Guild Wars 2

Asrat.2645:

-Your changelog says you decreased weaponrange to 900 on some skills, the document itself doesnt reflect that. I wouldnt really like it either.
-In general range is missing for tracer
-I would recommend you to also put subsequent, longer posts into spoilers, like I did with my first one. We have enough wall of text in here.

Actually, I hate “spoilers” – makes stuff unredible for me. I guess that’s personal preference.

Ok, good to know, no these 4 condis aren’t cleared anymore and yeah that hampers with thief mechanics massively “Woohoo a 2k backstab ‘cause I can’t get fumble off and the duration is ~a felt minute – great, I don’t have other stuff to worry about”.
ETA: I will try confusion again when I can, but I’m 99,9% certain that torment isn’t removed. Would be great if someone else could test it in wvw or pvp and wvw – need to find a friendly enemy to do some test runs and that might take a while or won’t happen.

I did use dash, but as a D/D power thief I don’t really evade attacks – I really would have to relearn thief and completely change my playstyle to make DrD work on D/D – or any other line besides SA. SA and DrD would be solid to get rid of conditions, but then I would lack damage and also the reduced cooldown on my heal, on my beloved elite and on steal and the only interrupt I have.
Still, I think some kind of reversed SE (per pulse) would be nice to have in another traitline.

Maybe D/D is just outdated and really needs utility on the weaponset – either way all the evade reliant traits still wouldn’t work with (power) D/D. – Even if I do use death blossom, which I do, it’s maybe once or twice per fight. Condis are applied a lot faster than I would be able to get them off. And since I’m that close to my opponent I often dodge rather randomly, so a lot of my dodge evades would “miss”.

That was just the explanation why I’m even running SA although I think the traitline is a mess. And actually I also think that SE is a mess – when I’m hit by condis it’s often 5+ and not all of them are intended to be cleared, that’s mostly 2 or 3 of the 5. An additional one I can get off by using withdraw which works every 15 seconds, so I’m stuck with at least one (ETA: Depending on the condis I’m stuck with removes trickster one condition when I use withdraw – If I’m hit with immobilize and whatever condis withdraw removes as well, it’s them and an addional one – but the chances that I can get the conditions not cleared by SE anymore off are really low).
The most annoying condis right now aren’t removed by SE: Confusion, Torment, Fumble and Fear. Your revealed would help with that but it can only be seen as an additional help, the condi cleanse for thief would still be too little. = Thus I don’t run DrD.
The problem again is that I’m a roamer and zergling – and don’t want to run away from anyone.
It’s not really the fault of your suggested traitline, it’s the fault of the botched SA line and also of how “condis work” – so maybe yes, all condi clears thief has got should be buffed, even your’s to “per pulse” probably.
I can’t compete against a condi build with CS, T, DrD, with CS, SA, T I can.

Yeah well, what really got my hopes up was learning that Karl is responsible for the next wvw balance patch.

Dawdler.8521:

I honestly dont understand why people keep trying to place commander on high podiums and as such they need to go through 8 years of military academy, have an IQ of 200 and a fabulous hair or they are not worthy of leading.

No. What you want from a glorious commander has nothing to with the ingame cost of the tag. That great commanders have taken to a certain style of leading is a whole other matter that has to do with players, not the tag system.

What people want is to not waste their time and a bad commander is wasting time – the time of the people following him, the time of the other commander who would lead if there weren’t already one.
A commander directs when to push and retreat and that is crucial and not everyone can do it.
I’ve been in situations in which commanders let build catas next to a wall which still had their cannons up – and that over and over (nowadays people are smart enough to not need commands to take that cannons down).
You have to know the terrain, all siege you can and should use, the spots for it, sneaky points (and of course how to fight) – otherwise people will just leave and that doesn’t do your server any favours.
But (to OP) – if you really want more commanders start a collection – I’ve given gold to quite a few people who wanted to buy a tag.

