Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

People aren’t complaining because mirage isn’t chrono. People are complaining because there’s almost nothing that mirage can do that chrono can’t do better…and it’s chrono.

You know I think we could sit here for years and try and explain that fact but you’ll still have the people that think Anet hasn’t done wrong.

The fact you admit it needs works is what should stick out to you the most. Yes, we know it’s not Chrono, however, why should anyone switch to Mirage from Chrono or core Mesmer when it does NOTHING better than thos two?
I also shouldn’t have to burn my cd’s like blurred frenzy to evade something like AoE when dodging backwards or side ways would suffice. On top of that dodges are a defensive ability, or should be. We only have two dodges that we have to decide whether to use offensively or defensively. That’s a horrible choice to have to make. At least DD has three to use when they play condi spam.
You can play chrono similar to base Mesmer. That’s what’s so good about it. You can play condi or power burst with Chrono in PvP/WvW and then go to support in PvE. Mirage on the other hand is no better off than core Mesmer. Why should I play Mirage when I can run PU condi Mesmer and play the exact same as Mirage? There’s less time and effort to do so.
So you didn’t like Chrono, I hate it. But it at least is an ELITE spec. Mirage is no where near being an elite spec and that’s the problem probably 95% of the people have with it.

Hmm you do realize this is Anet you are referring too. Not making sense makes sense to them.

Daishi.6027:

I share a lot of the same sentiments, especially with 5, 9, and 10.

I am a bit worried it will go complacently unchanged in all honesty, but that’s not too much of a deterrent for me.

I feel we could use a little more doge, or at least safer and more impactful ambushes depending on the weapon. Along with traits that could offer a bit more (self-deception, and Shards of glass in particular. Also if it wasn’t for Scepter, I’d be in the camp saying Ambushes should be baseline to mirage.)

But Ambush should be baseline. Even scepter isn’t great. It’s better o doubt but it’s easily interrupted. For a spec that’s supposed to deceive the opponent wouldn’t it make sense to have your clones do the same thing you do? I shouldn’t have to trait for it. But there in lies the problem with Mirage. Mesmer at its core is meant to deceive, Mirage doesn’t truly build on that at all. In fact, in on par with core condi but doesn’t feel like an elite spec. Chrono does, weaver although kind of clunky with the cd on attunement swapping, Spellbreaker, Scourge, and Soulbeast all change the way the class operates. Mirage… doesn’t do anything other than give you an inferior main hand, another way to safe stomp, and some wacky mirrors that takes to long to get to. And before you say blink or jaunt, no. I shouldn’t have to burn an elite just to use what’s supposed to be part of the class mechanic. I don’t care what you say it’s poor design and shows lack of dev interest. The elite could have something cool like it creates multiple illusions to break target deal damage with a big CD. Anything other than an underpowered, short range teleport.

Windwalker.7421:

I think one “take-away” message for Anet should be to realize that all the complaints about Mirage show that there was/is a great interest in the Elite!

Even if people’s (probably unrealistic) expectations weren’t met during their BETA weekend experience, and they’re voicing that concern in often overwhelmingly negative posts on a fairly anonymous forum, the fact is there is a ton of interest in Mirage and we’re all very excited!

We want to see this Elite succeed, and we see it’s potential, but we are all a bit mortified by the gaping deficiencies we encountered over the weekend. Truth be told, I think Anet purposely tuned many aspects of Mirage way down —possibly even knee jerk after that silly video proclaimed Mirage to be grossly over-tuned based on Golem testing-- to build it up post Beta.

Let’s be honest, this Elite has a loy of potential to be OPd, and many of the suggestions for “improvements” I’ve seen on this board the past couple of days are clearly OPd! Many many more, however, are spot on and I still have enough trust in Anet as a “for profit” company that wants to sell copies of the expansion, to believe there will be MUCH tuning coming up.

Remember DH in the last beta weekend before HoT? OMG! People were lighting up the Guardian boards proclaiming it’s uselessness, the theme not fitting Guardians, and that it was the worst of the Elite’s etc! Sounds familiar? It took ONE single patch to change that to screams and cries about OP! OP! OP! WAH! (25x Vulnerability trap? lol!) Trap DH went on to rule low-to-mid scale PvP for a large part of the past 2 years…so yeah I’m optimistic that Mirage will turn out to be a great Elite for an alternate play-style.

That is not to say it will be an Elite for everyone! I believe it’s pretty clearly a Thief-like spec and will simply not grant the utility we’re accustomed to from a Mesmer/Chrono.

I fully expect that a Mirage will turn out to be a high mobility, high survivability (from a combination of deception and stealth), and a strong sustained single-target condie burst class. (yeah that’s a bit of an oxy-moron…I mean a strong condie burst that can be repeated often enough to overwhelm single targets very quickly.)

