Guild Wars 2

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Kilandros.2098:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

phys.7689:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Fafnir.5124:

If you think people made it to 80 by not using exploits(things that where removed or changed latter) at all when fotm first came out you make me laugh. Fact they made it so you have to face a boss with global agony at end with update probly means you cant advance without the AR now.

that’s the diffrence I don’t think I KNOW: A Group that made it to 70 at least with using no rez orbs or 99% rez or other things they did it with an extra gear with full on Healpower a necro that survived with deathshrowed while Guardians healed up with book and ele used aoe rez and heal as well. So were able to survive global agony I know it if you laugh you laugh because you haven’t played it back than. You could avoid the global agony legit… I didn’t do it I know a Group that did it. if you want proofe go search the old threads that were made back than. The agony siginificantly changed with the january realese. But I and those ppl did it Prior.

they did alter all those methods like deathshroud, search and rescue, etc from what i vaguely remember though. So even if it was legit at the time, they stopped people from doing it.

true that but if you got it legit at that time it’s no Argument to say you never am supposed to get there because at the time they were released you were supposed to get as high as you can And still anet never ever posted what they think is the cap on fractals or what is the cap… They can do a HARDCAP wich is currently at 80, so they could have done it at 50.. not doing so is implieing that they wouldn’t care if ppl get higher.

The fact that you have to argue so hard to show that you earned those levels legitimately doesn’t bode well for the subsequent argument that you should be entitled to keep those levels.

OK let’s just delete all your Gold Karma items you have on your account just resett all things too Zero… you’d be ok with that? just you and about 200 other People reset completly to Zero your ok? If yes I see you really don’t care if noo

well see you can’t argue against it if you argue against it you only Show your entitlement to Keep those things..

I don’t get why ppl use such arguments and even think they are good.

lol

Excalibur.9748:

Kilandros.2098:

The only class that I hate seeing in Fractals is Ranger. And that’s probably because most rangers are awful and insist on going Bearbow.

what’s wrong with bearbow?

Wow, ok, where to begin… I don’t have all day, so I’ll mention the big ones:

1. The DPS is bad. This is true of pretty much all Ranger builds thanks to pets being just awful, but the DPS here is particularly bad. Players should be meleeing for superior DPS whenever possible, and Bearbows are never anywhere near melee range.

2. They provide no support whatsoever. To be fair, the only support Rangers ever really bring anyway is Healing Spring—which is strong because it offers a Water Field and mass condi removal. But Bearbows are out of range of the group (the rest of the group is in melee range) so even if Bearbow is running HS, no one else but him gets the benefit.

Basically Bearbows are the worst build of the worst class. They contribute nothing.

The only class that I hate seeing in Fractals is Ranger. And that’s probably because most rangers are awful and insist on going Bearbow.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

phys.7689:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Fafnir.5124:

If you think people made it to 80 by not using exploits(things that where removed or changed latter) at all when fotm first came out you make me laugh. Fact they made it so you have to face a boss with global agony at end with update probly means you cant advance without the AR now.

that’s the diffrence I don’t think I KNOW: A Group that made it to 70 at least with using no rez orbs or 99% rez or other things they did it with an extra gear with full on Healpower a necro that survived with deathshrowed while Guardians healed up with book and ele used aoe rez and heal as well. So were able to survive global agony I know it if you laugh you laugh because you haven’t played it back than. You could avoid the global agony legit… I didn’t do it I know a Group that did it. if you want proofe go search the old threads that were made back than. The agony siginificantly changed with the january realese. But I and those ppl did it Prior.

they did alter all those methods like deathshroud, search and rescue, etc from what i vaguely remember though. So even if it was legit at the time, they stopped people from doing it.

true that but if you got it legit at that time it’s no Argument to say you never am supposed to get there because at the time they were released you were supposed to get as high as you can And still anet never ever posted what they think is the cap on fractals or what is the cap… They can do a HARDCAP wich is currently at 80, so they could have done it at 50.. not doing so is implieing that they wouldn’t care if ppl get higher.

The fact that you have to argue so hard to show that you earned those levels legitimately doesn’t bode well for the subsequent argument that you should be entitled to keep those levels.

mage.3570:

Zerk warriors are either utter-fail or super-runners.

Checklist of good zerk warriors:
1. Understands melee boss mechanics and times dodges and skills well.
2. Uses banners (discipline, strength) because it helps the entire team improve DPS.
3. Uses other banners (defense, tactics) occasionally for eles and guardians.
4. Uses elite banner under two conditions: (a) difficult resses, (b) improving team DPS further.
5. Switches to rifle (not longbow) for ranged damage.
6. Does a good amount of weapon-swapping in general, getting in and out of combat depending on skill cool-downs.
7. May trait banners for regeneration.
8. May run with shield and fully absorb first hits/distract enemies for several seconds for pulling or gathering.

Checklist of bad zerks:

1. Runs with multiple ‘selfish’ signets. Signets are fine for doing content solo, but bad in teams.
2. Does not understand the utility of banners.
3. Does not understand how the interactions of other team members create opportunities for burst damage.

This post literally made me lol

5. Longbow is superior to Rifle in every conceivable way. Condition damage is not good for PvE, Longbow stacks might, etc. etc.

7. Uh, ok, I guess. Yes you could trait banners, but there are better builds out there that you could be using instead. Anyway with a group, regeneration isn’t hard to come by.

8. Lol again. Mace offhand is again superior to shield in every conceivable way.

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Use stealth and a sword, you can spam sword 2 to remove conditions. and shortbow to skip past blooms and enemies.

Thief Sword #2 is going to take a heavy beating by the nerf bat come the December Patch

Comparing Guardians to Warriors right now is a grievous insult to Warriors.

design.6057:

or you can just wipe and start that part again

lol no you cant

Korossive.7085:

See my post above regarding taking achivs from ppl regardless of analogies.

