basically the best profession in the game and require barely any skill to play. I’m a beginner mesmer player and I BARELY have to try and I will win every duel or stalemate it. It’s so easy. Even my wife can’t be killed on her mesmer after she copy pasted my build and it was her first time using it.

Last night my roaming guild ran our usual professions but found it tough because we kept being zerged down. We swapped to a 3 mesmer comp and were unstoppable. I wasn’t worried one bit when I was in a fight. Nothing could pin me down and I can disengage anything I wanted. I can troll around the enemy keeps and spawns and they can’t do a thing. Duels were trivial. I do massive damage and have so much stealth and invulns it’s insane.

There’s no point in running anything else but mesmers at the moment.

Sadly that’s true
I play a d/d thief (now if anyone comes and wants to tell me thief is op I’ll just leave the forum laughing) and the ONLY way i could manage to kill a PU mesmer was because first of all, he was power based, so i could stealth of his clones to keep me invisible,
but the most important thing was that i put him under constant presure, giving home no time to think or prepare and always on the run, if i had done one mistake, one fail backstab or being revealed to long he would have jsut onehittet me (me having 21k health)
it is almost impossible to beat the PU mesmer atm, since he has an almost limitless amount of counters to every situation.
I don’t want to badmouth the mesmer, pre patch I’d always say gg or nice if a shatter mesmer killed me, because i knew it was hard and that player must have skills on the mesmer, but now, it’s honestly just pathetic, as some on this thread have said, a total noob wins almost every fight without any understanding of the actual mechanics, it’s just pure faceroll…

Again wonderful Mesmer is hard to duel. Again not balanced around dueling.

not balanced around dueling-yet insta jib everyone in wvw even in mid-zerg.yeah lets make warrior rifle #1 skill killshot+quickness w/o use of adrenalin and say yep its ok gw2 is not balanced around dueling.

Wow so one Mesmer instagibbed an entire zerg? I’m impressed! There again the hyperbole is real here

EvilSardine.9635:

Because mesmers are basically the best profession in the game and require barely any skill to play. I’m a beginner mesmer player and I BARELY have to try and I will win every duel or stalemate it. It’s so easy. Even my wife can’t be killed on her mesmer after she copy pasted my build and it was her first time using it.

Last night my roaming guild ran our usual professions but found it tough because we kept being zerged down. We swapped to a 3 mesmer comp and were unstoppable. I wasn’t worried one bit when I was in a fight. Nothing could pin me down and I can disengage anything I wanted. I can troll around the enemy keeps and spawns and they can’t do a thing. Duels were trivial. I do massive damage and have so much stealth and invulns it’s insane.

There’s no point in running anything else but mesmers at the moment.

I’m curious as to what build, armor, and food you were running? That way I can try this all encompassing build.
Also dueling in WvW will generally always go in a Mesmers favor since we tend be be fantastic duelist. So you can’t so OP on that.

I wasn’t saying you, or anyone one on this particular forum, was making unjustified complaints. However, if you go to the PvP forum… Oh my. The amount of QQ there is horrendous.
The thing with distortion on phantasm summon is just like you said, it goes away. And the fact it’s in a much improved inspiration line makes it harder, to me, to take versus other traits. It’s not something I’d ever take compared to things like RI.
And PU is such a niche thing. That’s why I don’t understand the reasoning behind the complaints. It’s either roaming burst(aka thief like but better) in PvP or used as condi in WvW(and camping keeps but that’s fun and if sweeps are done you’ll get caught). So again maybe it’s just me but having played a condi Mesmer before I know I can chose to fight or not. Roaming burst harder to chose, however, squishy as crap and once they blow their load it’s generally gg.
I’m liking the resistance more and more… Hmmm I wonder if we could get Anet behind that.