Also I have to say, I feel that Power Mirage is in a lot better shape than people are making it out to be. You can do some pretty crazy CC->Bursts with Dom/Duel/Mirage and MH Sword. Lastly, as much as GS Ambush sucks, the ability to Mirage Cloak->Mirror Blade someone in the face without taking damage is not exactly bad either. (Generating 2 clones with DE, and shatter in the face.)

I’m also not downplaying the MANY deficiencies of Mirage, but I do believe there is time and will for Anet to tune this thing to be a pretty awesome elite!

I think the big thing to remember is that this wasn’t a beta weekend were they wanted input. It was a Demo to let us get hyped over what is going to be released. With only a month till release I highly doubt we will see any big changes due to how very little time is left.
One of the main complaints I’m seeing is the fact the spec, other than changing the dodge mechanic, bring nothing that would make someone choose it over core condi or the couple Chrono builds. Essentially Mirage is just a different way to play core condi that isn’t any better. Until they fix the root of the problem then… Mirage will suck

GeorgeisLucas.5340:

Frostball.9108:

I dont play wvw

This human cannot be trusted! </traitor>.

But hang on! That’s not him it’s just a Mirage it can’t be Frostball because he’s right and we’re all just peasants that know no better.

Levetty.1279:

I disagree with everything you said. The axe is terrible, Mirage Cloak is a worse dodge for no reason, the theme is terrible and it provides nothing new to Mesmer. Elusive duelist is what core Mesmer is. Hell the description for Mesmer on the character creator even refers to Mirages.

Astralaria looks nice though, I just wish Mirage gave me a reason to use it (or nevermore).

Aww Lev why do you have to burst their bubble? They were just trying to find what little good there is in this waste of an elite spec.

Xillllix.3485:

When they reduced the build variety from 5 lines to 3 lines they really destroyed the best potential for gameplay.

I told them then and they said “it’s too soon to tell”, but it was obvious that they instantly broke variety and balance.

This so much. If they had just made a 6th slot for the elite spec and left you with enough points to fill three trait lines the build diversity would be through the roof right now. Anyone could see that going in except Anet. But we won’t go back to that because Anet isn’t good about saying they messed up

Skuzz.6580:

Ooh wait, you are all still stuck in PvP land.. talking about looking at things from a wider perspective.

If you think Mirage does not include unique things then perhaps thats where things have gone bad for you guys, i’m not judging, i’m just saying.

Also about the clones thing.. Mirage can have 3 clones up after a shatter within 1-2 seconds.

Sure Mirage CAN have them up. Doesn’t mean it will or that the clones are guaranteed to survive. This is what kills me, just because you can do something against a golem or complete noob doesn’t mean it’s going to work in PvP or WvW. Mirage is junk in large scale WvW because the mechanic it works off of fails miserably in the face of AoE. That’s the entire problem with illusions. Mesmer get taken in WvW for veil, portal and boom share not dps.
Now my post actually covers all the game modes not just PvP. Increasing the dps to ensure its competitive with eles, warriors and guards is why I said it needed to do a minimum of high 30-40k damage. Otherwise why take it over Chrono and at this point why take Chrono if Rev and Guard can provide the relevant buffs?
The shatter mechanic and illusions are inherently flawed in all game modes. Mes dps is based on having all phantasms up but yet we are supposed to shatter? It needs to be one or the other. Anet stated we were supposed to shatter hence the removal of clone death traits. Now with Mirage it’s… based on clones doing the work yet again. Ambush attacks are where your meant to do your damage. That’s cool and all but against the supposed design of Mesmer.

I’m not saying that Mirage isn’t “unique”. It is and there are some things that I like. One being the dodge mechanic. It’s weird and limits you in some aspects but it’s cool. On the other hand Mirage Mirrors, axe, clunky ambush attacks are all jokes. Your opinion may be different but the vast majority of the people I’ve seen here, on Reddit, and in game all lean towards the spec is a joke. Sure some people will like it but it’s still currently sub par and nothing that makes it “unique” will change that.

Levetty.1279:

If nothing else this thread shows why people have low opinions of the PvP crowd.

Eh to say PvP crowd is too general. Low opinions of people who think the know everything and believe they are better than everyone else because they have more time to play the game than others? Yes

Well with Chrono at least I can survive AND kill people. I had the pleasure of fighting a Mirage 1v1 with my Menders Chrono. They didn’t last long at all. The thing with Chrono that makes it so good is the fact it fixes problems that core mesmer had. Good team support, a way to help ensure shatters get to target, a good CD management ability, etc.

Now, Mirage should have been able to stand with Chrono but it can’t. To fix this it needs to be able to-
increase personal dps to the high 30-40k damage range since it doesn’t offer much team support.
Ensure shatters have a probability to hit by blinking them to target(differs from super speed and fits with Mirage)
Or change shatter mechanic so that instead of shatters it causes target to break on you and transfer to illusions, causes illusions(not just clones) to use Ambush attacks, makes it were all illusions must be killed before damage is done to you, etc
Buff illusion health and armor to core Mesmer. This would allow more specs to become viable as the game has outpaced illusion health by… way too much. Also, implementing a 90% damage reduction against nontargeted illusions is also viable but both should go hand in hand.
That’s just a few things that would make Mirage competitive but doubt we’ll see them.