Your “old” achievement is being removed from the game which happens twice a month.

A “new” opportunity is being added. You haven’t achieved anything on the new and improved 30+ Fractals.

Korossive.7085:

^ with that logic I’ll take away your legendary, hand you a precusor, and tell you: Congraj – you’re now “refreshed”!

Gl to you. Don’t take our achiv away.

See my post above regarding analogies.

IceVyper.6810:

A small compensation is better than nothing and everyone would agree on that.

I don’t agree. I think nothing is better than a small compensation. The Devs shouldn’t be worrying about what compensation we’re entitled to every time they change something. They should be worrying about making the game better.

Worse yet, a “small” compensation runs the risk of insulting players by way of saying, “See, this is how little we value your work that this is all we’re giving you.”

Again, no thanks. They shouldn’t be wasting their time with this. As I said, the “integrity” of the game is more important than some players getting upset with changes. Players are always going to be upset, but you need to keep moving forward with the game if there is to be a game.

eekzie.5640:

Kilandros.2098:

Please do not insult me by effectively calling me a bad person for not “supporting[ing] [my] fellow players.” I have taken my position because I don’t want to see compromised whatever integrity this game has. If you want to have a discussion here, do so as an adult without resorting to lame emotional arguments and name calling.

The fact that ANet cannot possibly make everyone happy with a reward here is precisely why there should be no reward. We simply cannot quantify the individual effort lost. A title may be sufficient for hardcore gamers to whom the progress came easily. Yet such a reward could well add insult to injury to players who ground hard and long to access those higher levels.

So why compensate? To send a message? The only message ANet should be sending is this: “We are working to improve this game and make it fun to play over and over.”

Hand outs don’t send that message. Improving content does.

Rather some compensation to show that they care, than none. Unless it’s something absolutely terrible to make it seem like a joke (for example, 1 silver per lost level would just be a joke and actually a bad thing).

The message they would send is that they understand our concerns about them resetting progress, and that they care about removing it.

And that’s my point. No matter what, such a reward would be perceived as a joke by some (unless it was legitimately OP, but then it would be unfair to others).

No thanks. I’d rather lose my progress with dignity than be given some lousy reward because the developers felt bad. I’d rather they focused their time and energy into improving Fractals instead.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Kilandros.2098:

I take issue with your analogy because the equivalent of Fractal 30 would not be character level 30.

Right, because with everything right now it takes about 5-10 hours to get to character level 30, and given a 1.5 hour average per fractal, more like 45 hours for 30 fractal levels. Ish. Sort of.
….so it isn’t an equivalent comparison. But I think you’re using the argument in the opposite manner, but I could be wrong.

And this is why analogies are a bad idea—people start talking about the analogy instead of the original subject.

IceVyper.6810:

Kilandros.2098:

You need to realize that it’s a silly request. Even if they did give some sort of reward, half of the players would still demand a better one. A title? Prepare yourself for posts like, “I didn’t spend hundreds of hours leveling to 48 for a stupid title! Rabble rabble rabble free ascended chest rabble rabble.”

And that’s why Anet shouldn’t cave here. This is a silly knee-jerk reaction from players who are, frankly, completely overreacting here. 30 to 48 isn’t a big deal. If you run Fractals, it will happen naturally and before you know it.

The people who are really mad about the changes are the ones who are losing 50+ progress. But we shouldn’t have sympathy for them. They should have known the Rez Orbs weren’t exactly kosher, and there was a risk of that not paying off.

Getting from 30 to 48 is a big deal, especially if you do not have the gear or the people to do that with. And many cannot even play beyond 20. Just because you grinded your way beyond 50+, does not mean that you should condescend other people’s legitimate progress.

Everyone will never be happy with whatever compensation Anet gives out, if it ever happens. But it is a very reasonable request and it is important for Anet to show that they do not take peoples year worth of hard work for nothing.

And the fact that people like you do not support your fellow players is very sad for the so-called “community”.

Please do not insult me by effectively calling me a bad person for not “supporting[ing] [my] fellow players.” I have taken my position because I don’t want to see compromised whatever integrity this game has. If you want to have a discussion here, do so as an adult without resorting to lame emotional arguments and name calling.

The fact that ANet cannot possibly make everyone happy with a reward here is precisely why there should be no reward. We simply cannot quantify the individual effort lost. A title may be sufficient for hardcore gamers to whom the progress came easily. Yet such a reward could well add insult to injury to players who ground hard and long to access those higher levels.

So why compensate? To send a message? The only message ANet should be sending is this: “We are working to improve this game and make it fun to play over and over.”

Hand outs don’t send that message. Improving content does.

eekzie.5640:

Kilandros.2098:

You need to realize that it’s a silly request. Even if they did give some sort of reward, half of the players would still demand a better one. A title? Prepare yourself for posts like, “I didn’t spend hundreds of hours leveling to 48 for a stupid title! Rabble rabble rabble free ascended chest rabble rabble.”

And that’s why Anet shouldn’t cave here. This is a silly knee-jerk reaction from players who are, frankly, completely overreacting here. 30 to 48 isn’t a big deal. If you run Fractals, it will happen naturally and before you know it.

The people who are really mad about the changes are the ones who are losing 50+ progress. But we shouldn’t have sympathy for them. They should have known the Rez Orbs weren’t exactly kosher, and there was a risk of that not paying off.

Except what you don’t seem to get, is that with the recent addition of ascended weapons it actually made sense to get a lot of characters leveled up to 50.

Now, all that progress you tried to achieve will just be removed. With nothing in return.

