1. WvW is unfair
2. Full Exotics are a must
3. Rangers are underwhelming in wvw.
Kind of weird to compare it to a melee weapon.
The real issue is that P/P is worse than shortbow, in almost every aspect, except single target dps. And even on single targets, I doubt there’s much difference in dps between SB auto attack+clusterbomb spam vs unload spam.
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@Jefzor.7145: Is the regeneration really worth it if it can only proc every 45 seconds? Regardless, thanks for the advice- I’m going to change my build around like the one you suggested and try it out.
It has a tendency to proc exactly when you need it.
I feel like it helps a lot in dungeons, in wvw, it still helps, it can make the difference between being able to shoot some more clusterbombs or running. You could switch it with the trait that gives you HP when you spend initiative, but that one doesn’t seem to help you when you need it most.
You could also trade it for the 3 extra initiative trait (trickery), but that’s only useful if you want to prolong your burst.
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lay down blindpowder, heartseeker through it? resulting combo finisher is stealth. add traits where you gain initiative faster through stealth and gain health through stealth and there you go. high reward build with no risk involved.
I really don’t see the problem with it, now that we can’t contest capture points with it anymore. It’s a low risk, even lower reward build.
Yes, we can permastealth by equipping a weak weapon set and doing nothing useful at all, and while people can still see where we are because of the combo field.
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The button pressing part is really simple on thieves.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t any skill to manoeuvre around and react quickly, unless you think all shooters are brainless, spam 1 button games.
It’s arguably the easiest pvp class, but in pve it takes some skill.
We have a couple of really strong support skills, mainly reviving people while stealthed in dungeons.
Does it? How do you stealth with a torch? How is that thief like?
It’s not stealth-like, but it is bandit/highwayman/robber/pirate/brigand/looter-like; all archetypes that are, quite frankly, more related to “thief” than the ninja archetype we’re currently forced into.
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Burst thief here, and it depends on the situation and what class I’m facing. I can easily catch up with my server’s zerg, so the time I lose fighting someone usually isn’t much of a problem.
I leave bunker ele’s, condition thieves and guardians alone. I give warriors and mesmers a try, and I fight the rest.
Torch sounds thief-like indeed.
I use this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmaPHdy5E+JFy2jKcn4JvCklWBaqTxVJfA
I find 10/30/0/20/10 to be a good compromise between raw damage and survivability for both wvw and pve. (10-30-0-15-15 would also work if you prefer extra initiative for more burst, instead of the regeneration trait)
20 Acrobatics really helps for surviving in dungeons (3rd dodge and regeneration at 75% Hp)
Switch out sundering strikes with mug when you go WvW.
Your build looks pretty good too, you’re sacrificing the might fury and swiftness on steal for the 3rd dodge. 25 Deadly Arts does help a lot in terms of damage, but I don’t WvW enough to justify the loss of survivability in dungeons.
I wouldn’t recommend Shadow Arts. It has some very good traits, but the first minor trait can be a pain in the kitten
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You have my same playstyle OP.
Below is the best stats setup I found so far (full exotics but green back item btw).
14k health, good armor and still great dmg. 90 crit dmg I think (240%).
All goodies in one package, no weakness, adaptable to every direct damage build.My build is 25 / 20 / 15.
I don’t like the Grandmaster from Deadly Arts, the lockdown is really overkill and somehow it feels unsatisfying to see them stuck in place and watch their inevitable end, I prefer to see them running desperately and ’seekerjump in their back.PS: I used a mix of beryl and ruby orbs, and a mix of valk/zerk jewels and armor pieces.
May I ask why you don’t have 30 points in Critical Strikes?
You need to decide whether you want to go condition or direct damage first.
Condition=wear your opponents down slowly, capable of outlasting almost anyone.
Direct damage=get in, try to kill someone quick, get out if he survives your burst.
Also, Carrion gear is more popular than Rampager, because precision doesn’t give much added value to condition builds.
Thanks for the information everyone! I guess it would depend on which Signets are used in the build, which unfortunately I don’t recall which signets were equipped (though it wasn’t the healing one because none of the signet icons were bluish colored).
