If there were unlimited space on a team, I am sure people would not mind as much, but if there is a queue on the map and you are running around with a drum, most people will probably wish you to log out so someone that is actually there to fight could have a place on the map who is waiting to do so.
He Man still fought like a young god. He was a kitten suicide commander but otherwise we were glad to have him.
You can do both and actually measuring everything on whether or not there is a queue and stuff is rather silly but anet promoted this kind of thinking as the bigger the better – smaller groups are automatically at disadvantage – shouldn’t be and wasn’t back in the day.
Alright, got your point slightly wrong and decided it’s be better I deleted the whole post of mine.
Anyway: Toughness is against power attacks, Vitality is against condi attacks. Dire has got it all and if condi players were a bit more skilled in general I would have a really tough time taking them down. So those who say Dire is “op” have got a point and in fact if it weren’t that rune would be in PvP – it fun actually that some things are still in wvw but not pvp anymore but the game is balanced around pvp – go figure.
The comparison between condi and power thief is rather random btw as it largely depends on the weaponsets both are using and also on the traitlines. I can tell you that I killed most condi thieves with daggerstorm back in the day – but i had no chance against a condi thief of equal skill.
This guy did this on our server.
He had all instruments one could get in this game and forced me to turn my volume up.
Fun times – they really were – just that we had to get SM all the time as he was afraid Skeletor would get it and it was his home castle, you know?
Thief really needs a simple button that makes it enter stealth
Blinding Powder – that’s usually enough. All my other chars have got their invulnerabilities on that utility slot, so whenever I get into a “OH KITTEN” situation I use that – works. But if you want to kill someone you have to work for it – Assassin’s 101.
As far as Shadow Refuge and the removal of reveal; it’s a very important mechanic to have in the game. It was implemented for a reason, because the thief was wildly OP when it wasn’t in the game.
Not one of this discussions again
Give me 5 minutes before I read the rest – I need to get my head off the desk before I can go on…
Wasn’t this always the case, the marker? Have never noticed but I think it was.
Btw: Enemy siege is bright red as well, only enemy npcs or players are maroon (yes, I tagged along).
ETA: I think enemies used to have a red marker above their heads and allies a green one. Now allies have the red and enemies the green. Yellow opponents have the yellow though.
Can we just revert this patch?! Makes no sense at all.
I might be mistaken but it looks like they changed a lot more than this. If you just leftclick on (enemy) NPCs or players, you’ll now get markers matching the server/team-color.
Your circle looks maroon in both cases – so where did they change “a lot more than that”?
ETA: And all enemies I have been able to tag today have the same maroon circle – all friendly stuff the old bright red, yes, but no green or blue.
As far as Shadow Refuge and the removal of reveal; it’s a very important mechanic to have in the game. It was implemented for a reason, because the thief was wildly OP when it wasn’t in the game.
SR is a powerful utility but shouldn’t be the be-all-end-all solution to stealth/safety. If it removed revealed, there would be no way to deal with a thief using it aggressively, as stealth attacks inflicting self-reveal would get the effect removed and the thief could just keep using stealth attacks with free stealth pulses, and the utility is already considered to be quite strong; there’s no real justification in buffing it more.
Saw this too late, sorry.
With the revealed skills as they are and SR – SR is useless as it is as it’s a gigantic red circle which is in most cases covered by the AoE that reveal. So, if you think SR is “OP” then it has been since launch. And people always had enough AoE to hit into the circle. Surprise, I backstabbed a thief hiding in it today – he was surprised and ran out of it. (He was no noob so he hid in a corner which I guessed) – once upon a time not everything has been called OP but people learned how to play.
Did anyone call for this? Like an QOL change? And anet didn’t think that making an ally green or blue and leave an enemy as it is would be an option? We now have to go with a really badly visible target circle? Makes really sense. Anet, please, revert. I’m taking the wrath of whoever wanted this.
Btw: What I’d like to change is that I can target stuff without annoying my group with that. So a personal and a group target – otherwise everything was fine like it was.
Then how about making two revealed? Forced and self inflicted. You can remove the forced with SoS (or any revamped signet) but not the self inflicted.
