LS1 never failed. LS2 was implemented because there was a new thread every other day, demanding to be able to replay the stuff someone has missed.
LS1 clearly did fail, which is why we don’t have that model any more.
Do you even read what I write?
ETA: And also Zephyria: I’d rather have the devs work on dynamic events that don’t have to be perfect but something where people can really play together than having them spending their time on boring LS2 in which you are all alone.
The marionette (and evacuation of LA) were that great because we were 150 people working together, you can’t put that into a replayable living story personal story.
LS1 failed because it was temporary. That’s why LS2 was permanent, and then the LS model was replaced with an expansion model.
LS1 never failed. LS2 was implemented because there was a new thread every other day, demanding to be able to replay the stuff someone has missed.
We had a lot of fun during LS1 – not only with the marionette it was a fun way to meet all the people on your server and to stuff together. The only problem was that you had to have enough people in most cases, that’s why people guested because there was no megaservers around yet.
I may be in the minority but I liked LS1 a lot better – LS2 feels like a chore to me.
There’s a couple reasons for the lack of diversity, outside of balance changes and HoT:
1) MetaBattle. It used to be pretty tough to find an exact build that there was much of a consensus over. Back in the early days, at best you’d be able to get builds from what people ran in tournaments, but that information was less readily available, so less people followed it.
2) The new PvP League. With the new league, competition in GW2 PvP overall has gotten a lot tighter. With pips at stake, people are a lot less likely to risk losses by running experimental builds outside of unranked.
I disagree with your 1) and maybe even 2) – I’ve been a ranger back in the day (2,5 years ago) and got nooo love – people always wanted to win, it’s not just the League.
To 1) : people always had “meta builds” because back in the day there were tons of youtube videos of people doing pvp or wvw stuff around and most of them linked their builds.
So, I guess the Meta is how it is because this game is pretty very much imbalanced.
ETA: Yeah, hadn’t had coffee yet. You already wrote that. Still I think that people have always been running meta builds. If it wasn’t on youtube/streams it was on the forums.
But I think there was more freedom to swap some traits here and there – I did so with a metabuild and found a streamer running that exact build later on.
I’d love to have a ~10 slot bag for only siege – no other things can be put into it.
I would favour it being a wvw only item which can only be earned in wvw.
The problem is that the PvE people of this game will complain.
They could make it a wallet for siege, tricks, traps, food and utilities and sell it on the gem store. PvE players won’t care about most of that but the food/utilities might appeal to them.
They do care about something being theoretically in game but of no use for them.
“why can’t we have 10 slots bags, the wvw players have them, so it’s possible!!”
No, only for siege (that includes traps as they need supply to build) no pve related stuff to fit in there – otherwise the above is highly likely. And this would be a compromise to the gem store related items.
I’d love to have a ~10 slot bag for only siege – no other things can be put into it.
I would favour it being a wvw only item which can only be earned in wvw.
The problem is that the PvE people of this game will complain.
I like the old system as well to some points, but the new system is key architecture required to allow them to add new elites down the road.
Yes, but the traitmerge was the biggest mistake – so a compromise would be to unravel the traits (so you have 5? choices again instead of 3).
Just wanted to point out that it’s not only the elites.
Item flooding isn’t really a “problem”. No one worries about other skins being available all year.
You probably don’t, anet does and those who worked towards them or even bought them to resell them do worry as well. Also, there is probably no content which gives you exclusive, sellable skins all year – so this would be a first or the skins should be removed – would be a solution as well.
IAlso, SAB is one of the few areas of the game where actual effort/skill over grind is required to earn rewards,
Didn’t you just call it grind? Or do you consider it grind because it’s “only” up for 19 days?
And you can grind this as well, if you like – it doesn’t really need skill to get the basic weapon skins. If you’re after the unsellable versions or AP you have to have some skill (thank god people on youtube already solved everything).
I really, really can’t understand why it isn’t permanent.
This system just encourages people to grind it as much as possible, rather than just casually enjoy it. We don’t need to turn off other modes or features to keep them interesting (can you imagine if PvP was available 20 days a year?), and SAB is exactly the kind of pick up and play activity that people will log in for a quick run at. The original Super Mario Bros is still fun 30 years later for a reason.
Throw in a time based leaderboard for all three modes and leave it on all year I say.
Because permanent would cause a lot of problems (item flooding, not enough people to get a group together as they’re already bored).
To me it’s no grind at all – I only wanted one skin and have it.
I was just thinking about how to explain to you that this is no grind when I realized that this is in fact the first time in a long while where there’s really no grind.
