Guild Wars 2

No, actually it’s the same with all thieves I’ve encountered recently. You can’t hit them unless you use a port – like D/P 3.

Sindrener: It has got nothing to do with D/P, but all thieves I’ve encountered since Feb 2015 were, with a few exception D/P. The very bug I’m talking about is in game since Feb 2015 – I guess that was before the teleport bug and has got something to do with the evade frame of thief.

I could make a video and I probably will, depending how much it bugs me, although I know you guys still wouldn’t believe me.
But for that I have to create a channel again, get vegas somewhere and so on.

I just tested it: there’s no way I can time CnD + steal to hit a thief – and not all of them are really dodging or porting. I can hit a running warrior without problems though.

Sorry for necroing. Try it yourselves, you probably come to the same conclusion. And this very issue becomes less of an issue depending how many tools you’ve got.

ETA: Actually it would be great would you guys make as many 1 vs 1 videos as you can. Haven’t seen any in ages. Especially not thief vs thief.

Frozen.1347:

kaleen.8204:

If you want to improve, sure, come Vabbi.

If someone wants to actually improve, he should play against good players instead of joining them. Getting carried doesn’t make you better.

If all those “good” wvw players/guilds would actually seek for good fights, they would split across the servers and fight each other instead of stacking on one and then farming casual pugs that simply don’t care enough.

Just that ‘Vabbi’ aren’t good. They just think they are. They’re good at karma trains, that’s about it. Oh and at yelling how great they are and much skill such wow.
We have a very funny love/hate relationship though – chat can be toxic but it can also be really fun.

ETA: No one can be that good in a game that’s played by facerolling your keyboard – and I thought ‘the best players’ would know. You can make a difference if your positioning is rather flawless, but that’s about it – that’s all skill you probably can have in this messed up game.

baba: No port on steal = you will have no port at all. Traitwise and so on there is potential, but steal no port = dealbreaker. It’s hard enough as it is.
And no, the 3 dodges are a major + and that seems what most deadeyes seem to be missing. Daredevil is completely and utterly overpowered – and I still wonder what will happen to the HoT elites.

ETA: And I have troubles to bring my point across: I don’t mind if there’s nothing new that’s ‘suited’ for me as long as I can play what I was used to. That alone is no argument to buy something, true. And I get that making an elite that suits all sets won’t work – then why not make the utility accessible when having hot/pof? Why am I completelyy locked out of any new ‘content’ when chosing to play a different set? (Which still is broken because anet probably don’t know too much about thief).

Clownmug.8357:

It’s funny seeing history repeat itself. Everyone’s saying their main profession’s elite is terrible, just like the first HoT beta weekend. I guess if there’s another one of these weekends the devs will probably buff everything across the board. Then we’ll have a year or two of whining about the PoF power creep.

Of course it will. The idea behind how to sell their expansion is flawed.
I’m maining D/D power thief. Has been destroyed on June 2015 (vanilla traits – have been destroyed once more with the current patch and there’s no end in sight), Daredevil has got nothing for power D/D, Deadeye has got nothing. But I can’t even take the utility when not being an elite. So yeah, you don’t want me as a player, I get it. I do wonder how this is supposed to work out. They lost the majority of competitive players because there’s just no balance because they want to sell their expansion. I do wonder if it’s worth it in the end.

Wargameur.6950:

A thief can do that even without deadeye ^^

“Yes, Yes, yes, but thiefhate, never out of fashion, whether or not I have solid arguments – Thief OP!!”

I know the people don’t really know how to play the new elites, but they feel by far weaker than the HoT elites. What’s going to happen to them?
There has been a lot of powercreep the past 2 years. One problem is still the traitmerge, which should be adressed.
I did say that I’d buy the equivalent of HoT in gems if the first real balance patch made by professionals came out. And actually the last balance patch was really good, just that i don’t know why some grave mistakes made in June 2015 still haven’t been fixed (my power D/D thief is still in the gutter) andI do wonder what the plan regarding balance is. A balance patch every 2 years before the next expansion, or are you actually willing to balance the game so that it’s not faceroll to win anymore? That is actually my ‘Yes, I have faith in anet, I will buy the expansion to support them’.