ETA: If I know the commander leading our zerg isn’t any good and that we will lose every fight I turn off GW and go knitting.
ETA²: I have been a PvE player once and we had commanders and even then we rather wanted the tags to be earned – I think most of us. I do like my tag and I see the use of it although I’m not leading anyone. A compromise would be either a tag that can be earned and one that can be bought, both being different, or that the cost of it really hurts which it does right now. If people believe in you they will give you gold.

X T D.6458:

The problem is not so much about PPT being a part of WvW, its that the scoring system is outdated and does not reflect the dynamic nature of wvw. Things like backcapping, nightcapping, ktraining etc w/e you want to call it ruins a lot of effort people make towards generating points for their server and simply leaves a bad taste in players mouths for this type of gameplay choosing instead to just go for fights and not care about PPT or scores.

There should also be some kind of PPC system. We have all been in that situation, where you spend an hour taking a fully upgraded keep defended by a blob, and just happened to cap it right after the tick, and 5 minutes later…its gone, and you got nothing for it. At least with PPC, which should also reflect the upgrade scoring system I mentioned, every time you capture something you can contribute to your server.

I agree with that but not with that:

X T D.6458:

One of the problems with the current scoring system is that it is imbalanced, why is a paper keep worth the same as a fully upgraded keep? I have proposed several times that this needs to be reworked by making scoring reflect the upgrade of the objective, the more upgraded it is the more points its worth.

For example
t1 keep-10 PPT
t2 keep- 15 PPT
t3 keep- 25 PPT

I would change the (in this post) first two points before changing the third as we’re still not really certain how the upgrades will work in the end.
So, take an outnumbered server who’s unable to defeat the enemy blob but can cap most of their structures back nonetheless – they would get less points for their efforts while the bigger group can safely either let their structures upgrade (because all the outnumbered server can do is trying to hold/backcap their stuff) or have someone who is doing that for them.
I really think having a dynamic “PPT” depending on how many players on each side would be the best idea – with the bigger group still having a slight advantage.

ETA: I’m still not really sure about changing the “Tick” – have to think about that a bit more – you have a point and that is what is often forgotten by anet, I think – we don’t go to a keep and cap it, it often takes us hours of work for which we aren’t rewarded – just to “wvw players get better rewards than they think” – doesn’t mean I want better rewards but that those who complain they get too little have a point as theory is something different than reality. (And wvw something different than EotM).
ETA²: I actually think that this very case is neglectable – it’s 35 points different max, it doesn’t happen that often and defending a structure still is easier than capping it if you intend to. Still “for hours without doing anything else” is valid and should at least be recognized.

I get that P/P looks cooler – I was using P/P at first too (D/D being my main set) – but SB has got a lot of utility I wouldn’t want to miss.
In fact all my 5 thieves are running with all weapons thief has got (minus staff, only my main has got one) – be prepared to use/make use of all weapons thief has got.
That being said: P/P is single target damage – someone suggested taking S/P as a second set and that would deal with multiple mobs at once – the better options than that are Staff and SB. But you can also do that with D/D and deathblossom but that requires a bit more skill/patience – just try what you like better.
Btw: I got used to love my SB – doesn’t really matter if it hasn’t got the 21 century idea of a thief.

So and now you think a bit and realize that adjusting the scoring would likely preserve servers as they are (except a few) and everybody can keep what they’re used to.

That’s great and what has that got to do with anything? =)

I hope I got your point:
We have solo roaming, havoc, small scale, zergs and blobs on nearly every EU server from rank 1 to rank 24, depending the time. We really have one prime time in which nearly every server manages to get a blob (50-80) together.
If you change it so that servers don’t “have to have” a 24/7 coverage, you open up these choices (roaming, zerg, blob) as servers don’t have to be stacked anymore to be able to compete.

ETA: The differences in our rankings are often because of night capping – PPK works against that which is a great change.
But I think you somehow won’t get my point, no matter what I say – it’s ok.

And what do you want now? server merge or no server merge- everything as it is or megaservers?
And I doubt you’re really fighting blobs (35+) if you say the situation on your server is dire.