You have 3 sets of achievements ,the “grand prize” for 2 of them is a title, otherwise you get AP and that was it. Also you have the daily achievements – that could be seen as a grind but you get your reward after 8 completed days and the event is up for 19 days – so you have enough time to get at least one of the skins.
A lot of people like having a list that suggests them what to do. I do as well as it gave me the reason to really explore SAB and I was honestly baffled how much love the creators put in it. It’s a really well done “minigame” – just enjoy it, you don’t need to do it.
EOTM is arguably the closest thing to an old recollection of an aged WvW game mode, mechanically speaking. It is now I believe, considered an old school place. Players and guilds would rather fight and play in a game mode near-free and almost rid of the unspeakable horrors that were included in HoT regarding WvW.
EotM has got everything HoT brought to wvw: Automated upgrades, OP PvE buffs, a map that kills the players walking on it, too many PvE elements that do your work.
The closest it gets to old school wvw is EB and that’s about it.
How can it even be a waiting area?
I’m often using our BL as my “waiting zone” and I often click the “EB is ready” away as I’m in the middle of a fight.
When they started eotm you had queue every night on every map… Very long queue, sometimes 2H long…
Now it’s true we can’t imagine that… But it was a time, a long time ago, that we had a lot of people in WvW…. I was in T3 at this time, not even in T1.
They should really close at least 1/3 of the server (I speak for EU, don’t know other).
Yes, on some servers, I’m pretty sure they still were the minority – but that wasn’t my point.
I think the real problem started when EOTM. overshot its purpose and became instead of a waiting area the main rank-farm area.
Its quicker more easy, less fights, less enemies and like Stihl said there is less loyalty you are not affiliated with one server.
How can it even be a waiting area?
I’m often using our BL as my “waiting zone” and I often click the “EB is ready” away as I’m in the middle of a fight.
You can’t commit to something if you don’t know when you’ll leave – so the very idea of EotM is flawed. And at least on none of the servers I’ve been to it’s ever been used as a waiting line – maybe some people did but I very much doubt it.
“Oh no, someone says thief works for them! That can’t be! Must get all gossip I know about them out!”
A good base for a discussion.
At some point I really should get to the ground why every thread Caed is in completely derails and hordes of players come to insult him.
@Jana, my time calculations are timed from base respawn until I reach all camps. Shrines only affect you in earth keep, but the proper route doesn’t involve going through it, unless you own earth keep, in which case you won’t be affected.
Just tried it on my main who is a thief and runs with signet of shadows and has got swiftness on his steal and I needed 11 mins. (He was the one with the 8 mins as well).
I pretended that nothing on our BL was ours – so I ran the long route around the towers.
Route was: NW, SW, S, SE, NE and N. I’m not so sure the eastern route is equally long, I think it might be longer, will try again at some point.
The Earth shrine is the one that’s the most annoying, but the air shrines are also pretty bad. And this is for only one person. 5 to a small zerg won’t have bigger problems on the DBLs but large zergs to blobs have. Also roamers; you said that the DBLs take some brain – not really. I was once capping “all” camps on all maps for 6 hours (was the only one of my server online) – and 30 enemies were chasing me. Guess what kind of mindgames that were (they didn’t manage to get 695 points btw) – I wouldn’t be able to pull the same off on the DBLs as the sentries will always give my position away – or I’m being held by a barricade for 5 mins.
I get that some people like the DBL but it’s not a wvw map – you could basically make a guild vs guild guild mission map out of it. That might actually be fun.
ETA: And this is just the map layout without towers and keeps that also have got layout problems. The fights in all ABL keeps were a lot more fun than what I’ve encountered on the DBLs so far. We have been from 5-80 and none of the fights were somewhat memorable.
ETA³: Just found an old video of me capping SE camp on the BLs – was 1 min 10 s (the ring took 30 s – don’t think it has changed but haven’t really paid attention to it since June). So, it’s 6 camps on the Bls – 7 min – it took me 8 mins to get around.
I’ve now run all camps in home and enemy bls. With my mesmer it takes around 11-12 minutes to reach all camps plus around 50s to take each of them, which makes around 16-17 minutes to flip all camps from a bl.
From what starting point? Are the shrines yours?
How many npcs in the camp do you kill? Just curious – it doesn’t really matter.
- Had to deal with barricades and surround the north towers. Owning garrison in home BL and a north tower in enemy BL reduces easily 1-1.5 minute the entire journey.
Ok, still don’t know what the “base” of your estimation was – I don’t really care about the rest of what you wrote as I’m not really arguing pro or con DBLs – I just told how much time it took me to get around and actually do stuff on the APLs.
