Guild Wars 2

Odinens.5920:

Good for you, I’m proud of you, but you still haven’t answered MY question – do you, or do you NOT want more people playing WvW?

My goodness.

Answer: No, not if you aren’t going to be a team player. In fact I’d wager most WvWers feel this way. WvW is a team sport. It requires sacrifice and cooperation to work well.

Odinens.5920:

Do I need the rewards, no, but I am NOT most people. MOST people new to WvW are going to look at this reward system and how long it takes to get anything as a new player and not even bother.

And that’s fine, that’s their choice.

And it’s your choice too.

Tengu Talons.7921:

Jayne.9251:

Deihnyx.6318:

Offair.2563:

Tengu Talons.7921:

Decayed while trying to defend a keep. Nice update 0/5 would not defend again .

Kill a player during that event grants you 10min of no decay. You seem the type of player that only chips in wvw for the rewards, not the game mode itself….

And fighting players in blob that are careful > none will die = no participation.

Stop taking it backward, Anet added rewards and only rewards, nothing else, and then nerfed some ways of playing, including legit one. What did you guys expect.

Seriously, if you can’t find a player to kill, then that’s on you, not the game and its system. I’m not one to say “get good” but at least do a couple of faceplants trying — it’s the only way to get better.

Even as a scout you don’t park yourself in a tower and wait — you get out and flip stuff; call out enemy movement; and run into people who you can kill.

It was my mistake for taking time to help build siege inside instead flipping an objective for credit. It was my mistake for not leaving when the enemy zerg was at the gates with more healers than my arrow cart could deal. So I guess a hopeless last stand to try to stall the enemies for reinforcements to arrive isn’t how the game mode is played. Its just about server stacked zergs karma training objectives. Lesson learned.

It’s your mistake for going into WvW for the rewards.

XenesisII.1540:

….you’re certainly not going to dive into that to try and get a kill to keep your meter up.

That’s exactly what you do. Then respawn and run back.

Rejoice that you took out two before you died.

Suicide an enemy treb. Keep going back until it’s destroyed.

Deihnyx.6318:

Jayne.9251:

Seriously, if you can’t find a player to kill, then that’s on you, not the game and its system. I’m not one to say “get good” but at least do a couple of faceplants trying — it’s the only way to get better.

Even as a scout you don’t park yourself in a tower and wait — you get out and flip stuff; call out enemy movement; and run into people who you can kill.

Yes, Seriously. You don’t necessarily find players to kill. I’m happy for you if you always find targets, even during off hours. Same thing if you’re facing a blob while defending your tower or whatever.
Also it has absolutely nothing to do with getting better, as demonstrated below. It’s just adding yet one more constraint to a mode to play a specific way rather than another.
Just why exactly is that a problem to give participation for confronting or just doing some damage to a blob in the first place? It doesn’t have to reset 10 minutes but at least acknowledge that you are doing something.

I didn’t say get good. I said “at least try.” Facedive into the blob and take out as many as you can before you’re overwhelmed. Respawn and run back and do it again. It’s those kinds of players that make a difference in WvW. The ones that keep on trying, despite the odds.

I also fully understand that there are certain situations where you don’t get credit.

I’m saying folks shouldn’t be in WvW for the rewards. It’s never really ever been about the rewards.

Those coming for the rewards are in it for themselves; which is the exact opposite of what you want in WvW.

Odinens.5920:

You may want to research my previous posts on this matter. All I’ve been doing for the past almost 2 months is WvW. So I HAVE been investing the time, and guess what, I’m still not even rank 180.

And you need to research mine where I give you a history of WvW and the fact that we had zero rewards for nearly two years.

Two months is nothing.

And your response didn’t answer my question.

Do you NEED the reward in order to play?

And give us back our servers in Lion’s Arch only, too, so we can rally the troops!

Some of my fondest memories were yelling out for help in LA and seeing new faces appear — who went on to become permanent fixtures.

Deihnyx.6318:

Offair.2563:

Tengu Talons.7921:

Decayed while trying to defend a keep. Nice update 0/5 would not defend again .

Kill a player during that event grants you 10min of no decay. You seem the type of player that only chips in wvw for the rewards, not the game mode itself….

And fighting players in blob that are careful > none will die = no participation.

Stop taking it backward, Anet added rewards and only rewards, nothing else, and then nerfed some ways of playing, including legit one. What did you guys expect.