ETA: I think you didn’t really get my point.
The problems on NA are because everybody is obsessed with having a 24/7 coverage – we were on IoJ as well. Those who can do that best is gold, yes.
If you now change the score to count per players online/playing on each server, then there wouldn’t be a need to have a 24/7 coverage. (it’s a bit more complicated as this could easily be abused but just as easily be forseen and worked against by the devs). Not only that but smaller servers would be buffed during both their servers (equal) prime time. That would solve a lot of the problems both EU and NA have.
(That is the essence of my points – I said a lot more but you’re probably too tired or confused to understand that right now)

What’s blob servers now?
You have to take the score at least halfway seriously if you don’t want to face the same opponents for months. I still have friends on IoJ and they’re not happy, they like to see “blobs” again.
Try to get my point, ok?

I’m trying to tell (all of) you that things are different between NA and EU – what’s bringing you guys on NA down is your obsession with having a 24/7 coverage – probably due to the fact that you have oceanic players – so all of you are stacking on the server that has got the best coverage.
A lot of what makes the difference in ranks on EU is down to whether or not a server has got night karma trains, so basically also “coverage”. But as far as I know no one really tries to buy guilds from NA to cover any time zones – unlike NA.
That’s why I think the scoring should be adjusted to how many players on each server are online, so that karma trains aren’t as effective, PPT wise, anymore. That would buff all smaller servers. The scoring then has to be further adjusted and it might be a lot of work to do that but I don’t think you’ll ever achieve a 24/7 coverage. And by merging servers on EU you’d create hour long queues during prime on the lower tier or every server – we’re fine as it is (with some exceptions), the only problem we have is actually night cappers.

ETA: As you can see we moved up with IoJ rather quickly (it was 2 months from 16 or 17 to 9) – We could because we beat zergs twice our size (it was rare that we faced an equal zerg) – it was still zergs though. That was 2 years ago, before the ferocity patch. Also siege worked a lot better when defending – I know a lot of people call siege too effective – I don’t really think so, but nowadays I’m not facing zergs anymore but blobs. Also teh range of the classes has increased, the camera has changed, so it’s very unlikely that an AC will last longer than 2 mins max). Long story short: Back then the smaller group could outplay the bigger which is very hard nowadays. If you buff smaller servers so that skill counts again and not just their size, then you’ll make these servers more interesting again so people might transfer/stay there. I guess you get what I’m trying to explain.

Are you talking to me, Ricky?
Servers I’ve been to: IoJ (NA), rank 17 or 16 when I started, 9 when I left them 3 months later, Miller’s Sound (EU), rank 20 or even lower when I joined, 18 or 17 when I left, SBI (NA) – too short to even count, Gunnar’s Hold (EU) 15 when I joined, 15 when I left 10 months later, Desolation (EU) 3 when I joined, 1 when I left a month afterwards, Piken (EU) no idea, have been there for too short. Now Gunnar’s again, rank 17.

A one size fits it all concept for NA and EU would kill most if not all EU servers and lead to a mass exodus.
I really think that not megaservers are the solution but scoring. Right now smaller servers have little chance and as soon as it’s not “the bigger the better” anymore smaller servers might become more interesting again.

ETA: And Ricky: We have it all on nearly all servers on EU – from 7 to 12 PM CET there’s blobs all around, the rest of the day it’s havoc and roaming.

Yes, I can see this working for D/D – Impossible escape, Ink Purge and Quick reflexes.
Problem for me is though that I’m a weirdo (as all of you have already figured out) and usually only use D/D in 1 vs 1 and SB during zerg fights. I don’t need the extra initative of trickery for my D/D, but I do need the cooldown on steal, the interrupt and the cooldown on withdraw – all of it is nice to have in zerg fights as well, where I don’t really need SA which I only need for CiS and SE for my D/D anyway. I’d love to replace SA, but none of the condi clears of other lines is good enough. If I were solemly a ganker I could probably replace trickery, if I were only a mindless zergling I could probably ditch SA, but unfortunately I want to be both.

So yes, vanilla thief might stay as it is but every elite which will come on top of that probably won’t be able to show its full potential as long as the core is that messed up.
I’m not that into Rifle, but I do like some of the ideas I’ve read so far, I’m trying to get some concentration (and enthusiasm for rifle) together later on to read through it and make a constructive feedback.