Curunen.8729:

holly lyn.2173:

Curunen.8729:

It’s a buff in most ways but a nerf to condition removal on one skill.

The extra burning is great, the flat 20% cooldown is really great.

The loss of condition removal on iMage when traited is… not such a big issue but it would have been nice to have it. Prestige has it built in as standard now so doesn’t change anything.

the change/nerf was that the trait used to have a reduced cool down when in stealth, a 1.5sec. reduction I believe, now its a flat 20%. It makes a huge diffence on my Crono. condi. build in WvW. On the surface the change seems small but it makes a big difference for your survivability in fights, even though the average CD difference is only about 5-9secs. But that is a LONG time in a battle.

If PU (I’m assuming – correct me if I’m wrong) and using several stealths, sure the contextual cooldown reduction is better.

But for torch on its own and in any build that does not spend a significant amount of time in stealth (ie maybe only using one stealth utility and maybe mass invis, without PU) the flat cooldown is much better. In any case high alacrity uptime refreshes traited torch very quickly if maximising shatters and using improved alacrity (given it is better than illusionary reversion now).

Personally in terms of survivability/sustain I’d rather see improvements in other areas rather than incentivising spending long times in stealth which is why I welcome the change to the pledge.

Yeah cause long duration stealths isn’t conductive for a good game. There’s a reason so much reveal is being introduced into the game. Everyone has complained for years about perms stealth thief and PU Mesmer because it isn’t fun to fight against. Period. So traps with reveal, Rev reveal, engi and ranger reveal, etc are all coming into full effect due to the constant stream of “stealth has no counter play”. Now for me I agree, the flat recharge rate is better. I don’t run PU anymore, rather if I’m running chaos I have BD slotted. I hit harder and have the ability to stand toe to toe with most specs I encounter because of constant stab and might stacking. Also in WvW I only run two stealths now anyway, decoy and mass invis. I can do this because I’m stacking more Vit and Toughness and making up the difference of precision and power with might stacks and food.

Except for Mirage to be viable you need a clone buff more than you do a phantasm buff. Anet should implement the AoE damage reduction to all illusions in all game modes and that alone would open up Mirage to be some what useful. I say some what because it still have inherent problems outside of that.

But you have an attack animation that goes with it. Null field is near enough instant to cast, as is MoR. I guess, for me, I would want my cleanse cast as quickly as possible to prevent a lucky interupt.

Hmm yeah I agree with that. But if you turned it into an ammunition based spec wouldn’t you get rid of the aftercast to make it instacast?

I could get behind this although I would like to see 15 second recharge with the condi heavy classes we seem to be getting.
Speaking of recharge does alacrity affect the ammunition system?

Frostball.9108:

Dondagora.9645:

Frostball.9108:

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

Also id like to mention that my current build is only the strongest build i have yet to see myself. Im not saying it is the strongest build possible or it is what everyone will play in the future. While my build might be strong, we have only had a few days to look at these things and its most likely that its possible to even make a much better mirage build.

My main point is that in the games current state it will be a better option than chronomancer.

It’s not like gw2 is a complex game with complex mechanical interactions. There’s not that many ways to build a character, especially with the obvious restrictions of being a condie build that bursts without relying on clones. You can burst with shatters, you can burst with weapon skills, you can burst with ambush skills. That’s literally it. All of those methods have downsides, and chrono is far better at shatter bursting.

I think you’re just afraid to post the build because then people would see how not impressive the burst actually is. There’s no shame in being wrong you know, it’s ok.

Thats why im surprised people have so much trouble finding mirage any good. Whats the difference between streaming the build and posting the build?

Simple. By withholding the build here and now, for whatever stupid reason you can muster, you’re preventing us from talking intelligently with you about why you think the way you do. You’re essentially the same as a person who goes “this thing is 100% true. I have evidence, but, y’know, I won’t show it to you. Just take my word, it’s very compelling.” So don’t blame us for not trusting you, but we don’t trust you. Give us the build or stop talking about it. Those are your rational options.

Its alright not to trust me but its stupid not to try to see the potential in something and give it more than one go before you say its bad. Ill be streaming the build after pof release.

LOL are you serious? So you want to wait a month before showing whatever build it is you have? Why? Because you don’t want someone pointing out that the people you’re supposedly mass murdering with whatever build you’re using have no idea how to play the game/PvP because a large majority of the people right now are PvE people playing the specs and therefore proves you wrong?

Frostball.9108:

Also id like to mention that my current build is only the strongest build i have yet to see myself. Im not saying it is the strongest build possible or it is what everyone will play in the future. While my build might be strong, we have only had a few days to look at these things and its most likely that its possible to even make a much better mirage build.