Seriously, if you can’t find a player to kill, then that’s on you, not the game and its system. I’m not one to say “get good” but at least do a couple of faceplants trying — it’s the only way to get better.

Even as a scout you don’t park yourself in a tower and wait — you get out and flip stuff; call out enemy movement; and run into people who you can kill.

Oh wait ….

https://qz.com/592224/a-newspaper-thought-it-was-a-good-idea-to-install-motion-sensors-at-its-workers-desks/

Well crap.

I’m going to create an app that has a decay timer and sell it to your bosses at work.

I’m going to be rich!

Odinens.5920:

Magnuzone.8395:

It’s items ment for players that spend a lot of time in WvW. And maybe have spent hours a day for years doing mostly WvW.

Surely there can be no harm done having very hard to obtain items for those players?

For the rest there are tons of weapons and backpacks from pve raids, fractals etc etc that the WvW:ers rarely put in the time getting.

So, basically you’re saying rewards are for vets who have been playing for years and are fine, and everyone else should just get their stuff from PvE content. Sounds fair…..

/end sarcasm

Is not having the WvW shiny somehow putting you at a massive disadvantage in your gameplay to someone who has it?

No huh?

Then either invest the time, or go find something else that makes you happy. Life’s too short.

VaaCrow.3076:

I don’t think any of you should play wvw if all you care about is pips, these threads are a dime a dozen from people who do not belong in the game mode, either play the game or don’t, just quit your nonsensical whining…

Everyone belongs in WvW if they’re interested. Even most vets will enthusiastically teach anyone who sincerely wants to learn.

The difference is between those who learn how great the mode is and figure out the pips really are inconsequential; and those who only care about the reward itself as they tend not to be team players.

The only reward you need is the rage whispers from your opponent.

Offair.2563:

msalakka.4653:

All these pve tears are hilarious.

Throw in some rewards with pips and participation and suddenly whole wvw revolves around those 2! Now i feel stupid playing this game mode for years for the messy battles….

It’s kind of like living in Winnipeg. If the black flies don’t eat you alive, or the mosquitos, you have to deal with the 40C weather. Likewise in winter if you manage to turn your car over in -40C weather it’s a victory. Winnipeg natives are fiercely proud of their city, mostly for the commonalities of hardships they endure to live there, lol.

I’d rather go back to zero rewards. Was historically afraid of what rewards would do to WvW. But here we are. And I can see how some carrots can at least open eyes to possibilities. But not if over the longterm the reward is why you keep playing.

… But then I can’t get mah loot!

Well if this teaches anything, it’s that carrots and sticks still work well for player prodding.

Need something changed? Carrot!

Hrm, population balance?

This surely can’t be as bad as the golem wars debacle.

Don’t be vicious.

Strages.2950:

/m is your current map (Green/Blue/Red Bl’s and EBG individually)
/t is your whole server (all borderlands and EBG – ie. cross map chat)

Lol I came back to play after being away and was yelling everything out in /t like I always did when scouting. Someone with very dry (Brit I think) humour replied that they’d love to come help but there was a queue on my map and they were currently fighting off a hoard of very angry French men. God, I love Piken, lol.

It’s a hard habit to break! ><

Raymond Lukes.6305:

Hey Bunter,

We made a change to the way Outnumbered works that should help this feel a lot less bad. Outnumbered is now applied each scoring tick (every 5 minutes). Swapping to a map right before a tick will no longer grant an Outnumbered pip bonus. Instead, you must play on an Outnumbered map for an entire tick to earn the bonus.

See this sounds reasonable. Why all the fuss?

Is it weird that I only recognize a tiny number of names in this thread?

Swamurabi.7890:

Don’t know why I have to keep digging this out of my archives.

From a red post in the thread Whens the next WvW tournament?

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Our primary motivation for avoiding running another tournament, is that at the end of every tournament we saw a permanent dip in the number of players playing WvW. Presumably this was due to players burning themselves out during the tournament.

However, we can still run a poll to see if the majority of the community wants another 4 week tournament, even if it might be bad for the long term WvW population numbers. Though even if ‘running another tournament’ won the poll, we’d probably hold off until we get the scoring updates in.

Just curious, of all the reasons why anyone would want another WvW tournament, which one(s) are better then Tyler’s statement against having another tournament?

Answer: what motivates the OP? It’s not the health of WvW.

zinkz.7045:

Jayne.9251:

EU did not need linking to balance out the population.