See my post above. I think they handled the Alt situation terribly. But I wasn’t talking about the alt situation—I was talking about losing levels.

eekzie.5640:

jaimep.8037:

The question to ask yourself is “will you still be playing?” If you are what does it all matter? One can argue with Anet till their head explodes. But you will probably keep playing after the update so it won’t bother them at all. Life keeps on ticking with or without you. What moreso in a game??

So because you will still be playing means you can’t ask for improvements?

I’m not following your logic here.

To be clear, you aren’t asking for “improvements.” You’re demanding “compensation.” There is a vast chasm of a difference between the two.

Kelly.5293:

I know people are upset with account wide and the lvl 30 roll back. Self included. Lets not beat each other up but rather explain why it’s an issue.

They are taking our hard work away and haven’t even mentioned any great new rewards, reward systems or compensation. The tonic is really a joke.

Think of it this way. What if they rolled all of your characters back to level 30 and said do it again but don’t worry it’s account bound this time. I think you would be annoyed also.

And no they are making the curve to level 50 easier they said not harder

“We fixed a number of bugs and made lots of balance changes to existing fractals. Also the difficulty scaling has been tweaked overall to create a slightly less difficult curve up to 50. "

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/fractured/Fractured-Pro-Con-Suggestion-Thread/first#post3233898

I take issue with your analogy because the equivalent of Fractal 30 would not be character level 30.

But anyway, to address your point directly, we lose our hard work in MMOs all the time. Gear frequently becomes outdated and outclassed by new and improved gear. When that happens, our hard work spent acquiring the old gear is effectively lost. They do this on purpose of course: When we have nothing left to do, we stop playing. That’s just the way MMOs work.

Romo.3709:

Kilandros.2098:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I think Weth is trying to say they are surprised that so many people in the community are trying to devalue the progress other members made in fractals by accusing them falsely and trying to deny them the right to ask for compensation.

No one is devaluing anything, and that’s precisely the point of my OP. They leveled under the old system. This is a new system. The two can’t be compared. What if the new system is insanely hard starting at 30+? Then it becomes unfair if players get to keep their progress.

As for reward, the reason I ran 48s was for the daily chest reward. I don’t believe I should be given another reward simply because I’m moving down to 30—particularly when I’m gaining 30 levels on all of my alts. As I said in my OP, I feel that account-wide progress is reward enough.

That’s true, but when you were doing your 48 I was doing lower levels with my alts to get them up to 48 as well as my main getting crappy rewards compared to what you’ve been getting in 48s. Now if I’d known in advance that I’d just do 48 over and over on my main alone. But all that time invested in my alts is now wasted with account bound level…

Yours is the situation Anet should be paying attention to. I didn’t mention Alts, but I agree 100% that players who leveled alts got the short end here. I’ve said in several posts that Anet dropped the ball by not giving us sufficient notice to stop leveling alts.

If anyone should get something, it’s you guys who leveled alts. I’d support that completely.

IceVyper.6810:

Kilandros.2098:

Notice that I didn’t address the alts issue. I think Anet should have given us far more warning that Fractals were going to be made account wide to assuage the problem of people leveling alts through Fractals.

I don’t need you to “defend people like [me].” I can do that myself. This is an MMO and things change all the time. Things change and classes are broken and weapons and armor become 2nd tier and people get mad because they feel they wasted their time. This is not new to the MMO genre. If you don’t like it, don’t play. But don’t beg and plead for a hand out.

Nobody is pleading nor begging for a handout but asking for a compensation for lost progress. There is a big difference but apparently you cannot see it.

You need to realize that it’s a silly request. Even if they did give some sort of reward, half of the players would still demand a better one. A title? Prepare yourself for posts like, “I didn’t spend hundreds of hours leveling to 48 for a stupid title! Rabble rabble rabble free ascended chest rabble rabble.”

And that’s why Anet shouldn’t cave here. This is a silly knee-jerk reaction from players who are, frankly, completely overreacting here. 30 to 48 isn’t a big deal. If you run Fractals, it will happen naturally and before you know it.

The people who are really mad about the changes are the ones who are losing 50+ progress. But we shouldn’t have sympathy for them. They should have known the Rez Orbs weren’t exactly kosher, and there was a risk of that not paying off.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I think Weth is trying to say they are surprised that so many people in the community are trying to devalue the progress other members made in fractals by accusing them falsely and trying to deny them the right to ask for compensation.

No one is devaluing anything, and that’s precisely the point of my OP. They leveled under the old system. This is a new system. The two can’t be compared. What if the new system is insanely hard starting at 30+? Then it becomes unfair if players get to keep their progress.

As for reward, the reason I ran 48s was for the daily chest reward. I don’t believe I should be given another reward simply because I’m moving down to 30—particularly when I’m gaining 30 levels on all of my alts. As I said in my OP, I feel that account-wide progress is reward enough.

Wethospu.6437:

To be honest, I got really surprised by the community. I didn’t expect that so many people would try so hard to mess up with the other players.

Makes me wonder why I even bothered making gw2dungeons when people just “spit” on the face when given a chance.

Your post is unclear. What are you trying to say?

IceVyper.6810:

Kilandros.2098:

LOL no. As someone who has done thousands of Fractals (with and without PUGs) and has leveled well beyond 50, I can honestly say this is complete and utter BS.

We leveled beyond 50 because we wanted a jump start on the “new” rewards whenever they became available. We wanted some obscure sense of “prestige” that comes with flaunting a high level personal reward. End of story.

There should be no compensatory reward for people who made a conscious decision to waste their own time grinding past 50. I knew on my FIRST 50+ run using Revive Orbs that Anet didn’t intend for us to progress anymore. And you want a reward for that? Are you kidding?

We understood the risks advancing with revive orbs. The risks were: They don’t want us advancing; this could backfire. We did it anyway. Most of us thought, “Hey, one day they’ll open these up, and we’ll have the advantage.” We were betting on that being the case. Like any bet, there was a risk of loss. And we lost. But you don’t demand your time and money back after you lose a bet, nor do you demand some kinda of repayment for the lost time and money.