And btw: I’ve been saying “D/P evades too much” for at least a year now – so that complaint isn’t new (cabbage).

ETA: Because I want to ragequit like usual again:
All I knew was that when I downloaded the patch I missed everything. Especially thieves I couldn’t hit. Most thieves even back then were D/P. And I don’t lie if I say that my winrate against thieves back then was 100% (unless they were buddies and we duelled quite a lot so they knew my patterns).
After the patch I always said that CnD+steal would make a 50% chance that it worked. It’s now at 100% again. CnD a running target didn’t work at all. Anet fixed both things, but the super evasive D/P thieves remain. So if you think I’m adressing ‘a new problem’ I’m not – it is part of the problem.
I probably have the same issues with other classes/sets but don’t notice it that much because AoE and blocks and stuff. And because I know thief and used to fight every thief I saw, no matter the set. Still kind of do although I’m at clear disadvantage as a core D/D thief.

I’m trying again:
The february patch in 2015 messed the whole combat in this game up. I have no idea what they did but since then: D/D was broken (not being able to hit moving targets, steal CnD combo broken), D/P is super evasive, the ping/lags between red, blue and green are off – mostly. And more was destroyed, just that I know thief the best.
Most people don’t notice this because they’re AoE-ing everything or excuse everything with ‘game is laggy’ which it isn’t always. I’m trying to be heard since feb 2015 and most who I told this called me nuts, just like you guys. I still know I’m right. Maybe because I’m playing this game for 4 years, was on NA, so was used to high ping, am now playing on EU and see the difference (high/low ping) and so on and so on.
I might not be right in this very case, that’s why I’m asking anet to check it – they won’t say anything anyway, so it might well go unchecked or fixed if it was broken and we’ll never know. So what?! Whatever – it’s worth a try.

Sindrener: It’s always the same, no matter which D/P I fight when and where – the 2 who might have had a high ping make no real difference.

cabbage: I don’t hate D/P that much but I still think it’s the bane of all of thief’s problems, yes. I just want the stuff they broke in Feb 2015 to be acknowledged and possibly fixed.

Are we good now?

Friend/enemy – relationships can be really fun. There’s one guy who goes out to find (and kill me) every time we’re against each other. I know him for now 3 years and we’ve been initially on the same server. We’ve never really been friends but we respect each other deeply – and all we do is fight if we meet. That isn’t really my problem, what is was that my server has been unique: we were all roamers and we never needed a commander – that ship has sailed since the links demanded commanders and with that the whole server has been ‘killed off’. Nowadays there’s no real roaming anyway because of unbalance and queues – and I miss that.
We were once up against a buddy of mine to who I was talking to while we were playing wvw. He was: “Haha, we’re in your bravost (20 of them)”. Someone, not me, called it out and I saw a guild raid of ~10 going there, some roamers were there before them, then some more roamers came, then the public and my buddy was: “WHY ARE THEY GETTING MORE AND MORE??” – And that was just how we were – everybody went where they were needed. And it was really cool.

alchemyst.2165:

What’s the actual problem? All you’re saying is that D/P can evade more, which, considering D/P has no evade skills, isn’t true.

It isn’t properly coded. Like I said: I’m just a gamer, I have no idea about the programming of this game. They just need to move to get out of range – I can hit every other thief in that range, not D/P – don’t ask me why. Sometimes it is explainable but a lot of times it’s not.
The same was with Warriors who were just too fast for me, especially GS warriors. Seems to have been changed, I don’t really have troubles to kill them anymore. Same was with Heralds who I killed like nothing and who are now giving me a hard time. You can explain a lot of that with ping and with ping differences between the servers which is also a problem in general – but with D/P it always stayed the same since feb 2015. So I’m asking anet to check if everything with their coding is alright – I can’t do more.

rbbthole.9074:

I definitely need someone to explain me how to use this “d/p evade frame”

You already do when playing D/P – that’s why D/P is extra evasive.

bluri.2653:

What you are describing is Ping and nothing else rofl

I have pingplotter – I know my ping.

Asur.9178:

Can you please go find something more believable to whine about?

Unfortunately this is my only way to communicate with anet – so you all have to get through it as well. And you have to admit that it’d be rather useless would I try to make videos of it. So my question is the only thing I can do.