EU populations were not balanced in the slightest, when FSP was stacked 2 years ago there were week nights (let alone reset) where you had queues on EB 150+ and 20-30 on every single borderland, despite the fact there would often be nothing to fight on 2 borderlands because non-stacked servers simply didn’t have the numbers to fight on all maps.

And the same thing happened the entire game, back when SFR was validating at one point 100 people a day, back when Vizunah had queues on multiple maps outside prime when the other T1 servers could barely fill one map, etc.

The populations have never been remotely balanced on EU, which is why so few over the matchups of the course of this game have ended with three servers having even remotely close scores by the end of the week.

A server/world based system where you can easily transfer and where “worlds” only apply to one small aspect of the game, whether it is standalone or linked servers is simply fundamentally flawed in regard to getting even vaguely balanced populations.

Yes but server balance is a NA thing. Sure you got steamrolled by SFR or FSP from time to time, but the beauty of EU was that matches naturally changed each week, without manual adjustments or linkings.

Linkings brought the disassociation of server identity to EU, which was difficult to straddle given identity related to language that exists, and continues to exist, in EU. That disassociation, in turn, brought the bandwagon… More than we had ever seen prior. To an almost absurd level now.

What had been a reasonably healthy WvW scene in EU was gutted with the linkings. Sever identity was key to robust gameplay in EU. And a minimal glicko variance augmented changing matchups. It made the game worth playing, even if you were steamrolled some matches.

Sylvyn.4750:

Mysteriax.6049:

hunterAS.5107:

I think Linking has helped the situation but we can take it one step further…

Remove all server links from T1 and T2 servers (6 servers no longer have links)
Add in a fifth tier (This will help to alleviate the bandwagoning individuals and queues)
Everyone from T3 on down would have 1 matched server.

^ This. As someone from a server (Gate of Madness) who would likely be placed in T5, I would be completely fine with this compromise.

This might be a workable solution for now, adding one more Tier to spread out the population a bit.

While this may work in NA, it’s not a good solution for EU.

Gate nomming….

In the olden days we often would have six guarding yaks on reset.

And separate it by EU and NA player.

The two are completely different beasts.

And that has the possibility of pleasing the greater number of players, instead of a blanket change for everyone.

Dawdler.8521:

Straegen.2938:

Unlinked servers were a disaster of their own with bottom tiers nearly void of players during huge swaths of a day. Linking is the lessor of the two evils.

Wait are you describing T1? Because that also describe single server T1 to a tee. Since FSP got unlinked, we can still be outmanned in primetime and only populate one border.

Anyway, I still dont like links either because they make Anet balance WvW like a lava lamp. Oh so you dropped to T2, we cant have that! Here have a link and be able to beat all other servers. Oh your T1 now? Nonono that wont do, you are too strong so lets remove the link.

And round and round we go.

This isnt healthy.

He’s also really only describing NA.

eldenbri.1059:

It may have already been suggested in the many pages here, but I wonder if it might help the pip acquisition pace to award pips for objective captures.

1 pip for a camp
2 pips for a tower
3 pips for a keep
4 pips for stonemist

It doesn’t seem like it would add too many pips for the people who already get a lot, and it would encourage people who are mostly pip-farming to keep taking objectives versus just killing an occasional guard or yak to maintain participation and then going back to spawn.

I’d rather have the points go to escorting yaks. Doing it as you suggested would only result in a pve champ karma train map. It would wreck WvW.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

so then the moral is to just take a bunch of defensive stats, and tag things and then escape. 100% don’t play risky and definitely always have tons of vit + tough. Ok got it. Also whether or not its feasible for them to change it is a different subject.

The issue is minor and it is annoying whether they change it matters little to me, my points do make sense however, and are valid, as I addressed every variable or argument that was brought up.

whats interesting is that it actually requires more lines of code to make it so that drops appear on the ground when you are dead rather then it always just going into your inventory, since this is a deliberately coded mechanic. It’s short sided however, given the update to auto loot in wvw, which gives you the loot from tagged enemies even if they are on the other side of the map as long as you raise up instantly.

In addition, the examples I gave were filled with thoughtful logic all of which are sound, all of which nobody has addressed other then by saying, “we disagree with you” or “get good.”

This issue affects everyone, unless you either 1 never zerg vs zerg or as I outlined above bring tons of tanky stats and play super defensively with lots of stealth + escapes. (thus penalizing in essence those who don’t play that way). Seems like a strong case to never run anything more offensive then celestial so that we can all “get good” since vit + tough is supplemental to actual skill.