My main point is that in the games current state it will be a better option than chronomancer.

See this is the cool thing. Your opinion is that you have the best build ever and the spec is so great and that you know it’s the truth because you were a pro pvp’er. The thing with opinions is, just like kittens, everyone has ‘em. Your contemporary has already disagreed with you. He says that Chrono will be the better choice. Now Helseth has quite the abrasive personality at times but I have to agree with him on this. Then when Fay, probably one of the most knowledgeable people I know on anything Mesmer, agrees and my conclusions are similar as is the vast majority of the people I’ve talk with about the spec I’m going to lean toward the spec has very glaring problems and isn’t the wonder you make it out to be.
Not only that but most of the people here have pointed out the problems being seen with the spec and your response boils down to essentially " I was a pro pvp’er and I’m right not you" really kills anything you try and tell me.

Abelisk.4527:

I have to agree with Frostball. I have fallen in love with Mirage and it’s disheartening to see a lot of people not enjoying the playstyle. I’m still tweaking my build constantly.

It’s not the play style that people don’t like I think per say. It’s the fact that half the stuff doesn’t work, have synergy with existing traits, etc.

Axe was a horrible choice for a main hand when the community had been asking for pistol, focus, and dagger. All potentially would have made for a better mainhand. Heck Pistol would be great because it’s a condi spec. But axe sucks. The clunky, pathing doesn’t work well, and damage is to low range to short. Dodges are having to be used offensively for burst, that’s completely against the inherent mechanics. Then you have the issue it’s slow. Chrono fixed that but now you’re back to travelers rune or what not for speed. This leads to the fact Mirage mirrors tend to spawn where you aren’t at and then you have to walk to them or burn blink/jaunt to use them.

Like I said, I like the idea and the potential play style. Anet Judy didn’t do it justice.

Frostball.9108:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Frostball.9108:

musu.9205:

Frostball.9108:

Refia Montes.3205:

Frostball.9108:

Levetty.1279:

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

Except Condi Chrono can do that too. With Moa, CS split condi burst it’s possible.

I said without trouble. And with chrono youre not going to be able to survive nearly as well.

for condi burst we could agree , but clone still dies easily for that happens , and defense from mirage is worse than chrono .

maybe you could link us your build ?

Clones dying easily doesnt matter, this is a burst build that doesnt rely on clones being alive for you. The defense for mirage can be upped as well which makes it have more defense and arguably still more damage than chrono. However i think the burst version is much better.

It’s a butst build… centered around clone ambush. Clones dying easily DOES matter quite a bit actually. Everything mirage can do I can do better on Chrono. Sadly Mirage just wasn’t fleshed out like it should have been. Axe is clunky and does poor damage, ambush skills should be baseline, the concept of mirage mirrors is a joke when they span far away with a short time frame to get to them. Can you get ridiculous stacks? Sure on a golem or a noob that stands still in hotjoin. Other than that the apex needs a fairly extensive rework

No, its not. If you cant do anything better on mirage you should look into getting some new build ideas going or just getting used to the playstyle.

Then please enlighten me on this wonderful build that you’re using and tell me how I’m playing it wrong. Because right now Mirage is good for a gimmick build and that’s just about it. It’s a cool idea don’t get me wrong, however, it’s a one trick pony.

Frostball.9108:

musu.9205:

Frostball.9108:

Refia Montes.3205:

Frostball.9108:

Levetty.1279:

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

Except Condi Chrono can do that too. With Moa, CS split condi burst it’s possible.

I said without trouble. And with chrono youre not going to be able to survive nearly as well.

for condi burst we could agree , but clone still dies easily for that happens , and defense from mirage is worse than chrono .

maybe you could link us your build ?

Clones dying easily doesnt matter, this is a burst build that doesnt rely on clones being alive for you. The defense for mirage can be upped as well which makes it have more defense and arguably still more damage than chrono. However i think the burst version is much better.

It’s a butst build… centered around clone ambush. Clones dying easily DOES matter quite a bit actually. Everything mirage can do I can do better on Chrono. Sadly Mirage just wasn’t fleshed out like it should have been. Axe is clunky and does poor damage, ambush skills should be baseline, the concept of mirage mirrors is a joke when they span far away with a short time frame to get to them. Can you get ridiculous stacks? Sure on a golem or a noob that stands still in hotjoin. Other than that the apex needs a fairly extensive rework

Robert Gee.9246:

June 23rd Update

“The skill-use damage will also now trigger when the affected target is interrupted during skill activation.”

Stay and chat a while!

Lawton Campbell.8517:

JordanJD.3209:

Lawton Campbell.8517:

Thanks to a sudden influx of taco donations, the APIs have been turned back on.

After some investigation, it seems like the APIs were not the root cause of the underlying issues.

Awesome, can I become a developer for Anet?

We’re hiring!