Amaimon.7823:

I was actually happy with gliding because after 5 years i still dont know to properly leave the north keep without risking falling damage

Jump on the house that’s in front of it – but you will get falling damage the second you jump over the wall anyway. So – you’ve never been safe of sustaining falling damage.

synergy.5809:

that is why there are those of us who are against gliding, yes it makes it less annoying to run back / find a path down cliffs, but the negative impacts on WvW gameplay and risks are far too great.

Gliding bypasses a lot of the problems that came with balance changes: I was one of the few who managed to get into an attacked tower every time – nowadays I can’t really do that because the AOE is just too strong. Gliding to OW/Veloka bypasses that and it’s way easier to defend – the other corners might not have it that easy. But on the other hand it’s easier for the attackers as well. – You’d have to balance the structural damage and everything that’s going wrong for about 4 years now and which is getting worse and worse – or you can just throw gliders on it. Don’t know if I explained that sufficiently.

Cerby.1069:

[…]That’s cause the mode offers so little to keep people interested in it. You can spend 30-60 mins in the mode and you’ve experienced the bulk of the mode. Expecting people to do it for another year or longer is unreasonable.

The reason people keep on playing is a) good fights b) community – work on that and the game mode is ‘safe’. I doubt that wvw players really wanted all this loot. I guess most are like me: I want balance (class and structure), I want strategy (which is being killed off little by little) and I want to play with my server (which is partlyy being destroyed by the links and also by not balancing the game).

I agree with Cerby. I guess most of us would be rather ‘happy’ to not have hordes of PvE players in wvw as it is very exhausting.
And on the same time I don’t care about pips at all – it’s nice to have a carrot, but other than that I don’t need all that junk. I want to play my game, have good fights and be happy. I was fine with getting less pips and I’m also fine with getting more because I just don’t care.

Yes, I’m pretty certain that D/P is bugged and has got a slight barely noticable advantage.
That since February 2015, not June, sorry. Remember when I said my winrate against players was around 95+% back then and against thieves 100% and all of the sudden (after the patch feb 2015) it was 70% and 0% against thieves – who all/mostly were D/P back then (stuff might have changed in between, so it isn’t as bad as it used to be, but it still feels off). If everything is alright and I was wrong then it’s fine, if it isn’t a fix might prevent from more NERF D/P DAREDEVIL cries. Don’t know if anyone really realizes how important the ‘game engine’ is.

And I know I sound crazy, don’t worry
But I am a gamer and no dev – so I’m asking anet to check if D/P is properly coded.

(@ anet) Can you please check if the evade frame is accurate as they seem to evade everything, even when they shouldn’t – they just need to move to evade. That has been the case for D/P since June 2015. I know that DrD is designed to evade everything, but even they should be hit if not dodging which is very difficult. Please check if everything is right with D/P and/or Daredevil.

I don’t know why people always get me wrong.
You can do whatever you want to do, but you’ll never be able to time it right so that it is reliable. That’s all I’m saying.

DeceiverX.8361:

I find chaining CnD far from impossible against most targets that I’d need to do so with. It’s really just FA eles, thieves from mobility, and DHs from chain block which are tough to chain stealth indefinitely on. Add a stealth utility skill to the mix and it’s not that difficult to do.

Players have the ability to move quite a lot, to put CC AoE down and so on – it’s not that easy to get to your target without a port. Just throwing this in your discussion.

ETA: And in general – don’t forget that D/P is still overpowered and needs to be nerfed (just like DrD – curious what will happen to the current elites with the next expansion). So if talking about ini regen and so on: that can be nerfed to on the same time bring D/P down a notch.

bluri.2653:

What do you think about DB adding aoe blind similar to the one of revenant staff #3 instead of bleeds?

CiS in its former form would be sufficient, I guess, just that the devs seem to think it’s completely overpowered wheras it isn’t. Why add more blind to something if you completely deny it in trait form, wheras every second thief skill in game has it anyway?!

No as you stay on the spot with DB

The blind is one hit. It’s ‘magic’ against other thieves who are in stealth and are being hit with the stealth attack cooldown – but how many weaponskills in game are really one hit – besides auto attack?