I think Apharma that while we may disagree and some things we can agree that people are kittens XD
However, to get the strongest shatter possible you already have to pick shatter traits for the % damage increase so people will always complain about Mesmer burst. They always have-always will.
15% phant damage being baseline. See to me that’s a tricky one. In a team fight, PvP or WvW how long do you expect phantasms to last? Not long due to cleave and AoE. So 15% isn’t something to get upset over. A change to that would be give them AoE protection baseline instead and have to spec for the damage. Any build needs to AoE protection whether it’s to shatter or have sustained damage but a phantasm build gets more mileage out of damage modifiers so to me that would be a good trade.
I honestly don’t see anyone complain about the torch trait or MI. It’s always PU this and that. But that just means we see different people XD however bringing PU down to a 66-75% stealth increase would probably be better than 100%. However, if that happened I would like to see might removed and resistance added since it is a defensive boom and defensive trait.
I whole heartedly agree with condi. You can tell someone that Mesmer is weak to condi but for some reason since it happens to disagree with their argument they ignore it O.o
Regardless, it would appease the masses, while keeping the build alive, to give CS s per target cd.

I think the problem is that Mesmer now is a more viable threat to those that played the cele meta and they want to go back to pre patch cele days. That and the patch put a hurt on certain builds like shout bow and a handful of engi builds. But rather than going and trying out new trait lines and combinations the masses would rather nerf a class that really doesn’t need it.

I’ll answer by numbers.
1) I think most people have come to realize that CS is a little too strong in its current state. Especially with the synergy it has with other lockdown traits and that a shave to the % and a per target icd in probably in order. However, Lockdown is now a build that isn’t niche. It can be used in top tier play rather than shatter or gtfo being the only build. That in itself is a good thing. Does it mean mesmer as a whole is too strong? No, it just means that one simple shave to CS would fix that problem.

2) High damage. A mesmer in full zerker gear(ammi/runes) can/will put out a lot of damage. However, on the other hand to do so odds are extremely likely you’re running Dueling/Dom/Ill and not running Insp or condi clear so you are going to be very squishy and vulnerable to conditions. (I’ll answer baseline IP, etc later)

3) I see the 15% phant damage baseline as an answer to them being so squishy to AoE. Feel free to disagree but by making it baseline they made it were you can take different traits to increase production of phants, give them distortion, whatever.

Mantra’s? Well not every build is going to be running them and those that do tend to run 1 maybe 2 at a time so I dont feel that its that big an impact.

And finally IP. Arguably the defining mesmer trait. It is a game changer I will give you that. However, I believe that it being baseline was necessary to promote different builds. Condi shatter is better now with it even with the MtD nerf. Phant builds needed it for burst. But they made the CD’s on the shatters baseline. Which I like but probably causes frustration for many.

4) Reflects – traited more than you need but bring it on
Invulns- when traited for signet check. Otherwise Ive not noticed an increase from pre to post patch
Boons- Well. I think Chaos would explain that one better than I could with his boonshare build. But he traits specifically for it so we will check it anyway
Burst- Always had good burst ability but its augmented with traits that capitalize on poor enemy skill usage, or the lack there of.
Stealth- Unless traited there is not any more stealth available post than pre. If a lockdown build goes PU for stealth(I dont see the point of it) then they potentially have 2 longer stealth unless they give up an offhand for torch which is crazy for lockdown.

Thats my thoughts on the matter Stickers. Does CS and PU need a shave? Yes, other than that.. I say let mesmer be.

StickerHappy.8052:

Jace al Thor.6745:

denis.9487:

Aomine.5012:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Aomine.5012:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Cynz.9437:

people hate mesmers for same reason why they hated thieves pre patch: burst from stealth…. except mesmers can do it better now, while stacking dazes and actually living way longer than thieves….. and thieves got nerfed so they can’t keep mesmers in check.

That being said, enjoy the bandwagon before you get flooded by QQ and get hit by nerf bat

I would disagree… But standard GS shatter rotation says otherwise. Granted I’ve since moved to a different weapon set that’s more fun. However, the amount of QQ over something that’s been around since… Who knows is what’s sad. Everyone conveniently forgets lots of classes experienced a power creep and blame Mesmer for some l2p issues. Other than PU and CS. Those are different stories.