That would mean all his utility skills were used up by signets, leaving no room for Shadow Refuge. Going into a dungeon without shadow refuge is just wrong, it’s a thief’s greatest group support skill.
I’m not saying kicking was the right thing to do, but they sure had the right to ask him to reconsider his utility skills.
We’re most likely going to get nerfed, like it or not.
Here’s some ideas to nerf thieves properly (I’m not suggesting they should all be implemented, they’re just some separate ideas, also, they’re based on WvW) :
-Remove damage from Mug and make it a knockdown/knockback instead.
-Put a cooldown on Cloak&Dagger
-Let Steal interrupt attacks that are in progress (like Cloack&Dagger)
-Lower the damage on heartseeker when hitting targets above 25% Hp.
-Increase revealed debuff to 5s duration.
-Add 2s revealed debuff when leaving stealth without attacking.
Fix culling, obviously.
-Increase clusterbomb initiative cost to 4, give it 50% extra projectile speed to compensate.I hope any future nerfs will be coupled with buffs in other areas, to compensate.
I hope Arenanet will be careful with nerfs, thieves are currently very strong against new players and mediocre against experienced players.What? These are a total nerf into the ground. Also this has to be based on nothing but a D/D thief. I don’t run a D/D thief my CnD doesn’t hit for more than 1.5k on crit my Mug hits for about the same a little bit more like 1.7k. My clusterbomb is lol laugh at me damage. Mug as a knockdown or knockback is redundant with bask venom and or devourer but yea sure. Mug a knockdown tied with devourer and bask venom ok.
There is no way you thought any of of your proposed nerfs through at all. Yea thats all not thought through at all. Also its based on WvW. Where 99% of these complaints come from.
If you want to offer a good suggestion against the thief how about you think umm PvE,sPvP, and WvW. Then you would at least be doing half of what a real balance team would be doing. Offering silly suggestions based on 1 game mode (the one you probably play the most is silly)
I’m not suggesting to implement them all. They’re just loose suggestions, if 1 of them would be implemented in wvw, it could help fix things. Implementing more than one of them that affect the same aspects of a thief would already be broken.
Yes they’re based on D/D thief, because that’s what I play. I’m not going to suggest nerfs for builds that I don’t know well. Yes they’re based on WvW, because once again, I don’t know spvp well enough to make suggestions on that. As for pve, I think we’re in a good place and don’t need any more nerfs/buffs.
Anet should consider letting WvW count as a seperate game mode instead of treating it like pve.
I’ve learned that D/D ele is Thief 2.0
We’re most likely going to get nerfed, like it or not.
Here’s some ideas to nerf thieves properly (I’m not suggesting they should all be implemented, they’re just some separate ideas, also, they’re based on WvW) :
-Remove damage from Mug and make it a knockdown/knockback instead.
-Put a cooldown on Cloak&Dagger
-Let Steal interrupt attacks that are in progress (like Cloack&Dagger)
-Lower the damage on heartseeker when hitting targets above 25% Hp.
-Increase revealed debuff to 5s duration.
-Add 2s revealed debuff when leaving stealth without attacking.
Fix culling, obviously.
-Increase clusterbomb initiative cost to 4, give it 50% extra projectile speed to compensate.
I hope any future nerfs will be coupled with buffs in other areas, to compensate.
I hope Arenanet will be careful with nerfs, thieves are currently very strong against new players and mediocre against experienced players.
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I just want to thank RoF and GH for keeping up the fighting spirit, even though the score was against you.
How come AG (what seems to me) suddenly became such a good WvW server? A month ago we were between two tiers, going up and down after every matchup?
KISS guild joined us.
FURY and UNTY are getting better and better at organising things.
Mumble server is getting more use.
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I’d be fine with 5 second revealed debuff when we attack from stealth. (instead of the 3seconds we currently have)
And a 2 second revealed debuff when we pop out of stealth without attacking.
But then condition thieves might need something to compensate for their loss in DPS, like a buff for pistol auto attack.