And like I said in another thread: I have more problems with conditions that with hits – which is another thing: D/D is melee, they wade through all kinds of AoE and have to get back and forth without having anything but utility skills and steal as a port. Cripple is a huge disadvantage and with that SE comes into play again.

And if you boil it all down: All of us besides D/P players are trying to get back what we’ve had 2 years ago – so I guess anets best bet to make the game more balanced again is to look at how it has been 2+ years ago. And even then only few played D/D – even when they had CiS unnerfed in master.

Yes, you’re talking about after SA was destroyed for D/D. It wasn’t for D/P which was the problem when coupled with SA.

Yes, I’d love to see more set related stuff tied to traitlines as well, if possible – one of them is CiS – which is completely overpowered in your opinion and which anet seems to share – if you both were familiar with pvp you’d know that it would make D/D more viable but not OP.

It’s not about bugs, it’s about what D/D lacks – which you would know would you either play the game or watch the video.

Sorry, but I really don’t have the patience anymore to go through the same stuff over and over just to have the devs copy and paste your suggestions which destroy SA and D/D.

I like you, but you’re a theorycrafter at best, most guys who are on this forum are.

ETA: Just for the record: I’m already using DB as a gap closer – you could increase the range and it would even be more like that – people just need to learn to use it.
The other thing: D/D has been dead way before the June 2015th patch – so even if the guys who did play it and who quit didn’t notice, something with that set was off and that was bugs. Good for you if you’ve never heard of anyone else besides me having problems to hit – but I’m not making it up. Anet watched my last bugs video about 100 times (best stalker tool: youtube) and they did change some stuff – the most noticable was increasing the timeframe for the CnD and Steal combo which the havoc guy never used. And since most of you never had any videos showing you play I tend to believe that it was a general bug affecting everybody. And if this sounds as if I’m kittened it might be because I am – I’m so sick of having to fight you guys instead of pulling the same string.

ETA²: The miss bug appeared around the patch in February 2015, got even worse in June 2015. And it’s also dependend on lags which wvw never is free from.

DeceiverX.8361:

Yeah but CnD could just be re-cast by the end with the whole ordeal costing less than what it does now. Whiffed Stab? Re-cast CnD and the downtime of just sitting in stealth waiting to avoid being revealed is also now lower, too. Two attempts would be a total of four init on a failed stab.

With SA/Rejuv it nets 0 to cast and would last long enough. Anything more than 2s duration and you end up gaining initiative in permastealth with OH dagger if traited for SA, which is obviously busted.

‘Just be recast’… um no. Don’t forget that your opponent isn’t sitting idly there and waiting for you to cast. You can watch the D/D video to see what problems D/D faces in general.

ETA: So you mean that reverting DB into a gap closer would change the problems D/D has.. Why wouldn’t I play D/P? It already has all of that.

DeceiverX.8361:

D/D power needs DB and CnD changes to be any good.
DB needs its condi moved to other skills and made into a proper gap close/open, and CnD needs its init dropped to 3 and stealth duration dropped to 2s.
Unblockable is sketchy because CnD still has a pretty high coefficient and could pose major issues in respects to not having counterplay.

Dropping stealth duration means that you won’t be able to even try to bypass the stealth attack cooldown. So no. Unless the stealth attack cooldown is removed as well.

I still want to highlight that the trait isn’t as OP as the devs think it is. It is against mobs, but most attacks are in fact multiple attacks in one and every profession (except thief) can do their auto attacks to get rid of blind.
Maybe you’ll realize that the last balance patch (regarding thief) made the game more balanced by rolling back a lot of what you took from the sets in June 2015 – and the same would be true for CiS. X/D has got no ports – D/P and S/X have, so /D has to have some protection in melee which you are denying the set. Try it in a pvp mode to see whether or not it really was/is that overpowered that it has to be locked. Because If I’m taking it I’m having absolutely no regen, if I don’t take it I’m getting all the damage melee.

Really: Remove the stealth attack cooldown, think of a new grandmaster trait and put CiS how it has been into master.

Noble.2670:

Dats why sbo is pro!

No, that’s why he misses CnD/stealth more than half of the time he attempts to do the triple combo.
He’s good, no doubt about that, but he’s crippeling himself by attempting to do something that is that wonky.