Since WA is on the other side of the States can I consult from home? Would do for free too for the experience of working with a development team. Kind of like hey here’s a bug/something that needs balanced this can be done to fix it.

Short answer- yes they do.
What you’re seeing is a lot of people playing theif that aren’t… Well they aren’t good. A good thief will generally beat or stalemate an equally skilled Mesmer. A great thief will wreck a mes all day long. A bad thief on the other hand will run P/P and use 2 Unloads in a row with 15 stacks of confusion or face tank a gs 2 MW burst.

apharma.3741:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Now Ross you know that walking up behind someone in stealth and landing 6-8k backstabs is underpowered for how hard it is

From what I’ve read coming out of the Thief forum for the last 3 years, yes, yes it is the single most hardest thing to do EVER.

I’m afraid you’re all hilariously, laughably wrong, backstab usually only does 3k max nowadays.

Never mind the fact that is on a clerics stat auramancer with protection….

While I know that was an overstatement I do think you missed the point. Never mind the fact that I have land 4-6k backstabs recently but it was on zerker amulet and not mad’s.
You can’t sit there and tell me that having bas venom up, stealth, steal and back stab is harder than getting 3 illusions up for a MW, or try for a double MW using CS and knowing that if you screw up you blew CS, your waiting 10 seconds for MW now not to the fact if you’ve screwed up you’re having blow distortion etc to escape the rampant AoE in game now.

It’s the blind plus confusion stacks that proc on blind application that are beneficial. And I didn’t see scepter equipped must have missed that or else I’d say Mal all the way.
To me MoF is good, but doesn’t compete with the other two for condi builds if using scepter or shield

Now Ross you know that walking up behind someone in stealth and landing 6-8k backstabs is underpowered for how hard it it

Have you thought about using ineptitude instead of the second GM in Illsions? You’re running sword and shield so you have access to enough blocks and evades to make it worth while potentially.
As for the armor I tend to run a Dire Rabid mix. To me the healing stat on Cele is going to be wasted and with the dire I can survive 1v3’s quite well. Will I stomp them? Maybe not if they’re organized but I can harass to no end and that’s fun XD

Lots of kiting normally. If I’m playing condi then I bait scepter block and load them up with condi’s while using null field to strip resistance.
Power- well it’s not a fight I chose to go into. Same principle, kite, bait dodge rolls and immunes.

paShadoWn.5723:

I have been playing sPvP all day and my cloth armour is clearly shredded because i can feel people sucking me by passing by. Well its a lvl5 sPvP vendor gear so i will just re-buy it but what would i do when i don expensive stuff?

So if I understand correctly by what I highlighted you’ve been doing PvP and yeah…. Your gear doesn’t mean jack in there so long as your actually wearing it since it’s all based off the amulet and rune you chose from the PvP build menu.
Otherwise, go to PvE land and get it repaired at an anvil

Agemnon.4608:

Cynz.9437:

Fun fact, people still blame thieves for losses regardless how good thief was.

I can play any other class like crap, nobody says a word. Go on thief? Lose a match for w/e reason? Yep, totally my fault.

Also, watched a lot of enemy teams bashing their thief even though thief did fine and it was enemy necro that was feeding us kills and points.

I find so much funny about that, like I cry laughing when a thief wins his duels against even dragonhunters and revenants, Finishing Blow the ele or druid, decaps forcing enemies to spread out, but the friendly dragonhunter dies 1v1 on far more than once to the same druid or mesmer while others fight on roads constantly. The loss is somehow the thief’s fault. If only the thief died in the big cleaves in skirmishes in obscure parts of the map would he be forgiven for the loss.

Hmm it’s actually probably simple. People actually see the ranger or DH dying, fighting etc.
But if the thief is good(your Mileage may vary of course) then you shouldn’t see s/he dying. They should have backcapping and +1’ing, once done leave. Not try and tank through a mid fight or 1v1 something tanky. They can of course, especially if they win, however taking far against a Warrior isn’t really a thief job imo.

So what it boils down to is visibility. A good thief you won’t see dying as much because they’ll be busy doing other things while everyone else dies.

FrownyClown.8402:

Thief is fine apart from the perma evade d/d build. The build is much stronger with daredevil.

On a side note, I am finding this meta even more condi-centric than last.

That because warrior got buffed and now everyone is running it as fotm it seems like. I’m surprised whenever I DONT have a warrior on my team.

And I don’t have a problem with thieves. The bad ones die, the good ones reset and decap else where then come back after watching me blow my CD’s

I think the problem is that thief was meta for so long to counter zerk builds like Mesmer( which is why until HoT you only had a handful play competitively) and once HoT landed and the bunker meta started thief was obsolete due to way to much sustain. Season 2 had a more condi centric meta with Merc amulet, which still had high sustain, so again no theif.
So now, after the removal of a lot of high sustain amulets( yes you still have some and some builds offer high sustain when played right) thief is having a come back. That means People have to relearn how to fight them and stealth again. Sure, you had Mesmer meta but season 1 was bunker and had no need for stealth and neither did season 2 condi. And unless you want to count trapper rune gaurd(so annoying but seriously? Lame) or engi stealth(ha I can see you mr gyro) then there’s been no good stealth using class in PvP. Does staff thief use a lot of stealth? No, but that doesn’t people won’t confuse it with some other build.