This is honestly the most ridiculous entitlement whine I’ve ever seen in a game. You knew Fractals were intended to cap at 50. You knew that when we devised a loophole to go beyond. Knowing that, you MUST have known there was a risk that advancing anyway wouldn’t pay off—that Anet would change plans and Fractals wouldn’t progress the way you expected. This is an MMO and things change.

We made our bets. We lost.

Just because you did it does not mean that everyone else did so for the same reasons. And if you had read the entire post you would have understood that I am simply stating 3 different reasons for people to be upset and explaining them. Personally I could care less if the ones that went beyond level 50 get a special compensation or whatever. I stopped at 50 and leveled alts instead. How is that a risk and how is having several high level characters giving you advantage over others?

I actually went out of my way to defend people like you, while everyone else is calling you exploiters and openly enjoying you being screwed over. What is BS is your attitude and you assuming that everyone has the same opinion as you.

Notice that I didn’t address the alts issue. I think Anet should have given us far more warning that Fractals were going to be made account wide to assuage the problem of people leveling alts through Fractals.

I don’t need you to “defend people like [me].” I can do that myself. This is an MMO and things change all the time. Things change and classes are broken and weapons and armor become 2nd tier and people get mad because they feel they wasted their time. This is not new to the MMO genre. If you don’t like it, don’t play. But don’t beg and plead for a hand out.

There have been endless complaints on this forum regarding time spent progressing beyond Fractal level 30. So what?

You leveled past 30 in the old system. On November 26, we’re getting a new system. No one has leveled beyond 30 under the new system. It’s really that simple.

I think that making progress account wide is more than fair compensation for players losing 18 levels (if you lost more than 19, you proceeded at your own risk knowing Anet intended you to stop at 49—Sorry, but caveat emptor).

Players need to accept the fact that Fractals are undergoing a fundamental change—a much needed fundamental change, considering they had become stagnant. And such fundamental change means that you can’t directly compare the “old” system to the “new” system; they’re completely different.

For example, it sounds like the new system will have a much steeper difficulty curve starting at 30+, so allowing players to retain those levels would really be a fierce handicap to players who did not previously level so high and must now trudge through far more difficult content to achieve an equal footing.

It wouldn’t make sense to give those players automatic access to the top of the improved content based solely on their progress through the old content. Some players are arguing it’s because they deserve a “reward” for their time. I contend that the reward was the daily chest at the end of each run completed under the old system.

You’ll be fine. Use the LFG tool and begin by looking for Fractals 1-9. You don’t have to join a group on level 1. Anything between 1-9 will suffice for your first run.

Upon joining your group, indicate that you have never done FoTM before, but that you are attentive and will listen to directions. Most groups won’t have a problem with that and will appreciate and respect you for being so forthright. In my experience, players who admit they are new to certain content tend to be better players overall and excel at most fights anyway. Players who keep quiet about being unfamiliar, on the other hand, tend to be the players groups find frustrating and unpredictable.

If the group doesn’t want to teach you the ropes, that’s fine. You’ll fine one that does. Fractals level 1-9 are (soon to be were, I guess) very easy, and are well designed as an introduction to the fights. Keep looking for groups between levels 1-9, indicate your inexperience, and have fun.

IceVyper.6810:

2) The ones that made it to 80

Some people did not stop at 50, and wanted to challenge themselves even more, search for the limit and find it at lvl 80. Up until now, the highest measure of skill in this game has been being able to solo Lupi or do fractals lvl 80. The most hardcore guilds use this as a requirement for recruitment. Sadly, what everyone who has never tried those levels focuses on is: they were not supposed to do it, they were exploiting. What they do not seem to see is that beating the agony at some final boss is the least important thing. At those levels the challenge lies in surving mobs that one shot you, with no room for error. Having to perfectly dodge every agony shot from the boss because no amount of AR can save you. Even the easiest fractal takes a lot of time and effort, so saying that being able to play lvl 80 is not an accomplishment is completely disrespectful to those players.

None of them did so for monetary rewards, they did so for personal challenge, for glory and because it is fun. Now that this is being taken away, they feel cheated. Not only because they have to level back from 30, this is easily done. But because there is no guarantee that this hard content will be accessible again. They do not want 5 gold per resetted level. What would make them happy will be a one time special skin, a title or maybe a unique mini, unobtainable in any other way. They just want something to show for their accomplishment.

LOL no. As someone who has done thousands of Fractals (with and without PUGs) and has leveled well beyond 50, I can honestly say this is complete and utter BS.

We leveled beyond 50 because we wanted a jump start on the “new” rewards whenever they became available. We wanted some obscure sense of “prestige” that comes with flaunting a high level personal reward. End of story.

There should be no compensatory reward for people who made a conscious decision to waste their own time grinding past 50. I knew on my FIRST 50+ run using Revive Orbs that Anet didn’t intend for us to progress anymore. And you want a reward for that? Are you kidding?

We understood the risks advancing with revive orbs. The risks were: They don’t want us advancing; this could backfire. We did it anyway. Most of us thought, “Hey, one day they’ll open these up, and we’ll have the advantage.” We were betting on that being the case. Like any bet, there was a risk of loss. And we lost. But you don’t demand your time and money back after you lose a bet, nor do you demand some kinda of repayment for the lost time and money.

This is honestly the most ridiculous entitlement whine I’ve ever seen in a game. You knew Fractals were intended to cap at 50. You knew that when we devised a loophole to go beyond. Knowing that, you MUST have known there was a risk that advancing anyway wouldn’t pay off—that Anet would change plans and Fractals wouldn’t progress the way you expected. This is an MMO and things change.