And you conveniently forget it was impossible to have such combo before the patch too. It is the new mechanic, IN ADDITION to the old one, that makes Mesmer OP.
Excluding any part of it and said it’s there before it’s just silly.

So it was impossible to burst, potentially “one shot”, from stealth pre patch? I’m sure Vashury, Osicat, Guapo, and others would disagree. What’s different now is that the burst is BETTER and if CS is taken more stuns.

You still missed the point.
In the past Mesmer is bursty, but frail and little margin of error.
Now Mesmer is still bursty (in fact, way more bursty), but with alot more margin of error thanks to all the new toys. Stun-lock only make things worse.

And this just puts Mesmer with the rest of the classes. Learn to adapt.

Thank you. People seem to miss this fact. Too often

This is false. Mesmer was powerful pre patch. Only baddies say that Mesmer is in line of the rest of the classes now.

PS: In PvP it was almost impossible to one shot someone pre patch. WvW is a different story, you get additional stats, food buffs, and from what I see in videos, A lot of WvW players are bad, they won’t even dodge an unstealthed mirror blade burst.

Montages are not even woth mentioning as these are nitpicked ideal situations, If you have faced them before in a match or duel then I will take that source as credible.

Yes Sticker Mesmer was strong pre patch. You could hop in unrank and farm baddies all day. Take that same Mesmer into a high tier setting and you would be farmed unless you had a team peel for you.
Post patch that isn’t the case. And that’s fine. Only someone that’s upset that the class got the buffs everyone been asking for and is doing better than expected thus drawing more attention than ever before.
The issue, once you get past damage which a lot of classes have seen increased in varying forms, is that CS works better than Anet imagined when combined with PB. PU is a troll thing to take unless you want to shadow zergs or what not but it boils down to CS. Otherwise Mesmer is fine and realistically actually needs bug fixes and reversions on traits like Chaotic Dampening.

denis.9487:

Aomine.5012:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Aomine.5012:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Cynz.9437:

people hate mesmers for same reason why they hated thieves pre patch: burst from stealth…. except mesmers can do it better now, while stacking dazes and actually living way longer than thieves….. and thieves got nerfed so they can’t keep mesmers in check.

That being said, enjoy the bandwagon before you get flooded by QQ and get hit by nerf bat

I would disagree… But standard GS shatter rotation says otherwise. Granted I’ve since moved to a different weapon set that’s more fun. However, the amount of QQ over something that’s been around since… Who knows is what’s sad. Everyone conveniently forgets lots of classes experienced a power creep and blame Mesmer for some l2p issues. Other than PU and CS. Those are different stories.

And you conveniently forget it was impossible to have such combo before the patch too. It is the new mechanic, IN ADDITION to the old one, that makes Mesmer OP.
Excluding any part of it and said it’s there before it’s just silly.

So it was impossible to burst, potentially “one shot”, from stealth pre patch? I’m sure Vashury, Osicat, Guapo, and others would disagree. What’s different now is that the burst is BETTER and if CS is taken more stuns.

You still missed the point.
In the past Mesmer is bursty, but frail and little margin of error.
Now Mesmer is still bursty (in fact, way more bursty), but with alot more margin of error thanks to all the new toys. Stun-lock only make things worse.

And this just puts Mesmer with the rest of the classes. Learn to adapt.

Thank you. People seem to miss this fact. Too often

Aomine.5012:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Cynz.9437:

people hate mesmers for same reason why they hated thieves pre patch: burst from stealth…. except mesmers can do it better now, while stacking dazes and actually living way longer than thieves….. and thieves got nerfed so they can’t keep mesmers in check.

That being said, enjoy the bandwagon before you get flooded by QQ and get hit by nerf bat

I would disagree… But standard GS shatter rotation says otherwise. Granted I’ve since moved to a different weapon set that’s more fun. However, the amount of QQ over something that’s been around since… Who knows is what’s sad. Everyone conveniently forgets lots of classes experienced a power creep and blame Mesmer for some l2p issues. Other than PU and CS. Those are different stories.