Serious.7083:

For this same reason plenty of people buy the commander tag but won’t tag up because they lack experience or are frightened of bad feedback.

Would be nice if there was somewhere giving instructions on how to command in WvW.

I’ve come across a lot of commanders and actually think that really good commanders are naturals. You can learn the basics of fights but that doesn’t make you see where and when to hit and that might be the most important things when it comes to fights.
I see these kinds of things, but I main a thief, am the probably worst guard NA/EU and hate TS with a passion – all you can do is to care about your class mechanics and follow me. We did this today and it worked because I have great guys on my server – otherwise it wouldn’t. The commander is a huge part of the fight but not all of it. Maybe that’s why we can defeat even blobs without anyone commanding.

Ok – then I hope other people will bicker as well.
But SB #3 was changed to what it is a few months ago – so it behaves like it should “always away from your opponent” question is who and where the opponent is in a blob fight.
Maybe it’s the same with asura ball.

Btw: I was just commander leading the zerg against a bigger group and we won WOOHOO HOOO – not saying that the guys carried me, no they didn’t!

Peazomanco.7259:

4.- It is the hardest thing in my opinion, this is a personal choice from each player I´d merge some of the less populated servers and leave 18 servers in EU. Letting this population join other server with same flag.

This is us (rank 17) against rank 21:
If we were merged half of us wouldn’t be able to play as we’d stuck in a queue.
(Also we’re speaking different languages)

ETA: Didn’t really get your last sentence in the first read through. Then thought that this might actually work, then had a look at the ranks and servers – that would lead to another imbalance: We could merge the french servers and there’s enough lower EU servers to be merged with higher EU servers, only one lower German server and no Spanish server – I don’t know if you get my point: Some servers would get a pretty big influx of players and they’re not that weak already.

Ok, I thought the utility was a trait (yes, I’m tired) – a lot of your ideas sound really nice and like stuff every thief needs right now.
So yes, I’d like to say: Go for it – but then the rest of thief would still lie in shatters – add some nice traits for my Bad-Cat, so I can take that line without taking rifle – and I’m likely in.
I’d still like it a lot better if the core game were adjusted so we don’t have to have additional traitlines/elites to deal with reveal.

No I mean the whole builds that will emerge after your spezialisation.
What happens when your spezialisation is put on top of existing traits.
Your Bad-Cat might have 2-3 (counting Mug as a heal) traits which heal, f.e. Other thieves have got 2 or 1 or none (like me).
In my opinion: As long as the current traits are uncertain it’s really hard to create a new line.

All good – we’re a server full of trolls and a lot of them love to troll me (which is appreciated) – that was just a humorous try to say that I want what we had and not more and more new stuff that’s put ontop of already existing problems.

ETA: Because when I wrote that I didn’t know that a new expansion was already around the corner. But I stick to: This game won’t survive another expansion (if it’s that close to the last – and also not if it’s that wonky like HoT).

Alright, Haven’t heard that they already announced the next expansion.
The problem (I have) with your ideas (I did try to read through all of it) is that they don’t include the existing traits and we have no idea what is going to happen to them in “nearest” cough future.

Looking at my FL I’d say that this game won’t survive another Expansion.

ETA: Doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate any efforts – I’m out – hope you guys have some good ideas and discussions =)

ETA²: No, it didn’t – I just think “Daredevil” is too tame – I’d rather have a Bad-Kitten (without the filter) – and that shemale is because my char and I are being a running gag on my server.
ETA³: You could as well call it “Running Gag Josteinn” – but that wouldn’t sound Bad-Cat.
Oh, btw:
Bat-Cat

Ok, could your next specialisation be called *Bad-cat Josteinn"?
It’s a D/D stealth thief and a shemale actually (it’s complicated).

Halfway on topic: I appreciate the efforts to craft new elite spezialisations but I don’t think all hope is lost on the current messy balance – so I’d rather have this sorted out before another massive change, that’s why I don’t really get all these “rifle” threads.