Do you get loot or any reward if you die in pve?

This is why I think you’re being insincere and just arguing for attention now.

LetoII.3782:

Jayne.9251:

The linking has brought the NA bandwagon movement to EU. We really hadn’t seen it in EU prior to linking; again not to the extreme that was happening in NA. SFR was the only server, allegedly, that actively paid for guilds to transfer to its server. It’s why it remained dominant for a long time.

EU players: solo, roamers, guilded, but particularly guilded had discussions amongst each other to ensure that three max big guilds were on each server to ensure a good ratio of fights. These guilds self-organized and helped balance out the rest of the pug masses. And I’m pretty sure none of these guilds cared whether they were in 1st, 2nd or 10th spot: they just wanted to make sure they had the bodies to fight to challenge them and their friends during their leisure time.

As did NA guilds
The buying (and imbalance) was motivated by something much less prevalent in EU, players on the other side of the world. There just simply aren’t enough eastern hemisphere players to go around, and scarcity creates demand. But it’s nice to put oneself on the back occasionally, so have at,

Yes but the mass buying of guilds was a predominantly NA phenomenon; which contributed to the new Cold War era in WvW.

We weren’t seeing it in EU.

And a good chunk of those “purchased” guilds were NA timeslot; even if it did start with other hemispheres.

At that point the servers in NA were so stacked not even Imodium could have helped. And there was thread after thread about pop imbalance —- where that wasn’t happening in EU.

So they introduced linking. And it had negative impact on what had been a reasonably robust WvW scene in EU.

I was quite excited to see the guild T3/T4 jump in NA, was sad to see it not stick as folks had that tunnel vision “I must be number one” thing happen.

And I had zero to do with the guild coordination: it was just something I noticed and was impressed by with EU players. They talked to each other and made a deal for the health of their gameplay; which had a trickle down effect for everyone else, myself included.

Because at this point I don’t believe he’s being sincere.

Mags would be impressed.

I would, but it’s political. And that’s a no-no here

Swagger.1459:

Nah…

I’ll ask again since you are deflecting…

Do you have any dev statements to back up your claims about EU?

You have any ideas how to force players to equal numbers out on every server?

Why do I need a dev statement to back up what I witnessed first-hand? (I played both NA and EU).

I went back and edited my content to elaborate on some thoughts, perhaps there’s an answer in there to your second question.

LetoII.3782:

maybe, there’s quite a few Iranians
I believe Murica is correct spelling in the south, I’m a yankee

Was in a WaPo story if that helps.

NA had the issue with server stacking; prior to linking, EU did not have the issue — or at least not to the extreme that was seen in NA.

The linking has brought the NA bandwagon movement to EU. We really hadn’t seen it in EU prior to linking; again not to the extreme that was happening in NA. SFR was the only server, allegedly, that actively paid for guilds to transfer to its server. It’s why it remained dominant for a long time.

EU players: solo, roamers, guilded, but particularly guilded had discussions amongst each other to ensure that three max big guilds were on each server to ensure a good ratio of fights. These guilds self-organized and helped balance out the rest of the pug masses. And I’m pretty sure none of these guilds cared whether they were in 1st, 2nd or 10th spot: they just wanted to make sure they had the bodies to fight to challenge them and their friends during their leisure time.

What did motivate them were queue times: If they got too long on any given server, they’d move down in tiers.

It wound up creating a pleasant playing field where pugs could improve skillset by tagging along with high level guilds — and pugs would leave the guilds alone if they were working on group raids/compositions etc… Scouts could call out blob reports and the guilds would actually (good naturedly) fight with each other in map chat over who got to take on the blob first. I even witnessed one guild wait at the side to let another guild have the first shot.

EU servers period would complain about what is common in NA — zerging. And accuse other guilds of hand holding if they didn’t wait turns.

It’s just a completely different mentality. In EU it’s about the gameplay, in NA it was about the reward/first place, etc… Weekends on most EU servers were empty because folks were out doing things with family and friends. Weekdays became the game days.

EU did not need linking to balance out the population. The majority played during prime and there were small groups of devoted “daytime/nighttime” regulars.

The server balance issues were NA only. Linking was created for NA.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Your blanket statements aren’t a far cry from racism in terms of ignorance. But then I guess I should expect that from an EU player. See how unfair that is?

I think you mean bigotry.

I’m not that either.