And you conveniently forget it was impossible to have such combo before the patch too. It is the new mechanic, IN ADDITION to the old one, that makes Mesmer OP.
Excluding any part of it and said it’s there before it’s just silly.

So it was impossible to burst, potentially “one shot”, from stealth pre patch? I’m sure Vashury, Osicat, Guapo, and others would disagree. What’s different now is that the burst is BETTER and if CS is taken more stuns.

Cynz.9437:

people hate mesmers for same reason why they hated thieves pre patch: burst from stealth…. except mesmers can do it better now, while stacking dazes and actually living way longer than thieves….. and thieves got nerfed so they can’t keep mesmers in check.

That being said, enjoy the bandwagon before you get flooded by QQ and get hit by nerf bat

I would disagree… But standard GS shatter rotation says otherwise. Granted I’ve since moved to a different weapon set that’s more fun. However, the amount of QQ over something that’s been around since… Who knows is what’s sad. Everyone conveniently forgets lots of classes experienced a power creep and blame Mesmer for some l2p issues. Other than PU and CS. Those are different stories.

ResJudicator.7916:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Nah I just have a disease were when someone says PU and Lockdown in the same sentence I stop reading. Since you know the two can’t be taken at the same time.
That and whenever PU is taken in a PvP setting and people complain after the entire Mesmer community has pretty much reached a consensus something needs to be done about it is rather silly. If you’re fighting a PU Mesmer they gave up a lot of potential burst so it’s just a troll way to go in PvP. It’s nothing that’s necessarily OP.

You can run PU and lockdown now. Confounding Suggestions + PU.

Pre-patch, i.e. before buff to CS, you needed CI’s immobilize-on-interrupt to set up your bursts. Without CI, your opponent would only be dazed, and he’d still be able to dodge to avoid your follow-up burst. CI was one of the major traits that defined most lockdown builds.

But now that CS has been buffed to a 100% stun and moved to adept, you don’t really need CI. Dazing your opponent will stun him, which prevents him from dodging, which means you can usually land your burst.

Of course, CI still offers advantages, since you can’t stunbreak an immobilize, and the CI immobilize lasts longer. But you don’t really need it anymore to run a lockdown build. CS + Power Block is enough.

I suppose. But maybe it’s just me that I find going with CI and the immob is rather pointless even with CS.

Pepsi.8907:

Mesmer needs shaving on CS and PU and fix on Mender’s Purity and Blinding Dissipation
the problem with ele is burning, not ele
Rampage is an elite with telegraphed animation that are easy to avoid, l2kite

This guy gets it.
The one thing don’t agree with is ele. But I don’t have any problem with ele.
And burning really only gets you when it’s stacked high in a team by guards when the team is able to put on cover conditions.

Nah I just have a disease were when someone says PU and Lockdown in the same sentence I stop reading. Since you know the two can’t be taken at the same time.
That and whenever PU is taken in a PvP setting and people complain after the entire Mesmer community has pretty much reached a consensus something needs to be done about it is rather silly. If you’re fighting a PU Mesmer they gave up a lot of potential burst so it’s just a troll way to go in PvP. It’s nothing that’s necessarily OP.

Lol it’s nice that you have to make fun of others. But what you’re saying I’m doing you yourself have already done.
Saying something is OP because it has X and too much Y is rather lackluster.
Especially considering that you want to make it out like all that is in one build. It’s not.
I’m not sure how it would need to be spelled out to you. Other than PU needing to be reduced(which happens to be WvW related more than PVP because stealth can’t cap a point), CS needing a per target icd and Anet telling us if blind on shatter is working as intended or not nothing has changed THAT much from pre to post patch.
Mesmer has always had superior burst. It had to be set up and still does. Now though the traits for it allow capitalization on lack of skill use. Hence great synergy.

Lockdown offers superior CC. Pre patch only a handful of players used it. But the ones
that did played it extremely well. The difference is Powerblock is actually used now since the combined it and halting strike. Which made an otherwise useless GM usable. Therefore PB and CI have good synergy now. The only problem is CS procs a little too often and that’s acknowledge throughout the Mesmer community.