Yes, I use daggerstorm, and I don’t just spam it the moment it’s off CD. It’s only effective against zergs, and there’s no point in it unless you have your own zerg to back you up. It doesn’t do enough damage to kill anything by itself so you NEED you own zerg to do enough damage. The AoE damage (to finish off wounded players) and panic (enemies turn around, meaning they stop dealing damage) is what makes this skill so powerfull. It’s a high risk skill (gets you killed half the time) but it can turn the tide of battle.
I don’t know what exploit you’re talking about, is it some glitch that allows stealth while daggerstorming?
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Shadow refuge is nice for group healing. It’s great for reviving downed players. If you trait for Shadow Protector, it’s even better, and blinding powder will be a healing skill too. Steal will give might, fury and swiftness when traited.
If you really want support, you could look into guardian or ele.
Bow is very strong against groups. (3 hits per auto attack+clusterbomb hitting really high AoE)
You could try pistol/dagger for condition damage.
mmm watching this video makes you wonder why a lot of classes think the thief is overpowered in the damage department :/
They had a thief too, OP was just better.
thanks for the reply everyone so the moral of the story is it a waste of time to even try dealing with that class. i beginning to think i suck at the game was missing something big.
Well it depends.
If you just meet a D/D in the middle of nowhere, don’t waste your time on him.
If he’s trying to cap a supply camp, you should at least try to chase him away.
Ele’s is dam fast
here is a video where I try to catch one with my thief
http://youtu.be/akltyvWa7Vo
Sure he’s fast, but you coulda cought him easy if you zoomed your camera out (so you can actually target the ground properly) and used infiltrator’s arrow before you’re at full initiative (else you’re just wasting initiative regeneration).
Use infiltrator’s arrow right after a branch or some other stupid object pops in front of your camera.
So, to get to the second part of my question.
Keep the ruby orbs or get a set of runes
Rune of the Scholar?
Ruby orbs are fine, really.
Scholar will be worse than ruby orbs, unless you’re above 90%. If you know you’re at (almost) full health most of the time, then go for it.
Divinity if you don’t mind spending over 40G on a marginal difference (slightly less damage, but a little more defence)
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Auto attack will do in most situations. Combine it with blackpowder for blinds.
PW is situational.
I think curry.
Weird, my backstab usually only crits for 4k on D/D bunkers.
I can understand people having problems with our burst damage or stealth, but our mobility is fine, really.
“I’m stealthed, so Champion Karka won’t hurt me unless someone else comes”
“I sure hope that grub didn’t notice me being downed here”
“I HATE SCHOLAR MAGG”
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Thief is nice if you enjoy a very aggressive playstyle. It has the easiest key combinations of the 3, but you’ll need to focus more on your environment and timing.
Necro is good in a group, provides nice conditions and CC.
Ele is good as group support and aoe, but is also great at roaming. It has a less aggressive playstyle than thief.
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I’m from AG, I can say we have good morale and fighting spirit, but there’s room for improvement in coordination and numbers.
We usually don’t have any waiting queues, even during prime time. During the morning/day however, we usually outnumber the other servers.
We have a nice community going and we’re improving week after week. Please don’t join us unless you intend to stay loyal to our server.
I’ve always been impressed by how Gunnar’s Hold managed to put up a good fight, even when outnumbered. They recently lost one of their guilds. I’m sure they’d welcome you.
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So P/V/T with some knight’s and berserker’s mixed in should work?
Thief no e-sport? Go watch some thief tPvP videos. You’ll notice that there’s no such thing as bursting an ele down under a second there.
I’m happy with Air & Force. I picked air over fire, because I use daggers for single damage. I picked force over bloodlust because I really can’t be bothered with getting 25 stacks.
Just run, you won’t kill a D/D bunker ele unless he’s afk. No point wasting your time on it.
If you’re a burst build, you could have a small chance of killing him if you catch him off guard and pop thieves guild.
On the bright side: they can’t kill us either.
Explorer set is a power/precision/mf gear. Glass cannons only lose critical damage
Well, the whole point of precision is to do more damage through crit damage, so you’d still want some berserker gear mixed in to get like 50% crit damage.
Not mesmer. (unless you rely on daze more than damage, then maybe)
Scholar is only good if you’re full HP most of the time, depends on your fighting style, but probably not worth it.
Not sure about ogre runes.
Divinity is good, but ridiculously expensive.