Agemnon.4608:

The balancing is tough enough and powercreep insane enough with just three utilities. If you have a 4v4 at mid that’s four extra utility skills per side, big instant AoE interrupt, AoE CC, etc., and too many classes can do too much as it is.

Lol, I love how or Mes, you struggled (read failed) to find a good fourth utility for Mesmer.

What’s wrong with Well of Precog? The chill and then the alacrity after effect sounds powerful if timed and placed properly. Any friendly Tempest in the field can charge attunements faster while hostile Tempests would take longer to recharge due to the chill.

Tempest are by far the best healing support in the game

That’s true, but imagine taking Eye of the Storm with Flash Freeze, Lightning Flash, and Aftershock? It would be even better. Too good in fact. Great disengage plus two aurashare utilities, one that casts chill and the other reflecting projectiles. As it is now however you need to make a choice based on the opposing comp: take Aftershock for the reflect or if you don’t notice enough projectile hate in the other comp to justify it take Flash Freeze. With four utility slots one could simply take both with swapping Aftershock out for Feel the Burn.

What’s wrong with it is that you just proved, again, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Much like the majority of the people on the forums who don’t like Mesmer, thief or whatever.
Well of Precognition doesn’t grant chill it’s aegis. And it used to be invuln, then blur, now it’s in the current state of aegis. And guess what? Maybe 3 people use it. Anet trashed the skill.

Now, I think the OP has a decent idea as it could allow classes to take condi utility rather than have to trait for it, open up different builds whatever. But I think that before we look at that we need to actually fix balance issues with the game and things with other aspects of the game.

Crowley.8761:

Use the inspiration traitline as mentioned above since you get the restorative illusions as well as mender’s purity. So every shatter removes condi, every heal removes condi. For both you and your team.

If you’re up against a condi-heavy team then depending on the situation you may have to just spam shatters to get condis off you without leaving any time to build phantas/clones for the full effects.

And don’t listen to these angry naysayers, you can play power shatter just fine, but try to focus on the power bit more than the shatter bit since it’s extremely unreliable against people that notice when your clones start homing in and dodge.

Edit: Check out this dude playing power with an F2P account https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-IACGTF3gw

Not to be that guy but… Reread the OP. He’s talking about WvW not PvP which is what that video is about. Two completely different animals due to armor, rune, and food availability. So unless he’s running in an organized group(don’t think so) then condi is best. No angry naysaying just the facts.

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Azukas.1426:

Mesmer builds only mate

Killshot Mesmer is a well established and long standing accepted build, particularly within this community.

Jump ship if ya want idc. Just please stay on topic.

Thanks in advance

He is on topic though. If have to go back and look but there have been a couple threads that the Mesmer community, especially OMFG, had advocated the use of Killshot Mesmer. I’ve tried it before and it works very well, as advertised.

On the other hand, the sky is falling Azuka.

Although you’re at a disadvantage in most cases it is possible to be competitive without it.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Video-Legend-with-F2P-Mesmer
The video is actually worth the time to watch due to the OP taking the time to edit it and make it enjoyable, but the main takeaway is the fact he made legend using a f2p power shatter Mesmer.
So regardless what anyone else says, it’s possible to play ranked with core Mesmer. But is it advisable? Not really.

After the June patch it was still a viable build. You went from seeing 5 to none when Anet decided it was wise to remove Celestial from PvP really.

Ross Biddle.2367:

@Jace
D/D ele was brokenly OP. The single most broken build in GW2 history relative to its time, and for the longest standing period of time.

Please, argue your way out of this fact. I’d love to see it XD

Before or after the June patch? Prior to the June patch I would agree with you. However, after the June patch with all the nerfs(reduction in burn/blind application,etc) that happened to D/D it wasn’t as broken. Could it still be extremely strong? Of course, but it wasn’t stupid broken. However, this is my opinion. And as we all know opinions are like kittens. Everyone has one.

Yeah unless of course hr is confusing traited blink for iLeap. But then that means taking Chaos and that won’t work too well. It would work but it would be a handicap

Sorry not sitting in front of my computer. Stilquestion remains. When did that reflect anything?

Since when did blurred frenzy reflect conditions?

Celine.6857:

I would agree engi over Tempest. It makes me want to rock in a small corner the amount of people who don’t understand how to utilize me properly when playing in solo queue as an ele. I main auramancer in PvP with renewal sigil and the number of people who run off points ignoring my heals, run out of my water bubble, completely miss the point that I can keep them alive in any way. The list, does, go on. It’s a nightmare.