Neither of these build take condi clear. Shatter, especially full zerk, will run decoy blink and portal with MI.
A lockdown build has more flexibility but tends to stay with decoy blink and mantra of distraction with MI/Moa depending on the situation.
Therefore very weak to conditions.
Also, as these are the two most common build you’ll see we can address another issue. At this time marauder’s is a popular amulet for Mesmers to run since it offer vitality. A lot still run zerker however. The point is regardless of the two being ran there’s no toughness involved. Travelers, pack, stength, hoelbrak, etc all those runes provide is, except for travelers, a power increase with other offensive stat increases. Not defense.
So it would be very easy to CC a Mesmer, especially if you make them burn distortion, and burst them down.
PvP does happen to be a team fight, call target and focus fire.

TyPin.9860:

“Why do people hate mesmers?”

They don’t! Everyone loves Mesmers. They might believe to hate us, but that is only an illusion

Hahaha I wish! Seems like everyone has it out for some god like Mesmer build and wants the whole class nerfed. Ask to see what build they’re talking about they just list things that you could only have if you traited into every line.

States.6387:

I used to main my necro with a spectral tank build. But due to the changes in traits that completely removed this option i have lost all desire to even use my necro anymore. He doesnt seem as tanky as he used to be and if you do spec into a tank build the damage is a lot lower it seems like than the old tank builds.

What sucks even more is my alt i played was a ranger which is doing better than necro imo but also doing a lot worse than before.

I definitely chose the wrong classes to main / gear up in this game o_o

1) Well your post history says so mate
2) I didn’t say you couldn’t.
3) Based off what you say you play Mesmer counters them. Necro fairly hard when running a CI lockdown build and ranger when traited for reflects. But lockdown doesn’t run inspiration it’s generally choas/Dom/illusion. Shatter is generally Dom/dueling/illusion. So this high survivability is the same as it was pre patch.
Mesmer has ALWAYS had some of the, if not the best, in combat mobility so why wouldn’t they be able to disengage at will? Again that’s nothing new.
High damage isn’t something particularl to Mesmer. All classes have seen a power creep after the patch so why even complain about damage? Each build has different uses and they work well.
Just because they work well doesn’t mean they’re OP.

States.6387:

I agree mesmers seem very broken atm at least in pvp

High amounts of cc
High survivability
Ability to disengage at will
High damage

There is no trade off for any of the benefits the mesmer chooses to take, they can just be extremely efficient at all of them at the same time

So because your necro isn’t good any more(your opinion not mine) and you probably have a hard time fighting Mesmers on Ranger due to reflects the class is broken? Lol ok.

Curunen.8729:

DaShi.1368:

Wow. Blurred Frenzy now? There’s nothing about mesmers people won’t complain about. I’m becoming more and more convinced that mesmers are not the problem.

I know right.

Sword mainhand is already a shadow of its former self – I can’t believe complaints about blurred frenzy now…

Seems like people are using the excuse of a FEW mesmer trait issues post-patch, as well as game-wide damage issues (ie, the need to shave amulets and rebalance stats) that affect all classes, to unleash all their pent up hatred of mesmers over the last few years.

I bet there will be nonsensical complaints about iMage giving too much fury and Mirror Images giving too many clones, or something equally ridiculous next.

I know – how about signet of illusions recharging shatters! Oh wow, that’s broken – they can instantly burst after using that signet – nerf please! :o

I fully agree some mesmer specific trait combinations need to be looked at and dealt with (Confounding Suggestions, Blinding Dissipation, PU, free 15% phant damage…), but everything else existed pre-patch and is quite honestly a L2P issue.

I agree with everything but the free phant damage. I like to think of it as a trade off for how squishy the are against aoe.
However I did see someone complain about iWarlock doing too much damage against an opponent with 25 stacks of vuln and other condi’s lol.