We made our bets. We lost.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Kilandros.2098:

1. You leveled up knowing the rewards at >50 were the same as >40.

2. You leveled up despite knowing that the Devs wanted to keep you <50.

And yet, despite all of this, you believe yourself entitled to a reward? Here, let me put this this way:

1. Why would the Devs give you additional rewards for leveling beyond 50 when there was no such reward in the first place?

2. Why would the Devs give you additional rewards for leveling beyond 50 when they didn’t intend for you to do so in the first place?

For the 100th time I leveled up to 81 when 50 wasn’t a hardcap. Using rez orb there is no Statement that 80 was the cap there or that we shoulnd’t go there by any dev I believe about 3 MONTHS later they said that they didn’t intend ppl to get that high.. I wasn’t asking for rewards I am asking why they resett the level’s I don’t see any sence in it. So please read and learn to understand before posting things that has nothing to do with my question ty

I understand what you’re trying to say. But you need to try to understand what I’m saying:

You weren’t supposed to that high, therefore you have to rightful claim to those levels. In other words, you cannot earn something that the Devs did not and do not want you to have.

I’m sorry you wasted all that time and energy using Revive Orbs to level up Fractals, but you had to have known that this was a distinct possibility. No one—NO ONE—thought that the Devs actually intended to funnel people into purchasing Revive Orbs simply to level Fractals. No one was so naive that that was the intentional design. Everyone using Orbs realized them for the loophole they were while doing them. So no, you didn’t “earn” those levels—you got them through a loophole that the Devs later closed.

But anyway, why does it even matter? The levels appear to be changing fundamentally. In other words, the previous 50 =/= the new 50.

1. You leveled up knowing the rewards at >50 were the same as >40.

2. You leveled up despite knowing that the Devs wanted to keep you <50.

And yet, despite all of this, you believe yourself entitled to a reward? Here, let me put this this way:

1. Why would the Devs give you additional rewards for leveling beyond 50 when there was no such reward in the first place?

2. Why would the Devs give you additional rewards for leveling beyond 50 when they didn’t intend for you to do so in the first place?

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Ethics.4519:

Jski.6180:

Seeing that much ppl got to 50 on an exploitation that was fixed i think its ok to drop it down i am not sure about all the way to 30 but its still needed if your going to changes things up.

Then they should remove dungeon master and all gold + drops obtained from dungeons since a lot of people exploit dungeons.

^ And that.

What about this?

Asia Skyly.7198:

It is completely contradictory:
On one hand: “I did high level fractals for the incredible challenge, even when I knew the rewards were lousy.”

On the other hand" " I demand I be rewarded for all of the “work” and “money” I spent doing something I knew quite well had lousy rewards."

What about some thinking?

You got no title for doing higher level fractals – actually, kitten , you got nothing of perceptible worthiness. Those who did the very high level fractals, like everyone here underlines, was the pure challenge and fun time with something rather difficult ( nothing else in this game compares really ).
Now, suddenly, those who advanced to, let’s say, level 31 and those who advanced to, let’s say, level 70, are placed in the new system on equal footing, i.e. level 30. How is that fair, in any ridiculously stretched understandings of the word “fair” you may have in your dictionary?
Like I said above, some of people here are thinking only in perceptible things ( notably you ), while some other in both perceptible and non-perceptible ( me and those who did very high level fractals ). The reason why people demand some compensation is because they want they equally importnant, non-perceptible experiences compensated in the perceptible manner. Simple, I think.

In other words:

“I did 50+ Fractals knowing that there was no ‘tangible’ reward, just hard content and the feeling of accomplishment that comes with completing hard content. That’s enough for a true competitor like me. But now that I’ve completed that hard content, I demand a tangible reward! Otherwise, what was the point of spending all that time and energy trying to beat hard content if there was no reward!”

Your reasoning is entirely contradictory. My guess is because it’s dishonest. My guess is you did 50+ hoping to have a head start on the new stuff once those Fractals were opened and now you’re mad you wasted your time and have nothing to show for it. You always expected a reward and the challenge was secondary. And now you’re demanding that reward.

It’s the last time I am repeating this one to you: I’ve mentioned both PERCEPTIVE AND NON-PERCEPTIVE rewards. One can compensate for the other, i.e. if the non-perceptive one gets obliterated, the perceptive one can compensate for it. The activity of grinding shows the drive for perceptive awards only, whereas the activity of high fractal running shows the combined type. It’s basic psychology, really.

I agree—it is basic psychology:

“I expected to have a head start when they introduced 50+ Fractals. I was wrong and they aren’t introducing 50+ Fractals and now my time is wasted. I want a freebie, but worry they won’t give it to me considering I was trying to get a head start on content they didn’t want us doing. If I claim I was never interested in a reward in the first place, and was only doing it for the challenge, perhaps they’ll give me a reward anyway!”

Nah. Not buying it.

Also, what you mean to say is “tangible.” You’re talking about tangible rewards (i.e., Fractal skins) vs. intangible rewards (i.e., accomplishment having completed hard content).

The fact you are not buying it does not negate the possibility of it being true. Glad you finally admitted it is a possibility.
And yes, it is called a synonym. Thanks. I’ll use it for future reference.

I don’t admit it’s a possibility. Having read all of your posts here I don’t doubt for a minute that you ran 50+ to get ahead of the game before the Fractal update came out, and now you’re upset it didn’t go your way so you’re trying to salvage the effort by insisting on something being given to you.

Basically I think you were speculating on future content. You made a bet, you lost, and that’s that. But don’t come in here and feign noble motivations to recoup some of your losses.

Edit: Level 66. Several fully upgraded backpieces. Bunch of skins I don’t use.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Atherakhia.4086:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Korossive.7085:

Agree on pvp rank comparison, heck, reset everyone to 30 too see how the community likes the game then.

^ That.