But this post says it all. NONE of us should feel the need to play certain builds to carry a team. You may as well be 1v5 LOL … I nodded to all your points as to what (shockingly) people do and don’t do in matches.

I felt that way the other day… Was 1v3 at home while my team was 4 capping far. That was two day ago I think. Still trying to figure out how they thought it was s good idea for all of them to stand on far while I’m trying to defend the only point we had.

But in reference to the OP’s post… Druid or engi would be a good choice. If you had a friend you could queue with the ele all the way and the two of you could effectively hold the point by communicating prior to the match( speaking of which does no one read chat? If I say I’ll go home why does everyone rush home forcing me to take mid by myself?)

You probably have a problem with Warrior because of their ability to stack high durations of Resistance and the fact longbow burst is bugged and cleanses 6 conditions atm. So what I do is again, swap Signet of Illusions for Null Field and once you start noticing the have resistance strip it from them. Then you force them to play more defensive and will be easier from there. You also have to watch out for their interupts but they are fairly obvious.
As for necro, you want to strip to Stab so you can interupt their heal with f3 and do a lot of kiting. If they run rise then you tend to have a lot of minion AI to deal with but focusing on the necro will kill the minions. Key thing with them is avoid standing in melee. Melee plus reaper shroud is s bad day.
There isn’t anything wrong with your build, but you just need to watch for those things.

What build do you run exactly?
I run Sage amulet and am experimenting with my rune currently but 1v1’s are the least of my problems. But I’ve also started taking Null field to strip the Resistance off of Warriors and stab off necro’s so I can interupt them. The only time I have problems is when I start having to carry my team by 1v3’ing. Then it’s not fun. But ice successfully 1v2’ed two warriors on point and two necro’s. So it’s possible.

Many classes suffer from lack of diversity which is rather stupid. There is not, in my mind, any good reason for every class to have multiple working builds for high level play. But you encounter the problem of a certain company not being able to balance the game and a fairly large section of the community that adamantly refuses to adapt. If the build isn’t exactly like it is on metabattle down to the elite skill they won’t play it because it isn’t meta. But when they get beat by something it’s OP. Perfect example of this is Condi Warrior vs Condi Mesmer. I’ve recently seen a few Mesmer players say that condi warrior is so OP it needs nerfed etc. But they never thought about swapping out SoI for Null Field to have a boon strip because it isn’t meta. Blew their mind. Is warrior bugged at the moment? Absolutely. Is it Overpowered? No, because simply stripping the resistance forces them to play defense and from there it’s all downhill.

Now, that’s just a current issue. We’ve all seen how people react to Chromobunk, turret engi(I mean seriously just rotate), D/D Cele ele( doesn’t exist in PvP anymore because it was too OP. Never had a problem with it personally) hambow, list goes on. Oh and we can’t forget the outrage at the longbow buff ranger got a while back that had everyone QQ’ing about being one shot by rapid fire. I mean, you know makes perfect sense for you to eat a full rapid fire to the face and claim it’s OP right? Even today you still hear people complain about that but they’ve moved more towards pets now.

All those things have two things in common. First, people who wouldn’t L2P cried they loudest and hardest on the forums. D/D was over tuned no doubt about it but it didn’t deserve what happened to it. Nor did chronobunk. Second was the fact Anet went way overboard on nerfing the majority of those builds. I only see turrets in hot join when testing new amulets and trait combos and it’s still as predictable now as it was them. Don’t see any d/d ele’s.

So, at this point I don’t know what can/will be done. Personally, I feel like all the removed amulets and runes should be added back, a buff to the core specs, a fix to the long standing issues all classes have(Mesmer is up to how many pages of bugs?), reduce the AoE/CC spamfest that HoT brought with it and make something that actually requires a little thought. Who knows, you might have a ESL with two teams with two completely different team comps at that point. And since PvP is their focus( stupid I know) then at some point over game modes should benefit through the buffs for diversity

Dahkeus.8243:

Jace al Thor.6745:

Ithilwen.1529:

The issue I’m having with Warriors generally right now is that they seem to have near permanent condition immunity or a very rapid cleanse. Some seem to be able to just about ignore condition damage.

I don’t play warrior, so don’t know the mechanics. Something is happening though that’s is making some warriors effectively immune to conditions.

It depends on your build but I’ve been taking null field, stacking a lot of condi’s on them and using null field to strip the Resistance and Might they’ve built up. So what happens is they tend to not pay attention to the fact they have no more resistance and lose half their health. Then a couple well times scepter blocks and shatters have them on the ground. And oddly enough I’ve done this in melee range. Granted that’s for 1v1’s, if you’re on point with warrior plus necro’s kiting is king, but so is stripping the resistance.

That’s smart.