But on the whole except for CS and PU, maybe blinding I don’t play with it much so I can’t say, everything else is good trait synergy and a l2p issue. People want to run zerker gear and stand still for full bursts(in my experience) and complain about being “1 shot”.
Sigh

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Amityel.5324:

people qqing about PU dunno what are truly powerful traits ;-) and PU isnt one of them

Have you even played PU since patch?

just because condi shatter is more broken than PU doesn’t mean PU isnt broken also

You are so right. Condi shatter is broken. Anet broke it when the nerfed MtD from 2 stacks to one stack. Other than that condi shatter is pretty much like it was pre-patch. Yeah it can stack more confusion but uh that’s easy enough to avoid high condi spikes from it.
As for PU. Visit the Mesmer forums. There’s been enough discussions on ways to make reduce it so it isn’t as strong you should be able to stop complaining. Same with Confounding Suggestions which is why lockdown is as strong as it is.

champ.7021:

I responded too soon to this thread.

Today I played against mesmers when not on mesmer, and I have to say i totally get why people think it is OP. Now this isnt to say that the qq about bursting is correct, because i think mesmer bursts are in the perfect place rn, however it’s more about PU and the blind on shatter traits.

I was playing warrior, some man mode zerker gs axe/shield and encountered two mesmers in stronghold both running the same build of staff gs blind on shatter and PU (well one was lockdown). They were honestly the least fun thing to fight against. They reminded me of cele ele and shoutbow, things that just would not die no matter how stupidly they were played. One of the mesmers actually landed some bursts on me, but the other one I fought for a full minute 1v1 and he never landed a full burst. I kept trying to kill him but somehow he managed to stay alive at around 25-50% health while i was just getting bored sitting with 90% health. The blind on shatter trait just makes mesmer a spammy class that just shatter everytime someone comes close to them instead of actually paying attention and dodging when it is right. He was also using mantra of distraction and still couldn’t burst on me, yet i couldn’t kill him and eventually had to disengage because it was just a stupid fight.

Now I main mesmer but im not that great and I don’t play pvp much anymore because it’s just too boring, so it may be an l2p issue, but I feel like some of the new traits are really dumbing down the class. Mesmer should be more of a risk and reward class. I mean Anet got rid of celestial (thank god) and then went ahead and added insane survival to some classes to basically make it the same thing, where people just won’t die. They also got rid of the whole phantasm death builds to prevent that kind of gameplay, and yet its the same thing I’m seeing from these blind on shatter mesmers.

And don’t get me started on the condi aids that is mesmer in wvw O.o.

I don’t think mesmer is that Op because they lose a lot when they run builds like this, but i do think these traits are not good for the class and will carry people just like celestial carried shoutbows and eles who just spammed their buttons.

So…. You’re complaining about playing against two obviously crap Mesmers that couldn’t burst a zerk warrior? And saying they op because you couldn’t kill them due to traits you think they were running… Wow

Chokolata.1870:

It is a matter of a single build doing too much. It has great damage, survival options and utility. Same issue with CeleEle. There is no real trade off or risk anymore.

Please please show me this build. I’d love to see it.

Nerf in the eyes of these forums means running something into the ground.
Balancing- shaving- traits like CS and PU would fix the problem.

nearlight.3064:
Morwath.9817:
If any class need ‘nerf’, it’s Mesmer actualy.
Mesmer only really needs a slight shave if anything. Right now I feel like its really well balanced, but a slightly higher and per target ICD to confounding suggestions would solve most of the percieved OPness.
Mesmer has too much of everything, while having it in one build, e.g.:
? Superior burst;
? Amazing CC (Mantra, Moa);
? Stealth;
? Teleports and Portal (which we could count as ‘turning the tables’ often);
? Invul (Distortion);
? Spammable Blinds;
? Boon removal…

So yeah. If I’m going for superior CC I’m not taking PU which mean decoy and mass invis(unless torch is taken) are my only stealths. But wait I’m running moa and MoD and blink and portal. Hmmm yeah I can’t seem to fit everything you listed into a build. Maybe if I gave up some CC for for stealths, went full zerk, but still wouldn’t work like you say.