I’m now checking your “but the ring is only up for 20s” ;)
Dzagonur and Augury Rock, I’m coming for your camps.
Oh, expect a ETA
Oh and: Please read what I write when you refer to it ;)
ETA: Camps:
Alone EB: 28 s until the ring was filled
With 3 players from my server on EB: 24s
With Dredge as a help: 24s
Alone DBL: 28s.
So you guys might want to re-check the times you need for everything ;)
I’m just throwing in that I’ve been able to flip all camps on our BL (citadel WP as only WP) within one tick ( = 15 mins). Yes, flipping camps was my sport. One took me 1,5 mins from start to finish (first attack until it was my team’s colour).
Try that on the new BLs.
Camps from desert take pretty much the same to clean up, if not less. Elite specializations brought a lot of power creep and aoe pressure that counter the difficulty added, plus now dolyaks are out of range.
With several builds you can even spend about the same time capping than actually killing the npcs, which takes around 40s from the first hit until you capped, and your 1.5min is far from being surprising, even before HoT people were taking a camp in 40-50s.
PD: Capping ring lasts 20s, not 30.
I really don’t get why no one seems to understand me.
1) I tried to estimate the time from point to point (not really keeps or center of keeps) on the old borderlands – that’s why I brought this up.
2) I said that I found an old video in which the ring was up 30 s – I also said in the same sentence that I haven’t watched the time since June, so I have no idea whether or not that changed
3. All of this irrelevant anyway as the only thing that mattered and why I brought it up was that you could run around all camps (= more than the BL) within 8 mins on the ABLs.
I could explain a bit more what has changed when capping camps and whether or not it’s easier or faster or whatnot – but that wasn’t my point
It takes longer than 10s for the ring
Maybe you should stop the time again , although it’s completely irrelevant in this case.
And: If you count the times for your BL then assume that nothing on the map belongs to you – that were my conditions every day
ETA: I couldn’t flip the camps on enemy BLs (all 6) that fast because I was missing the WP but that was maybe 2-3 mins more.
ETA²: And yes this was without enemy players trying to save their camps.
ETA³: Just found an old video of me capping SE camp on the BLs – was 1 min 10 s (the ring took 30 s – don’t think it has changed but haven’t really paid attention to it since June).
So, it’s 6 camps on the Bls – 7 min – it took me 8 mins to get around. From citadel to NC it was ~30 s max, from citadel to NE/NW camp it was around 1,5-2 mins.
Unfortunately there’s so many small things that really annoy me on the DBLs that I don’t have the patience to try to find the optimal ways – but if nothing on the map is yours you’ll have a problem with all the PvE elements.
Anyway, I’ve run the times and there is no significant difference* in camp-to-camp travel times from Alpine to Desert with the exception of the enemy north camp, due to barriers. If you’re on your own BL with Citadel as the only WP, you shouldn’t notice any difference.
*Some times are longer, some are shorter. The greatest difference is ~25% though the median is ~10%.
I’m not so sure about that – the way from NW camp to SW camp seems a bit longer than on alpine – same for NE to SE.
Also the 15 mins were because I made use of the only WP I had.
I’m just throwing in that I’ve been able to flip all camps on our BL (citadel WP as only WP) within one tick ( = 15 mins). Yes, flipping camps was my sport. One took me 1,5 mins from start to finish (first attack until it was my team’s colour).
Try that on the new BLs.
From the get go they probably should have just made 4 ebg type maps, then they could have dumped the “homebl” concept and we could have had at this point ebg, alpine, eotm, desert as the 4 maps to play on for a matchup.
kitten , that’s actually a good idea. And you could easily introduce new maps to the rotation, too
I was also thinking they should take a week and try having 4 ebg maps instead, see how that works out since people love it so much. Maybe even have ebg as the homebl and the alpine or desert be the ebg type map but double the points, with “red” having a real advantage of having garrison.
Then again… having 4 maps upgraded with airship defenses…. probably would be too painful lol.
You guys do know that the DBLs are “mini” EB’s, right? Every server has got a WP on them. Problem is: We don’t have enough people to fill them – so you could duplicate EB 3 times and all but one would be deserted as well. The reason why ABL is different: It’s really a home – the home server has got access to all WPs and is able to travel around quickly and to defend. If the few people on ABL aren’t enough angainst enemy forces usually EB is called – in a case of 4 EBs or even DBL, used as intended, no one would know where to call for help.
ETA: The reason why people are playing EB: It’s simple but still every objective has got strategic value. It’s possible to play any way you like (roamer, small scale, zerg/blob) – on DBL you’re good as a small zerg, roaming is pretty hard because of the sentries giving the location away and barricades and no waypoints, zergs are usually killed by the map. If people liked the new maps better than EB, they would play on them and EB would be deserted (except that most people love SM).