Unlike some if I find there’s a problem I work around it instead of saying its OP(not you Ith but you can understand what I’m saying I’m sure)
Granted, taking null field means no Signet of Illusions but I’m ok with that. You could also run AT but meh not worth it imo. And disenchanter will be shattered/cleaved too quickly. So you either take null field, melee with sword(you could die), GS 3 from range(is iffy on what it will remove) and trait for Dom’s boon removal on shatter so you give up Insp( our main source of condi removal) I’ll live with taking null field

Josh XT.6053:

Vieux P.1238:

back to the HOLE point.. despite mesmers still efficient under the hands of a skill player, the HOLE nerfs thing…., is just stupid. Can’t wait till we get the next best mmo. Or it’s back to WoW.

“Hole”, everyone. Not “whole” …. Your credibility just keeps fading away.

You can’t call anything else stupid while using the wrong word entirely. Have fun in WoW.

Inb4 another infraction for telling the truth.

I’m confused. Are you saying the definition for “hole” is everyone or that “whole” has the definition of everyone?
Because the definition of “hole” is more in line with an opening in the ground. Or a missing section.
“Whole” has a definition more in line with a group of people. Or parts of a thing.

http://grammarist.com/homophones/hole-vs-whole/

I’m only curious because you’re trying to correct him but I believe you are wrong as well. And if you can’t even look up the grammatical differences between two words why would I believe you can hit a target with 5k mind wracks?

Ithilwen.1529:

The issue I’m having with Warriors generally right now is that they seem to have near permanent condition immunity or a very rapid cleanse. Some seem to be able to just about ignore condition damage.

I don’t play warrior, so don’t know the mechanics. Something is happening though that’s is making some warriors effectively immune to conditions.

It depends on your build but I’ve been taking null field, stacking a lot of condi’s on them and using null field to strip the Resistance and Might they’ve built up. So what happens is they tend to not pay attention to the fact they have no more resistance and lose half their health. Then a couple well times scepter blocks and shatters have them on the ground. And oddly enough I’ve done this in melee range. Granted that’s for 1v1’s, if you’re on point with warrior plus necro’s kiting is king, but so is stripping the resistance.

Carighan.6758:

Jace al Thor.6745:

However, wouldn’t it make sense to buff the underperforming classes and builds(cause lets be honest power shatter is meh atm.) and in doing so make the other classes perform on a level playing field rather nerfing everything?

Theoretically the two are the same and buffing feels better (granted), but that ignores two very important points:

• PvE-balance. Class balance changes generally do not affect PvE enemies. I never checked but I don’t think a Risen’s Null Field is affected when mine is changed. This means if you continuously use a buff-always approach, PvE rapidly becomes (even) easier. Probably meaningless in the case of open world, but quite relevant for raids. This gives you a power baseline against which to operate, nerf what is above it and buff what is below it.
• TTL. If you opt for a buff-always approach, combat becomes more… rapid. Sure the defensive skills are also buffed but get caught just once without using the right defensive skill and all the buffs to damage skills will result in you just being flat out dead immediately. Time-to-live goes down with a buff-always approach, hence you want a “target TTL”. This gives you another power baseline, nerf what is above it, buff what is below it.

The two together give you both a PvE and a PvP reason to not always buff. And yes, ofc, no one likes to get nerfed. But it’s healthier for the game as a whole if buffs and nerfs happen somewhat evenly.

Which will result in a lot of nerfs because HoT was one gargantuan buff to everything. The power creep was and still is crazy. :/

I am by no means saying buff only. However, condi Mesmer hasn’t changed. It’s still the same build it was 6 months ago and no one used hardly then(sorry messiah) but now with the addition of Merc amulet that Anet graciously added has made it viable along with power just being horrendous.
So realistically there’s no reason to nerf condi Mesmer any more than it already has been. If you do, well it’ll be trash like everything else. Instead what my idea would be is buff power shatter and support mesmer in PvP. People like playing bunker Mesmer so it should be an option. Power shatter should always be an option. Additionally you would have a buff of bunker guard, offensive ele builds, do something with ranger so that aren’t just spamming pet f2 and CA skills, the list goes on. And these should all be possible because the amount of potential builds is high, if Anet devoted the time to make it so. There is no reason why each class shouldn’t have a minimum of 3 working builds per game mode. And by working I mean tournament quality builds.

None of that would, in my opinion, make gameplay more rapid if Anet buff things in a controlled manner. For instance, you can’t make bunker guard +100000% better at healing in one shot. You have to do small changes and tweak things. Tweak traps, tweak Rev, tweak everything.

And again, I am an advocate for split balance between PvP and PvE so you wouldn’t have to worry about PvE being easier/harder due to PvP balance because it have its own team. That and having a test server to actually see how these things would work before launching would make it so much easier. Would over head be higher? Probably, but they could make up for it by introducing new armor skins on the fading post because from what I hear people are tired of outfits and want more armor skins to customize their looks so it would be an easy sell. Plus whatever else they thought would do well.