Empty Sky.6354:

I think their strongest skill is Blurred Frenzy. Sure mantra’s are annoying,stealth can also be annyoing,but Blurred Frenzy is too OP in my opinion. If you took away distortion,that it gives them,alot of them,wouldn’t be so free to jump in at foe and try to burst him. I know,they had that skill before,but now with 3 full trait lines,some changes,etc. I think they should nerf Blurred Frenzy. And all it would take is to take away distortion. They can have short cd,as they do now.

So Blurred Frenzy doesn’t give distortion. Otherwise retal and condi wouldn’t eat Mesmers alive. It basically is a 2 second evade. Which isn’t all that powerful in the light you are trying to paint it. Useful? Yep. OP? No.

nearlight.3064:

Vapour.7348:

style.6173:

@OP:

You do realize that eles are currently the most OP class in PvP right?

FYI, lol you missed his memo:

Thanx for the feedback but I am not a noob and I do not need your advice!

Lol yeah this is funny. And yeah like that one guy said air is the poop traitline for cele ele, and if he actually did his research he’d know that fire and earth are much better.

Also when it comes down to class balance, I beleive that there are great builds on all classes. Strategy and rotations (from point to point, not skill rotations) and individual skill and teamfight strategy competence play a much bigger role in determining the outcome of a match than than the builds or classes themselves. Which is why I’m so sick of everyone spouting that necros are garbage tier when they’re very good in the hands of someone who knows the game and his class well.

I love to fight a well played necro. Especially one that has proper DS and utility managent.
But I’m honestly tired of seeing all the nerf this and that because I can’t beat it in a 1v1. Check the profession subforums and there’s enough discussion about how to deal with certain skill like PU on Mesmer that these threads are pointless and will lead to unnecessary nerfs. (We all know necro and Mesmer doesn’t need nerfs)

Jaetara.4075:

Mesmers are stronger than ever in this Patch.

As are a lot of classes. It’s not a class specific problem. Why act like it is? Mesmer can do the same now as it could before the patch just better and players that avoided playing shatter now play it because they can make mistakes and not have to have a team peel just for them.
Having problems beating a Mesmer 1v1? Then you’re doing something right(and wrong) since Mesmer tends to be an excellent dueling class. Conquest is a team match and if you focus the Mesmer like you should then you’ll have no problems. Call target works wonders.

rchu.8945:

Gern.2978:

I did say that maybe I just suck, so calm your nerd-rage glands people.

Shatter mesmers i don’t find all that OP, cause you just have to dodge their big shatters, it’s really the perma-stealth condi lockdown mesmers I find to be extremely difficult. Really, maybe it’s just the perma-stealth ability, that shouldn’t be possible by any class.

Even within the Mesmer community there’s a huge group advocating a nerf to PU (the trait that allow longer stealth duration), unfortunately Anet has made few big nerfs to Mesmers on traits that didnt need to be nerfed, so I am in the camp to keep PU as is, unless Anet revert those few nerfs to Mesmers.

I’d be fine with PU’s duration being shaved so long as they returned MtD back to 2 stacks per clone and chaotic dampening to 3-4%

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-largest-issues-of-profession-balance

Just going to leave this here. I tend to multi class and while there does seem to be some balancing still to go I’ve yet to see where all the OP’ness is coming from.
And Mesmer having great heals? Lol.

Morwath.9817:

@OP
We will stop, once Mesmer will be balanced.

Except people aren’t calling for balance. They’re calling for nerfs. The two aren’t interchangeable.

It’s good patch for Mesmer but WAY too much complaining is going to cause us to get nerfed into the ground because on simple traits like PU are trolling low tier PvP’ers and with the recent changes to stats damage is and I quote “too high”. But it’s comparable just about every other class. Heck I saw a guardian last night burst down two thieves instantly, it was hilarious.
And I hate OP. It’s tossed around so much like a hot potato without people thinking about what their actually complaining about.

To everyone- stop calling for nerfs. With the patch being live less than a week just because something seems powerful does not mean it will be once people have made adjustments.