You see your hits when you see numbers – no need to switch to combat log – I would be seriously annoyed by that at Teq because I land 10 hits per second plus poison, plus sigil procs – ugh the spam.
Anyway, it’s not like it used to be before megaservers – people aren’t really camping maps, so no one is there until a few minutes before the events start. Just think that no one knows you’re there – leave the map chat open and believe in the game mechanics that your shots will hit, read and learn. Or google and read everything about that fight beforehand.
And I pretty much doubt that the chat really was that toxic.
I was commander at teq today and no one killed the fingers and I couldn’t really jump around as I’m the point for the turret buffs – so I asked in say chat that people please kill the fingers – some might see that as toxic.
There’s so much stuff bound to steal already that you could’ve argued like that right from the start (= game launch).
I meant the forced revealed – which actually destroys the core mechanics of thief – but alas no core mechanics were changed, right?
You actually don’t need to explain anything to me, because I don’t care.
In the writings above, it’s mentioned that improvisation will reset the cooldown of the Stygian Hunter Form transformation skill if Stygian Charge is used,
That is where it was mentioned in response to the lack of stolen bundles.
I got that – I also got that you exaggerated and interepreted it as the whole profession being changed.
Anet threw something at us: Forced revealed – they destroyed a whole traitline (SA) with it, without giving us something in exchange – this is the idea of how to exchange us as they need to do so or take revealed out of the game. So we’re already moving into the direction and it was anet who started it – they just didn’t bring it to an end yet.
I do hope some devs sit in terror while reading threads like this: this was your doing – and yeah it will be a hell lot of work to sort it out.
(and with that I don’t only mean the state of thief – I mean it is funny, right? “Yo, stop playing your class you just can’t handle it – look at me facerolling my keyboard like a pro”)
They’ve been called trait lines in the past which would reasonably make the individual parts traits.
Yes, but no one spoke about changing traits – even improvisation wouldn’t really be changed. The core of the class would still stay the same, only if the new line and improvisation are used in combination improvisation will be changed.
And with that I’m out again.
I guess I would have to try deceivers ideas to see how they work out – in this case I can’t theorycraft – I probably would be able to if someone gave me a ready made Deadeye D/D build. Just know that he is pretty very seriously accurate when it comes to numbers and powercreep.
How did it switch from “Thief will never get a rifle” to “They will never change the core traits” who suggested changing the core traits in this thread? What did I miss?
Is English not your first language? I ask this because you seem to have problems with comprehension. If so I don’t mind explaining things more simply for you.
Changing a core trait was mentioned about Improvisation being changed to effect the CD on Stygian form instead of giving two stolen bundles since the new F1 skill would not steal anything. That would be changing a core trait to accommodate the Elite profession skill suggested in this. I also never said “thief will never get rifle” I said “I wouldn’t have any high hopes this will be implemented because it involves taking away the profession mechanic which none of the other Elites have done.”
It is not my first language, but you don’t even understand the meaning of what you yourself wrote, so I’m pretty good, I think.
How did it switch from “Thief will never get a rifle” to “They will never change the core traits” who suggested changing the core traits in this thread? What did I miss?
ETA: I guess “trait” was used as the original meaning and not in game description of a profession’s trait.
Dismiss my question.
I wanted to have the pistol skin for my cheese character and I don’t know how much it was on the TP, maybe ~500 gold, and I was too stingy (stupid me) I actually had no idea how awesome the whole weapondesign is.
And my Asura is becoming cheesier with every event
Pretty much everyone knows thieves and warriors are pretty much trash tier.
Ah, ok.
If you rated all the classes in order of how good they are thief would be in the worst three in this meta. That pretty much makes it trash right now. If it was so OP why are so many thieves whining about how Anet screwed the class in the thief forums?
That wasn’t my problem, my problem was that you called the class ok but the players bad.
The thing is it’s not the class itself that is bad, it’s the players and the bad ones tend to be really stubborn. They refuse to admit two thieves is a bad comp. When they are bad they refuse to change. That’s why so many people hate thieves. Which if you notice my OP, that is really what I am complaining about.
I hope you realize that this makes no sense.
“Personally I don’t think Scrapper is an overpowered class, it’s just that Scrappers are good players.”
If anything, the stab changes, desert bl, and hot additions just made blobbing more appealing.
The DBLs are indeed blob killer – choke points everywhere, lava, air blasts, obstacles and so on – it’s really hard to stay a zerg and in some cases even pretty deady; i think it’s the NE camp where you can run in a circle, so you can bash the backline, turn around, bash the melee, and so on.