ETA. And yes, most other classes need some tweaks here and there. Revealed is really something I don’t get – right now none of the classes that have it needs it.
How about revamping signet of shadows? Someone made a thread about the “upcoming changes” before the last patch and surprise; half of it was true and one of the changes was that SoS would remove revealed when activated. It doesn’t have to be an elite?
ETA: But someone else said that SR should be immune to revealed – and I think that is the smartest approach to get revealed into line (I’d rather have them take it out of the game altogether with all the stealth other classes have – I’m not jealous but it doesn’t make sense. “A mesmer will now outstealth you, chances that you hit him are low anyway as all the clones get into the way, so good luck with your backstab, mkay?!” and I hate engis stealthing me each and everywhere).
And I’m asking what in particular you think needs to be changed to bring them into “balance.” Just saying “balance it” doesn’t help Anet or anyone understand what is being proposed as a practical matter.
Poison has always been 33% reduction in heal power. Do you think the 33% itself is overpowered? Is it the duration of poison some skills apply? Torment, same questions. Is it the duration or the damage or the mechanic you think shouldn’t be as strong? Taunt, is it the duration or the mechanic itself?
I kind of already answered that, maybe you read my ETA too late. I can manipulate my opponent’s playstyle with condis. So I’m not only doing damage but “control” my enemy. Since there’s typical power and condi sets (D/D being hybrid) sometimes these control mechanisms are a bit too much (torment and taunt on the same set – haven’t seen it in action but I bet that the enemy will get the full torment damage because of taunt).
Most condi clears are selective, so I have to chose which heal I want to take against what condis – trickster helps with that but the old SE still was better, in my opinion.
So, if you’re a condi build chances are that a few of your condis can’t be cleared by the condi cleanse of the enemy. So it’s not just “bring condi clear!!”. And I think anet should have a look into that and bring condis on par with power.
Impair in what way? If we are talking about balance we should know what the problem is exactly. Is it damage we are talking about?
“Impair in what way” are you serious?
Poison reduces my heal by 33%, freeze lets my skills recharge a lot more slowly and I’m also moving more slowly, torment hurts me more if I run, taunt makes me run towards my enemy… need more?
ETA: And yes, condis should be balanced all around, their damage, their duration, how easily they can be applied and be taken off. Right now they’re overpowered.
If condi thief is cheese then might as well just say you would like all damage conditions removed from the game.
Conditions also impair my game play.
Condi revenant has got torment and taunt on the same weaponset – nifty!
Condis shouldn’t be removed but balanced – the latter might never happen.
Where’s your second sigil of bloodlust? Or just forgot to put it into that sheet?
Tell me how it works with D/D – I’d say you have to little power to pull D/D off, but maybe I’m wrong – so I’m curious.
I’m using daggerstorm and steal to catch fleeing melee groups – works really well with commanders who know me, and then go for that group = with commanders who think alike (can’t really explain that).
Otherwise daggerstorm is great but works best with groups = waterfields, all other fields, running after fleeing enemies etc.
I also initiated fights by daggerstorming through the enemies while my guys hadn’t had a clue what the hell I was doing (I hadn’t either, I came from behind the enemies and thought it would be a good idea) – I survived, my zerg died.
ETA: I think I started with shadowstep and daggerstorm and shadowreturn. But swapped shadowstep with blinding powder once I started to solo roam and ditched zergs for a while. I started to run with zergs again ~4 months afterwards but I was still a roamer at heart, so I never swapped the utility. Usually daggerstorm, withdraw, blinding powder is a good bet (when things get ugly) as there’s likely (hopefully) a waterfield around I can blast.
Gonna play d/d tonight actually. Not played it in months ;o (power that is)
I had some really nice fights yesterday and today.
Yesterday against a chronomancer and it was even (I just hadn’t had enough sustain to bring it to an end) and he seemed baffled to meet a D/D thief. We parted unkilled
Today vs a S/D – staff DrD. I’m really not happy about the damage in game. He surprised and killed me twice, the third time he hesitated and I won. No time to really counterplay.