Grouch- So far Mesmer nerfs have been made in haste seemingly without thought and as I’m sure you and other dev’s can tell it is making more than a couple people upset. Rightfully so I believe. Conditions as a whole right now are strong, there is no denying that. However, a lot of people complained about MtD because they saw golems get very high stacks of torment on them and panicked. The other thing was in the few PvP games I played with MtD the people I played against lacked condition clear, probably assuming conditions would be something they could shrug off like pre-patch only to be wrong. That is a “player” issue not trait issue. If you don’t slot utilities for condition clear or trait for it then you will have a bad day and that is what most people did. If anything a two second duration reduction would have been better, will be better.
As for the staff trait it is now useless in small group or solo play. You are unable to chain enough armor to make 2% an effective amount. Yes you could bring more ethereal fields, however, that defeats the purpose of what you are trying to do in promoting build diversity. If I’m stuck to using half my bar for one trait it’s not worth it. 3-4% would have been a much better number to try first.
I honestly believe you need to widen you testing pool before you let patches this big go out so knee jerk reactions do not happen, or implement the forum specialist on a class subforum and consult with you forum specialist before hand.

Thanks,
Jace. Unified Kingdom [KING]

Which sucks. They gave us some really interesting stuff and I hope alacrity really makes as big an impact as they say it will to be on pair with DH because I see the f5 being very situational.

Aesa.4819:

All skills the Dragon Hunter got seems really strong to me, yet the devs don’t seem to mind at all. Meanwhile Mesmers get “hmm this might be a little strong somewhere (uncalled for), let’s nerf it to half effectiveness or give it a 30s ICD!” on most of their skills>.>

Yeah I get the same feeling. But until we see our full trait line it will be hard to tell. But honestly it seems like DH is way stronger than Chrono with shorter CD’s.

Well they pretty much brought back RoJ from gw1 in the form of a trap.
One trap insta stacks 25 vuln and does an AoE reveal.
Not to mention some of the pulses Crit for(watched from my phone could be wrong) around 3-4k+

Err not gonna lie after seeing some of those traps Crit as high as they were I’m not laughing as much as I was before.
Hopefully dulfy will have a good summary and gw2 will have a vod up fairly quick for further investigation after they’ve finished.

Aye.8392:

I applaud the effort and cheer for the ban of the hacker.

But, the deletion of the characters by a dev is troubling. Banning/disabling the account and making it so that it is not able to be played on A-Net servers is great, but there should be some limiting boundries as to what an employee can do. In my mind deleting characters crosses that line. The server belongs to A-Net, it’s their property and they can disallow play by anyone they want at their sole discretion. But the characters belong to whoever bought the box; even if they can never activate the account again, the property is still theirs and shouldn’t be tampered with.

While I see where your coming from, and if it were Gaile or someone like that I might agree, Chris is the Game Security Lead. I see no problem with him, or someone in a position similar deleting accounts used for hacking and grieving of players.

It’s really all about knowing what your facing. I queue solo in ranked a lot so I have to know my rotations and what I can and can’t do as a shatter Mesmer. If you’re having problems against mez my name is in the signature give me a shout if you’re NA or pm me and we can set one thing up for EU. Once you get used to spotting the real Mesmer makes the fights easier.

i love how this sounds. But I fear people are going to skip the “long cool downs” and “requires skillful manipulation of cool downs” and go straight to oh merr gergghhddd a Mesmer can reset a fight by shattering? It has AoE daze AND invuln. Yeah I hear it now the cries of scrubs

While I get where you’re coming from the thing to remember is that EVERY class is getting changes and a lot of these number are just place holders. They admitted that themselves. So let’s not get the OP train started so soon please.
Plus they’re finally doing something positive to Mesmers instead of nerfing everything in sight because it’s op(really though it’s because people are to lazy to roll a Mesmer and l2p) So let’s see what happens with the changes they’re proposing then ask for changes.
Like making phantasm vs AoE a more favorable matchup. That’s something to write about.