I’m kind of busy in wvw today, so I haven’t read all changes, and I didn’t read the OP.
So far the game feels the balanced it has been the past 2 years. And regarding thief it was the first real proper balance patch for 2 years. I will read through the rest of the professions soon – but so far it seems as if anet really made an effort this time around.
Some things regarding thief I don’t really agree with though:
The 500 more power on Assassins signet – not sure if that really was neccessary. Might be overpowered.
Daggerstorm: Better how it’s now I was actually going to propse the duration change but with a lower cooldown on the skill.
CiS: I don’t get why this trait is unavaillable to us and had to be nerfed yet again. I still maintain that SA needs to be worked on.

The rest is proper and/or really good (as far as I can tell) – I do hope the next real balance patch isn’t in 2 years and that the next expansion won’t wreck everything (again).

babazhook.6805:

Which new one Jana? I am curious as to what you have tried again. Currently I am going back and forth between the new Might Stacker (assassins fury) and the new and improved combined one which now called twin fangs and hard to decide which I prefer.

Twin fangs with D/D.

saerni.2584:

Am I that weirdo Jana? ;p

Alright – I ‘know’ only 2 weirdos using that trait. It probably works with the condi removal DrD has, yes.

Another try: You’re both (Deceiver and Babazook) right. It doesn’t only depend on the set but also the playstyle – if you’re used to switch weapons quite a lot and use utility, then DA is probably better. If you rely on a few timed hits, then CS is. The new trait is a beauty and wheras I’ve had ~9k backstabs on glassy necros I’ve now got higher than 10k. So it is a very nice buff and actually stresses the playstyle it’s ‘designed’ for.

babazhook.6805:

I think when it comes to a which is better, a lot depends on weapons chosen either hand, how long you stick to them and the rest of your build.

IE I have a build with some added boon duration and because he gets fury (and now might) out of CS while there no boons in DA (unless he takes deadly trapper)he does better using CS.

if you still in d/d power you MIGHT want to try the new hidden killer

I’m so used to CnD and steal that it’s hard to get away from it.
Yesterday EU was shut out of the game and I was: “Why did they nerf CiS, did they finally put it in master and just forgot to announce it” – so I’m somehow still stuck at that and it’ll take a while until I realized all that’s new. I’m using thrill of the crime, that’s where I got fury from but the trait was rather underwhelming – the damage modifiers in DA are way more than CS could ever bring.

babazhook.6805:

As stated I did not use signets prior. in old CS Flawless stikes and side strikes were separate. There are now combined into one meaning you get the benefits of both in one trait. This is definitely an improvement as one or the other was weak on its own in old system.

I honestly didn’t realize this I thought they were replaced by the might trait. Changed my gear because I though side strikes was gone – oh my. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I’m not really sure if it’s really better than DA – I’ll probably test it for a bit. If the wvw queue lets me that is.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Jana.6831:

I just switched to DA and am amazed that it works better than CS – how does it work better than before the patch and better than DA?

Ive always used DA< however a guildie uses CS…how did DA help more than CS so I can relay it to him?

Not my question and my question was directed to babazook who wanted to switch from DA to CS.

I just switched to DA and am amazed that it works better than CS – how does it work better than before the patch and better than DA?

I never went DrD because it’s hard to get away from the 3 dodges. Did they say what will happen to daredevil when PoF comes out?

TiNG.3964:

Id love to know the reasoning for this change as it makes no sense to me at all. They have just removed a highly used mechanic from the build making it less fun.

Me too as CiS was rendered basically useless and still is a grandmaster trait.

ETA: Actually aanet need someone who really plays thief and makes builds for each weaponset to see if any builds come short. I really have no idea how to make a proper power D/D build.
To explain why CiS is in my opinion rendered useless: I’ve got a 25% damage reduction as a minor and it’s mostly not criticals that really hurt me when in stealth, it’s conditions and SE was nerfed quite a bit as well – so I basically need trickster to remove the conditions SE won’t. SA needs an overhaul, still. It’s fine for /P and they’ve got an unblockable, undodgable blind on their set, whereas you have to feel OP if you use CiS because someone at anet decided that for thief that very trait is completely overpowered – the trait, not the skills which use blind quite a lot. I’ll also miss the falling damage trait – a nifty thing to escape situations.
And in the end, if you use SA it’s because of SE, would be stupid not to take that trait, so any other trait in that line is obsolete – there’s only one weirdo I know who uses LR.

sbobby.5401:

I always use Hidden Thief and with the right timing you can use CnD+Steal with Hidden Thief so if you miss the backstab you get about 6 – 7 seconds of stealth

With the right timing.. umm – I might try.