Have fun though and try to use dodgebow a bit less I believe in you!
I would not really recommend babas approach of doing wvw, tbh.
Most people don’t care whether or not a thief kamikaze dives into their midst. Their boons, heals etc are recovered within seconds. If a bigger group or the whole group of you is pushing with you though this strategy works.
ETA (yeah, I know) : I have transferred a lot lately and on one server there was a staff thief who led us ~10, maybe 15, against a zerg of 25-30. We made it, although it was in front of their keep (boons), but we had to scratch him off the floor every other minute. Still it’s the only guy from that server I miss. He was cool. A bit too impatient, probably, people couldn’t really follow that fast.
There was a silent agreement between wvw roamers not to run condi, yes.
Roaming is pretty much dead nowadays, the few solo enemies I’ve met weren’t condi, except for some necros. Since balance is non existent nowadays anyway, I have no idea how things will turn out and whether or not there will be another “silent” agreement.
But to explain this I’d have to go deep into how roamers interacted in general – we might have been enemies but also were friends and thus the silent agreement.
And btw: I don’t care what build you run, I just think that your thread is a non story – no offense.
There was a silent agreement between wvw roamers not to run condi, yes.
ETA: I’ve been a noob when the ferocity patch hit. I ran mostly in zergs back then and was otherwise a rather helpless soldier’s D/P thief (wth a 200 ping). Anyway, there was a guild of around 30-40? around who even before ran condi – they were great. Best guild I had seen so far. They made condi work before the ferocity patch. After the patch all condi builds were completely OP. I couldn’t run in zergs anymore and started roaming – so I can’t really say what changed regarding zerg fights back then.
The June and HoT patches didn’t make things better; condi is still overpowered, not all condis, not every condi build but in general. Not sure about the condi cleanse other classes got in June and HoT but for thief the June Patch was a nerf. Even DrD and T (with trickster) isn’t enough to have a chance against condi builds.
So.. it’s been 2 years and the problems haven’t been adressed – I guess it’s up to the community again to silently agree that condi builds are “cheese”.
Of course I have reasons for disliking condi builds – I like seen big, red numbers when I fight. But what is the point you are trying to make Jana? My commenting was on the fact that these thieves behave like base animals towards me for beating them.
The point is that you are “outraged” that people behave like kitten although you must’ve known that this would happen. Condis are a no go for at least 2 years now and June/HoT didn’t make things better.
And since you know thief you also know that the condi clears aren’t that good.
ETA: Those who mostly play thief right now are those who don’t know the class but only heard they’re now OP, cause melee AA got buffed. You aren’t new to pvp, are you?
You’ll have far more gtfo situations on the HoT maps.
I never go only melee on those maps (or in wvw for that matter).
Even my revenant can’t handle it.
Thief condi clear is in the toilet and perhaps one of the worst out of all the classes atm. To spec full condi on a thief and only contribute by hunting the other thief can be perceived as you being an kitten .
Personally run what you like since you paid for the game yet you need to understand any verbal backlash you get for doing such a thing is deserved in most cases.
I agree with that, sorry.
Before June I never worried about condis (SA traited) – now I’m dead to condis even with SA – and don’t come me with “but you can spam all tricks you have and trait trickster” – doesn’t work and I’d like to do more than trying to clear condis in a fight.
Currently you can trait for blind on stealth, effectively making CnD a blind as well when timed correctly (not revealed).
Currently my maximum closing distance is roughly…5100? If we are dreaming of course I’d take a teleport to target built in on body shot though. Maybe instead of immobilize it could be a teleport to target and poison
I know – that’s what I did – thus I’m missing out on regen. Every other class and build has access to it – even access to multiple blinds but not a poor D/D thief.
I don’t really care about catching the ranger on the other side of the map 1200 is pretty good.
I want CnD to be unblockable and apply blind. I’d even trait for that. I don’t want to be forced to take BV as the animation is too long and I’d get into trouble with trickster = withdraw and daggerstorm – I want to keep all three of it.
I’d like something like scorpionwire for dancing dagger or a CC.