They already said they are going through that thread – I don’t think spamming more threads of the same kind is helpful. And I actually have got more than 1 priority, guess most people have as wvw is complex.

Mike O Brien.4613:

1. Stability & skill balance
2. Fix or revert DBL
3. Rewards
4. Population balance
5. Scoring

1. Stability & skill balance
Yes – Although I’d love this to be a work in progress and having someone monitoring and adjusting everything in wvw if necessary – class balance, zerg balance, siege balance, structure balance. I’m fine if not everything is perfect as long as I know it is indeed a work in progress – changes to wvw are mostly better if they’re gradually, I think.

2. Fix or revert DBL
I’m fine with both – I think the easiest fix for DBL is to open the WPs for the server who’s BL it is – we really don’t have enough people to be on all maps.

3. Rewards
Personally I don’t care too much about rewards but it would be great if there was something that would make people new to wvw want to try it – currently there’s EotM and most probably won’t go farther.

4. Population balance and 5. Scoring
That one is tricky. I’d actually like scoring balance to be before population balance. On EU nearly every server manages to get a blob together during prime time (I’ve been from bronze to gold – it looks pretty much the same everywhere from 8 pm to midnight) – all 4 EU servers I’ve been on had a community (the NA servers as well but it’s been a while, can’t really say how they are now) – merging servers or guild alliances would destroy that as half of us are in very small or personal or no guilds – and we’re pretty much the heart of it all – roamers who don’t need a commander to do things.
ETA²: I’d like to see a buff to smaller servers before everything that hasn’t got a certain size is being merged – buffs can be: Scoring, class/skill/stability balance. To me this is really important as people would be more motivated to fight on if their efforts weren’t fruitless just because they’re fewer people.

The most important thing to me is class (and skill) balance though. And keeping my server.

Phew nervous I hope I’ve said everything that’s on my mind as now I’ve got to be silent forever..

ETA: I don’t want to keep the lowest servers from merging though – I don’t know them and maybe they want a merge.

I made a similar thread a few months ago – and here again. Part of the problem being a thief is that one is reliant on the game mechanics. I have just been in a zerg fight, was immobilized and tried to evade the traps with withdraw and diabeling shot, but the best I could do was to get myself right into the traps as I couldn’t change the position of my character as I was immobilized. I have no idea who wanted this but I’d like to be able to get into the direction I’m sitting again.
Also the channeling of npcs and also other classes is a pain – I think that has been better back in the day, but I can imagine that players new to thief redeem backstab to be impossible to land.
Then the camera changes – I can’t twist and turn like I used to and am actually tired of trying to adjust my mouse which became pretty impossible.
Also, the Chinese New Years event patch February 2015 led to CnD missing more often than it hits as the enemy just has to cough to “evade”.

So, anet, if you intend to buff thief in a few years, please don’t forget that a lot of what’s bringing thief down is the wonky game mechanics.

Sin.4130:

Chiccotot.7296:

just be thankful you didnt suffer 2 months of crap match ups like what happened to Isle of Janthir when it was t3 last august/september.

Basically then, there were 4 servers with tier2 population/points and each week, one of these four will drop down to tier3 messing everyone else.

it was the beginning of IoJ Exodus 2, and we havent gotten back up again, ever since.

I feel sorry for Isle of Janthir community, another example how bad this system is. It should protect “unlucky” server from this kind of situation. Why it constantly keeps matching vs overstacked servers some unlucky ones is beyond my mind

The problems on NA are completely different from those EU has got.
I think it’s great that we have weird and unpredicted matchups (on EU) – I fought CD and YB for 3 months straight when I started with wvw.
But, people on NA want to have a 24/7 coverage which will never work out, so they think everything that hasn’t got coverage in all time zones is crap, so they move up, ‘cause more people = better, right? That led to a massive imbalance (plus tier locking) and that led to stale matchups or really bad suprises if a random matchup comes up. If you hadn’t locked tiers, wouldn’t chase the 24/7 coverage etc. the differences between the servers wouldn’t be as bad as they are.