ETA: I did and I managed to pull it off (in pve malchors) a couple of times, and it might work if the target isn’t moving, but other than that it’s that wonky, especially with laggy wvw, that I wouldn’t recommend it. It’s great if someone can pull it off and it’s reliable for them, though. But hitting a moving target with CnD and steal alone has got a timeframe of maybe 0,3 seconds, it’s 0,1 if you try to combine hidden killer, CnD and steal.

True that. Good luck to you guys and imagine a like (deleted my youtube channel). Really good footage.

I like it – Tell him that. But steal/CnD combo doesn’t make that much sense anymore anyway (thanks to the botched SA line) – stealth on steal might actually be better.

Weren’t you guys on vabbi/gunnars? Now RoF?

Yes, I’m a worldwide known SoS thief. (Got a lot of kitten for it on ‘my’ server – they’re all pro players :|)
Just forgot to include it in my counter-insults:

Let’s just say: It is better than it used to be and I’m kind of surprised it got a buff. And it’s a good buff.

(The guy whispering me was a D/P DrD)

Oh, and I forgot: Daggerstorm. Has also been nerfed, it’s not only an attack, it’s also a swirl finisher and a reflect. I do agree with the changes (not so much when seeing the proposed skills for the warrior elite: 8 hits in 1,5 seconds – pretty hard to evade) but it’d be nice if the cooldown were adjusted as well – to make up for the duration nerf.

Lord Velar.1509:

I co main a thief and a necros

Deceiver does as well and D/P is pretty much unaffected by this patch whereas D/D took another hit.

They had to nerf signets at some point. Even I was two shotting others while I didn’t play signets. I don’t really get why side strikes was nerfed though, but alas.
The problem in wvw still remains the same – the damage is too high and has been ever since they removed the stats from the traitlines.

Because it’s nerfed into the ground for no reason.
I don’t get why it was ever put into grandmaster anyway, as D/P has got blind on their set whereas D/D needs to ‘waste’ a trait on it.

Nikkinella.8254:

I’d have to agree with you on this. I’m relatively tanky on my thief and still hit everyone for 8k+ backstabs. With the exception of druids of course with their 89088748617 passive abilities and crapton of damage reduction. So, unless its a broken druid you’re fighting, you should be hitting alot harder unless your build is crap. If i can backstab people for 8k in maruaders gear with defender runes…..yeah.

I was fighting a warrior who likely had some tanky gear, with some tanky runes and some tanky traits – so yeah – I should be hitting a lot harder, giving that he hit me harder than I hit him while he’s got a healthpool which is +1.5 times my healthpool. Just go out and play thief some more to see whether or not you hit everybody for 8k or if your build is crap.

XenesisII.1540:

Oh you’re right, that thief is the only one that can pull that off. Please buff thieves along with their upcoming long range sniper rifle. Thank you.

You didn’t get the point. But other than that the skill level of the players has dramatically fallen the past 2 years, so they don’t understand what ‘balance’ even is. So, I don’t blame you – just jump on the ‘NERF THIEVES’ bandwagon every chance you get – the word ‘thief’ is enough – although technically 99,9% of them are daredevils.

Come to think of it: If the only reason for wvw players to buy the expansion is that the new elites are that OP that without you you don’t stand a chance, and if the new elites only suit their respective weapons (or D/P in thieve’s case because anet don’t get that the set itself is OP) : Then I am forced to play a certain set and that’s the opposite of “play how you want”. If you boil all of it down it’s really so sad.

XenesisII.1540:

Jana.6831:

Pls balance your game, ty.

Someone is hitting like a wet noodle.

you do get that it’s in and out and that I’m fighting the same guy with 2,5k damage who’kittenting me for 5+k, right?
I’m a valk/zerker – basically full zerker and playing against some cavalier’s guy – and that stuff isn’t balanced since june 2015 – and that is my major issue with this game.