I do not recall the zergs complaining about the zergs and the zergs are the majority of the players. The thing with these “zergs” is they are the majority of the players in the game mode. It is a game mode designed for the “Masses” in a massively multiplayer game where you are supposed to be able to play with and against massive amounts of players. The more players on the map the better and the more players on the map means the more players in the game mode spending $$ to support it. Financially it just does not make sense to design a massively multiplayer PvP game mode then cater to the solo players.
They already have a small scale PvP arena, this one is supposed to be the large scale PvP arena. Sure players can come in and duel, roam havoc and what not, but they should not be cry babies when they get face rolled by a zerg in the process as that just comes with the territory. You can solo anyone you want in guild halls and private arenas uninterrupted, THIS is the only place in the game where you can fight large scale battlefield PvP.
Jeh, then haven’t you been around for a bit – ever before and after the “adopt a dev”-project everything was against blobbing and zerging – that’s why the map is like it is – no matter how much you like to argue against it (should’ve done that 2-1 years ago) – people wanted the map as it is.
ETA: And yes that’s the huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge downside of the forums: Those who disagree with it are likely not reading them, thus only one side is displayed. In case of class balance I was really sure that whining on the forums wouldn’t work, but it did. In case of the new BL there was no real other option if you haven’t got enough “staff” who play the mode as well and who know it. You have to go by the forums.
I have no love for the DBL. It is not beautiful at all, it is not only ugly, but bland. The buildings are atrocious, placement of just about everything is awful, I honestly think the people who designed this have no idea what PvP should be about , nor do they understand the goals, objectives and enjoyment of PvP players. This was so poorly done, they need a new team entirely to work on it tbh, as everything they " thought" was a good idea, they should have done the opposite. Lush green gardens, forests, rainbows and flowers are beautiful. Not this " Let’s make a desert canyon area that looks far more pitiful than a real desert canyon mess."
That’s a bit unfair.
They brought a lot of what a lot of people wanted on these forums (I know not everybody is here or stays the same) into that map. Mainly chokes. And I don’t remember whether or not someone complained about other stuff but the main complaint on these forums was that there’s too many zergs.
Also: The maps I find the most beautiful in this game are Orr – weird, huh? My favourite stuffed animal is a unicorn though.
if u keep it permanent, it gets old and it will die out
it wont have the same feel as a yearly content.
I second that. I’m glad it is back and I enjoy it a lot more than 2 years ago when I was a keyboard turner.
But if it weren’t seasonal I likely wouldn’t play it right now but just wait and wait, like all the LS and other stuff.
It made no sense to not having had it the past 2 years, especially because of the infinite coin, but bringing it back and keeping it would be nice – I hope it won’t be another 2 years.
Oh yes, and I can finally get the skin I wanted.
Tried to stack bleeding with death blossom? I bet it does equal damage. Also condi D/D is still a hybrid set.
Your argumentation as to why condi builds are less powerful is just very poor, sorry.
And a lot in this game is currently completely messed up, so it’s hard to tell what exactly makes builds/classes OP. Condi is really nasty though, no matter whether it’s a pure condi, hybrid or even power build. And I’d be in favour of rune of perplexity being removed from the game entirely.
Stats offer less defense against condis means, you can go full zerk and still counter condis with traits/skills. One of the reasons why glassy condi/hybrid builds (viper/sinister) are much harder to play on many classes than zerk builds. Same or even less defense than zerk, less dmg because of condi remove (and sometimes because the condi variant of a class generally deals less dmg), more dmg from counter builds …
..
So you don’t have access to the same skills as a zerker when you go condi? well ok then, anet should look into that.
Too pretty to be deleted.
(I wasn’t that impressed by the staff animations once they were changed but with this weird skin they look awesome – I just wish it were plain black – otherwise: good work, anet).
-I’m probably alone in this, but I don’t like the random hologram gathering nodes in the towers/keeps. Gathering isn’t fun. You just stand in front of a node (that doesn’t even look like the item you’re collecting) and press ‘F’. Now every time we cap something, we have to pause while waiting for 80% of the group to do this silly process. imo, let’s get moving so we can find some more fights.
I once came past a warrior and ranger fighting, the ranger was about to die and at 30% health he must’ve seen the F and started to chop some wood.
It was very funny but that’s basically one of the PvE elements most of us don’t like too much.
And also the herbs and vegetables you farm from them take away a huge chunk of the gold costs for food.
Also: We don’t farm the nodes after capping something. If you’re the commander just run away, your people will follow.
).