Edit: Grammar

It’s hard to tell who’s worse off as both have got different playstyles – in a 1 vs 1, equal skill, the warrior will likely win.
But: We have been uncompetitive since June – so this isn’t news.
My one buddy comes every other month to tell me he found a build that works, then leaves for a few weeks, comes back, tells me thief is crap, thinks he found another build that might work, leaves again… He found a working build yesterday – he’ll be gone in a week.
My other buddies have left.

Magira.6390:

Jana.6831:

Magira.6390:

Jana.6831:

And don’t call yourself solo roamer, please. Yes, I’m a bit insulted.
Roamers used to fight against each other – might have been one of the roles which took the most skill – it’s gone now since no one really dares to (truly) solo roam anymore, partly because of the botched June patch and because of the elites and because no one else solo roams anymore. Still – it’s more than fighting npcs.

There is not much that care less for me than your desires and your feelings.^^

That’s good, sounds really social and stuff

You want to tell me my style. You will be ignored. Very easily.

I’m so hurt!

Rednik.3809:

Quadox.7834:

That literally does not matter whatsoever in the context and does not in any way shape or form prove that anet never would “change all other classes instead of changing one”.

Oh, that will be easy to prove. Just wait till next balance patch, though I’m sure you will quietly disappear after that.

Not so sure about that actually. The next balance patch might be the breaking point. In good old anet tradition they ignored the existing problems for too long (now 9 months). A lot of who enjoyed the game before left – a lot of who didn’t play it before joined – so they have a different playerbase. They waited too long to make this game more skillbased again, if they do it now it might led to a lot of the new players leaving. And they probably know that, so it might well be that this game stays brainless and that was that.

I don’t my main being gay is already a running gag on my server – no need to fuel the fire by giving him angel wings.

Thanks a lot!
That does look pretty good – although plain black would be more of my taste (you can’t imagine how hard it was to get a nearly black SB (but maybe you tried as well, so you know))

Does anyone have pictures of a thief holding it?
It’s not too bad (the whole set is too colourful for my taste), but I’d like to see the idle melee staff animation.

Magira.6390:

Jana.6831:

And don’t call yourself solo roamer, please. Yes, I’m a bit insulted.
Roamers used to fight against each other – might have been one of the roles which took the most skill – it’s gone now since no one really dares to (truly) solo roam anymore, partly because of the botched June patch and because of the elites and because no one else solo roams anymore. Still – it’s more than fighting npcs.

There is not much that care less for me than your desires and your feelings.^^

That’s good, sounds really social and stuff

<— D/D thief, I hate D/P
Also: This is pvp and I play wvw – the “balance” that happened last patch was just rune nerfes – wvw is still as it used to be.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Bunker Meta 2.0?

If I were really bored I’d search for one of my posts which I made directly after the last patch “The bunker meta isn’t over, btw” and tell you: I told you so.

You can always pray for the next balance patch, right?
And come to think of it: anet really should employ me because, although I am a potato, I see all of this right when it happens.

And don’t call yourself solo roamer, please. Yes, I’m a bit insulted.
Roamers used to fight against each other – might have been one of the roles which took the most skill – it’s gone now since no one really dares to (truly) solo roam anymore, partly because of the botched June patch and because of the elites and because no one else solo roams anymore. Still – it’s more than fighting npcs.

At least you changed chunk to gunk – thanks for that (it seriously hurt my eyes)

On topic: I don’t care anymore – thief is dead anyway.

ETA: To not sound like a sour kitten (which I do no matter what I guess) :
Even if they nerf a lot of the passives of other classes, my D/D still would be unviable. Even if they nerf classes and rework SA so I can use CiS and SRej, nothing would change. Even if they did all of that, the evades without evades would still be there, my CnD would miss more often than it hits anyway. Even if they fix all of the former there’s still forced reveal which turns me into a lootbag. Even if they fix and remove all of the above I would still be stealthed non stop by allies = messing up my “rotations” = yes, I finally lost hope.

They can change throw gunk into throw chunk – it still wouldn’t mean a thing.

Truearrow.3527:

Hell no, that little “program” is responsible for the changes to stability, no more adopt a nerf.