That would have a measurable and negative impact on the playerbase. There is no measurable or negative impact on players by lowering your fractal level to 30. You gained nothing and lose nothing with it changing. You already lost your time and resources getting there, sure. But you had fun doing it. It’s just like when your car is repossesed due to lack of payment. They don’t refund you what you paid because you don’t have your car anymore.

If you can tell me a single item or skill you lose by having your fractal level reduced to 30 we’ll talk.

See, Kilandros, that’s what I am talking about – precisely the type of a person who is driven by perceptible factors only.

And notice that he isn’t here demanding a reward…

Which is what I’ve been saying. If you honestly only did them for the challenge and the fun, then you don’t care about the reward.

But since you’re here insisting on a reward, I don’t buy your claim that you did them for the challenge and the fun. I think you did them to get a headstart on content, and it backfired.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Ethics.4519:

Jski.6180:

Seeing that much ppl got to 50 on an exploitation that was fixed i think its ok to drop it down i am not sure about all the way to 30 but its still needed if your going to changes things up.

Then they should remove dungeon master and all gold + drops obtained from dungeons since a lot of people exploit dungeons.

^ And that.

What about this?

Asia Skyly.7198:

It is completely contradictory:
On one hand: “I did high level fractals for the incredible challenge, even when I knew the rewards were lousy.”

On the other hand" " I demand I be rewarded for all of the “work” and “money” I spent doing something I knew quite well had lousy rewards."

What about some thinking?

You got no title for doing higher level fractals – actually, kitten , you got nothing of perceptible worthiness. Those who did the very high level fractals, like everyone here underlines, was the pure challenge and fun time with something rather difficult ( nothing else in this game compares really ).
Now, suddenly, those who advanced to, let’s say, level 31 and those who advanced to, let’s say, level 70, are placed in the new system on equal footing, i.e. level 30. How is that fair, in any ridiculously stretched understandings of the word “fair” you may have in your dictionary?
Like I said above, some of people here are thinking only in perceptible things ( notably you ), while some other in both perceptible and non-perceptible ( me and those who did very high level fractals ). The reason why people demand some compensation is because they want they equally importnant, non-perceptible experiences compensated in the perceptible manner. Simple, I think.

In other words:

“I did 50+ Fractals knowing that there was no ‘tangible’ reward, just hard content and the feeling of accomplishment that comes with completing hard content. That’s enough for a true competitor like me. But now that I’ve completed that hard content, I demand a tangible reward! Otherwise, what was the point of spending all that time and energy trying to beat hard content if there was no reward!”

Your reasoning is entirely contradictory. My guess is because it’s dishonest. My guess is you did 50+ hoping to have a head start on the new stuff once those Fractals were opened and now you’re mad you wasted your time and have nothing to show for it. You always expected a reward and the challenge was secondary. And now you’re demanding that reward.

It’s the last time I am repeating this one to you: I’ve mentioned both PERCEPTIVE AND NON-PERCEPTIVE rewards. One can compensate for the other, i.e. if the non-perceptive one gets obliterated, the perceptive one can compensate for it. The activity of grinding shows the drive for perceptive awards only, whereas the activity of high fractal running shows the combined type. It’s basic psychology, really.

I agree—it is basic psychology:

“I expected to have a head start when they introduced 50+ Fractals. I was wrong and they aren’t introducing 50+ Fractals and now my time is wasted. I want a freebie, but worry they won’t give it to me considering I was trying to get a head start on content they didn’t want us doing. If I claim I was never interested in a reward in the first place, and was only doing it for the challenge, perhaps they’ll give me a reward anyway!”

Nah. Not buying it.

Also, what you mean to say is “tangible.” You’re talking about tangible rewards (i.e., Fractal skins) vs. intangible rewards (i.e., accomplishment having completed hard content).

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

mtpelion.4562:

rfdarko.4639:

It’s deleting the progression I’ve already achieved, when they could have left it well alone.

Progression that has no value is not progression.

They are taking away your pointless number and giving you an actual progression option.

It has value since you can get fractal weapons as a pretty save drop on scale 80 .. they take this away I waited for having enough agony resistance to paly it again it had value since droprate is now increased there .. so they took away somthing… having 300 accound mf wich has no vallue isn’t Progression let’s take it away from every Player…

What you guys that aren’t affect don’t seem to realize is they take somthing away we worked for it’s same as:
- deleting all wvw Progress cause they add seasons
- deleting all pvp Progress cause ppl exploited farming skyhammer
- deleting all legendaries because they were RNG based with the precurser have no new effects and can statchange
How would ppl feel about These changes ?

On top: they might just have setted it to lvl 30 cause they realised with this big playerbase won’t loose tooo much… they would have way more flaming if they reset it to 0 but loosing those 51 lvls for me is like everyone is getting resetted to 0 where more ppl would stand up here in the Forums if it was the case.

Hi, I’d like to clarify a couple of points so that we can continue to discuss FoTM.

- they aren’t making those changes you’ve suggested. There is no point discussing them.

Thanks for your time.

Doggie.3184:

imo: Everyone above lvl 30 fractal should get a unique T-Shirt skin to put on their armor.

50+ should include a hat.

“I spent hundreds of hours and dozens of revive orbs and all I got was this lousy T-shirt”

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Blaeys.3102:

What people are “losing” is a number that no one else in the game can see. It isnt like it came with a title or people could click on you and see your fractal rank.

We arent losing potential rewards or public esteem of any kind – just a number that only the player could see. You could literally take a piece of tape, write your old fractal level on it and adhere it to your computer screen and it would mean the same thing.

On the flip side, those players (along with everyone else) are getting a lot – new fractal maps, new rewards, etc. The loss of an arbitrary number (again, that only the player can see – that is most important) seems extremely trivial (yes, my personal fractal level is well above 30 as I write this).