I think this would benefit all OH daggers, more than a build in teleport as like saerni said S/D already has it. P/D only has got a teleport away btw – they would benefit greatly from a “to” teleport.
ETA: But maybe a build in scorpionwire would be of their taste as well. But then again we already have that as utility.
Honestly, the devs want to cater for the casual crowd and to get in more players as time goes on. That means the combat system gets simpler and less skill based as time passes, and the people who have been here a while get fed up of it. Not advocating this as a good idea, it’s just a logical result of the way they seem to want the game to develop, sadly.
A friend of mine (who I’m sitting next to currently) said this exact thing hours ago. Here’s a nail. You hit its head.
Problem with that: These guys won’t stick. And if the next tournaments are just like the last, GW2 as a whole becomes a joke.
ETA: Oh, it already is..
ETA²: I mean if a middle aged woman (me) can pull D/D thief off – then it is kind of sad that all of you want an easier game.
The changes have made you want to quit the game sure. But at the same time I haven’t seen this many thieves running around since beta, as everyone and their dog brings the class out of mothballs and have started playing it again. So yes, you’re in a small (elitist) minority here.
Yeah, and they all die to me..
A D/D vanilla thief without regen.
“BUT I THOUGHT THIEF IS NOW OP? THEY GOT ALL BUFFS IN THE LAST PATCH!!”
ETA: So I guess that what happened was that those who always hop to the next “OP” class are now trying thief. Just that the buffs weren’t really buffs – so kind of a rude awakening, give it another 1-2 weeks and they’re gone again.
Alright, I wondered what “10 stacks of invulnerability” were
Vulnerability is best applied before a backstab – I still can’t stick around and do my AA chain so for now the stacks would be wasted.
But: no quarter or even executioner and panic strike work that well because all of us are mostly zerker anyway. Together with runes of the pack you have frequent backstabs. With hidden killer you can go theoretically bunker and still dish out big blows. Maybe that was how it was intended. Problem is that the whole game has changed.
Suggestion A would be OP – it would really be game breaking as stealth alone is pretty powerful and you can’t just dodge around in good hope. The passive blocks need to be further reduced, then BS will be fine again.
But you’re right, in comparison to no quarter Hidden Killer is weak. I have no real idea how to improve this yet, though, going to think about it.
ETA²: And yes, Option C is also OP
ETA: But to be honest, I’d like to know how anet is seeing the future of pvp/wvw – I killed a daredevil with CnD and backstab yesterday (in wvw), so we’re at pre ferocity patch damage wise again.
What would explain what? Because I don’t play wvw anymore anet isn’t fixing anything?
ANet sorta nerf’d the dragon, centaur and turtle banners… They reduced cata costs slightly, and fixed proof of heroics… and fixed exploits that people were doing in mid air… and fixed issues with glitched walls, and made the Oasis PVE event easier…
They didn’t really fix anything to the root core of WvW though. The same issues that were around in 2014 when I started playing WvW, still exist.
Yes. The problems started with the ferocity patch (April ‘14) and got worse with the stability nerf (can’t remember when ~ a bit over a year ago probably), got worse over the time due to bugs and then some worse in June last year, worse with Hot and even worse with the latest patch as it seems.
So yeah – we have new stuff with every patch – we always need to learn how to fight from farther away and how to survive skills that one shot us (5 of them layered on top of each other).
We both agree on that it will die no matter what happens to population solution that ANet comes out with. All because of the blob mechanics and because of the guild mechanics too.
I know a lot of players that stopped playing WvW and even left the game cause of the guild hall and having to need it for guild upgrades and needing to spend so much gold and time to just get to level 37 for something as simple as +5.
Yes – the guild upgrades are another factor.
I mean I go into wvw – we’re maybe 10, the other 40 – I try to do something half-heartedly and leave again as it’s no use. Server merge right now would only prolong the dying – or maybe make it even faster – I don’t want to be merged with some of my ex servers
I would say on NA, maybe… But I found on Darkhaven that people were out matched by Emery Bay and Maguuma and would just leave instead of going to the tag to play after getting wiped once. I found this to be the case on lower tier servers too. It is down right sad. You don’t see it as often on T1 and T2, but meh…
And yeah, some don’t like blob v blob fights… so they would likely leave WvW if that occurred.