Ruby orbs is really nice and cheap as dirt.
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It gets better when traited. It’s an instant cast, so there’s no reason not to use it anyway.
We have plenty of ways to get out of danger, so I don’t think we need 1200 range. It’d, be convenient, but not necessary.
It’s mostly for WvW, sure there are other places where it can be useful but the lack of a 1200 range weapon becomes most evident there.
And speaking of necesity then please tell me how are both long bows and rifles necessary for a warrior? Just saying.
Well, I guess a lackluster rifle with low damage and useless utility skills, but 1200 range auto attack wouldn’t be a bad thing. It’d have to be worse than P/P to be balanced, kind of like guardian’s sceptre.
Sending pet info to client are easier because pets do not have different armor or weapons or colors. Remembered a post from anet mentioning the needs to send all these details to the clients before they can be rendered the players on e monitor.
It’s a shame the client can’t just render a name with a HP bar when needed.
Wow, pets are rendered faster than their owners? That’s ridiculous.
The best way to battle them is to go to their forum section and ask for nerfs.
So you admit then that, initiative isn’t really an issue, with C&D + backstab being the bread and butter of any D/D player with half a clue?
I admit nothing without my lawyer present. I may be a thief, but I’m not confessing anything else.
1.) …
Ty for suggestion. Btw, is it true that the higher Ruby Orb, that is, Exquisite Ruby Jewel http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exquisite_Ruby_Jewel cannot be added to armor?
Is there anything higher/better than Ruby Orb stats that can be added to armor (besides runes)? Thanks
Ruby orbs are the best gems you can put in armor.
The jewels are for trinkets (amulet, ring, earring) only.Divinity runes have better all around stats in total, but less power/precision.
Scholar runes are better when you’re at full hp, but worse when you’re not.“Keep on thinking that thieves can’t be tanky and successful I’ll keep on curbstomping berserker thieves ;-D”
Tanky thieves can work (especially when condition spec’d), but on a burst build, you preferably want to kill your opponent before you run out of initiative. Keep this in mind, a 3k heartseeker costs the same amount of initiative as a 6k heartseeker.You are assuming the OP wants to be a heartseeker spamming noob. He did mention an interest in S/D…….I run S/D with soldier/knight and absolutely destroy any thief in berserker gear due to the fact they simply can’t burst me down.
I was looking at the original post and basing my advice on his almost completed berserker set. I used heartseeker as an example, because backstab itself doesn’t use any initiative and CnD would sound silly.
Depends if you want to use condition damage (bleeds) or direct damage (high hits).
For condition damage you can use P/D or D/D (with death blossom)
For direct damage, you should use D/D.
1.) …
Ty for suggestion. Btw, is it true that the higher Ruby Orb, that is, Exquisite Ruby Jewel http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Exquisite_Ruby_Jewel cannot be added to armor?
Is there anything higher/better than Ruby Orb stats that can be added to armor (besides runes)? Thanks
Ruby orbs are the best gems you can put in armor.
The jewels are for trinkets (amulet, ring, earring) only.
Divinity runes have better all around stats in total, but less power/precision.
Scholar runes are better when you’re at full hp, but worse when you’re not.
“Keep on thinking that thieves can’t be tanky and successful I’ll keep on curbstomping berserker thieves ;-D”
Tanky thieves can work (especially when condition spec’d), but on a burst build, you preferably want to kill your opponent before you run out of initiative. Keep this in mind, a 3k heartseeker costs the same amount of initiative as a 6k heartseeker.
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Would it help if the game just displayed a (targetable) name, a HP bar and the buffs/boons if bandwith/CPU needs to be saved?
You could use some valkyrie pieces for extra HP, but make sure you don’t lower your critical rate too much (aim for at least 45%)
D/D is better than S/D for wvw.
I’d suggest you start out with ruby orbs. They’re pretty good and cheap, you can change them out later, when you made up your mind (but I wouldn’t recommend eagle runes).
Combo of Soldier/Knight
Eww, on a guardian or warrior maybe, but not on a burst thief.
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A mesmer dying, next to the door of a keep that’s being overrun, so he can be rezzed and portal everyone in 5 minutes later sounds like cheating to me.