Who are you to determine how others should rate and value their progression? If someone got a sense of pride from their mini collection and it was deleted, I wouldn’t begrudge them their anger. You attitude is oddly presumptuous, and presumes that you know (obviously better than I) what is and isn’t an acceptable way to enjoy the game.

Old numerical Fractal level values =/= new numerical Fractal level values.

Different systems. The numbers don’t align anymore. It’s that simple.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Ethics.4519:

Jski.6180:

Seeing that much ppl got to 50 on an exploitation that was fixed i think its ok to drop it down i am not sure about all the way to 30 but its still needed if your going to changes things up.

Then they should remove dungeon master and all gold + drops obtained from dungeons since a lot of people exploit dungeons.

^ And that.

What about this?

Asia Skyly.7198:

It is completely contradictory:
On one hand: “I did high level fractals for the incredible challenge, even when I knew the rewards were lousy.”

On the other hand" " I demand I be rewarded for all of the “work” and “money” I spent doing something I knew quite well had lousy rewards."

fxtrm.8356:

mtpelion.4562:

Nothing is actually changing other than a formerly pointless number being set to the last meaningful value.

Please explain to me how 30 is last meaningful value. You can get 50 without any advanced tactics or as people who are afraid of things they don’t know call them: exploits

Who cares? Numerical values in new system =/= numerical values in old system

Asia Skyly.7198:

It is completely contradictory:
On one hand: “I did high level fractals for the incredible challenge, even when I knew the rewards were lousy.”

On the other hand" " I demand I be rewarded for all of the “work” and “money” I spent doing something I knew quite well had lousy rewards."

Exactly.

Ision.3207:

Dezarys.1372:

Why don’t 2 handed weapons have the option to apply 2 sigils on it?

Because they hit harder than one handed weapons. Basically a 2-hander already comes with a buffed up Sigil of Force on it (within it).

lol

fxtrm.8356:

VOLKON.1290:

Good job, you were definitely skilled at the old system. I acknowledge that, well done indeed. Now let’s see how you do with the new system that is replacing the old system.

Same top players will be top in the new system too, if they don’t quit because they were stolen their hard work. If you think otherwise you are just naive.

What exactly were they robbed of? Listening to some of the players here, you’d think they leveled Fractals aggressively for the sheer pleasure of overcoming the challenge. Anet has not and cannot take that away if that’s truly why they did it.

VOLKON.1290:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Jski.6180:

Seeing that much ppl got to 50 on an exploitation that was fixed i think its ok to drop it down i am not sure about all the way to 30 but its still needed if your going to changes things up.

what exploits tell me 1 I used rez orbs at maw there was no post anyhwhere that this is en exploit so get over it I’m just a skilled palyer used gamemechanics to achievs somthing you didn’t now you jalous and anet seems to be with the 3 mio that can’t achiev it isntead of the 100 that can!

Good job, you were definitely skilled at the old system. I acknowledge that, well done indeed. Now let’s see how you do with the new system that is replacing the old system.

Righteous post.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

I’m also against such a “reward” considering it’s unfair to newer players who were not around to run Fractals during the period when the Revive Orb trick was present.

What about “the newer people” who were not around various LS events and can’t get the past items ( e.g. Zephyrite helm ) now that they are gone? Should we reset the past LS content so the “status quo” is restored? What about “the newer people” who didn’t start playing the game since its premiere and couldn’t get all the past achievement points so the could have the rewards chests unlocked right now, like the others who? Should we reset all the achievement points so the “status quo” is restored?
Your logic is staggering.

It isn’t, actually. Has Anet retroactively given rewards for, say, Flame and Frost after the LS event ended? That’s essentially what you’re asking for. You’re asking for a reward that was not available in game when you completed the content. And yet you think it’s “logical” to compare to LS where the rewards are made plainly visible to those who choose to pursue them? You pursued 50+ Fractals knowing there was no special reward. Now you want one. A real comparison to LS would be for people who completed Flame and Frost and are now demanding an additional reward that was not available when they completed the content. And yes, I would be opposed to that additional reward as well.

Stop posting for a minute and really think about that. There is a difference that you’re choosing not to see.

Think for a second yourself ( I’ve seen you spam the same nonsense all over the many topics prior to their merger ) about the point that I’ve quoted of you:
“The rewards would not be fair because the newer players couldn’t have used the Revive Orb to advance to higher level fractals.”
Notice how you nowhere mentioned the things you are stating now. Now, knowing that, re-read my post again. It makes perfect sense when your “revive orb fairness” made none.
Get some fresh air, mate. Seriously.

I’m sorry for this is so difficult for you. Retroactive rewards are not the same as Living Story rewards. Particularly when you’re demanding those retroactive rewards for content Anet never wanted you to access in the first place. I think you’re being willfully blind here.

Let’s be honest here. You only progressed past 50 to get a head start on the new rewards once Anet opened up 50+. Then you could be among the first to show off in LA whatever shiny new stuff was introduced. Your gamble backfire and ended up being a waste of time. Now you’re kitten ed. Tough luck, really.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Ision.3207:

Extra rewards for having done high-level fractels before this patch?

ahahahaha

NO WAY.

And it would be totally undeserved if given.

Please Anet, no more “hand-outs” to the squeaky wheels that cry the loudest.

How ironic that the skin rewards cap at lvl 10 fractals now – precisely because of the laymen kids who cried for the skins they couldn’t get ’cos they were too lazy to do higher level fractals. Hypocrisy, gotta love it. Please, Anet, stop this madness.

I thought you didn’t care about the skins? I thought you only cared about the challenge and the accomplishment etc. etc.

Your arguments are becoming increasingly schizophrenic. Do you care about skins or not? Did you run Fractals for the challenge or not? Why do you want a reward if you ran them for the challenge? Why do you care about skins if you only ran them for the challenge?