Yes, because anet wanted to destroy blobs and did that with buffing blobs. So it’s really hard to win a fight with a smaller group. It still is possible with a major effort but it was easier back in the day. As long as that stays as it is people will leave and servers will become smaller. If you make skill count again, then you give smaller groups a reason to stay. That is easier said than done, I know. But I’m certain that wvw will die no matter how many servers you merge if you leave the mechanics like they are.
d) reduce the number of servers to a hand full and they play against each other. Example, T7 and T8 have about the population of 2 T2 servers put together. That would be two servers… And do the same for T4 – T6 servers as well. This would make it so that the fights are a bit more fairer and that there would likely be more coverage and people to play with all the time.
Until people start to quit again.
I’ve been on gold EU 1-2 months ago and the coverage wasn’t that much different than in bronze or silver EU. But some have night cappers, others don’t. And yes some servers are still better when it comes to zerg fights.
There might be too many servers, but I would first fix what’s making people quit wvw before merging.
that it’s easier to play D/P than every other set.
D/D condition build is the easiest to play set/build.
I’ve read this entire thread. You’re incredibly biased and outright annoying, I honestly don’t understand why anyone is arguing with you.
I’m D/D power – you’d knew that if you’d read the whole thread.
But thank you for your informative input!
I didn’t say you were d/d condition. I just said it’s the easiest spec, because you seem to think d/p is when it’s not.
True – I should’ve made clearer that I’m mainly taking about the vanilla builds.
And even though Acro was buffed D/D condi wouldn’t be as easy without DrD
ETA: After thinking some more of it: D/P still is the easiest set. D/D condi is more of a one spam one trick pony which might succeed or fail.
that it’s easier to play D/P than every other set.
D/D condition build is the easiest to play set/build.
I’ve read this entire thread. You’re incredibly biased and outright annoying, I honestly don’t understand why anyone is arguing with you.
I’m D/D power – you’d knew that if you’d read the whole thread.
But thank you for your informative input!
Wait, no stunbreak? Why signet of shadows? You would be more effective running runes of the traveler and shadowstep.
Withdraw, Blinding powder.
And no – I’m really doing fine. I’d like signet of shadow to be more effective but that’s a whole new topic.
ETA: The why: I’m a scout/solo roamer/brainless zergling. I get into every contested objective – so I’m usually the first when something is being attacked. Using steal for the trickery buffs is nice but then it’s on cooldown and I usually need it when +1-ing. Anet messed their game up a year ago, SoS was more useful before that. I’d like to take fleet shadow to get some of that back but can’t.
Anyway: I tried runes of the traveler and think they’re useless – BUT I’ve got 5 thieves with different gear and all of them are about equally good. Still I think valk gear, rest zerker is the best for various situations (my full zerker thief dies too fast in small scale/zergs, my soldier’s is not that good in small scale). And in my opinion rune of the pack is still the best for vanilla builds – and hey, I get a speed boost with that too.
Guess how many times I’ve heard that
They don’t say it anymore after they’re dead though.
I have to add this: What do you lose when D/P will be nerfed? Did you even try to get any of the points I tried and tried to explain to you? Was any of this discussion of any use to you? Or was it really that no one else talked to you and you needed some attention?
So you have to make choices and not have a be all spec…LOL ofc this is how it’s supposed to be.
Yes my options: quit this game or play D/P
5111 5111 was because of the initative – we couldn’t affort much else – I did do more than that though – depending on the situation.
I already explained why SA is important to D/D – try your ideas yourself.
But I guess you finally got my point – halfway – btw what was yours again?
ETA: btw: These are my utilities – I know that the DrD untilities are better but I do more than 1 vs 1 in wvw – and I never know in what situation I’ll be next.
Oh, I’m running smoke screen right now as we were capping a tower with only two of us and smoke screen is nice against the rifle of the lord – forgot to switch back and it has proven useful quite a lot of times.