LetoII.3782:

Jayne.9251:

JahCool.3812:

Monkey Shinezz of Dragonbrand server. Most vocal player and “most” is an understatement

No that trophy will always belong to Ajax Blue.

pfft maybe if this were neverwinter nights

Thought it was spelled ’Murica?

Also, did you see the winning cartoon from that Iranian artist?

I hate you all, I totally want a Ryzen now

Don’t mind me, I’m just going to put my credit card in a glass of water and put it in the freezer. Sniff.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Jayne.9251:

Gaile Gray.6029:

but should it be zero?

Yes actually.

Or there’s no reason to stay alive or try.

That confuses me, Jayne. I’m suggesting that by staying alive you get more. That by dying, you have some degree of (potential) loss. So there is a reason to stay live, right? If by dying you get all the goods, why try to stay alive? Are we saying the same thing, but differently?

We are saying the same thing.

Except I’m suggesting you get zero if you die, as you mentioned.

Maaaaybe the off chance to loot if you hustle back to where you died, but on a decay timer.

Blow up, link, whatever you’d please — only do it in NA. The whole new system was implemented because players refused to spread out in NA, and it completely borked EU which was fine prior.

Do all the new shinies for NA. They want it.

Gaile Gray.6029:

but should it be zero?

Yes actually.

Or there’s no reason to stay alive or try.

JahCool.3812:

Monkey Shinezz of Dragonbrand server. Most vocal player and “most” is an understatement

No that trophy will always belong to Ajax Blue.

Dawdler.8521:

WvW megaservers, its coming…

I’ll get some nails….

Jedex.4261:

The question is: “What makes it the ‘meat and potatoes’ to you?” There is nothing special about owning your Garrison vs the enemy Garrison. The only thing it does is increase/decrease the morale depending on who’s Garrison was lost or defended.

Reverse the question.

It can apply both ways.

Owning it boosts morale.

Jedex.4261:

. But also, taking it from the enemy servers makes it desirable because you know it would cost them

Re-read this.

The home BL is like your meat and potatoes. Set amount of ppt. Owning anything on other maps is the gravy.

Back to the above sentence: If taking their map would cost them, what does them taking your map cost?

You guys are making me want to go shopping lol.

What’s better i7 or ryzen?

To prevent bandwaggoning.

It is per server. You each have a cap on each map. Do a tour and look for a forest of trebs (even rams have their own unique cap count).

You should try ArchAge then Phantom. That’s what they did. I’m not sure how successful/not it was; I tried the game but it wasn’t for me, and left as they were introducing this bit.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Shera.1450:

I mean your “individual” WvW rank, and not just server ranking. Like AP, PvP indiv rank, etc.

I’d be okay with this.

Although WvW rank is essentially meaningless I don’t see the harm in having a list to show where you stand.

Oh I can see a few potential issues: target the #1 guy to make sure he’s dead over and over and rage quits so you can advance up the queue.

That’s just one off the top of my head.

This is WvW; you have to think about how it could be potentially abused before anything lol.

Artaz.3819:

Time for a Charr Car week! Just like the Golem event

Oh I’m going to hit you …

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

ArchonWing.9480:

Phantom.8130:

So….. Let me get this straight…..

You’re essentially running a PvE build, and not moving with the tag, laying there dead, and complaining about missing out on 3 spikes and blue shoulderpads?

+99

The majority of wvw rewards DO NOT come from bags but from reward tracks and now the pip rewards. 250 loot bags is still only ~12 gold.

Being too lazy to WP is a plague in both PvE and WvW. The useless carcass gets in the way of ressing people that are downed and also puts people who don’t know any better about ressing down vs defeated in danger of getting killed themselves. Therefore that behavior may be permitted, but certainly not encouraged. Rightfully so. People like that who try to justify that need to GTFO of the game, so tolerance is already beyond our responsibility.

so apparently nobody dies in wvw or zerg fights according to you, and certainly not players with offensive stats as opposed to defensive. The same offensive stats which causes this situation of bags to drop on the ground when you die, BEFORE you can access your map and way point.

So apparently the solution is to never die (not going to happen) or just run full nomads and stay on the tag…. got it.

You can’t wear glass in WvW unless you really know how to predict zerg movement. Otherwise you’re about equal to a little brother tagging along asking “where we goin’ next? Huh? Huh?” tug, tug.

Get some alternative gear for WvW and you’ll notice a huge difference. Exotics are fine.