And also to the terrain changes made to EB – I agree with the filling of QL but am not so sure about blocking the lion in red keep.
I’d say: No more adopting a dev until at least some of them are willing to play outside of T1 NA.

Anomaly.7612:

Link.1049:

It’s your build. Don’t run full glass. Also, if you’re running in a zerg you are backline, you dodge in, you dodge out. Take out the weak. If you’re roaming, you need to be comfortable flipping a camp on your own, and know when you’re outmatched. Shortbow 5 is your friend.

What’s the fastest way to flip a camp with a Thief? Do you swap out D/P for S/P?

Shortbow and daggerstorm – the rest is up to you.

Leaa.2943:

I never understood why we still have so many servers when those in the bottom are undermanned and the wvw you know about have nothing to do with the wvw we have in the top tiers. In EU you have populated servers up to rank 14, and some even above that.

That’s only half of the truth – On EU there’s a real prime time and the rest of the day it’s mostly roamers and night cappers. So most servers are able to blob in the evenings, no matter the rank, and most servers are deserted at night. (I have been from bronze to gold on EU and solo capped towers throughout as i was alone – on EB). Coverage still is a problem but the biggest problem are in fact night cappers on EU. I know that the problems on NA are differently and I hope anet knows that as well.

Before June and Hot classes had got gaps – now they’re all that well designed that they leave no opening when repeating their rotation – so in a fight everybody just clicks their memorized buttons and that was it – we could be replaced by npcs – wouldn’t make any difference – so yes: nerf everything and buff nothing (except CnD to how it used to be before June).

Oh noz, IoJ, my first and favourite server! (That’s genuine, btw).

TheBravery.9615:

all while not considering the full picture- taking into account 9 professions, over 600 traits, 1,000 skills, Stat combinations, sigils, and runes.

As you can see, balance is not something easily accomplished, and the recent balance patches may have been the result of nonconstructive complaints and poorly thought out suggestions with group think.

How about anet does the work and doesn’t listen to the players?
I agree that it’s not something accomplished easily, still it’s their game so it should be possible that they can do it.
And yes, I’m kittened because their lack of interest in balancing their game led to players competing like little children for the attention of their parents.
I’m pretty sure that if anet took control and people had faith in their balancing again there would be 382792837498273948 less complaint threads.
I’m even writing in all these threads (on the thief forum) (although I’m really sick and tired of it) cause I know how dangerous it is when some guy with serious L2P issues comes to demand a nerf – it worked too long.

I disagree with all of Ario.8964 ‘s suggested changes to thief, btw – and me writing this is another case of a frightened little child that might have taken his toy away because his sibling said so – if balance wasn’t player based in this game I could just ignore it. You can’t imagine how much this annoys me.

The problem is that wvw crowd and forums usually don’t go together. Also that we’ve got NA and EU servers which have got different rules.
So, most wvw players aren’t on this forum and unfortunately didn’t take it seriously enough before the changes came, so no one really heard of them.
But I guess most long threads of some long time commanders I’ve read hold what I want in wvw. And if you read through all posts on this forum you’ll be able to find what people want – there’s a lot of stuff that’s being repeated but not argued about – and that is what people want.
So in the end it’s:

Balance
Less pirate ship
Unique rewards
A less complicated BL
Less gimmicks
BLs being strategical again like the old ones used to be

ETA: And also there’s the coverage/population problem – but you can’t really find a solution to that especially not since NA and EU are completely different when it comes to that. I really hope they don’t implement a guild alliances or megaserver system, I want to keep my server with all its roamers who would all be gone if anything of this were brought into the game.

ETA²: Tell me if my perception of what’s repeated and wanted is biased – it might be as this is (minus the rewards) what I want. (But the rewards might get new players into wvw which would be a good thing – so I support this).

Skynet.7201:

snip

This might have been the post I agreed the most with (really, I cosign nearly every point).