Sounds to me like you actually care about the reward rather than simply the challenge. And it sounds to me like you probably advanced 50+ hoping to get a jump start on the new rewards you were hoping Anet would implement once 50+ was opened. Whoops. I guess that didn’t work out.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

I’m also against such a “reward” considering it’s unfair to newer players who were not around to run Fractals during the period when the Revive Orb trick was present.

What about “the newer people” who were not around various LS events and can’t get the past items ( e.g. Zephyrite helm ) now that they are gone? Should we reset the past LS content so the “status quo” is restored? What about “the newer people” who didn’t start playing the game since its premiere and couldn’t get all the past achievement points so the could have the rewards chests unlocked right now, like the others who? Should we reset all the achievement points so the “status quo” is restored?
Your logic is staggering.

It isn’t, actually. Has Anet retroactively given rewards for, say, Flame and Frost after the LS event ended? That’s essentially what you’re asking for. You’re asking for a reward that was not available in game when you completed the content. And yet you think it’s “logical” to compare to LS where the rewards are made plainly visible to those who choose to pursue them? You pursued 50+ Fractals knowing there was no special reward. Now you want one. A real comparison to LS would be for people who completed Flame and Frost and are now demanding an additional reward that was not available when they completed the content. And yes, I would be opposed to that additional reward as well.

Stop posting for a minute and really think about that. There is a difference that you’re choosing not to see.

The nerf was overkill, that’s for sure. I understand they wanted to make it seem more valuable by reducing the incoming values, but too much is too much.

McFly.2134:

Kilandros.2098:

McFly.2134:

Kilandros.2098:

Korossive.7085:

LFM 48 ping gear ping leaderboard guards only

Considering people don’t ping gear now, I rate this outcome: highly unlikely

Most leetist Fractal groups just ask for your AR level or kick undesirable classes outright. This won’t change.

As someone who has done hundreds of 48s with PUGs, the only time I’ve ever seen AR questioned is if someone is going from 100% HP -> fully dead during a boss encounter. Also, the only time I’ve ever seen class composition become an issue is when the group needs a Guardian in which case you’re getting the boot regardless of whether you’re a Ranger or a Warrior.

Maybe the groups I’ve encountered are “wannabe leetist” as I tend to PUG in the mid-late 30’s. I do lots of them as well.

Most likely wannabe elitists as you say. Ironically, 48 runs are far easier and smoother than 20 and 30 runs because people are highly experienced and really know what they’re doing.

colesy.8490:

CasualNet, do you even give a kitten about people who play harder content purely for the challenge? Nobody played 51+ for rewards because you made fractal rewards dreadful, they played it purely for the challenge because the rewards didn’t improve after 48. Why are you so happy to cater to foaming casuals who want to just press 1 and get champ bags, but people who actually do your content for the actual fun of the content (you know, the way everyone would play in an ideal world) not only get ignored, but now punished?

I’m confused.

colesy.8490:

but people who actually do your content for the actual fun of the content (you know, the way everyone would play in an ideal world) not only get ignored, but now punished?

If you played the content for the fun of it, and had fun doing it, what’s the problem? It seems like you have already received the desired reward (fun).

mtpelion.4562:

Bright.9160:

Calae.1738:

Compensation for exploiting to 48? Hopefully not.

How the hell is getting to level 48 exploiting?

For heaven’s sake, I see people throwing around the word exploit everywhere nowadays.

Please specify what you mean by ‘exploits’, since some people even seem to think that melee’ing is an exploit. Because me and most people I play with try not to exploit things when playing.

Describe how you survive the one shot Agony attacks.

lol, agony is absolutely survivable at 48s without exploiting. With 55 AR, level 48 agony is completely negligible.

McFly.2134:

Kilandros.2098:

Korossive.7085:

LFM 48 ping gear ping leaderboard guards only

Considering people don’t ping gear now, I rate this outcome: highly unlikely

Most leetist Fractal groups just ask for your AR level or kick undesirable classes outright. This won’t change.

As someone who has done hundreds of 48s with PUGs, the only time I’ve ever seen AR questioned is if someone is going from 100% HP → fully dead during a boss encounter. Also, the only time I’ve ever seen class composition become an issue is when the group needs a Guardian in which case you’re getting the boot regardless of whether you’re a Ranger or a Warrior.

Korossive.7085:

LFM 48 ping gear ping leaderboard guards only

Considering people don’t ping gear now, I rate this outcome: highly unlikely

There should be no extra rewards for 50+ progress being reset

I’m currently at 60+ and even I don’t think I’m entitled to a “reward” simply because I got in on the Revive Orb trick before Anet had a chance to patch it. I’m also against such a “reward” considering it’s unfair to newer players who were not around to run Fractals during the period when the Revive Orb trick was present.

Ethics.4519:

CC Danicia.1394:

Greetings all,

We’ve moved all the fractals change threads into one thread so the Dev Team can find all your feedback in one place. Please remember to stay on-topic and keep personal attacks against your fellow players and our staff off the thread.

Then can we get an answer?

1) Will 30+ be given compensation? Will 50+ be given extra compensation? What will it be?
2) Please explain what happens to infused backpieces. Was infusing it with 250 ectos a complete waste? If so, will those be given back?

CC Danicia.1394:

Bright.9160:

If you remember not to remove topics just because they give negative Feedback.

Kthanks.

As long as it is respectful and doesn’t include violations of the Forum Code of Conduct, it won’t be removed.

The thread didn’t violate that. There were a couple responses that could have been deleted, which happens all the time. 90% of the post was on topic and no violations.

Going out on a limb here, but my gut is telling me they won’t give “extra” (lol) compensation to people who progressed past 50 considering, you know, that they never intended people to progress past 50.