The idea of having every inch meaning something is interesting, have to think about that – but I disagree with NPCs having further purpose (the centaurs etc were nerfed, they once were able to cap camps)
EB has always been my favourite map and I never really minded the npcs. in some cases they were rather useful actually.
But: What if they weren’t there? Would we really miss anything? If it’s not npcs caring for camps it has got to be players and not having all these stuff would mean that I don’t have to care for flipping or killing them. It can be a nice past time when nothing else is up but in the evenings it’s a distraction from why I am in wvw: to outsmart and fight other players.
I’ll go with one of your other points: Fix wvw (and balance) before implementing something new.

ETA: And I actually don’t get why people complain about zergs. Why should people be forced to split up just because others dislike zergs/blobs? That brought us the problems we have now: stability nerf which made it really hard to defeat a bigger group. Then came some more implementions which were meant to “bust zergs” but buffed them instead. So how about turning back the clock smartly and really make it possible again for small groups to defeat bigger groups if they’re playing smart? Then you have the choice to be either a blob or a zerg or a group and defeat the next bigger group. Nowadays you have to be at least equal size to have a reasonable chance- and with that smaller servers really hurt a lot more than neccessary.
And I don’t mind if the balance of pvp/pve and wvw is finally divided – before June I could use one build in all game modes, that ship has sailed with the trait merge, so I have to switch my playstyles in each modes anyway = I decide to just play one anymore.

musu.9205:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Rotating defensive skills coupled with stealthing are the only major issues I have with the class and a big part of why they’re my most hated match up. Nothing more frustrating than feeling like your opponent is either blocking, evading, reflecting, invulnerable or invisible 75% of the time you spend fighting them. It might not be the exact case, but that’s definitely how it feels.

Can’t say I think the class deserves any nerfs but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t wish they deserved some… They’re still as plentiful and trolly as ever in WvW.

EDIT: Also this just occurred to me; Mesmer is the class that hates to let you do anything, lol. That’s why a lot of people, myself especially, hate to fight them. They don’t like you to attack them with high access to Confusion. They don’t like you to move with easy access to Torment. They don’t like you to range them with high access to reflects. They don’t like you to physically hit them with some strong invulnerability skills. They don’t like you to try to attack them with insta-CC’s and they definitely don’t like you to be anything other than a defenseless Moa. What are you left with? Pray to Grenth they’re bad.

THE FAMOUS 6/6/6/6/6/6/6 MES BUILD you were against is op i think . so please nerf human logic and sanity .and dont worry ,you have none of those things in your brain .

guys at least , trying not to sound like an entire noob isnt that hard .
Also wiki is hardy for your complaints http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mesmer
at least you will know little more about mes than whatever in your brain .

wiki cant fix other problem like lying or being pathetic .

Sorry but I agree with Spell. So it’s two idiots who need to L2P.

Anomaly.7612:

Yeah I use valk armor, valk/zerk trinks, zerk back and zerk weps and it just has no sustain. -.-

Yeah – mostly the fault of the balance, ascended plays a very small role in that – I’m the same gear in ascended and have no sustain either.
If you’re happy with playing other classes just try an other class in exotic gear and see if it’s the same for them.

Anomaly.7612:

Yeah, once I have the money I’m going to drop close to $700 on this game to deck out my Thief in ascended and legendary gear. Doing WvW in exo’s and ascended trinks is just torture.

If the balance weren’t that kitten it wouldn’t be too bad.
I started out as a valk/zerker D/D thief with a 200 ping, exo gear and ruby orbs and it still kind of worked because my spec wasn’t nerfed into oblivion back then.

Rev sword skills need a target – that’s the difference and that’s what maybe should happen with most channeled skills. But I guess people already said it many times.
The problem is that the damage is far too high to be ignored.

I have one kudos to give to anet: Steal. I noticed on rev that my skills wouldn’t go on full cooldown if the target was out of range, which was nice and which wasn’t the same with thief. Then they changed it on thief so you couldn’t steal anymore without a target – that led to an outcry (with a reason, I agree with that) and then they changed it to: You can steal without target and get all the buffs from your steal and if you steal with target but are out of range your steal wouldn’t go on cooldown – that was a nice compromise. So: They do things right sometimes.